United States: Democracy vs Republic?

So some folks and I were having a discussion about the state of the US (wasn't a very fruitful discussion), but one topic did come up that I found somewhat interesting. A simple premise;

Do you believe theoretically that the United States would (or could) ultimately be better off as a democracy, or is it better off remaining as a republic?

Note: Obviously the danger is there, but this is assuming said democracy it does not instantly, gradually or inevitably descend into anarchy or mob rule.

The United States of America is officially a Democratic Republic. We elect the leaders that make the rules.

???

Never a democracy. True democracy is mob rule.

It's none of those options tho

@jagernutt: Actually, the United States is a constitutional republic

@xzone:

It's an accurate term. It's called a description.

Oh boy.

It is what it was designed to be just as post #7 describes. It ain't perfect but it's the best system going. We just need to get lobbyists and special interests the hell out of government (among other things but we need to start with these).

@jagernutt: Weird.. I’m getting conflicting answers from my searches xd

@xzone:

That's because your overcomplicating this. Neither term is mutually exclusive. The United States can be both at the same time.

100%

@xzone:

How about this? On paper, the United States is a "Constitutional Republic". If you you wanted to describe in more detail how it actually operates then you would explain it as a "Democratic Republic" in functional operation. Democratic Republic is the"Verbiage".

@jagernutt: I wasn’t gonna argue this any further cause I’m really not sure now haha. No need to debate this with me :p

@xzone:

Fair enough.

Can't it be both?

A republic is a form of democracy as is, so the United States can be said to be both a Republic and a Democracy.

All republics are democracies, but not all democracies are republics.

In a democracy every citizen votes on major decisions. In a republic, which is what the United States are, the citizens vote on who their decision makers will be. That's how I understand it.

@lan_fan:

Hehe. It is both.lol

Kind of, but that is a greatly simplified version of it. A Democracy is any government where the people have a say in the manner the society is governed, usually through voting. This can be a direct democracy (which is what most people think of as "democracy") where everyone gets a vote on every issue, or a representative democracy where the citizens vote for representatives to speak on their behalf. Our Constitutional Republic is a sub-form of representative democracy. Therefore it is both republic and democracy.

A democratic republic is not technically a democracy. It's a form of government that adopts some elements from it, but it isn't one itself (i.e., electing an official may be democratic, but that does not make the government itself a democracy).

Fundamentally speaking, the use of representatives goes in contrast to the principles of a democracy, as does a constitution (among other things) as it either curtails or voids the authority of the majority in many matters of state and governing. Functionally speaking, it'd be more accurate to call the United States a constitutional republic as opposed to a democratic republic.

EDIT: At least, this was how I was taught. Basically, similar function =/= formed identity

@lunacyde: You've got me curious now, because this kinda contradicts my own understanding. History had a lot of examples of republics that were certainly not democratic as we would consider it, such as the Roman Republic (which was more like an aristocrat stratocracy) or many of the Greek city-states, like Athens (some of which could be stratocratic, others even meritocratic, at least in part). On the other hand, there's also examples in ancient Europe (such as regions of Scandinavia) of monarchial systems that had what we would consider democratic elements.

@reactor:

Democracy is a more loose and vaguely defined term than what most conceptualize. Truly, there is still a degree of contention on what exactly defines a democracy. That being said there are a few basic guidelines that exist in almost every definition.

1. Power vested in the citizenry, whether through direct voting on measures, or the election of representatives.

2. There is the premise of active participation of the people, as citizens, in politics and civic life.

3. Some degree of rights and responsibilities conferred to citizens.

4. Rule of law established through consent of the governed.

I'll give a few definitions of democracy from academic resources.

Democracy is a means for the people to choose their leaders and to hold their leaders accountable for their policies and their conduct in office.

The people decide who will represent them in parliament, and who will head the government at the national and local levels. They do so by choosing between competing parties in regular, free and fair elections.

Government is based on the consent of the governed.

In a democracy, the people are sovereign—they are the highest form of political authority.

Power flows from the people to the leaders of government, who hold power only temporarily.

-Lecture at Stanford University

Democracy is "government by the people; that form of government in which the sovereign power resides in the people as a whole, and is exercised either directly by them . . . or by officers elected by them."

-Oxford English Dictionary

“The essential idea of democracy is that the people have the right to determine who governs them. In most cases they elect the principal governing officials and hold them accountable for their actions. Democracies also impose legal limits on the government’s authority by guaranteeing certain rights and freedoms to their citizens.”

-Micheal J. Sodaro

"Government by the people, where liberty, equality and fraternity are secured to the greatest possible degree and in which human capacities are developed to the utmost, by means including free and full discussion of common problems and interests.

-Pennock 1979

"Democracy is a competitive political system in which competing leaders and organizations define the alternatives of public policy in such a way that the public can participate in the decision-making process."

-Schattschneider 1960

"The competitive electoral context, with several political parties organizing the alternatives that face the voters, is the identifying property of the contemporary democratic process . . . . [D]emocratic systems [are] . . . characterized by competitive elections in which most citizens are eligible to participate."

-Powell, 1982

True democracy is completely impractical. Having open polling on every single bill or ordinance that gets proposed is not possible. We would have to practically live at the polling place. A republic may be less democratic, but it's practical.

@mrmonster: Which is probably why almost every democracy has been a representative democracy ;)

@lunacyde: Exactly. Maybe true democracy could work for a small tribe of 100 or less, but anything bigger and you need to just settle for being a republic.

One human can be trusted to make decisions for themselves, two humans maybe so too, but when it comes to 240 million humans in which more than half of that population have a deluded perception of life, then i think to myself is democracy really the right thing for this generation? and the answer comes to me no, no it isn't.

the US is a Democratic Republic and its currently the best form of the system, between the Electoral College, Senate, and House all states have as close to an equal say, in how things are run, as we are gonna get.

a true Democracy would be quite bad especially for a country as large and diverse as the United States... people in Michigan are not gonna have the same views, goals, ect... as people from Kentucky or California. in all likelihood a true Democracy in the US would likely result in several civil wars

It's both.

As others have already said, its both.

I wish humans weren't such shitty lifeforms so we could have anarchy like every other being on this planet.

i think anarchy is a good idea i think it would be very productive for every body and open jobs and get the eco nomy going

The two are not mutually exclusive. The United States is a Constitutional Republic, also a Democratic Republic, because people vote for representatives who govern and legislate on their behalf. Also - and this is important - we are not a direct democracy because majority rule does not always prevail due to the electoral college and other areas of the government where a supermajority is required rather than the actual majority. But this makes the US constitutional

More specifically the US is a Federal Presidential Constitutional Republic. The individual states within the US enjoy a certain degree of sovereignty and have within them Constitutionally-empowered governments, which are free to exercise power (which is not expressly reserved for the federal government) and pass legislation. Those states also have their own constitution and supreme court which enforces that constitution. Being a federal system is very important to the discussion. For the record, local governments (mayors, etc.) are not expressly protected by the Constitution and may be dissolved.

Simply calling it a "republic" or a "democracy" oversimplifies the United States structure of governance. This system is complicated explicitly by design, and it's actually a pretty good system.

@lunacyde: Most people think of direct democracy when they hear the word "democracy"? I would've thought most people would instinctively recall the democratic systems largely in place around the world, namely representative democracies.

It's a debt-based corporatocracy run by the Military-Industrial Complex x Mass Media and Bankers x Middle Eastern Oil Lords.

@shootingnova: From my experience talking with people they believe "democracy" only means direct democracy. I cannot tell you how many conversations I have had over this topic. I hear "The United States isn't a real democracy" all the time. As if direct democracy is the only real democracy.

@lunacyde: It probably has something to do with the more visible elements of government where popular vote hold comparatively little to no power. Usually, the proverbial poster child in this regard are the electoral colleges that are in use in the United States, compared to other countries like say, France, where public vote (and its effects) are more direct in the election process and much more heavily influence who succeeds office.

@reactor: Absolutely true, but the electoral college only applies to President, who is the leader of the executive branch. The people directly elect the Senators and Representative who propose, write, and vote on their laws. Its a wondrous system of government our founding fathers created.

They should try democracy for a change and for better comparison which would work best for the country.