Magic Weakness Is B.S.

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dementedtheclown

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#1  Edited By dementedtheclown

It doesnt really make sense. Why would he be weak to magic, when his powers are natural?
You can't cancel out natural powers just because your "magical". 
 
This is even worse then Kryptonite.

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Supreme Marvel

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#2  Edited By Supreme Marvel

Because magic is unnatural aka supernatural.

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Sexy Merc

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#3  Edited By Sexy Merc

It's a vulnerability. Kryptonians are invulnerable to a lot things. Magic is just one of the things they're vulnerable too.

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#4  Edited By Supreme Marvel

It's not really hard to believe that magic can affect normal beings.

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Jodin20723

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#5  Edited By Jodin20723

Superman does not have a "Weakness" to magic per say, it just effects him the same as it effect "normal" humans. The magic "weakness" is also semi-specific more so to enchanted weapons, spells and enchantments like via Zantana. In most cases superman can tend to fight certin magic via will power depending on the strength of the spell.
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mgrman5

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#6  Edited By mgrman5

Superman is vulnerable to magic, but is somewhat able to overcome some mystical abilities, but if someone with significant mystical powers were to fight him, like Doctor Strange, than that mystical user would be on pair with or even better than Superman.  
Is this similar with telepathy is Superman vulnerable to it and if so at what level; if a character with significant mental process like Jean Grey were to fight Superman will they be able to effect him mentally??

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MrDirector786

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#7  Edited By MrDirector786
@mgrman5 said:
"

Superman is vulnerable to magic, but is somewhat able to overcome some mystical abilities, but if someone with significant mystical powers were to fight him, like Doctor Strange, than that mystical user would be on pair with or even better than Superman.  
Is this similar with telepathy is Superman vulnerable to it and if so at what level; if a character with significant mental process like Jean Grey were to fight Superman will they be able to effect him mentally??

"
He has mentally been affected by Maxwell Lord and Manchester Black from what I recall.
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Omega-Man

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#8  Edited By Omega-Man
@mgrman5: 
 
Not really, sure he has been affected by Telepaths but they only could affect him mentally if he has had doubts or concerns about what is going on with his life currently. Otherwise they have no effect on him at all as his will power is far too great.
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dementedtheclown

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#9  Edited By dementedtheclown

Yeah but they act like he's human level to magic. So say capn marvel punches him, how much force is being used? Would this same punch be a death blow to a human, or is it the same thing just cancels out his super strength??

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#10  Edited By Lvenger
@dementedtheclown:  In my opinion no. The punch is the same as a punch from your typical powerhouse. The only way CM's punches can hurt Supes is if they incorporate the power of Zeus in them. There are scans of him doing this but I can't find them. Only magic attacks like calling down the lightning and the other one I mentioned are ways for CM to hurt Supes. As for the magic weakness, kryptonite is the obvious one, red sun is stupid IMO because it shouldn't really affect him it should give him superpowers because the wavelength of a red sun is no different than that of a yellow sun. Anyway, Superman needed another achilles heel aside from a hunk of green rock and magic makes sense. I mean, it's unnatural, goes against the laws of science so that makes it an ideal counter mechanism for Superman
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#11  Edited By Vitality

Magic is not his "weakness" like Kryptonite. He can just be hurt by magic.
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#12  Edited By Valtot

hears someones theory i agree with it  
Superman is not really weak to magic!

Guess what I've found everyone.
Superman is not really weak to magic. His ability to resist is totally psionic as confirmed by Byrne and others. For instance, if he believes that a Vampire can manhandle him, it becomes fact. But if he believes he can stop a magical beam intended to destroy an entire island, he does. Superman even has defeated an all powerful demon in her own mystical netherworld.

Captain Marvel and Wonder Woman, being magic-based beings, "always" use the "magic vulnerability" when they hit Superman. The fact that they don't splatter him into chunky salsa tells us this "vulnerability" is more complex than it seems on the surface. If he were "truly vulnerable" to magic, not only would he be obliterated by magical fists, he'd be deep fried by the first bolt of magical lightning that hits him. He'd actually die from death spells instead of being sent into comas.

Superman's belief structure is based on two things. Firstly, he was raised with midwestern common sense. Secondly, his Kryptonian heritage was solidly technocratic and scientifically based. His belief structure doesn't include the possibility of magic. This explains why he can be hurt by a Vampire, but he resists outright destruction by vastly superior magical forces. His subconscious kicks in his self-preservation instinct in life-threatening situations. It would make an interesting Elseworlds story if Superman had been raised in a magical culture. That way, his belief based vulnerability would be to scientific weaponry instead of magical forces. So Superman "can" resist magic and is a thoroughly selfless character. For he has been shown to resist magic when there is a grave need for it.

Some examples :

1. Early 90's Superman vs. Blaze; Superman defeats Blaze in her own hell dimension.
Stake : Jimmy's soul is about to be taken by Blaze .
This is no ordinary feat as Blaze has NEVER been beaten in her own realm. Blaze is a mystical demonic ruler who has total control over a mystical Hell. She's on a par with Neron and Satannus.

2. JLA Primeval: Superman resisted the magical and mystic energies of a Primeval God.
Stake : the JLA's evolved existence .
God power versus Superman Invulnerability.

3. Crossover, War of the Gods: Superman DEFLECTS and WEAKENS a mystical Bolt so powerful, it was designated to destroy the Greek Islands.
Stake : Millions of lives in Greece .
Although Superman was unable to completely stop it, he deflected (and resisted its destructive mystic energies) enough to save the Isles.

Some minor incidences:

4. Superman versus the Demon, Byrne era: The Demon blasts the Superman with Hellfire but causes no physical harm. Superman feels though as if it was burning in his mind and soul. He resists it enough to fling the Demon through several towers.

5. Superman as Gangbuster: Without his normal psyche intact, Superman breaks mystical bands that was restraining him.

6. Superman in Valhalla: Although he is fighting against demons in a mystical realm, he ultimately out survives the DC version of Thor, and becomes the War's number one warrior. As noted, Thor deems Superman the worthy lifter of Mjolnir, not Diana or anybody else.

The point of these examples is that at times, Superman resists magic due to some instance when he is no longer thinking about the effects on his body. He has been shown to resist even massive amounts of mystic energies because he believes that he can endure it, "and does"! Magic, and Mystical forces require faith to sustain it. The funny thing about bringing up Superman's vulnerability to magic is that everyone who says it will hurt him just says that it will, no questions asked . That's faith. But equally true is the belief that if you believe that it cannot
hurt you, it will not. That too, is faith.

Superman's mind is that of a mortal. There are many things, like a mortal, he does not understand. And magic is among them. He has been indoctrianted to believe that he has a weakness to magic, and thus when confronted by it, he automatically believes that he can be hurt by it. It is when he removes this belief (for the stakes at hand) that he overcomes magic.

The first 3 examples show this theory. The following 3 are a bit more diverse. Magic does not physically hurt Superman, but rather he says it is hurting his soul. This is indicative of the nature of one type of magic.
The second example is when Superman no longer maintains his own psyche. He no longer has this "fear" of magic and thus breaks through mystic restraining bands. The last is when he fights so long in Valhalla that he is not affected by its magical nature (or that of its creatures) any
more than WW or asgardian fighters, or even Thor. Magic is a tricky thing. It requires someone to believe in it to be effective. Belief systems have everything to do with it. And not everybody believes the same way. Superman "can" resist magic, only if he believes he can. Thus proving it is a psionic ability as with his other powers.    
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#13  Edited By AtPhantom
@Valtot said:
"Superman is not really weak to magic. His ability to resist is totally psionic as confirmed by Byrne and others. For instance, if he believes that a Vampire can manhandle him, it becomes fact. But if he believes he can stop a magical beam intended to destroy an entire island, he does. Superman even has defeated an all powerful demon in her own mystical netherworld."
Byrne's theory hasn't been canon for 20 years now. There's nothing psionic about Superman.
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Valtot

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#14  Edited By Valtot

dmn well only explanation i could actually think of for being weak to magic, i mean i get spells but magic that effects him physically hurting him i find rediculous with no real explenation, like a magic bullet to the head would kill him, but a normal bullet would just bounce of

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Jimishim12

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Bump to show he's telling the truth,

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=371890&pagenumber=103

@valtot said:

hears someones theory i agree with it

Superman is not really weak to magic!

Guess what I've found everyone.

Superman is not really weak to magic. His ability to resist is totally psionic as confirmed by Byrne and others. For instance, if he believes that a Vampire can manhandle him, it becomes fact. But if he believes he can stop a magical beam intended to destroy an entire island, he does. Superman even has defeated an all powerful demon in her own mystical netherworld.

Captain Marvel and Wonder Woman, being magic-based beings, "always" use the "magic vulnerability" when they hit Superman. The fact that they don't splatter him into chunky salsa tells us this "vulnerability" is more complex than it seems on the surface. If he were "truly vulnerable" to magic, not only would he be obliterated by magical fists, he'd be deep fried by the first bolt of magical lightning that hits him. He'd actually die from death spells instead of being sent into comas.

Superman's belief structure is based on two things. Firstly, he was raised with midwestern common sense. Secondly, his Kryptonian heritage was solidly technocratic and scientifically based. His belief structure doesn't include the possibility of magic. This explains why he can be hurt by a Vampire, but he resists outright destruction by vastly superior magical forces. His subconscious kicks in his self-preservation instinct in life-threatening situations. It would make an interesting Elseworlds story if Superman had been raised in a magical culture. That way, his belief based vulnerability would be to scientific weaponry instead of magical forces. So Superman "can" resist magic and is a thoroughly selfless character. For he has been shown to resist magic when there is a grave need for it.

Some examples :

1. Early 90's Superman vs. Blaze; Superman defeats Blaze in her own hell dimension.

Stake : Jimmy's soul is about to be taken by Blaze .

This is no ordinary feat as Blaze has NEVER been beaten in her own realm. Blaze is a mystical demonic ruler who has total control over a mystical Hell. She's on a par with Neron and Satannus.

2. JLA Primeval: Superman resisted the magical and mystic energies of a Primeval God.

Stake : the JLA's evolved existence .

God power versus Superman Invulnerability.

3. Crossover, War of the Gods: Superman DEFLECTS and WEAKENS a mystical Bolt so powerful, it was designated to destroy the Greek Islands.

Stake : Millions of lives in Greece .

Although Superman was unable to completely stop it, he deflected (and resisted its destructive mystic energies) enough to save the Isles.

Some minor incidences:

4. Superman versus the Demon, Byrne era: The Demon blasts the Superman with Hellfire but causes no physical harm. Superman feels though as if it was burning in his mind and soul. He resists it enough to fling the Demon through several towers.

5. Superman as Gangbuster: Without his normal psyche intact, Superman breaks mystical bands that was restraining him.

6. Superman in Valhalla: Although he is fighting against demons in a mystical realm, he ultimately out survives the DC version of Thor, and becomes the War's number one warrior. As noted, Thor deems Superman the worthy lifter of Mjolnir, not Diana or anybody else.

The point of these examples is that at times, Superman resists magic due to some instance when he is no longer thinking about the effects on his body. He has been shown to resist even massive amounts of mystic energies because he believes that he can endure it, "and does"! Magic, and Mystical forces require faith to sustain it. The funny thing about bringing up Superman's vulnerability to magic is that everyone who says it will hurt him just says that it will, no questions asked . That's faith. But equally true is the belief that if you believe that it cannot

hurt you, it will not. That too, is faith.

Superman's mind is that of a mortal. There are many things, like a mortal, he does not understand. And magic is among them. He has been indoctrianted to believe that he has a weakness to magic, and thus when confronted by it, he automatically believes that he can be hurt by it. It is when he removes this belief (for the stakes at hand) that he overcomes magic.

The first 3 examples show this theory. The following 3 are a bit more diverse. Magic does not physically hurt Superman, but rather he says it is hurting his soul. This is indicative of the nature of one type of magic.

The second example is when Superman no longer maintains his own psyche. He no longer has this "fear" of magic and thus breaks through mystic restraining bands. The last is when he fights so long in Valhalla that he is not affected by its magical nature (or that of its creatures) any

more than WW or asgardian fighters, or even Thor. Magic is a tricky thing. It requires someone to believe in it to be effective. Belief systems have everything to do with it. And not everybody believes the same way. Superman "can" resist magic, only if he believes he can. Thus proving it is a psionic ability as with his other powers.

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Outside_85

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It's not really a weakness like Kryptonite as such, Superman just isn't as invulnerable to it as he is to everything else.

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redwingx

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It's not a weakness.......

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Here's an example, Samurai Jack's Sword is magic, but in the hands of evil it cannot harm an innocent person. Superman is an innocent person. So the magic sword would not harm him. See how that works? Magic does what it's designed to do. It doesn't automatically weaken superman just because it's magic.

Here's a another example. Just because the killing curse (from harry potter) can kill does not mean all magic is that effective. The whole point of the curse is to kill. It's an absolute spell with an abstract effect similar to the death note. However simply using magic to say....start a fire would not burn superman. Because it just burns like regular fire regardless if it's magic. Unless the magic fire is specifically enchanted to literally burn "anything" instead of just burning like a normal fire would. This logic applies just as much to someone like the Hulk as it does Superman.

Magic is more nuanced then some might have you believe. After all, The hulk can survive a blow from Thor's Hammer, and he isn't anymore immune to magic then superman is. The hammer is enchanted to hit you very hard. Not "one shot kill you". The hammer would likely kill a normal person because well...we mortals are fragile to normal hammers as it is.

Magic is not a special "only effects superman" type deal. It effects superman the same way it effects everyone else. It will effect batman the same, it will effect the flash, the martian manhunter, you get the point. the point is it's magic and magic basically messes up anyone unless they themselves are specifically protected against magic like the phantom Stranger or something like that. Even Reed is specifically seen telling Ben Grimm that he is vulnerable to magic, and hellfire is shown burning Johnny due to the magical nature of the flame. Superman may be vulnerable to magic but that doesn't mean magic is Invulnerable to Superman. Some types of magics have limits just like everything else.