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#1 Edited by SaintWildcard (21797 posts) - - Show Bio

Round 1

TOO MUCH CHEESE AND MAYO!
TOO MUCH CHEESE AND MAYO!

I should do a long review, but I gotta shit out an essay for a class tonight. In short, if you enjoyed the cheesy tone of the show before and the Christopher Reeve's movies, you're in luck! This is just the Superman for you. As a Mexican though, even I haven't seen this much cheese on nachos or a quesadilla like I have with this episode. I lost more respect for him after his handshake with Jimmy(sure this Jimmy is black, but that handshake was wack) than most of you did after the MoS necksnap. That being said, I do give the show props for atleast trying to make them bros and not have Jimmy treat Clark like his Senpai. Just like pretty much 90% of the incarnations and stories, he's just an other middle class white guy with about as much country in him a..... I can't think of a good rip, but my point is that this Superman is a farmboy in name only.

But enough about ripping on his whiteness, the episode was a giant "Eh" with "ugh" jokes and an "Eh" set up, adding up to a giant "Meh". One thing I will say though is that the show must have blown through half of it's special effects budget with this episode. Considering that their budget has been slashed with the move, I wonder how following episodes will fair.

Round 2

Oh sweet  Jesus take me now
Oh sweet Jesus take me now

Well, atleast it's over... for now. I just can't even you guys. This guy is a narc, plane and simple. Cavill was drinking beer like a man, but this narc doesn't even drink even though it doesn't affect him. That being said, the episode action and story was a bit better, although the characters still sucked. I am surprised that this show is getting 22 episodes even though they must spend more on their CGI.

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#2 Posted by jumpstart55 (11025 posts) - - Show Bio
  • Pretty much what i expected pure corn(Haven't seen the episode yet btw)
  • Why cant DC find find a balance between cheese and grit?..Why is he either an emotional brooding roided out Sob or a Corny af cheese if you please lameo...Look at Marvels,They manage with Cap finding a decent balance between grit and humor, why cant DC learn........Ugh.....
  • They seemed to get it right(Almost to perfection)with Smallville's Superman but somewhere along the line they lost track of how to do Supermans personality...Smh.
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#3 Posted by SaintWildcard (21797 posts) - - Show Bio
  • Pretty much what i expected pure corn(Haven't seen the episode yet btw)
  • Why cant DC find find a balance between cheese and grit?..Why is he either an emotional brooding roided out Sob or a Corny af cheese if you please lameo...Look at Marvels,They manage with Cap finding a decent balance between grit and humor, why cant DC learn........Ugh.....
  • They seemed to get it right(Almost to perfection)with Smallville's Superman but somewhere along the line they lost track of how to do Supermans personality...Smh.

I think my main problem with the show is how fake all these people feel. None of them feel like real people and the acting is always so hammy and over the top. The CW should take some hints from the iZombie show runners. The characters and the romances are actually well written. If nothing else atleast get them to show the Superhero shows how to write a convincing romance.

Yeah, I really liked Clark from Smallville. It was the closest thing before the New 52 that got me interested in Superman.

I may break the episode down more later on.

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#4 Posted by Hocko1999_VIRUS (2970 posts) - - Show Bio

It was a good contast to the DCEU version.

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#5 Edited by ZariusII (5648 posts) - - Show Bio

TOO MUCH CHEESE AND MAYO!
TOO MUCH CHEESE AND MAYO!

I should do a long review, but I gotta shit out an essay for a class tonight. In short, if you enjoyed the cheesy tone of the show before and the Christopher Reeve's movies, you're in luck! This is just the Superman for you. As a Mexican though, even I haven't seen this much cheese on nachos or a quesadilla like I have with this episode. I lost more respect for him after his handshake with Jimmy(sure this Jimmy is black, but that handshake was wack) than most of you did after the MoS necksnap. That being said, I do give the show props for atleast trying to make them bros and not have Jimmy treat Clark like his Senpai. Just like pretty much 90% of the incarnations and stories, he's just an other middle class white guy with about as much country in him a..... I can't think of a good rip, but my point is that this Superman is a farmboy in name only.

But enough about ripping on his whiteness, the episode was a giant "Eh" with "ugh" jokes and an "Eh" set up, adding up to a giant "Meh". One thing I will say though is that the show must have blown through half of it's special effects budget with this episode. Considering that their budget has been slashed with the move, I wonder how following episodes will fair.

You mean this had a genuine Superman in it? Sold.

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#6 Posted by Stahlflamme (5733 posts) - - Show Bio
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#7 Posted by UltimateSMfan (2377 posts) - - Show Bio

@saintwildcard: Really Saint? Really? Watched any episodes of the first season? You'd know what to expect. Some episodes of the Flash are like game of thrones compared to Supergirl which really pains me to say because i love the Super family so much.

I watched the episode out of curiosity, already gone up a belt size with the amount of cheese i consumed. Expected it though. Though i cringed hard every time Cat screamed Ms. Teschmacher... Gene Hackman she is not.

Favourite part was when Supes entered the DEO and everyone shut up, and liked Lena.

Anyway, I didn't find Tyler's Superman too bad though he comes across very young, at least they acknowledged that. And to me no one holds a candle to Reeves' Superman, i watched Superman the movie again just last week and personally don't feel anything can be counted as that cheesy cause it all fits for the times.

@zariusii said:

You mean this had a genuine Superman in it? Sold.

What is that if i may ask?

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#8 Posted by SaintWildcard (21797 posts) - - Show Bio

It was a good contast to the DCEU version.

MoS? Nope

BvS? Yup

@zariusii said:

You mean this had a genuine Superman in it? Sold.

Sure little guy

*pats on the head*

Favourite part was when Supes entered the DEO and everyone shut up, and liked Lena.

Anyway, I didn't find Tyler's Superman too bad though he comes across very young, at least they acknowledged that. And to me no one holds a candle to Reeves' Superman, i watched Superman the movie again just last week and personally don't feel anything can be counted as that cheesy cause it all fits for the times.

I thought that was cool..... and then he just started giving everyone handshakes, dude might as well have given everyone high fives.

I like Tyler and used to watch him on Teen Wolf, so I don't blame him but the material. And I don't think him being young was in anyway part of his character, the dude was pretty much fully formed in it without any flaws to name.

To be fair dude, you have a nostalgia for that flick, if I were to take a drink every time something cheesy happened, I would overdose pretty quickly. And saying it's not cheesy cus it's with the times is like saying that Song of the South isn't racist.

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#9 Posted by UltimateSMfan (2377 posts) - - Show Bio

To be fair dude, you have a nostalgia for that flick, if I were to take a drink every time something cheesy happened, I would overdose pretty quickly. And saying it's not cheesy cus it's with the times is like saying that Song of the South isn't racist.

For the times may be the wrong expression, inspired by the silver age is better.(Even then to me it holds up quite nicely)

Maybe i am nostalgic. But there's something about it, and i'll only say for the first Superman movie. Maybe it's the acting, They sold me on the silly parts.

Supergirl doesn't.

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#10 Posted by TheExile285 (4353 posts) - - Show Bio
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#11 Posted by SaintWildcard (21797 posts) - - Show Bio

For the times may be the wrong expression, inspired by the silver age is better.(Even then to me it holds up quite nicely)

Maybe i am nostalgic. But there's something about it, and i'll only say for the first Superman movie. Maybe it's the acting, They sold me on the silly parts.

Supergirl doesn't.

I can dig it

I want to clarify that I'm not trying to shit on the CR version. It feels like it, but I'm not trying too.

I'm also not trying to say that this episode was complete dogshit, the real-ish review is at the end where I just say this episode is a giant "meh". This Superman won't be replacing any of my favorite versions though. I wish Tyler the best, and if I keep watching it will be because this show is in Guilty Pleasure Territory

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#12 Posted by kiba (3733 posts) - - Show Bio

Shotgun to the mouth? Standard cv overreacting. Okay it was cheesy, that's the whole show. It was light and fun and yes some of it reminded me of Chris Reeves so in my book that was a bonus. Also loved when he walked into the DEO and everyone stopped and just stared as well as his humor and good nature. Not perfect but all in all pretty good. I call Tyler a good fit for the role.

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#13 Edited by SaintWildcard (21797 posts) - - Show Bio

@kiba said:

Shotgun to the mouth? Standard cv overreacting. Okay it was cheesy, that's the whole show. It was light and fun and yes some of it reminded me of Chris Reeves so in my book that was a bonus. Also loved when he walked into the DEO and everyone stopped and just stared as well as his humor and good nature. Not perfect but all in all pretty good. I call Tyler a good fit for the role.

That was done for comedic effect. I mean.... do you not know who I am? I'm the goddamn Wildcard! I may not be as knowledgeable about Superman, but I'm definitely the funniest out of the Top 10

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#14 Edited by kiba (3733 posts) - - Show Bio
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#15 Posted by redwingx (1359 posts) - - Show Bio

It was garbage.

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#16 Posted by SaintWildcard (21797 posts) - - Show Bio

@kiba said:

COmpared to any of the other top 10 posters. I'm Dave Chappelle. Learn your place rookie! Respect your betters!

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#17 Posted by kiba (3733 posts) - - Show Bio

@saintwildcard: shotgun isn't funny. Saying you finally found enough cheese to go with all the whine you lot have brought since rebirth started is far funnier.

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#18 Posted by SaintWildcard (21797 posts) - - Show Bio

@kiba said:

@saintwildcard: shotgun isn't funny. Saying you finally found enough cheese to go with all the whine you lot have brought since rebirth started is far funnier.

Heh *pats on the head* nice try kid, but dad jokes are not funny. Leave the jokes to the professionals.

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#19 Posted by Ready_4_Madness (15924 posts) - - Show Bio

cheesy is kind of what they're going for.

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#21 Posted by deactivated-5c9535a734784 (2578 posts) - - Show Bio
This was my reaction watching the episode.
This was my reaction watching the episode.

Okay this is all opinion, it has no bearing in whatever you like, this is just something I feel.

It's been a hard year to be a Superman fan; BVS came out and stepped all on his cape then kicked him to the curb like a prom night dumpster baby. But rebirth is showing promise and Supergirl reminded me what Superman was to me. The paragon of hope and good, no matter what. But he was also human, he showed experience in dealing with things as comes with the experience and even something as simple as shaking awed people's hands was awesome. This Superman was more humanised than the DCEU could ever be. It helped that he had more lines that MOS and BVS put together. He could express things and he even acted like a cool older brother for Kara. This was Superman. For me, this was everything I've ever wanted Superman to be and the best thing is that it was unabashedly Superman. No pulling punches, no whining, no brooding, he was Superman. Charming, kind and caring. For me that's all I wanted. So if that counts me in the minority, I'm good. But at least I have this episode of Supergirl to look to if the DCEU continues to fail me.

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#22 Edited by SaintWildcard (21797 posts) - - Show Bio

@soldierofel: well.. Youre allowed to be wrong, that is your right

Edit: I do question your definition of "cool older brother". Cus dude was a narc

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#23 Posted by wrucebayne (568 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm not quite eager to see CW's take on Superman. Just give me a supercut of all the Martian Manhunter scenes and I'll be good.

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#24 Posted by kiba (3733 posts) - - Show Bio

@saintwildcard: well that's one thing we can agree on, dad jokes aren't funny since some dad's are...well for lack of a better word, super. A better joke would be ew52 sm/ww just for example. I'm sure a true professional will be along soon and you keep at it but I'd advise you to keep your day job. Until then enjoy your whine.

@soldierofel: I think you said it very well. Don't let the whining distract you.

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#25 Edited by buttersdaman000 (22776 posts) - - Show Bio

It's funny that all it takes to satisfy some people as far as Superman goes is a wink and a smile. It's like those people only understand a character at face value, never bothering to understand the underlying truths of the character that can be derived from actions or words that aren't immediately obvious. So, to them, a Superman who is levity incarnate is the only way to accurately portray a character who's supposed to represent the traditional Superman values. Nevermind the fact that the values of Superman are not dependent on his outward appearance, whether it be happy or more pensive. That being said, I don't want to undermine the importance of levity for the character. It just that I see way too many people saying Tyler is perfect as Superman for relatively superficial reasons.

Tyler Hoechlin did better than I expected, but he played a version of the character that hasn't been the consistent characterization since the ~90's~. Personally, I want more depth and range in my Superman which is why MoS was such a fresh take to me. I feel that it was the right, most perfect direction for the reintroduction of the character before the questionable decisions of BvS. I'll wait to see if this CW Superman becomes anymore than the embodiment of Reeve pandering before I resign myself to rolling my eyes at him.

That being said, I don't know how anyone can dislike Cav-El for being "out of character" then turn around and praise the characterization of Supergirl on this show. I quit after a few episodes in the first season, but has she evolved out of being a female boyscout/reeve clone? Supergirl has never been portrayed like that afaik.

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#26 Posted by NickoSaurusRex (204 posts) - - Show Bio
No Caption Provided

My reaction to supergirl

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#27 Posted by jumpstart55 (11025 posts) - - Show Bio

@jumpstart55 said:
  • Pretty much what i expected pure corn(Haven't seen the episode yet btw)
  • Why cant DC find find a balance between cheese and grit?..Why is he either an emotional brooding roided out Sob or a Corny af cheese if you please lameo...Look at Marvels,They manage with Cap finding a decent balance between grit and humor, why cant DC learn........Ugh.....
  • They seemed to get it right(Almost to perfection)with Smallville's Superman but somewhere along the line they lost track of how to do Supermans personality...Smh.

I think my main problem with the show is how fake all these people feel. None of them feel like real people and the acting is always so hammy and over the top. The CW should take some hints from the iZombie show runners. The characters and the romances are actually well written. If nothing else atleast get them to show the Superhero shows how to write a convincing romance.

Yeah, I really liked Clark from Smallville. It was the closest thing before the New 52 that got me interested in Superman.

I may break the episode down more later on.

Ill look out for it.

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#28 Posted by MyNameIsChaos (74 posts) - - Show Bio

The show may not be for the handful of people who still miss nuperman and thought batman vs superman was actually a good movie, but the show is light hearted fun with a nice pre-crisis vibe. Lot's of fun episodes.

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#29 Posted by Anna_Karenina (4509 posts) - - Show Bio

Was it cheesy? I don't think so. But I was left under the impression that the story was beating around the bush a little bit. In general, though, I did appreciate the episode.
Superman was the light-hearted Big Blue Boy Scout, a counterpoint to DCEU's incarnation of the character, which is a good contrast.
I'm especially glad that Kara is moving on from her assistant job (though I usually like her moments with Cat) and the awkward relationship with James.

Also... I can't wait to see Mon and Metallo in action. :)

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#30 Edited by JBBuc (207 posts) - - Show Bio

Ok... I just watched all three today. Flash was awful, and Arrow had a metric ton of plot holes, but Supergirl was by far the worst of them for me. I was hoping the move to the CW would balance this show out a bit, but I see they- at least for now- are going to stick to the same formula that got the show kicked off CBS.

I know that it's comparing apples to oranges, but it's hard for me not to compare the Arrowverse to the Netflix-ABC/MCU. We can talk all day long about how the CW characters would dominate in the battle forums, but watching these shows can't just be about who is the most unbeatable superhero. At the end of the day, it's about telling compelling stories that pull you in and make it easy to suspend your disbelief. I'm sorry, DC fans can talk all they want about Flash solo-ing the whole MCU, but the Marvel shows are light years ahead of DC when it comes to delivering a story.

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#32 Posted by thatguywithheadphones (19859 posts) - - Show Bio

Dude. Clark is a kinda cheesy character. Why can't you accept that.?

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#33 Posted by Lvenger (36338 posts) - - Show Bio

Wait you're Mexican and you live in Kansas.

It all adds up now.

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#34 Posted by SaintWildcard (21797 posts) - - Show Bio

Dude. Clark is a kinda cheesy character. Why can't you accept that.?

Joke Answer-Cus I'm lactose intolerant

Real Answer-So was Lex, did you like the Lex from BvS? But even if you did, characters change and grow with the times. I've seen better takes and resonate towards those more. A better point would be to say the show is cheesy and that this character blends in, to which I say "well that's why I don't watch it". Only watched it for this special event moment, but I won't follow the show and shit on it every chance I get.

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#35 Posted by buttersdaman000 (22776 posts) - - Show Bio

Dude. Clark is a kinda cheesy character. Why can't you accept that.?

Clark/Superman hasn't been "cheesy" in decades. C'mon now

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#36 Posted by linsanel_Doctor (8630 posts) - - Show Bio
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#37 Posted by kiba (3733 posts) - - Show Bio

@saintwildcard: lmao. You're mixed up. The only troll here is you. The whole thread is you trolling people that have a different opinion than yours. See that's the problem with kids like you. You THINK you know it all but you fail to understand somethings are classic, that they're timeless and you can't ever fix what isn't broken. Now why don't you stop trolling the nice people, you've had your say one the matter and go back to crying over sm/ww fan art.

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#38 Posted by Farkam (12025 posts) - - Show Bio

Image result for salt dance

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#39 Edited by SaintWildcard (21797 posts) - - Show Bio

@kiba said:

@saintwildcard: lmao. You're mixed up. The only troll here is you. The whole thread is you trolling people that have a different opinion than yours. See that's the problem with kids like you. You THINK you know it all but you fail to understand somethings are classic, that they're timeless and you can't ever fix what isn't broken. Now why don't you stop trolling the nice people, you've had your say one the matter and go back to crying over sm/ww fan art.

Incorrect. You said I was exaggerating with the shot gun gif to which I replied "Duh, that's the point in my humor". It then devolved into you saying i wasn't funny so then I questioned your humor since you're terrible with dad jokes. You drew first blood dude. Also, the difference between Ball Busting and Trolling is knowing the individual. My over the top response to Soldier is ball busting, since I know him well enough. if you notice, he's the only one I responded to when it came to giving his opinion.

I think I know a thing or two about story, since it's what I'm majoring in college. Everyone has their opinion, but it comes down to objective arguments when I debate these matters. As for you whole "classics" argument, that's a whole other thing that would take forever to break down, but considering the rebooting of 4 completely different eras and the constant changes, there is no such thing as a classic take as it's all about what you prefer. Plus, you have no idea what I want in Superman so your foolish assumption that it's just what the New 52 was as if I had no complaints about it would be ignorant on your part. I've had people say they would love to read what I would write when it comes to Superman even though we either hate each other or disagree with everything. This is me with my heads in the clouds trying to say I would be amazing, but just that you have no idea what i want in my Superman.

Heh, you keep bringing that up as if it means something. Makes you really insecure and look foolish. If you wanna get schooled in a debate about story and Sm/WW, I'll more than gladly make time for it, but don't derail this thread or converstation with this nonsense

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#40 Posted by Revan- (7959 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm not quite eager to see CW's take on Superman. Just give me a supercut of all the Martian Manhunter scenes and I'll be good.

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#41 Posted by the_stegman (40195 posts) - - Show Bio

It was a good contast to the DCEU version.

This. I like that the Arrowverse is cheesy and lighthearted while the DCEU is the more serious one. I can have my cake, and eat it too.

Moderator
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#42 Posted by kiba (3733 posts) - - Show Bio

@saintwildcard: really? you're playing the victim now? Just stop it. You're a troll plain and simple and I'm tired of trolls and crybabies. If you don't like a comic or TV show don't read it or watch it. Just move on with your day. Yes I said you, as well as most posters on cv, exaggerate and you do. See humor is subjective too and everyone has their own opinion and in my opinion you're not even a little funny. You could have just shrugged and accepted that but instead you came back all condescending and trollish. All I've seen from you is complaining since rebirth started so you can't really blame me for thinking n52 is what you want but maybe I'm mistaken about that. Okay, sorry. Although to be blunt I don't really care what you want anymore than you care what I want. And you can keep your lessons about sm/ww I've found nothing valuable in it.

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#43 Posted by SaintWildcard (21797 posts) - - Show Bio

@kiba said:

@saintwildcard: really? you're playing the victim now? Just stop it. You're a troll plain and simple and I'm tired of trolls and crybabies. If you don't like a comic or TV show don't read it or watch it. Just move on with your day. Yes I said you, as well as most posters on cv, exaggerate and you do. See humor is subjective too and everyone has their own opinion and in my opinion you're not even a little funny. You could have just shrugged and accepted that but instead you came back all condescending and trollish. All I've seen from you is complaining since rebirth started so you can't really blame me for thinking n52 is what you want but maybe I'm mistaken about that. Okay, sorry. Although to be blunt I don't really care what you want anymore than you care what I want. And you can keep your lessons about sm/ww I've found nothing valuable in it.

Victim Card- Getting Punched and then crying about it

At best it's a blame game, but I'm not playing a victim since I'm very much engaged in a debate (fight).

A better point would be to say the show is cheesy and that this character blends in, to which I say "well that's why I don't watch it". Only watched it for this special event moment, but I won't follow the show and shit on it every chance I get.

Me- 4 Hours Ago

To be fair I said by default. So I was shocked that not even then did you agree with that, but it became clear to me that you find "new 52 jabs" funny and dad jokes. So I was like "Oh, that's why!". I've been here a long time kid, and L and Squall aren't exactly known for their wisecracks.

Yes, that's the joke. It's a common persona to act like an overconfident douche. But again... in your world of cheesy dad jokes, you find that appalling.

All I do? I don't even go to threads started about issues around here, I mean... unless you haven't seen any of my stuff after the Rebirth relaunch, I've honestly tried to refrain talking about Rebirth at all only when it's about something I like (like Chinese Superman).

I said debate about SM/WW. In an objective and civilized manner.

Let's just end this, this is a boring conversation that is going nowhere

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#44 Posted by kiba (3733 posts) - - Show Bio

@saintwildcard: "Let's just end this, this is a boring conversation that is going nowhere."

Yes, let's do that. I didn't even want this conversation.

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#45 Edited by buttersdaman000 (22776 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_stegman said:
@hocko1999_virus said:

It was a good contast to the DCEU version.

This. I like that the Arrowverse is cheesy and lighthearted while the DCEU is the more serious one. I can have my cake, and eat it too.

The problem I have is that this version does just as bad as the DCEU on missing the tone of (modern) Superman. The difference, however, is that it fails at the opposite side of the spectrum. Superman has not been portrayed like that since the pre-crisis era. It's a dated characterization that seems like blatant pandering, at an over the top level, to people dissatisfied with the DCEU. Even funnier, the titular character, Supergirl, has NEVER been portrayed as she is in the show. The writers didn't even bother to characterize her correctly because, in my mind, the negative reaction to the DCEU Superman has led people to believe the Superman mythos must be pigeonholed to one type of tone and characterization template. So, for me, when I have all these threads popping up about how Supergirl gets it right, my belief that people don't actually know Superman from Adam, that the "wink and smile" characterization is all people think of him, is reinforced.....and it sucks.

And, even more funnily enough, I see these people praising that the big blue boyscout is back. So, I guess we haven't had the real Superman since the crisis??

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#46 Edited by the_stegman (40195 posts) - - Show Bio

@buttersdaman000: Well, they're obviously going for the Silver Age/Reeve Superman. The "Up, Up and Away!" Hand shakes and winks make that obvious.

Yeah, it's not modern Superman. But I'm OK with it.

Moderator
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#47 Posted by UltimateSMfan (2377 posts) - - Show Bio

Even funnier, the titular character, Supergirl, has NEVER been portrayed as she is in the show. The writers didn't even bother to characterize her correctly because, in my mind, the negative reaction to the DCEU Superman has led people to believe the Superman mythos must be pigeonholed to one type of tone and characterization template. So, for me, when I have all these threads popping up about how Supergirl gets it right, my belief that people don't actually know Superman from Adam, that the "wink and smile" characterization is all people think of him, is reinforced.....and it sucks.

That's one of my BIG grievances with the show. Like i get being cheerful and cute but they over do it to the point that she comes across like she's 12 instead of 25.

And personally i always like my Supergirl with a little attitude and hot headedness because the tragedy of krypton affected her so badly(in the comics anyway, is why i thought red lantern SG was pretty cool) but the show had her arrive on earth at a younger age and a decade before she revealed herself so that i can forgive.

I too hate the fact that people enforce the shallow wink and smile characterisation by saying it's all superman is and needs with nothing else which is complete bull and makes me mad and lessens the character, I'm kind of alright with it being here because he's just here for two episodes and not the main character, gives them a reason to get away with Superman 'being Superman' without having to really explore the character.

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#48 Posted by kiba (3733 posts) - - Show Bio

@saintwildcard: okay, so I think I may have misunderstood some of the things you said which colored my responses, it doesn't matter what, and frankly I think you misunderstood me. So I apologize. My bad. Now I'm done.

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#49 Edited by SaintWildcard (21797 posts) - - Show Bio

So this JImmy continues his descent into not being JImmy. This guy is now gonna be The Guardian. Like... why even call him JImmy? This is about as far off as Gay Black Jimmy Olson from Landis's run.

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#50 Posted by DeathandGrim (4829 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm just impressed you know of this stream

@farkam said:

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