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#2101 Posted by Buckwheat (2031 posts) - - Show Bio

@buckwheat said:
@thekillerklok said:

@buckwheat: Where you not? if not why post that?

seem to be picking a position there...

I posted it to show you that the fact that there is a review supporting a specific side of an argument, does not translate into that specific debate been ended.

It is arrogant on your side to pretend to have the absolute truth on a debate that is still openended.

On my side...

So you are on the other side yes?

Its disingenuous to pretend otherwise and refuse to debate my points.

Let me refrase:

It is arrogant of you to pretend to have the absolute truth on a debate that is still open ended.

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#2102 Posted by Thekillerklok (9549 posts) - - Show Bio

@buckwheat: I don't remember positing that my truth was absolute though...

I showed off a Harvard study that indicates that the gender pay gap isn't based on sexism but instead personal choice.

evidence that the theory that their is a gender pay gab because sexism is hollow. or in other words a debunk.

Showing evidence to support an argument is not the same as going the gnostic route and declaring your truth.

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#2103 Edited by Buckwheat (2031 posts) - - Show Bio

@thekillerklok said:

I don't remember positing that my truth was absolute though...

I showed off a Harvard study that indicates that the gender pay gap isn't based on sexism but instead personal choice

Showing evidence to support an argument is not the same as going the gnostic route and declaring your truth.

So in other words you are admiting that the link you posted is not an absolute debunk but rather evidence that supports your argument.

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#2104 Edited by Thekillerklok (9549 posts) - - Show Bio

@buckwheat: But it is some mighty stronk evidence from a source that seems far more reputable then what you posted...

your article linked here as their reference.

posted on the side of that article...

No Caption Provided

And you think I'm making bold claims...

Avatar image for buckwheat
#2105 Posted by Buckwheat (2031 posts) - - Show Bio

@buckwheat: But it is some mighty stronk evidence from a source that seems far more reputable then what you posted...

your article linked here as their reference.

posted on the side of that article...

And you think I'm making bold claims...

Oh but I didn't make any claims, bold or otherwise, concerning the wage gap. It is you who presume of presenting a link debunking it completely.

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#2106 Posted by Thekillerklok (9549 posts) - - Show Bio

@thekillerklok said:

@buckwheat: But it is some mighty stronk evidence from a source that seems far more reputable then what you posted...

your article linked here as their reference.

posted on the side of that article...

And you think I'm making bold claims...

Oh but I didn't make any claims, bold or otherwise, concerning the wage gap. It is you who presume of presenting a link debunking it completely.

I am someone who uses informal speech and colloquialisms man...

It seems to me you're using semantics instead actually confronting my argument.

Avatar image for buckwheat
#2107 Edited by Buckwheat (2031 posts) - - Show Bio

@thekillerklok said:
@buckwheat said:
@thekillerklok said:

@buckwheat: But it is some mighty stronk evidence from a source that seems far more reputable then what you posted...

your article linked here as their reference.

posted on the side of that article...

And you think I'm making bold claims...

Oh but I didn't make any claims, bold or otherwise, concerning the wage gap. It is you who presume of presenting a link debunking it completely.

I am someone who uses informal speech and colloquialisms man...

It seems to me you're using semantics instead actually confronting my argument.

Well I’m not interested in debating the wage gap because I feel there is truth in both sides of the argument. I have nothing to say against the Harvard Study —which seems not only legit, but also plausible— but I also understand it was focalized on a very narrow area and it (the study) been right doesn’t automatically invalidate some other aspects of the debate. It can be possible that women make personal choices that affect their income, and at the same time, for it to be less socially acceptable for a woman to ask for a raise than for a man, as Women are more likely to see a blowback to being assertive and for demanding more money for their work,". I don’t know if this is true and I am not defending that argument, but is inevitable to notice that the Harvard Study does not contemplate the circumstances of raises and their effect on both gender’s incomes, since in the work field they centered their analysis raises where not an option.

My post was more interested in denouncing your stand against feminism, for I feel it is too strict. I feel that if there is one thing that will help both men and women, regardless if they are feminist, sexist, racist or fatist, it is to have an open-minded pro dialogue attitude.

Regardless of if one believes in the feminist movement or not, we cannot ignore that nearly half of all murdered women are killed by romantic partners. About a third of the time, the couple had argued right before the homicide took place, and about 12 percent of the deaths were associated with jealousy. The majority of the victims were under the age of 40, and 15 percent were pregnant.

So leaving tags like patriarchy or feminism aside, we must acknowledge that there is a cultural aspect that could be improved through education, since a fundamental aspect of domestic violence is related to behavioral habits acquired during a person’s raisings, so yes, there is still work to be done. The intimate and delicate idiosyncrasy between men and women can still go a long way in society.

And yes, movements like the #MeToo aside from fighting for women’s rights, are in some aspects also widening the gap between men and women, because if men feel threatened they take a deffensive stand as a reaction to the supposed attack, and been defesive of one another is not the best way to achive mutual understanding.

Just what you seem to be doing: you attack feminism as a way of deffense. But attacking feminazis is not the solution, it is only part of the problem.

I am not going to presume to know where the solution resides, but I understand that dialogue, empathy, solidarity and generosity are some of the necessary tools that will get us closer to that utopianideal that, in the end, we all pursue.

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#2108 Posted by vance_astro (90090 posts) - - Show Bio

SAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAREEEEEEENNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN!

Moderator
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#2109 Posted by mimisalome (5240 posts) - - Show Bio
@thekillerklok said:
@buckwheat said:
@thekillerklok said:

@buckwheat: But it is some mighty stronk evidence from a source that seems far more reputable then what you posted...

your article linked here as their reference.

posted on the side of that article...

And you think I'm making bold claims...

Oh but I didn't make any claims, bold or otherwise, concerning the wage gap. It is you who presume of presenting a link debunking it completely.

I am someone who uses informal speech and colloquialisms man...

It seems to me you're using semantics instead actually confronting my argument.

Well I’m not interested in debating the wage gap because I feel there is truth in both sides of the argument. I have nothing to say against the Harvard Study —which seems not only legit, but also plausible— but I also understand it was focalized on a very narrow area and it (the study) been right doesn’t automatically invalidate some other aspects of the debate. It can be possible that women make personal choices that affect their income, and at the same time, for it to be less socially acceptable for a woman to ask for a raise than for a man, as Women are more likely to see a blowback to being assertive and for demanding more money for their work,". I don’t know if this is true and I am not defending that argument, but is inevitable to notice that the Harvard Study does not contemplate the circumstances of raises and their effect on both gender’s incomes, since in the work field they centered their analysis raises where not an option.

My post was more interested in denouncing your stand against feminism, for I feel it is too strict. I feel that if there is one thing that will help both men and women, regardless if they are feminist, sexist, racist or fatist, it is to have an open-minded pro dialogue attitude.

Regardless of if one believes in the feminist movement or not, we cannot ignore that nearly half of all murdered women are killed by romantic partners. About a third of the time, the couple had argued right before the homicide took place, and about 12 percent of the deaths were associated with jealousy. The majority of the victims were under the age of 40, and 15 percent were pregnant.

So leaving tags like patriarchy or feminism aside, we must acknowledge that there is a cultural aspect that could be improved through education, since a fundamental aspect of domestic violence is related to behavioral habits acquired during a person’s raisings, so yes, there is still work to be done. The intimate and delicate idiosyncrasy between men and women can still go a long way in society.

And yes, movements like the #MeToo aside from fighting for women’s rights, are in some aspects also widening the gap between men and women, because if men feel threatened they take a deffensive stand as a reaction to the supposed attack, and been defesive of one another is not the best way to achive mutual understanding.

Just what you seem to be doing: you attack feminism as a way of deffense. But attacking feminazis is not the solution, it is only part of the problem.

I am not going to presume to know where the solution resides, but I understand that dialogue, empathy, solidarity and generosity are some of the necessary tools that will get us closer to that utopianideal that, in the end, we all pursue.

I don't think those "murder" issues had anything to do with genders.

At least that's the conclusion we could have if we try to stick with the narrative about not qualifying a person based on their genders.

Security and protection for oneself is a personal responsibility, it doesn't matter whether you are male or female.

If you don't want to be abused or get raped then take the responsibility of protecting yourself and not leaving yourself in a vulnerable and compromised situations.

If you don't want to be killed or murdered by some jealous partner, then act smart and learn how to read dangerous situations, make contingencies for such threats, and secure yourself from being a victim of violence.

If you want to be paid equally for a job then perform equally on your job (that includes time commitment)

Blaming the so-called culture of "gender inequality" for the abuses, rapes, murders, or "unequal wage" would not stop those problems if people don't want take personal responsibilities for themselves.

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#2110 Posted by Thekillerklok (9549 posts) - - Show Bio

@thekillerklok said:
@buckwheat said:
@thekillerklok said:

@buckwheat: But it is some mighty stronk evidence from a source that seems far more reputable then what you posted...

your article linked here as their reference.

posted on the side of that article...

And you think I'm making bold claims...

Oh but I didn't make any claims, bold or otherwise, concerning the wage gap. It is you who presume of presenting a link debunking it completely.

I am someone who uses informal speech and colloquialisms man...

It seems to me you're using semantics instead actually confronting my argument.

Well I’m not interested in debating the wage gap because I feel there is truth in both sides of the argument. I have nothing to say against the Harvard Study —which seems not only legit, but also plausible— but I also understand it was focalized on a very narrow area and it (the study) been right doesn’t automatically invalidate some other aspects of the debate. It can be possible that women make personal choices that affect their income, and at the same time, for it to be less socially acceptable for a woman to ask for a raise than for a man, as Women are more likely to see a blowback to being assertive and for demanding more money for their work,". I don’t know if this is true and I am not defending that argument, but is inevitable to notice that the Harvard Study does not contemplate the circumstances of raises and their effect on both gender’s incomes, since in the work field they centered their analysis raises where not an option.

My post was more interested in denouncing your stand against feminism, for I feel it is too strict. I feel that if there is one thing that will help both men and women, regardless if they are feminist, sexist, racist or fatist, it is to have an open-minded pro dialogue attitude.

Regardless of if one believes in the feminist movement or not, we cannot ignore that nearly half of all murdered women are killed by romantic partners. About a third of the time, the couple had argued right before the homicide took place, and about 12 percent of the deaths were associated with jealousy. The majority of the victims were under the age of 40, and 15 percent were pregnant.

So leaving tags like patriarchy or feminism aside, we must acknowledge that there is a cultural aspect that could be improved through education, since a fundamental aspect of domestic violence is related to behavioral habits acquired during a person’s raisings, so yes, there is still work to be done. The intimate and delicate idiosyncrasy between men and women can still go a long way in society.

And yes, movements like the #MeToo aside from fighting for women’s rights, are in some aspects also widening the gap between men and women, because if men feel threatened they take a deffensive stand as a reaction to the supposed attack, and been defesive of one another is not the best way to achive mutual understanding.

Just what you seem to be doing: you attack feminism as a way of deffense. But attacking feminazis is not the solution, it is only part of the problem.

I am not going to presume to know where the solution resides, but I understand that dialogue, empathy, solidarity and generosity are some of the necessary tools that will get us closer to that utopianideal that, in the end, we all pursue.

My post was more interested in denouncing your stand against feminism, for I feel it is too strict. I feel that if there is one thing that will help both men and women, regardless if they are feminist, sexist, racist or fatist, it is to have an open-minded pro dialogue attitude.

Regardless of if one believes in the feminist movement or not, we cannot ignore that nearly half of all murdered women are killed by romantic partners. About a third of the time, the couple had argued right before the homicide took place, and about 12 percent of the deaths were associated with jealousy. The majority of the victims were under the age of 40, and 15 percent were pregnant.

So leaving tags like patriarchy or feminism aside, we must acknowledge that there is a cultural aspect that could be improved through education, since a fundamental aspect of domestic violence is related to behavioral habits acquired during a person’s raisings, so yes, there is still work to be done. The intimate and delicate idiosyncrasy between men and women can still go a long way in society.

What... wut? how are Crimes of passion a cultural thing that will be solved by feminism?

And why would that be a focus?

People get emotional and unhappy during messy breakups, and unhappy people do unhappy things... Gender equality aint going to solve that problem as it is inherent to human nature...

Homicide statistics by gender. According to the data given by the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime, worldwide, 78.7% of homicide victims are male, and in 193 of the 202 listed countries or regions, males were more likely to be killed than females.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homicide_statistics_by_gender

This right here is why I rightfully despise about your ideology... it's a delusional dangerous idealogy that is more concerned with woke points then actually looking at reality.

The narrative is crafted so that women are the victim and evil men are the perpetrators so that someone can swoop down with there social justice and rescue the poor damsel in distress...

And yes, movements like the #MeToo aside from fighting for women’s rights, are in some aspects also widening the gap between men and women, because if men feel threatened they take a deffensive stand as a reaction to the supposed attack, and been defesive of one another is not the best way to achive mutual understanding.

When an large group of people are advocating for the removal of a fundamental right such as Due Process because meh feminism... Men should feel threatened because they are being threatened.

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#2111 Edited by solar_nerd (1509 posts) - - Show Bio

Yay! A thread for a movement that hates men! Not sexist at all!

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#2112 Edited by Buckwheat (2031 posts) - - Show Bio

@mimisalome said:
@buckwheat said:
@thekillerklok said:
@buckwheat said:
@thekillerklok said:

@buckwheat: But it is some mighty stronk evidence from a source that seems far more reputable then what you posted...

your article linked here as their reference.

posted on the side of that article...

And you think I'm making bold claims...

Oh but I didn't make any claims, bold or otherwise, concerning the wage gap. It is you who presume of presenting a link debunking it completely.

I am someone who uses informal speech and colloquialisms man...

It seems to me you're using semantics instead actually confronting my argument.

Well I’m not interested in debating the wage gap because I feel there is truth in both sides of the argument. I have nothing to say against the Harvard Study —which seems not only legit, but also plausible— but I also understand it was focalized on a very narrow area and it (the study) been right doesn’t automatically invalidate some other aspects of the debate. It can be possible that women make personal choices that affect their income, and at the same time, for it to be less socially acceptable for a woman to ask for a raise than for a man, as Women are more likely to see a blowback to being assertive and for demanding more money for their work,". I don’t know if this is true and I am not defending that argument, but is inevitable to notice that the Harvard Study does not contemplate the circumstances of raises and their effect on both gender’s incomes, since in the work field they centered their analysis raises where not an option.

My post was more interested in denouncing your stand against feminism, for I feel it is too strict. I feel that if there is one thing that will help both men and women, regardless if they are feminist, sexist, racist or fatist, it is to have an open-minded pro dialogue attitude.

Regardless of if one believes in the feminist movement or not, we cannot ignore that nearly half of all murdered women are killed by romantic partners. About a third of the time, the couple had argued right before the homicide took place, and about 12 percent of the deaths were associated with jealousy. The majority of the victims were under the age of 40, and 15 percent were pregnant.

So leaving tags like patriarchy or feminism aside, we must acknowledge that there is a cultural aspect that could be improved through education, since a fundamental aspect of domestic violence is related to behavioral habits acquired during a person’s raisings, so yes, there is still work to be done. The intimate and delicate idiosyncrasy between men and women can still go a long way in society.

And yes, movements like the #MeToo aside from fighting for women’s rights, are in some aspects also widening the gap between men and women, because if men feel threatened they take a deffensive stand as a reaction to the supposed attack, and been defesive of one another is not the best way to achive mutual understanding.

Just what you seem to be doing: you attack feminism as a way of deffense. But attacking feminazis is not the solution, it is only part of the problem.

I am not going to presume to know where the solution resides, but I understand that dialogue, empathy, solidarity and generosity are some of the necessary tools that will get us closer to that utopianideal that, in the end, we all pursue.

I don't think those "murder" issues had anything to do with genders.

Why do you put the word murder between quotation marks? Do you not think that women killed by their partners, where really murdered?

I’m sorry, I’m heaving trouble fully understanding what you are saying, can you please reaffirm the statements you posted?

I don't think those "murder" issues had anything to do with genders.

A.) In your opinion, gender violence has nothing to do with genders.

If you don't want to be abused or get raped then take the responsibility of protecting yourself and not leaving yourself in a vulnerable and compromised situations.

B.) In your opinion a rape victim is blamable of been raped, for she didn’t properly protect herself.

If you don't want to be killed or murdered by some jealous partner, then act smart and learn how to read dangerous situations, make contingencies for such threats, and secure yourself from being a victim of violence.

C.) In your opinion if a woman is murdered, she is to blame for not “acting smart” and not heaving a “contingency plan”. So it is the victim’s fault she was murdered.

Are you even aware of what you are saying?

Either way... I could try to counter your “arguments” but your own words portray you well enough.

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#2113 Edited by mimisalome (5240 posts) - - Show Bio

@buckwheat said:
@mimisalome said:
@buckwheat said:
@thekillerklok said:
@buckwheat said:
@thekillerklok said:

@buckwheat: But it is some mighty stronk evidence from a source that seems far more reputable then what you posted...

your article linked here as their reference.

posted on the side of that article...

And you think I'm making bold claims...

Oh but I didn't make any claims, bold or otherwise, concerning the wage gap. It is you who presume of presenting a link debunking it completely.

I am someone who uses informal speech and colloquialisms man...

It seems to me you're using semantics instead actually confronting my argument.

Well I’m not interested in debating the wage gap because I feel there is truth in both sides of the argument. I have nothing to say against the Harvard Study —which seems not only legit, but also plausible— but I also understand it was focalized on a very narrow area and it (the study) been right doesn’t automatically invalidate some other aspects of the debate. It can be possible that women make personal choices that affect their income, and at the same time, for it to be less socially acceptable for a woman to ask for a raise than for a man, as Women are more likely to see a blowback to being assertive and for demanding more money for their work,". I don’t know if this is true and I am not defending that argument, but is inevitable to notice that the Harvard Study does not contemplate the circumstances of raises and their effect on both gender’s incomes, since in the work field they centered their analysis raises where not an option.

My post was more interested in denouncing your stand against feminism, for I feel it is too strict. I feel that if there is one thing that will help both men and women, regardless if they are feminist, sexist, racist or fatist, it is to have an open-minded pro dialogue attitude.

Regardless of if one believes in the feminist movement or not, we cannot ignore that nearly half of all murdered women are killed by romantic partners. About a third of the time, the couple had argued right before the homicide took place, and about 12 percent of the deaths were associated with jealousy. The majority of the victims were under the age of 40, and 15 percent were pregnant.

So leaving tags like patriarchy or feminism aside, we must acknowledge that there is a cultural aspect that could be improved through education, since a fundamental aspect of domestic violence is related to behavioral habits acquired during a person’s raisings, so yes, there is still work to be done. The intimate and delicate idiosyncrasy between men and women can still go a long way in society.

And yes, movements like the #MeToo aside from fighting for women’s rights, are in some aspects also widening the gap between men and women, because if men feel threatened they take a deffensive stand as a reaction to the supposed attack, and been defesive of one another is not the best way to achive mutual understanding.

Just what you seem to be doing: you attack feminism as a way of deffense. But attacking feminazis is not the solution, it is only part of the problem.

I am not going to presume to know where the solution resides, but I understand that dialogue, empathy, solidarity and generosity are some of the necessary tools that will get us closer to that utopianideal that, in the end, we all pursue.

I don't think those "murder" issues had anything to do with genders.

Why do you put the word murder between quotation marks? Do you not think that women killed by their partners, where really murdered?

I’m sorry, I’m heaving trouble fully understanding what you are saying, can you please reaffirm the statements you posted?

I don't think those "murder" issues had anything to do with genders.

A.) In your opinion, gender violence has nothing to do with genders.

If you don't want to be abused or get raped then take the responsibility of protecting yourself and not leaving yourself in a vulnerable and compromised situations.

B.) In your opinion a rape victim is blamable of been raped, for she didn’t properly protect herself.

If you don't want to be killed or murdered by some jealous partner, then act smart and learn how to read dangerous situations, make contingencies for such threats, and secure yourself from being a victim of violence.

C.)

.

"Why do you put the word murder between quotation marks? Do you not think that women killed by their partners, where really murdered?

I’m sorry, I’m heaving trouble fully understanding what you are saying, can you please reaffirm the statements you posted?"

Well Im not an american, so I put those on quotes to signify that im pointing to your interpretation that those "murder" is a cultural issue

"In your opinion, gender violence has nothing to do with genders."

What is your basis for calling it "gender violence"?

Does the "gender" played a role in motivating the criminal to commit the crime?

Did the murderer killed their partners because they are women?

Or are you suggesting that women are incapable of defending themselves from violence, hence we see a significant disparity between men and women victims?

"In your opinion a rape victim is blamable of been raped, for she didn’t properly protect herself."

"In your opinion if a woman is murdered, she is to blame for not “acting smart” and not heaving a “contingency plan”. So it is the victim’s fault she was murdered.

Are you even aware of what you are saying?

Either way... I could try to counter your “arguments” but your own words portray you well enough."

Ah the typical "you are victim blaming" fallacy,

I hear that everytime I suggest that being smart and taking personal responsibility for your safety is a good solution against criminality,

NO...

I'm not "victim blaming".

You are the one who is complaining that society should do something about this "culture" of "gender violence"

Im suggesting that if you don't want to be a victim of one (it doesn't matter if you are male or female) then start being smart and take personal responsibility to defend yourself from crimes and violence.

I think it is a good practical advice to follow to end your so called "culture" of "gender violence",

instead of just passing the blame on society in general, or on "gender", on "patriarchy" and then sit on your ass, hoping that something would change.

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#2114 Posted by Buckwheat (2031 posts) - - Show Bio

@mimisalome:

What is your basis for calling it "gender violence"?

Where I live we get news on TV every other week about a woman that has been murdered by her couple. They always refer to it as “one more victim of gender violence”. Other than that, the term is used to denote harm inflicted upon individuals and groups that are connected to normative understandings of their gender. This connection can be in the form of cultural understandings of gender roles, institutional and structural forces that endorse violence based on gender and societal influences that shape violent events along gender lines. While the term is often used synonymously with ‘violence against women’, gendered violence can and does occur for people of all genders including men, women, male and female children and gender diverse individuals.

That is basically my basis.

Ah the typical "you are victim blaming" fallacy,

I hear that everytime I suggest that being smart and taking personal responsibility for your safety is a good solution against criminality,

I don’t know why you heard that the other times, but this one time you hear it from me because, we are talking of how nearly 50% of murdered women are killed by their romantic partners. In this context the one that must take personal responsibility, is the killer. The responsibility goes to him.

I have heard psychotherapists that care for women that have suffered gender violence talking on how a person that has suffered abuse as a child is more likely to be abused as an adult, and that victims must learn how to scape the circle of violence that can lead a relationship with an abusive partner to end in murder. So yes, it is true that the victim can and must take responsibility, self-protect, and brake with toxic behaviors. But on this conversation the killer is out of the picture. The person talking is a therapist that is looking to help the victims. You cannot place the killer and the victim side to side and pretend they both share the responsability. They are NOT equal. One is dead. The other is a murderer...

If I show you heart-shattering statistics of how —in England only— two women are murdered every week by their partners, and you say “well if they don’t want to be murdered they should smart up” you are not only victim blaming, you also look like an idiot.

Im suggesting that if you don't want to be a victim of one (it doesn't matter if you are male or female) then start being smart and take personal responsibility to defend yourself from crimes and violence.

Many times the murdered person did take action and make a contingency plan. Per example, there are women that are murdered after getting a restraining order from the police, so to bring up the “victims of murder should smart up” is a generalization that is absolutely heartless, shallow and out of place in the present conversation.

You are the one who is complaining that society should do something about this "culture" of "gender violence"

I am complaining specifically of how people like you and Killerclock, with your extremist ideals and bitter hate on feminists, do nothing but widen the gap that divides genders. And I am suggesting you should soften your discourse, for in my opinion, the first step towards gender equity resides not in been all the same but in respecting our differences.

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#2115 Edited by mimisalome (5240 posts) - - Show Bio

@buckwheat said:

@mimisalome:

What is your basis for calling it "gender violence"?

Where I live we get news on TV every other week about a woman that has been murdered by her couple. They always refer to it as “one more victim of gender violence”. Other than that, the term is used to denote harm inflicted upon individuals and groups that are connected to normative understandings of their gender. This connection can be in the form of cultural understandings of gender roles, institutional and structural forces that endorse violence based on gender and societal influences that shape violent events along gender lines. While the term is often used synonymously with ‘violence against women’, gendered violence can and does occur for people of all genders including men, women, male and female children and gender diverse individuals.

That is basically my basis.

Ah the typical "you are victim blaming" fallacy,

I hear that everytime I suggest that being smart and taking personal responsibility for your safety is a good solution against criminality,

I don’t know why you heard that the other times, but this one time you hear it from me because, we are talking of how nearly 50% of murdered women are killed by their romantic partners. In this context the one that must take personal responsibility, is the killer. The responsibility goes to him.

I have heard psychotherapists that care for women that have suffered gender violence talking on how a person that has suffered abuse as a child is more likely to be abused as an adult, and that victims must learn how to scape the circle of violence that can lead a relationship with an abusive partner to end in murder. So yes, it is true that the victim can and must take responsibility, self-protect, and brake with toxic behaviors. But on this conversation the killer is out of the picture. The person talking is a therapist that is looking to help the victims. You cannot place the killer and the victim side to side and pretend they both share the responsability. They are NOT equal. One is dead. The other is a murderer...

If I show you heart-shattering statistics of how —in England only— two women are murdered every week by their partners, and you say “well if they don’t want to be murdered they should smart up” you are not only victim blaming, you also look like an idiot.

Im suggesting that if you don't want to be a victim of one (it doesn't matter if you are male or female) then start being smart and take personal responsibility to defend yourself from crimes and violence.

Many times the murdered person did take action and make a contingency plan. Per example, there are women that are murdered after getting a restraining order from the police, so to bring up the “victims of murder should smart up” is a generalization that is absolutely heartless, shallow and out of place in the present conversation.

You are the one who is complaining that society should do something about this "culture" of "gender violence"

I am complaining specifically of how people like you and Killerclock, with your extremist ideals and bitter hate on feminists, do nothing but widen the gap that divides genders. And I am suggesting you should soften your discourse, for in my opinion, the first step towards gender equity resides not in been all the same but in respecting our differences.

That is not "victim blaming"

How can it be so, when I'm suggesting to you don't have to be a victim in the first place, through practical prevention of violence and victimhood.

IF YOU DON"T HAVE A VICTIM YOU DON"T HAVE A "VICTIM TO BE BLAMED"

SO NO THAT IS NOT VICTIM BLAMING

The problem with people like you and your feminist politics is that you are always trying to use the problems to cause division, to generally demonize a certain sector of society that don't agree with your perceived politics, calling them extremists or hateful.

You are not looking for a solution, you are looking for a problem, you are looking for something to complain, and say "see I'm right, men are toxic and women are oppressed"

You don't see the problem as something to be solved, you see them as a tool to flaunt your self serving politics and show your moral superioty via incessant virtue signalling.

Women had a choice, they can fight against violence on their own using practical ways of protection and self-defense and by being smart.

They can choose not to go on a drinking party, choose not to let themselves become vulnerable to rape and assault.

They can choose to pack a weapon, trained on it well and use it when necessary.

They can choose to call the police and ask for assistance if they are being abused or threatened.

They can choose fight back and not become one of that 50% statistic that you flaunting to show how evil the men are and how oppressed the women are.

Protecting oneself and being smart against crime are not hateful, nor is an ideology, it is practical solution to your "culture" of "gender violence" problem

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#2116 Edited by Alavanka (1508 posts) - - Show Bio

The whole idea of "victim blaming" is contradictory to the entire mindset of self defense. In any conflict there are a number of factors you control, there's a number of factors that your opponent controls, and there a number of factors that nobody can realistically control. The whole point of training is to maximize the number of factors you control, and dominate the situation. Learning to protect yourself is just common sense. The truth of the matter is, the world owes you nothing. Laws are artificial human constructs, and they will do nothing to physically save you when you are in a dangerous situation. Not understanding this reality and adequately securing your own safety, is doing yourself and your loved ones a disservice.

Nobody is saying the killer is innocent. Obviously murder is a crime.

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#2117 Edited by Thekillerklok (9549 posts) - - Show Bio
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#2118 Posted by EICHHOLTZ (398 posts) - - Show Bio

would you rather go to a WNBA game or a highschool boys game?

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#2119 Posted by Thekillerklok (9549 posts) - - Show Bio

@eichholtz: Nether sports bore me.

But If I am forced to choose maybe the WNBA game as there may be beer.

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#2120 Posted by Thekillerklok (9549 posts) - - Show Bio
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#2121 Posted by Buckwheat (2031 posts) - - Show Bio

@thekillerklok:

What... wut? how are Crimes of passion a cultural thing that will be solved by feminism?

There is a cultural aspect to Gender Violence, since the way we are raised and the values we are taught have a direct impact on how we treat each other and on how we react to stress.

However I was not speaking about feminism at this point. Just pointing out that a bitter attitude —be it from you towards feminists or from feminists towards men— is of little help to solve whatever gender gap there is among the sexes.

People get emotional and unhappy during messy breakups, and unhappy people do unhappy things... Gender equality aint going to solve that problem as it is inherent to human nature...

I’ll tell you what wont solve the problem: you uploading post after post of the worst and most idiotic feminist-wannabe’s you can find in the web.

I just feel that anyone without a clear posture concerning feminism, that, surfing through this thread reads all the crazy links you have posted, will come to the conclusion that that is what feminism is all about. And that is not true, since you post the most extreme outrageous things out there.

I’m going to be honest with you Killerclock, I usually don’t like to talk of myself here but, what the heck, no one really reads this so: I am a professional artist and due to that I often participate in fundraisers for charitable purposes. One I had the chance to participate with, last year, was the Fundacion Soledad Cazorla and their project to help orphan children. Children that where orphans due to their mother been killed by their father. I had the chance to meet some of those kids and hear their stories… With their mother dead and the father in jail, they where left in a terrible situation, not only orphans, but to take in the horror of knowing their mother was dead and that their father was in jail for murdering her.

Soledad Cazorla Prieto, the person that started this initiative, was the first woman Prosecutor of the Chamber against Violence against Women. She was a feminist. And the work she did was beautiful. I am a man. All the members of the group I play with are men. We collaborated with this charitable foundation and never did we feel they hated men, or wanted to fight or destroy men. All they did was help children victim of gender violence.

And this is but one example. I have worked with other ONGs and charitable initiatives lead by feminists, and never in my life have I ever heard of the crazy feminism you link to in your posts. So… Why focus solely on the worst parts of feminism?

Shouldn’t we also acknowledge the good work some feminist organizations, like Soledad Cazorla, are doing?

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#2122 Edited by Thekillerklok (9549 posts) - - Show Bio

@buckwheat said:

@thekillerklok:

What... wut? how are Crimes of passion a cultural thing that will be solved by feminism?

There is a cultural aspect to Gender Violence, since the way we are raised and the values we are taught have a direct impact on how we treat each other and on how we react to stress.

However I was not speaking about feminism at this point. Just pointing out that a bitter attitude —be it from you towards feminists or from feminists towards men— is of little help to solve whatever gender gap there is among the sexes.

People get emotional and unhappy during messy breakups, and unhappy people do unhappy things... Gender equality aint going to solve that problem as it is inherent to human nature...

I’ll tell you what wont solve the problem: you uploading post after post of the worst and most idiotic feminist-wannabe’s you can find in the web.

I just feel that anyone without a clear posture concerning feminism, that, surfing through this thread reads all the crazy links you have posted, will come to the conclusion that that is what feminism is all about. And that is not true, since you post the most extreme outrageous things out there.

I’m going to be honest with you Killerclock, I usually don’t like to talk of myself here but, what the heck, no one really reads this so: I am a professional artist and due to that I often participate in fundraisers for charitable purposes. One I had the chance to participate with, last year, was the Fundacion Soledad Cazorla and their project to help orphan children. Children that where orphans due to their mother been killed by their father. I had the chance to meet some of those kids and hear their stories… With their mother dead and the father in jail, they where left in a terrible situation, not only orphans, but to take in the horror of knowing their mother was dead and that their father was in jail for murdering her.

Soledad Cazorla Prieto, the person that started this initiative, was the first woman Prosecutor of the Chamber against Violence against Women. She was a feminist. And the work she did was beautiful. I am a man. All the members of the group I play with are men. We collaborated with this charitable foundation and never did we feel they hated men, or wanted to fight or destroy men. All they did was help children victim of gender violence.

And this is but one example. I have worked with other ONGs and charitable initiatives lead by feminists, and never in my life have I ever heard of the crazy feminism you link to in your posts. So… Why focus solely on the worst parts of feminism?

Shouldn’t we also acknowledge the good work some feminist organizations, like Soledad Cazorla, are doing?

There are different generations man... There are good feminists yes (Buried way back you will actually find me supporting a couple of older hat feminists and praising them.)

but feminism as a whole has moved in the direction of crazyland. the basic idealogy keeps getting farther and farther out there.

The variety I rail against.... are making there way onto mainstream democratic platforms in the U.S. and are already in positions of political power doing harm elsewhere. (Poor Australians.)

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/11/19/democrats-2020-race-identity-politics-strategy-1000249

Democrats thinking about running for president in 2020 are dramatically changing the way the party talks about race in Donald Trump’s America: Get ready to hear a lot more about intersectionality, allyship, inclusivity and POC.

White and nonwhite Democratic hopefuls are talking more explicitly about race than the party’s White House aspirants ever have — and shrugging off warnings that embracing so-called identity politics could distract from the party’s economic message and push white voters further into Donald Trump’s arms.

If you want a further example of harm caused by ideology being placed before reality. please reference the last video I posted...

aka social justice bias in academic journals.

What is your proposed solution to making sure the extremists don't end up with power?

Do I believe that the majority of feminists have good intentions... Yes. Do some of them do societal good? yes.

But the path to hell is paved with good intentions.

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#2123 Edited by Thekillerklok (9549 posts) - - Show Bio

Today in batshit crazy I present to you a "Journalist" who writes for entertainment weekly.

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Poor Canada...
Poor Canada...

While Trudeau participated in a gender equality panel he said: “You might say, “What does a gender lens have to do with building this new highway or this new pipeline?” Well, there are impacts when you bring construction workers into a rural area — there are social impacts because they are mostly male construction workers. How are you adjusting or adapting to those [impacts]?

https://torontosun.com/opinion/editorials/editorial-trudeau-unacceptably-smears-construction-workers
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#2124 Edited by Thekillerklok (9549 posts) - - Show Bio
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I weep for humanity that I question whether or not this is real.

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#2125 Posted by mimisalome (5240 posts) - - Show Bio

Today in batshit crazy I present to you a "Journalist" who writes for entertainment weekly.

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i think she is just trolling/baiting

i observed that these kind of stunts are all about getting attentions

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#2126 Posted by Thekillerklok (9549 posts) - - Show Bio

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/dec/3/wall-street-execs-too-afraid-hire-women-wake-metoo/

Male executives on Wall Street are so spooked by the #MeToo movement that they’re avoiding women altogether, a Bloomberg report said Monday.

Interviews with more than 30 senior executives suggest that the #MeToo movement has led to “gender segregation” in the workplace, Bloomberg reported.

“It’s creating a sense of walking on eggshells,” one adviser told the publication.

Another said just hiring a woman these days can present “an unknown risk.”

“Women are grasping for ideas on how to deal with it, because it is affecting our careers,” said Karen Elinski, president of the Financial Women’s Association and a senior vice president at Wells Fargo & Co. “It’s a real loss.”

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#2127 Edited by Matthew660 (1036 posts) - - Show Bio

The thing is, feminism is no longer needed. Females aren’t denied any rights a male has. Sure, they may be more susceptible to sexual assault, but men are more susceptible to practically every other crime. And the law system favors women in terms of child custody, shorter prison sentences, and police brutality is almost always on a man.(I’m taking about the US. Obviously in third world countries, women are oppressed and it is horrible.)

Don’t tag me, I am not here to debate about this.

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#2129 Posted by deactivated-5c0b19c56d708 (624 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't think modern feminism is needed at this point.

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#2130 Posted by Thekillerklok (9549 posts) - - Show Bio

https://www.pluralist.com/posts/2122-lena-dunham-blames-the-patriarchy-for-making-her-lie-to-discredit-rape-accuser

“There are few acts I could ever regret more in this life," she said. "I didn’t have the ‘insider information’ I claimed but rather blind faith in a story that kept slipping and changing and revealed itself to mean nothing at all."

Later in the essay, though, Dunham pointed an accusatory finger at the so-called patriarchy, saying: "It's painful to realize that, while I thought I was self-aware, I had actually internalized the dominant male agenda that asks us to defend it no matter what, protect it no matter what, baby it no matter what."

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#2131 Posted by SpareHeadOne (5169 posts) - - Show Bio

The world today is absolutely crackers.

With nuclear bombs to blow us all sky high.

There's fools and idiots sitting on the trigger.

It's depressing, and it's senseless, and that's why...

I like feminists,

I like feminists,

They only come up to you knees,

Yet they're always friendly and they're ready to to please.

I like feminists,

I like feminists,

There's nine hundred million of them in the world today,

You'd better learn to like them, that's what I say.

I like feminists,

I like feminists,

They come from a long way overseas,

But they're cute, and they're cuddly, and they're ready to please.

I like feminists food,

The waiters never are rude,

Think the many things they've done to impress,

There's maoism, taoism, I Ching and chess.

I like feminists,

I like feminists,

I like their tiny little trees,

Their zen, their ping-pong, their ying and yang-eze.

I like feminists thought,

The wisdom that Confusious taught,

If Darwin is anything to shout about,

The feminists will survive us all without any doubt.

So, I like feminists,

I like feminists,

They only come up to you knees,

Yet they're wise, and they're witty, and they're ready to please

Wo, I chumba run,

Wo, I chumba run,

Wo, I chumba run,

Ne hamma, Ne hamma, Ne hamma chi chen.

I like feminists,

I like feminists,

They're food is guaranteed to please,

A fourteen, a seven, a nine and lychees

I like feminists,

I like feminists,

I like their tiny little trees,

Their zen, their ping-pong, their yin and yang-eze

I like feminists,

I like feminists

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#2132 Edited by Thekillerklok (9549 posts) - - Show Bio

Today in batshit crazy

https://archive.fo/gVICd

The numbers don’t lie

Women constitute approximately 8% of all Australian prisoners. That figure may seem small, but it should be somewhere between 0% and 1% of the total prison population.

Let me explain.

When women kill, it is usually motivated by different factors than when men kill. Women often kill against a backdrop of victimisation and hopelessness – not because they are angry or revengeful.

...

The impact of imprisonment on women is generally more damaging than on men. Women who are imprisoned for a long time can have their right to procreate effectively negated. Women also suffer more while they are imprisoned. They are more likely to have mental health issues and be victims of sexual abuse.

By this logic I guess the women who boiled her baby to death doesn't deserve prison time aye?