Is Superman a relic from a bygone era?

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Bezza

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@heavenlydarkdragon:

Hey fella, its so long ago I wrote this post (1 year 9 months) I had to pause for a bit to remember what I was going on about! Anyway, no I don't agree with my comic book shop owner...he says Superman is a bygone relic. I don't. If you check my blogs, you will see that I wrote one only last year titled "Why the world still needs a Superman", or something similar.

I think his character type is not in vogue right now, which is why darker grittier Batman is more popular, also why the trailer for B v S is disturbingly dark and grim and shows an unsmiling serious MOS.

Anyway, hope that clarifies!!

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leakywigs

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sort of? but not specifically. I'd say what he is getting at, is since the 1800s Antiheroes have become more and more popular in novels, pulps, short stories etc. There was a sharp decline around the end of WW2 which in part explains the end of the golden era of comic books, now adays its hard to find a movie or book with a "true hero" Superman Movies are the only superhero movies produced in the last decade and the only ones to hit sales as high as they do since before the silverage. so it sticks out like a sore thumb. It probably his popularity alone that lets him hold on longer than the other non antiheroes. and pull in less at the box office than antihero comic book movies. but He is still Here, he is still one of the main, and most popular heroes... He isn't going anywhere, sometimes, you need to look up to a hero, instead of over at one.

I guess people generally like anitheroes. probably why Flash movies always get cancelled, and Wonder Woman movies always do so very awful. I don't for see Ill see a mainstream Captain Marvel/ Captain Marvel/ Miss Marvel/ Miss Marvel movie that grosses very high either. people not reading comics probably want their heroes touchable.... not admirable... they want to see the same flaws in them as they do themselves (or potential in themselves)

even in comics, if you look (this came up in a recent topic here) theres not many "true heroes" just antiheroes as far as the eye can see... other than the ones I listed I can't think of any off the top of my head... amybe Kyle rayner, but Im not that familiar with him.... (wait isn't he the one infected with the most fear? if so, I guess not even him)

Did I miss something. What WW movie? Spiderman isn´t exactly an antihero either. At best he might have more problems on the surface than Superman. I think the real problem with Superman is the quality of his movies and that the last good ones now seem antiquated. Most of his TV programs were big hits, because they were very well written, smart and kept to the spirit of the character. Lois and Clark was a huge pop culture hit and Terri Hatcher became a massive celebrity because of the show.

Batman´s popularity in films I think is strictly due to one thing, his movies in recent time have been a lot better than any other superhero and people have short memories. Take one of Superman´s best stories, say Birth Right, and make that comic into a film frame for frame, I think it would have done a lot better than Man Of steel. In these dark times I think writers are more drawn to dark material, so it is harder for them to cope with Superman, Wonder Woman, Flash or Shazam. However in these dark times I also think they are the superheroes we need more than any, right now.

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leakywigs

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#103  Edited By leakywigs

sort of? but not specifically. I'd say what he is getting at, is since the 1800s Antiheroes have become more and more popular in novels, pulps, short stories etc. There was a sharp decline around the end of WW2 which in part explains the end of the golden era of comic books, now adays its hard to find a movie or book with a "true hero" Superman Movies are the only superhero movies produced in the last decade and the only ones to hit sales as high as they do since before the silverage. so it sticks out like a sore thumb. It probably his popularity alone that lets him hold on longer than the other non antiheroes. and pull in less at the box office than antihero comic book movies. but He is still Here, he is still one of the main, and most popular heroes... He isn't going anywhere, sometimes, you need to look up to a hero, instead of over at one.

I guess people generally like anitheroes. probably why Flash movies always get cancelled, and Wonder Woman movies always do so very awful. I don't for see Ill see a mainstream Captain Marvel/ Captain Marvel/ Miss Marvel/ Miss Marvel movie that grosses very high either. people not reading comics probably want their heroes touchable.... not admirable... they want to see the same flaws in them as they do themselves (or potential in themselves)

even in comics, if you look (this came up in a recent topic here) theres not many "true heroes" just antiheroes as far as the eye can see... other than the ones I listed I can't think of any off the top of my head... amybe Kyle rayner, but Im not that familiar with him.... (wait isn't he the one infected with the most fear? if so, I guess not even him)

Did I miss something. What WW movie? Spiderman isn´t exactly an antihero either. At best he might have more problems on the surface than Superman. I think the real problem with Superman is the quality of his movies and that the last good ones now seem antiquated. Most of his TV programs were big hits, because they were very well written, smart and kept to the spirit of the character. Lois and Clark was a huge pop culture hit and Terri Hatcher became a massive celebrity because of the show.

Batman´s popularity in films I think is strictly due to one thing, his movies in recent time have been a lot better than any other superhero and people have short memories. Take one of Superman´s best stories, say Birth Right, and make that comic into a film frame for frame, I think it would have done a lot better than Man Of steel. In these dark times I think writers are more drawn to dark material, so it is harder for them to cope with Superman, Wonder Woman, Flash or Shazam. However in these dark times I also think they are the superheroes we need more than any, right now.

@wolverine08: For the record, I wasn't insulting Wolverine and I have read a few of his comics. I was just using him as an example of how supposedly gritty and edgy heroes are not more complex characters than iconic, stoic, morally righteous characters. That illusion is one that is held by many and can be dispelled by reading well written issues of said characters.

This statement is completely true. Being a Good person for in modern culture = being less complex and interesting. It´s a completely ludicrous way of looking at things.

I´ve always found Superman´s story when looked at objectively far more interesting than most other superheroes. It has so many dimensions and so many ways you can play with it. Batman and WW are my second favorite heroes and I feel the same way about them. But it looks like Superman, much like WW is getting shafted these days.

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MercinWithAMouth

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@bezza: It brought in over 650,000,000 didn't it? That was the first installment. Look at other superhero movies and their first respective films.

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leakywigs

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@bezza: It brought in over 650,000,000 didn't it? That was the first installment. Look at other superhero movies and their first respective films.

yea, but it didn´t get good buzz and they shoehorned batman into the next film for fear it wouldn´t sell.

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Bezza

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@mercinwithamouth: Flippin heck I wish people would stop calling me out over this thread, I made it the best part of two years ago !!!

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MercinWithAMouth

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@leakywigs: 650,000,000 isn't bad for a superheroes first movie. The movie itself is underrated, I feel. I wouldn't say they're shoehorning Batman in for that reason, but moreso for the progression of the Justice League.

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leakywigs

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@leakywigs: 650,000,000 isn't bad for a superheroes first movie. The movie itself is underrated, I feel. I wouldn't say they're shoehorning Batman in for that reason, but moreso for the progression of the Justice League.

It´s on record that wb thought it underperformed and even more so they feared because of it´s critical reception, the sequel might do even worse than it´s predecesser, which is why Batman was put in the movie. That isn´t opinion. That´s fact. Man Of Steel was supposed to have a sequel with Metallo as the villain, presumably with Lex Luthor, and other films would spill out of that into a Justice League movie.

As for Man Of Steel being a good film, not in my opinion. I think it was a Superman hater and Batman fanboys wetdream. It was definitive proof that Superman is not as interesting as Batman to the world. Not only that,Man Of Steel presents him as a recless, jerk God who pushes his weight around with no regard for humanity. I don´t agree with that sentement, but that film solidified it. I think any superman fan should be horrified and absoluetly livid at what Man Of Steel has done to Superman´s legacy in the films. I´m only hoping this movie will make up for it, but I doubt it.

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MercinWithAMouth

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@leakywigs: Pretty sure Batman Begins didn't make over $650,000,000. Same goes for other films that were the first for other characters.

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JasonBourne_

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@mercinwithamouth said:

@leakywigs: 650,000,000 isn't bad for a superheroes first movie. The movie itself is underrated, I feel. I wouldn't say they're shoehorning Batman in for that reason, but moreso for the progression of the Justice League.

It´s on record that wb thought it underperformed and even more so they feared because of it´s critical reception, the sequel might do even worse than it´s predecesser, which is why Batman was put in the movie. That isn´t opinion. That´s fact. Man Of Steel was supposed to have a sequel with Metallo as the villain, presumably with Lex Luthor, and other films would spill out of that into a Justice League movie.

As for Man Of Steel being a good film, not in my opinion. I think it was a Superman hater and Batman fanboys wetdream. It was definitive proof that Superman is not as interesting as Batman to the world. Not only that,Man Of Steel presents him as a recless, jerk God who pushes his weight around with no regard for humanity. I don´t agree with that sentement, but that film solidified it. I think any superman fan should be horrified and absoluetly livid at what Man Of Steel has done to Superman´s legacy in the films. I´m only hoping this movie will make up for it, but I doubt it.

^Man such idiocy in this post. It's garbage and will promptly be ignored. MOS was an origin movie that made $650 Million. Compare that to all other Superhero origin movies and MOS outperformed nearly all of them. Sequels ALWAYS make more bank bc of hype alone..BvS will make over a Billion dollars. Also, you're pretty challenged..I shouldn't be wasting my time on you.

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The_Titan_Lord

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#111  Edited By The_Titan_Lord

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leakywigs

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@leakywigs said:
@mercinwithamouth said:

@leakywigs: 650,000,000 isn't bad for a superheroes first movie. The movie itself is underrated, I feel. I wouldn't say they're shoehorning Batman in for that reason, but moreso for the progression of the Justice League.

It´s on record that wb thought it underperformed and even more so they feared because of it´s critical reception, the sequel might do even worse than it´s predecesser, which is why Batman was put in the movie. That isn´t opinion. That´s fact. Man Of Steel was supposed to have a sequel with Metallo as the villain, presumably with Lex Luthor, and other films would spill out of that into a Justice League movie.

As for Man Of Steel being a good film, not in my opinion. I think it was a Superman hater and Batman fanboys wetdream. It was definitive proof that Superman is not as interesting as Batman to the world. Not only that,Man Of Steel presents him as a recless, jerk God who pushes his weight around with no regard for humanity. I don´t agree with that sentement, but that film solidified it. I think any superman fan should be horrified and absoluetly livid at what Man Of Steel has done to Superman´s legacy in the films. I´m only hoping this movie will make up for it, but I doubt it.

^Man such idiocy in this post. It's garbage and will promptly be ignored. MOS was an origin movie that made $650 Million. Compare that to all other Superhero origin movies and MOS outperformed nearly all of them. Sequels ALWAYS make more bank bc of hype alone..BvS will make over a Billion dollars. Also, you're pretty challenged..I shouldn't be wasting my time on you.

Man Of Steel was seen by WB as part of the series connected with the Nolan movies. They expected like Batman it would do a billion dollars or near that because of the creative team involved being behind the critical success of the batman movies. Your argument is invalid. Batman Begins made less because it was the movie that started the comic book movie boom. Batman had sank as a franchise after Batman and Robin, so it was recovering from that.