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#201 Edited by suemorphplus209 (366 posts) - - Show Bio

IMO, they should do an action RPG similar to Marvel Ultimate Alliance games featuring DC Heroes and trivia, since the action RPGs have flight, projectile moves, etc. they could easily incorporate it into DC Comics characters, their move sets, leveling up, etc. plus get the iconic voice roles

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#202 Edited by MercinWithAMouth (947 posts) - - Show Bio

@suemorphplus209: Have you ever played Justice League Heroes? It came out probably a week or so before the first Ultimate Alliance, but I'd say Ultimate Alliance was better for sure. They're both the same time of game, top down brawler with different characters.

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#203 Posted by Lvenger (36338 posts) - - Show Bio

@mercinwithamouth: Nice art of Superman fighting Doomsday you've got for your story header. I think that's Shane Davis' artwork but it could be Adrian Syaf as well. Would be cool if a comic book artist did the concept art for the Superman video game.

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#204 Edited by suemorphplus209 (366 posts) - - Show Bio

@mercinwithamouth: I was out of the game so to speak at the time of Ultimate Alliance and Justice League Heroes, played it years after the fact, but now that you mentioned it, I might as well look it up. It would still be cool if someone were to do it now and insert DCYou/New52 skins and trivia.

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#205 Posted by MercinWithAMouth (947 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger: Thanks! It's my favorite picture of Superman vs Doomsday. It's a piece that Tyler Kirkham put on his DeviantArt account. I love his work. Haha

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#206 Posted by MiniSaladFresh (521 posts) - - Show Bio

Every time I hear people talk about Rocksteady making another DC game I die a little inside.

Yes, the Batman games were great, but I don't want the same developer making all the DC games. I want a Superman game to have a completely different look and feel to it, I don't want to feel like I'm playing Arkham Knight with a Superman mod. Let somebody else do Superman, let Rocksteady do their own stuff (I'd really like to see how Rocksteady do with their own IP)

Keep DC games feeling unique, and let Rocksteady be something more than "the guys who make the DC games"

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#207 Posted by MercinWithAMouth (947 posts) - - Show Bio

@minisaladfresh: I agree, they shouldn't be bound to DC games. Though, I feel they'd make a great Superman game if they were to work with him. I'm sure it wouldn't be an Arkham skin because they're smarter than that.

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#208 Posted by DieHard200904 (592 posts) - - Show Bio

I agree about the game ideas. Thy should do some interesting game. I still play the old Spider-Man 2, and I don't understand why they can't do something a little decent like that for Superman, where you have a life bar because you have enemies armed with weapons from Apokolips or they havr Kryptonite, then there are rescue missions where you need to catch someone or get them out of a place within a time limit. Only riddle is how to handle flight mechanics.

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#209 Posted by Redlantern_darkknight (96 posts) - - Show Bio

@mercinwithamouth: I could imagine the next superman game being similar to the amazing spiderman game.

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#210 Posted by MercinWithAMouth (947 posts) - - Show Bio

@redlantern_darkknight: The Amazing Spider-Man games are rather mediocre. In what sense could you see them being similar? I'm just curious.

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#211 Posted by Redlantern_darkknight (96 posts) - - Show Bio

@mercinwithamouth: IDK. I mean their both pretty powerful characters for a video game. And this would probably take place in a city environment. I'm talking more gameplay wise than graphic.

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#212 Posted by suemorphplus209 (366 posts) - - Show Bio

@redlantern_darkknight: I like the idea of free roaming in A superhero game, like Spider-Man 2 or the Amazing Spider-Man games. Flight mechanics are going to be a tough part of the game though.

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#213 Posted by MercinWithAMouth (947 posts) - - Show Bio

@suemorphplus209: They've had an open world Superman game that had some great concepts, but those concepts were executed poorly. The flight was the strongest element in the game though. I think if it had a cohesive story, better mission structure, variety, and depth, along with ground takedowns, the would have been saved.

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#214 Posted by kenshima15 (661 posts) - - Show Bio

Great ideas man! Would have commented sooner, but I've been quietly following the thread, and yes I agree a 100%

Fabok's art is amazing.

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#215 Edited by MercinWithAMouth (947 posts) - - Show Bio

@kenshima15: Thank you very much! I'm glad you're familiar to me too, as I've seen you around on here.

Fabok is the best. Haha

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#216 Posted by johnny_blaze (1357 posts) - - Show Bio

In the game, Superman's villains should challenge him in different ways. Not everything has to be physical.

Toyman-Toy planes laced in kryptonite destroying the city, a mecha controlled by Toyman that can regenerate itself. How do you deal with something that keeps growing back?

Livewire-What's stopping her from absorbing all the power in Metropolis and using it against Superman? That's a lot of volts.

Parasite-Every blow you dish out is like a meat to him. That forces you to get creative.

Now let's talk about Supergirl DLC :)

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#217 Posted by MercinWithAMouth (947 posts) - - Show Bio

@johnny_blaze: I felt that was the idea, having the enemies be interesting ones. I think his Rogue's Gallery would make for some great and interesting fights.

As for Supergirl, I could see her being a playable character.

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#218 Posted by DieHard200904 (592 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger: Besides Superman moves, fights in a scale and speed that's far beyond the comprehension capability of a human brain, it will be extremely hard to translate all those into a video game. I don't see a developer doing those without nerfing his powers and then just as you said, many will complain it's not the ideal Superman game they are looking for.

You could give Superman a "bullet time" effect in game. At times where you have built up or recharged a focus meter, you get a reserve of "bullet time" where you run/fly faster, and your kinetic impact/punches do more damage because they are faster.

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#219 Posted by Impervious (5603 posts) - - Show Bio

I feel like a "Shadow of the Colossus" concept could work on a Superman game. Except you know replacing the giant monsters with Superman foes instead and gameplay that fits more with Superman's abilities.

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#220 Edited by BappyRonChantin (2772 posts) - - Show Bio

@diehard200904: Well, the thing is superman is always fast in comics and bullet time might be not enough. Enabling superspeed after recharging a focus meter sounds like nerfing. If the fans can accept that it's a rather good idea, I thought of something similar too. In another thread I said it's hard to make a good Superman game without making it linear where the users can access to his grand powers only at certain times. Another idea I liked where the gamer has to maintain the health status of the city. Supes powers will always be there but if the gamer uses them excessively the city gets destroyed and the game is over, where the idea of your bullet time effect sounds rather complementary.

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#221 Posted by suemorphplus209 (366 posts) - - Show Bio

IMHO, part of what it takes to know a good Superman game lies in finding one's favorite games, and what one liked about them.

For me, the ones I had some enjoyment of were:

1) Death and Return of Superman(SNES)

2) Superman: Countdown to Apokolips

3) Superman (iOS)

4) Superman: Shadow of Apokolips (GameCube)

Okay

Superman Returns (OK)(GameCube)

Strongly Disliked

N64 Superman (Boring)

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#222 Posted by DieHard200904 (592 posts) - - Show Bio

@mad_titan: Yes, comic characters get nerfed in video games. Wolverine gets nerfed a lot in his games, but I still find them fun because of the need to use technique to win. Spidey, Iron Man, Batman, not by a whole lot, but nerfing is somewhat an inevitable part of gameplay. Your idea of a city life bar sounds good, because that's part of Superman myth. People around him are weaker, and he does feel the need, or failure, depending on how well he protects them.

@suemorphplus: I don't think ANY superhero game beats Superman 64 for boring. I would rather be forced in a room to repeatedly play one of the Gameboy games than the N64, which I never finished it for how boring the ring parts were. Then there was facing off against the animated Faora what's her name and I could hover out of her reach. (Yes, I am curbstomping a Kryptonian who somehow can't jump up or fly to get me). That game deserves to never be remembered. And well, Death and Return of Superman is boring nowadays as one of those old beat em ups, very repetitive.

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#223 Posted by Hypester (133 posts) - - Show Bio

Okay, first of all, OP, ALL of the Kudos to you. This was very detailed and comprehensive and you address a whole load of great ideas. Instead of making my comparable thread, I think I might just throw my ideas in here with you, if you don't mind. Now keep in mind, I'm kinda holding the Arkham series as the golden standard, not in gameplay, but in the way gameplay is implemented, so if that's not the angle you're going for, keep that in mind.

Concern - Flight Combat

This is probably one of the trickier things to get right, and one of the biggest, since a lot of the combat comes this way, making it engrossing and intuitive would be necessary to give it the same kind of cache that the Arkham games and their splendid combat have. Like it or not, that is the comparison to be drawn. Managing several different modes of combat, the beloved QTE as well makes it seem unlikely or difficult for combat to be something that is freeing and engaging and more likely something that causes attacks to make you look at your controller instead of the screen. I would suggest for combat relying on a couple of much more simple mechanics, such as force and positioning, using various powers as triggers for the environment and bosses and such.

Concern - Lots of Controls

This is connected to the issue of the number of controls and options and powers and the different ways they work. Even something as simple as punching charging but leaping not requires a sort of piecemeal learning the same way we know though and tough don't sound anything alike. The Arkham games (I know, I know) took all of the disparate parts of Batman's arsenal and made switching between them pretty simple. I would take virtually all of his powers: Heat Vision, Cold Breath, Speed Perception, Super Singing, and whatever else you want to unlock, all to the same buttons. Perhaps the quickfire functionality you talk about could be really cool, but the idea of these are all things I have that I can point and hit people with seems really fitting.

Concern - Clark Kent playability

The changing into the civilian guise is a much desired part of these games, but it's also a bit of a pipe dream, in terms of creating meaningful gameplay there while also managing a superhero's worth of content. The Spider-Man games have done a nice nod to it by allowing you to walk around in the Daily Bugle or Aunt May's house to trigger missions, and even the Arkham games had a nice series where you are Batman in a Bruce Wayne skin, but all in all, it could easily be a time sink with little meaningful payoff. Stealthing as Clark to get information doesn't mean so much when the guy has super hearing and can overhear anything he wants. The more cinematic reason for CK, to ask questions, loses its efficacy without some kind of engaging question system. Doable, but it's a bit of a derailing from the core Superman experience.

Add on: Boss Fights

There aren't many enemies that Superman should be in a fight with, imho. I liked the idea of the ease of thugs being played for comedy. I would analogize encounters with thugs, whether holding up a bank or driving a getaway car, or whatever to triggering something with your batarang in the Arkham games. Really simple, just hit the right place and you're done. You could do Intergang as mooks, but that can get old quick. They'd work better, imho, as a boss fight than as a perennial foe scattered throughout metropolis turning Superman into another guy who goes around hte city fighting mooks, except these mooks have superguns! The biggest innovation/suggestion I would offer to someone making a Superman game is that all the fights should be boss fights. In this way, Shadow of the Colossus might be a better benchmark for pacing the game than anything like Arkham. There are, ostensibly, enough foes ot make this happen, the ones you named: Parasite, Zod (and Ursa, Non, and Faora), Metallo, Livewire, Armored Luthor, perhaps Doomsday and Brainiac if the story can handle it in a cohesive way, Toyman, as suggested, along with others like Solomon Grundy (perhaps amped), Bizarro, Atomic Skull, Amazo, Maxima, Lobo, Mongul, Manchester Black, Despero, White Martians... the list actually does go on quite a bit before we even get to Darkseid and all his lieutenants and parademons, or Ultraman and the Crime Syndicate or Starro-ed versions of the Justice League. It's a lot, really...

Add on: A World Without Borders

A huge challenge with a Superman game is the expectation that he will be able to go anywhere and do anything at the speed of light. This is a Donnerverse thing and that expectation really isn't going anywhere, no matter how many times a Superman that is merely ultra-powerful without being all-powerful is portrayed, because the THEME of Superman is that he can do anything, even if any particular incarnation cannot. And while I think (hope) players will be able to cope with the idea that Superman doesn't virtually teleport wherever he wants and defeats any issue with the press of a button, it does mean players will want to fly anywhere and, the rub: feel UNSUPERMANLIKE if they cannot. The Glass Jar in the proposed game is every bit as obnoxious as Kryptonite fog, or whatever else you can imagine to tell the ultimate power fantasy that he really isn't any more free than... Batman.

The solution, ideally, would be a procedurally generated universe to fly around in. This is completely untenable... but I would like to imagine that, if these areas are implemented with the purpose of being largely generic and intended to be mapless. An alternative would be to have each of the borders of the city take you to a location: Smallville, The Fortress of Solitude, the Ocean, Space... and leave the Ocean and Space as the empty mapless adrift places with nothing to do but fly around in emptiness or go back. Instead of invisible walls (or plot walls), simply allow them to go out into the emptiness and turn back of their own accord. And naturally any smaller place you go to: Smallville, the FOS, going to the edge of those maps asks you if you'd like to return to metropolis. Many players will still feel cheated that they can't fulfill their superman dreams of going anywhere and doing nothing, but most could be brokered into staying immersed if its done well.

Add on: Flight Trigger

The challenge with flight is that its boring. You just press a button and go. What makes flight in something like Just Cause or Prototype or Saints Row IV interesting is that it's not really flight at all... it's 'falling... with style!' This gliding and jumping creates an interactivity in the game, even if you're just traversing the gameworld. Contrast with flight in a superhero MMO like City of Heroes where you set the flight button, and then go to get a sandwich. Because flight is just a straight line. Arguably one of the best Superman Games I've ever played is... Lego Batman 2. There's something not only chillingly awesome when you take to the skies to the John Williams Score, but the sky is litered with details, lights in the distance act as infinitely tall landscape, or airscape in this case for you to interact with. I would certainly litter the world with clouds and lights and floaty fun things to play with, but most importantly flight would be a bit like jumping through the air, as the player aims and charges bursts to send them hurtling through the sky. As such, doing the up, up and away is an analog decision instead of more digital, and further, learning to turn can not only be extremely rewarding but allow for some really interesting navigation and turning challenges when combined with speed perception-styled super speed.

Add on: Feeling Like Superman

My greatest contribution would be working out a system whereby the player feels the need to protect the city in the same way Superman does. The whole endeavor can easily turn into a very unwieldy escort mission whereby the player hates their need to protect every silly little polygon and that the city, and its health meter and failstates are a burden to the player being truly free. The answer I think, would be to create the kind of bond that makes a great escort character. The kind we see from the girl in the Walking Dead video game, from Elizabeth in Bioshock Inifinite, and even in the Companion Cube. This essentially boils down to great characterization, helpful characters, and not getting in the way. To this end, the supporting cast of the city would be chief, with Lois,Jimmy, Dan Turpin and Emil Hamilton representing the most important aspects of protecting Metropolis, perhaps dovetailed by everyone from Bibbo Bibbowski to Cat Grant to Maggie Sawyer, John Henry Irons, Natasha Irons, and pretty much anyone you can shake a stick at representing and personifying how their section of the city helps you when you protect it. Combine this with the building repair/help mechanic that you suggest and the building destruction perhaps left behind by the Kryptonians in the first battle and you can create an environment where the player is the one who (perhaps with Luthor's help, mwahaha!) builds the city, and thus they feel an ownership to protect it in the same way as someone building a city in SimCity might. Same idea with Ma and Lana in Smallville or Krypto and Eradicator in the Fortress of Solitude. This coupled with the helpfulness and usefulness of the people who live there can, at the very least give you a supporting cast full of people to put in danger to send Superman charging to the rescue of, but more ideally, can give Superman a care for everyone in the city because the whole city supports him. A little rub-it-in cutscene when a civvie dies not unlike the cutscenes when Batman dies in Arkham and you can make people feel like Superman when they fail to protect the city, which means they get to feel like Superman when they succeed, and even when the city or the people in it are merely threatened. When they see their people doing well, they get to feel that sense of accomplishment because without them, the city would not be what it is... and vice versa. The main emotion the player gets is not their ability to instill fear, but their ability to inspire. That spreading Superman around makes the common man better able to make their world a better place. And it doesn't get much more meaningful than that as far as video game mechanics are concerned.

From there?

Much of the fun of these things are the pipe dreams that follow. I already heard someone say Supergirl DLC. The idea of this whole affair being multiplayer (Supergirl, Steel, Superboy FTW!), would be glorious. People are talking about a Justice League game, but then we get into what all is involved in creating a Flash Game, and a Green Lantern Game. It is possible to make a game where they all play the same (like Justice League: Heroes or Injustice: Gods Among Us) and some people just enjoy the thrill of having them all together, but the true pipe dream is a game where all their different playstyles happen in the same place. Not sure about the whole going up to the Watchtower to 'prep' I read earlier, that sounds REALLY MMO-like, which isn't a problem, in theory, I don't think, but it's a whole extra world removed from what's possible at the moment. The alternative, a Batman Arkham game where all the characters are 'flavored' to have gadget/powers of their comics counterparts... could be a thing... but I personally would enjoy a game starring a solo hero that really captured who they were than a game where heroes play generically so they can all be together. I've had enough of that, personally.

So... those are my thoughts. Hopefully I didn't rain on your parade to hard. I'm not a real game designer, so I could certainly be wrong, or simply not have understood your vision clearly. I really appreciate you making this thread and putting so much thought into. Kudos again.

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#224 Edited by MercinWithAMouth (947 posts) - - Show Bio
@hypester said:

Okay, first of all, OP, ALL of the Kudos to you. This was very detailed and comprehensive and you address a whole load of great ideas. Instead of making my comparable thread, I think I might just throw my ideas in here with you, if you don't mind. Now keep in mind, I'm kinda holding the Arkham series as the golden standard, not in gameplay, but in the way gameplay is implemented, so if that's not the angle you're going for, keep that in mind.

Thanks. I held the Arkham games as a standard as well. Much of this was inspired by them.

Concern - Flight Combat

This is probably one of the trickier things to get right, and one of the biggest, since a lot of the combat comes this way, making it engrossing and intuitive would be necessary to give it the same kind of cache that the Arkham games and their splendid combat have. Like it or not, that is the comparison to be drawn. Managing several different modes of combat, the beloved QTE as well makes it seem unlikely or difficult for combat to be something that is freeing and engaging and more likely something that causes attacks to make you look at your controller instead of the screen. I would suggest for combat relying on a couple of much more simple mechanics, such as force and positioning, using various powers as triggers for the environment and bosses and such.

I think you misunderstand this. This is simply one of the things you can choose to do when combating your enemies. Compare it to the Batmobile in Arkham Knight, but not as forced and with less depth. I'd say even that's too much; It's somewhere between a combat feature like the Shadow Strike in Shadow of Mordor and the Batmobile in Arkham Knight for me. As for the QTE, I believe you're definitely wrong. I wouldn't be looking at my controller if I needed to move the analog stick to the center of a circle on the screen. The same goes for other QTE solutions, like mashing a button repetitively (I personally dislike this for most QTEs). I don't feel the controls are too complex given the fact that the same could be said about many games until you get a feel for it, Arkham games being a great example.

Concern - Lots of Controls

This is connected to the issue of the number of controls and options and powers and the different ways they work. Even something as simple as punching charging but leaping not requires a sort of piecemeal learning the same way we know though and tough don't sound anything alike. The Arkham games (I know, I know) took all of the disparate parts of Batman's arsenal and made switching between them pretty simple. I would take virtually all of his powers: Heat Vision, Cold Breath, Speed Perception, Super Singing, and whatever else you want to unlock, all to the same buttons. Perhaps the quickfire functionality you talk about could be really cool, but the idea of these are all things I have that I can point and hit people with seems really fitting.

I can see how you'd think this, but I have to disagree. Arkham Knight has far more in terms of controls compared to this. You could look at the control format for numerous games on paper and it looks like too much. I even have several powers bound to the D-Pad much like the Arkham series. You hit the same one twice for the more powerful version of that power, at a greater cost. I'd say that's pretty simple, especially after playing Superman Returns.

Also, from what I can get with the "all to the same buttons" it seems like you're saying you'd use the same one to cycle through the powers? I'd argue that's more difficult than my way.

Concern - Clark Kent Playability

The changing into the civilian guise is a much desired part of these games, but it's also a bit of a pipe dream, in terms of creating meaningful gameplay there while also managing a superhero's worth of content. The Spider-Man games have done a nice nod to it by allowing you to walk around in the Daily Bugle or Aunt May's house to trigger missions, and even the Arkham games had a nice series where you are Batman in a Bruce Wayne skin, but all in all, it could easily be a time sink with little meaningful payoff. Stealthing as Clark to get information doesn't mean so much when the guy has super hearing and can overhear anything he wants. The more cinematic reason for CK, to ask questions, loses its efficacy without some kind of engaging question system. Doable, but it's a bit of a derailing from the core Superman experience.

The only problem I have with the Clark Kent gameplay is that being able to do it at any time makes being Clark less interesting. I originally had that persona exclusive to side missions, which is certainly feasible. The quality of those missions is important though. I suppose switching between the 2 freely would be a welcome reward for beating the game.

"Stealthing as Clark to get information doesn't mean so much when the guy has super hearing and can overhear anything he wants."

I think this is a little close-minded, as it's very situational. There would be reasons in place to make sense of things like this. For example, the information he's going after isn't being talked about and is hidden somewhere in the area. It could be behind lead, or stored in a computer. I'd say the most difficult part is explaining why he is using his alter ego to get that work done.

Add on: Boss Fights

There aren't many enemies that Superman should be in a fight with, imho. I liked the idea of the ease of thugs being played for comedy. I would analogize encounters with thugs, whether holding up a bank or driving a getaway car, or whatever to triggering something with your batarang in the Arkham games. Really simple, just hit the right place and you're done. You could do Intergang as mooks, but that can get old quick. They'd work better, imho, as a boss fight than as a perennial foe scattered throughout metropolis turning Superman into another guy who goes around hte city fighting mooks, except these mooks have superguns! The biggest innovation/suggestion I would offer to someone making a Superman game is that all the fights should be boss fights. In this way, Shadow of the Colossus might be a better benchmark for pacing the game than anything like Arkham. There are, ostensibly, enough foes ot make this happen, the ones you named: Parasite, Zod (and Ursa, Non, and Faora), Metallo, Livewire, Armored Luthor, perhaps Doomsday and Brainiac if the story can handle it in a cohesive way, Toyman, as suggested, along with others like Solomon Grundy (perhaps amped), Bizarro, Atomic Skull, Amazo, Maxima, Lobo, Mongul, Manchester Black, Despero, White Martians... the list actually does go on quite a bit before we even get to Darkseid and all his lieutenants and parademons, or Ultraman and the Crime Syndicate or Starro-ed versions of the Justice League. It's a lot, really...

I felt the idea behind normal thugs is to be able to solve the problem with comedic ease. I originally had Intergang involved as thugs before I updated it. I actually meant to mention them but there are things I forget to include because there's a lot to handle. I think they could be interesting given what you could do with the weapons. As for them getting boring, I get where you're coming from but I disagree as long as you have variety with them and other enemy types (pawns of someone like Metallo or Toyman (Toyman being another villain I had meant to include)). I agree there are many villains to pick from. I feel the pacing is highly dependent on a number of things, it'd have to be discussed based on those, in a larger group.

Add on: A World Without Borders

A huge challenge with a Superman game is the expectation that he will be able to go anywhere and do anything at the speed of light. This is a Donnerverse thing and that expectation really isn't going anywhere, no matter how many times a Superman that is merely ultra-powerful without being all-powerful is portrayed, because the THEME of Superman is that he can do anything, even if any particular incarnation cannot. And while I think (hope) players will be able to cope with the idea that Superman doesn't virtually teleport wherever he wants and defeats any issue with the press of a button, it does mean players will want to fly anywhere and, the rub: feel UNSUPERMANLIKE if they cannot. The Glass Jar in the proposed game is every bit as obnoxious as Kryptonite fog, or whatever else you can

imagine to tell the ultimate power fantasy that he really isn't any more free than... Batman.

I wouldn't say this is really relevant. That wasn't one of the complaints people had about something like Superman Returns, which was an open world Superman game. As long as you have a big enough map to accommodate for a flight speed that's exhilarating, they seem happy. You don't have to go anywhere in the world or anywhere other than Metropolis to feel like Superman. It's all a matter of doing Superman right. Though being able to go anywhere is a cool thought, it's a pipe-dream.

The solution, ideally, would be a procedurally generated universe to fly around in. This is completely untenable... but I would like to imagine that, if these areas are implemented with the purpose of being largely generic and intended to be mapless. An alternative would be to have each of the borders of the city take you to a location: Smallville, The Fortress of Solitude, the Ocean, Space... and leave the Ocean and Space as the empty mapless adrift places with nothing to do but fly around in emptiness or go back. Instead of invisible walls (or plot walls), simply allow them to go out into the emptiness and turn back of their own accord. And naturally any smaller place you go to: Smallville, the FOS, going to the edge of those maps asks you if you'd like to return to metropolis. Many players will still feel cheated that they can't fulfill their superman dreams of going anywhere and doing nothing, but most could be brokered into staying immersed if its done well.

Yeah, the procedural generation of a universe isn't feasible or a good idea for Superman. I think that would ultimately hurt the whole "feeling like Superman" goal too. That's more Green Lantern's thing. As for things like the Fortress and Space, I've already had those as places you go after flying past borders. I think having the Ocean and Space being map-less, content-less areas is a bad call. I'd have no reason to go there except to play in the water or to meander through empty space. I'd expect people to even complain about that. Places like Smallville make more sense for obvious reasons. I didn't include it because I don't want to be superfluous. As for going back to Metropolis when going to the edge of the map, I believe I've had that as well.

Add on: Flight Trigger

The challenge with flight is that its boring. You just press a button and go. What makes flight in something like Just Cause or Prototype or Saints Row IV interesting is that it's not really flight at all... it's 'falling... with style!' This gliding and jumping creates an interactivity in the game, even if you're just traversing the gameworld. Contrast with flight in a superhero MMO like City of Heroes where you set the flight button, and then go to get a sandwich. Because flight is just a straight line. Arguably one of the best Superman Games I've ever played is... Lego Batman 2. There's something not only chillingly awesome when you take to the skies to the John Williams Score, but the sky is litered with details, lights in the distance act as infinitely tall landscape, or airscape in this case for you to interact with. I would certainly litter the world with clouds and lights and floaty fun things to play with, but most importantly flight would be a bit like jumping through the air, as the player aims and charges bursts to send them hurtling through the sky. As such, doing the up, up and away is an analog decision instead of more digital, and further, learning to turn can not only be extremely rewarding but allow for some really interesting navigation and turning challenges when combined with speed perception-styled super speed.

I agree flight can be boring but that's only if it sucks, like in DCUO. In that game you can fly and go get a sandwich, but not if you have to sit there and move the character/hold a button to fly at supersonic speeds ala Superman Returns. I ultimately don't feel this is a problem because the compliment you hear the most regarding Superman Returns is that the flight was fun. Soaring through the skies at speeds exceeding 800 mph is awesome. Seeing how far the hardware has come since then, I think we could make flight feel even better and look visually stunning. It could be faster, feel more powerful, etc. The skies could be far denser and filled with clouds compared to Superman Returns. I agree that there should be something to make flight more interesting, giving it more purpose so that you're not simply flying across the map (one of the reasons I have Flight Combat). There's a number of things that could be done, the most obvious and prominent being races.

Add on: Feeling Like Superman

My greatest contribution would be working out a system whereby the player feels the need to protect the city in the same way Superman does. The whole endeavor can easily turn into a very unwieldy escort mission whereby the player hates their need to protect every silly little polygon and that the city, and its health meter and failstates are a burden to the player being truly free. The answer I think, would be to create the kind of bond that makes a great escort character. The kind we see from the girl in the Walking Dead video game, from Elizabeth in Bioshock Inifinite, and even in the Companion Cube. This essentially boils down to great characterization, helpful characters, and not getting in the way. To this end, the supporting cast of the city would be chief, with Lois,Jimmy, Dan Turpin and Emil Hamilton representing the most important aspects of protecting Metropolis, perhaps dovetailed by everyone from Bibbo Bibbowski to Cat Grant to Maggie Sawyer, John Henry Irons, Natasha Irons, and pretty much anyone you can shake a stick at representing and personifying how their section of the city helps you when you protect it. Combine this with the building repair/help mechanic that you suggest and the building destruction perhaps left behind by the Kryptonians in the first battle and you can create an environment where the player is the one who (perhaps with Luthor's help, mwahaha!) builds the city, and thus they feel an ownership to protect it in the same way as someone building a city in SimCity might. Same idea with Ma and Lana in Smallville or Krypto and Eradicator in the Fortress of Solitude. This coupled with the helpfulness and usefulness of the people who live there can, at the very least give you a supporting cast full of people to put in danger to send Superman charging to the rescue of, but more ideally, can give Superman a care for everyone in the city because the whole city supports him. A little rub-it-in cutscene when a civvie dies not unlike the cutscenes when Batman dies in Arkham and you can make people feel like Superman when they fail to protect the city, which means they get to feel like Superman when they succeed, and even when the city or the people in it are merely threatened. When they see their people doing well, they get to feel that sense of accomplishment because without them, the city would not be what it is... and vice versa. The main emotion the player gets is not their ability to instill fear, but their ability to inspire. That spreading Superman around makes the common man better able to make their world a better place. And it doesn't get much more meaningful than that as far as video game mechanics are concerned.

You make a great point here. It is a BIG problem when you give the city health and have random events popping up, asking you to do something. While flying above buildings in Superman Returns something bad could happen, robots attacking the city for example, and you'd have to fight them or the city would "die". I got rid of the city life is for that reason, it's a burden on the player and hurts the freedom one should have and feel. I think the way I'd do it is shorten the proximity needed before it confirms you're participating in that event, and have them pop up away from you instead of where you are. I'd also have Superman hearing police scanners, so that if the player chose not to go to to some, it's implied that the proper authorities take care of it. The same thing was done in Arkham Origins as a way of alerting you so you can "beat the Cops to it". It helps the player feel like they have a choice without making them feel bad for choosing not to take part. I don't think you need to try and force the player to do these things though, as they'd have incentive for XP, not wanting to go through a loading screen, simply not wanting to die (if it's ultimately decided for Superman to have health), or enjoy the game/gameplay enough to do them and want to progress. I don't see this as a problem because in a Batman game or Spider-Man game, odds are the player isn't going to stand there and let someone die. Even if they did, I love your idea of having the "rub-it-in" cutscene because of the reaction those get in the Arkham games. I also love your thoughts on the supporting cast helping the player to love the city. I seriously applaud you for it. This is one of the BIGGEST, most important things for a Superman game.

From there?

Much of the fun of these things are the pipe dreams that follow. I already heard someone say Supergirl DLC. The idea of this whole affair being multiplayer (Supergirl, Steel, Superboy FTW!), would be glorious. People are talking about a Justice League game, but then we get into what all is involved in creating a Flash Game, and a Green Lantern Game. It is possible to make a game where they all play the same (like Justice League: Heroes or Injustice: Gods Among Us) and some people just enjoy the thrill of having them all together, but the true pipe dream is a game where all their different playstyles happen in the same place. Not sure about the whole going up to the Watchtower to 'prep' I read earlier, that sounds REALLY MMO-like, which isn't a problem, in theory, I don't think, but it's a whole extra world removed from what's possible at the moment. The alternative, a Batman Arkham game where all the characters are 'flavored' to have gadget/powers of their comics counterparts... could be a thing... but I personally would enjoy a game starring a solo hero that really captured who they were than a game where heroes play generically so they can all be together. I've had enough of that, personally.

I think having those characters be playable is great, but I don't think multiplayer is a good idea. For a Justice League game, I could see it being multiplayer and for them to have different play styles (considerably different). I don't personally believe that to be a pipe-dream. I'm not sure who said something about prepping, but I know I've thought about being able to prep as Batman in a JL game as a way of making him unique when compared to his super-powered allies. I see that as more of an RPG-like thing as opposed to MMO.

So... those are my thoughts. Hopefully I didn't rain on your parade to hard. I'm not a real game designer, so I could certainly be wrong, or simply not have understood your vision clearly. I really appreciate you making this thread and putting so much thought into. Kudos again.

Not even a light drizzle, my friend. I think you mostly misunderstood how I see it. Thank you for your feedback. Much love.

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#225 Edited by MercinWithAMouth (947 posts) - - Show Bio

Happy Birthday my beautiful thread. I love you.

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#226 Edited by MercinWithAMouth (947 posts) - - Show Bio

What on Earth..? This doubled in views over the past couple of weeks..? How..?

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#227 Posted by Hypester (133 posts) - - Show Bio

Maybe the guys making the game are checking your stuff, eh?

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#228 Posted by ThePreface (1436 posts) - - Show Bio

A marriage of Dragon Ball Xenoverse and Arkham Knight. Make it happen WB.

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#229 Posted by MercinWithAMouth (947 posts) - - Show Bio
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#230 Posted by XLR87T3 (9820 posts) - - Show Bio

Even Lego games have Superman use all his powers. It's not impossible.

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#231 Posted by MercinWithAMouth (947 posts) - - Show Bio
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#232 Posted by TheIncredibleSuperHulk8642 (4514 posts) - - Show Bio
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#233 Posted by XLR87T3 (9820 posts) - - Show Bio
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#234 Posted by MercinWithAMouth (947 posts) - - Show Bio

@xlr87t3: What about? Haha

@theincrediblesuperhulk8642 Almost everything I know is in my reddit post: https://www.reddit.com/r/DCcomics/comments/4cnimu/wb_games_montreals_superman_game_everything_i/

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#235 Posted by XLR87T3 (9820 posts) - - Show Bio
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#236 Posted by TheIncredibleSuperHulk8642 (4514 posts) - - Show Bio

@mercinwithamouth: Thanks. I'm really anxious for E3. Really hope they announce the game if it's real there. That long with a New God of War would make my year.

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#237 Posted by Lvenger (36338 posts) - - Show Bio

@mercinwithamouth: You really think we'll hear an official confirmation announcement about a Superman game for this year's E3?

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#238 Posted by MercinWithAMouth (947 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger: Nah, I doubt it. I think we'll see him close to E3, but in Injustice 2 and not a solo game. I wouldn't personally expect it till next year in terms of announcements.

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#239 Posted by Lvenger (36338 posts) - - Show Bio

@mercinwithamouth: When was Injustice 2 announced? Or is it going to be announced since the first Injustice was incredibly popular and well received that a sequel is obviously inevitable?

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#240 Posted by MercinWithAMouth (947 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger: I wanna say it was confirmed to get a sequel a year and a half ago at comic-con, or something like that. NetherRealm Studios has released all of their games 2 years apart in April, always announcing their games the summer prior. It's that time again, and it only makes sense to be Injustice given the first installment's success, the confirmation of a sequel that long ago, and that it's too soon for another Mortal Kombat.

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#241 Edited by MercinWithAMouth (947 posts) - - Show Bio

It is pretty interesting that I got 10,000 views on this in just under a year after I made it. Then I tell an employee from WB Games Montreal about it and it rockets to 30,000 views within 2 months. Then within a month after that it's at 50k. I don't touch it, but then I decide to bump it and it goes back to the front page on the Superman forums. Then the hundreds of views I was getting per day stop in their tracks.

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#242 Edited by MercinWithAMouth (947 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump! Just updated the post again. Here are the patch notes. More changes to come!

  • Added details to developer choices.
  • Added details for Superman's appearance, including photoshopped image.
  • Added details to "Overpowered" - The misconception that Superman is invincible. Added the capacity for Kryptonians to be harmed, details regarding Superman's high tendancy to hold back, and how that could be utilized to have moments of awe and power. Added a video example for the latter.
  • Dropped concept related to health only being an active mechanic under certain circumstances in the game. Cutting this helps maintain a consistency to the gameplay, as I feel it would be seen as a negative element in-practice. Superman possessing a health bar in the game makes complete sense, is ideal for game-making, and is helpful in terms of not complicating things. Also added details for my reasoning for a health bar and how the permanent implementation of this could have a positive impact on helping the character/player feel more powerful via upgrades as well as providing a sense a progression when gaining strength back throughout the earlier story.
  • Changed ""Zero" to Hero"" - The ability to play as Clark Kent, but then switch via a spinning/blur animation to become Superman. It is now a feature that is unlocked only after the game is beaten, unlocks a Clark Kent skin, and the feature itself is usable in New Game +. Provided the following as reasoning: "After much thought, I've decided to make this feature something that's unlocked after the game is beaten, while also being a usable feature in New Game +, and unlocking a Clark Kent skin. This is a Superman game, and while the Clark Kent "persona" is a very important part of the character, I feel it would detract from the Superman experience. I do believe there should be an important segment that is played using this alter-ego, somewhat like Arkham City did with Bruce Wayne. Having the feature teased after the segment is over, by switching to Superman. Possibly something that happens at the beginning of the game."
  • Added details to "Upgrades".
  • Dropped "Sundip" - a mechanic that would have been unlocked later where via seamless cutscene you go to bath in solar radiation, close to the sun. After much thought, I feel it's really not worth it. It sounds infeasible to an extent and while it would make for a great moment in the story, the mechanic itself seems like too much for what it gives to the player.
  • Added a summary under "Powers and Skills" referred to as "Powers". It's purpose is to help the reader understand how the a lot of the gameplay is going to work in terms of most special abilities because I believe the section to be a bit overwhelming.
  • Added that your perception will slow down when using a charged punch on a grabbed enemy so that the player can properly aim where they want the enemy to go without having to worry as much about other enemies interfering.
  • Added a detailed description of a Flight Combat scenario.
  • Removed Natural Disasters from the concept entirely. I feel it's just too unrealistic, even for this. I will keep fires, but to have earthquakes, tornadoes, meteor showers, floods/tsunamis? Let alone within what's supposed to be the span of a day? It's too much. There is more than enough variety in Heroic Acts. So much that having the Natural Disasters only seems even more pointless given it's somewhat redundant as well as a waste of time. It would be a pretty big feature, like Heroic Acts but on a much larger scale. I don't feel it would be worth the time and resources that could be spent polishing the game or making other content better.
  • Added a potential motive for Metallo as well as possible character traits.
  • Added Intergang to the "Villains" list. This is actually something I had intended on doing when I originally made the post, but I had forgotten about it almost completely. I had the same problem with Mxy, until I remembered and included it when I updated it later on.
  • Brainiac will be something more akin to the "Superman: Brainiac/Superman Unbound" iteration. Replaced his image to help this.
  • Added that Jimmy has his signal watch.
  • Krypto is staying for now, though I may drop him.
  • Added a story arc for Dan Turpin as well as how his task-force plays a role in common gameplay aspects.
  • Dropped the an addition to "Destruction" regarding construction workers. Their roles has been replaced with Brainiac drones until after the game is beaten.
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#243 Posted by RedWhiteAndBlueSupes (175 posts) - - Show Bio

with the current gen consoles and the high cost of developing games it seems like games like this usually get shoved under the bus, Superman game on 3DS or maybe the new Nintendo console would be more realistic, there's just less and less games being produced these days, Justice League Heroes was the last really great DC Universe game and that was what like eight years ago?

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#244 Posted by MercinWithAMouth (947 posts) - - Show Bio
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#245 Edited by RedWhiteAndBlueSupes (175 posts) - - Show Bio

@mercinwithamouth: No,but( not including fighting games or arcades) JLH was the last GOOD DC Universe game featuring superman as a playable character, also Superman on Sega Genesis was actually a really good game, hard, but good, and did a good job of showcasing his different powers although in an arcade style format, there was an arcade only Justice League game that came out in like 2009 or 2010 darn its name eludes me but it was pretty good too. Anyways I like some of the RPG elements you mentioned above, personally I don't see a console release of a new Superman game (don't take it personally man that's just my economic assessment of the gaming industry right now) but I would be happy with a new MOBA or open-world DC Universe MMORPG

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#246 Posted by MercinWithAMouth (947 posts) - - Show Bio

@redwhiteandbluesupes: Also wrong, as Lego Batman 2 did pretty great with him. He's also in Lego Batman 3! Justice League Heroes was okay.

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#248 Posted by MercinWithAMouth (947 posts) - - Show Bio
  • Added an animation I thought of regarding Super Hearing.
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#250 Edited by MercinWithAMouth (947 posts) - - Show Bio
  • Removed "Space" and added to "Fortress of Solitude" as it seemed redundant, when you could implement the "Pay Respects" equivalent into the Fortress. Easily making it more meaningful and practical at the same time.
  • Getting to the Fortress within the context of the story provided made no sense, as Metropolis is bottled and you are trapped within it. The Fortress would have to appear after restoring Metropolis or by other means depending on the story.

Contents Removed:

Space

"I think of this as a special place for Superman. The player can fly here by heading skyward and possibly hitting a point that activates a seamless loading screen of the them flying out of Earth's atmosphere and having Superman float there. I feel this could be much like Bruce's Crime Alley feature in Arkham City. Very inspiring music playing while floating above Earth and maybe having a slight green glow off in the distant of space that represents Krypton. Flying towards the North Pole will take the player to the Fortress, while flying towards anywhere else will send them back to Metropolis."