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#1 Posted by achilles100 (913 posts) - - Show Bio

So, Earth-2 evidently ended to approximately three readers. But, if you want specifics:

Power Girl resumes the name Supergirl. Helena becomes "Batman", and no, there's no operation involved, and Superman and new Robin question the choice briefly. Everyone protects the people...fade into happily ever after.

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#2 Posted by achilles100 (913 posts) - - Show Bio

@achilles100: More news, over in digital first, its Russian Supergirl vs Russian Power Girl in that period thing. Don't know any more than that, save that there appear to be three issues of that out so far, very far into the series.

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#3 Posted by CaptainMarvel4Ever (9890 posts) - - Show Bio

Huh, I doubt this is the last we'll see of her since she's a much beloved character

Shame about Earth-2, it was so good.... then Robinson left, and Taylor took over, and everything cool was swept away. So much lost potential, so many rich story lines that could have gone on for years and built something amazing.

At least those first 3 volumes will stand out as treasures in the JSA's history

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#4 Edited by scott_summers52 (1686 posts) - - Show Bio

It annoys me that she goes by Supergirl, it's a complete disregard to her character. I saw she was in a Harley Quinn issue in her classic costume and going by Power Girl, but I doubt that was in actually in continuity as nothing in that book seems to be. I'm awaiting the return of the classic JSA, Earth 2 was an abomination.

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#5 Posted by PowerGirlFan (314 posts) - - Show Bio

So, Earth-2 evidently ended to approximately three readers. But, if you want specifics:

Power Girl resumes the name Supergirl. Helena becomes "Batman", and no, there's no operation involved, and Superman and new Robin question the choice briefly. Everyone protects the people...fade into happily ever after.

I didn't catch where she named herself Supergirl.

@achilles100: More news, over in digital first, its Russian Supergirl vs Russian Power Girl in that period thing. Don't know any more than that, save that there appear to be three issues of that out so far, very far into the series.

Russian what?

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#6 Posted by achilles100 (913 posts) - - Show Bio

@achilles100 said:

So, Earth-2 evidently ended to approximately three readers. But, if you want specifics:

Power Girl resumes the name Supergirl. Helena becomes "Batman", and no, there's no operation involved, and Superman and new Robin question the choice briefly. Everyone protects the people...fade into happily ever after.

I didn't catch where she named herself Supergirl.

@achilles100 said:

@achilles100: More news, over in digital first, its Russian Supergirl vs Russian Power Girl in that period thing. Don't know any more than that, save that there appear to be three issues of that out so far, very far into the series.

Russian what? Yeah, evidently she's the villain who fights Supergirl, a clone created from SG. I haven't personally followed the series, (Bombshells?), but it has period reimaginings of the DCU female stars. Evidently both SG and Stargirl, (now dead), were either raised by the Russians, (not exactly a new conceit I'll grant you), or at least became involved with them, I'm not entirely clear which. And I think Ivo is involved as well, though I really can't recall for sure.

Whether or not this is good, or what the details are, I really don't know. Just that it exists, is currently going on, and of course the very basic central conceit.

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#7 Edited by Vascillator (360 posts) - - Show Bio

Like mentioned above in this month's Harley Quinn #16 she was appearing in her classic former self and all...now I dont know if this was some kind of flashback (didnt look like one), but its running under the "Rebirth" title.

So maybe theyll just put her back in place without further explanation.

No Caption Provided

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#8 Posted by achilles100 (913 posts) - - Show Bio

Like mentioned above in this month's Harley Quinn #16 she was appearing in her classic former self and all...now I dont know if this was some kind of flashback (didnt look like one), but its running under the "Rebirth" title.

So maybe theyll just put her back in place without further explanation.

No Caption Provided

Interesting. I thought you were referring to the old Harley Quinn/PG miniserie, not something ongoing. But yeah, I'd be game for just putting her back in place and pretending the whole thing never happened. Though she did get a couple of cool moments fighting Darkseid, and a couple of more fighting elseworlds WW, even those were kind of messed up so I'd live without the Darkseid thing being in continuity.

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#9 Posted by achilles100 (913 posts) - - Show Bio

So CBR had PG as one of ten character DC should consider giving a video game too instead of Batman. Interesting. Their reasoning being that she has all the powers and backstory of Superman but in a female package. The mentioned PG's relationship with SG, but didn't really explain why they chose her over SG as the one for that. I'm guessing she's a fresher presence, since she's barely appeared in video games, and then only as a alternate skin or non-PC. She is I know available as an alternate skin for Injustice 2 for the SG character, and is playbable that way, (though I have seen any images of the skin---if anyone has, please post, as I'm interested in any cosmetic revisions they may have done to her costume as they did with SG for the game).

It does highlight both a strength and a weakness of PG; that she's relatively fresh and unknown despite being around for 40 years or so. Only one animated appearance, none on any animated shows, (I don't count Galatea in JLU), and no TV or movie appearances, along with no iconic stories in comics, (at least none that feature HER as the primary protagonist), and no canon backstory.

A weakness because obviously she hasn't been featured as a main character. Many newer character have had much more play. Obviously DC and WB don't think of her as being able to carry anything. They even gave up on her solo title. It's been a decade since they last tried, (almost).

A strength in that it means she's fresh territory. A clever and competent writer and artist or clever creative people behind a video game, animated DVD or series, or even a movie could do something with her they could never get away with by using SG or Superman. It would be nice for someone to try and finally make that awesome PG appearance(s) she's needed but never had.

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#10 Posted by MrAugen (1006 posts) - - Show Bio

So CBR had PG as one of ten character DC should consider giving a video game too instead of Batman. Interesting. Their reasoning being that she has all the powers and backstory of Superman but in a female package. The mentioned PG's relationship with SG, but didn't really explain why they chose her over SG as the one for that. I'm guessing she's a fresher presence, since she's barely appeared in video games, and then only as a alternate skin or non-PC. She is I know available as an alternate skin for Injustice 2 for the SG character, and is playbable that way, (though I have seen any images of the skin---if anyone has, please post, as I'm interested in any cosmetic revisions they may have done to her costume as they did with SG for the game).

It does highlight both a strength and a weakness of PG; that she's relatively fresh and unknown despite being around for 40 years or so. Only one animated appearance, none on any animated shows, (I don't count Galatea in JLU), and no TV or movie appearances, along with no iconic stories in comics, (at least none that feature HER as the primary protagonist), and no canon backstory.

A weakness because obviously she hasn't been featured as a main character. Many newer character have had much more play. Obviously DC and WB don't think of her as being able to carry anything. They even gave up on her solo title. It's been a decade since they last tried, (almost).

A strength in that it means she's fresh territory. A clever and competent writer and artist or clever creative people behind a video game, animated DVD or series, or even a movie could do something with her they could never get away with by using SG or Superman. It would be nice for someone to try and finally make that awesome PG appearance(s) she's needed but never had.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWRJE2jzkgE

Has all the intro animations of her with the various characters. Toward the end can see her alternate blue outfit as well

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#11 Posted by achilles100 (913 posts) - - Show Bio

@mraugen said:
@achilles100 said:

So CBR had PG as one of ten character DC should consider giving a video game too instead of Batman. Interesting. Their reasoning being that she has all the powers and backstory of Superman but in a female package. The mentioned PG's relationship with SG, but didn't really explain why they chose her over SG as the one for that. I'm guessing she's a fresher presence, since she's barely appeared in video games, and then only as a alternate skin or non-PC. She is I know available as an alternate skin for Injustice 2 for the SG character, and is playbable that way, (though I have seen any images of the skin---if anyone has, please post, as I'm interested in any cosmetic revisions they may have done to her costume as they did with SG for the game).

It does highlight both a strength and a weakness of PG; that she's relatively fresh and unknown despite being around for 40 years or so. Only one animated appearance, none on any animated shows, (I don't count Galatea in JLU), and no TV or movie appearances, along with no iconic stories in comics, (at least none that feature HER as the primary protagonist), and no canon backstory.

A weakness because obviously she hasn't been featured as a main character. Many newer character have had much more play. Obviously DC and WB don't think of her as being able to carry anything. They even gave up on her solo title. It's been a decade since they last tried, (almost).

A strength in that it means she's fresh territory. A clever and competent writer and artist or clever creative people behind a video game, animated DVD or series, or even a movie could do something with her they could never get away with by using SG or Superman. It would be nice for someone to try and finally make that awesome PG appearance(s) she's needed but never had.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWRJE2jzkgE

Has all the intro animations of her with the various characters. Toward the end can see her alternate blue outfit as well

Thanks! Thought the voice was a bit off, and some of the lines a bit cringe-worthy, ("you can't handle this much woman"), but overall, nice. I especially liked the Darkseid thing, the Canary one, Batman, and PG vs PG in blue suit.

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#12 Posted by MrAugen (1006 posts) - - Show Bio

@mraugen said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWRJE2jzkgE

Has all the intro animations of her with the various characters. Toward the end can see her alternate blue outfit as well

Thanks! Thought the voice was a bit off, and some of the lines a bit cringe-worthy, ("you can't handle this much woman"), but overall, nice. I especially liked the Darkseid thing, the Canary one, Batman, and PG vs PG in blue suit.

The voice acting is just a bit flat for me, but I like the model design. I liked her interaction with Harley for a comic reference. I do wish they had more costumes for her, but I guess that may be DLC for characters as fighting games tend to do that.

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#13 Posted by achilles100 (913 posts) - - Show Bio

@mraugen said:
@achilles100 said:
@mraugen said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWRJE2jzkgE

Has all the intro animations of her with the various characters. Toward the end can see her alternate blue outfit as well

Thanks! Thought the voice was a bit off, and some of the lines a bit cringe-worthy, ("you can't handle this much woman"), but overall, nice. I especially liked the Darkseid thing, the Canary one, Batman, and PG vs PG in blue suit.

The voice acting is just a bit flat for me, but I like the model design. I liked her interaction with Harley for a comic reference. I do wish they had more costumes for her, but I guess that may be DLC for characters as fighting games tend to do that.

Eh, I thought Harley was an unusual complete miss for Tara Strong. Probably her worst voice acting choice I've heard. But it does showcase what a range she has.

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#14 Posted by RDClip (2792 posts) - - Show Bio

I really suck at fighting games, but I do feel the need to get Injustice 2 just for PG. I don't want to pay full price for the ultimate edition so hopefully I'll be able to find it on sale in a few months (black friday maybe)

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#15 Posted by MrAugen (1006 posts) - - Show Bio

@rdclip said:

I really suck at fighting games, but I do feel the need to get Injustice 2 just for PG. I don't want to pay full price for the ultimate edition so hopefully I'll be able to find it on sale in a few months (black friday maybe)

Yeah, I got the later edition of Injustice and I was happy for it. I expect in about a year they'll have a version with all the content packed in. Fighting games in particular seem to do this. In the past waiting 12-18 months has saved me a lot of money on games.

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#16 Posted by achilles100 (913 posts) - - Show Bio

So, looking at Injustice 2 a bit more, PG has of course two basic variant costumes, the white and the blue majority. Then IIRC, she probably has the same god and demon variants SG has. Also, while PG has the window, or a version of it, it seems to me you can gear her up with her own "S" shield...at a higher level.

Her ultimate move is of course merely the same as SG's. A shame she's only a premiere skin for SG instead of her own character with her own story...AFAIK we never see how or why she's in this particular universe, though her intro lines constantly mention it. Maybe the next game will throw PG fans a bone and use HER as a regular playable character instead of just a skin. I mean SG has enough stuff already, with a TV show, a playable character in this, at least one animated DVD, at least three animated series, (four if you count her one-off in Batman the animated series...the others being Superman the animated series, JLU, (and a brief non-speaking appearance in Justice League), and Superhero Girls), an ongoing solo, plus maybe two limited series....

PG has nothing right now, and probably won't have anything except maybe a role in JSA sometime in the distant future, (and that's not certain). Though a new solo with a better thought out direction and tone would be logical, based on the prior solo's sales compared to things DC seems willing to maintain, it's not going to happen, so why not try her in other media like video games and animated series and DVD's? That helped build some popularity for other characters...

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#17 Posted by MrAugen (1006 posts) - - Show Bio

So, looking at Injustice 2 a bit more, PG has of course two basic variant costumes, the white and the blue majority. Then IIRC, she probably has the same god and demon variants SG has. Also, while PG has the window, or a version of it, it seems to me you can gear her up with her own "S" shield...at a higher level.

Her ultimate move is of course merely the same as SG's. A shame she's only a premiere skin for SG instead of her own character with her own story...AFAIK we never see how or why she's in this particular universe, though her intro lines constantly mention it. Maybe the next game will throw PG fans a bone and use HER as a regular playable character instead of just a skin. I mean SG has enough stuff already, with a TV show, a playable character in this, at least one animated DVD, at least three animated series, (four if you count her one-off in Batman the animated series...the others being Superman the animated series, JLU, (and a brief non-speaking appearance in Justice League), and Superhero Girls), an ongoing solo, plus maybe two limited series....

PG has nothing right now, and probably won't have anything except maybe a role in JSA sometime in the distant future, (and that's not certain). Though a new solo with a better thought out direction and tone would be logical, based on the prior solo's sales compared to things DC seems willing to maintain, it's not going to happen, so why not try her in other media like video games and animated series and DVD's? That helped build some popularity for other characters...

My guess is people at DC headquarters see Power Girl as "redundant" because they keep pushing Super Girl. I disagree, but that seems to be the mindset right down to making her an alternate skin for Super Girl. I notice this even in toy or statue lines. Wonder Woman, Super Girl, and Harley Quinn seem to be mandatory and then Zatanna, Mera, Batgirl, Power Girl an others fight it out for remaining spots.

It's a shame as I think Power Girl had a bit of momentum, but World's Finest knocked the wind out of the sales and Earth 2 has done little to nothing for her. I'd love a new solo or JSA line, maybe the upcoming event with Doctor Manhatten in the DC Universe will open possibilities.

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#18 Posted by achilles100 (913 posts) - - Show Bio

@mraugen said:
@achilles100 said:

So, looking at Injustice 2 a bit more, PG has of course two basic variant costumes, the white and the blue majority. Then IIRC, she probably has the same god and demon variants SG has. Also, while PG has the window, or a version of it, it seems to me you can gear her up with her own "S" shield...at a higher level.

Her ultimate move is of course merely the same as SG's. A shame she's only a premiere skin for SG instead of her own character with her own story...AFAIK we never see how or why she's in this particular universe, though her intro lines constantly mention it. Maybe the next game will throw PG fans a bone and use HER as a regular playable character instead of just a skin. I mean SG has enough stuff already, with a TV show, a playable character in this, at least one animated DVD, at least three animated series, (four if you count her one-off in Batman the animated series...the others being Superman the animated series, JLU, (and a brief non-speaking appearance in Justice League), and Superhero Girls), an ongoing solo, plus maybe two limited series....

PG has nothing right now, and probably won't have anything except maybe a role in JSA sometime in the distant future, (and that's not certain). Though a new solo with a better thought out direction and tone would be logical, based on the prior solo's sales compared to things DC seems willing to maintain, it's not going to happen, so why not try her in other media like video games and animated series and DVD's? That helped build some popularity for other characters...

My guess is people at DC headquarters see Power Girl as "redundant" because they keep pushing Super Girl. I disagree, but that seems to be the mindset right down to making her an alternate skin for Super Girl. I notice this even in toy or statue lines. Wonder Woman, Super Girl, and Harley Quinn seem to be mandatory and then Zatanna, Mera, Batgirl, Power Girl an others fight it out for remaining spots.

It's a shame as I think Power Girl had a bit of momentum, but World's Finest knocked the wind out of the sales and Earth 2 has done little to nothing for her. I'd love a new solo or JSA line, maybe the upcoming event with Doctor Manhatten in the DC Universe will open possibilities.

I think you're very likely right. I've long noticed that "redundant" view, and for that reason have thought that some cosmetic tinkering with both the look and origin of the character would be in order so as to make her more palatable----not to fans, who like her already, but DC itself! Though I'd argue that even Mera and Batgirl are doing better than PG with DC and WB....both have either a solo movie or a part in a movie coming up. And Zatanna has had both live action and animated appearances before as well. Even Stargirl has had vastly more appearances in other media than PG.

My prescription is a simple change of costume; which they've done nicely with the skin in Injustice 2. Also a slight change in origin; make her from Krypton, but not from an alternate universe and the exact same person as SG. Instead, change it up somewhat; how exactly isn't as important as that she's NOT SG anymore. Elsewhere I've outlined a few of my ideas, none of which I insist on; as I'm fine with anything that's well thought out and contributes to the character while making her substantially different from SG in more ways than just name.

My ideas included making her the daughter of Zod and Faora who turned against them. Thus you have a dynamic that neither SG nor SM have; the bad parents and the child who rose above that. Or making her the elder sister of Kal-El, instead of his cousin. She could be younger in fact due to any of several reasons, Phantom Zone, stasis, or even being near the explosion of Krypton or some other reality altering event. In either of the two previous origins, perhaps she is a soldier who opposes Zod. She might even be his protege. Make her an ancient product of the House of El, frozen in time for some reason, perhaps an explorer. The daughter of Rao and Cythonna, the king and evil queen of the gods of Krypton. That has it's precedent with Wonder Woman's nu52 origin, Wonder Girl's (Cassie) origin, and of course Marvel's Thor. Though that might be problematic for obvious reasons. Even make her an experiment by Kryptonian genetic scientists, (similar in concept to both Doomsday or Reign---if not in execution).

The point is that IMO you're right, DC and WB do have a problem with PG in that they think she's redundant. I also think they've got a problem with her costume, (see Newsarama's article on "uncinematic" and bad female costumes from yesterday in which PG's classic costume is first mentioned). It does sort of turn off a portion of her potential fan-base, (which is curious since Harley's doesn't seem to). In any case, as is it's sort of bland, probably simple to draw but unexciting. Make just enough changes to solve those problems in DC's eyes without really changing her personality and some of the other things that are important to her character, and we might start seeing her again.

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#19 Posted by scott_summers52 (1686 posts) - - Show Bio

Where are all the other PG fans on CV? It seems like the same users lead these discussions every time. Are we the entire fanbase? I hope not.

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#20 Posted by achilles100 (913 posts) - - Show Bio

Where are all the other PG fans on CV? It seems like the same users lead these discussions every time. Are we the entire fanbase? I hope not.

Well, that's what happens when a character has no real appearances anywhere, at a time when comic book characters are getting more widespread recognition than ever. Only the hardest core fans bother about her any more. That would change...if only DC and WB would USE PG, and use her well. Look for example at the youtube videos of Power Girl in Injustice 2...there's plenty of enthusiastic discussion about her there. If she has a live action role in something.....or at least some animated appearances and legit appearances in games, rather than just as a skin...then she'd probably attract a lot of attention.

It just gets pretty discouraging to be a fan of a character who has no appearances anywhere, and when she does, gets no respect from the very company that owns her.

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#21 Edited by scott_summers52 (1686 posts) - - Show Bio

@achilles100: I agree completely. It's tough to be a fan of a character who is constantly underused, but it's also very rewarding when something does happen to that character. No one ever expected Guardians of the Galaxy to get a movie, much less one that made millions of dollars. That's why I hold on to hope that one day WB will decide to use PG in something and she'll gain a following, like Harley Quinn after Suicide Squad. In the golden age of CBMs and CBTV, anything is possible. Right now, though, I'd settle for just a comic featuring PG on a regular basis.

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#22 Posted by RDClip (2792 posts) - - Show Bio

@mraugen: @achilles100: I'm not sure why DC is banking on Supergirl so much recently. She actually isn't that popular (she's well known, but not really well liked) with her books never impressing anyone and her show tanking in the ratings. I even think that pre-flashpoint, one could argue that Power Girl was actually more popular among comic fans than Supergirl.

I don't really buy the 'redundant' argument as any Kryptonian hero who isn't Superman is kind of redundant too. There is room in DC's lineup for Power Girl (as a prominent JSAer or in her own solo book). And it isn't like DC only publishes books from proven high selling characters (do I have to remind anyone of the Green Team, Prez or Klarion books?) If DC thinks all those other characters deserve a book, why doesn't Power Girl deserve a book written by someone who likes and respects the character?

Ideally, I would want her to keep her original Earth 2 origin, but if it must be changed I will accept it. I've been playing around with a new origin for her as a Kryptonian test pilot for some hyper-drive thing who crash landed on Earth thousands of years ago and has been in stasis until she's found by Clark. In any case, Power Girl is just too good of a character to be left on the shelf for years by DC.

I'd love to see her get some multimedia exposure, but right now she just needs to star in a good comic book. I fear that someday the terrible Supergirl show will feature her as some stupid alternate reality evil version of Kara. That show has so little respect for it's source material that I wouldn't put it past them.

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#23 Edited by achilles100 (913 posts) - - Show Bio

@rdclip said:

@mraugen: @achilles100: I'm not sure why DC is banking on Supergirl so much recently. She actually isn't that popular (she's well known, but not really well liked) with her books never impressing anyone and her show tanking in the ratings. I even think that pre-flashpoint, one could argue that Power Girl was actually more popular among comic fans than Supergirl.

I don't really buy the 'redundant' argument as any Kryptonian hero who isn't Superman is kind of redundant too. There is room in DC's lineup for Power Girl (as a prominent JSAer or in her own solo book). And it isn't like DC only publishes books from proven high selling characters (do I have to remind anyone of the Green Team, Prez or Klarion books?) If DC thinks all those other characters deserve a book, why doesn't Power Girl deserve a book written by someone who likes and respects the character?

Ideally, I would want her to keep her original Earth 2 origin, but if it must be changed I will accept it. I've been playing around with a new origin for her as a Kryptonian test pilot for some hyper-drive thing who crash landed on Earth thousands of years ago and has been in stasis until she's found by Clark. In any case, Power Girl is just too good of a character to be left on the shelf for years by DC.

I'd love to see her get some multimedia exposure, but right now she just needs to star in a good comic book. I fear that someday the terrible Supergirl show will feature her as some stupid alternate reality evil version of Kara. That show has so little respect for it's source material that I wouldn't put it past them.

I don't buy the redundant argument either, but I think DC does. As for the SG show, or indeed any of the CW shows, I don't think you have to worry. They've had plenty of chances to bring PG in, what with the JSA-lite they used, and didn't. They also clearly use a multiverse, with a Jay Garrick, and still haven't even mentioned her, so I don't think they will.

What I'd like is for a JSA animated DVD or series or both, and perhaps a Superman Family one that included PG as well as SG. Or perhaps instead of SG. Or a Brave and the Bold style team-up DVD with WW or even Batman. It seems that sort of thing drives a character's profile. I'd love for her to get another crack at the solo comic book title, but honestly, they could have done that a long time ago had they wanted to. They've certainly given multiple tries for other characters selling no better and in cases worse, such as Cyborg, the Reyes BB, and even Supergirl herself.

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#24 Posted by MrAugen (1006 posts) - - Show Bio

@rdclip said:

@mraugen: @achilles100: I'm not sure why DC is banking on Supergirl so much recently. She actually isn't that popular (she's well known, but not really well liked) with her books never impressing anyone and her show tanking in the ratings. I even think that pre-flashpoint, one could argue that Power Girl was actually more popular among comic fans than Supergirl.

I don't really buy the 'redundant' argument as any Kryptonian hero who isn't Superman is kind of redundant too. There is room in DC's lineup for Power Girl (as a prominent JSAer or in her own solo book). And it isn't like DC only publishes books from proven high selling characters (do I have to remind anyone of the Green Team, Prez or Klarion books?) If DC thinks all those other characters deserve a book, why doesn't Power Girl deserve a book written by someone who likes and respects the character?

Ideally, I would want her to keep her original Earth 2 origin, but if it must be changed I will accept it. I've been playing around with a new origin for her as a Kryptonian test pilot for some hyper-drive thing who crash landed on Earth thousands of years ago and has been in stasis until she's found by Clark. In any case, Power Girl is just too good of a character to be left on the shelf for years by DC.

I'd love to see her get some multimedia exposure, but right now she just needs to star in a good comic book. I fear that someday the terrible Supergirl show will feature her as some stupid alternate reality evil version of Kara. That show has so little respect for it's source material that I wouldn't put it past them.

First, I want to make sure my "redundant" comment is understood not to be my view, but my estimation of DC's view.

The reason Super Girl is not seen this way relative to Superman is she is seen as targeting a distinct demographic. This is marketing thinking, Superman sells to males, so a female version would sell to females. Super Girl, from my perspective, is marketed often as "cute" making her easier to repackage to younger audiences. Power Girl being "sexy" makes it difficult for them. Harley Quinn gets to side step this by being "cooky" so she can be hyper sexualized in a live action film "Suicide Squad" and then sold to young audiences with her wacky hijinks. You are right, in a DC world that can have Batman, Batwoman, Batgirl, and Robin 1/Nightwing, Robin 2/Red Hood, Robin 3/Red Robin, and Robin 4 you can find ways to show how characters despite naming and power similarities.

The other element is simple, DC is uncomfortable with Power Girl. I've seen dozens of articles telling me because a strong female super hero left an impression on me, I am a sexist. This shift really seemed to take hold 5 years ago when I saw people complaining about costumes for female characters, how they should "cover up" more because showing skin somehow diminishes a character, even icons such as Wonder Woman. That explains the failed attempt to redesign her in the New 52, which was rejected by fans. Also, let us not forget DC even went so far as to make a "New Power Girl" that got hyped by those same critics. Violence never seems to be an issue, but we still have hang ups about sex in our culture and Power Girl has that hill to climb with some.

My hope in the post "Rebirth" era is we aren't so hung up on internet commentators and go back to appealing to fans who do things like buy comics and merchandise. I don't know if she needs a new origin, but I do think she needs a new start. Give her a new city, maybe some new supporting characters, and new adventures or adversaries to show off her character. My advice would be a mini series to test the waters and set an example for fans of how DC wants to present Power Girl. Show her powers and how she handles situations, her sense of humor, ultimately why she is a heroine to be admired and enjoyed.

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#25 Posted by RDClip (2792 posts) - - Show Bio

@mraugen: I know you don't share the 'redundant' idea and I agree that DC may have that view of PG for at least the last 6 years or so. The only way to show DC otherwise is to support PG in comics, but with DC literally giving her nothing, it is impossible to do.

As for the costume and her 'sexy' persona; I have a few thoughts.

DC changed her costume (and general body proportions) to be more modest in the new52. However, they made her have the personality of an idiot slut. PG may have looked sexy before, but it was never part of her character. Anyone would be hard pressed to find an instance of her in a sexual situation before n52. So, DC's (and Paul Levitz) idea for her in n52 was flawed from the start. If they got any feminist to read Worlds Finest, that person would throw it away in disgust after a few speech bubbles from slut n52 PG.

In any case, DC doesn't need to appeal to the wider mainstream audience for PG to succeed. Even though superhero movies are big business, comics books are a very niche product. DC (and Marvel, it seems) learned that appealing to the mainstream doesn't sell comic books. DC needs to appeal to about 40,000 comic fans for a PG book to be considered successful in the modern landscape of comics. I realize PG will probably never be a mainstream character and I'm fine with that. All I want is her to have her own good comic or regularly be in a prominent role in a good team book.

Finally, if DC can't get over her costume, I would accept getting rid of the boob window. It's not any more provocative than a cleavage revealing costume and boob windows exist in real women's clothing. But, IMO it is still a good costume without it. Amanda Connor's slight redesign great. It was simple enough to be easily recognizable and detailed enough to be realistic. Even without the boob window, the piping and lines she added would be enough to make it more interesting than just a white leotard.

I agree with you about a mini series with a fresh take on the character. I liked the New York setting in her solo comic because (oddly enough) DC doesn't really use NY very much. But I'd be open to seeing her in a different setting. PG was never like Batman or Superman and associated with one particular city.

A miniseries would certainly do her well. A 6 issue complete story with a small lead-in to a possible ongoing would be great. DC just needs to find a writer that cares; that is the biggest hurdle for success. I know a lot of people are ambivalent/don't like their take on her, but IMO Jimmy Palmiotti and Amanda Connor are PG's best chance right now. They obviously still love the character as they use her once in a while in their Harley book and they are pretty high profile with the success of HQ. But, if there is a decent writer that likes/respects the character and is passionate about writing her, I'd read it.

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#26 Posted by MrAugen (1006 posts) - - Show Bio

@rdclip: You're right, any character needs a chance, or two, by the company to get any momentum. It is incredibly rare for a fan base to will a character despite DC's wishes. I don't know the inner working of DC, but I'd be curious of anyone outside Palmiotti/Connor have pitched anything (Harley Quinn co-star) regarding her lately. Why I encourage mini series to gauge interest. I have no idea if anything fans can do in regards to means of communicated or if it'd be effective.

She's had issues back and forth and much of that is how people interpret feminism and project it upon the character. To me it always came down to agency, she doesn't concern herself with how other's view her. Her confidence allows her to dress how she feels and be comfortable in her own skin. It is fine to feel sexy and be secure in your appearance. Some women elect to cover up, some elect to show skin, the important aspect is they elect it. In characters it just has to fit personalities, and to me Power Girl's strength resides in being more mature and assertive. She wouldn't get caught up on another person's appearance, she has bigger concerns.

In terms of having a partner or being sexually active I'd say two things. First, she's a super hero who balances time and life and that is a challenge for any of them so any match would have to make sense. Second, she doesn't "need" someone and I would guess she'd be comfortable alone or having high standards. I'd finish by saying showing her as ditzy or stupid is the opposite of what I want and I wouldn't like her being the "lesser" in a relationship.

Costumes are about design, not function. I always get annoyed when people want a character who can fly or move at speed of sound to obey laws of physics. I care about appearance, balance, color. If they can manage a new look that looks great, fine, just make it striking and memorable and fit the character. People will always have differing views and this will be a divisive issue, I love the classic costume, but I am open to changes as well.

Lastly, if I did a mini series I'd keep it low key. Doesn't need to be an epic, but a character piece to establish traits Power Girl possesses. Sell her as a heroine, and then go from there. I want to root for her in her story and struggles so demonstrate that first.

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#27 Posted by achilles100 (913 posts) - - Show Bio

@mraugen said:
@rdclip said:

@mraugen: @achilles100: I'm not sure why DC is banking on Supergirl so much recently. She actually isn't that popular (she's well known, but not really well liked) with her books never impressing anyone and her show tanking in the ratings. I even think that pre-flashpoint, one could argue that Power Girl was actually more popular among comic fans than Supergirl.

I don't really buy the 'redundant' argument as any Kryptonian hero who isn't Superman is kind of redundant too. There is room in DC's lineup for Power Girl (as a prominent JSAer or in her own solo book). And it isn't like DC only publishes books from proven high selling characters (do I have to remind anyone of the Green Team, Prez or Klarion books?) If DC thinks all those other characters deserve a book, why doesn't Power Girl deserve a book written by someone who likes and respects the character?

Ideally, I would want her to keep her original Earth 2 origin, but if it must be changed I will accept it. I've been playing around with a new origin for her as a Kryptonian test pilot for some hyper-drive thing who crash landed on Earth thousands of years ago and has been in stasis until she's found by Clark. In any case, Power Girl is just too good of a character to be left on the shelf for years by DC.

I'd love to see her get some multimedia exposure, but right now she just needs to star in a good comic book. I fear that someday the terrible Supergirl show will feature her as some stupid alternate reality evil version of Kara. That show has so little respect for it's source material that I wouldn't put it past them.

First, I want to make sure my "redundant" comment is understood not to be my view, but my estimation of DC's view.

The reason Super Girl is not seen this way relative to Superman is she is seen as targeting a distinct demographic. This is marketing thinking, Superman sells to males, so a female version would sell to females. Super Girl, from my perspective, is marketed often as "cute" making her easier to repackage to younger audiences. Power Girl being "sexy" makes it difficult for them. Harley Quinn gets to side step this by being "cooky" so she can be hyper sexualized in a live action film "Suicide Squad" and then sold to young audiences with her wacky hijinks. You are right, in a DC world that can have Batman, Batwoman, Batgirl, and Robin 1/Nightwing, Robin 2/Red Hood, Robin 3/Red Robin, and Robin 4 you can find ways to show how characters despite naming and power similarities.

The other element is simple, DC is uncomfortable with Power Girl. I've seen dozens of articles telling me because a strong female super hero left an impression on me, I am a sexist. This shift really seemed to take hold 5 years ago when I saw people complaining about costumes for female characters, how they should "cover up" more because showing skin somehow diminishes a character, even icons such as Wonder Woman. That explains the failed attempt to redesign her in the New 52, which was rejected by fans. Also, let us not forget DC even went so far as to make a "New Power Girl" that got hyped by those same critics. Violence never seems to be an issue, but we still have hang ups about sex in our culture and Power Girl has that hill to climb with some.

My hope in the post "Rebirth" era is we aren't so hung up on internet commentators and go back to appealing to fans who do things like buy comics and merchandise. I don't know if she needs a new origin, but I do think she needs a new start. Give her a new city, maybe some new supporting characters, and new adventures or adversaries to show off her character. My advice would be a mini series to test the waters and set an example for fans of how DC wants to present Power Girl. Show her powers and how she handles situations, her sense of humor, ultimately why she is a heroine to be admired and enjoyed.

As a sample of DC's discomfort with the character, and for the very same reasons mention, (i.e. "redundant" and "boob window"), CBR, a site that often serves as a sort of mouthpiece for DC and the others offered up just such reasons as to why in their opinion Power Girl shouldn't show up on the CW show "Supergirl". They then offer up the opinion that she doesn't belong (almost making it sound like "deserve" instead of "belong"), on CW at all.

I think basing her in NYC instead of giving her a new DC style city all her own was a mistake, so I agree about that need for a city, supporting characters, and a rogue's gallery of her own. I do think that she needs a mix of her own bad guys, bad guys retasked for her, (such as for example perhaps the Elite, Dreamslayer and the Extremists...with whom she's had some history all ready, or perhaps the likes of Saturn Queen, probably the closest thing she's been given as an archenemy, ironically in an issue of Supergirl that suggested the two had fought a war through time for SG....a plot thread inherently more interesting and with more possibilities than pretty much anything PG has done on her own before EVER, and one that was promptly dropped, never to be spoken of again. Along those same lines perhaps also Ultraman, also in that issue, or even Superwoman). She also should have some powerful villains from other heroes....for the inevitable benchmarking that all big time superheroes undergo, Cyborg Superman, Mongul, or even Doomsday, all of whom SG has been given over the years. PG needs them too, and for the same reasons. I'd add to that a Zoom or Reverse Flash, for variety, or even Ares. And Darkseid AGAIN, this time with her being ultimately more effective.Then she needs some original bad guys all her own.

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#28 Posted by RDClip (2792 posts) - - Show Bio

@achilles100: I don't really put much weight in the opinion of some blogger. Just because they write for CBR doesn't mean their opinion matters more than any other reasonably knowledgeable comic fan. As far as I can see, most people who hate Power Girl literally only know the costume and nothing of her history or personality. If I didn't hate the show, I could probably do a write up on why Power Girl would work well on Supergirl.

I'd be fine with moving PG to a new city. As I said, she really has never been intrinsically tied to one city. I'd rather she be moved to a real city rather than a made up one. Made up cities in comics always seem silly and an artifact of the golden/silver ages.

Having her fight Superman or Supergirl villains furthers the redundant problem. I'd rather she be more independent of Superman and just loosely tied to him. She has always been the outsider in the Superman family (when she has been part of it) so I wouldn't use too many Superman baddies in her stories. When not using new baddies, she could really fight any villain in the DCU as she isn't really outclassed by anyone.

I would be interested in hearing what people think she should do with her secret identity. It is a really important part of character development that tends to be ignored by writers and publishers. I never really liked her being the head of a tech company. It is kind of cliche at this point for superheroes to run tech companies.

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#29 Posted by MrAugen (1006 posts) - - Show Bio

@rdclip: In the end the setting would be a nice back drop, but execution matters most. I don't dislike New York City, but I do feel giving something different would be a plus. In the US Las Vegas or Miami could be fun, maybe even go to Europe and be in Stockholm or Berlin. If they went the fictional city route one thing I'd like to see shown is the impact of a super hero on an area. Mostly good, but some issues as well as she sets up roots there.

I also do like her having her own rogues gallery. Important thing would be a good mix of physical and mental adversaries. I enjoy a brawl, but also like a mix of creative ways to deal with a problem.

My idea for secret identity is a small business owner. Maybe she runs a bar with some friends or something. I don't think I've seen many small scale business for heroes to run.

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#30 Posted by RDClip (2792 posts) - - Show Bio

@mraugen said:

@rdclip: In the end the setting would be a nice back drop, but execution matters most. I don't dislike New York City, but I do feel giving something different would be a plus. In the US Las Vegas or Miami could be fun, maybe even go to Europe and be in Stockholm or Berlin. If they went the fictional city route one thing I'd like to see shown is the impact of a super hero on an area. Mostly good, but some issues as well as she sets up roots there.

I also do like her having her own rogues gallery. Important thing would be a good mix of physical and mental adversaries. I enjoy a brawl, but also like a mix of creative ways to deal with a problem.

My idea for secret identity is a small business owner. Maybe she runs a bar with some friends or something. I don't think I've seen many small scale business for heroes to run.

Now that you mention it, the bar thing works pretty well. I can see PG being a cool bartender. And it would allow a host of eclectic characters to show up.

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#31 Posted by MrAugen (1006 posts) - - Show Bio

@rdclip said:

Now that you mention it, the bar thing works pretty well. I can see PG being a cool bartender. And it would allow a host of eclectic characters to show up.

Thank you. Was thinking could also account for odd hours of work/hero balance. Why I thought a Las Vegas or Miami could work adding some color. Keep it a modest place that fits her personality and she certainly can handle herself if anyone gets a bit rowdy.

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#32 Posted by scott_summers52 (1686 posts) - - Show Bio

I noticed Power Girl is now listed on Comic Vine's "popular wiki forums." Might not be there for long, but that's cool.

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#33 Posted by RDClip (2792 posts) - - Show Bio

@scott_summers52: I think there is some careful optimism from PG fans that she will get something from Rebirth. Even if DC reintroduces classic JSA with PG as a prominent member, that would be okay for me for now. Better than the Worlds Finest and Earth 2 nonsense that we've gotten for that last 6 years.

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#34 Edited by MrAugen (1006 posts) - - Show Bio

@scott_summers52 said:

I noticed Power Girl is now listed on Comic Vine's "popular wiki forums." Might not be there for long, but that's cool.

Keep the dream alive! I just wish DC would do something positive in the coming years with her.

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#35 Posted by scott_summers52 (1686 posts) - - Show Bio

@mraugen: Power Girl may not have a large fanbase, but she definitely has a vocal one. DC has been getting better at listening to the fans since Rebirth started, so I hope they notice our complaints soon. I don't know, if a comic like Superwoman can be continuously published despite low sales, PG could probably hold a solo title for a while. Right now, though, I'd just be happy with her being in a good team book (the JSA hopefully).

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#36 Posted by MrAugen (1006 posts) - - Show Bio

@mraugen: Power Girl may not have a large fanbase, but she definitely has a vocal one. DC has been getting better at listening to the fans since Rebirth started, so I hope they notice our complaints soon. I don't know, if a comic like Superwoman can be continuously published despite low sales, PG could probably hold a solo title for a while. Right now, though, I'd just be happy with her being in a good team book (the JSA hopefully).

Most characters that have been without a solo title for years would struggle to develop any sort of fanbase. I do agree though that expectations for book sales would need to be kept in check as I don't think Power Girl will smash any records. I do think their is merit of the value of each fan and their intensity. If they ever did another PG book I'd buy all the variant covers and multiple copies just to support her.

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#37 Posted by achilles100 (913 posts) - - Show Bio

@mraugen said:
@scott_summers52 said:

@mraugen: Power Girl may not have a large fanbase, but she definitely has a vocal one. DC has been getting better at listening to the fans since Rebirth started, so I hope they notice our complaints soon. I don't know, if a comic like Superwoman can be continuously published despite low sales, PG could probably hold a solo title for a while. Right now, though, I'd just be happy with her being in a good team book (the JSA hopefully).

Most characters that have been without a solo title for years would struggle to develop any sort of fanbase. I do agree though that expectations for book sales would need to be kept in check as I don't think Power Girl will smash any records. I do think their is merit of the value of each fan and their intensity. If they ever did another PG book I'd buy all the variant covers and multiple copies just to support her.

I agree. Depending on the timing and how true to the character a solo is, not to mention how much of a direction the title sets...I figure she'd do about 60-75 thousand initially. I think if the title's good she could keep a lot of that. And I did exactly that when her solo came around last time, even though I didn't especially like the Palmiotti-Gray take. I figured by buying the variants, I was supporting that better version of the solo I knew was right around the corner...

If only I'd known!

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#38 Edited by Teliporter334 (277 posts) - - Show Bio

Has everyone just forgotten that she makes regular appearances in the Harley Quinn Rebirth comics? Plus like mentioned before, its her pre 52 version. What actually happened was that back in the NEW 52 as PG and Huntress were on the way home, another Power-Girl ( From Alternate reality but not this Earth 2) appeared in the Harley comics. This was her Pre 52 self and she has become one of Harley's 2 best friends. Them being Power-Girl and Poison Ivy. She has made appearances as late as May of this year, lets hope they push this version of her to get her own series.

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#39 Posted by MrAugen (1006 posts) - - Show Bio

Has everyone just forgotten that she makes regular appearances in the Harley Quinn Rebirth comics? Plus like mentioned before, its her pre 52 version. What actually happened was that back in the NEW 52 as PG and Huntress were on the way home, another Power-Girl ( From Alternate reality but not this Earth 2) appeared in the Harley comics. This was her Pre 52 self and she has become one of Harley's 2 best friends. Them being Power-Girl and Poison Ivy. She has made appearances as late as May of this year, lets hope they push this version of her to get her own series.

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/power-girl/4005-4915/forums/tracking-pg-appearances-1877073/#5

I mentioned it here as idea was to keep tabs on her. The issue is being a guest star in another's book in an arc that is fairly inconsequential is not the substantive appearance many are hoping for. Most want a JSA with PG or PG solo monthly series, and I agree I prefer pre-New52 incarnation as a jumping off point.

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#40 Posted by MrAugen (1006 posts) - - Show Bio

I agree. Depending on the timing and how true to the character a solo is, not to mention how much of a direction the title sets...I figure she'd do about 60-75 thousand initially. I think if the title's good she could keep a lot of that. And I did exactly that when her solo came around last time, even though I didn't especially like the Palmiotti-Gray take. I figured by buying the variants, I was supporting that better version of the solo I knew was right around the corner...

If only I'd known!

I'd guess 40-50K range given how sales are these days in general. Big part comic companies have learned is the comics are as much a vehicle to get people to fall in love with characters and worlds as they are profit centers. You make good comics, I'll buy all sorts of ancillary purchases around it.

Yeah, I realize that run is a bit divisive here, but once you have context it seems to have been elevated. I'm thinking DC may shake things up a bit with the big Dr. Manhattan story line coming so possibilities are there.

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#41 Edited by Teliporter334 (277 posts) - - Show Bio

@mraugen: Yeah I loved her Pre 52 solo series (read it back in '09 so was still a kid, meaning the tits weren't the attraction) and I also want her to serve more major roles and be in a JSA comic and especially want to see her get a solo series again. I was just mentioning that maybe these appearances may lead to a jumping off point for the future. Catch my drift?

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#42 Posted by MrAugen (1006 posts) - - Show Bio

@mraugen: Yeah I loved her Pre 52 solo series (read it back in '09 so was still a kid, meaning the tits weren't the attraction) and I also want her to serve more major roles and be in a JSA comic and especially want to see her get a solo series again. I was just mentioning that maybe these appearances may lead to a jumping off point for the future. Catch my drift?

There are many attractive characters, so that alone wouldn't get me invested in her stories. The internet has no shortage of real or artistic depictions of the human form.

That's my hope as well. Palmiotti and Connor have been champions for her, so I'd be curious about their contracts and possible future projects at DC. There is concern how others may handle Power Girl. I had mentioned I'd love for her to get a mini series to set the ground work for a reset of sorts and jumping off point.

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#43 Posted by Teliporter334 (277 posts) - - Show Bio

@mraugen: I'm hoping that they try and make a more light hearted and fun solo series, similar to Palmiotti and Connor's work. I sure do hope that they give her more thought.

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#44 Posted by MrAugen (1006 posts) - - Show Bio

@teliporter334: I'm fine with a mix, I enjoy romps and adventures, but have no issue with stories with gravitas mixed in. How life is, a mix of fun and serious moments.

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#45 Posted by Teliporter334 (277 posts) - - Show Bio

Also appreciated the art style of their issues, it excentuated their story telling abd had fit perfectly. When the new team came abord it lost some of this magic.

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#46 Posted by MrAugen (1006 posts) - - Show Bio

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@teliporter334:I agree, it really sold the feeling of the character of Power Girl in a way I enjoyed. Strong, fun, empowered heroine I could get behind. For example, the expression, pose, and the use of color and line on this cover always makes me feel optimistic and buoyant.

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#47 Posted by Teliporter334 (277 posts) - - Show Bio

@mraugen: I know right!? As opposed to Sturges's team's rather muted looking colours and more serious models and art style.

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#48 Edited by MrAugen (1006 posts) - - Show Bio
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@teliporter334: The difference going from issue 12 to 13 is striking in several ways, but the top was definitely the color palette. The blues and reds of her outfit and the yellow of her hair "pop" on issue 12 with the gradient shading pushing the saturation. Issue 13 saw a more of a faded with a mix of gradient and cel shaded shifts in color.

Obviously a matter of taste, but for most heroes if they have color in their costume I like to see it on display. I commented after seeing "Wonder Woman" how the increase saturation really made her outfit more dramatic than it was in "Batman vs. Superman" when the reds almost looked brown to me.

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#49 Posted by Teliporter334 (277 posts) - - Show Bio

@mraugen: The thing is that when it comes to characters like Batman then by all means go ahead and make the palette darker, but when it comes to characters like Power-Girl then I don't think that it is a good idea. I mean it just doesn't fit with the material, Power-Girl is an inspiring and bombastic icon where as a character like Batman who isnt there to inspire but there to mainly fight crime. But hey thats just me.

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#50 Posted by MrAugen (1006 posts) - - Show Bio

@teliporter334: I completely agree, the Kryptonians all have bright blues and reds complimenting the world they inhabit. The imagery I associate with them, including Power Girl, is rising in flight with bright red capes in the breeze. With Power Girl you're right it goes a step farther because she is so extroverted. There is no issue having diversity of character designs and plenty of room for grey and black as well as red and blue. I prefer when the art matches the character, especially in solo series. I will say the JSA as a team has that golden age feel that I am partial to seeing them depicted brightly as well.