Superman REBIRTH Line Discussion

What did you think? Are the creative teams cool? Which title you find most exciting? Has REBIRTH won you over or not?

Sad that their wasn't a Lex book

My thoughts:

• Superman will probably be about Pre-52 Superman. Since Gleason's art shows Supes ripping his black suit off.
• Lex as a co-star in Action Comics is dope. Quite an original storyline. Action Comics looks quite strong, although I can't stand Kirkman's art. I wonder if this Superman is the New 52 one. Jurgens writing about new Supes and Tomasi about old Supes is quite strange. Could New 52 Superman die during rebirth?
• Superwoman has a very good creative team.
• Super Sons creative team wasn't revealed.
• Super-Man, has a fantastic concept. Touching on Superman's global idea and adding diversity to the line.

At least he will co-star in AC.

@squalleon: I hope he goes full Randian Hero.

@squalleon: I missed it, Who is Superwoman?

@squalleon: I was actually hoping Val-ZOD gets his own super book with power girl but new superman sounds cool.

No one knows. Some bets are on Lois Lane (The new 52 one) since she has donned the title before.

@squalleon: Oh ok, thanks.

@squalleon: I think Jurgens said his Action Comics run is continuing his story from Lois and Clark so classic Clark will be showing up. I didn't really understand what Jurgens was implying as apparently "The series will have a separate Clark Kent and a separate Superman, "And it's not the way you think," Jurgens said." So I'm still unsure whether it will be new Clark and old Clark or old Clark as Superman and an entirely new Clark Kent. Not my preferred status quo for Superman as I would have happily accepted a retcon to get things back to normal but it's better than the alternative.

I like the sound of the Superman comics being more fun and light hearted, that's a much better tone than they've been previously. Will be getting Action Comics as it has my preferred writer on it, will be staying the hell away from Tomasi's Superman. Orlando's Supergirl sounds interesting, Midnighter proves he's a talented writer but the return of Cyborg Superman Zor-El was a divisive move, not sure it'll pan out well. Lex in Superman power armour is odd, got no idea about that. Fine with Yang doing his own thing, maybe he can have more freedom to write the way he wants to. More intrigued about Super Sons though myself, will look out for any news on the creative team.

@squalleon: When they were talking about Action comics Jurgens said that is the story of Clark, Lois and Jon (that we have seen in Lois and Clark) returning to Metropolis. And He is going to fight Luthor because Luthor is proclaiming himself as Superman and then things got confusing.

In what cover does Gleason show Superman tearing apart the black suit? because I haven't been to able to see that image.

Oh and calling it now, HeavenlyDarkDragon is going to be done with Superman and possibly DC Comics once he sees the news, this is definitely not for him :P

I think he meant that the old Superman isn't "Clark Kent" now. But I was confused too. Its quite tricky. I am ok with the lack of SID, since it happened, lets put it to good use, maybe Truth will give us something good for a change. I trust the creative teams. Yes even Tomasi now that he is doing his own thing :P

I like the light-hearted tone too. And I felt bad for Orlando when the audience "booo" him when he revealed Cy-Supes is Zor-El :P

The art slideshow in the end of the livestream.

@squalleon: Now I saw it. Well It's confirmed that Pre new 52 Superman will be central to the plot of Action comics (since he will fight Lex over who is Superman) and Now we have art of him in the Superman book, so maybe New 52 Superman dies at the end of Super League.

I thought of something like that. Either SL or the Rebirth special since Johns said there will be a shocking death.

Ah that's right he did say that. It's kinda sad that they had to kill him off, I imagine that this will create some friction with the Justice League, Having this New Superman who knows other version of the team.

I would rather they keep new 52 superman alive and not give lois lane any powers

I don't really know much about Jurgens and his superman but I'm cautiously optimistic. Can anyone recommend me any Jurgens Superman stories?

I don't really feel they gave us enough information for me to form an opinion of certain things, but they are of course doing storylines the next couple months that will lead into this and then out from it, and I understand that it could hurt sales to say "Here's everything that will happen in the last six months", because then people will say "I guess I don't need to buy the books to find out, then.". ;)

Okay, so:

- It looks like "The New Super-Man" is going to be a title that replaces the rumored "The Super-Man"- or maybe they just referred to it as new at the event because it's, well, new, and "New" isn't really part of the title. It's hard to say where that'll go because there is the potential for it to be really good or really bad. One thing I will say is that I like the concept they chose, a Chinese version of Superman defending Shanghai, better than Lex Luthor as Superman. The latter to me only works as storyline (More on that later), whereas the former, if it's done really well, could be a book that I'd be interested in. It moves me from the "No way I'm buying this" to "I'm strongly considering it". Also, it's not like they are replacing the traditional Superman with this, so I don't feel that sort of tension at like if it does well it'll replace my favorite character- it's just another version of the character to go along with the ones we know. This one will get his powers when he turns 17, and is Asian, so it's an open question as to whether or not he's from Krypton or not.

- Action Comics is going to be the pre-Flashpoint Superman, without a beard and without the red trunks, but otherwise adopting his old look and costume (Hopefully the new52 Superman survives somehow- or at least has his memories merged in). He returns to a Metropolis where Lex Luthor has declared himself Superman and been adopted by the city as their defender, but, of course, the real Superman is skeptical. I think that's workable as a storyline, but eventually the real Superman has to prevail, to me. I really have no interest in a Lex Luthor Superman book long-term. I didn't mind him joining the Justice League temporarily to battle Darkseid, and I don't mind his transformation here- as long as they eventually move on and he's revealed to be evil in the end and doesn't take over the book.

They say this Superman and the Clark Kent in Metropolis are two different people- and it's not what we think. Since I assume "what we think" is that Clark Kent is the new52 who is perhaps taking time off, I guess it isn't? I don't know what to think about that one. I hope they don't drag it out as a mystery for too long, though. Because if Superman doesn't know who think guy claiming to be Clark Kent is, and they are in the same city, it'd be awfully contrived if he didn't pretty quickly fly in, grab him by the lapels, take him to the top of a building and say "Who the hell are you?". :) If the two characters know and we don't, that's one of those "hide the ball" things I don't like over the long term- that's a contrivance to me, too, because we're supposed to in a sense basically be seeing this from the perspective of at least one of the characters or a "God's eye view". So hopefully the mystery is more of a "You'll see it get set up and explained in the last few new52 books or in the first Rebirth book or whatever, as it happens, or before it happens" versus "Long Term Mystery". I mean, maybe neither character knows, which would be slightly be palatable than one knowing and it staying a secret, but just tell us what is going on, please. ;)

One thought is maybe they somehow split Superman and Clark Kent so Superman can be Superman and Clark Kent can be just a regular guy, which I wouldn't want to see long-term, because I think being both is an intrinsic part of the character. They could do it for a while as a storyline, but in the long run.... Plus, how do you do a Clark Kent comic if he's not a superhero and just a reporter?

I plan to subscribe and see what happens, because this is a core title for me.

- The book with the "Superman" title really wasn't described at all. They mentioned they'd be doing it, they announced the creative team, and that was about it. We don't know if this is the Action Comics Superman, the new52 Superman, or whatever. Hard to talk much about it with no details.

It *could* be that Action Comics is actually pre-Flashpoint returning to the Metropolis of *his* universe and this new52 Superman in the new52 universe. That'd work fine for me. The involvement of Luthor in the way he's involved in Action Comics' preview makes me think of the new52 Luthor in Justice League, but I suppose it's possible that the pre-Flashpoint Luthor had a similar transformation, especially if they somehow say that the pre-Flashpoint universe lived and that the Metropolis on Telos was just an illusion (Which could explain two Clark Kents- maybe the Lois and Clark/new Action Comics Superman is just a copy, only with the rest of that Telos/Convergence Metropolis, and the original Clark stayed with the pre-Flashpoint Metropolis on the pre-Flashpoint earth, but retired from being Superman), or that the Metropolis on Telos was returned to it's place, and that Superman has been missing for several years instead of just over part of the Truth arc. One could see that Luthor declaring himself the city's Superhero, I guess, although it's a bit weird that he'd take his nemesis' name and family seal.

If it's either version of Clark Kent as Superman, I'll probably subscribe.

- Supergirl had a big spoiler about who her father is. Honestly, I'm just not buying Supergirl. I wouldn't say I lack interest totally, or that the announcement didn't raise some interesting potential plots (It did) but I don't want to spend too much money on these things. So this is one of the titles I don't buy in general. Not enough there to change my mind.

- Justice League is the same lineup with two "rookie" Green Lanterns. Once is Jessica Cruz, Power Ring from new52. Unknown if she still has the alt universe "evil" GL ring, or gets a real GL ring from this universe. Right now in the Justice League comics, the evil ring has completely overtaken control of her body and she's no longer in control. I guess she gets control back. As a side note, the two GL have their own book on earth, whereas Hal Jordan and the other more familar Green Lanterns have what I guess is a space centered book.

Looks like the Justice League Superman is the Action Comics Superman.

Will subscribe.

- Some imagery from Super Sons confirms that it's what we thought it was. Will not buy.

- The Superwoman comic was announced. The picture could have been Lois Lane, or it could have been a new character. There's a debate. Not sure if I'm going to get it or not. Waiting for more detail.

- Trinity is exactly what we thought. Not coming till the fall. Tentatively plan to subscribe.

Good stuff overall. Excited for Action Comics, New Superman and Trinity, Superman and maybe Super Sons (depends on creative teams).

Very disappointed not to see Kon-El anywhere. I had expected as much but I'm still dissapointed. At the very least, I hope his actions from Teen Titans 12 get rectoned and he's thrown in one of the books (Supergirl, Super Sons or New Superman) as a supporting character.

It would be weird superman no longer having any connections to the NU52 cast. Including Batman and especially Wonder Woman

Oddly, for me at least, is that Rebirth still wasn't really explained. I mean, they spent a lot of time explaining it in marketing speak, but the details are being withheld. Do the pre and post Flashpoint characters all get merged together? Do some pre-Flashpoint characters get restored and replace their new52 counterparts? Do both exist side by side in the same universe? Do we have two continuities going simultaneously like the way old WW2 era Superman had his world and the regular Superman had his world for a while before Crisis on Infinite Earths? Is it the new52 characters regaining their predecessors' memories but still having their new52 bodies and memories?

One thing is that whatever they do in general, Superman *could* be an exception, because Superman and Lois were already established as pre-Flashpoint characters living in a post-Flashpoint world at the same time as the new52 versions of the former two characters.

@lantian1: Yeah, that's one of the things that argues against the Superman in the Superman book being the new52 Superman, because, if he's still around, you'd think he'd be the one in the Justice League and the main Superman for the other superheros who have known him for years now and are from the same world. Yet, the picture for the Justice League Superman is clearly the same as the Action Comics Superman, which seems to be the pre-Flashpoint Superman, and is described as being with Lois and Jon. Maybe there's a merger of some sort where he's actually both. If they were to do old Superman in Action Comics and new52 Superman in Superman, that'd be neat, but it'd weird if they really gave them the exact same look- you'd probably want the AC comics to have this neo-classic costume and new52 Superman to keep the new52 costume and maybe even get his armor back for visual differentiation.

Looks cool, not sure of some things, but it's been so long since I've read Supes I am a bit desperate

Glad to see lots of focus on Luthor

I was much more excited for the Superman line as compared to the Batman line but this is just a mess of epic proportions.

Super Sons has no creative team,should I feel excited or should I start worrying?

Superman has a good creative team,if people are doubting Tomasi then rest assured Gleason has proven his writing chops but which versions of the character will star here?

Same goes for Action but I'm not keen on Jurgens

We know next to nothing about Superwoman and Super-man

Supergirl has the ever talented Orlando but this Cyborg Superman I'm not touching with a 10 foot pole.

We need a lot more information for these books compared to the rest of the Rebirth line up,can Superman editorial get it's act together?

I hate the blue boots also I hope new 52 superman doesn't die but he possibly will

The only main Superman book that interests me is Action Comics, and that is just because of Lex Luthor. I am also going to read Trinity.

One potential cool part of the new book set in China could be the artwork. Gives them a kind of exotic (to western eyes) landscape to depict relative to most of their books. So much of the DC and even the Marvel come universe is set in New York or some pseudo alternate take on New York like Metropolis or Gotham. If it's not there, it's usually still in the US. When it's not in the US , it's often in space or on another planet. Nothing wrong with that, *but*...

This new book might be neat if just to watch the "Super-Man" flying over the mountains of Tibet or soaring over the cityscace of Shanghai and other Chinese cities, walking around them in his regular guy persona, etc.. Kind of interesting visually for people who've never been there if done well.

Very interested in Pre-Flashpoint Superman getting a promotion of sorts to a different title and creative team, would be neat if Jurgens switched to New 52 Supes to try and elevate him a bit more in the eyes of more cynical older fans...but it's been a habit to put a lot of familiar writers on that Superman to try and work the old magic and it doesn't quite work all of the time, with slight exception (Morrison)

I am a bit worried that they might kill of the new52 Superman entirely. I mean, people have invested five years in him and a ton of money buying comics related to him. He should live on in some way, so it's not like all those events never happened.

It's not that I object to the old Superman returning, that's interesting, too, and people are right about the friction of him taking the place of the Superman the other members of the Justice League knew, and in the case of Wonder Woman, literally loved and almost married. Here's a new to them older guy with a wife and kid just taking his place.

I think they need to preserve new52 Clark in some way- different universe's Superman, different role or superhero name, something. At least merge him into the old Superman if nothing else so that the Superman we see remembers the new52 events and occasionally shows traces of that personality or references that world and growing up there.

Jurgens just confirmed on Twitter he's writing "L&C Superman" in Action Comics. Looks like New 52 Superman will be forced into retirement so to speak.

@lvenger: Awesome but also pretty weird. How will they handle the interaction with everybody else in the universe.

Eeep. I love Pre-Flashpoint Clark for obvious "Grew up with" reasons, but that doesn't sound very fair on N52 fans of the character, and at best, feels like he will "die for the sins" of the failed N52 branding.

I would have preffered if they changed New 52 Superman for the better but maybe this is what it really needs.

Oh well, looks like time has come for me to drop DC comics altogether :P

Side note:

One thing I missed watching a lot of the stream is that Bryan Hitch is writing the new Justice League. I'm excited about that. His Justice League of America book's initial storyline has been perhaps the best comic DC has been doing lately. That, and American Alien (Different writer). So, he's a good choice, especially given that Justice League of America is going on hiatus for a while and might relaunch with B-squad characters. It'll be nice to get a twice monthly book right away with Hitch still writing for the A-team Justice League, just on the A-title now, and within a hiatus for him personally.

I'm ready to read some Pre-52 Superman. I gotta brush up on L&C when then trade comes out.

I'm hearing from CBR threads that Jurgens and Jones have clarified that New 52 Superman is the focus of the main Superman book...so it's possible that cover with Pre-Flashpoint Clark is just for an appearance in that one issue.

• What did bug you? That we didn't get enough info? Probably that's why the titles are coming out in September because they are early in development.
• Gleason's art preview has Pre-52 Superman tearing off the black suit for his new one and Lois with Jon. Jurgens confirmed Action will be about Pre-52 Superman. I don't know anything about Superman.
• I agree. I hear good things about Gleason's storytelling.
• I wasn't keen either. But L&C was good. Not great, but definitely solid and the premise is very interesting.

Jurgens has confirmed that AC will be about Pre-52 Superman. But I don't see any confirmation that New 52 Supes is gonna be in Superman.

Some preview art:

http://www.newsarama.com/28577-the-new-definitive-dc-rebirth-art-gallery.html

@squalleon: Notice how Gleason's art has different boots. Maybe coloring mistake or maybe he's different Supes.

DC Comics is really getting creamed elsewhere. People really hate the idea of the old Superman just stepping into the new Superman's universe and editorial killing off the new Superman. The more I think about it, the more I get why.

Just so that bad publicity doesn't drive the Rebirth into a ditch two months before it starts, it'd probably be a good idea for DC to come out and say something like "Action Comics is the old Superman back in his old universe, which continued without him and presumed he was dead while he was gone." and "The Superman title is the new52 Superman in the main DC universe, the new52 universe, being Superman". Even if that's not what they originally planned to do, it seems more and more like that's what they *should* do.

The idea of old Superman in the new universe has some short term interesting stuff going on where he kind of is shocked or amused by the different versions of his old friends and enemies, and they by him, and produces some interesting interpersonal dynamics. However, long term, do we really want to still be reading that in a year or two years or three years? Where's the Superman we invested the last 5 years in? You know, the Superman who was born in this universe? And, in the end, is old Superman a good *permanent* fit with a universe he wasn't born into where he'll either be to some degree an odd man out at a different age than this universe's Superman and never fit in with the other characters "correctly" and seem like he's an imposter or where they'll have to move heaven and earth to retcon all the other characters to fit properly with him and it won't make any sense to people who've read the comics the last 5 years and know the new versions well? How long before they just pretend old Superman was born on that earth and we never hear about him being from another universe again?

I would say if they do old Superman takes new Superman's place in new Metropolis, it might be best that it be a temporary storyline where you can do all the neat ideas like how do the Daily Planet crew react to him and vice-versa, how does the Justice League react to him and vice-versa, and all that stuff- and then ultimately return him to his universe and put this universe's Superman back into place. In the meantime, *do not* kill off this universe's Superman. Keep him in the picture.

I don't know the whole thing just is starting to feel weird now, like they are destroying the guy we've gotten to know for five years, possibly killing off the character in story, and just sticking another guy into his spot like it's no big thing.

Old Superman isn't just an alien from another planet if they do this- he's an alien from another planet *in another universe* and grew up and had a whole career and life as Superman and Clark Kent on a third planet in that universe that isn't the "real" earth he's going to be on in the new books. Even if they like de-age him, he won't really be a good fit with like the technology and the lingo that someone born at the time he was born should know. It'd be as if they had the version of Superman from the first edition of Action Comics in 1938 just suddenly be Superman in the 1997 in the universe of Superman in 1997 and with all the 1997 characters as they were in 1997. Ultimately, you'd wind up melding Superman to fit the time and the characters, or melding all of them to fit him, in a really unnatural way, and it'd seem disrespectful to the real Superman of that time to just sort of move on as if he never existed and it was this guy all along.

It's just weird.

I find it odd that they basically said nothing about the main Superman title on-stage. Why not at least tell us which Superman it's about or it's relation to Action Comics? Are we just supposed to go "Oh, it's obviously the old guy because they restored him in Action Comics" or "Oh, it's obviously the new52 guy, because we know by telepathy that they wouldn't kill him off"? I mean, are we going to be dealing with old Lois and Jon and Super-Luthor in the Superman title, too?

And, no, turning either Lois into "Superwoman" does not help matters. That'd kill either character. That's not who they are- either of them.

I see. Maybe the CBR forums are in denial or something then? The uncertainty is frustrating for fans of that character.

I don't want this to be DC's "Clone Saga", especially if it makes so many people dislike the Superman of the post-crisis age.

Superman is going backwards while comics like (Batman, Green Arrow, Spider-Man etc) are moving forwards in being new age and ground breaking while retaining the basis that they personified and are loved for, why can't superman be like that.

@jimishim12: you couldn't be more wrong if you tried. Superman went backwards when his history was erased at the start of the new 52 so writers just repeated the same five basic stoiries. Now Supes finally moves forward in New direcrions. For the first time Superman has a Son a family and that opens a ton of storytelling. The other characters you mentioned didn't have their history erased. Except green arrow and thats why the character struggles! @zariusii: I disagree this is Superman finally moving forward in new direction never before. The clone saga was about going back. This gives new storytelling directions as mentioned above.

Spider-Man is the furthest thing from that. Most long-term fans despise the book now.

@squalleon: I wasn't disagreeing with the exciting notion of Superman going forward with a legacy to look after, I was just worried about the similar backlash that Clone Saga caused with fans, where they tried substituting one hero for another under the idea that hero was the "real deal" (only in this case, he IS) and the other hero would be downplayed. I love pre-flashpoint Superman and don't care for N52 Supes, but I still don't feel like it's fair to treat him like Ben Reily, a lot of fans have taken to him. There should be room for both.

Also, Peter did have some of his history erased, his marriage and wife's pregnancy was stripped from him by the events of OMD. Batman's history is more intact than his is.

@zariusii: What i meant was that the clone saga was an excuse to return to the status quo. Unmarry peter etc. While now Superman is picking up his history where it was left off.

DESPITE what many may think. I don't hate N52 Supes. And i think his differences compared to P52 Supes are zero. But I do belive P52 Supes has way bigger storytelling potential.Due to his history and family. New 52 for the last 5 years was repeating the same 5 most basic tropes of a Superman story.

Though writers have been the main point of discussion, I feel that artistically at least, the Superman Family has come off well with some really great choices. Though I'm not a big fan of multiple artists and was disappointed not to see Lee Weeks on a Superman title, Stephen Segovia, Patrick Zircher and Tyler Kirkham are some top choices to be the Action Comics artists.

Gallery

Mahkhe and Gleasan are a solid and complimentary pair to be on Superman too.

You hate Spidey because he's got more money than you and isn't able to live vicariously as. Don't take your bias on to Supes, Spider-Man fans treat the new direction are like they always been, divisive to what Spidey is currently portrayed as. Superman is always back to where he just seems to go back when something new doesn't hold new fans, always going back to conservative status quo supes.