Was it necessary to drop the Atomic Bomb on Japan?

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Lunacyde

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#1  Edited By Lunacyde  Moderator

Was it necessary for the U.S. to drop the A-bomb on Japan? Was it necessary to use two bombs? Was it necessary to use heavily civilian targets? I want to hear your opinion!

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Sparda

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#3  Edited By Sparda

Nah, it wasn't really necessary. Reasonable? Maybe. But they could have done several other things instead of drop the bomb(s). IIRC, Japan's Navy had already lost. the USA could have:
 
1) Cut off Japan's outside connections (IE: siege) until they would have had no choice but to surrender.
 
2) Demonstrated the bomb somewhere where they would not have been casualties to show the Japanese the power of the weapon
 
Just off the top of my head, some alternatives that could have been employed.

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spiderpigbart

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#4  Edited By spiderpigbart

Well, I don't like it.  But with out it, the war would not have ended well.

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deactivated-5ffc7df6492da

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Japan was willing to fight to the death, so if US marines would have launched a full scale invasion causulties would have been much higher for both sides. Japan proved that they were willing to fight to the last man and would continue to fight no matter the cost. So the bombs actually brought about an end to WW2 and I think they were originally supposed to be used on Nazi Germany, but they surrendered. In the end more people would have been killed if they weren't used.

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Sparda

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#6  Edited By Sparda
@Edamame said:
" @Sparda:  1. They would not surrender. Hence, the kamikazes.     2. They would not care.  "
1. If they're surrounded by the enemies' navy, their navy has been destroyed, and any attempts to leave the nation would be shut down, I think it's reasonable that they would surrender from the lack of resources. Their entire society would practically shut down. All it would take would the Emperor to step down and they would surrender on the basis that they would then know that they were "fighting a wrong war" (in accustom to their government), which he might do if his entire nation was close to complete destruction in the way that a siege would get it close to. The kamikaze point is a good one but those were soldiers, mainly. Normal civilians would only act like that if the Emperor did.
 
2. If they saw the power of the A-bomb beforehand, I'm almost 100% sure that they would care. They'd be aware of the ridiculous amount of death that could incur and would know that without their navy there's no hope of fighting back against that. Why wouldn't they care? This is interesting.
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Donnieman v5.1

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#7  Edited By Donnieman v5.1

I believe they dropped it to test it's capabilities.

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Lunacyde

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#8  Edited By Lunacyde  Moderator
@Edamame said:
" Would they have done the same to Italy or Germany?   "
No, simply because both had surrendered before the bomb was ready for action.
 
@Edamame said:
" @Sparda:  1. They would not surrender. Hence, the kamikazes.     2. They would not care.  "

Actually the Japanese government wanted to surrender and President Truman knew this.
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Son_of_Magnus

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#9  Edited By Son_of_Magnus

Yes if we didn't there would be no anime

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Lunacyde

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#10  Edited By Lunacyde  Moderator
@Edamame said:
" @Sparda:  1. They would not surrender. Hence, the kamikazes.     2. They would not care.  "

Japan's air force was completely destroyed by that point Kamikaze bombers were no longer a problem.
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Knightly1

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#11  Edited By Knightly1

Sadly many things done aren't necessary. This is one of them. As stated earlier, a pure demonstration of the bomb would've sufficed to scaring the Japanese for the moment.
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Donnieman v5.1

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#12  Edited By Donnieman v5.1
@Edamame: Nevermind the part about them making a point, I'll admit I didn't know where I was going with that. But think about it, what better way to test it than on actual humans. It's terrible, yes, but think about it. This is America... we're not angels.
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Lunacyde

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#13  Edited By Lunacyde  Moderator
@Donnieman v5.1: No you were right, it was to make a point. A point that we had this awesome new power and that we weren't afraid to use it. It was mostly directed towards the Soviet Union whom we already we in disagreement with. One of the reasons we used the bombs was to force Japan into surrendering before the Soviets pushed in through Manchuria and created a co-occupation.
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Sparda

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#14  Edited By Sparda
@Edamame said:
"That would not stop kamikazes or suicide attempts.  They could use other suicide attempts on the mainland of Japan and still attempt to attack America. The government may think that they would be fighting the wrong war, but not the radical military.  It was a radical and fascist nation, you know.  The mentality was that they would sacrifice their lives to serve their nation so that Japan would rule all of Asia. It is debatable that they would surrender even with the atomic bomb in existence. The military that is.     "
How could they have used further suicide attempts with a ravaged air-force and no navy? I mean, they could have, on the mainland, but those suicide attacks would have had minimal affect and would have hurt Japan more than anything. They did use suicide attacks, but when they counted. Attempting suicide attacks here would have been more "suicide" than "attack".
 
In the Japanese government, the Emperor was everything. The military generals did affect the Emperor and sway his influence, but if he stepped down, the soldiers definitely would have. I don't know how it is today but during WWII, the Emperor was literally a god to the Japanese people. If he stepped down, and therefore admitted that they had committed wrongs, then everybody who really mattered in Japan (IE: the soldiers, mainly) definitely would have as well.
 
Prior to WWII, Japan's increasingly imperialism (invading Manchuria and later China) proved that they did have a sense of preservation and continuation. To continue fighting after seeing the power of the A-Bomb would contradict most everything Japan did before WWII. The Emperor (damn, his name escapes me right now, but whatever, The Emperor sounds cool enough) would have had to have been completely insane to keep fighting after seeing that. Since Japan surrendered after the bomb's dropped, I think it's safe to say that he would have the judgment to do so had he seen their power in a location that wouldn't have killed.
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Lost_Rellik

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#15  Edited By Lost_Rellik

I actually did this topic in high school World History 3201 for a main essay question. There are reasons for and against, but we were taught it was best to ride the fence on it. I can get them from my notes if anybody wishs to see them.
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OmegaDynasty

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#16  Edited By OmegaDynasty

Yes, if we didn't then the plan called "X-day" would have been started, where we would have sent in troops, which would cost more lives for both countries. 

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Knightly1

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#17  Edited By Knightly1
@Edamame said:
" @OblivionKnight: That would scare the military who did kamikazes?
 
@Lunacyde said:
" @Edamame said:
" @Sparda:  1. They would not surrender. Hence, the kamikazes.     2. They would not care.  "
Japan's air force was completely destroyed by that point Kamikaze bombers were no longer a problem. "
Who is to say that they would turn to an alternative form of destructive suicide? "

Im kinda confused as to what you're asking but I'm assuming you're asking who would the bomb scare and I say the entire Japanese military. Again I' sorry if that's not what you're asking as I can't make much sense of what you're asking, my good sir.
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Sparda

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#18  Edited By Sparda
@Edamame said:
"Use imagination.  Suicide bombers, etc.  Any other form of destructive suicide.  The kamikaze soldiers did not truly care for themselves either, in my opinion. After all they saw Japan as better than the individual self.  They would sacrifice their lives for the sake of the Japanese empire no matter what. Even it if had minimal effect. "
They would have, but first they would have been commanded to. If they indeed did attempt to kamikaze without airplanes, after seeing how ineffective such a strategy would be I think that the commanders would rethink that position.
 
@Edamame said:
"Not when Japan invaded Manchukuo without the government's authorizing it.  Did The Emperor command them to bomb Pearl Harbor? "
Like I said, the military has influence over him. The Emperor didn't actually control the military at the time, since he got his living and wealth from the military generals. Whatever the generals commanded, the military would do. The Emperor is mostly just a figurehead.
 
That being said, if he had stood down, which I think he would have after seeing the bomb's, then it wouldn't matter what the generals thought or commanded. Every Japanese soldiers would have stood down as well, because it was practically in their religious beliefs to do so. If the Emperor stands down, or is removed, that means that he was in error, as that would be the only reason to do so. To the Japanese people, if the Emperor recognized that he was in error than the Japanese would (logically, given how it all worked) recognized that they had made a mistake as well and follow suit.
 
@Edamame said:
"You forgot Korea.  Hirohito.  It depends on their will power.  "
I know, I just put Manchuria and China out there because one of them is the most remembered of Japan's invasions and Manchuria was the first.
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Sparda

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#20  Edited By Sparda
@Edamame said:
" @Sparda: Actually, no. The Japanese treated the Koreans very poorly.  So, it should be noted. "
The Japanese treated everybody pretty poorly, IIRC, in WWII, but none of them matched the brutality that the Chinese endured.
 
When the Nazis think you're being too harsh, you're being damn harsh.
 
@Edamame said:
"Ever read Lost Names?"
Nope.
 
@Edamame said:
"Japan invaded Korea first, actually. "
I'm fairly certain that Manchuria preceded Korea. Do you have dates?
 
@Edamame said:
"Know this: They were even willing to keep fighting after the first atomic bomb was dropped on Japan.  "
That doesn't make sense to me. The Japanese surrendered. The only reason they didn't surrender after the first bomb was dropped was because they didn't have enough time to respond, given the attempted aid efforts in Hiroshima and the downing of the communication lines (they thought that the bombing was just a rumour, and with the communications down it would take a while to confirm it).
 
After that, they were considering in what way to surrender and the terms, when Nagasaki was bombed three days later.
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Sparda

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#22  Edited By Sparda
@Edamame said:

""When the Nazis think you're being to harsh, you're being damn harsh." What do you mean by this?  "

The Nazis actually tried to negotiate between the people of China and Japan because they thought that the bloodshed was going even a bit too far. So when I said "when the Nazis think you're being too hard, you're being damn harsh" I was drawing a comparison to the Nazis treatment of Jews, and how if they could things so ridiculously violent and horrific as what they had done, then them telling Japan to ease off is a sign that Japan was really, really going at it.
 
@Edamame said:

" "Lost Names" is a good book about a Korean family's experience under Japanese control of Korea."

I'll try to see if my local library has it. Cool.
 
@Edamame said:

"LOL Nope. Korea is closer to Japan than Manchuria is.  1910."

Alright. I don't actually know/remember the exact dates, but I've always been told that Manchuria was invaded first. I was mainly talking about the years directly preceding WWII. Korea was a good thirty before it.
 
@Edamame said:

"They surrendered after the second atomic bomb. But I ask why after the second bomb and not the first? Or why not a third? See what I mean?"

No, I don't.
 
@Edamame said:

"What? They did not have enough time to respond? Explain.  "


The bomb dropped in Hiroshima (think it was Little Boy) knocked out communications in the area. The Japanese had know way of knowing what had actually happened. It took time for them to confirm the destruction.
 
After they had discovered that a singular bomb caused that much devastation, the government spent two days trying to decide under what conditions they should try to go for when they surrendered. They took too long and the second bomb, Fat Man, was dropped three days after in Nagasaki.
 
Basically, they had pretty much already decided that they should surrender, they were just trying to choose how. Add in the communication and verification time, and they didn't surrender by the time that the USA wanted them too. They didn't have enough time.
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FLCL1

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#23  Edited By FLCL1

i also didnt like it however yes i think it was right
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Green Skin

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#24  Edited By Green Skin

Probably not necessary, but then again neither was Pearl Harbor

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Tyler Starke

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#25  Edited By Tyler Starke

nawww

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kadeem

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#26  Edited By kadeem

The bombing of Pearl harbor wasn't done out of the blue.  While it is true that the Japanese were expanding their empire through Asia, the U.S. was doing the same through the middle east, Africa, and Latin America.  The issue was both Japan and the U.S. had their eyes set on the Indian Peninsula and its oil.  To prevent Japan from getting it, the U.S. instigated tensions between Russian and Japan, which eventually lead to the Russo-Japanese war.  WWII is not a story of good guys vs Bad Guys, but just a fight amongst bad guys.

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#27  Edited By kadeem
@Edamame: The instigation of the Russo-Japanese war and the cutting off of the oil supply were both reasons Pearl Harbor haappened.
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#28  Edited By kadeem
@Edamame: Of course not.  The U.S. put out bad intelligence to instigate the conflict, and eventually Japanese intlligence figured out the intelligence was bad, but not until the war already started.  This combined with the oil supply issue led to Pearl Harbor.
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Hellos

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#29  Edited By Hellos
@Lunacyde said:
"Was it necessary for the U.S. to drop the A-bomb on Japan? Was it necessary to use two bombs? Was it necessary to use heavily civilian targets? I want to hear your opinion! "

Nope we might have managed without it, but in theory it did ultimately save many lives and pretty much curbstomped Hilter's plans before he could do the same to the US and the allies.
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kadeem

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#30  Edited By kadeem
@Edamame: What movie?
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rbysjti

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#31  Edited By rbysjti

i think not. 

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kadeem

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#32  Edited By kadeem
@Edamame: It was good, but I prefer the classic Tora,Tora,Tora!  What about you?
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rbysjti

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#33  Edited By rbysjti

i've actually heard that the phrase that was being sent to the pilot/s actually meant  to stop but at the same time it also meant to go ahead with the plan.

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dane

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#34  Edited By dane

I think they made an "us or them" kind of decision. In retrospect it doesn't look like the best option but in war it's often viewed as the only option.

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Bio Guyver

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#35  Edited By Bio Guyver

No.

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Lunacyde

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#36  Edited By Lunacyde  Moderator

 They surrendered after the second atomic bomb. But I ask why after the second bomb and not the first? Or why not a third? See what I mean? What? They did not have enough time to respond? Explain. 


 
The Japanese government was trying to go through the Soviet Union to surrender even before the first bomb was dropped. They didn't surrender after the first one for a number of reasons. First of all they had no idea what was going on. Unlike today their communications weren't that great at that time. Most of Japan including Government and Military officials had little idea of what had happened. Secondly we were planning on dropping the second bomb anyways. We literally gave Japan no chance to surrender between the 1st and 2nd bombs.
 
Yet again I ask why would it not have been effective to target a military compound or at least an abandoned site?
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rbysjti

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#37  Edited By rbysjti

it should have been dropped at Northwestern Connecticut. hahaha. just a joke Edamame.
 
But seriously, i believe one was enough.

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kadeem

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#38  Edited By kadeem
@Edamame: I can't stand Bay!  Someone needs to explain to him the differance between explosions and special effects and actual direction and in depth storytelling.  Bay directed that movie, no wonder I thought it was lacking. LOL
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rbysjti

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#39  Edited By rbysjti
@kadeem said:
" @Edamame: I can't stand Bay!  Someone needs to explain to him the differance between explosions and special effects and actual direction and in depth storytelling.  Bay directed that movie, no wonder I thought it was lacking. LOL "
i agree with kadeem.
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Lunacyde

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#40  Edited By Lunacyde  Moderator
@Edamame said:
" I still would really like to know if they would have done the same to Germany of Italy.  I sense some sort of racial preference in this decision to atomic bomb Japan.  "
According to Historical Documentaries it was planned to be used on Nazi Germany if it hadn't surrendered before the bomb was completed.
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Lunacyde

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#42  Edited By Lunacyde  Moderator
@Edamame said:
" @Lunacyde said:
" @Edamame said:
" I still would really like to know if they would have done the same to Germany of Italy.  I sense some sort of racial preference in this decision to atomic bomb Japan.  "
According to Historical Documentaries it was planned to be used on Nazi Germany if it hadn't surrendered before the bomb was completed. "
And why only Japanese internment and not Italian or German? Most of the White Population in America has Germanyancestry. So, there would be hell if they used it on Nazi Germany.  "
You could be right i know stories of first and second generation German Immigrants whose mothers told them to shoot over the German's soldiers heads. However I know the U.S. policy was that if necessary to end the war in Europe they would have done it. However maybe they would have dropped it on a military target instead in that situation, or an abandoned area.
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lagoon_boy

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#43  Edited By lagoon_boy
probably not. The simple reason is that to many innocent people died, even they killed most or all of their enemies, they had killed nuns priests children too,
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Lunacyde

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#44  Edited By Lunacyde  Moderator

Of course. Most Americans are directly descended from Europe, many of them German. Also you must take into effect the fact that German and Italian people look a lot more like us (whites/the majority of Americans) in fact many Americans are of German /Italian descent. Of course the way we think there is going to be a double standard. The Japanese (thanks to propaganda) were made out to be little more than animals with viscious and strange ways. We really had this seperation in our minds of us and them that we couldn't have to the same degree with European enemies.
 
I am not saying it is right, or correct, but it's true.

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Fatal

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#45  Edited By Fatal

It probably wasn't necessary to drop the bomb on Japan, which is probably why it was done anyway.

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Lunacyde

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#46  Edited By Lunacyde  Moderator
@Edamame:  I wouldn't go that far, but they sure did get a lot of positive out of a bad situation.
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Lunacyde

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#47  Edited By Lunacyde  Moderator
@Edamame: Yes....and we have flooded them with all kinds of American culture, it's a symbiotic relationship. We are still far richer than Japan, we still vastly out resource them, we still have a much stronger military, we still have a lower suicide rate, we still have better athletes, etc.
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Lunacyde

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#48  Edited By Lunacyde  Moderator
@Edamame:  I don't really know, just saying that America is still ahead of Japan in a lot of things.
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Lunacyde

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#49  Edited By Lunacyde  Moderator
@Edamame: We could go on all night comparing different things lol
 
I swear I didn't notice it before....that is kinda irritating me now...I hate misspelling things.
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#50  Edited By warlock360

I suppose the bomb felt more convincing then whatever verbal debate they could of put up with : )