Who is more overrated? Wolverine or Spider-Man?

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ChaoticMadness

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Poll: Who is more overrated? Wolverine or Spider-Man? (73 votes)

Spider-Man 27%
Wolverine 71%

Choose if you want to. I will not give my opinion.

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Cable_Extreme

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@wolverine08: I defined over rated (his skill). Reason being is here on the vine people will argue that any bad showing is him being lazy and any good showing is his true skill. There is no room for consistency.

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albusan

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@wolverine08: Wolverine runs into situations all the time in multiple books where skill would have made the situation better for himself. He gets embarrased all the time by charging head first into a battle with his taking punishment strategy. It's ridiculous how unskilled he actually he is.

Educate yourself.

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Cable_Extreme

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@monsterstomp: he is overrated, reasons why refer to my post above.

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Wolverine008

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@wolverine08: I defined over rated (his skill). Reason being is here on the vine people will argue that any bad showing is him being lazy and any good showing is his true skill. There is no room for consistency.

That's really just your perception of how people argue for Wolverine on here. If authors have expounded on Wolverine being lazy using his skill, it's not really reaching to attribute a situation wherein he didn't use his skill being due to the aforementioned laziness.

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Cable_Extreme

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#55  Edited By Cable_Extreme

@albusan: and then they bring up a quote where it says Wolverine is "lazy" to justify the usual showings of him tunnel visioning people with /claw spam.

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albusan

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#56  Edited By albusan

@cable_extreme: He's officially addictid to being embarrassed on a constant basis. His strategy fails more then works. No reason at all to get hurt as much as he does if he was actually skilled enough.

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Cable_Extreme

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@wolverine08: in other situations that were not from the same writer, or it could have simply been an exaggeration or even comic relief. To take a rather harmless quote and make such a big claim about it, it is extremely overrating the character in my opinion.

The fact is, he usually runs into fights relying on his healing factor and slashing away, but in any battle on comicvine he is automatically going to supposedly fight without that consistent characteristic. This is why he is more overrated than Spider-man. Spider-man can web incap people, his Spidey sense is actually "that" good, that isn't really over rating him.

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Cable_Extreme

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@albusan: well people use arguments of him beating people who don't have his healing factor, and indestructible bone structure as skill feats. However, when he loses his healing factor, he is completely useless, he even has trouble shaving due to how much he relied on it.

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Wolverine008

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#59  Edited By Wolverine008

@cable_extreme said:

@wolverine08: in other situations that were not from the same writer, or it could have simply been an exaggeration or even comic relief. To take a rather harmless quote and make such a big claim about it, it is extremely overrating the character in my opinion.

The fact is, he usually runs into fights relying on his healing factor and slashing away, but in any battle on comicvine he is automatically going to supposedly fight without that consistent characteristic. This is why he is more overrated than Spider-man. Spider-man can web incap people, his Spidey sense is actually "that" good, that isn't really over rating him.

Why would what Jason Aaron said about Wolverine being lazy furing Manifest Destiny be an exaggeration if he's been pointed to as in lacking discipline during other instances like with Shang Chi, Ogun, etc? It's not really "harmless" if it's been blatantly pointed out by different sources

Spider-Man gets tagged all the time by ridiculously slow foes yet people act as if his Spider Sense means that he he's incapable of being touched. He often goes into melee fighting to begin a battle yet people act as if his first move in battle is going to be drown the entire environment in webbing. The martial talent he gained through Way of the Spider is really nothing more than basic compared to that of real top tier fighters yet on battle forums talk about how much of a game changer it is for Parker. Wolverine does indeed get overrated, but acting as if the exaggeration Spider-Man's abilities can't get just as bad is just turning a blind eye to something that doesn't work for your case.

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Wolverine008

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#60  Edited By Wolverine008

@cable_extreme said:

@albusan: well people use arguments of him beating people who don't have his healing factor, and indestructible bone structure as skill feats. However, when he loses his healing factor, he is completely useless, he even has trouble shaving due to how much he relied on it.

You do know that Wolverine has regained his fighting skill without the aid of his HF in the arc you are referring to, right?

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i_like_swords

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@cable_extreme said:

@albusan: well people use arguments of him beating people who don't have his healing factor, and indestructible bone structure as skill feats. However, when he loses his healing factor, he is completely useless, he even has trouble shaving due to how much he relied on it.

You do know that Wolverine has regained his fighting skill without the aid of his HF in the arc you are referring to, right?

LMAO

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Cable_Extreme

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@wolverine08: well he has lost his healing factor more than once, and has shown signs of "lacking skill" like in the xmen danger room.

The reason it is over rating the character is that "a" writer cannot legitimize every other "bad" showing as him being lazy. That is a inconsistent claim to what I have seen from Logan's character.

It is peculiar that most every showing people use for Logan's skill he usually tremendously out stats his foes. Example is sparring Iron Fist, he not only has a huge stat advantage over an non amping Iron Fist but he has a metal bone structure that allows his punches to hurt much more and still his healing factor preventing Iron Fist from actually doing anything....

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Wolverine008

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@wolverine08: well he has lost his healing factor more than once, and has shown signs of "lacking skill" like in the xmen danger room.

The reason it is over rating the character is that "a" writer cannot legitimize every other "bad" showing as him being lazy. That is a inconsistent claim to what I have seen from Logan's character.

It is peculiar that most every showing people use for Logan's skill he usually tremendously out stats his foes. Example is sparring Iron Fist, he not only has a huge stat advantage over an non amping Iron Fist but he has a metal bone structure that allows his punches to hurt much more and still his healing factor preventing Iron Fist from actually doing anything....

Wolverine's showing in the Danger Room is consistent with the instances wherein he has lost his healing factor. He needs time to adjust before he gets back into the flow like with his recent showings under Charles Soule with no healing factor. There are numerous examples wherein Wolverine's skill isn't related to his physical capabilities. Him doing things like mastering alien martial arts from the Kree Empire, having enough knowledge with pressure points to drop aliens with different physiology than that of humans, being able to create aneurysms with kicks to specific areas of a person's leg, knowing how to break down the form of a master swordsman like Silver Samurai, knowing counters to mystical martial arts that attack your soul, knowing how to identify weak points with just a glance, knowing various submission techniques, etc. are all showings of skill that have nothing to do with physicals

Your Iron Fist example is flawed in that Danny didn;t have to KO Wolverine to win, but just knock him on the ground, and it be countered by examples like Wolverine beating Captain America with no healing factor, him beating martial artists in the Black Dragon Death Squad that outstated hum physically and could use their skill to attack souls, etc.

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rogueshadow

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#64 rogueshadow  Moderator

Both are awesome.

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Cable_Extreme

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#65  Edited By Cable_Extreme

@wolverine08: but you are ignoring Logan having a significant stat advantage since Iron Fist wasn't using his chi....

Show me feats (without his healing factor) that are in the same tier of his feats with his healing factor. You can't, his stats (healing/durability) heavily carry him, and people start to think his skill is what got him there when in reality, his healing factor did.

You said he got his skill back, that is fine, but he still had BP dance around him.

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Wolverine008

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@wolverine08: but you are ignoring Logan having a significant stat advantage since Iron Fist wasn't using his chi....

Show me feats (without his healing factor) that are in the same tier of his feats with his healing factor. You can't, his stats (healing/durability) heavily carry him, and people start to think his skill is what got him there when in reality, his healing factor did.

You said he got his skill back, that is fine, but he still had BP dance around him.

I didn't ignore that, I just pointed out that the point of the match was to knock one another on the ground, so the fact that Danny couldn't KO James didn't matter.

I already pointed out several showings of technical knowledge and martial mastery that have nothing to do with the HF(Being able to master alien martial arts, putting down people with non human physiology via pressure points, breaking the form of a swordsman like Silver Samurai, etc.) In terms of combat, he's beaten separately both Captain America and Winter Soldier with a taxed healing factor(Against Bucky his hands were tied behind his back), he's beaten the Black Dragon Death Squad, a group of superhumans with martial arts advanced enough to attack souls even though their attacks completely bypassed his durability, making his HF useless in that situation, etc.

That was before he got the skill back in the Death of Wolverine arc..... Have you read the entire story in question?

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Cable_Extreme

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@wolverine08: you are ignoring the advantage Wolverine has with his bone structure, how is Iron Fist suppose to knock Logan down when Kaine noted how he almost broke his hand on Logan. See, this is a perfect example of what I mean, looking past Logan's stats and claiming he beats people with skill.

And you bring up examples of "taxed healing factors" that wasn't my question, his healing factor was still a factor, just less of one.

And I disagree with Logan gaining his skill back, because of the way you are using it. His skill with his healing factor involved damage soaking, which was a reliance upon his healing factor. He can't do that in this specific instance, and it don't believe he has the same fighting ability either. Without his stats, he is not extremely impressive and overrated.

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Wolverine008

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#68  Edited By Wolverine008

@cable_extreme said:

@wolverine08: you are ignoring the advantage Wolverine has with his bone structure, how is Iron Fist suppose to knock Logan down when Kaine noted how he almost broke his hand on Logan. See, this is a perfect example of what I mean, looking past Logan's stats and claiming he beats people with skill.

And you bring up examples of "taxed healing factors" that wasn't my question, his healing factor was still a factor, just less of one.

And I disagree with Logan gaining his skill back, because of the way you are using it. His skill with his healing factor involved damage soaking, which was a reliance upon his healing factor. He can't do that in this specific instance, and it don't believe he has the same fighting ability either. Without his stats, he is not extremely impressive and overrated.

Wolverine's been knocked down numerous times by blows by normal people. The skeleton just makes his surrounding body extremely hard, it doesn't mean his body is any harder to pick up, toss around, etc...

No, his healing factor wasn't a factor. When the healing factor is taxed, it stops healing his wounds actively and needs time to recuperate before it can go back to soaking damage instantaneously. That's why him beating Captain America and Winter Soldier is exactly what you asked for. You also didn't touch on the fact that the Black Dragon Death Squad had attacks that bypassed his healing factor and made his HF inconsequential but he still trumped them.

How can you disagree with him gaining his skill back when the Death of Wolverine arc showed him regaining himself mentally and fighting like normal without the healing factor?

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Cable_Extreme

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@wolverine08: his bone structure does make him harder to toss/pick up. Metal weighs much more than bone. But my point is, it is a significant advantage. Your defense is simply "it wasn't impossible for Iron Fist to knock him down", but the fact is, Logan had MAJOR advantages, which are being overlooked due to how overrated Logan is here on the Cvine.

The black dragon fight I didn't touch because I didn't read it, and they don't sound very familiar. What feats do they have so I can reference their skill level.

And his healing factor was taxed but wasn't completely off, or he would have shown signs like he did more recently of being afraid to shave. Unless you want to say that showing is inconsistent with his character.

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Wolverine008

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#70  Edited By Wolverine008

@cable_extreme: I feel like you're circling around things now, so I'll just touch on one point.

And his healing factor was taxed but wasn't completely off, or he would have shown signs like he did more recently of being afraid to shave. Unless you want to say that showing is inconsistent with his character.

Why do you keep using the shaving instance when in the same storyline Wolverine was able to get a hold of himself mentally and fight normally without the healing factor. If anything, you're hurting your point by referring to a story wherein Wolverine fights lithely without the HF.

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Cable_Extreme

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@wolverine08: because it is a showing of how he is after his healing factor is removed. If it takes him a lot of time to simply be able to fight, my point is, how would he do it in the instances you listed when you say his healing factor wasn't working? To say that he can beat Captain America with his healing NOT working is inconsistent with his future showings since it takes him a lot of time to be able to fight again. This is consistent with his healing factor being weakened but not ineffective.

I asked for examples of him without his healing factor, matching his level of skill when he had it, and you brought up him having a weaker healing factor, not without the healing factor. So provide me some scans from when he has regained his fighting ability that show he is as skilled as he is claimed to be. If you provide instances where he is WITHOUT healing factor and beats people like Iron Fist, or BP etc... Then I'll admit I am wrong, and insane. His healing factor (as far as i am concerned) brings him to thier level.

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Wolverine008

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@cable_extreme:

To say that he can beat Captain America with his healing NOT working is inconsistent with his future showings since it takes him a lot of time to be able to fight again. This is consistent with his healing factor being weakened but not ineffective.

If the healing factor is taxed, it can't help him. The only real difference would be that he would know that it would eventually come back, but in the here in now he would have to deal with not being able to soak damage like he always would. He's been able to fight in these instances, so that's why his showings with people like Bucky and Captain America are valid.

I asked for examples of him without his healing factor, matching his level of skill when he had it, and you brought up him having a weaker healing factor, not without the healing factor.

It doesn't matter if the healing factor isn't completely. So as long as it is weak enough that it can soak damage and he'll be downed by things normal humans would it becomes nullified as an advantage.

His healing factor (as far as i am concerned) brings him to thier level.

His showings of technical knowledge and skill (Being able to master alien martial arts, putting down people with non human physiology via pressure points, breaking the form of a swordsman like Silver Samurai, etc.) is just as good as both of them, so your opinion doesn't really hold weight.

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Lethologica

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Wolverine. The guy is way to inconsistent but people only tend to use his high end showings. (In terms of the battle board.) He goes from taking hits from Hulk, to getting beat by Street level characters. Unfortunately people think the Hulk feat is way more inconsistent.

As for the character in general, he's been more of a fan service character in the last couple of years. Plus his characters been showing up everywhere as of lately. Eh. I'm not necessarily excited he's dead (Which he really isn't in my opinion.) but I'm glad Marvel will be giving the character a break for awhile.

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the_stegman

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#74 the_stegman  Moderator  Online

Neither, both are good characters.

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Wolverine008

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#75  Edited By Wolverine008

Neither, both are good characters.

PICK A SIDE!

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the_stegman

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#76 the_stegman  Moderator  Online
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patrat18

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Wolverine...........08

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okayalright_44

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#78  Edited By okayalright_44
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Cable_Extreme

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@wolverine08: he can still take risk in that scene ergo since his healing factor would be restored in awhile meaning that he would be KO,d or Dead for very long. Not to mention he still had a better healing factor than those he was fighting.

In your last post, you are doing exactly what I claimed to be "over hyping" his character. Taking his best feats while ignoring his consistent character. And back this up with the quote of him being lazy... There is no room for consistency.

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cresShadow

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@cable_extreme: wolverine has a lot of skill but he for some reason rarely uses them.

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thing150

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spiderman is more overrated to the general public

but wolverine fanboys are the absolute worst, i once saw a guy that would not give up on arguing wolverine could beat thanos

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ElderSkaar

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Wolverine. Spiderman is a classic 60's hero. Wolverine is a newbie

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magnablue

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Both are under rated

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Jimmy_Rustler

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Neither are..

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Rouflex

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Both are Rip Offs!!!!!!!!!! *Mad*.

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Pilasy:La Voix d'un homme

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_Logos_

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#88  Edited By _Logos_

Neither of the two really feel that overrated to me on CV.

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Michaelbn

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#89  Edited By Michaelbn

Right now it's generally Spidey.

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Lan_Fan

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Wolverine sucks.

Fight me!

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Uttarashada

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Wolverine

Some People think Wolverine is a match for high tiers cause of his healing factor.