I admire Peter Parker

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Enzeru--defunct

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#1  Edited By Enzeru--defunct

Hello everyone.

Some of you might know me from the Battle or the Sentry forums for my passion for the character Sentry.
He is my favorite comic book character for specific reasons, but he is not Peter Parker.
I don't admire the Sentry as much as I admire Peter Parker. How could I? How could anyone?

Peter Parker is an inspiring, funny guy, who had to deal with so much pain in his life. He had to sacrifice so much and we all know that in the end of the day and under his mask - he still had a smile on his face.
Peter Parker became the greatest superhero in comic book history. Not only a superhero, but a hero. Even when the day was dark and everyone was hating him, calling him a menace. Peter never stopped believing in the greater good.

What does he always say? "With great power comes great responsibility"

It sickens me that Peter Parker is gone for now. It sickens me that an imposter stole his life.
It sickens me that Ultimate Peter Parker is dead. It sickens me that a random character, no one ever wanted took his place.
And I am happy that I'm not the only person who thinks that way:

Frankly I cannot understand the hatred that Marvel seems to have towards the Peter Parker character.

Peter is an ordinary guy with an over-developed sense of responsibility. He is a good man. He doesn't use his powers to his own advantage. He helps others, regardless of the cost to himself. How many times have relationships been disrupted because of his being Spider-Man? How many sacrifices has he made? He is the epitome of a hero, yet for some reason Marvel seems to hate him as a character.

You have destroyed his marriage, retconning it into oblivion, only after having him lose his child, and literally put him through hell. Now you have killed him off in such a manner that no one can even mourn his passing. You have foisted Ock as a "superior" Spider-Man, but only if superior equals more violent. I count TWO deaths at the hands of Ock as Spider-Man and several severe beatings. It is an affront to all that Peter stood for. Yes, I remember that Peter had some times where his very sanity seemed in jeopardy and he resorted to violence, but he pulled himself back and was remorseful for what he had done. There is no such remorse from Ock. Instead there is gloating and mocking from Ock. What a great hero. What a superior human being. What a crock.

I do not accept that Ock is somehow changed into a hero by virtue of his theft of Peter's body and memories. He is still the same egotistical man he has always been. He is a murderer. Because of the recent storyline, I will not continue with this book. I will not buy any Spider-Man books until Peter is restored to his rightful position withing the Marvel universe. Changing Spider-Man to a different character is not enough. It might be a good story, but this is still a dishonorable treatment of a true hero.

I know that I am only one voice, but hopefully others with a similar opinion of recent events will voice their concerns. In a perfect world, your sales will plummet. It is a shame that I have to drop all Spider-Man books, because I do believe that Dan Slott is a talented writer, but I will not support this current treatment of the Peter Parker / Spider-Man character. He deserves so much better. I am also reminded how the Sentry told that he is the future. That he is everything. I guess that was a pretty short future.

Hopefully you will come to your senses, and fix this situation. However, I am afraid that ego will get in the way, as it did with the idiotic One More Day Storyline.

This current Spider-Man is in no way "superior". He is merely a more violent man, who takes shortcuts to accomplish his goals. In many ways, he is still Doc Ock, only now he wars Spider-Man's body. I am done reading this character, and any character using the Spider-Man name, until and unless it is Peter Parker, the true Peter Parker, restored to his position in the Marvel universe.

Chris Dugan


That was a letter from an upset Peter Parker fan. It actually made it into the Superior Spider-Man comics and I'm glad to see that Marvel is willing to print criticism.

I admire Peter Parker and everything he is and he stands for. I am not willing to take anything else, just because Marvel wants to try something else. No one is better than Peter Parker. No one is more exciting and more funny. And especially no one is superior.

I don't think that it makes much sense to say that one respects comic book characters. And I would usually never say that for any character - not even the Sentry, who I love.
But I am saying it for Peter Parker. I respect and admire Peter Parker, even though he is just a comic book character. He became much more than regular character - he turned into an inspiration.

To honor Peter Parker I would like to share two short stories from the Spider-Man comics with you.

LEAH

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THE KID WHO COLLECTS SPIDER-MAN

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kostisfire

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Who doesn't? Pete is the ultimate hero. He's the everyman guy who has suffered a lot. Supes may be the granddaddy of superheroes but Spider-Man is the best of them. Pete is one of the noblest characters ever. And the end of 700 reflects that. He didn't go out in a blaze of glory, he doesn't have a statue of him standing in Times Square. He gave everything so that he could save Ock. Seriously, the end of 700 isn't about Ock cheating death and all that crap. It's about Pete making the ultimate sacrifice.

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JasonHawke

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So what you're saying is that you do not like it when someone changes something you like?

Join the bandwagon!

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spider11211

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Just because you do not like something does not mean you do not like it just because it was change. Change can be good...in this case.....it is subjective.

The change that was made is liked by some and disliked by others. Some just stick with it waiting for it to get better.

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DanSlott

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@enzeru said:
"Peter Parker is an inspiring, funny guy, who had to deal with so much pain in his life. He had to sacrifice so much and we all know that in the end of the day and under his mask - he still had a smile on his face."

Yes and no. Yes in books like MARVEL TEAM-UP or whenever he guest-starred. But in the pages of his own titles, Peter was often in anguish or frustrated. Worried about paying the rent, or whether he was losing Gwen, or-- heck-- Gwen's death, or any number of soap opera problems. Read the Stan/Steve/John run of Spidey and he was far more in the soap-opera-anguish-mode than he was happy. But that overall tone DID make the nice moments-- a hug from Aunt May, a moment hanging out with Betty behind her desk at the Bugle, or a perfect prank against Jonah-- shine all the more. But "still had a smile on his face"? That's the Spidey from lunch boxes and cartoons-- not the comics.

"Peter Parker became the greatest superhero in comic book history. Not only a superhero, but a hero. Even when the day was dark and everyone was hating him, calling him a menace. Peter never stopped believing in the greater good."

Peter stopped believing in the "greater good" ALL THE TIME. Every other week he was "calling it quits", giving up on humanity, chucking his costume in the trash, or even trying to find ways to get RID of his powers so he didn't have to carry the burden of "great responsibility" and the "curse" of being Spider-Man. It's the fact that he'd take those big hits-- AND have those big doubts-- but still get up off the mat is what made him a great hero. But he had reason to doubt people and doubt that there was a "greater good" all the time.

"What does he always say? 'With great power comes great responsibility'"

Yup. And with his dying moments-- he FORCED that lesson onto Otto. He did everything in his power to leave the world a hero instead of a villain. And now, because of Peter's heroic efforts, Otto says "With Great Power Comes Great Responsibility" too. All the time. In fact, he just said it in the issue that came out today. The problem is... he interprets that belief in a very different way than Peter ever did.

"It sickens me that Peter Parker is gone for now. It sickens me that an imposter stole his life."

It should. That's part of the premise. Someone UNDESERVING of the Spider-Man mantle now has it. And what happens next? That's what the book's about. What happens to Spider-Man's world and the Spider-Man legacy WITHOUT that spark-- without Peter Parker? That's the story. The strong reaction it's getting out of you-- and the positive reaction we're getting out of readers who find this new take interesting-- is what fuels this series.

"It sickens me that Ultimate Peter Parker is dead. It sickens me that a random character, no one ever wanted took his place."

I'd disagree with you on that. The offices constantly get emails from young African American readers and their parents saying that this is a Spider-Man that they've always wanted. There's a large number of readers who grew up with Spidey and identified with him BECAUSE he wore a costume that covered up every bit of him. There are so many readers who, over the years, have said that Spidey felt like THEIR hero, because they felt that under that mask, Spidey could be someone like them.

"I admire Peter Parker and everything he is and he stands for. I am not willing to take anything else, just because Marvel wants to try something else."

The day Marvel STOPS trying something else is the day that ALL you'll get is cookie-cutter stories repeating the same ideas over-and-over again-- like flow charts or Mad-Libs. Trying something else is what serialized fiction NEEDS to do in order to survive and stay fresh.

"No one is better than Peter Parker. No one is more exciting and more funny. And especially no one is superior."

I think you're mistaken about a key point of Superior Spider-Man. The book isn't called Superior Spider-Man because he IS a Superior Spider-Man. It's called Superior Spider-Man because Otto (as part of his character) THINKS he's a Superior Spider-Man.

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DanSlott

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#7  Edited By DanSlott

@lvenger said:

"...just so Slott can foist everything that makes Peter great onto Ock for his personal fan fict."

I've written over 1 out every 10 issues of AMAZING SPIDER-MAN, and am currently writing the flagship Spider-Man title for Marvel, which happens to be the company's best-selling ongoing title. When you do that, it's called "Spider-Man canon." ;-)

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Lvenger

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@danslott said:

@lvenger said:

"...just so Slott can foist everything that makes Peter great onto Ock for his personal fan fict."

I've written over 1 out every 10 issues of AMAZING SPIDER-MAN, and am currently writing the flagship Spider-Man title for Marvel, which happens to be the company's best-selling ongoing title. When you do that, it's called "Spider-Man canon." ;-)

Look we've argued this before and gotten nowhere. I'm not going to be vilified so you can make it seem that decent critics of Superior are raging fanboys with nothing better to do. Let's just end this here shall we?

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Enzeru--defunct

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#9  Edited By Enzeru--defunct
@danslott said:

"No one is better than Peter Parker. No one is more exciting and more funny. And especially no one is superior."

I think you're mistaken about a key point of Superior Spider-Man. The book isn't called Superior Spider-Man because he IS a Superior Spider-Man. It's called Superior Spider-Man because Otto (as part of his character) THINKS he's a Superior Spider-Man.


That was not my point. Mr. Slott.

There is a reason why I posted the scans of the two specific short stories. People love Spider-Man, because they could always feel for him, relate to him and every little act of heroism was inspiring to them. Will we ever see something like that, when it comes to the superior Spider-Man?
There are already 14 issues out and I highly doubt that in even one of them Peter Parker's essence was captured. The moment, where you're happy for Peter Parker, or where you're sad, because he struggles.
None of that is there. I might be wrong, since I didn't read all of the books for the stated reasons, but I doubt that I'm wrong. You're not happy for Doc Ock and you're not sad, when he struggles. For some people it's just an on-going wait for Peter Parker to return.

You are of course right that Peter Parker had bad days, but who doesn't, when there are uncountable books out there with all kinds of storylines?
You say that he stopped believing in the greater good, but I say that there was a moment, where he was struggeling to stabilize the Daily Bugle and when everyone was safe, he wanted to quit. He thought he had done enough, but he didn't quite. He raised out of the ashes and prevailed yet again.
You say that he threw his costume into the trash can, but I say that there was a moment, where he was fighting Fusion, who made him believe that his body was broken and that he couldn't move. Spider-Man's allowed him to get past these illusions and prevail.

Everything bad that surrounds Peter Parker gets outshined by all the good he has done.

Also, please tell Rick Remender to make the Sentry stalemate Galactus on panel. Thank you very much! :-)

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impossibilly

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@danslott: Welcome to Comic Vine, Dan! If you thought people on Twitter were crazy... ;)

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I can understand disliking SpOck. But Miles is coming around.

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angelalfonso

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Peter Parker is and always will be the greatest hero in comic, I lock up to him not because he is spiderman, but because he is Peter Parker. A selfless hero and good guy at heart that always tries to do what right no matter what even if it means sacrificing what’s more dear to him, and that’s something Otto will never do.

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frogdog

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#13  Edited By frogdog

Beautiful speech sir

So what you're saying is that you do not like it when someone changes something you like?

Join the bandwagon!

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JasonHawke

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@frogdog: Im here to stay~

Everything in this rant was already said and done~~ :P

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PunyParker

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#15  Edited By PunyParker

@danslott said:


I think you're mistaken about a key point of Superior Spider-Man. The book isn't called Superior Spider-Man because he IS a Superior Spider-Man. It's called Superior Spider-Man because Otto (as part of his character) THINKS he's a Superior Spider-Man.

The single most right thing i read this month.

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Doctorholmes241

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Beautiful superior is crap

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MASTER_OF_SUPRISE

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@danslott said:

@enzeru said:
"Peter Parker is an inspiring, funny guy, who had to deal with so much pain in his life. He had to sacrifice so much and we all know that in the end of the day and under his mask - he still had a smile on his face."

Yes and no. Yes in books like MARVEL TEAM-UP or whenever he guest-starred. But in the pages of his own titles, Peter was often in anguish or frustrated. Worried about paying the rent, or whether he was losing Gwen, or-- heck-- Gwen's death, or any number of soap opera problems. Read the Stan/Steve/John run of Spidey and he was far more in the soap-opera-anguish-mode than he was happy. But that overall tone DID make the nice moments-- a hug from Aunt May, a moment hanging out with Betty behind her desk at the Bugle, or a perfect prank against Jonah-- shine all the more. But "still had a smile on his face"? That's the Spidey from lunch boxes and cartoons-- not the comics.

"Peter Parker became the greatest superhero in comic book history. Not only a superhero, but a hero. Even when the day was dark and everyone was hating him, calling him a menace. Peter never stopped believing in the greater good."

Peter stopped believing in the "greater good" ALL THE TIME. Every other week he was "calling it quits", giving up on humanity, chucking his costume in the trash, or even trying to find ways to get RID of his powers so he didn't have to carry the burden of "great responsibility" and the "curse" of being Spider-Man. It's the fact that he'd take those big hits-- AND have those big doubts-- but still get up off the mat is what made him a great hero. But he had reason to doubt people and doubt that there was a "greater good" all the time.

"What does he always say? 'With great power comes great responsibility'"

Yup. And with his dying moments-- he FORCED that lesson onto Otto. He did everything in his power to leave the world a hero instead of a villain. And now, because of Peter's heroic efforts, Otto says "With Great Power Comes Great Responsibility" too. All the time. In fact, he just said it in the issue that came out today. The problem is... he interprets that belief in a very different way than Peter ever did.

"It sickens me that Peter Parker is gone for now. It sickens me that an imposter stole his life."

It should. That's part of the premise. Someone UNDESERVING of the Spider-Man mantle now has it. And what happens next? That's what the book's about. What happens to Spider-Man's world and the Spider-Man legacy WITHOUT that spark-- without Peter Parker? That's the story. The strong reaction it's getting out of you-- and the positive reaction we're getting out of readers who find this new take interesting-- is what fuels this series.

"It sickens me that Ultimate Peter Parker is dead. It sickens me that a random character, no one ever wanted took his place."

I'd disagree with you on that. The offices constantly get emails from young African American readers and their parents saying that this is a Spider-Man that they've always wanted. There's a large number of readers who grew up with Spidey and identified with him BECAUSE he wore a costume that covered up every bit of him. There are so many readers who, over the years, have said that Spidey felt like THEIR hero, because they felt that under that mask, Spidey could be someone like them.

"I admire Peter Parker and everything he is and he stands for. I am not willing to take anything else, just because Marvel wants to try something else."

The day Marvel STOPS trying something else is the day that ALL you'll get is cookie-cutter stories repeating the same ideas over-and-over again-- like flow charts or Mad-Libs. Trying something else is what serialized fiction NEEDS to do in order to survive and stay fresh.

"No one is better than Peter Parker. No one is more exciting and more funny. And especially no one is superior."

I think you're mistaken about a key point of Superior Spider-Man. The book isn't called Superior Spider-Man because he IS a Superior Spider-Man. It's called Superior Spider-Man because Otto (as part of his character) THINKS he's a Superior Spider-Man.

So the book is suppose to repel fans of Peter? I really don't get what you're trying to say here Dan. For argument's sake why should a fan of Peter want to read this series? Convince me why I should spend my money.

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ODSTmaster

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i like superior i think its a good idea and SSM #1 was the first spidey comic that is started to get (because ive only been into comics since last year) i want peter to return so much because SpOCK is a asshole and i hate the way he talks about himself by saying he is superior in every way and how peter messed up his life and that he didn't deserve all his family and friends but the comics are good and we cant change anything about the fact that SpOCK is now spiderman until Slott decides when he wants peter to return but in the meantime we might as well enjoy it.

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the_stegman

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#21 the_stegman  Moderator

How can you NOT like Peter Parker?? Come on, he's such a great character.

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JeanRalphio

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If you've ever heard Stan Lee speak on Spider-Man,what you're saying is what he said always wanted for the character. Sympathy.

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MASTER_OF_SUPRISE

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@master_of_suprise: Im not repelled and im a fan of Peter.... :P

I realize not every person is going to be this way. I just don't get the Appeal of SpOck. I find him unlikable, Unrelatable and Unsympathetic.

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JasonHawke

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#24  Edited By JasonHawke

@master_of_suprise: I do not understand how people can "relate" to superheroes but I find anyone and everyone to be sympathetic. Liking a character tends to be more personal tastes.

Besides, SpOck has his moments:

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MASTER_OF_SUPRISE

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@jasonhawke said:

@master_of_suprise: I do not understand how people can "relate" to superheroes but I find anyone and everyone to be sympathetic. Liking a character tends to be more personal tastes.

I "relate" To Peter because I am kind of a geek which made me care about what he goes through. I find him sympathetic because he actually tries to do good even if he messes up. He clearly shows regret. I want to read more about him. Otto on the other hand I don't feel sympathy for nor relate to.

I don't care about his struggles. I don't want to read or hear more about him. I want to pretend this story arc doesn't exist but we all know that's impossible. Now that's not to say Otto can't be an interesting character for a time he was my second favorite villain. He works a lot better as a villain.

Sure we can say Peter's going to be back but that can be stretched a long time. So until that happens He's "Dead." Now a former villain can be a sympathetic protagonist. Case in point Scarlet Spider's Kaine. He has about a rap sheet as long as Otto's and he's so disgusted with his past he throws up at his own reflection.

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Lvenger

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@master_of_suprise: I do not understand how people can "relate" to superheroes but I find anyone and everyone to be sympathetic. Liking a character tends to be more personal tastes.

Besides, SpOck has his moments:

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That moment came at the expense of Peter's character history in the next issue though. Just remember that it was an "eye for an eye" policy here where Slott wrote Peter out of character to make SpOck seem like a 'superior' character. To me, that isn't how to write a good Spider-Man story at all.

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ccraft

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Sad stuff, I need to get some Spidey comics asap!

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JasonHawke

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@lvenger: Well duuuuhhh, SpOck's personality is arrogance ofc Slott is going to write like he's "superior". A cocky arrogant former villain acting like he's superior? Psh, bad Spiderman story! /sarcasm.

Besides, Im not talking about any specific issues. Just cause Issue 9 happened after SpOck's "moment" doesnt make it any less meaningful as character development. Like if any moment that Spiderman has with children could be ruined everytime someone brought up OMD as "it's going to happen next so..."

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Mezmero

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I don't want to be mean dude but are you serious about your subject title? You admire Peter Parker? Not the people who write him or draw him? Peter Parker is a fictional character and Spider-Man comics are written and drawn by real people. When you laugh at something he says you're essentially laughing at the writer's sense of humor. When you are awestruck by some acrobatic feat you're being captivated by the artist drawing him. And when he changes and or grows through the years it's the comics being restructured for modern sensibilities by editorial.

The haters talk about Slott like he's the one who killed this fictional character but if that was really the case then all the stories before would disappear from our memories. Dan Slott literally can't kill Peter Parker unless he wipes away everything that has already been written which is impossible. That's the beauty of fiction baby, great stories last forever. If you only admire the character who is nothing without creators then you might need to take a break from Spider-Man which makes the Superior arc a perfect excuse to do so. According to Comic Vine he's appeared in over 9000 (not the meme) comics so you could always go back to those if you're really starving for more Peter Parker.

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JasonHawke

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angelalfonso

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#35  Edited By angelalfonso

@mezmero:

Yes, people do care more about fictional characters than the creator of that character, why? Because they represent everything we aspire to be one day or we wish we could be and that’s not a bad think.

Take for example Jesus, even if he was a real man (which I believe he was), most of the thinks that the bible says he did are mostly fiction and people care more about the fictional Jesus than the writers of the bible.

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PunyParker

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#36  Edited By PunyParker
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Spideysense44

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#37  Edited By Spideysense44

@danslott:

oh crap its slott tell us some spoilers lol

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captain_oblivious

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I'll be the bad guy. You raised many good points but Parker is a walking doormat. He takes on too much guilt for things he is not responsible for. He needs serious counseling to get over the death of Uncle Ben and the bullying he received in high school. If a villain told Captain America he was responsible for the villain blowing up a building, cap would tell him to shut it and get in the cell. But replace cap with Spidey and instead you would have Spidey moping around thinking to himself how he should have done something to stop it, the building being destroyed and people being displaced is his fault.

Heroes don't really like having him around though they appreciate his assistance. There was an issue of Wolverine where a party was thrown and someone mentioned how nice it was to have all the friends there. Cut to the Avengers mansion and Spidey walking around wondering where is everyone. When he lost his spider-sense, some heroes allowed him to play in a poker game because they felt sorry for him. They claimed he wasn't invited because precogs aren't allowed. As if his spider-sense will protect him from a full house aces over tens. Pretty sure his spider-sense doesn't work that way.

When/if Ock is exposed by the heroes, I would hope Wolverine is there just so Ock could say to his face that Parker went easy on him whenever they fought (mainly the Spider-Man vs. Wolverine one shot). If they decide to tussle, I hope Ock tells Wolverine to bring the cash he owes Parker because he's collecting.

Parker is a good guy and when this story arc is over and he's back, I hope he is able to keep the confidence and backbone Ock currently has in the outfit.

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@angelalfonso: I'm sorry did someone just compare Peter Parker to Jesus Christ? Well I guess you can't deny that martyrdom makes for compelling storytelling. The problem is that people have killed in Jesus's name over the past several hundred years and I'd be afraid that Spider-Man fans might do the same. For that reason I try to tell the hardcore fans to chill the -eff out whenever possible though that seems to make them angrier.

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ComicStooge

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I honestly like both SpOck and Peter.

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angelalfonso

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#42  Edited By angelalfonso

@captain_oblivious:

Actually wolverine does consider Peter a close friend (even though they seem to enjoy annoying each other), why he wasn´t invited to Logan’s party? That was his girlfriend fault

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And he also is also close to most of the female avengers

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danatblair

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#43  Edited By danatblair

i like superior i think its a good idea and SSM #1 was the first spidey comic that is started to get (because ive only been into comics since last year) i want peter to return so much because SpOCK is a asshole and i hate the way he talks about himself by saying he is superior in every way and how peter messed up his life and that he didn't deserve all his family and friends but the comics are good and we cant change anything about the fact that SpOCK is now spiderman until Slott decides when he wants peter to return but in the meantime we might as well enjoy it.

Isn't that Stockholm syndrome?

I don't get the argument that you might as well go along with something, no matter your personal feelings on it. It is possible to both like and/or dislike something for well founded reasons. Not everyone who is unhappy with a plotline is a rabid reactionary. Not everyone who likes it is a blinded fanboy. I don't feel that anyone is ever really in a position where they MUST support or oppose a story regardless of your actual feelings on the subject.

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captain_oblivious

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@angelalfonso: Okay, I may be a little harsh. The heroes are like teenagers and Spidey is like someone's younger brother. The heroes aren't very mature but Parker is even less so. In that series Wolverine found Parker annoying. The first issue had them spending time apart (years?) because Wolverine didn't want to deal with him. A recent Scarlet Spider had Wolverine saying he hated Spidey. As for the women, I wouldn't be surprised they treat him as "safe", someone they trust and don't have to worry will try to make a move on them. He doesn't even flirt with any of them really. His date with Capt Marvel was awkward and didn't go anywhere. In one of her issues, she comments to someone how Parker is a really big boy scout and predictable. Other heroes may joke around with him like in the first Avenging Spider-Man by saying "no it" cause they don't want to give Spidey a lift back to NY. (They probably stuck him with Red Hulk because they probably don't trust the new guy)

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viral4343

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@angelalfonso: Okay, I may be a little harsh. The heroes are like teenagers and Spidey is like someone's younger brother. The heroes aren't very mature but Parker is even less so. In that series Wolverine found Parker annoying. The first issue had them spending time apart (years?) because Wolverine didn't want to deal with him. A recent Scarlet Spider had Wolverine saying he hated Spidey. As for the women, I wouldn't be surprised they treat him as "safe", someone they trust and don't have to worry will try to make a move on them. He doesn't even flirt with any of them really. His date with Capt Marvel was awkward and didn't go anywhere. In one of her issues, she comments to someone how Parker is a really big boy scout and predictable. Other heroes may joke around with him like in the first Avenging Spider-Man by saying "no it" cause they don't want to give Spidey a lift back to NY. (They probably stuck him with Red Hulk because they probably don't trust the new guy)

And this still is the case now, despite Peter being rich as F.

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ursaber

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Frankly I find Peter Parker far more interesting than Spider Man a lot of times. In the movies I want to see Spider Man using his powers galore but in the comics I'm more invested in his personal life, relationships and friendships than his superhero career.

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MarvelMan92

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@ursaber said:

Frankly I find Peter Parker far more interesting than Spider Man a lot of times. In the movies I want to see Spider Man using his powers galore but in the comics I'm more invested in his personal life, relationships and friendships than his superhero career.

Same, Though In The Films I Love To See Both.