Who is the best grappler in the UFC?

We have a striker thread, so why not discuss who the best P4P grappler is in the UFC right now?

Jacare, Demian Maia, Werdum, Khabib, Frank Mir.

It sucks Jake Shields isn't in the UFC anymore, he deserves to be there.

I am way more knowledgeable and experienced on striking than I'm on grappling. Would love to hear @paytience's opinion on this.

Khabib's top-control, his hip-throws, his trips and his pressure, is so incredible to watch.

not too many impress me, I thought some of the Judoka's over the years were good, maybe the Japanese train their people best but yeah the Brazilian schools are still very good. Ben Askren and Hector Lombard looked like they had potential, Johny Hendricks and Frank Mir seemed kinda good but a little more crazy than good. Josh Barnet was a good wrestler and Fedor Vladimirovich Emelianenko was impressive but he wasn't trained in Jujitsu or anything claimed as the ultimate 'grapple' school, Fedor was just a really tough Russian guy who was a good scrapper, very good at throws and wrestling...really upset the UFC world more than once. I still believe the more traditional schools of grappling learn the best methods to grab, throw, grapple, if you want to learn throws lock do Judo, if the person wants to train in spins and kicks and dancing and acrobatic moves then do Capoeira, want to learn how to elbow and kick the do kickboxing, if you want to dump people and wrestle do traditional Wrestling etc The overall level in UFC leaves a lot to be desired, I still believe the specialist martial arts or specialize sports are better...UFC is the average of the next levels and in the end of the day UFC is still a sport people watch on tv and it is still entertainment

@fablecounty: You know there's a lot of Olympic medalists who have and do fight in the UFC right? As well as champions/black belts/tournament winners from all disciplines too?

I think the levels in UFC still has a lot to be desired

UFC is the next level down for them, or they just can't cut it against a younger sharper generation in their own sport...what to do? Go into UFC for a quick win, that is the sad fact sometimes and it is not leveling up...and the sad truth is many arrive in the UFC because they are near retirement in their specialized sports and I personally still believe the traditional sports are better

if you want to learn how to be the best kick boxer then go to Thailand, fight and learn kickboxing

want to learn throws, foot tosses, joint locks, hip throws then go and learn Judo

don't get me wrong, UFC has some along a long, long way since its early days in the 90s packed with bad Wrestlers, piss poor boxers, showoff exhibitionist karate guys who only knew how to flash out some fancy high kick and UFC has come far since its days of bar room brawlers who would upset the UFC world by storming in and knocking out one of the Brazilian Gracie schools...UFC is much better today but it still as a long way to go

I have seen Champions win UFC and still lack some very basic skills and have no knowledge of basic technique....in the end of the day UFC is still a show, it is still entertainment

@fablecounty: I don't know what to say to that. I guess we'll just agree to disagree because arguing in this case is pointless.

Just look at the early days of UFC, most people the likes of the Gracie schools fought did not have any clue about grappling, the wins were ridiculous

while a lot of people are better today, some at least are not too bad at say throwing, chokes or grappling but there is still too much hype and tv in UFC. The UFC sport is still entertainment and its still about the big freak show for television. Just look at the hype behind that one-punch man Conor McGregor, he is a boxer ok sure Conor McGregor is a good fighter but he's only learning stuff like Brazilian ju-jitsu and takekwondo much later in life. His fighting style is still based on 'boxing' and he has destroyed many UFC with 19 wins, I'm not sure McGregor would last very long vs say the American boxing, European boxers or world boxing championships. That's why I say if you want to do the specialized skill then move to the martial arts that work on those very skills, go to the sports that always work on that special technique. UFC fighters are not the best at what they do in grappling, they are good all-rounders and have skills in multiple styles that's what makes them so effective and dangerous.

@fablecounty: The first UFC was 22 years ago of course the competition level was not as good back then.

McGregors style is not boxing and the fact that you'd say makes me question your knowledge, he's got an amazing range of kicks. Boxing is really the only case you can use and that's because of the insane pay difference between boxing and MMA, there's champion kickboxers that do MMA, bronze medal Judokas, silver medal wrestlers, a large amount of Olympic team members and alternates, ADCC champions and many others that escape my memory at the minute.

@fablecounty: I also forgot to mention Henry Cejudo who is an Olympic gold medalist

amazing by UFC standards

how long would he last versus guys like in a straight up kickboxing match? vs say a Prime Ernesto Hoost, Gökhan Saki, Nieky Holzken, Badr Hari, the Scorpion Ignashov, Souer, Daniel Ghita, Simon Marcus, Andy Hug, Genki Sudo, Kaoklai Kaennorsinng etc etc

@fablecounty: Against heavyweights? He'd get slaughtered obviously, he could probably do okay in his own weight class but he's not the best striker in the UFC so I don't see how that's relevant.

Alastair Overeem won an, admittedly weak, K-1 Grand Prix. Tyrone Spong does MMA, Mark Hunt, Melvin Manhoef, Joe Schilling etc

@fablecounty: I really should have read your list properly because the fact that you listed Sudo is hilarious

Alastair Overeem is ok, he's a pretty good kick boxer but what is amazing is guys like him and say Cro Cop and other kicking boxing people...enter UFC, some of these guys had no wrestling, no throws, no grappling

and they totally destroyed the UFC field...it just goes to show there are worlds of different standards between these martial arts

the levels of 'striking', the levels of defense, blocking, evasion, kicking its seems to be very average in UFC against the other specialized martial arts

Sudo isn't a bad stand up fighter, I'm not saying he's very good or not saying a legend or anything but I might rank his kick boxing skill, karate/thai skill ahead of McGregor's

McGregor has never fought a kickboxing tournament ever - NEVER, ever to my knowledge, his thai or karate or kick boxing ability looks 'average' in my eye

that's why I doubt he would win and doubt he would easily defeat Sudo

I put in the bait and you took it...you rank him as a highly accomplished K-1 level....while I say he would have trouble against an average level K-1 or Thai fighter ...you took the bait and also possibly misunderstood my post

What I am saying is there is a whole WORLD of difference between UFC levels and skill compared to the more specialized skills where guys work to master their craft in sort like like Thai kick boxing and say Wrestling or Judo. Like I was saying UFC fighters are not the best at what they do in grappling, they are good all-rounders and have skills in multiple styles that's what makes the UFC fighters so effective and dangerous in their own ring.

@fablecounty: He's an MMA fighter though, did you not know that?

I don't think you did put in any bait lmao, I said McGregor would do okay in straight kickboxing.

I've proven that wrong over and over in this thread though because there are plenty of MMA fighters that are world class in specific martial arts

@fablecounty: Okay as a reply to your edited post;

I highly doubt your knowledge of MMA after reading what you've posted so I think this is pointless, tell me what evidence you need and I'll give it to you.

You're lacking in knowledge on the subject you're arguing so this will go on forever otherwise.

Best grappler's still come from the specialized martial arts and specialized, throwing, grappler, joint lock sports

Currently I might say that little Russian Khabib Nurmagomedov, I don't watch UFC these days...for me UFC is gone stupid and if I do catch anything it usually just a clip I seen on the net. From what I've seen of him Khabib is very good, he does seem to have great techniques from say Judo or Wrestling but he also seems to have a natural ability to duke it out and brawl, he might be one of the up and coming grappling stars of UFC...but I'm not sure as I don't watch the sport anymore and have no expert knowledge of what the UFC promoters and tv giants are doing these days to promote their next WWE/WWF vs Boxing thing vs kickboxing vs jujitsu thing. From what I seen of Demian Maia he was also very impressive, he has that style where he can typically throw people easily and wraps himself around his opponent like an Anaconda snake, most of the Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu schools have trained their guys to high enough standard. I honestly don't have much of clue of who is new and hype in UFC, who is cool and who is retired...because I refuse to watch or pay for UFC the only places I see the hype is on the net or other people buzzing about it on twitter etc I stopped watch when guys like Cro Cop demolished people in UFC and grapplers like Nogueira were still in the sport...I no longer have the patience to wait for UFC to figure out what it wants to be. I watched the Ronda Rousey fight out online of curiosity and seen her get her jaw kicked in by the other girl, that was the last time I seen UFC.

@fablecounty: While yes, the level of pure striking in MMA is not even close to Dutch Kickboxing or Muay Thai. But to claim that 'it sucks' or that it's not improving every year, is stupid. You are calling McGregor 'average' but I guarantee that he will knock you the f**k out in seconds.

But there are tons of Olympic level grapplers in MMA. Silver-medallist Yoel Romero, Gold-Medallist Henry Cejudo, BJJ Legends like Demian Maia, Jacare Souza, Roger Gracie, Fabricio Werdum. So how can you even say with a straight face, that there aren't any good grapplers in MMA?

Again youre missing my point

let's say the debate is about boxing, you point out that former medlaists, top guys and James Toney, Mercer, Butterbean, Darchinyan,...compete in mixed fighting or UFC...I am not denying this as a fact....on ocassion some high level peope from other specialized sports do compete....I do not deny this.....what I am saying is compared to the specialized sport their standards are now lower, usually the guys enter later in life as they start to slow-down, get older. Another clear fact that should be noted is they also learned their skills from other sports, they learn fighting from other martial arts not called UFC, they knew how to deliver punches from Boxing not UFC

.maybe he would, I'm not as quick or fast as I used to be and I picked up injures over the years...I never once made a ridiculous claim that I would ever beat McGregor, I said McGregor compared to other top strikers in specialized martial arts is 'average'...I am not comparing McGregor to other people within UFC

I am however saying McGregor as a top kick boxer or boxer maybe has average strikes vs some champion...McGregor hyped himself to be the next joe louis, rocky marciano, george foreman...in the striking world....McGregor hyped himself to be a dual-weight champion, add a few kg, put on some pounds lbs and become a multi champion, none of his shots really did serious damage to "Nate" Diaz

No doubt McGregor is good at what he does and he shocked the world of UFC but its not something I watch

I have not watched UFC in a while but from what I can tell it is still hype, and the levels of grapplers, ju-jitsu, wrestlers, judoka are still hyped

@fablecounty: How can you expect to be taken seriously when you call MMA UFC? MMA is the sport UFC is an organisation. Of course they learnt from other sports that's what MMA is.

McGregor hyped himself to be a dual-weight champion, add a few kg, put on some pounds lbs and become a multi champion, none of his shots really did serious damage to "Nate" Diaz

That's not really a drag on the UFC as Nate is a brilliant boxer with an Iron Chin,

@fablecounty: I get your point. You are completely wrong and most of your points are idiotic, is what I'm saying.

James Toney, Mercer, Butterbean, Darchinyan,...compete in mixed fighting or UFC...I am not denying this as a fact....on ocassion some high level peope from other specialized sports do compete....I do not deny this.....what I am saying is compared to the specialized sport their standards are now lower, usually the guys enter later in life as they start to slow-down, get older.

Really? You are using Toney, Mercer and Butterbean, in response to the names I gave. That shows how much you know about MMA. Toney and Mercer were spectacles at best, neither of them had more than one pro-MMA fight. The guys I mentioned (Romero, Maia, Cejudo, Cejudo, Werdum) are contenders in their division, and Werdum was the former HW champion. The fact that you even brought up Toney and Mercer, in response to the Olympic medallists and BJJ legends I named, proves that you know jack about MMA.

Another clear fact that should be noted is they also learned their skills from other sports, they learn fighting from other martial arts not called UFC, they knew how to deliver punches from Boxing not UFC

First off, it's Mixed Martial Arts, not UFC. UFC is the name of the organization, MMA is the name of the sport. If you are gonna be criticizing it, at-least learn the name of the sport.

And no s**t, genius. It's in the name, Mixed Martial Arts, it's a combination of multiple different combat-disciplines/sports. It combines Boxing, Muay Thai, BJJ, Wrestling, Kickboxing into a singular sport, so of course these fighters have individual coaches for the individual arts. They also have MMA coaches now, who teaches them to chain it all together, because that's the most important aspect of MMA, transitioning between arts mid-fight.

I have not watched UFC in a while but from what I can tell it is still hype, and the levels of grapplers, ju-jitsu, wrestlers, judoka are still hyped

All hype? No, you are just blind and biased. MMA has been a legitimate sport for 10+ years now. To claim otherwise is just silly, and this isn't the 90s anymore.

Also, are you serious? I just gave you examples of world-class BJJ'ers and Olympic medallist wrestlers who are contenders in MMA. How can you still insinuate that the level of grappling skill in MMA is all hype.

the UFC hype coming to an end?

.

here you go

http://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/off-topic-5/the-worst-implosions-in-ufc-of-all-time-1801172/

I made a thread just to piss the tv fanboys like you off

have fun

@fablecounty: I hope for your sake you're a troll because I refuse to believe someone could be this stupid lmao

Ronda Rousey

@fablecounty: You didn't answer any of my questions. You are either incredibly dense or a horrible troll. Anderson testing positive for anabolic steroids and Nick testing positive for marijuana in a stupid test, has got nothing to do with my comment. That has nothing to do with who's the best grapper in the UFC. Good job trying to change the bloody subject, you coward.

Go back, read my comment and instead of escaping my questions, try to answer them. I will post them again, since you have shown yourself to be unable to comprehend English.

• Why are you bringing up Toney and Mercer, knowing that they have been spectacles at best? They are contenders and they haven't had more than 1 MMA fight each. Bringing Toney and Mercer up, in response to names like Romero and Cejudo, is by far the most idiotic 'logic' ever.
• How are you still saying that grappling is not at a high-level in MMA, when there are BJJ legends like Maia, Souza, Roger Gracie, and Fabricio Werdum, that have fought in Mixed Martial Arts? And Maia and Souza are UFC title-contenders and Werdum is the former HW champ.
  Also there are Olympic medalists like Romero and Cejudo who are contenders in their respective divisions...so how can you even insinuate that the level of Wrestling in MMA is not at a high level.
• And stop calling the sport 'UFC'. It's MMA, not UFC. UFC is the organization. The fact that you called Fedor, a UFC fighter, knows how little you know about MMA.

If you can channel your very limited powers of comprehension and actually try and engage in an intelligent debate, instead of going off on a tangent and changing the topic to irrelevant subject matters, we can continue.

Got Clinched fracked by DJ :p

Roger Gracie is probably the best pure grappler to have ever fought in the UFC.

There are too many people xD

Uh...you are replying to the wrong dude, amigo. XD

Jacare, Werdum, Tanquinho, Drysdale, Maia, Antonio Carlos Junior, Gilbert Burns, Ryan Hall etc.

Khabib is the best by far.

If you're going for pure bjj guys then it's Maia.

Kebab

Khabib seems like the Best Grappler. Jacare is amazing as well. Demian Maia is also really great.

Khabib.

Your mom at bed grapple my dick better than anyone in the octagon.