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Posted by mimisalome (5296 posts) 2 months, 1 day ago

Poll: Who is more likely to be telling the truth "Believe Her" or "didn do nutn"? (48 votes)

Believe Her 38%
“didn do nutn" 63%

What if a white woman told you that a black boy had sexually assaulted her and the black boy said he "didn do nutn".

Who would you believe?

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#1 Posted by GermanX (923 posts) - - Show Bio

The black boy, since he "didn't do nothing", a double negative which means he did do something to the White woman. :D

Jokes aside though, I would believe the white woman. Most rapes are committed by men and most of these goes unreported. Of those that got reported, most rapists got away scot-free eventually. I firmly believe that in the exceptional case of male rapists accused its always guilty until proven innocent.

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#2 Edited by mrmonster (12920 posts) - - Show Bio
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#3 Edited by kilgpmktra (706 posts) - - Show Bio

For situations like this, innocent until proven guilty

So many cases of false rape/sexual assault accusations that lead to innocent folks getting their lives completely ruined

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#4 Posted by NiteLite (1857 posts) - - Show Bio

The second and third posts are completely correct.

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#5 Posted by HeroUp2112 (17577 posts) - - Show Bio

If you believe FBI National Crime Reporting, and National Sexual Violence Resource Center statistics...though I've never factored in race to my research on this. Only about 2% of women are believed to falsely accuse an attacker of sexual/assault rape.
Now, THE standard is Innocent Until Proven Guilty in my book PERIOD. However, it has been born out that when women report it is rarely found that there is not sufficient evidence to at least prosecute the alleged attacker. Normally a conviction is levied.

There are all KINDS of variables of course, this is just the basics.

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#6 Edited by dshipp17 (5254 posts) - - Show Bio

@mrmonster said:

Is this in reference to that ridiculous deli incident a few days ago where a kid's backpack touched a woman and she thought it was sexual assault?

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/12/nyregion/woman-calls-police-black-boy-brooklyn.html

OT, I think I'd be more inclinded to believe the 9 year old boy going to the deli with his mom over a hysterical woman claiming she got groped by an elementar schooler.

I think this is a good case and point about how this issue can bloom totally out of control; essentially, first, this individual is calling an incident sexual assault versus what sexual assault actually is; this discussion came up about a year ago and some change between myself and other posters; this is similar to the matter of individuals that make up a very small fraction of the US population suddenly wanting US traditional to be suddenly shifted and revolve around them as if what is a dominate part of US culture being marginalized for their sake (e.g. how the mainstream media has treated the issue of one student complaining about school prayer and quoting the Ten Commandments and suddenly causing somewhat of a cultural revolution to erupt; even though the US is mostly Christian, the mainstream media has a pretend world where Christians in the US are like 3% of the population but atheists, people of very minority religious groups, or similar groups seem as if they're 97% of the population; and, then, suddenly, something like the 2016 election is such a big shock in those areas; and I say this being a Clinton supporter in that election; for me, civil rights tops almost everything emotionally, but, objectively, Christianity tops everything).

But, having said that, as with any alleged crime, the normal course of action is going to be to believe her first, in order to move forward with even an amateurish investigation, in order to tentatively prove him innocent or guilty, at which point, if he's thought to be guilty, things move into a real, official investigation, at which point, it is either a just process or a kangaroo process, either for or against the woman; you have wounded women (e.g. coming at this from a certain perspective, I always think of Family Matters and the dynamics between Steve and Laura through most of that tv series, where girls have by in large always had that experience where the boy was considered a dweeb and just never going to ever be good enough for her, where, going forward, she makes her social choices and consequences as the result of her choices take place; this dynamic stretches back to the beginning of human existence and just about every location on the planet), and men with them trying to put on a mating display for them or the like, who will automatically see the man as no good or conservative individuals who are just against most any social justice cause take over, or, a truly neutral individual interested in a just result handle the process.

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#7 Posted by BatmanPlusJay (2958 posts) - - Show Bio

The fact that you brought race into this, and then called the white person a white woman and called the black person a black "boy", and on top of that made the black guy sound like an illiterate box of oatmeal makes me think you're pushing a racist agenda.

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#8 Posted by FaradaySloth (5388 posts) - - Show Bio

Lmao love the answers, but the latter obviously. I'll believe any Bro before an accuser obviously.

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#9 Posted by MarvelandDCfan24 (6521 posts) - - Show Bio

Depends on the evidence if theres tearing and signs of assualt and the DNA matches the black guy is guilty plus theres interviewing witnesses and finding out what happened

Just because the black guys an idiot doesnt make him guilty

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#10 Posted by Outside_85 (23486 posts) - - Show Bio

Neither till someone shows me what happened... but apparently the black 'boy' is also 'slow' with that kind of response so I am more inclined to actually believe him. Plus atm there appears to be a kind of rash with white people calling the cops on black people for doing nothing.

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#11 Posted by Pipxeroth (8872 posts) - - Show Bio

@germanx said:

The black boy, since he "didn't do nothing", a double negative which means he did do something to the White woman. :D

Jokes aside though, I would believe the white woman. Most rapes are committed by men and most of these goes unreported. Of those that got reported, most rapists got away scot-free eventually. I firmly believe that in the exceptional case of male rapists accused its always guilty until proven innocent.

How much glue did you have to sniff to come up with this awful idea

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#12 Posted by GermanX (923 posts) - - Show Bio

@germanx said:

The black boy, since he "didn't do nothing", a double negative which means he did do something to the White woman. :D

Jokes aside though, I would believe the white woman. Most rapes are committed by men and most of these goes unreported. Of those that got reported, most rapists got away scot-free eventually. I firmly believe that in the exceptional case of male rapists accused its always guilty until proven innocent.

How much glue did you have to sniff to come up with this awful idea

Awful, you kidding? My country has kind of implemented it, and I think it works great.

All molest and rape cases, with the exception of victimized minors, will always have the accused's face and name revealed on the newspapers and tabloids before any judgment ever arrived.

This is partly to help anyone who is witness to come forward and testify if any, and partly to shame the accused so that it is deterrent to others who try to attempt the same crime.

Of course, the downside is that any wrongful accusation means the formerly accused will now face ostracization from his colleagues and friends. But that's only a small price to pay for the overall safety of the nation's women.

Note the keyword. Deterrent.

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#13 Posted by Pipxeroth (8872 posts) - - Show Bio

@germanx: What country are you from if I may ask?

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#14 Edited by TheInsufferable (2582 posts) - - Show Bio

Faced with an individual case, I won't believe any of their claims have more merit until they can prove it. Statistics don't justify passing judgement on individual cases without having any proof.

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#15 Edited by Sungsam (1849 posts) - - Show Bio

If I falsely accused you of rape, with me not remembering where and when it even happened with conflictions with many of whom I claimed are 'witnesses', with no evidence or suggestion, how would you prove me wrong? I don't need evidence after all. Just a claim.

If I said, I met a leprechaun riding a magical invisible pony, with no evidence, how would you prove me wrong? You denying my claim doesn't really tell what happens either, does that mean I'm right?

These two things, are unfalsiable claims. You cannot assume a claim is correct, just because it's impossible to disprove. The burden of proof must never shift from the party making the claim. Evidence, evidence, evidence.

Same with science, same with real life, same with law. End of story.

Rapes do happen, as a person whose country suffered systemic organized rapes by Japanese soldiers in WWII, I am not a fucking fan of rape at all.

If proven, rapists should be castrated or killed, but failing that, even failing a suggestion to a shred of evidence or implication, then that's just the way it is.

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#16 Posted by GermanX (923 posts) - - Show Bio

@pipxeroth: I will give you a hint: I am long term staying in a South East Asian country

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#17 Posted by KingLouie (2195 posts) - - Show Bio

Lock this.

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#18 Posted by MyLittleFascist (30512 posts) - - Show Bio

@germanx said:
@pipxeroth said:
@germanx said:

The black boy, since he "didn't do nothing", a double negative which means he did do something to the White woman. :D

Jokes aside though, I would believe the white woman. Most rapes are committed by men and most of these goes unreported. Of those that got reported, most rapists got away scot-free eventually. I firmly believe that in the exceptional case of male rapists accused its always guilty until proven innocent.

How much glue did you have to sniff to come up with this awful idea

Awful, you kidding? My country has kind of implemented it, and I think it works great.

All molest and rape cases, with the exception of victimized minors, will always have the accused's face and name revealed on the newspapers and tabloids before any judgment ever arrived.

This is partly to help anyone who is witness to come forward and testify if any, and partly to shame the accused so that it is deterrent to others who try to attempt the same crime.

Of course, the downside is that any wrongful accusation means the formerly accused will now face ostracization from his colleagues and friends. But that's only a small price to pay for the overall safety of the nation's women.

Note the keyword. Deterrent.

Anyone can ruin someone's life with a basic accusation and you call that a "small price to pay"?

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#19 Posted by Hypnos0929 (6201 posts) - - Show Bio

Until i see proof I side with the black guy

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#21 Edited by ourmanuel (6686 posts) - - Show Bio

@mimisalome:

Don’t lie to me OP. You watch Steven crowder and you saw his latest parody about the black guy who was accused of raping a woman.

Ot: bros before hoes.

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#22 Posted by KillerQueen (429 posts) - - Show Bio

I'd go with the individual who has proof or against the one that is lacking it.

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#23 Posted by ANTHP2000 (23122 posts) - - Show Bio

Nothing of 100% certainty obviously, but anyone who would support the guy here before anything else would do something plain dumb.

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#24 Posted by KalKent (1441 posts) - - Show Bio

@germanx said:
@pipxeroth said:
@germanx said:

The black boy, since he "didn't do nothing", a double negative which means he did do something to the White woman. :D

Jokes aside though, I would believe the white woman. Most rapes are committed by men and most of these goes unreported. Of those that got reported, most rapists got away scot-free eventually. I firmly believe that in the exceptional case of male rapists accused its always guilty until proven innocent.

How much glue did you have to sniff to come up with this awful idea

Awful, you kidding? My country has kind of implemented it, and I think it works great.

All molest and rape cases, with the exception of victimized minors, will always have the accused's face and name revealed on the newspapers and tabloids before any judgment ever arrived.

This is partly to help anyone who is witness to come forward and testify if any, and partly to shame the accused so that it is deterrent to others who try to attempt the same crime.

Of course, the downside is that any wrongful accusation means the formerly accused will now face ostracization from his colleagues and friends. But that's only a small price to pay for the overall safety of the nation's women.

Note the keyword. Deterrent.

Except it is not a small price to pay. A person can have their life ruined by false accusations.

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#25 Posted by Pipxeroth (8872 posts) - - Show Bio

@germanx said:

@pipxeroth: I will give you a hint: I am long term staying in a South East Asian country

You're gonna need to give me more info than that, I did some googling and couldn't find a single thing related to presumption of guilt in any South East Asian countries. Got a link to any articles...?

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#26 Posted by deactivated-5beeed406e9c9 (1473 posts) - - Show Bio

@germanx said:

The black boy, since he "didn't do nothing", a double negative which means he did do something to the White woman. :D

Jokes aside though, I would believe the white woman. Most rapes are committed by men and most of these goes unreported. Of those that got reported, most rapists got away scot-free eventually. I firmly believe that in the exceptional case of male rapists accused its always guilty until proven innocent.

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#27 Posted by deactivated-5beeed406e9c9 (1473 posts) - - Show Bio

@germanx: hmmm...interesting. which Southeast Asian country are you living in?

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#28 Posted by RL4 (1700 posts) - - Show Bio

If someone's claiming to have been sexually assaulted I'll TAKE THEM SERIOUSLY. That's the whole point of the movement dumdum. Nobody is asking you to outright believe them on blind faith. If you take someone seriously, then you handle it like a crime, and report it to the police, where a proper investigation can take place.

Partisan hack.

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#29 Edited by jagernutt (15498 posts) - - Show Bio

I'll side with the kid.

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#30 Posted by Lil_Remains (1535 posts) - - Show Bio

Make fewer bad threads

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#31 Posted by EdgeLord666 (351 posts) - - Show Bio

I wouldn't believe either and carry about my business.

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#32 Edited by GermanX (923 posts) - - Show Bio

@pipxeroth: @renthesupreme: actually, I have never said that the country I lived in assumed presumption of guilt in the first place, but it is doing something similar which I have already mentioned: All rape cases with the exception of minor victims will have the accused face and name publicised on newspapers for the public to identify so that people who knew the accused can come forth to testify. Legally they are still innocent but socially they are judged as suspicious or creepy at the very least. Isn't that the case for the United States or European nations? The accused will always had his face and identity revealed to the public and is always socially looked down on regardless of the judgement?

There had been a few false accusations but vast majority of cases had always been true, and for the few falsely accused it has been reported that they lost their jobs and reputations because of their cases but it wasn't a big deal. Never heard these people committing suicide over such falsely accused cases. Unlike women, these are men and they can take something inconvenient that is only temporary.

@kalkent: @mylittlefascist: small price to pay relative to the safety of females. Compare that to the United States where it seemed that rape culture is the norm or something like that. Yes, a falsely accused's would lose his job and reputation but over time he will regain it over time since such things are never permanent as compared to the long term impact rape can cause to the life of a young woman, and I don't see it why its going to be adversely imbalanced when such a proposed system catches the majority of the rapists while minorly inconveniencing the innocent for a short while.

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#33 Posted by Pipxeroth (8872 posts) - - Show Bio

@germanx: You said

I firmly believe that in the exceptional case of male rapists accused its always guilty until proven innocent.

Which I said was an awful idea, and then you responded by saying

Awful, you kidding? My country has kind of implemented it, and I think it works great.

That implies that your country has implemented a presumption of guilt when it comes to male rapists being accused, not that newspapers and tabloids just show the accused's face and name.

The rest of your comment is complete trash and full of falsehoods and bad assumptions. I'm pretty sure you're just baiting, but on the off-chance that you aren't, you are a terrible person.

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#34 Posted by GermanX (923 posts) - - Show Bio

@pipxeroth: i said "kind of" . As in its done in a social way and how things are legally done allowed or even encouraged that. People have requested for names and faces of accused to be withheld since this can be very damaging but the courts has insisted this is a better deterrent method.

And I am a bad person for promoting progress?

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#35 Posted by Pipxeroth (8872 posts) - - Show Bio

@germanx:

i said "kind of" . As in its done in a social way and how things are legally done allowed or even encouraged that. People have requested for names and faces of accused to be withheld since this can be very damaging but the courts has insisted this is a better deterrent method.

This isn't close to being the same thing as presumption of guilt.

And I am a bad person for promoting progress?

If denial of basic human rights is what you consider progress, yes.

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#37 Posted by BruceRogers (16723 posts) - - Show Bio

@germanx: I'm sorry but that's one of the most ridiculous arguments I have seen in a while.

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#38 Posted by Lan_Fan (12125 posts) - - Show Bio

Innocent until proven guilty.

Online
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#39 Posted by BruceRogers (16723 posts) - - Show Bio

Regardless of what my gut tells me, innocent until proven guilty is the only way to go.

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#40 Posted by EdgeLord666 (351 posts) - - Show Bio

Regardless of what my gut tells me, innocent until proven guilty is the only way to go.

of course a guilty little rascal like you would say that.

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#41 Edited by LDM (5355 posts) - - Show Bio

I will have to ask him some questions to find out, though I most likely would lean towards the woman initially.

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#42 Posted by SC (17763 posts) - - Show Bio

Hey OP/mimisalome. Long time no talk.

Based on our past discussions, I'd say I consider you a genuinely decent person. Open, honest, friendly etc. I am not sure if you know this or not, but when you phrase language like "didn do nutn" and are attributing it to a black person. To a large group of people, you are going to come across a certain unflattering way. I mean, you may not care about those types of people think of you of course, and if you are like me, then your intent of character matters contextually, and language is words is words... Just for additional context, using and attributing language like "didn do nutn" sounds like using and attributing language like "dindu nuffin" which is used and popularized on websites like 4chan's /pol/ often alongside stupid and blatantly racist caricatures of black people.

I know the language you use is different, it just sounds very similar, and evokes the idea of a crusty or edgy white nationalist conservative who adheres to a stern belief that in liberal eyes, black people can do no wrong, and even violent actions like murder are excused and apologized for by PC brigading, sensitive, leftists/liberal media and the like. The whole hypothetical question doesn't help context either. So just a friendly heads up, if you want to reach more people with your question, and for it to be received more sincerely by different types of people, you might want to avoid such phrasing. If you don't care thats fine too.

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#43 Posted by jagernutt (15498 posts) - - Show Bio

@sc:

Hi. Long time no hear.

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#44 Posted by mimisalome (5296 posts) - - Show Bio

@sc:

Im going for thematical (meme) consistency.

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#45 Posted by SC (17763 posts) - - Show Bio

@jagernutt: Hey there jagernutt!

Hope you are doing well! Glad to see you still frequent CV!

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#46 Posted by SC (17763 posts) - - Show Bio

@mimisalome: Cool cool! Hope you are doing well. Take care!

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#47 Posted by jagernutt (15498 posts) - - Show Bio

@sc:

Mostly only the off topic these days. It helps to keep me out of trouble. Funny thing is that most of the new comers aren't even that familiar with my former battle forum exploits. Lol

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#48 Posted by SC (17763 posts) - - Show Bio

As for the actual question... well, I'd say thats not really how the truth works. What I mean by that is, the best definitions of the truth/trueness I know of, deal with reality, and facts, and then going into the/those ideas and definitions more in depth, statements, events, that have occurred, observed, recorded, accurate. Confirmed, or validated as such. Demonstrated as such. As far as we know it. Know as in knowledge, not casually know in a colloquial sense. The past tense is important, because even if an event is incredibly likely, it shouldn't be considered the truth or a fact unless it actually happens. Like the our galaxies Sun still existing tomorrow. Incredibly likely, to such a degree that based on so much data that not many people would bat an eyelid if we were to claim it was a certainty and sure bet.

I mention this, because this hypothetical scenario, we have so little of the information we would actually need to establish the truth, that the question itself comes off as superficial fluff to an extent. If I were a more cynical and skeptical individual, I'd say it seems designs to try and trip up an individual who is both sympathetic to struggles that black people face and struggles that woman face, to try and register a 'gotcha' reaction. You know, expose the potential hypocrisy of the person. Like it belongs on some sort of "Top Ten Questions to Destroy/Confuse the SJW Liberal Soyboy's!!! GG KEK Game Over" list, made by some guy on Youtube who hawk's their Patreon every video, because their views are too real and controversial for Youtube monetization. Has a thumbnail of someone with dyed hair crying. Its a bit hard to take too seriously.

If I take the question at face value, I wouldn't believe either, since I wouldn't know. If I didn't know the truth, why would I want to believe either way. I'd be sympathetic to both, sexual assault and false accusations are horrible events to happen to an individual, and if the situation accommodated or if I were responsible for finding out the truth, I'd want to ask questions, and attempt to establish facts in order to do so. I would hope that everyone else would also think and react the same.

For some reason, people don't seem to realize that they don't have to take a positive stance either way with such a question. Not knowing, not believing, having a neutral stance or belief is fine. Replace the hypothetical with " A liar (Kevin) tells you if you don't give him all your money, and possessions, all your friends and family will die in two weeks. Another liar (Robert) tells you the same, except you are giving those items to him instead? Who do you believe? Well.. neither? Not enough information. One or both could be telling you the truth. I suppose if we had statistics about the thousands and thousands of individuals named Kevin and Robert we could try and make some sort of informed guess... but thats really not how statistics work as far as determining the actual truth of an individual situation. You'd risk your family/friends lives on the average truth index of Kevin's being higher than Roberts? Or would you want more information and context and if possible, get police involved to hopefully insert more context, evidence in order to establish whose more truthful/deceptive.

Drawing conclusions from statistics, you need to account for generalizations, trends, and then making predictions, you still need to account for the various variables and data used, and how that will affect the predictive models accuracy or complicate it. Also again acknowledging there might not be sufficient data to make incredibly accurate predictions to account for actual instances, let alone general trends. Meaning that if an event overlaps (a generic accusation of sexual assault is charged) lacks sufficient contextual data, it makes predictions even harder to form. Its why good science tries to account for as many variables as possible, have test examples, value consistency, repeat the same exercises over and over, the role of null hypothesis, etc

The lack of details in the example and the lack of specific studies and research on what very few details we do have here in isolation (to establish any sort of model capable of prediction)... thankfully in law, policing and legal systems, the better ones as far as countries go, we usually have much more details than this hypothetical. Those details and evidence matter a lot. The more the better.

Or you know, alternatively, the black guy did sexually assault her, but also threatened to rob and shoot her children, whilst victimizing himself, because of all the drugs he is on, paid for, by the actual hard working honest taxpayers. Then he ran away, because he's really fast and athletic, probably a basketball player in Middle School or maybe even High School if he got that far in education... plus he probably has expensive shoes, got to spend a welfare check on something right? Not like his father brought Tyrone 'dem' shoes. I mean its likely his name is Tyrone. Maybe Tyrone JR? We don't know the fathers name, so its hard to tell, not like the mother knew either right? Here's the twist though? Even though he did sexually assault her, the woman? She's probably a feminist. Like all feminist millennials who buy into the dominant liberal/left media's BS, she probably slutted it up, dressed herself in some cheap hooker clothes, and went to some nightclub because she is butthurt about Trump being President even though its been like 2 years. So because she is such a shallow and entitled white B&^$%, she needed to drown her sorrow and first world rich city girl problems with alcohol. She gets drunk off pumpkin spice and avocado lite beer. Some friendly well meaning guy (of caucasian descent but this doesn't matter) probably saw how wasted and drunk she was, and tried to help her get home safely after exchanging phone numbers. Except being the vapid arrogant b&^%^ she is, she wrongly assumed he was trying to grope and rape her, so she told him to get lost and then she staggered out into a dark alley where Tyrone was waiting... she couldn't see him because he is... because it was dark outside err...

In the morning, she was so hung over and drunk the night before, she didn't remember anything at all. However when have facts and logic ever stopped a liberal feminist w^$%$ right? So even though she has no recollection of the night, she's pretty sure she did get assaulted and that probably five guys sexually assaulted her. Thats what she will claim out of petty victimhood and delusion. Plus easy way to make money right? So yes five guys "assaulted her" Tyrone included, and that other nice decent guy (the white one, but that doesn't matter her right?) So they both consciously lied. Would you expect anything else from a %&%$^$ and a &%&%&&? Then again are they really at fault or is it the liberal media elite SJW soyboy Bernie Sander Hilary Clinton PC police lies and falsehoods that make woman and blacks act this way? Thats what some people want to hear right?

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#49 Posted by SC (17763 posts) - - Show Bio

@sc:

Mostly only the off topic these days. It helps to keep me out of trouble. Funny thing is that most of the new comers aren't even that familiar with my former battle forum exploits. Lol

Ah thats too bad for them, to be unaware of your great exploits.

The nature of online forums I suppose. Probably a lot of users that have been around CV for a lil bit who have no idea who I am. Change and growth aren't bad things though, people often leave websites when they lose interest. Those that still have interest remain. Or occasionally return for lil bits, case in point.

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#50 Posted by jagernutt (15498 posts) - - Show Bio

@sc:

I always figured that you and a couple other battle forum mods found shenanigans amusing.lol

I sorta miss it.