Is New 52 Superman the BEST Superman?

I know that sounds like insanity from anyone who knows me and my feelings on the New 52, but going through a lot of New 52 Superman comics recently I found myself noticing something very striking and it's something I haven't noticed before. This latest incarnation of Superman incorporates elements of nearly every previous version of Superman.

For instance, Superman's debut in Metropolis was his first costumed appearance, at the time, he resembled the Golden Age Superman in many ways. He worked at the Daily Star under George Taylor instead of Perry White, he was faster than a speeding bullet, more powerful than a locomotive, and able to leap tall buildings in a single bound, but was not able to fly or to push planets around. This version of Superman always fascinated me as it's just not what one thinks about when you think Superman. Not being a god among men and under the right circumstances could be killed by a human being(High explosives for instance). This was very much the Golden Age Superman or Kal-L

He later changed jobs to work at the Daily Planet and developed more and stronger powers such as flight and was able to lift the approximate weight of the planet Earth for 3 days straight. It is during this time we see Superman delving more and more into science fiction and supervillains rather than putting all of his focus on such things like terrorizing criminals with his powers until they confess to what they had done. His adoptive parents of Jonathan and Martha Kent are also dead in the New 52. Currently at this time he is based far more on the Silver Age version of Superman, based on all of this.

At the same time however, his powers are also FAR less than those of the Silver Age Superman, despite being more like that version in every other category currently(Including Superdickery at times I must admit). He can't pull an entire solar system worth of planets on a chain or sneeze away entire solar systems. He also doesn't have such powers as super hypnosis(This was a thing believe it or not), and actually struggles with fearful governments, and his place in the world as he tries to find a balance between doing too much or too little with his powers. This is the Bronze Age Superman.

Now I will say this. New 52 Superman has grown on me. It's taken all this time to get used to him, but he has finally grown on me. I can actually say he's the ONLY New 52 version of a character that, at this point in time I have no problems with. Well not counting Wonder Woman, I find her to still be surprisingly still in character these days.

Definitely incorporates aspects of previous incarnations.

Really,already? I'm giving him at least another year in the hands of Pak and Johns before i solidify my thoughts and opinions on the character. Right now i have him pegged as an edgier bronze age Superman who's a lil more powerful which is pretty good imo just want more to go on.

Pak, Johns and Soule...

Superman has never had a staff this good. As soon as Doomed is finish, assuming Supes and Diana are still together and that Pak is still on AC, I see great stories in the future.

I loved Pak's Krypto in AC31. I chuckled.

Questions like this are hard to answer when a character is written by so many different writers at the same point of time. No two interpretations are the same, and some are so wildly different when contrasted that they just make the character look bad (someone in another thread mentioned Snyder's Superman spending sleepless nights worrying about the world's nuclear stockpile while Soule's Superman detonates a nuke and then goes clubbing with Wonder Woman like nothing happened). Generally speaking, no, I think New 52 Superman is a fairly poor representation of the character. It could be worse, but it's been a hell of a lot better in the past.

I think too many writers have tried to take cues from Morrison's introduction of the character into the new universe as a brash kid who was just a little arrogant and a little bit of a jerk while having his heart in the right place, without realizing that that was never intended to be some dogmatic status quo for all eternity. Morrison's run was supposed to be a learning process for Clark. It was supposed to be him growing up, getting a grip and learning to be mature and responsible; essentially, it was Clark learning to be Superman. Instead, you get stuff like the nonsense Pak has written in Batman/Superman, where Clark and Bruce are insecure jerks constantly trying to one-up each other or see whose narration boxes can be more condescending about the other guy. These are petty, stupid things that Superman is supposed to be better than.

The current focus on Clark's love life is greater than any other time in the last 15-20 years, and that focus is slowly killing Superman. One of the reasons Snyder's Superman is the most faithful representation of the character in the New 52 is because it's just Superman doing what he was meant to do: solve the big problems and save the world from itself. Every other ongoing is knee-deep in this juvenile will-they-won't-they crap; they say most comics are panelized soap operas, but that doesn't mean they have to actively try as hard as they can to be panelized soap operas. Soule's Superman/Wonder Woman is insipid dreck designed for low attention spans and even lower expectations of storytelling.

Part of the problem for me, personally, is that Superman fans have developed this kind of oppositional view that says they have to contrast themselves against other fandoms, particularly Batman's, and try to negate the problems with Superman's portrayal with the justifications they acquire from that view. If Superman and Batman are dicks to each other, they'll defend it as "Superman finally telling Batman what's what", never realizing that Superman is supposed to be better than Batman, not sink to his level. Max Landis writes two issues of Superman being a snide, condescending ass, and it's celebrated because he was being an ass to the Joker and he yelled at Batman at the end of it. Scott Snyder writes an issue where Batman helps Superman beat Wraith, and it's condemned as some sort of weak, pathetic portrayal of Clark instead of being an example of a real superhero team-up and one of the rare reminders that these guys are supposed to be friends and not very reluctant allies. It goes on like that.

Several fandoms have that oppositional view to some degree or the other; Wonder Woman's fandom, for example, has one giant collective chip on it's shoulder whenever comparisons with Superman arise, but having one this all-consuming does nothing except damage the character because it breeds low expectations and an obsession with a character's power-related capabilities rather than the nature of the character. Nothing good comes from celebrating this mangled mutilation of Superman and crossing your fingers and hoping for more. Doomed is really just the cherry on a putrid cake. It's not groundbreaking or vindicating to hear a mutated Superman go on about "scared, jealous" Batman or high-and-mighty Wonder Woman or making a drunken booty call to Lois. It's just sad and pathetic. And Superman fans should really demand higher standards instead of being satisfied with a character being dragged through the mud. I hope Johns' run is better. I really hope Johns' run brings back the Superman from Last Son and Up, Up and Away! That's what Superman needs right now, more than anything else.

Unless you meant "best" in terms of powers, in which case I really don't care either way.

Obviously

@saren: Nice analysis.Agreed especially with the B/S crap, when two respected grown up super-heroes with a five year old friendship act like immature boys, with insecurity problems, I can't take it seriously and I can't even enjoy it as popcorn entertainment. What makes it weird for me is that Pak in Action Comics may be writitng my favorite portrayal of Superman in the New52, so why does he change his portrayal in B/S, even in Action Comics 31 Superman and Batman seemed to understand each other with one sentence and there was trust! Is it an editorial mandate to make this title a reflection of the fanboys rivalry, is it Pak not caring or giving priority to this title since he writes a plethora of others, I don't know but I dropped it in a flash.

For me New 52 Superman doesn't mean much to be honest, his characterazation is so different depending on the title that I can't judge him.

I hope Johns fixes the mythos a bit, especially Brainiac oh dear god what they have done to Brainiac.

I tried to write something on here but it wouldn't compare to this post in the slightest. Maybe I'll write a piece later but for now I doubt I can top the quality or insight of this post at all.

New 52 superman just more powerful than Pre-52 superman,nothing to do with pre-crisis superman

Unless he can push entire universe or break infinite or withstand big bang

Also it was @toplel who made the comparison that Snyder's Superman loses sleep over the number of nukes in the world whilst Soule's Superman causes a nuclear explosion with Wonder Woman then goes clubbing. An apt comparison over how one version of Superman is clearly more in tune with how Superman should act than the other is.

Tough question. I wouldn’t be so categorical to call New 52 Superman THE BEST Superman. There were so many versions of him through years, so many different approaches; plus what criteria I should use in my judgment?..

Now, I could say that New 52 Superman is my favorite ever Superman - and that would be truth. It’s a matter of personal opinion – all of us have their ideal, idea how Superman should be portrayed.

Over years I read plenty of S-comics, watched him on TV (SA comics and Smallville TV-show been nearly unbearable to me); I liked some elements of GA original portrayal of Supes (proactive smart hero, social crusader with attitude) and some elements of pre-Flashpoint version. In the end, New 52 Superman is their most organic blend; when I read Morrison’s AC, I immediately understood : “That’s the Superman I always wanted to read about”; Pak somewhat followed in his footsteps, portraying more mature and experienced Clark; Soule’s work, while having a bit different personality imprint, not bad at all and so easily read and memorable. Snyder’s Unchained? Meh at best (maybe it because of those delays, through their some other things I don’t like about it). In the end, I don’t read about glorified “moral standard Superman” who could be Superman only when everything fine on his homefront; that’s damaging in a long run and restricting in storytelling IMO.

New 52 Superman has some problems, true, but it more writers’ fault (bad handling of character; damaging storylines, etc) that anything New 52 related; I remember plenty of such occasions in Pre New 52.

@sanohibiki: The "glorified moral standard Superman" is the core of his character mate. If you don't like that, maybe Superman isn't for you. The depiction of him in the New 52 hasn't met a lot of fans standards as shown in Saren's wonderful analysis. It isn't restrictive to show Superman as having an unshakeable moral compass and it isn't damaging to demonstrate that he's a symbol for a better tomorrow. All those claims are erroneous, fallacious and miss the symbolic goodness Superman represents in both fictional and real mediums. That's why Pre New 52 and All Star>New 52 because they get what Superman is about. New 52 Superman still has a long way to go before he's at that kind of standard. Thus New 52 isn't the most organic blend at all, it's "a brash kid who was just a little arrogant and a little bit of a jerk while having his heart in the right place, without realizing that that was never intended to be some dogmatic status quo for all eternity."

New 52 Superman is a very bad sculpted version of the character. Superman may submit any previous version of the character, but that doesn't mean it's good, because every writer who writes Superman currently writes him differently and his behaviour constantly amends and doesn't stay the same for long. And the constant change of the character's behavior,thinking and way of action hurts him a lot in the long term life of the character. You can't have the same Superman that you like every week because writers have just decided to make him different then his previous appearance and his character just doesn't stay the same.

And in the end you may say that nothing stays permanent with Superman in the New 52 and is one of the most inconstant characters in the New 52.

Morrison's Superman is the most organic blend as you called it, New 52 Supes is a mess without standard characterazation.
What exactly do you mean with that? I am not sure I understood what you wanted to say.

@lvenger:

First thing: having a good set of morale and being “glorified moral standard” doesn’t equal to me.

Second thing: I can’t put into words how much I “like” when in arguments I had in past about “What Superman should represent, what’s core of his character, Pre Flashpoint Superman vs New 52 Superman” my opponent used “You don’t understand Superman at all, you’re not his true fan, etc”. Use something different.

Third thing (coming out of second): I may respect other people’ opinions, but it said nowhere that I gonna agree with them and/or think that they’re right.

Now, sorry, I should go, work not waiting for anyone.

Squalleon

Sorry, for some time (several days most likely) I would be off CV.

The problem with New-52 is that it seems a bad, messy blend between the Golden Age, Silver Age, Bronze Age and Modern Age.

@lvenger: I love you guys, one minute you guys are whining about Superman's intervening in foreign affairs in JL and the next you want Superman to do something about nukes.

Some people...Just can't win with them.

@saren: Snyder's Superman is boring, it's about as interesting to read as a Scott Lobdell book. All Snyder has done in terms of writing a Superman story is writing feats that are supposed to make people be excited, I guess. All Superman has done is proven that he's powerful, and we know that already, but nothing exciting has happened in that book. I dare you, tell me one great line from Unchained. One funny dialog, one that's so Superman moment that wasn't a power feat (Expanding his whatever to catch all those nukes is a power feat.)

Second of all, I love Pak's work, he's the best Superman writer we've had since Byrne. Reading his Action Comics, I know Pak knows how to write a great Superman, his B/S comic is written to appeal to the larger audience, not the minority (Superman fans). The contentious attitude towards each other started from a Batman comic, with a Batman writer who said that they shouldn't get along. If Superman fans are happy to see Superman take shots at Batman (which I'm always happy to see), it's because Kal has been the one taking the abuse for years. (See Infinite Crisis Batman telling Superman off for example).

I was enjoying Soule's SM/WW pre-Doomed, differences in opinion. I guess I'm one of those low IQ folks that it appeals to.

I agree, this rivalry is pointless. Superman never wins (I don't mean in a fight, I mean in general). If Superman wins, he's panned as a jerk and he should know better. When Batman wins, Superman fans don't like it and the other fan base gets super-annoying (I might kill myself before MoS2) and thinks that this means Batman is better than Superman. My proposal to have them stop interacting, I believe, is still the best thing to do. And stop trying to act like Batman's intervention in Unchained was just a case of an irrational fan base being irrational. I asked many, I mean MANY, Batman fans if they would be okay with Superman intervening in a fight between Batman and Bane and the answer was no. We read these stories to see how our favorite superheroes (Superman) can get themselves out of dangerous situations using THEIR wit, strengths, cunning and will to do so. If I wanted to see Superman and Batman team up to take a villain down, I have B/S.

I'll wait and see how Doomed plays out, Soule and Pak are fantastic storytellers. I have faith in Pak, Soule says his plan is a step by step degradation of the wall that Superman puts up to show that he's human and prone to human emotions. I'll out my trust in those two and see how the story plays out instead of bashing them because they didn't write Clark the choirboy. Unless they've sent you the entirety of Doomed to read, you opinion hold no more weight than the people who like it.

Stop talking down to people, we get it, you're smarter than the rest of us, but no need to remind us every 5 seconds.

I love how all you guys on here all have a different view of Superman, how its written and are equally passionate about the character!! The answer is that no-one is right, its all down to opinion.

Personally I don't quite get all the extreme criticism of Doomed...I have read all the comics through twice now and there are some interesting elements to the story. I am also loving Pak's Action Comics and think there have been some great Superman comics out during the last year...

I go on a lot of forums on CV because unlike many, I am a big fan of numerous characters rather than being an out and out fan of one character (Hulk is my favourite of all, but not by much). The same theme resonates on all the forums. We comic followers are hard to please. Over on Daredevil a lot of guys hate Waid's run, despite the high crticial reviewes, over on Spiderman, there are people who hate Slott's comics, Batman fans on the Batman forum who think Snyder is rubbish and just don't ask Hulk fans about Waid (actually they may have a point on that one)..

You just cant please all the people all the time......!

And some people just want to see Superman act like a jerk and think it's in character to do. And I love how you go on a rampage against Bat fans yet are put down every time for talking out of turn about matters you know nothing about. Which coincidentally is what you're doing here. Some people just don't know what they're talking about and you're one of them. I have no idea why you're so in love with how Superman is at the moment and not appreciating the actual good stuff like Snyder's Unchained but if your ideal Superman is a bully and jerk who isn't a moral icon or symbol of what's good with humanity, then by all means, go ahead and like it all you want. It isn't what Superman is about. Pak's Superman is getting there but if you think he's the best Superman writer, that's an incredibly laughable assertion. Waid, Morrison, Kelly, Ennis, Johns, Jurgens and more write Superman way better than he does. I'm just glad there's always someone to remind you that you don't know what you're talking about.

This guy isn't being particularly agreeable about certain people's views Bezza. It's his way or the high way and all else be damned. His 'passion' for the character is sorely misplaced and based on poor interpretations like Bryne's take on Superman. In short, he and I don't see eye to eye in the slightest which isn't surprising given the absurdity of his views.

I don't know what you mean here so I can't comment on it.

But maintaing a high moral standard, acting like a good, kind, gentle, compassionate and caring person is what Superman is about. And the New 52 has had moments where Superman acts not just brashly but really aggressively and out of character. Mostly in the Superman series thanks to Perez and Lobdell. That's a critical misunderstanding of the character and the good moments of New 52 Superman do not outweigh the bad. The same cannot be said for how he acted Pre Flashpoint.

Likewise with you. You're entitled to your opinion but given that Superman is my favourite character, I do call out the BS on his poorly written moments in the New 52. Regardless of who disagrees.

I think that this:

this:

http://www.comicvine.com/images/1300-3499273

and these:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/3427914-2013-11-06+07-33-47+-+action+comics+%282011-%29+025-023.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/3427915-2013-11-06+07-33-47+-+action+comics+%282011-%29+025-024.jpg

all prove he could go dancing and just as easily been monitoring for those nukes like he said in Unchained.

I agree with the rest of what you said though.

People want a good SUperman interpretation that will stick and that seems like the old Superman that we all love but when we get that portrayal of the character, that is closest to his former counterpat(Unchained) they are still not happy enough. They are not happy just because Superman doesn't have any kind of moments rather than power feats while in the mean time it's actually a great Superman read because the dialogue,the movement and the acting of the character is just screaming Superman. And when the book gets something a big character needs from time to time,a team-up, they are unhappy because it has seemed like Superman wasn't good enough to handle the threat by himself and he needed Batman while it is nothing like that.

"Superman fans" these days.

QFT. It baffles me that Unchained gets put down when it's the next best New 52 Superman story after Morrison's run.

Morrison is the only writer I REALLY see pulling off what he pulled off.

Yeah, I can't understand why people are denying the fact that Snyder is trully understanding the character and his run so far is the second best portrayal of Kal so far in the New 52. There are some minor flaws but overall the book has everything a Superman book needs and the whole whining from people is just irritating as hell.

It is dissapointing that it has come down to an, "agree with me or you're not real fans of the character" rather than just accepting that different people like different things.

@lvenger: Yep, Pak's Superman is a total jerk. And, please, tell me, what don't I know what I'm talking about? How about you start giving examples instead of just name calling.

@tdk_1997: Yes, I fell in love with Superman because he's a alien demi-god with a human heart. I don't need to see Superman bench press the planet 500 times, or have him catch a million nukes, that is BORING! That's what made the last Superman so damn boring to read! Once you've maxed out on feats, you're out of stories to tell. That's what makes Pak's AC run so fun.

No ridiculous feats, no pissing contest with Thor or any DC powerhouse and no annoying Lois Lane.

Can you see why Snyder's Superman isn't for me? It's the direct antithesis of my views on Superman. What has Snyder written? Superman catches a space station, Superman fights Wraith (Nuclear Man), Superman catches a bunch of nukes. Let's not forget to remind everyone that Diana can only catch 10, GL 7 and Superman 35 of them. And for the love of god, Lois Lane playing the DID...Jesus H. Christ!

If Snyder wasn't Batman famous and had Jim Lee drawing for him, this book would not be selling as high as it does. And I'll ask you this same question, if in Batman 32 (Not Justice League or B/S) Batman and Bane starting fight and Bane gets the upper hand and Batman is on the ropes, would you be okay with Superman saving Batman?

Agree - this was what I was trying to say in my long winded way!

We're all fans of the same character, why the need to bicker and argue so much?!

For one, your conduct on the Batman forums and your Bat hater status speaks for itself. And secondly, your interpretations of Superman Pre and Post New 52 contain numerous flaws and lack of understanding the merits of the Pre New 52 version. In reality, that is the superior version of Superman and the late 90s-mid 2000s were when he was in his written prime with writers that best understood his character and gave him many great stories. Why you overlook the glory days of Superman since the Bronze Age I have no idea.

@lvenger:

Talking of which, could you pick me out a good TP from that era to add to my collection. I have a bit of a gap after the DOS books...the only TPs I have written in the late 90s, 00s are All Star Superman and Last Son of Krypton...

..Also agree that Unchained is pretty good...not sure why people have to choose between that and Action Comics. I was buying both, but like many people dropped unchained due to the ridiculous delays!

@bezza: Sure thing, what trades are you looking to buy?

@lvenger:

1.) Don't call me a Batman hater or even suggest that I go on Batman's forum. It's not that I care if I'm labeled that, it's just the thought of it annoys me that people think I care about the character enough to troll him. I don't give a flying F about Batman. I've never been on his board to troll and I never will, the only time I've went on a Batman thread is when it makes its way to the general discussion board and it has something to do with Superman, Wonder Woman or the Justice League. Otherwise, I've never looked twice his way.

2.) Enlighten me, your opinion is not fact, buddy. Just because you say so, it doesn't mean it is so. What's wrong with my characterization of N52 Supes?

3.) Show me where I mentioned anything about pre-52 Superman. The only thing I mentioned was that he got boring because of all the PIS feats. Something Lobdell and Snyder are doing to the N52 Superman.

I don't care about Bronze, Silver or Gold Age Supermen. I only care about Superman in the now. N52 Superman.

it's a matter of opinion in the end but yes i do love the new 52 superman better than i did the old one. He just lacks some of the iconic stories that the old one had and it's still young in the new 52 so i expect him to get to those iconic story levels in the coming years.

No. He's too mean and aggressive, isn't a boy scout anymore, and too powerful. I still like him but he's not the best.

@lvenger:

I'm just after a good pre Flashpoint Superman book written either late 90s or 00s, I've flicked through Earth One and For Tomorrow and wasn't overly impressed. Quite liked Superman for All Seasons....

Why does he have to be a boy scout? Why can't he just be Superman, how would you feel if I said I don't like Batman now a days because he's not campy enough?

By the way I enjoyed the new 52 Superman, and it's funny how the two people who have Batman as their default seems to have an issue.

It seems quite suspicious, but I believe some people don't have the best interest for Supes... so don't be deceive by people who pretend they do *Bat-Fans Cough*

@killerinstinct4588: Because he was always a boy scout. Batman hasn't been campy since the 60s... Being a boy scout is part of Superman's thing. Umm me having a batman picture as my avatar doesn't mean anything. I'm a fan of superman too.

Its just that I am an unbiased fan. Diehard Superman fans will like him no matter what, but he is very different than he was pre new 52 and I don't like that. I said I still like him though anyway, he's just not the best.

Lastly, if anything batman would like new 52 Superman more because batman whooped his butt fairly with kryptonite

@killerinstinct4588: Hey I changed my avatar to superman, does that make it better? Is that better for you? Does my opinion count as valid now?

@jayc1324: The "boyscout" was introduced by a Congressional mandate...in the SilverAge. The same thing that made Batman campy, made Superman a "boyscout".

@superguy1591: Didn't know that. The boy scout thing carried over all the way until now though and actually fit a guy who grew up where Clark did.

@jayc1324: Yes, Congress declared Superman and other superheroes a disturbance and corrosive to the moral fiber of our children. That's why the Silver Age was so campy, DC tried to please congress.

As far as the boyscout persona, I'm all for it. I like how Pak writes Superman in AC, he's a boyscout who wants to save everyone, but he's not a biatch. The problem is that people believe the holier than thou persona is what makes him a boyscout.

What makes him a boyscout, to me at least, is his idealistic desire to save everyone. Something only Morrison and Pak has introduced.

Man....Superman can't catch a break.

@superguy1591: The difference there is that bane is someone batman has always been to deal with. Here we have a brand new character, and on that is simply above Superman's league. It's explicitly stated. There's no reason supes should be able to beat wraith without something to even the playing field. If batman was fighting someone out of his league, like maybe aquaman then yes I would be fine with superman saving him. There's no reason batman should be able to beat aquaman usually.

I'm referring to your comment to TDK_1997. I don't think batman helping out superman made this book any worse.

No, not even close.

@saren: Nailed it.

I feel like Superman isn't allowed to change. People are so stuck on this glorified symbol that he produces that they forget he's a character. Batman is also a symbol but he has been allowed to be a character which may explain why he's always selling comics, TV shows, video games and movies. We've got stop seeing Superman "the symbol," and see the character and man.