What is so wrong about female video game characters looking nice?

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TheOneWhoPullsTheStrings

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Saw a video on this, and read a few articles because it intrigued me, but there is now a bit of a controversy shaping up, here is one of them that should explain a bit on what I mean:

https://www.dailydot.com/parsec/gamergate-boner-culture-mortal-kombat-11/

Certain games like MK11 are trying to move to cover up many of their female characters, many people love that, the ones who don't mind them say something - then are kind of slandered here.

I don't see why anyone would be that upset anyway that a character happens to be revealing or ultra unrealistic body physique, it isn't just the women, but they are the ones being spoken of here in the game... Leave it be, it's fine.

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Yassassin

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Eh, it's just the times are a-changing. Most people dont care if the females are covered up some do, but the ones who are genuinely against it are too much of a minority to really change anything. Especially in a big series like Mk.

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TheOneAboveLife

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I don't understand it. The only concern I can see is from... parents. In which they should just be quiet and tell their 8 year olds to go back to Fortnite.

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removekebab

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#4  Edited By removekebab

Nothing, it's just the classic tale of women wanting to destroy the ideal instead of trying to catch up to it.

Though, in all fairness, female characters made by NetherRealm studios have always looked ugly. Western developers can rarely ever model a good looking woman.

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ImMadNice

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#5  Edited By ImMadNice

Someone post a picture of Mileena alternate costume from MK9

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emperorthanos-

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#6 emperorthanos-  Moderator

There is nothing wrong with it buy boycotting the game just cause the female characters are covered up seems a bit excessive. Which is what a handful of MK fans are claiming to be doing.

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Michaelbn

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I think you confused "half-naked and busty" with "looking nice".

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The_Thereminist

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I think you confused "half-naked and busty" with "looking nice".

Now DoA has some "nice looking" female characters but featured in way too many demon rape hentai animations. Oh those poor girls!

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TheOneWhoPullsTheStrings

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I think you confused "half-naked and busty" with "looking nice".

They aren't mutually exclusive you know. Nor does it mean that one is necessarily looking for more than just eye candy. This isn't prn, I know that, nor do I use it as such, nor do most care to do as such. However a hot woman who isn't afraid to show it or even flaunt it, isn't necessarily wrong here. To the puritans, they seem to be wanting to censor those sorts of things, which is the issue here that I find stupid.

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Michaelbn

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@theonewhopullsthestrings: ikr, but sometimes it goes too far like their bras just covering their nipples and such. Nothing wrong if someone wants to show it but when you have millions of players with different ideologies some may find it offensive. It's like saying we're going to reboot Magneto and let him hunt jews because being a jew meant Auschwitz and no one is going to give a shit since there is less than 10million jew.

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TheOneWhoPullsTheStrings

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@michaelbn: "but sometimes it goes too far like bras covering up nipples"... It's literally just a bikini. Go the beach of Miami or something, you will find plenty of real girls, and yes - more than just sex objects, dressing even more skimpy than many of these (slightly), willingly and realistically.

Nor is that too much. And in the case of selling this product to this sort of demographic, is this too much.

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Michaelbn

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@theonewhopullsthestrings: Well, I'm not American and I can't afford the money for US, but that's just beach or 'nude beach' not a deathmatch (lol). I'm not saying it's wrong, but sometimes it's just for marketing while offending some people at the same time.

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TheOneWhoPullsTheStrings

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@michaelbn:

Not really a nude beach. Bikinis are different, if there is a slit of anything covering the nipple and vag, then it's fine. And most of the people offended aren't even the people they are trying to sell to when they make such things - they weren't even the main consumers of these games, but they seem to have a larger and larger sway because of media.

And since we know it isn't wrong, and some people do enjoy it, and aren't wrong to - there then should be no reason not to have products like this on the market that will give them what they want if they choose. Let the offended enjoy another game rather than trying to change or drag down others.

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Michaelbn

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SC

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#15 SC  Moderator

Nothing. In a vacuum. As a general problem, it can be an example of pandering to a certain demographic, create characters that are shallow, undistinguishable, cliche, boring. Create balance issues. Negatively affect tone, lore, setting, credibility of a product. The problems and issues it causes can have their own repercussions as well (and their own positives and advantages) but its a nuance issue, often oversimplified and turned into a "two group" (those against blanket issue and those for) issue. Its not really though...

I am a fan of Tomb Raider games. The older games and the rebooted version. I thought original Lara Croft was super cool, attractive, (despite being polygons yes) sexy, tough, adventurous, intelligent (okay, yeah I guess kid and teenage me had a crush on her) and they eventually had a Tomb Raider reboot and I was skeptical at first, not because they were redesigning her physically to be more realistic, and dressed more conservatively... but because they were creating a younger Lara Croft who seemed more inexperienced and naive... and what I really liked about the original Lara was her confidence. Anyway some of my concerns were realized in the game, but they were also subverted too, and I actually ended up liking the game. I didn't find Lara Croft sexy or as attractive anymore though, she was much younger, and I was older, I felt more protective towards her... not a bad thing. The games were still enjoyable. Okay, hypothetically, lets put Lara in a khaki thong and blue ultra small light blue bikini top. How would this affect the game? Well for a lot of people, myself included, the tone of the game would change. I mean, I did think the original Lara wasn't dressed practically, but their are degrees here. Whilst I wouldn't necessarily dislike the game, it would be different and for many inferior. For a few reasons.

That being said, I can think of two games. Heavenly Sword which starred a character Nariko and X-Blades, which starred a character Ayumi. Both were in a more fantastical setting, with more fantastical combat, both were dressed in what could be said as skimpier attire than Lara. Heavenly Sword was great, X-Blades wasn't. X-Blades wouldn't have improved with a more conservatively dressed Ayumi, and Heavenly Sword would still be good if Nariko was Nathan dressed in a head to toe suit or Nariko was dressed more conservatively... but her aesthetic did work for the feel and sense of the game... so there are variables here. The same people behind Heavenly Sword eventually made another game, called Hellblade, and it also had a female protagonist. Was still a fantastical game, tone wise... but was also a much darker, and mature dark fantasy game, with mental health as theme/direction, with the intent of being serious and considerate around such a topic... Senua, the female protagonist would suffer character wise if her outfit was designed around being super sexy. In that context.

There are a lot more variables to consider. The creative aspects, the business aspects, the creator themselves, the audience. Is the game a single player, single character protagonist, or is it an ensemble cast or a fighter with huge character rosters. How are the male characters depicted? As attractive? As fantastical? As sexual? As diverse? Lots to consider and evaluate. I liked Jade's MK9 design, but I thought Sonya's was silly. i won't be boycotting Mortal Kombat though... but I was always more of a Tekken fan anyway.

Similar issue exists in comics.

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Alavanka

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Some people are prudes, and lose their heads over nudity. Some women feel insecure when looking at attractive looking women, even fictional ones, and whine to developers to make characters more ugly so they don't feel unable to compete. It's usually one of these 2. Or both.

I shouldn't have clicked on that link. Why do these SJWs insist on making up new phrases every other week? WTF is boner culture?

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#17 SC  Moderator

@alavanka said:

Why do these SJWs insist on making up new phrases every other week? WTF is boner culture?

It was the guy arguing that Jade is no longer sexy and attractive that 'invented' or used boner culture first in this story... I am pretty sure he wouldn't identify as a "SJW", presumably in this context, boner culture is people not being ashamed of playing fighting games to get boners. As to why he uses it, 'invented' it so on? I dunno, why do people use the term SJW, when its so broad and generic and tossed around so easily? Probably because its easier to generalize than address specifics.

I put boner culture in quotations because I doubt this is the first time its been used, just it got huge because this one guy (One Angry Gamer).

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Zetsu-San

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#18  Edited By Zetsu-San

If by "looking nice" you mean wearing skimpy outfits that don't make any sense for the characters, then it's kind of immersion breaking if I am being honest.

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buttersdaman000

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It simply doesn't make sense in most cases, and is obviously used as bait for sexually repressed nerds. I honestly don't need jiggling tits in my fighting games.

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HeroUp2112

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I'm very on board with @sc's comment (it would just take up a lot of room to quote it, I suggest reading it though).

I realize I'm probably in the minority but I've always thought it was really silly to have females in fighting or adventure games running around or fighting in what I call "battle bikinis". I understand they're marketing to younger or more hormonal males but it just never made sense to me (and as sc pointed out, the same is true with comic books and fantasy RPG and book covers). What woman warrior would run around fighting with all her vital organs uncovered and unarmored? It just breaks down the suspension of disbelief for me.

I'm not remotely a prude I just think it's silly.

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socajunkie

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#21 socajunkie  Moderator

Nothing, young girls escape from reality to live vicariously through an idealised version of their sex in Chun Li, Lara Croft etc in the same way boys do with Nathan Drake, Asura, Master Chief etc with a super version of masculinity and there’s nothing wrong with that.

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fabricolage

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Nothing. It's just hypocrisy that counters it and disliking men enough to let them suffer, ridicule, or embarrass them in fiction or through opinions. Like downplaying or ignoring stuff that happens on their opposing side through mental gymnastics, in the subconscious/conscious long-run.

Caring about fiction not being non-fiction is as legitimate and the same as sjw or whatever attempt is prevalent and clear.

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JohnCena69swag

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Meh. Not really a concern for me in either direction. I don't really see it as censoring anything. Basic animation like south park can get away with showing an 8 year olds weiner on screen. Obviously, you can't do anything close to that in live action. Technology is only starting to reach the point where 3d models can start to look like real people without too much suspension of disbelief. So yeah imo we are sort of in that gray area inbetween where it may or may not be ok.

Of course, there isn't anything objectively wrong with a video game character dressed in skimpy clothing. It just seems more out of place when the world starts growing and becoming more realistic. Hell, you can look at dbz as an example. No the animation still doesnt look anything close to lifelike, but the world became more fleshed out as time went on and became more realistic. So they dropped the whole anthropomorphic dog people and made it so there wouldnt be some random desert bandit like yamcha.

Same thing here, really.

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PatriotBear

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Just leave well enough alone. You don't like the game, don't play it.

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PatriotBear

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People wanting to control other people when it doesnt effect them at all. SMH

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TheOneWhoPullsTheStrings

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Just leave well enough alone. You don't like the game, don't play it.

Great, another non-argument I have issues with, right up there with "you cannot complain if you did not vote", "if you do not like it, leave" (especially heard around people like Colin Capaernick and complaints about the USA), and my favorite: "since you like to criticize it so much, I would like to see YOU do it better" (implying I have to be a game designer to criticize a game, or a football player to criticize a dumb game in particular, etc).

Non-arguments are all around us for these sorts of things. But why is yours, like them, wrong here?

Why shouldn't I have a right to talk and voice my concern about game I grew up with a bit, who liked mortal kombat characters the way they were, and saw no reason to have the puritans move in to the community I WAS ALREADY A PART OF. What, you think you can rightly say "do not talk about it, if you just do not like it, do not buy it", and deny me of the right for me of my voice in that community? NO. In fact, in order for people to have a voice with their wallets, they also have to voice their opinions enough where the company actually understands why they didn't get the money this time, and they aren't mislead - ie, voting with their wallets has to be understood by both parties for the fault in question first. Making news, talking about things, etc - is the best way to foment dialogues and proper changes that may help everyone involved, from the fanbases on up to the corporate money printers.

But just coming in here and saying that, that isn't helpful to anyone, and only appeals to a set of virtues some people may or may not have to win the argument based on those emotional ties, rather than talking about the original complaints themselves, here, that I have brought about this sort of puritanical culture.

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PatriotBear

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@theonewhopullsthestrings: I think you misunderstood my comment. My comment to leave well enough alone was directed toward the feminists and white knights trying to change other people's games. I was agreeing with you. MK was fine before, if they didnt like the scantily clad women that have always been a part of MK then MK just wasnt for them.

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King-Ragnar

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#28  Edited By King-Ragnar

Women don't have to be half naked and Busty to look nice.

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EICHHOLTZ

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sex sells

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tethadam

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#30  Edited By tethadam

I dont like sexualised video game characters. Infact I don't like anything sexualised.

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Mike_Fowler

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When you get crap like the women’s designs in MK9 (aka nonsensical to the nth degree) I’d say that people are justified in wanting them to dial back

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deactivated-5e5b16d537c03

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People should just stop bitchin' and play something else if they're so triggered. Rotf.

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Au_141

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Legitimately objectification.

Although most of the time now people just like complaining

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Black_Arrow

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MK 11 seems to have a different tone than Mk9 so It makes sense that the design are changed to reflect that new tone.

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solar_nerd

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Nothing.