Worst Plot Device in Anime?

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DBVSE7

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In your opinion.

IMO.. "Heart of The Cards."

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buttersdaman000

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Power-ups in general. Shonens tend to abuse it...I know they're needed, but I just prefer anime/manga that use them for more than just a way to defeat the next villain (Hunter X Hunter, Yu Yu Hakusho, One Piece).

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kidchipotle

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@dbvse7: LMAO I loved the heart of the cards BS! It was just so nonsensical

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DBVSE7

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@arturocalakayvee: Everytime he said "Heart of the cards.. guide me" I just facepalmed and said.. "Here comes to bs card to win the whole damn duel that took half to two episodes to finish"

I think this is why Kaiba is often put on top of Yugi because he didn't need a plot device to be a great duelist XD.

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SymbioticSpider-Man

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I have a feeling you made this thread because you hate Yugioh.

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DBVSE7

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@symbioticspider-man: Not at all..

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wrongdamnside

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The Power of Friendship Powerup or the Sudden Epiphany Powerup

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jrupert1

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Hero-force and plot contrived villain challenge.

Hero-force is the equivalent of Loen-force and Chew-force. They win because they're the hero and are often special.

Plot contrived villain challenge is when they just have to have the hero struggle against the villain and each arc is like the next level of a video game. Where you have "this villain is the most powerful thing in the universe. Only the hero can defeat them, but they're pushed to the limit." At this point the hero usually gets an upgrade and defeats the villain. Only for the process to repeat again with a villain even more "powerfulest."

Two other very annoying devices is "the reveal." Usually something is revealed by a villain's exposition and it results in things being connected and conveniently explaining things. You know, because everything has to be connected, and to the hero specifically.

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zephyria

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#10  Edited By zephyria

The whole teenager thing. Why is it that our hero that's going to save the day from an earth-shattering crisis has to be a high schooler? There are lots of exceptions, sure, but there is a vast overrepresentation of that age group. What's even more awkward is when these characters are sexualized. It's just creepy, 20's-something guys.

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ParaChomp

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#11  Edited By ParaChomp

Oh the list goes on so I'm just going to say a group of girls wanting to get into some boy's pants for his magical powers or no reason what so ever (it's usually the later).

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Pizzaman

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The Power of FRIENDSHIP!!!!!!

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Karambit

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#13  Edited By Karambit

Sudden power up, destiny/prophecy, power of friendship...shonen anime is generally poorly written.

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those_eyes

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#14  Edited By those_eyes

@zephyria said:

The whole teenager thing. Why is it that our hero that's going to save the day from an earth-shattering crisis has to be a high schooler? There are lots of exceptions, sure, but there is a vast overrepresentation of that age group. What's even more awkward is when these characters are sexualized. It's just creepy, 20's-something guys.

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The_Legendary_SuperSaiyan_Hulk

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Time-Skips, a lot of the time it's an unreasonable gain of power for no real explanation.

The random memory loss villains have where they forget they have a power that should allow them to easily win.(Looking at you Aizen)

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PrinceAragorn1

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but I just prefer anime/manga that use them for more than just a way to defeat the next villain (Yu Yu Hakusho, One Piece)

lol, what?

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the_stegman

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#17 the_stegman  Moderator

Power ups in general. But especially Haki or Sharingan opness.

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Pharoh_Atem

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#18  Edited By Pharoh_Atem

Random plot power-ups that occurs in shonen when the main is getting creamed by the antagonist. Like when Clare actually defeated Priscilla, because of an ass pull Deus Machina crap out of nowhere - the ending was so much bullsh!t that I will forever hate Claymore for as long as I live. Yagi dropped the ball, picked it up and spiked it in our face to add insult to injury.

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@karambit said:

Sudden power up, destiny/prophecy, power of friendship...shonen anime is generally poorly written.

Not necessarily. It's just that the standard Shonen guidelines is what tends to restrict most shows.

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Useless female characters.

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buttersdaman000

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@buttersdaman000 said:

but I just prefer anime/manga that use them for more than just a way to defeat the next villain (Yu Yu Hakusho, One Piece)

lol, what?

Yu Yu Hakusho - Used power-ups very nicely and never abused them with different forms, evolutions or whatever. He had two major ones, with each adding on to the story in some way - the most notable being his makai transformation.

One Piece - Though I know it isn't as good an example as the other two, you hardly get training montages and the power boost make sense in the manga. For example, Haki was a natural progression for the story whereas boost like Kyuubi mode were largely superfluous.

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those_eyes

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Random plot power-ups that occurs in shonen when the main is getting creamed by the antagonist. Like when Clare actually defeated Priscilla, because of an ass pull Deus Machina crap out of nowhere - the ending was so much bullsh!t that I will forever hate Claymore for as long as I live. Yagi dropped the ball, picked it up and spiked it in our face to add insult to injury.

Not gonna lie the way Priscilla got beat was one of the most PIS things ive ever seen in my life. I remember seeing so may people rage when that happened. i think you were one of the people who i saw rage. lol

The only redeeming thing about it was seeing Tereesa again and her in awakened form.

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PrinceAragorn1

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@buttersdaman000:

Yu Yu Hakusho - Used power-ups very nicely and never abused them with different forms, evolutions or whatever. He had two major ones, with each adding on to the story in some way - the most notable being his makai transformation.

He had a pretty small story compared to most of the shonens for starters.. and how is having different forms 'abusing power ups'?

One Piece - Though I know it isn't as good an example as the other two, you hardly get training montages and the power boost make sense in the manga. For example, Haki was a natural progression for the story whereas boost like Kyuubi mode were largely superfluous.

Well, yeah. They get power ups without any sense. That makes things worse, if you haven't noticed. Luffy's way of ending fights is 'scream louder and punch harder'..

@sog7dc said:

Useless female characters.

like who? Most anime have a lot of female characters that are central to the story and totally not there for just fanservice.

Can't type that without laughing.

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Blade_R

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Naruto's Shadow Clones and substitution jutsus kind of make me roll my eyes at times. In the anime we see the character talking, move in or then get attacked, then "poof" it was actually just a clone that Naruto made that nobody noticed or a nicely cut block of wood that the character got from seemingly nowhere.

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Plot armor

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SOG7dc

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@princearagorn1: Lol as I was reading that I was like, "is...is he serious???" I'm currently 200 episodes into Naruto and I recall one instance where a female was truly useful. Thy're usually just damsels in distress, bitchy complainers, sex symbols or, more usually, a combo of the three.

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#27  Edited By Jestersmiles

saint seiya

Can't use the same technique twice on bronze knights even though we clearly had no counter for it the first time nor show why we are immune to the technique the second time.....so stupid.

Also explaining how my technique works before I use it...

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buttersdaman000

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@buttersdaman000:

Yu Yu Hakusho - Used power-ups very nicely and never abused them with different forms, evolutions or whatever. He had two major ones, with each adding on to the story in some way - the most notable being his makai transformation.

He had a pretty small story compared to most of the shonens for starters.. and how is having different forms 'abusing power ups'?

One Piece - Though I know it isn't as good an example as the other two, you hardly get training montages and the power boost make sense in the manga. For example, Haki was a natural progression for the story whereas boost like Kyuubi mode were largely superfluous.

Well, yeah. They get power ups without any sense. That makes things worse, if you haven't noticed. Luffy's way of ending fights is 'scream louder and punch harder'..

@sog7dc said:

Useless female characters.

like who? Most anime have a lot of female characters that are central to the story and totally not there for just fanservice.

Can't type that without laughing.

I don't see how the length of the story takes away from the strength of the writing. Yu Yu Hakusho simply had a streamlined story that ended on top, whereas, on the other hand, Naruto dragged on towards it end and Bleach is still doing so. And 'abusing power-ups' is a literal meaning. Naruto went through like 3-4 transformations, each with multiple weird power-ups/training montages by the end of the series. IMO, it was excessive, unneeded and harmful to the story and other characters much in the way additional super sayain forms were to DBZ. You never got that with Yu Yu Hakusho.

I don't think it makes thing worse. It's a shonen manga, so it makes total sense that they get stronger after each battle. The reason why I think One Piece handles this better than most is because it doesn't focus on the power-ups (more even playing field), everything happens as the story professes (no training montages), and it avoids the 11th hour random power up (Bleach in general) in favor of the much better 11th hour second wind. So yeah, I do think 'scream louder and punch harder' is better than 'randomly get stronger/obtain new power'.

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PrinceAragorn1

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@buttersdaman000:

I don't see how the length of the story takes away from the strength of the writing. Yu Yu Hakusho simply had a streamlined story that ended on top, whereas, on the other hand, Naruto dragged on towards it end and Bleach is still doing so. And 'abusing power-ups' is a literal meaning. Naruto went through like 3-4 transformations, each with multiple weird power-ups/training montages by the end of the series. IMO, it was excessive, unneeded and harmful to the story and other characters much in the way additional super sayain forms were to DBZ. You never got that with Yu Yu Hakusho.

1. Because, it literally didn't last long enough to explore various forms.

2. 3-4 transformations?

a) kyubi forms: he lost control, we saw it get worse to the point the kyubi nearly broke free, about killing him.

b) Learned sage mode, which was necessary so as not to rely on kyubi, and later a key point in the story.

c) Learned kcm by beating kyubi in submission, traditional jinchuriki style.

d) Became friends with kyubi, turning into a full bijuu, and learned to use it with sage mode.

e) Died, met with sage of six paths, and completed the destined fight.

I don't think it makes thing worse. It's a shonen manga, so it makes total sense that they get stronger after each battle. The reason why I think One Piece handles this better than most is because it doesn't focus on the power-ups (more even playing field), everything happens as the story professes (no training montages), and it avoids the 11th hour random power up (Bleach in general) in favor of the much better 11th hour second wind. So yeah, I do think 'scream louder and punch harder' is better than 'randomly get stronger/obtain new power'.

...Pretty sure training to get power is a lot more reasonable that 'ahh! scream louder and beat up the enemy' or the typical 'friendshipppp' one piece/fairy tail follow.

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buttersdaman000

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@buttersdaman000:

I don't see how the length of the story takes away from the strength of the writing. Yu Yu Hakusho simply had a streamlined story that ended on top, whereas, on the other hand, Naruto dragged on towards it end and Bleach is still doing so. And 'abusing power-ups' is a literal meaning. Naruto went through like 3-4 transformations, each with multiple weird power-ups/training montages by the end of the series. IMO, it was excessive, unneeded and harmful to the story and other characters much in the way additional super sayain forms were to DBZ. You never got that with Yu Yu Hakusho.

1. Because, it literally didn't last long enough to explore various forms.

2. 3-4 transformations?

a) kyubi forms: he lost control, we saw it get worse to the point the kyubi nearly broke free, about killing him.

b) Learned sage mode, which was necessary so as not to rely on kyubi, and later a key point in the story.

c) Learned kcm by beating kyubi in submission, traditional jinchuriki style.

d) Became friends with kyubi, turning into a full bijuu, and learned to use it with sage mode.

e) Died, met with sage of six paths, and completed the destined fight.

I don't think it makes thing worse. It's a shonen manga, so it makes total sense that they get stronger after each battle. The reason why I think One Piece handles this better than most is because it doesn't focus on the power-ups (more even playing field), everything happens as the story professes (no training montages), and it avoids the 11th hour random power up (Bleach in general) in favor of the much better 11th hour second wind. So yeah, I do think 'scream louder and punch harder' is better than 'randomly get stronger/obtain new power'.

...Pretty sure training to get power is a lot more reasonable that 'ahh! scream louder and beat up the enemy' or the typical 'friendshipppp' one piece/fairy tail follow.

So basically, it's proof of what the manga was vs speculation of what it could have been? It lasted 175 chapters. By that time Ichigo had already randomly gotten his Bankai. Naruto was still in good graces though. But still, judging by the author, I doubt Yu Yu Hakusho would've fallen into typical shonen tropes. And you proved my point about the transformations. It got ridiculous.

How are you comparing training montages to 'scream louder and beat the enemy'? They're completely different things. However, I do believe the latter is better than 'random power-ups/new transformations'. And I do believe natural progression is better than training montages that basically feel like filler. HxH does the training montage right. It fits into the story, and is used to progress the story past just the next villain. On the other hand, it seemed like Bleach/Naruto do one solely to learn a new power or master the random one they just got in hopes of beating the new villain.

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@buttersdaman000:

Yu Yu Hakusho - Used power-ups very nicely and never abused them with different forms, evolutions or whatever. He had two major ones, with each adding on to the story in some way - the most notable being his makai transformation.

He had a pretty small story compared to most of the shonens for starters.. and how is having different forms 'abusing power ups'?

One Piece - Though I know it isn't as good an example as the other two, you hardly get training montages and the power boost make sense in the manga. For example, Haki was a natural progression for the story whereas boost like Kyuubi mode were largely superfluous.

Well, yeah. They get power ups without any sense. That makes things worse, if you haven't noticed. Luffy's way of ending fights is 'scream louder and punch harder'..

@sog7dc said:

Useless female characters.

like who? Most anime have a lot of female characters that are central to the story and totally not there for just fanservice.

Can't type that without laughing.

Even worse, when a female character starts out pretty powerful and cool, then become "damsels in distress", afterwards becoming weak side characters.

Looking at you, Rukia.

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Marshall_Long

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saint seiya

Can't use the same technique twice on bronze knights even though we clearly had no counter for it the first time nor show why we are immune to the technique the second time.....so stupid.

Also explaining how my technique works before I use it...

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This so much lol, for a classic I enjoyed it, but majority of the fights were poorly done imo for that sole reason.

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primebonnick

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I gotta go with random power up and the power of feelings the MC can have a limb cut off but still manages to push back if not injure the antagonist for some reason. Still i won't complain when done right it is epic.

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Jestersmiles

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#35  Edited By Jestersmiles

@marshall_long:

Remember the whole if gold saints ever fought it will last a 1000 days?

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2 minutes of power spam.....

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kyrees

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talk no jutsu

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Marshall_Long

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#37  Edited By Marshall_Long
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SpitfirePanda

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Male characters who accidentally fall/trip/bump into girls and end up in sexually provocative situations. Fantasy armor grates on my nerves these days too.

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those_eyes

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Male characters who accidentally fall/trip/bump into girls and end up in sexually provocative situations. Fantasy armor grates on my nerves these days too.

lol whats wrong with that?

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SpitfirePanda

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@those_eyes: Eh, it just feels creepy and annoying to me lately, not in all instances though. Love Hina was built on this trope, but the guy always got the crap beaten out of him for it. That made it feel balanced a bit. I tried reading To Love-ru a while back because it's popular on mangahere, but... that's definitely creepy. That kinda stuff just doesn't sit well with me.

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those_eyes

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@those_eyes: Eh, it just feels creepy and annoying to me lately, not in all instances though. Love Hina was built on this trope, but the guy always got the crap beaten out of him for it. That made it feel balanced a bit. I tried reading To Love-ru a while back because it's popular on mangahere, but... that's definitely creepy. That kinda stuff just doesn't sit well with me.

Hmm... are you a girl btw?

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@princearagorn1:

or the typical 'friendshipppp' one piece/fairy tail follow

How can you criticize One piece for Friendship, when talk talk no justu exists? Hell naruto handling of friendship is worst considering how poorly developed Team7 is.

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#45  Edited By Pharoh_Atem

@those_eyes:

Not gonna lie the way Priscilla got beat was one of the most PIS things ive ever seen in my life. I remember seeing so may people rage when that happened. i think you were one of the people who i saw rage. lol

Yeah. I was one of those people. Claymore was, and probably still is one of my all-time favorite anime/manga. But the way it ended was horrid - Priscilla should of had a poetic death, not some random power up bullsh!t. The character was too well written and developed for that garbage.

The only redeeming thing about it was seeing Tereesa again and her in awakened form.+

Not for me at least. I'm one of those guys that isn't as big on Teresa as everyone else. She was okay, but in terms characterization and enjoyable, I would put several characters over her including Priscilla, Miria, Clare, Isley, etc, etc.

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#46  Edited By ScouterV

@frogdog said:

@princearagorn1:

or the typical 'friendshipppp' one piece/fairy tail follow

How can you criticize One piece for Friendship, when talk talk no justu exists? Hell naruto handling of friendship is worst considering how poorly developed Team7 is.

They arguably both suck equally in those aspects. Talk No Jutsu is just as bad as one of Luffy's speeches.