Superman Is Dead Again--What That Now Means

@drocta: I wonder how much the Death of Superman polybag and all goes for this days.......

@judasnixon: Probably cover price. The comic book spec thing was the worst.

@drocta: So less than a pack of cigarettes? That's what I thought..... I remember when I was a kid people were buying like twenty copies of that thing thinking that it would be worth thousands of dollars now. I would be surprised if this issue of Superman broke over 60,000 in sales..... So most likely Superman getting killed the second time is worth more money than the first time it happened......... That's comics.

Eh I guess

Dude, there's numerous factors as to "why".

For one, they're replacing him right off the bat with another Superman from a parallel universe. There's no vacuum like before.

Another reason is that "comic book deaths" have long lost their luster. Nobody bats an eye as someone dying. In fact, it's more surprising when someone doesn't return from the dead at some point. In layman's terms, no one cares when someone dies anymore. Superman started that trend, he was the first. And that was over twenty years ago.

Then there's the fact that this death was far less publicized than the last time. Remember, Superman's first death was intended to be permanent because his popularity was so spent and evaporated, DC didn't even know what to do with him anymore. So they decided to get rid of him with a bang, which ironically is what saved him from a literary death.

Just some things to keep in mind.

What he said

He wore it better. Looks like a majestic lion

Even though he's the Superman I grew up, Pre-Flashpoint isn't the [i]true[/i] Superman, he's just [i]a[/i] Superman. A Superman not hampered by horrible writing, editorial meddling, and lack of focus. Look at Superman in Unchained or in the Justice League books, or any guest spot he'd had and you'll see the Superman of old.

After all, the same issues that plagued DCnU Supes are the same issues that Superman had prior to the reboot in the first place, and brining back the old Superman is just DC's cheap way of dodging an issue by saying it didn't count and isn't valid rather than getting competent staff to direct the character to remove him from the issues.

On the bright side, he has a competent roster now, so I guess that's a plus.

I like some also did not like that they got rid of new 52 Superman. Mind you I do still like the older Superman so this isn't a knock against him but having Lois and a super baby instead of the Superman/Wonder Woman pairing is a big let down.

I have a theory about this multiple Superman's thing: like the Joker, there are three of them. So, the first one was the one who fell in battle to Doomsday way back when. The second one is the the one with the black, capeless costume. I'm thinking he was born as the New 52's Superman and somehow getting sent back to a previous universe, which is why when Superman returned to life, he was wearing a similar if not identical black costume, then the whole thing with Convergence and SLC happened and he's back in his original universe, but he might not remember it for any number of reasons. The third one is the younger Superman we got to know through the vast majority of the New 52, and I think that Mr. Oz created him to replace the missing black-costumed one. And if that last one's true, it might explain the Superboy segment of the recent-ish volume of Secret Origins, where his DNA test results say that he's part human, kryptonian and an unidentified third genetic factor (since the latest Superboy was a clone of a possible future son of the third Superman and Lois Lane. And I guess the two Lois' thing can be explained with the one that's married to Superman is definitely the one from the Pre-Flashpoint universe, having known the first Superman and maybe the second one gains the first one's memories by some kind of memory-sync, and the second one is the New 52's native Lois.

If only he would keep that black costume.

@drocta: @judasnixon: sealed in the bag they are selling for about $15 on ebay. Someone gave me a bunch of comics to sell and its among them.

@ultimatesmfan: Happen to recall where the interview is on the web?

Defensive much? I and the other user simply remarked on how like night and day these two events are. No one made any claims as to why.

Not that the fandom hasn't generally swung between happy and indifferent in regard to Supermillennial's death/Superman's return.

Also, I have no idea what you're supposed to be referring to as "Superman's first death." The 90s Death was not the first time the character died. If you're talking about the 90s death--it was never meant to be permanent. It also was something spun out of a stalling maneuver because the creative teams wanted to do the Clark/Lois marriage but were given a mandate to hold off until it happened in the Lois & Clark show.

I noticed that in Rebirth, Post-Crisis Captain Atom was present with other heroes after Superman's death in the very same area that the battle took place. At first I thought it was just a small cameo, but you never know.

I´m behind in DC comics but I had every intention to catch up in the next week, putting this in the very fron of the website seems like almost an insult to me. I´m sure I´m not the only one who didn´t knew this.

@judasnixon: Last time it was the 90's when the industry almost failed. Gimmick covers were killing it, and people were scooping up "collectors items" in hopes of making a fast buck. THAT is why it sold so well. I remember when the issue came out, the polybagged deluxe version was reselling for about $75, then a few weeks later, just a few bucks. It was also during a time when comic book deaths mattered more. Rather different circumstances.

@josai34: New 52 Superman was angry and edgey because he lost his Kents at an early age he did't have them for as long as Pre New 52 Superman.

@vvknight2: interesting. I imagine that could have been Manhattans way of stealing the hope from that version of Superman.

@vvknight2: interesting. I imagine that could have been Manhattans way of stealing the hope from that version of Superman.

Oh.

Well

I've got my Wally AND Clark back, DC Comics haven't been this good in ages :D!

"New 52 Superman is dead and gonna stay dead." Translation: "New 52 Supes is gonna be in writer limbo until another writer decides it time to bring him back! And, the twist will be, 52 Supes IS the real Superman!"

He'll be back, but there is little to be gained in revealing he's the "true" Superman, just have him be a construct designed for the N52 in Pre-Flashpoint's absence and give him a new identity. Simple as that.

I got it, DCnU Supes will come back, be revealed to be the real Superman, and the old Superman will be revealed to be Mr Majestic made to believe that he was Superman because Mr Majestic has the power and skills necessary to defeat Dr. Manhattan.

Or at least, that's what I want because I want more Majestic.

@risingbean: Could't agree more with you about both DC and Marvel.

DC did a daring reboot with N52 but now back peddles which yields a pretty confusing and muddled time line

Marvel has gone ape-shit-crazy on politically correct agenda shovelling and basically destroyed half of their most iconic characters.

<sarcasm>Fantastic job all around, writers and editors!</sarcasm>

Now we just need for everyone to call him Aslan.

http://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/geoff-johns-talks-about-shazam-the-real-captain-ma-1794209/?messageId=16814100#js-message-9

This is the interview, Blastr being the source.

@ultimatesmfan: Thank you!

@ultimatesmfan:

In fact the way New52 Superman died seems a lot like how Dr Manhattan died.

Dr Manhattan got his body disintegrated, and when New52 Supes dies, his body that should've exploded in a much larger explosion. Simply disintegrated just releasing a small amount of energy.

So it seems they're trying to somehow link two deaths. The one that gave birth to Dr Manhattan and now Superman.

@saintwildcard:

Why does anyone still reads @Drocta trollish talk, is beyond me.

The best way to kill a troll is to stop feeding him.

@heavenlydarkdragon: He doesn't like my favorite fictional character! Troll!! He made a brief comparison between two like events and I got defensive! TROLL!!! You're the true troll. Keep clutching those pearls.

No, lots of ordinary non-comic people were genuinely upset that they were killing him off. It was more than just a collector thing.

And you know what the best part is. These so called old school hardcore fans are already being slapped in the face by Rebirth and don't even realize it.

Look at Superman Rebirth. It was one slap in the face after another.

So we have pre-Flashpoint Superman waiting for Superman to come back to life. Which goes against what happened to him. In Byrne version Superman was able to come back to the world of the living because of 4 main factors. His body remained for the most part intact, so much so that even in death it was still healing itself. That's why the Cadmus project was unable to get any blood samples from the body. His father Jonathan Kent had a heart attack that allowed his spirit to meet with that of Supes and the two came back together. The Eradicator that had come to take Superman body has is own so to keep the kryptonian race alive was unable to possess the body and so he was forced to create a duplicate, and took the body of the real Superman to the Fortress and placed him inside the Regeneration Matrix.

So. Superman didn't just came back to life on his own. But there he was in Superman Rebirth, waiting like an idiot.

And then came the part that totally blew my mind and not in a good way. Initially I was under the impression that Superman body when he released that energy he had basically turned to ash. Burned himself completely. But then I saw pre-Flashpoint Superman waiting for New52 Superman to come alive. And I honestly thought "Well. Maybe the damage wasn't so severe after all." And go and see him interacting with Lana. And I thought she was opening the door to New52 Supes, tomb. And what do we get?! A can! A freaking can with Superman ashes! And I started laughing so hard. Honestly I thought I was gonna die.

So it took all the things I mentioned before to bring old Superman back to life, and even then when he came back and the Eradicator explained how he had been able to come back from the dead. The Eradicator said that it was most likely a one time deal, seeing that it had been a combination of the Eradicator powers plus the technology in the Fortress, and the fact that Superman body had remained for the most part intact, that enabled him to come back to life. And then we see him trying to bring New52 Superman to life from ashes.

I laugh so hard, mainly because there I was. Reading Johns brilliant plan, and all it did was sh*t on pre-New52 facts. It was like they were giving the finger and at the same time slapping all fans that know this stuff. Basically what can now be considered the old school fans. I felt at the same time insulted and couldn't stop laughing, because from day one, I was against Rebirth. That it would eventually start to refer to old facts the wrong way and we'd once again see mess on top of mess. And on the first issue of Superman Rebirth... There it was.

If this is what old school hardcore fans have been praising so much. Something tells me, this Rebirth thing, is not gonna last half as long as they think it will.

@heavenlydarkdragon: I really don't know how you reached that quite absurd and rather hypocritical conclusion but eh, Rebirth was never going to appeal to you so I can't say I blame your knee jerk reaction. However, several of your points do not even begin to support the faulty conclusion that Rebirth is a slap in the face to older fans when everything it's done so far was for the older fans.

@lvenger:

Of course not. It's a disease you seem to suffer called blind fandom.

Funny how you simply ignored how everything I said was right. Did I make anything up about how the old Superman died? Did I make anything up of how he came back to life?

So why don't you talk about that. Don't run away from the issue. Face it, head on.

The simple fact that such disrespect didn't affect you at all. And I was defending old stuff, not the New52 stuff. I was defending what you should be defending.

It shouldn't have been me to point out this things. It should be people like you. That call themselves true Superman fans.

You should be raged beyond reasoning. Because what DC did was beyond resoning. But no... All you want his Clark and Lois together, and their son. All else can go to hell. Facts. Consistency. Remember consistency?? How much talk you gave me about it. Well... Where is it?

Closing your eyes will not protect you from the truth. And the truth is that, if that was how they started... Man I got to run from whatever comes next or I might stop reading DC Comics for good. Kill the cancer before it spreads.

@heavenlydarkdragon: As far as Superman knows, they're in a parallel universe where MANY of the same general events that happened in his home universe also happened in the New 52 one. Johns specifically has Lois point this out to Clark in DCU Rebirth. So it follows that Superman suspects that Supermillennial will return to life via similar means that he did. Thus he attempts to facilitate it by helping get the process started, only to come to the conclusion that, for now at least, it looks like this won't be an event that will "repeat."

Of course not. It's a disease you seem to suffer called blind fandom.

Personal insults... Yeah, you're not a troll at all! Dude, I know you're salty af your dude is dead, but get ahold of yourself.

@lvenger: I really don't know how you reached that quite absurd

Seriously. That was some Mary Lou Retton-levels of gymnastics right there.

@jayskee: Since Doctor Manhattan is now in the DC Universe, it would not surprise me at all if Dr. Oz doesn't turn out to be Ozymandias.

So does that mean Brandon Routh will be back as Superman in the DCCU and his Lois and their son???

@heavenlydarkdragon: Superman wasn't waiting like an idiot you dolt. He was going to retrieve superman's body to try and do the same thing. There are also problems with other things you said, did you even read the issue dude?

yeah except now he will be hanging out with less experienced versions of his team members. I don't know how that will make me feel, and I wonder how their dynamic will be.


Also wasn't the point of the new 52 to make it easier for new people to jump in with the removal of all these earths, then earth 2 came out, then a bunch of other universe hopping stories, and then convergence, its back to what it was like before.

@heavenlydarkdragon:

Of course not. It's a disease you seem to suffer called blind fandom.

But seriously what's your problem? Did I kick your dog or murder your parents? Otherwise this rude outburst is quite silly and makes you look childish and petty here.

Funny how you simply ignored how everything I said was right. Did I make anything up about how the old Superman died? Did I make anything up of how he came back to life?

Nope, but you missed the most crucial part of Superman's resurrection being the regeneration matrix. Also, his death and return was told from his perspective so of course he'd skip over the interim steps taken to resurrect him, he wasn't there. Seems kind of obvious from a story telling perspective, but then a writer would never be as nitpicky and obsessed with inane details as you are.

So why don't you talk about that. Don't run away from the issue. Face it, head on.

I did by questioning your accusations. I always tackle you head on, it's the only way to deal with a brick wall.

The simple fact that such disrespect didn't affect you at all. And I was defending old stuff, not the New52 stuff. I was defending what you should be defending.

Coming from the same guy who says he got bored of the Pre New 52 Superman and who rants about how DC should be doing something new all the time, I doubt it's the old stuff that's truly your beef here. Why would or should this disrespect me? There are continuity inconsistencies all throughout the Big Two. The New 52 ruined any semblance of continuity in far greater depth and scope than this so called inconsistency yet you're treating it as a faulty cog in the wheel of Rebirth. Drama queen much?

It shouldn't have been me to point out this things. It should be people like you. That call themselves true Superman fans.

If Rebirth does something stupid or wrong, I'll call them out on it. I'm not going to stop being critical of DC just because they say they'll go back to what made their comics work before. I've criticised the use of Watchmen and the 3 Jokers reveal for instance, that was either risky or stupid (the latter)

You should be raged beyond reasoning. Because what DC did was beyond resoning. But no... All you want his Clark and Lois together, and their son. All else can go to hell. Facts. Consistency. Remember consistency?? How much talk you gave me about it. Well... Where is it?

I see you've also taken it upon yourself to tell me what I should be thinking and saying about something. Orwell made himself famous writing fictional stories against such a practice you know. What I wanted was a well written and characterised Superman and I waited years to get a Superman in the comics I felt I could like and root for once again. Facts and consistency are still there, Jurgens confirmed this was the same Superman who had been through other events such as President Luthor's time in office, which was something Jurgens didn't write. As for consistency here, it's in how Superman views his own death and return, he wasn't around for the Funeral for a Friend part of it.

Closing your eyes will not protect you from the truth. And the truth is that, if that was how they started... Man I got to run from whatever comes next or I might stop reading DC Comics for good. Kill the cancer before it spreads.

Again drama queen much? Never mind how the story set up the introduction of Pre FP Superman into this world, or how well it depicted Lana Lang's interactions with Superman, never mind how Superman recalled his thoughts and feelings on his own death or how he honours New 52 Superman in the Fortress with his own statue thus honouring the legacy of that version of Superman too, no this potential continuity error has crippled Rebirth before it's begun. See how silly that sounds when you put it in perspective?

There's nothing continuity violating about Superman's attempt to start resurrecting the kid. Superman can't force some cosmic being (New52 Kismet?) to save his soul, he can't do anything about the fact that the kid's body turned into kitty litter instead of staying preserved, he can't summon the Eradicator to leech excess solar energy from the kid's now non-existent corpse, etc. But he CAN be proactive when it comes to getting his remains to the Fortress and trying to jumpstart a parallel event. The last thing the issue needed was to get mired in excess continuity wonk details. Talk about completely missing the entire theme of the story (willfully so, I suspect).

This "I'm going to pretend to be upset for a non-issue I actually don't care about on behalf of a fandom I don't care for" shtick isn't going to work. Sorry. It's not going to become a thing. Find another angle to work your backlash.

@w0nd: I have no idea what the dynamic will be but I'm looking forward to that. Especially Clark and Diana since he was never in a relationship with her.

On paper it may have looked like rebooting was a great idea but imo they lost what made DC great. Apparently I'm not the only one to feel that way. I've maintained that if DC wanted a fresh start for new fans or whatever then they should be focusing on their earth one line more than they are instead of giving us redundancy.

'The real Superman is back', really, u a funny dude

So if the old Superman is coming back...

Does this means that the mighty red underwear is coming back too?

YES LAWD!

@perethorn: nope, probably not.

@oldwasher said:

@perethorn: nope, probably not.

:( I liked the red underwear...

And those blue boots...I'm gonna have to get used to them, they look weird to me

But still...that costume is way more appealing to me than the one N52 Supes was wearing