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#1 Edited by Lady_Liberty (10767 posts) - - Show Bio

CVnU Political Rules

Official Deffinition of CVnU Terms

RPGer: When the term 'RPGer' is used it will refer to an individual who has posted a minimum of five IC (in character) posts on the RPG board. Those posts can be in any universe.

Active: When the term 'Active' is used to refer to an RPGer in means that RPGer has posted a minimum of one IC post within the last thirty days. Conversely, 'Inactive' shall mean a RPGer who has not posted ICly within the last thirty days.

Election: All political leaders must be elected by popular vote of RPGers.

It is not possible to become a political leader without winning an OOC election.

Voting is to be done via post, not poll, as polls are inaccurate. Those who attempt to cheat by voting multiple times with alts may be detected by the mods. The offending votes will be struck.

A challenge is issued by posting a 'Political Challenge Thread'. This challenge thread must announce your intention to run for the office in question. The thread must be open for three days, as others will need time to see the thread. In addition any RPGer who wishes may also throw their character into the race at this point by posting their intention to run in the challenge thread.

After three days the 'Voting Thread' may be created. The voting thread must contain a list of every candidate and their running mate. If player X is running for President, and they wish to have a Vice President, that Vice President must be listed along side them.

Every candidate who challenged in the 'Political Challenge Thread' must be listed in this thread for the thread to be valid. If a candidate who challenged inside the three day (72 hour) window from the posting of the 'Political Challenge Thread' is excluded the results are not valid.

The voting thread is to be open for three days (72 hours) from the time of posting. At the end of this time the RPGer with the most votes is 'President' and their running mate (if they have one) is 'Vice President'.

Vice Presidency: All leaders have the option of running for OOC election with a 'Vice President'. This is regardless of if the country in question has a Vice President or not; they would be known under another name suitable for the canon of that country (e.g. 'Lieutenant Governor' or the like).

If the duo win, then should the 'President' become inactive or abdicate, the 'Vice President' will replace them with all the powers that the President would have originally had.

Should the original President return, the Vice (now the new President) may voluntarily hand the reigns over to them or choose to retain the Presidency. If the old President wishes to challenge the Vice to regain control, they must wait until the three month 'term duration' ends and challenge just like anyone else.

Term Duration: All political leaders will have three month terms. At the end of those three months a challenger may create another voting thread. RPGers will be able to vote on who they wish to see become the new political leader. If the incumbent wins, they retain their position/s. If a challenger wins, they become the new political leader.

As many challengers may challenge as wish to. So if Jane is the President and Joe creates a three month challenge, then Frank and Alice can also throw their hats into the ring and have a chance to win the Presidency as well.

There is no term limit. An RPGer may remain leader as long as they are capable of winning elections. If this violates the canon laws of the nation or other political unit then it will be 'canon' that the law was changed to accommodate their victory. [Please note, this refers to real life time. So a President of the United States would need to win twenty four elections before the eight year term limit would be relevant.)

Presidential Powers: Presidential powers will be equal to (but not exceed) the powers the entire RL government possess. For example the President of the United States will be able to pass bills, budgets and the like and it will be assumed that their legislation always passes the House and Senate, and is confirmed by the Supreme Court.

They will not, however, posses the powers to 'alter canon' in the way that an Empire holder can. For example they may deploy the army to another country in an invasion. However they may not give the army super powers, super-science materials or an impossible quantity/quality of equipment or manpower.

Essentially a political leader possesses all the powers of that country's government in real life but no more. A real life government cannot legislate superpowers into existence, nor can they pass a bill that advances scientific progress.

Qualifying Locations: All major real life locations are subject to the new rules. If you wish to control a real life locations political system than you must be elected by a popular vote of your fellow RPGers. For example, NYC and Washington DC are major locations real life locations and will always require a vote to control.

However some real life locations are not 'major'. For example Brattleboro Vermont, a small town of less than 15,000 people and no distinguishing features, can be controlled at will as it is not a major part of any canon.

Original Creations and Opt In / Opt Out: Original creations are not arbitrarily subject to this rule. The default state for an original creation is 'opt out', meaning that by default these rules do not apply to fictional cities. Instead their creator has creative control over the location, including its political figures, technology level, law enforcement and the like. By default these new rules have no effect on any original creation.

However the creator can decide to 'Opt In' to the CVnU Political Rules. When they choose to do this the CVnU Political Rules apply to the location. When this occurs that location's political leadership must run for election, political leaders will not have 'canon altering' powers to give the location superhuman technology, numbers or wealth beyond what an equivalent real life city would have.

The creator always retains the right to 'Opt Out' of the CVnU Political Rules at any time. This means that regardless of the results of an election, canon developments, or RPGs, the creator of a fictional location always retains the option to regain creative control. The location belongs to them, not the CoE or the RPGers because they are its creator.

For example a RPGer may create a 'Metropolis' for their 'Superman' character. They may give the police force of this Metropolis superscience weapons derived from alien technology and a jail that suppresses the powers of superpowered individuals (technologies that do not exist in real life). Then they may appoint the 'Lex Luthor' character of their OOC friend as the mayor of this city and proceed to fight against this corrupt mayor and his superpowered NPC police force. At this point none of the CVnU Political Rules will apply to the city.

Then the storyline might end and the RPGer may 'Opt In'. At this point the CVnU Political Rules will apply to the city and if Lex wishes to remain the mayor he must win an OOC election. In addition the superpowered NPCs will be removed and the police force will not have access to technology above what a real life police force would have. Whoever is elected mayor will find their superpower suppressing prison has 'broken down' and no longer functions; instead they have prisons with real life strengths and weaknesses. If the player of the Mayor needs superpowered assistance he must turn to another player. At this point all of the CVnU Political Rules apply to this location.

At any point the creator of this thread may decide to 'Opt Out' and return the thread to his or her control. This may be done regardless of who has been elected mayor, regardless of the progression or events of IC storylines and regardless of the current canon of the location. This 'Metropolis' always belongs to its creator. When he or she chooses to 'Opt Out,' none of the CVnU Political Rules apply to this location.

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#2 Edited by Lady_Liberty (10767 posts) - - Show Bio

Based upon the new rules the CVnU has decided no individual holds the office of President of the United States. The reason we decided this is because all Presidents must now be elected. Either by winning an election as the President, or on the President's ticket as a Vice. It is no longer possible to become President without taking a majority of the OOC vote.

In the case of Orph he did not win the majority vote. He win any votes at all; Psy received the majority share of the votes and Nox the rest.

To make any non-elected individual President would be for the CoE to 'pick a winner'. It is the preference of the CoE to avoid choosing the winners and losers of empire claims and politics unless absolutely necessary. The purpose of the CoE is to regulate the process, not dictate the outcome.

Therefore should any individual wish to be President or Vice President they may run for election at this time.

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#3 Posted by Lichter (5807 posts) - - Show Bio
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#4 Posted by DarkJusticar (128 posts) - - Show Bio
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#5 Posted by Gale_Xanders (3189 posts) - - Show Bio

@lady_liberty:

Oh, a different question:

Can I have the election rules apply to CVbU as well?

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#6 Edited by Supreme_Shaytan (2413 posts) - - Show Bio
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#7 Edited by Lady_Liberty (10767 posts) - - Show Bio

@supreme_shaytan: That'll give you cancer -__-

@darkjusticar:It started before the new rules were in place so I think the premise, returning Gothic to the USA, is fine. And for the purpose of that RP I don't see any problem with Orph being the President. Canon wise he will have been the President for that period.

And yes, you can 'opt in' for the CVbU as well.

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#8 Posted by DarkJusticar (128 posts) - - Show Bio

@lady_liberty:

Ok good, I wanted to make sure I didn't need to do a lot of backtracking, lol.

Thanks =).

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#9 Posted by Lady_Liberty (10767 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkjusticar: No problem :-)

We don't usually overturn canon that has already happened unless its REALLY bad lol. And this wasn't bad. Nobody did anything wrong or broke the rules; the rules didn't exist yet.

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#10 Edited by DarkJusticar (128 posts) - - Show Bio
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#11 Posted by MourningSparrow (693 posts) - - Show Bio

Strangely enough, I find myself covered in the blood of several small animals. I think maybe I'll go wash that off before I decide I'm done with CV.

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#12 Posted by ErrolKnightfall (201 posts) - - Show Bio

I'd assume these rules only apply to, say, positions other than actually being on the COE, yeah? Because, you know, it's ironic that such a democratic system for RPing was put in place without anyone voting for it.

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#13 Posted by Lady_Liberty (10767 posts) - - Show Bio

Edit to the 'Election' section to clarify the process of running for election.

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#14 Posted by ErrolKnightfall (201 posts) - - Show Bio

This means empire claims can no longer result in a player owned empire, right? Because it says that.

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#15 Posted by Lady_Liberty (10767 posts) - - Show Bio
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#16 Posted by MourningSparrow (693 posts) - - Show Bio

@lady_liberty: It says it's impossible to become a political leader without an OOC election. People wjo win empire claims can be political leaders, like in Iceland.

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#17 Posted by Gale_Xanders (3189 posts) - - Show Bio

@mourningsparrow:

I think this section is of some import to what she's saying:

"They will not, however, posses the powers to 'alter canon' in the way that an Empire holder can. For example they may deploy the army to another country in an invasion. However they may not give the army super powers, super-science materials or an impossible quantity/quality of equipment or manpower."

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#18 Edited by Lady_Liberty (10767 posts) - - Show Bio

@mourningsparrow: The ruler of an Empire has far greater powers than an elected political leader under this system. This reflects the fact it is also much harder to acquire an empire than it is to win an election. The ruler of an empire can have their IC character rule through political means, mind control, or any other means whatsoever because they are in control of the canon for that location. A political leader cannot do that and is limited to what is possible for a government to accomplish in real life.

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#19 Posted by MourningSparrow (693 posts) - - Show Bio

@lady_liberty: Which seems pretty pointless. Why can't the US function like an Empire, but with elections? It worked for years like that.

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#20 Edited by Lady_Liberty (10767 posts) - - Show Bio

@mourningsparrow: The number one reason is because that defeats the point of empires. If you can gain near absolute power over a section of canon by winning an election why would you ever attempt an empire claim?

Secondly the amount of power would be inconsistent with the effort required. As you may have noticed empire claims can be hard to win. It is a difficult feat that is matched by large amounts of canon power. Winning an election is a moderate feat that is matched by a moderate degree of canon power.

Thirdly because the use of elections to claim an empire was simply being used as an exploit to avoid doing the hard work of an empire claim.

Fourthly because 'big canon' is suppose to mean something. If every President is making huge and radical changes (such as creating armies of robots and giving everyone in the nation superpowers) it takes away all the 'impact' that those sorts of things should have. 'Big canon' should be a big deal but it never will as long as it is treated casually by a chain of un-elected Presidents.

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#21 Posted by MourningSparrow (693 posts) - - Show Bio

@lady_liberty:

Because claims are fun. That's the point of RPing. Hell, you're almost guaranteed to get posts if it's a claim.

But the candidate has to make sense. Satar could try to claim the US, but from an IC standpoint, he can't even run.

See above.

Not every president has, though, and we were treating it like an emprise with elections.

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#22 Posted by Lady_Liberty (10767 posts) - - Show Bio

@mourningsparrow: Claims are not fun lol, not even a little bit. They are an exercise in misery and 'writing grind' ;-P But posting in them is basically a requirement at a certain point so they do get a lot of posts. Unfortunately this has lead to people who could not otherwise drive a large RPG using Empire Claims to get posts.

I'm not certain what your point is here.

Again, I'm not sure what you are trying to say.

and we were treating it like an emprise with elections

Yes, you were and thus this rule was created.

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#23 Posted by MourningSparrow (693 posts) - - Show Bio

@lady_liberty:

That's your opinion. And why shouldn't they? I don't think an single one of my RPs or teams has taken off, unless it was based off of previous canon, and that was a shitty realization to come to. If I want to get some posts, why not make a claim?

You suggest that elections are a shortcut to Empires, but most characters, and writers, who would want one, are not politicians, IC. Thus, it's not as much of shortcut.

But that's NOT BAD.

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#24 Edited by Lady_Liberty (10767 posts) - - Show Bio

@mourningsparrow: Because making an RPG that people feel obligated to participate in, rather than organically developing a storyline that draws people in with the promise of fun and entertainment, is not RPGing in good faith. Too much of that and people think 'Oh god, not him again.' rather than 'Hey, he's back! This is going to be fun!'

I really don't understand the logic here.

Honestly Orph, I'm glad that you are so passionate about being involved in canon. That's a good thing. But you are also acting like the aggrieved party here when you are not. As far as the CoE was able to determine not a single person voted for you to be President. Not one. As in, nobody. (Not the Spiderman Nobody either ;-P )

If you want to be President you need to have at least one person vote for you lol. Then, in theory, if nobody voted for anyone else you could be the President. But it is difficult to see why you have a case to be offended when you became President in the first place without a single vote. Be thankful for that gift. Not ungrateful because the gift wasn't everything you thought the gift should be.

And if you wish to be President, go out and earn the votes of your fellow RPGers. Nobody owes you the Presidency.

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#25 Posted by MourningSparrow (693 posts) - - Show Bio

@lady_liberty:

Ok, here's how it happened, to clarify the ACTUAL story.

Me: Hey, I wonder what's been going on in WC while I was in class! Oh, people complaining about there being no POTUS. Hey look, someone out forth that I should fill the gap, and that seemed to be the consensus. Well, I had no plans in that regard and it'll fill my writing schedule, but this is clearly an Issue for some people.

So, I made the thread, got no flak for it, and decided to try to push activity. Thus, the Gothic debacle. Suddenly, people are angry at me for trying to help push activity, and take a job I didn't really want at that point. Since the only catalyst for new rules here is people posting in WC, not, you know, a discussion thread or poll, this happens, and I lose all interest. So yeah, I feel pretty damn aggrieved, considering people are demonizing me for doing what I thought they wanted me too. And in fact, I'm the only one who came forth to try to do it, so there's no other person going "I didn't get a chance!"

Also, that last bit was just plain rude. I try to refrain from ad homenim attacks.

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#26 Posted by Lady_Liberty (10767 posts) - - Show Bio

@mourningsparrow: As far as I can tell no one is angry at you for trying to push activity. In fact we are glad that you made the attempt and happy to see you do things. Nor is anyone demonizing you as far as I can see. If they are, perhaps you could direct me to the post because 'anger' and 'demonization' seem like vastly exaggerated and distorted views of the facts I have observed so far.

Let us keep in mind that you were not the runner-up in the election. Nox was. He received 11 votes, if I recall correctly. (And someone feel free to correct me if my memory is wrong.) You received 0 votes. Therefore, when it was time for the CoE to decide if you should remain President we didn't see any reason that you should. The case for you being President under the new rules is simply non-existent. To be President you must be elected. To be elected the majority must vote for you. But to have a majority of votes requires a minimum of 1 vote, which you did not attain. Without even one vote the idea that you have any right to be President is more than a little silly.

You are attempting to paint yourself as the victim, instead of being privileged enough to become President at all. A feat the vast majority of RPGers, even multi-year vets, never accomplish. I congratulate you on that accomplishment ~_^ But I frown on the attempt to make yourself out to be a victim when the gift you were given didn't turn out to be everything you wanted.

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#27 Posted by deactivated-59c716930b8a6 (9227 posts) - - Show Bio
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#28 Posted by Lady_Liberty (10767 posts) - - Show Bio
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#30 Posted by MourningSparrow (693 posts) - - Show Bio

@lady_liberty:

I was given a responsibility, not a gift. I gave up on the presidency after losing to Psy. People SEEMED to want me to be the POTUS, so I tried to fill the gap, and people SEEMED to appreciate it. No one else came forward to be Pres, so I believed I had been picked.

Also, the reason I was not elected, perhaps, has something to do with the Vet Effect.

What is the Vet Effect, you ask? Simply, this. The majority of RPers here are Vets, such as the entire COE, or every single president we've had. This is because you tend to vote for other Vets, and no one new gets a chance. Now, if it were fair, we'd have CoE elections every three months as well, and only let one Vet in at a time. But we both know that's not going to happen.

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#31 Posted by deactivated-59c716930b8a6 (9227 posts) - - Show Bio

@lady_liberty: That reminds me, I have a question. If I made an Skyrim-sized province on nU Earth, would I need to consult the CoE beforehand?

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#32 Posted by MourningSparrow (693 posts) - - Show Bio
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#33 Posted by Lady_Liberty (10767 posts) - - Show Bio

@dreadpool10: I'm not exactly sure how big Skyrim was. Wasn't it about 5 square miles?

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#34 Posted by deactivated-59c716930b8a6 (9227 posts) - - Show Bio

@lady_liberty: I thought it was 14. Not entirely sure to be honest.

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#35 Posted by Arquitenens (11973 posts) - - Show Bio

ad hominem

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#37 Posted by Lady_Liberty (10767 posts) - - Show Bio

@mourningsparrow: Though power and authority do come with responsibility the rewards far outweigh the weights.
Belief and feelings don't have anything to do with this. This is about what rules are best suited for the section, and then how your personal situation was to be interpreted in light of those rules.

I agree with you on the existence of the 'Vet Effect' and the existence of cliques and I wish I could change that. They're a problem, and personally repulsive to me. I remember being a newbie myself and not getting a chance from any vet except Gambler.

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#39 Posted by MourningSparrow (693 posts) - - Show Bio

@arquitenens: Have a problem with my opinion, say it to my face, please. And I don't accept memes as a rebuttals, I accept reasoned arguments. That's usually how it works.

I'll start. When I read that post, I was personally offended and upset by the content therin, and decided to bring it up with the person in question. Being called 'ungrateful,' 'silly,' and told I'm pretending to be a victim are ad hominem attacks.

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#40 Posted by Lady_Liberty (10767 posts) - - Show Bio

@lady_liberty: I thought it was 14. Not entirely sure to be honest.

You seem to be right. I found a reddit calc that said 14.8 square miles. A 14.8 square mile area isn't large enough to be significant in my view, so I would think that you could go ahead and create it at will without involving the CoE. [This is just my personal opinion, and other members of the CoE may well disagree.]

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#41 Posted by _Reynard_ (3203 posts) - - Show Bio

The only problem that I have with the rule is the time. I honestly think three months might be a bit too short considering a major RP usually takes about a month.

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#42 Posted by MourningSparrow (693 posts) - - Show Bio

@lady_liberty: Not really. I had other plans, and my first day was fruitlessly defending myself against a bunch of vets on the Gothic matter. Believe you me, I would have given it up for the whole thing to end.

The thing is, the entire COE are vets. Get Dreadpool or Lichter up there, they're good enough writers and reasonable enough people IMHO.

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#44 Posted by Lady_Liberty (10767 posts) - - Show Bio

@soulsexodus: @_reynard_: If Presidents begin to do three major RPs per term (at the rate of one per month) and are cut off before the forth, then this is something they can campaign on to be re-elected as it is a rate of activity no President has come close to matching before. (Even Stark)

If people enjoy their roleplays and want them to continue they can easily vote them in for another term. However, if the President is inactive or dissatisfying in another way (which is so common as to nearly be universal with Presidents thus far) than longer terms simply mean longer periods of Presidential inactivity.

Personally I would have loved it if Presidential activity in the past implied the need for longer terms but sadly, it does not. And players can easily vote Presidents in for another term if they are enjoying the storyline anyway.

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#45 Posted by Gale_Xanders (3189 posts) - - Show Bio

@lady_liberty:

You make me wish I had characters that could run, lol.

Out of all my characters the only person born in the United States and of age is huh...no one. Luna Hawk could run if she were older unless the law was waived for her because she's technically multiple thousands of years old but if you did that you'd have to say she was born in Egypt...

Holy crap I have no one who can run.

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#46 Edited by _Reynard_ (3203 posts) - - Show Bio

@lady_liberty:

True. But I was referencing being active in major RPs. Not the Pres being the one who creates them. However, now that I think about it. The person wouldn't stop being President IC halfway through an RP.

I'm interested in seeing if I can get elected. The shorter terms appeals to me a lot. Before it scared me that the only way I would be able to leave the office without killing my character off or getting him impeached would be through serving the four years (let's face it, nobody wants to do in the CVnU that is ever evolving).

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#47 Posted by Lady_Liberty (10767 posts) - - Show Bio

@mourningsparrow: So if it is not something you personally enjoy, why seek it out and why behave in such an offended manner when you lose it? If you didn't like it, shouldn't this be a happy day for you? But instead you express feelings of offense and grievance. Are you happy to no longer be President or are you sad? This doesn't make sense ;-P

I'll bite lol. Its a slow day at work ;-P
Who do you want to see resign to make way, and why would you select that person for removal?

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#48 Posted by Titanium_Legion (79 posts) - - Show Bio

@lady_liberty: Couldn't the term just be decided by the POTUS's activity? It seems less arbitrary that way. If I was going to be POTUS, I'd be on for as long as I was active/had interest.

Just my opinion.

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#49 Edited by Lady_Liberty (10767 posts) - - Show Bio
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#50 Edited by _Reynard_ (3203 posts) - - Show Bio

@mourningsparrow said:

@lady_liberty: Not really. I had other plans, and my first day was fruitlessly defending myself against a bunch of vets on the Gothic matter. Believe you me, I would have given it up for the whole thing to end.

The thing is, the entire COE are vets. Get Dreadpool or Lichter up there, they're good enough writers and reasonable enough people IMHO.

Dreadpool started around the same time I did.

Lichter started a few months afterwards as Jack. I remember he had one of his first RPGs with me as Dark Vengeance and the Green Goblin archetype.