The myth of Christian persecution in America

Want to know which social group is the most persecuted or maligned in present day America?- it;s not Muslims, African and Native Americans, LGBT people or Jews(it's) if you believe some commentators- it's Christians.

To quote John McEnroe YOU CANNOT BE SERIOUS!!! Of all the 45 Presidents of the United States from the foundation of the Republic to 2017, most if not all have been at least nominally Christian( I have my doubts about Thomas Jefferson, Abraham Lincoln, Dwight Eisenhower , LBJ, Richard Nixon and Donald Trump) and several such as Franklin D. Roosevelt, Harry Truman, JFK, Jimmy Carter, Bill Clinton, George W.Bush and Barack Obama have been explicit about the role faith plays in their daily lives; no Hindu, Sikh or Jew, Muslim or avowed atheist or even agnostic has ever sat in the Oval Office. Ditto US Congress or Supreme Court( the latter of which only appointed its first Jewish member- Louis D. Brandeis in 1916- at the time of writing only three Justices are Jewish, Elena Kagan, Stephen Breyer and Ruth "Kiki" Bader Ginzburg) . Even defeated presidential candidates such as Hillary Clinton have expressly admitted their faith( Clinton says that she's always been a "praying person at heart"). I am ware that FDR, JFK , LBJ and Clinton may have had extramarital affairs before and during their Presidencies but if they sinned, they at least knew what a sin was! Let's see: REAL persecution as we saw in the late unlamented Soviet Union and its satrapies during not just the Cold War but from the very inception of Soviet rule under Lenin, included arbitrary arrests and executions of clergy, demolition of places of worship and refusals to allow new churches , mosques and synagogues to constructed, stringent restrictions on religious rights. WHERE and WHEN has anything like that happened in present day America???

More to the point, the nonsensical claim that Christians are being "persecuted" in America diverts attention from the bona fide claims of Christians in places like Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Sudan, China , Cuba, Vietnam and North Korea who REALLY are suffering persecution!

Anybody think as I do?

Oh yeah, I think everyone who knows what they're talking about thinks as you do.

Bu-bu-but God's Not Dead said... >.>

I always believed that USA is basically a christian country lol.

To the extent that persecution can exist in the United States, Christians were in ever increasing fashion, up until Trump took office; but, persecution equals encroachment; and, than, the end results of encroachment, if not stopped could ultimately lead to persecution. Christianity, in Western Societies, as a whole, is the faith that is mostly being attacked, when people are talking about religious rights or rights to have no religion. In the United States, the media has been trying to marginalize Christianity as some sort of ultra-right, Republican philosophy, and, that's kind of where its being maligned to in all Western countries; look outside of Western countries, and you'll observe that Christianity is generally the most persecuted faith.

But, opposing God always backfires and now Republican is the most widely elected political party in the United States, albeit a bit to my chagrin, as a Christian who does not fit into that media defined bubble (e.g. generally, Christians of color in the United States, where we're usually and mostly Democratic, because that's the party that's for civil rights type issues, which is actually more in line with what Christianity stands for).

That Christianity is the most persecuted religion around the world is not a myth and needs much closer attention paid to it (e.g. earlier this week, we had wide media coverage over an incident involving an attack on a secular event in the UK, although Christian facilities are attacked in like manner on an almost daily basis nearly everywhere and we have things like this threat creating an implication that Christianity is like being royalty everywhere in the world that's rarely ever bothered by anyone, yet religious freedom needs to happen at the expense of the Christian traditions in a nation; I'm definitely not trying to minimize the Manchester attack, but, these events are very common on Christians and Christian events and facilities nearly daily, yet doesn't even resonate in mainstream media; you'd have to go to alternate media to hear about them); this needs to be paid attention to in Western countries, where persecution is in its more infant form, which is encroachment and marginalization, which is clearly taking place, as can be very clearly observed and recognized, except it's kind of backfiring in the United States, even though media has this alternate reality in place that atheism is the established thing and religion (basically, Christianity is the intended target, when someone says religion, as, if not, they tend to name one of the other religions by its name in specific, when Christianity isn't the target) is arcane is the way to live (e.g. although not quite a reality, yet, the youth in American is mostly believing it and has to have that type of indoctrination hammered out of them; but, clearly, the EU is like a glimpse into the American future, or, was, when Trump took office, as divine intervention isn't going down without a fight).

Islam and Christianity have a lot of the same values when it comes to stuff like gay marriage but it's only Christians are viewed as homophobic. All religions are dumb AF but it seems to me that Christianity gets a bad name more.

I myself am a Christian and I don't believe in Christian persecution in America. In fact, I don't believe there is ANY persecution in modern day America.

@anakon4: it is lol

Chill out mate

@righteous300: That smells with something something illogical.

@paracelsus:

Of all the 45 Presidents of the United States from the foundation of the Republic to 2017, most if not all have been at least nominally Christian

I stopped reading after this.

This is really relevant to the point you are making. You are trying to equate history with what is happening today. Also using the "one Christian is in power" all Christians must have it good.

WHERE and WHEN has anything like that happened in present day America???

We are getting into liberal talking points here.

This is the persecution point system, the idea that someone had it worse or has it worse so you can't defend yourself.

More to the point, the nonsensical claim that Christians are being "persecuted" in America diverts attention from the bona fide claims of Christians in places like Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Sudan, China , Cuba, Vietnam and North Korea who REALLY are suffering persecution!

This gets brought up, you have just confused what the MSM covers with what people care about. A Priest was F**king beheaded in France, coverage for that was light at best and that was in the Western world.

Here's my view on the matter. The western world and Christians became more tolerant, now a lot of people would like to cite anecdotal examples, go on about Westboro Baptist Church (less than 400 members yet it has had a ridiculous amount of media coverage) or the dark ages.

You can even dispute this, it's measurable. People target Christians because they are less likely to retaliate. Of course my own personal solution is to put people on the spot IRL, doesn't make me very tolerant but that's what you get when you punish tolerance and that's what it's really all about.

The violence, threats and livelihoods lost to leftist politics, the fear of offending Muslims and the rise in the alt-right. All because we punish tolerance, reward extremism.

The very notion that Christians are being persecuted in the U.S. is absurd, and only promoted by certain people and those in conservative media in order to cause a victim mentality. Psychological studies have shown that it's easier to influence people if you appeal to their fear. This is especially true for conservatives. Peer-reviewed scientific studies have shown that conservatives tend to be driven more by fear and anxiety than liberals or moderates, and they tend to have stronger emotional responses to negativity and perceived threats. This is why conservative organizations like Fox News tend to focus on fear-mongering, demonizing of minorities, and other such tactics.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/mind-in-the-machine/201612/fear-and-anxiety-drive-conservatives-political-attitudes

I'm Christian and I'd say that Catholics get the worst but other, non extreme, Christians are not persecuted in America. What you're saying sounds more like you're trying to create a "White man's burden" where Christians are put in a terrible place.

A lot of Christians(not a lot % wise but still a lot of people) have a need to think of themselves as persecuted due to wanting to be like Jesus and thinking that its the end times and so the rest of the world is starting to gang up on all the 'true Christians'. Its a victimized mindset because they want to think of themselves as being part of the chosen ones who are being persecuted for their righteousness because they think its necessary in order for Jesus to return. Same mindset exists in a lot of sects/cults/religions though.

What is this weird trend of everyone wanted me be the "Victim".

People believing that they are in the right and everyone else in in the wrong over stupid things, like Skin color, Religion, gender ect.

People are just people, trying to go about their lives as best as they can figure.

Your not any more Right or "just" then the next asshole, because Morality is a subjective thing to begin with.

before worrying about position of others in the social ladder worry about bettering your own damn self.

Yes a priest(Father Jacques Hamel) WAS murdered by Islamists in France, but clearly he was NOT persecuted by the French State. Since the demise of Communist rule in Eastern Europe and the USSR, Christianity has ceased to be persecuted by government

(as it is in Cuba, China, North Korea and Vietnam)!

@giliad_: LUL

"Persecution" isn't really the right word. Whereas Christians are almost certainly the most hated group in America, there's way to many of us & if anyone really tried to persecute Christians in America all hell would break lose.

So Christians are more hated than Neo-Nazis and child molesters?

@willpayton said:

For real... that's the stupidest thing I've read on CV in ages...

LOL! Religious Group. Should've been more specific.

Muslims...

Maybe but it seems most would rather tip toe around that one & just bash on Christianity rather than piss off those touchy Muslims.

I don't think so most people in the US are Christian and the most hated religon by far is Islam I mean there's another bombing everyother day around the world they blow up 14 year old girls for fun the religon is absurd and just dumb as is christianity being a not so devout myself there's many branches up the religon that are ridiculous but at least they don't fell compelled to blow up young girls

Christians have always been so, But they also do most of the persecution themselves. Other then Islam of course. Pagan's were persecuted forever by Christians, now though they are the largest fastest rising religion in America and it's growing over seas too. I think after the Jewish, Christians, and Islamic folks are done fighe each other they will look around and see that paganism rules while they were busy. Some religion will always be persecution fodder

Around 71% of Americans are Christians. Saying that Christians are the most hated religious group is nonsense, unless you're claiming that Christians hate other Christians... or unless all you do is watch Fox News.

Fact is that almost every religious group, and the non-religious, are more hated or distrusted in the U.S. than Christians.

http://www.pewforum.org/2014/07/16/how-americans-feel-about-religious-groups/

Basically the less you believe in Christianity (or religion in general) in the U.S. the least you are trusted. Religious people, and Christians in particular, dont trust anyone who doesnt believe what they do.

Meh.....nah! I'm over it. I should've just stayed out of it.

I'm here to make battle threads & penis jokes & I'm all out of penis jokes.

If the country's largest religious or political group is being persecuted by smaller minorities then I don't know what to say

Look at this thread for instance. The dislike for the idea that Christians could be hated on is almost palpable.

Atheists will almost exclusively complain about Christians because for one that's all they know what to complain about and they know they would be socially ostracized for going after Muslims or Jews.

Persecution is a strong word so I don't like to use it to describe what's going on but you would be a bald faced liar to not notice that it's ok to openly go after some groups more than others. Media is very liberal and it does operate under a victim complex hierarchy.

Around 71% of Americans are Christians. Saying that Christians are the most hated religious group is nonsense, unless you're claiming that Christians hate other Christians... or unless all you do is watch Fox News.

http://www.pewforum.org/2014/07/16/how-americans-feel-about-religious-groups/

Here's Will trying to use data without really thinking it through. The fact that he made this argument shows he doesn't understand how things work. Attacks are not about numbers. If 1000 people didn't like Amish traditions vs say 100 that actively seek to ruin the image, actively insult and make a mockery of the Amish in the media. The latter is far worse.

Here is what happened.

In society under western/Christian teachings you are taught to be tolerant. People who hate Christians will of course hate hearing the undeniable fact that western/Christian countries became the most tolerant in the world, you can cite all the hate crimes you want but it doesn't change the fact of what has happened in the last half century vs how the rest of the world is to this day.

Now people don't mock or Criticize Islam or Judaism the same way they do Christianity in the media. It wouldn't be tolerated.

In my view the current climate in many instance punishes you for being tolerant and rewards intolerance because a lot of people are ignorant to these behavior patterns and don't see what they are doing.

If Christians started going after people the way black-lives matter, feminists, antifa, Jewish lobbies, gay rights etc go after their opponents you would be a lot less likely to mock or criticize them.

Persecution is WAY to strong of a word. They're rights are not being taken away. They're not being thrown in jail over petty crimes. They're not being denied loans or education.

Who is doing this persecution? Atheist, Muslims, Jews? Nope. It's other Christians. It's liberal Christians vs conservative Christians.

Still, the word "persecution" is to strong. It's like calling a puddle of water an ocean.

Anyway Jesus said that his disciples would be persecuted. So if you are being persecuted. Then you may be doing something right. But you're not being persecuted so you may not be as Christian as you thought.

Christians aren't being persecuted, lol that's just absurd. (At least not in America) Hell, Christmas is a federal holiday. So, no one is going around towns and pulling christians out of churches and killing them.

BUT

It is fair to say that the political LEFT tends to be extremely dismissive and condescending to their conservative opponents, and their faith can be a component of that or a target.

Guy on the right: I'm tired of all these Islams blowin' [stuff] up! You don't see christians doing that, why do we let them into the country?

Woman on the left: You can't say that, christians are responsible for millions of deaths in the world, like the crusades, muslims arethe ones being oppressed by that kind of thinking.

No one here is really 100% in the right, but that doesn't stop people from just digging their heels into the dirt and doubling down on their position until dialogue completely breaks down.

@asgardianbrony

Good goys

Aren't Christians a majority in America? They can't be the most persecuted in America as far as I'm concerned. Besides there are bigger issues to deal with.

Issues citing this or I can't believe these feats are true.

Yeah, I know, I'm always coming in with that darn data to screw everything up.

Here's some more data for you, this time from the FBI's hate crime statistics for 2015:

Religious bias (Based on Table 1.)

Of the 1,402 victims of anti-religious hate crimes:

• 52.1 percent were victims of crimes motivated by their offenders’ anti-Jewish bias.

• 21.9 percent were victims of anti-Islamic (Muslim) bias.

• 4.3 percent were victims of anti-Catholic bias.

• 4.1 percent were victims of bias against groups of individuals of varying religions (anti-multiple religions, group).

• 3.6 percent were victims of anti-Eastern Orthodox (Russian, Greek, Other) bias.

• 3.4 percent were victims of anti-Protestant bias.

• 1.3 percent were victims of anti-Other Christian bias.

• 0.6 percent were victims of anti-Mormon bias.

• 0.4 percent were victims of anti-Hindu bias.

• 0.4 percent were victims of anti-Sikh bias.

• 0.1 percent were victims of anti-Jehovah’s Witness bias.

• 0.1 percent were victims of anti-Buddhist bias.

• 0.1 percent were victims of anti-Atheist/Agnostic bias.

• 7.6 percent were victims of bias against other religions (anti-other religion).

Tell me again how Christians are being persecuted in the U.S.

Not persecution per se, but more like suppression of their influence in American society and politics which are getting more and more liberals and atheistic.

Anyway i kinda see Christians as easy targets for ridicule and insults, as unlike other religion like Jewish or Muslims no body will call you bigot or NAZI or racist or xenophobe or " -Phobic" when you malign Christianism.

And those terminologies are pretty hot in the Liberals list of something to hate.

@willpayton: You use all the data, facts, and logic you want, but if Christians aren't being persecuted then why did Starbucks take snowflakes off their holiday cups?! Checkmate.

"Christians have always been so, But they also do most of the persecution themselves. Other then Islam of course. Pagan's were persecuted forever by Christians, now though they are the largest fastest rising religion in America and it's growing over seas too."

What are your facts and evidence that Christians are (actively) persecuting just like Islam? This statement is just nonsense, as it stands at the moment. In relation to Pagans, you're just wrong and you have to put things in historical context. In context, Pagans, in at least the form of the Roman Empire persecuted Christians, quite clearly, and have at least all of that blood on their hands; Christians have done nothing even remotely similar to that to Pagans; what came later can just be justified as acts of retribution by Christians for past crimes committed against them by Pagans.

"I think after the Jewish, Christians, and Islamic folks are done fighe each other they will look around and see that paganism rules while they were busy. Some religion will always be persecution fodder"

And this is more absurdity; where are you getting it that Christians (and Jews) are activity engaged in fighting against Muslims? Christians are being victimized by basically every group and currently doing nothing in their defense. These are facts that are just as plan as daylight.

@willpayton: Yeah, I know, I'm always coming in with that darn data to screw everything up.

Will why use data when you don't understand it's relevance or how the world works. You just throw out data because you can't have a coherent conversation to the point where I sometimes think your a bot who just regurgitates information from one side of the political spectrum.

When a Muslim ran a truck into a Christmas market, find me a left leaning publication that called it a hate crime.

You have people that will actively seek out hate crimes and tell people to report crimes against specific groups.

Here's a really simple question to ask. Which is more likely to classified as a hate crime on facebook or twitter, criticism of Jews or Christians? Many people prescribe to the doctrine of power or majority means you can't be discriminated against.

This should be really simple to find out, make a fake profile, openly claim hatred for Islam, Christianity and Judaism and what they have done. Now for your typical person and that was your average account, with your family, school or work address, which do you think would be the least riskiest to your livelihood. The answer of course is being critical of Christians.

These are reasons why your cherry picked data is rubbish Will. Your never able to apply it to real life, you have little in the way of empirical evidence.

Using insults doesn't disprove any of the data he provided.

As I asked in my OP- where were the usual indications of covert or implicit persecution of Christianity and its adherents in America- churches arbitrarily closed,or refused permission to build new ones, priests and religious thrown in jail(or worst case scenario- martyred- that it is to say dying for the sake of the faith)???? The cold fact of the matter is that the average American Christian is more likely to die of old age as opposed to martyrdom- and they KNOW it! So to quote Walter Mondale in the 1984 US Presidential election-"where's the beef?"!

Terry

Criticism =/= Persecution

Persecution implies that it's literally dangerous to be a Christian within your society. Being mocked or ridiculed isn't the same as a spike in hate crimes in greater proportion to other religous/non-theist communites or the government constantly passing laws that directly harm Christian's way of life. Hypothetical examples of persecution against Christians in the U.S. would be like if it became illegal to own a bible, or if mass Christians were to be deported if they continued to practice their faith, or manditory minimum sentences for anyone displaying crosses in public, etc.

In a democratic nation majority groups can easily be the target of criticism, but not the target of persecution.

@maestro_: Using insults doesn't disprove any of the data he provided.

Your right that was a bit much but my points do.

Actually, there are a couple of cases in the Western parts of the United States, the most liberal parts, where ordinances were apparently put in place and used against a couple of pastors who were having church in their homes; these pastors were fined and where about to be jailed, and, effectively and apparently prevented from having church in their own homes; this was just last year; also, recent cases where bakers were fined for refusing service to potential customers engaged in practices against their religion, and effectively driven out of business; there were court decisions that forced churches to engage in practices that they disagreed with on religious grounds; and, it took Supreme Court intervention that happened to fall on their side to block legislation from the Affordable Care Act to force church organizations to disregard their religious teachings and be forced to perform medical procedures or engage in practices that they disagreed with, where long standing standards were already in place and working adequately, when legislation was crafted to target these practices right out of the blue, even though they had been functioning fine and without incident for decades; things were taking place in the military against Christianity by one high level official, until Trump was elected (e.g. see the Hal Lindsey show, say, around March 2016); however, these were acts that I was referring to as encroachment; if you try, you could find plenty that meet what you're describing.

Dunno if this counts, but Hutterites ( an offshoot of regular Christianity ) were prosecuted during the first world war for not letting their men join the army because it was against their belief of non-violence. other than that, the only prosecution of Christians in America today, is the bullshit you see on social media.

@dshipp17:

My evidence is witnessing it over the years with my own eyes. The level of persecution is much different however. Islam spreads hate, and actively kill or attack, while Christians condem, and damn the opposing religion. I myself trained to become a preacher and my uncle is a deacon. I chose against it because of hypocrisy. This doesn't condem Christians in my eyes as a whole, but there are some over zealous would be Christians go further then others and preach against other religions this is common knowledge. Also Christian's burned witches that weren't witches the crusades, and even stole other religions holidays and remade them into there own. Easter was stolen from Babylon. A holiday for fertility. As for pagans in Rome of course they did that's what happens when religions clash. Now days howee, pagans accept all religious beliefs preach understanding, even have colleges. Teachers and classes.