superman stongest feat ever

Avatar image for hulksmash134
#201 Posted by hulksmash134 (340 posts) - - Show Bio

@mercinwithamouth: ๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚ @outside_85 just said that the book is more like a record and that is being written as we speak. That was the original theory, I don't find ultra man being a selective reader very convincing.

And what u said about spectre was really good and made perfect sense, no one has ever said that before and it was pretty sick ๐Ÿ‘๐Ÿผ๐Ÿ‘๐Ÿผ๐Ÿ‘๐Ÿผ๐Ÿ‘๐Ÿผ. But tbh I think that by eternity what the writer meant was till the end of time, which is still finite, and hence the writer Said: eternity is heavy and not eternity is infinitely heavy. And I defroster believe superman breaking the bonds of infinity was a figure of speech as if he was literally travelling at infinity then he would've already gotten to heaven and spectre wouldn't have talked to him.

Avatar image for mercinwithamouth
#202 Edited by MercinWithAMouth (967 posts) - - Show Bio

@hulksmash134: "@outside_85 just said that the book is more like a record and that is being written as we speak. That was the original theory, I don't find ultra man being a selective reader very convincing."

Yes, and they are also wrong. What they said doesn't make sense with what happened or the context. Now you're saying this is the original theory? But that doesn't make sense whatsosever, as Ultraman read that evil wins. That wouldn't be the case if it were being written as time passed. That alone debunks what you claim. THEIR STORY could have been "written as we speak" but it still contains every book possible, which would still be infinite and doesn't work either. Ultraman read their story, whether you like it or not. Cosmic Armor Superman changed the outcome, as was it's purpose. Saying "I don't find ultra man being a selective reader very convincing" is possibly the worst argument you could have. That is arguing with the plot itself, and the circumstances. He read their story, which makes more sense than him reading anything else, and you can't argue with that. The evidence is all against you. It's stated several times to have infinite pages. Ultraman even says it's infinite. It's implied to have weight. Ultraman lifts it by himself. He is an alternate version of Superman who has been defeated by Superman multiple times. He is not stronger than Superman and Shazam combined. They never fail to lift the book. Superman never says he can't lift it by himself and he never tries.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

Here's a description (from the Vine) of Cosmic Armor Superman: "The Thought Robot is a 4-D Superman woken up in a body of pure thought. He is powered by symmetry, memories, duality, probabilities, and possibilities. A doomsday machine engineered by the Monitors to defend against the ultimate evil. Capable of adapting instantly to counter any future threat. A sentinel-suit designed for a single purpose, to protect all existence against the ultimate enemy. A plot device."

This thing (in story) reaches out to the reader.

No Caption Provided

Cosmic Armor Superman was literally a plot device, destined to stop the ultimate evil. Should read the issue, carefully. It plays heavily on story, concepts, and ideas.

And what u said about spectre was really good and made perfect sense, no one has ever said that before and it was pretty sick ๐Ÿ‘๐Ÿผ๐Ÿ‘๐Ÿผ๐Ÿ‘๐Ÿผ๐Ÿ‘๐Ÿผ. But tbh I think that by eternity what the writer meant was till the end of time, which is still finite, and hence the writer Said: eternity is heavy and not eternity is infinitely heavy. And I defroster believe superman breaking the bonds of infinity was a figure of speech as if he was literally travelling at infinity then he would've already gotten to heaven and spectre wouldn't have talked to him."

What I said about Spectre was really good and made perfect sense? Then why the hell are you still arguing with it? There are people who have said what I did about the Spectre feat, because they aren't too dumb to get it. What I said about it still stands. You can sit here and try your best to debunk these or claim otherwise by saying "Well I think this is what happened" or "I think this is what it meant" because it's more convenient for your argument, but that doesn't make you right. Eternity by definition, is infinite. It means "infinite time; duration without beginning or end; endless." It is implied to be a weight and it is heavily emphasized by the Spectre to be heavy. Silver Age Superman surpassed infinite speed. The Spectre even intervened because Superman would have gone places nobody is supposed to see. Read it yourself. It explicitly puts emphasis on him reaching insane milestones with speed before stating that he breaks the very bonds of infinity, along with a visual aid.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

You've debunked nothing and have shown more or less nothing but ignorance and persistence, relentlessly adamant about "trying" to disprove these. With that, you've tarnished any credibility you had. Take the L, concede, and move on. The feats are legit, and you're not getting anywhere.

Avatar image for hulksmash134
#203 Posted by hulksmash134 (340 posts) - - Show Bio

@mercinwithamouth: just becuz its been said a lot doesnt mean its right. and what was the cosmic armour superman comics?? if by eternity it meant infinite time, then it wouldhave said that it was infinitely heavy, not just "heavy". Anhd if superman went faster than infinity then he would have caught up to supergirl immediately, and spectrre would not have needed to intervene as he would have seen everything, and been in every time and place. yes he went insanely fast, but not infinitely fast.

Avatar image for hulksmash134
#204 Edited by hulksmash134 (340 posts) - - Show Bio

@mercinwithamouth: isn't that superman? When they're trying to lift he book, and u showed that scan talking about ultraman reading it...

Avatar image for mercinwithamouth
#205 Edited by MercinWithAMouth (967 posts) - - Show Bio

@hulksmash134: Look, I've spoon-fed you this whole time. It's not my fault if you can't understand simple concepts. Again, it's emphasized by the Spectre of all people that it's heavy. I say this because the Spectre is a being of extreme power in the DCU. Hopefully you at least understood that. He says his consciousness contains Eternity itself, and that it's heavy. He is implying there is weight to it. Eternity by definition is infinite. Eternity as a weight would be infinite. Get the hell over it. It doesn't need to say "it's infinitely heavy" for it to be just that, as the information we have to implies that it is. Blatant exposition and spoon-feeding the audience can make for worse stories. As I've said, the evidence is against you, and it doesn't make sense to ally with your side, the one that lacks support.

Superman Beyond parts 1 and 2 contain the Cosmic Armor Superman.

Superman surpassed infinite speed, as the issue heavily implies. Him not catching up to Supergirl doesn't make sense, but Silver Age was generally ridiculous. This is where "comic books, man." comes in, as it doesn't make sense in the first place, but it still happened. Moving at infinite speed doesn't mean he'd have been in every time and place, but keep telling yourself that. Again, the evidence is against you.

I simply showed statements that prove your sad arguments wrong. I talked about Ultraman, yes. I never intended on posting a scan of him. I can, but it would only be kind of redundant, much like this entire argument has been. It would only show why you're even more wrong.

Avatar image for hulksmash134
#206 Posted by hulksmash134 (340 posts) - - Show Bio

@mercinwithamouth: Spectre's powerful i know, but it needs to say infinitely heavy, eternity doesn't have just one definition, another one is: "a period of time that seems very long, especially on account of being tedious or annoying." it can also be used euphemistically to refer to death. Consciousness doesn't have a weight so it doesn't matter if eternity is heavy. And gl ww and supes just dropped spectre anyway.

ultraman said he read to the end of the infinite book, show me scans of him just reading to the end of one story, like you said:

superman surpassing infinite speed is a figure of speech, like i said so many times, if it wasn't then nothing would add up and ther would be a ton of loop holes, like him not catching up to supergirl or spectre having to intervene, or him not seeing everything (and yes if he was travelling at infinite speed would mean he would see everything and be in every time and place, heck if he travelled at 23 tretacillion x ftl he would have done that), "comic books, man" won't cut it, unfortunately.

post ultrman anyway, cos it only says he read to the end of the infinite book

P.S. ur like the best debater ever

Avatar image for mercinwithamouth
#207 Edited by MercinWithAMouth (967 posts) - - Show Bio

@hulksmash134: The fact that it is the Spectre putting emphasis on this puts even more emphasis on it. It dictates that it's extremely heavy even by his standards. Yes, it has multiple definitions, but it depends on the context. What you copy/pasted isn't applicable. That like saying "Mom, doing these chores are taking an eternity to do!" whereas the Spectre says his body contains Eternity itself. Saying "Consciousness doesn't have a weight so it doesn't matter if eternity is heavy" doesn't change anything because it does in this context. It's BLATANTLY implied to have weight here and you can't argue with that. Superman and Wonder Woman lifted his cape which pulled up his arms etc.

Ultraman read to the end of one story which was theirs, and the outcome was changed due to Cosmic Armor Superman. I've given you the scan that says the book has one story with the rest in it. The "rest in it" is an infinite number. I've already posted scans that support me. It's stated multiple times to be infinite and that it contains one story with the rest in it.

It isn't a figure of speech. The scans themselves support that it isn't. He breaks the SOL barrier, then the time barrier, and then he surpasses infinite speed. The scans strongly reinforce this. Because you're seemingly too slow to understand this, I guess I have to spoon-feed this to you as well. Flash has an infinite speed feat, because he outran instantaneous travel. He was amped, but that isn't the point. The point is that he wasn't in everywhere or everywhen at once while moving that fast. He could simply move any distance without time moving because he was going so fast. I say "comic books, man." because not catching up to Supergirl and surpassing infinite speed doesn't make sense, but it happened here. We don't even know what surpassing infinite speed would mean. This is fiction. You might as well complain about everything that's outlandish, which would essentially be all of it.

He says he read to the end of a book that even he states is infinite. He says he reads that evil wins, but that never comes true. Again, I've already posted the scan of Merryman stating it is one story with the rest in it. But because you really need help with this, I'll humor you.

No Caption Provided

No Caption Provided

He says he reads the end of the "infinite book". He says that he sees the final chapter. He even refers to their story and says what is going to happen. This doesn't debunk anything about it being infinite.

You seem like you're just in denial over all of this because you don't like it, when it's legit. It's just a matter of you getting over it I guess.

I'm the best debater ever? I'm really not sure if this is sarcasm or not, but thanks? You're not too good, if I'm being honest.

Avatar image for hulksmash134
#208 Posted by hulksmash134 (340 posts) - - Show Bio

@mercinwithamouth: U have a point about the "an eternity" thing, but spectre said that his CONSCIOUSNESS is made up of eternity and that its heavy, but consciousness doesn't have a weight anyway, so it doesn't matter if eternity is infinitely heavy, it's like saying 0 x infinity = infinity.

So the book has only one story that u can read, and the rest (infinite nunmber) can't be read?? or seen?? IF ultraman read to the end, and said he saw the final chapter then doesn't it mean the infinite book has a final chapter????

So if i read superman beyond parts 1 and 2 then this will all make sense?? Then i might as well read all of final crisis, do u have the reading order?

And yes, flash beat instantaneous travel, and he travelled 23 tretacillion x ftl to achieve that (if we use one planck instant as the interval which imaginary axis did), and yes he could've been anywhere in anytime, or everywhere in every time since he broke speed, if supes went infinitely fast then he would've also done that.

im not a debater tbh, at least im one of the worst and not the worst lmao

Avatar image for jumpstart55
#209 Posted by jumpstart55 (11025 posts) - - Show Bio
  • Yea that "infinite book" was impressive.
  • But the one where he freaking blows out a Star like a birthday cake has gotta be up there.
Avatar image for mercinwithamouth
#210 Posted by MercinWithAMouth (967 posts) - - Show Bio

"U have a point about the "an eternity" thing, but spectre said that his CONSCIOUSNESS is made up of eternity and that its heavy, but consciousness doesn't have a weight anyway, so it doesn't matter if eternity is infinitely heavy, it's like saying 0 x infinity = infinity."

This made me laugh because you keep bringing this up when the scan and context go directly against that. Your reading comprehension isn't very good. It explicitly states that the Spectre's body is made up of consciousness, and goes on to say it's a cosmic consciousness that contains eternity itself and that it's emphasized as heavy. In the real world, consciousness doesn't really have weight. But it does in this context and that is all that matters, but you apparently don't get that.


"So the book has only one story that u can read, and the rest (infinite nunmber) can't be read?? or seen?? IF ultraman read to the end, and said he saw the final chapter then doesn't it mean the infinite book has a final chapter????"

How the hell you aren't getting this, I don't know. The book contains every book possible, meaning an infinite number of stories. It is stated to have one story with the rest in it. He reads the main story (theirs) as we can clearly see in the scan. He simply reads the final chapter of that story. It still contains an infinite number of pages/stories. Someone could see/read other stories too, but they'd have to lift/touch/be affected by the book in order to do so. Ultraman simply read the only relevant story.


"So if i read superman beyond parts 1 and 2 then this will all make sense?? Then i might as well read all of final crisis, do u have the reading order?"

Yes, you should understand the context if you are able to get it. It's not spread across any other issues. The arc as whole is though, but that isn't really relevant here.


"And yes, flash beat instantaneous travel, and he travelled 23 tretacillion x ftl to achieve that (if we use one planck instant as the interval which imaginary axis did), and yes he could've been anywhere in anytime, or everywhere in every time since he broke speed, if supes went infinitely fast then he would've also done that."

Problem is, instantaneous travel would be instant and he beat that. He broke speed, but that doesn't mean here would have been everywhere in every time. You clearly don't understand this concept. If he ran in a circle at those speeds, he'd be everywhere in the circle. He wouldn't be omnipresent though. Could he be? Yes. Was he? No. Superman did do the same thing. The scan is right there. You're simply in denial.


"im not a debater tbh, at least im one of the worst and not the worst lmao"

I was trying to be nice. You're possibly the worst I've seen, mostly due to the reaching, inability to understand, denial, and unnecessary persistence due to bias. I even edited my comment because I thought it was a bit mean.

Avatar image for willy_pingtom
#211 Edited by willy_pingtom (545 posts) - - Show Bio

Beat Mandrakk

Avatar image for errorinscript
#212 Posted by Errorinscript (1216 posts) - - Show Bio

Luagh out loud all this, and you still say Batman could beat him with Kryptonite.

Avatar image for hulksmash134
#213 Posted by hulksmash134 (340 posts) - - Show Bio

@mercinwithamouth: Yeah i know i saw the edit lmao.

and flash wasn't travellin gin a circle so that's irrelevant, neither with superman. Watch The Imaginary Axis's video on How Fast is the Flash to get a better understanding of it.

Ultraman said he read to the end of it, does that mean he just thought he read to the end of it but only read the last chapter of the relevant one??

If superman had limitless strength then nothing about his character would add up and u can't simply blur that with "inconsistencies".

It said Spectre's body is made up of consciousness, which weighs nothing, and that consciousness contains eternity, it only says that eternity is heavy and not the consciousness or his body for that matter. But u have a point.

And they just dropped spectre anyway right?

Avatar image for mercinwithamouth
#214 Posted by MercinWithAMouth (967 posts) - - Show Bio

@mercinwithamouth: Yeah i know i saw the edit lmao.

and flash wasn't travellin gin a circle so that's irrelevant, neither with superman. Watch The Imaginary Axis's video on How Fast is the Flash to get a better understanding of it.

You clearly don't understand what's being said regarding this. At all.

Ultraman said he read to the end of it, does that mean he just thought he read to the end of it but only read the last chapter of the relevant one??

I've already told you he read one story. Merryman tells us there is ONE STORY, with the rest in it. He read that ONE STORY, he didn't read the rest (nor could he). It's as simple as that. It baffles me that you don't get that.

If superman had limitless strength then nothing about his character would add up and u can't simply blur that with "inconsistencies".

I'm saying he's displayed infinite strength. This is all about his strongest feats, and that is one of them. It's a feat, it happened.

It said Spectre's body is made up of consciousness, which weighs nothing, and that consciousness contains eternity, it only says that eternity is heavy and not the consciousness or his body for that matter. But u have a point.

This is just sad of you. I've specifically detailed this out for you. It is blatantly implied he has weight. It says that his body is made up of consciousness, a cosmic consciousness that contains eternity itself. It then says that eternity is heavy. Stop saying "consciousness weighs nothing though! lolol" because IT DOES in this context. That is all that matters.

And they just dropped spectre anyway right?

Yes, but that isn't the point.

I've explained everything to you and shot down your attempts to debunk. It's not my fault if you don't understand it or if you are in denial about it.

Avatar image for termiteone4ever
#215 Posted by termiteone4ever (13126 posts) - - Show Bio

This is a tough one

Avatar image for hulksmash134
#216 Posted by hulksmash134 (340 posts) - - Show Bio

@mercinwithamouth: You clearly don't understand what's being said regarding this. At all.

Regarding the going round in circle one, u c=wouldn't be able to do that, think about it. You would already travel like everywhere before u get a chance to turn.

I've already told you he read one story. Merryman tells us there is ONE STORY, with the rest in it. He read that ONE STORY, he didn't read the rest (nor could he). It's as simple as that. It baffles me that you don't get that.

Why couldn't he read all of it?

This is just sad of you. I've specifically detailed this out for you. It is blatantly implied he has weight. It says that his body is made up of consciousness, a cosmic consciousness that contains eternity itself. It then says that eternity is heavy. Stop saying "consciousness weighs nothing though! lolol" because IT DOES in this context. That is all that matters.

Eternity has a weight in this context, the only thing that is said about the consciousness is that it's cosmic.

Yes, but that isn't the point.

If they just dropped him then it just means they didn't achieve anything.

Also, doesn't it also mean Green Lantern is limitless?

Avatar image for mercinwithamouth
#217 Posted by MercinWithAMouth (967 posts) - - Show Bio

@mercinwithamouth: Regarding the going round in circle one, u c=wouldn't be able to do that, think about it. You would already travel like everywhere before u get a chance to turn.

No, you wouldn't. I've explained it to you already, you simply aren't getting it. Time would stop completely, and you could run in a circle for the duration of you moving at those speeds. Would you be omnipresent? No, you would be omnipresent when it comes to the circle, not generally. I can't make it simpler for you, I'm sorry.

Why couldn't he read all of it?

Because there are an infinite number of stories. Are you serious? It's obvious why he couldn't.

Eternity has a weight in this context, the only thing that is said about the consciousness is that it's cosmic.

Okay, I need you to pay VERY CLOSE ATTENTION and think VERY, VERY HARD. It says HIS BODY is MADE UP of consciousness. He clearly has weight as the scan shows, that means THAT CONSCIOUSNESS has weight. THAT CONSCIOUSNESS is also stated as COSMIC, meaning inconceivably vast. It goes on to state that THAT CONSCIOUSNESS contains ETERNITY and that IT'S HEAVY. Get it? Probably not.

If they just dropped him then it just means they didn't achieve anything.

That is completely FALSE. They picked him up for a time and he caused damage to the ground. They BLATANTLY accomplished something there. If I pick up 1,000 pounds for half a second and I'm human, did I accomplish something? Oh course I did. Holy shit, YOU ARE SO DENSE.

Also, doesn't it also mean Green Lantern is limitless?

It would mean that he technically has an infinite will feat, not that he is limitless.

Avatar image for cregerchamp
#218 Posted by cregerchamp (48 posts) - - Show Bio

@valtot: What is the name of the comic from which you posted that pic where Superman is heating up the Earth?

Avatar image for hulksmash134
#219 Edited by hulksmash134 (340 posts) - - Show Bio

@mercinwithamouth: No, you wouldn't. I've explained it to you already, you simply aren't getting it. Time would stop completely, and you could run in a circle for the duration of you moving at those speeds. Would you be omnipresent? No, you would be omnipresent when it comes to the circle, not generally. I can't make it simpler for you, I'm sorry.

no ur not getting it, u can't travel at an infinite speed in a circle, it just doesn't work like that. If u travelled that fast u would well surpass trans-time velocity like flash did meaning u could be anywhere in any time or everywhere in every time.

Because there are an infinite number of stories. Are you serious? It's obvious why he couldn't.

So he only read one story and thought he read the whole thing, and still got to the end...

Okay, I need you to pay VERY CLOSE ATTENTION and think VERY, VERY HARD. It says HIS BODY is MADE UP of consciousness. He clearly has weight as the scan shows, that means THAT CONSCIOUSNESS has weight. THAT CONSCIOUSNESS is also stated as COSMIC, meaning inconceivably vast. It goes on to state that THAT CONSCIOUSNESS contains ETERNITY and that IT'S HEAVY. Get it? Probably not.

Lol, u kinda explained it better here:

This is just sad of you. I've specifically detailed this out for you. It is blatantly implied he has weight. It says that his body is made up of consciousness, a cosmic consciousness that contains eternity itself. It then says that eternity is heavy. Stop saying "consciousness weighs nothing though! lolol" because IT DOES in this context. That is all that matters.

So the fact that it's cosmic implies that it has weight?

That is completely FALSE. They picked him up for a time and he caused damage to the ground. They BLATANTLY accomplished something there. If I pick up 1,000 pounds for half a second and I'm human, did I accomplish something? Oh course I did. Holy shit, YOU ARE SO DENSE.

Oh ok makes sense

It would mean that he technically has an infinite will feat, not that he is limitless.

Thats what i meant yes, but since his powers are derived from his will, his other powers should also fluctuate limitlessly which was what i was trying to get at.

And those Infinite weight feats were PIS

And saying "comic books man" is just a lame excuse to ignore my claims on debunking the feat, the fact that he didn't catch up proves that it wasn't an infinite speed, and that's clearly also PIS, but it's the Silver Age lol. Watch this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4O-5eV4LiA

Avatar image for hulksmash134
#220 Posted by hulksmash134 (340 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for mercinwithamouth
#221 Posted by MercinWithAMouth (967 posts) - - Show Bio

@hulksmash134: Why do you keep commenting on this? You've been destroyed, several times now. You just make it evident that you lack the mental capacity to understand what's being said to you, so you'll endlessly comment because you simply don't get it.

"no ur not getting it, u can't travel at an infinite speed in a circle, it just doesn't work like that. If u travelled that fast u would well surpass trans-time velocity like flash did meaning u could be anywhere in any time or everywhere in every time."

I understand completely. Everything that's being said is flying over your head, dude.

"So he only read one story and thought he read the whole thing, and still got to the end..."

This is exhausting. It's such a simple concept. The last chapter he's referring to is the end of that one story. Not the entire book. Good. Fucking. God.

So the fact that it's cosmic implies that it has weight?

How someone can be so dumb, I'll never know. How can you think that implies that it has weight? That implies that it's incredibly vast. The fact that he states it's heavy is what implies it has weight. Not to mention Superman/WW lifting him.

Thats what i meant yes, but since his powers are derived from his will, his other powers should also fluctuate limitlessly which was what i was trying to get at.

What?

And those Infinite weight feats were PIS

We've been over this. Them being PIS is irrelevant to what's being talked about. Do you see what post you're commenting on? It's a post, believe it or not, about Superman's strongest feat ever!

And saying "comic books man" is just a lame excuse to ignore my claims on debunking the feat, the fact that he didn't catch up proves that it wasn't an infinite speed, and that's clearly also PIS, but it's the Silver Age lol. Watch this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4O-5eV4LiA"

No, it actually is an argument. Nonsensical things happen in comics. That's essentially what I'm saying. That's a fact you can't argue against. Superman moving at beyond infinite speed? Happened. I've given you the context and the author intent is clear as well. You're in denial. Not sure what surpassing infinite speed technically means, but it happened. Superman lifting an infinite weight twice? Happened. It all makes no sense, nor is it consistent, but these are comic books. As for the video,I've seen it. It changes nothing.

You haven't debunked a single thing. Stop deluding yourself.



Yes, I have both. Haven't touched the G+ account in a long while though.

Avatar image for hulksmash134
#222 Posted by hulksmash134 (340 posts) - - Show Bio

@mercinwithamouth:

Why do you keep commenting on this? You've been destroyed, several times now. You just make it evident that you lack the mental capacity to understand what's being said to you, so you'll endlessly comment because you simply don't get it.

Lol, I've been in denial for quite a long time now, it's time to stop pissing u off. XD

but u still can't travel at an infinite speed in a circle

No, it actually is an argument. Nonsensical things happen in comics. That's essentially what I'm saying. That's a fact you can't argue against. Superman moving at beyond infinite speed? Happened. I've given you the context and the author intent is clear as well. You're in denial. Not sure what surpassing infinite speed technically means, but it happened. Superman lifting an infinite weight twice? Happened. It all makes no sense, nor is it consistent, but these are comic books. As for the video,I've seen it. It changes nothing.

Superman going past infinite speed is a contradiction not an inconsistency, and not just cos of what being said is illogical but the fact that the spectre stopped him before he went too far meaning he was travelling at a finite speed otherwise he would have seen everything, and the fact that he hadn't caught up to supergirl. The video says at the velocity that flash was travelling at he could anywhere in anytime, or everywhere in everytime...

Also, there's this guy on youtube saying that the Flash can't faster than 100 x the speed of light, u do believe that flash can go faster than this right?

Avatar image for mercinwithamouth
#223 Posted by MercinWithAMouth (967 posts) - - Show Bio

@hulksmash134: Yes, I believe Flash can.

A feat that contradicts what is usually shown makes it an inconsistency. I'm not arguing consistency. I'm arguing legitimacy of the feats. These things make no sense and are PIS (surpassing infinite speed, lifting infinite weights). But what happened happened. These were brought up because of what the OP was asking for.

The Spectre is insanely powerful, vastly more than SA Superman.

Avatar image for hulksmash134
#224 Posted by hulksmash134 (340 posts) - - Show Bio

@mercinwithamouth: Ok that's cool, u've read COIE right, apparently according to this guy he says he can't go 100x faster than light, is it ok if I send u the videos where we debated? He also made a video on debunking the Flash's speed cos he doesn't believe Flash can go 1000 times ftl : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsfxKijDlnc

A feat that contradicts what is usually shown makes it an inconsistency. I'm not arguing consistency. I'm arguing legitimacy of the feats. These things make no sense and are PIS (surpassing infinite speed, lifting infinite weights). But what happened happened. These were brought up because of what the OP was asking for.

Yeah ur right they are legit, I still think that if Superman really went at infinite speed he would've caught up to superman and seen everything before Spectre could stop him. The only problem I have with the infinite book feat being PIS is that PIS is plot induced stupidity, meaning it would have to be solely to do with the plot right? Can u explain to me how it can be PIS if it has authorial intent?

The Spectre is insanely powerful, vastly more than SA Superman.

Yeah but if Superman was travelling at infinite speeds he would've seen everything, yeah I know he's very powerful.

Avatar image for hulksmash134
#225 Edited by hulksmash134 (340 posts) - - Show Bio

@mercinwithamouth: His whole argument is based on the fact that in Final Crisis flash said "At lightspeed time stops" therefore he comes to the conclusion that after lightspeed v=d/t is invalid, therefore any MFTL feat I throw at him he doesn't accept it as it is calculated using v=d/t (pretty stupid I know). He also goes to the nuke feat where Wally West evacuates 500,000 people in 10 picoseconds and the writer says it was under lightspeed (which is clearly a mistake), and he says this was intentional because v=d/t is used.

Avatar image for hulksmash134
#226 Posted by hulksmash134 (340 posts) - - Show Bio

@mercinwithamouth: Also I've finally bought the whole of Final Crisis and am looking forward to reading it, it was nice debating with u :)

Avatar image for mercinwithamouth
#227 Posted by MercinWithAMouth (967 posts) - - Show Bio

@hulksmash134: The feats are legitimate, they're just PIS. You've taken several Ls and this has gotten too old for me to care anymore. Give up already.

Avatar image for hulksmash134
#228 Posted by hulksmash134 (340 posts) - - Show Bio

@mercinwithamouth: Dude I agree with u, u were right this whole time, I was just winding u up. Look, my question is to you, to explain how Superman lifting the book of infinite pages is PIS if it had authorial intent, because I don't get that. I agree that all these feats are legit.

Avatar image for mercinwithamouth
#229 Posted by MercinWithAMouth (967 posts) - - Show Bio

@hulksmash134: The author can intend for Superman to lift that much weight, but it can still be PIS because we know that's ridiculous.

Avatar image for hulksmash134
#230 Posted by hulksmash134 (340 posts) - - Show Bio

@mercinwithamouth: So it's just Stupid but not Plot Induced? Isn't that the main thing of PIS?

Avatar image for kal-el52
#231 Posted by Kal-el52 (112 posts) - - Show Bio

@hulksmash134: It said it had infinite pages not Infinite chapters

Avatar image for mercinwithamouth
#232 Posted by MercinWithAMouth (967 posts) - - Show Bio

@hulksmash134: It is stupid because he can't do that, as it makes no sense. Him doing this is plot induced.

Avatar image for hulksmash134
#233 Posted by hulksmash134 (340 posts) - - Show Bio

@mercinwithamouth: But Grant Morrison didn't put it there to enhance the plot, he put it there to prove a point, he wanted to Superman to be that strong. And same can be said for Superman lifting Eternity and surpassing infinite speed?

Avatar image for hulksmash134
#234 Posted by hulksmash134 (340 posts) - - Show Bio

@mercinwithamouth: Ok I've finally read Superman Beyond, everything you said about it makes sense.

Avatar image for hulksmash134
#235 Posted by hulksmash134 (340 posts) - - Show Bio

@mercinwithamouth: But PIS isn't really something that can be applied when authorial intent directly claims the character was written to be stronger than anyone else. Especially when multiple writers have claimed the same thing. PIS is more applicable in a situation when a character has a well-established attack that can win a fight but he never uses it for some unknown reason. Or when a writer gives a character a win just because he needed to win for the story to progress a certain way. If the character does something and the author says it was his intention to portray an unbeatable character, that's not PIS. That's just the author writing a thing.

Avatar image for knight101
#236 Edited by Knight101 (440 posts) - - Show Bio

@hulksmash134: There is more than one way to describe what P.I.S. means. To me, it's something a character does that defies logic or performing a feat that should be beyond their capability. It's also something a character does but isn't consistent with the rest of their feats. So, Superman's feats in Superman Beyond (legit or not) are P.I.S. because they aren't consistent with the rest of his strength feats. Superman lifts a book with infinite pages but then struggles to lift an aircraft carrier? That's inconsistent and thus, his Superman Beyond feats are P.I.S. because they aren't consistent with most of his other feats Superman accomplished.

Another example of this is when Scott Lobdell had Superman move mass equal to the Earth in a 5 day stretch and hardly broke a sweat. Then an issue or two later he struggles to lift an aircraft carrier. That is a perfect example of P.I.S. The feat may be legit, but it's still P.I.S.

Avatar image for hulksmash134
#237 Posted by hulksmash134 (340 posts) - - Show Bio

@knight101: PIS has to be Plot Induced, not just something that doesn't make sense, inconsistency works for other characters but not for Superman as his powers are never consistent, they come from the Sun. So if he's low on solar energy, he'll be weak, struggling to lift an aircraft carrier for example, and if he's high on solar energy then he'll be strong.

Avatar image for kal-el52
#238 Posted by Kal-el52 (112 posts) - - Show Bio

@hulksmash134: I don't think you understand this but the book is stated to contain all of existence

Avatar image for hulksmash134
#239 Posted by hulksmash134 (340 posts) - - Show Bio

@kal-el52: No I understand, the book is infinite, I've changed my views.

Avatar image for kal-el52
#240 Posted by Kal-el52 (112 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for gmo_baby
#242 Edited by Gmo_Baby (4 posts) - - Show Bio

@hulksmash134: don't concede, fam. They have no idea what they're talking about. You should read some philosophy as this entire argument could have been ended a long time ago. A book containing every single book possible is a FINITE NUMBER. Any physical object could NEVER be INFINITE. That's assuming the DC universe obeys our current laws of quantum mechanics and thermodynamics. Think About This Logically. Assuming every single race or being in DC wrote books and it was contained in that book, every book POSSIBLE! Now let's make a scenario, all of them perish(as they all will eventually; Quantum Mechanics/Thermodynamics). There is now no one to write books. Now I Want All You DC Fans To Think, Who Is Writing These Books? Now, if the universe will never cease to exist in the DC universe then this entire thing would be disproven. But currently if it is ever possible for that DC universe to cease to exist, time would not be infinite in that timeline as space would not exist for it to take place (Not infinite).

Avatar image for mercinwithamouth
#243 Edited by MercinWithAMouth (967 posts) - - Show Bio

@gmo_baby: Except, you're wrong. @cruelestashley already debunked his argument in stating that via numbers alone it is infinite.

"any physical object could never be infinite" You know we're talking about comicbooks, right?

Your scenario is honestly horrible. DC is comprised of an infinite number of universes. In this context, "possible" is not limited to "every single race or being in DC" (single universe) writing a book.

Avatar image for gmo_baby
#244 Edited by Gmo_Baby (4 posts) - - Show Bio

@mercinwithamouth: Honestly, I dont know one comic book reader who still says Superman can lift infinity. No one believes that except DC Supernan fanboys at this point. And I wouldnt listen to anything you say because since the beginning of the debate you have insulted your opponent signifying a loss. Also the book says every book in the universe not multiverses. Please learn to debate and erase your HUGE biases and predispositions. You keep trying to demean your opponent by calling them ignorant and dumb but honestly that makes you look dumb.

Avatar image for mercinwithamouth
#245 Edited by MercinWithAMouth (967 posts) - - Show Bio

@gmo_baby said:

@mercinwithamouth: Honestly, I dont know one comic book reader who still says Superman can lift infinity. No one believes that except DC Supernan fanboys at this point. And I wouldnt listen to anything you say because since the beginning of the debate you have insulted your opponent signifying a loss. Also the book says every book in the universe not multiverses. Please learn to debate and erase your HUGE biases and predispositions. You keep trying to demean your opponent by calling them ignorant and dumb but honestly that makes you look dumb.

I don't know anyone who says so either. I know I don't believe that, as I believe I've stated it to be PIS and that it shouldn't used in something like debate. It is something he's done before though, and can be referenced to as being such. I'm was not aware that this was a formal debate, otherwise you'd see me behave differently. I mock my opposition in discussions like this when I know they're ignorant or acting dumb. The user was shown multiple times to be wrong and they even conceded. Personally, I hate it when people blatantly flaunt ignorance on the subject but act as though they're enlightened. You for instance, say that the book says "every book in the universe" when it does not. This is something you're pulling from your ass in an attempt to better your attempt at an argument. I have the issues, and it is stated to contain "an infinite number of pages" and "every book possible". You whining at me about bias is comically ironic. I've supported what I've said and I don't take the feat seriously in regards to recognition. Claiming Superman actually possesses infinite strength is ridiculous. All I've argued for is the validity of the feat, and the context is there for it.

P.S. I hate hypocrites.

Avatar image for hulksmash134
#246 Posted by hulksmash134 (340 posts) - - Show Bio

@kal-el52: I've actually read the comic in context now so it makes sense, rather than just reading scans.

Avatar image for hulksmash134
#247 Edited by hulksmash134 (340 posts) - - Show Bio

@kal-el52: But a question about the Spectre feat, I know it's infinite but the writer J. M. DeMatteis said that no version of Superman he's written has limitless power and explained why a story like that would be boring in a twitter thread: https://twitter.com/JMDeMatteis/status/715568501461807104. What do you think of that? I mean he still has the infinite book which is definitely infinite since the writer Grant Morisson specifically put that in there for that reason.

Avatar image for hulksmash134
#248 Posted by hulksmash134 (340 posts) - - Show Bio

@mercinwithamouth: But a question about the Spectre feat, I know it's infinite but the writer J. M. DeMatteis said that no version of Superman he's written has limitless power and explained why a story like that would be boring in a twitter thread: https://twitter.com/JMDeMatteis/status/715568501461807104. What do you think of that? I mean he still has the infinite book which is definitely infinite since the writer Grant Morisson specifically put that in there for that reason.

Also my theory about Superman moving at infinite speed is that he entered the fourth dimension which is why he hadn't caught up to Supergirl yet. Silver Age Superman is OP.

Avatar image for mercinwithamouth
#249 Edited by MercinWithAMouth (967 posts) - - Show Bio

@hulksmash134: Post-Crisis Superman isn't literally limitless, nor does he have legitimate feats that make him such. That is because they are PIS, as it makes no sense and he's not the kind of character who commonly possesses such power. The Spectre feat is still legitimate given the context in it, regardless of the writer backpedaling. In regards to these feats, we're saying that ultimately they happened and are canon. But in the context of an argument, they shouldn't be used.

Avatar image for hulksmash134
#250 Posted by hulksmash134 (340 posts) - - Show Bio

@mercinwithamouth: Sorry but I asked the writer myself and he still stood by his statement, this is what he said: "If I recall, that story took place on a.different plane of consciousness with different rules." It was never meant to be an infinite feat and the writer has confirmed it's not infinite. The only legitimate infinite feat is the one with the Infinite Book.

No Caption Provided