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#1 Edited by Saren (27905 posts) - - Show Bio

All your discussions about feminism, misogyny, patriarchy, anti-feminism et al can go here. We now have yet another containment thread, so there is no need to make one more thread complaining about the evil misogynists or the mean ol' feminazis.

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#2 Posted by ComicStooge (22062 posts) - - Show Bio

First a thread on racism now this?

Saren's a feminist, anti-white liberal. I knew it. All the threads being made by him/her point to the truth.

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#4 Posted by Frozen (21074 posts) - - Show Bio

@dernman said:

I can already see feminists saying the feminism thread should only be for feminists.

Let them have it.

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#6 Posted by deactivated-59dfd33ed3601 (5575 posts) - - Show Bio

Why do some men get riled up at the mere thought of feminism? It isn't like feminists are part of some terrorist group that want to kill off the male population.

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#7 Edited by Dernman (25687 posts) - - Show Bio

*cough*#killallmen*cough*

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#8 Edited by Mandarinestro (7651 posts) - - Show Bio

(cough)killallwhitemen(cough)

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#9 Posted by kyrees (13371 posts) - - Show Bio

Why do some men get riled up at the mere thought of feminism? It isn't like feminists are part of some terrorist group that want to kill off the male population.

many 3rd wave feminists practically say kill all men.

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#10 Edited by SC (17763 posts) - - Show Bio

@dernman said:

I can already see feminists saying the feminism thread should only be for feminists.

Let me see, CV feminists…. Bumpyboo, Judasnixon, Lunacyde… probably a few more, some of the most nice, chill and relaxed, all inclusive users around… the type that generally think all threads are for all users… so what feminists are you referring to with above? Does Anita Sarkeesian have a CV account now? Cause if she does, I'll ban it. 0_0.

Anyway I could be considered a feminist and I think all threads at CV should be for all users. I even tend to post on the threads that ask questions specifically towards Americans, Woman, Black people, "only" when they interest me.

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#11 Posted by deactivated-59dfd33ed3601 (5575 posts) - - Show Bio

@dernman said:

*cough*#killallmen*cough*

(cough)killallwhitemen(cough)

Just stop. I would be more concerned about the U.S. being behind ISIS than some satire trending topic.

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#12 Edited by Dernman (25687 posts) - - Show Bio

@sc: Does Anita Sarkeesian have a CV account now? Cause if she does, I'll ban it.

To clarify you're joking here right? and how much?

EDIT: If you're not then why?

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#13 Posted by deactivated-59dfd33ed3601 (5575 posts) - - Show Bio

@kyrees said:
@somayareece said:

Why do some men get riled up at the mere thought of feminism? It isn't like feminists are part of some terrorist group that want to kill off the male population.

many 3rd wave feminists practically say kill all men.

You can't take them seriously. They know we need men in order to keep biodiversity and stability among the human race.

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#14 Edited by Dernman (25687 posts) - - Show Bio
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#15 Posted by Dernman (25687 posts) - - Show Bio

@kyrees: reverse that kill all hashtag and see how it would be such a different story.

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#16 Posted by deactivated-59dfd33ed3601 (5575 posts) - - Show Bio

@dernman: The only problem here is you associating feminazis with what feminism is truly about. You can rant all you want but you aren't doing much to help the cause.

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#17 Edited by i_like_swords (26030 posts) - - Show Bio

I propose a challenge. Convert me to feminism in three sentences. GO!

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#18 Edited by kyrees (13371 posts) - - Show Bio

@somayareece said:
@kyrees said:
@somayareece said:

Why do some men get riled up at the mere thought of feminism? It isn't like feminists are part of some terrorist group that want to kill off the male population.

many 3rd wave feminists practically say kill all men.

You can't take them seriously. They know we need men in order to keep biodiversity and stability among the human race.

try saying that to them and you'd be label a whole lot of weird stuff like supporting the patriarchy or you're not feminist if you are against us. it also includes other more intelligent 3rd wave feminists who are egalitarian but are not in their midst.

they also conveniently ignore men's right in their arguments of so called equality which if dissected accordingly, is something the nazis would like.

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#19 Posted by Cable_Extreme (16706 posts) - - Show Bio

@somayareece: because thier masculinity won't let them have anything to do with a feminine synonym.

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#20 Posted by kyrees (13371 posts) - - Show Bio

@dernman said:

reverse that kill all hashtag and see how it would be such a different story.

i've seen enough "kill all" mob mentalities that it's practically the same to me.

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#21 Posted by Bluejay4 (4037 posts) - - Show Bio

@somayareece: er...what exactly makes these feminatzis different to regular feminists? To my knowledge there's no entrance exam to being a feminist.

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#22 Edited by Dernman (25687 posts) - - Show Bio

@somayareece: Except I don't agree there is a great separation between the two anymore and as time goes by the gulf shrinks. It doesn't mean what it once did. At least in the western world. Speaking out against it even a little bit does help.

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#23 Posted by SC (17763 posts) - - Show Bio

@dernman said:

@sc: Does Anita Sarkeesian have a CV account now? Cause if she does, I'll ban it.

To clarify you're joking here right? and how much?

You mean if Anita Sarkeesian really had a CV account would I just ban her for no reason? Heh heh. Yeah I was joking, it would be unfair and it would be unprofessional of my position, but I find a lot of her arguments really really bad, and I think she gives feminism a bad name, the same way that Westboro Baptist Church gives religion a bad name. I think both get undue media attention and coverage, and that too many people pick low hanging fruit as far as criticism towards either group with both respective elements.

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#24 Posted by Cable_Extreme (16706 posts) - - Show Bio

@sc: did you see her argument about certain games and movies having too many men represented and is therefore sexist? She called it the smurfette effect or something like that.

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#25 Edited by Dextersinister (8561 posts) - - Show Bio

@somayareece:


@dernman said:

@somayareece: Except I don't agree there is a great separation between the two anymore and as time goes by the gulf shrinks. It doesn't mean what it once did. At least in the western world. Speaking out against it even a little bit does help.

Close to what dernman just said, I keep hearing the poor argument from it's defenders that it's about what it means when it isn't, it's about what it does.

Feminism gets a lot of dislike around here because this is a comic website and it's influence has been almost entirely negative. Feminist media is some of the worst around.

Replacing a male character with a female has gotten more coverage by feminists than the introduction of every female character combined over the last few years.

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#26 Posted by deactivated-59dfd33ed3601 (5575 posts) - - Show Bio

@bluejay4 said:

@somayareece: er...what exactly makes these feminatzis different to regular feminists? To my knowledge there's no entrance exam to being a feminist.

@dernman said:

@somayareece: Except I don't agree there is a great separation between the two anymore and as time goes by the gulf shrinks. It doesn't mean what it once did. At least in the western world. Speaking out against it even a little bit does help.

Beyonce is a feminist. Do you see her going around saying "kill all men"? No. All feminists aren't the same and that are what you guys are failing to realize. It reminds of how Hitler hated all Jews despite the many good ones. I guess I won't do much to convince yall but we got bigger problems in the world than what feminazis think about men. They are clearly mentally illed and have some personal issues to fixed.

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#27 Edited by Cable_Extreme (16706 posts) - - Show Bio

@somayareece: @dernman: saying there is no difference between the feminist "radicals" and simple feminism is misleading. The "feminazis" as so many people use, are the very few that get media attention. Saying you don't think you can seperate the two is like saying all Christians are like Westboroh babtist, or that all Muslims are terrorist etc.. The radicals of a certain group do not speak for the majority.

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#28 Edited by Dernman (25687 posts) - - Show Bio
@somayareece said:
@bluejay4 said:

@somayareece: er...what exactly makes these feminatzis different to regular feminists? To my knowledge there's no entrance exam to being a feminist.

@dernman said:

@somayareece: Except I don't agree there is a great separation between the two anymore and as time goes by the gulf shrinks. It doesn't mean what it once did. At least in the western world. Speaking out against it even a little bit does help.

Beyonce is a feminist. Do you see her going around saying "kill all men"? No. All feminists aren't the same and that are what you guys are failing to realize. It reminds of how Hitler hated all Jews despite the many good ones. I guess I won't do much to convince yall but we got bigger problems in the world than what feminazis think about men. They are clearly mentally illed and have some personal issues to fixed.

Funny because I already new they weren't all the same but by your logic you are not realizing they are not all the same because there are those who do go around saying that. There are others things extreme and just boil down to ridiculous thinking but it's those things like that that are changing what feminism means. That group only is only increasing because more are getting indoctrinated by the controlled narrative. That's why more and more moderates are leaving.

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#29 Edited by Dextersinister (8561 posts) - - Show Bio

@somayareece:

Beyonce is a feminist.

How many feminist articles has she written or causes has she spearheaded.

It reminds of how Hitler hated all Jews despite the many good ones.

Horrible comparison, feminism is a group you can choose to join.

Here's a better example, the swedish foreign ministeris a feminist, spoke out against treatment of women in Saudi, this was a good thing, feminism doesn't really touch problems over there which in itself is a major problem with feminism but then took it back as it was seen as islamophobic or because of the arms deal.

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#30 Edited by deactivated-59dfd33ed3601 (5575 posts) - - Show Bio

@cable_extreme said:

@somayareece: @dernman: saying there is no difference between the feminist "radicals" and simple feminism is misleading. The "feminazis" as so many people use, are the very few that get media attention. Saying you don't think you can seperate the two is like saying all Christians are like Westboroh babtist, or that all Muslims are terrorist etc.. The radicals of a certain group do not speak for the majority.

There was a Muslim lady not too long ago that got discriminated against by many people on a plane that thought she was planning on a bomb attack and the event left her scarred and upset.

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#31 Edited by Cable_Extreme (16706 posts) - - Show Bio

@somayareece: yeah, society is messed up, and the point to be made here is for people to not associate everyone in a certain group based on a loud minority.

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#32 Posted by Dernman (25687 posts) - - Show Bio

@cable_extreme: saying there is no difference between the feminist "radicals" and simple feminism is misleading. The "feminazis" as so many people use, are the very few that get media attention. Saying you don't think you can seperate the two is like saying all Christians are like Westboroh babtist, or that all Muslims are terrorist etc.. The radicals of a certain group do not speak for the majority.

I didn't say there was no difference. I said over time difference is shrinking and that it didn't mean what it once did.

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#34 Posted by Cable_Extreme (16706 posts) - - Show Bio

@somayareece: @dernman: well, your argument is that the contrast between the extreme side of feminism and the majority side of feminism isn't a very big gap? If I am wrong correct me.

The problem is that many people associate the extreme with everyone else, which Soma gave an example. The difference between the completely sexist claims a lot of feminist extremist make are also condemned by many feminist. There is still a significant contrast between the normal and the extreme. The problem is, everyone wants something/someone to yell at.

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#35 Edited by Dextersinister (8561 posts) - - Show Bio

@cable_extreme:

The problem is that many people associate the extreme with everyone else, which Soma gave an example. The difference between the completely sexist claims a lot of feminist extremist make are also condemned by many feminist. There is still a significant contrast between the normal and the extreme. The problem is, everyone wants something/someone to yell at.

I think the problem here is that you say that these people are condemned yet unlike extremists of say Christians these people represent feminism in the mainstream, they have a lot of followers/readers and seem pretty messed up views.

Feminist Frequency, Vox, Jezebel, the Guardian online, these groups are at best trolls. If these people don't represent feminism then the group needs to get it's house in order because this is the mouthpiece.

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#36 Posted by Pharoh_Atem (44232 posts) - - Show Bio

By definition, feminism, is a belief of equality between both the male and female gender, I tottally adhere to, and something that should be endorsed. Thing is though, for some, the loud minority - outguns the majority - , and they see the whole cause as the female power move to place themselves above men and sh!t.

Sad, really.

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#37 Edited by Pyrogram (46502 posts) - - Show Bio
@dextersinister said:

@cable_extreme:

The problem is that many people associate the extreme with everyone else, which Soma gave an example. The difference between the completely sexist claims a lot of feminist extremist make are also condemned by many feminist. There is still a significant contrast between the normal and the extreme. The problem is, everyone wants something/someone to yell at.

I think the problem here is that you say that these people are condemned yet unlike extremists of say Christians these people represent feminism in the mainstream, they have a lot of followers/readers and seem pretty messed up views.

That same argument could be used for Christianity. There are millions of insane people who follow Christianity and are all extreme and have a larger following than any extreme feminist.

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#38 Posted by Dernman (25687 posts) - - Show Bio

@cable_extreme: My argument is that over time the two sides are shrinking. The gap was much larger in the past than it is now and will be later on. Perhaps I should have said the gap isn't as large as you think instead of what I said. That's why there are infighting between the old and new but the new. Slowly over time the bar shifts what is considered the norm. It doesn't happen over night. It's an idea here and an idea there.

Side note for the record there are different levels of extreme that don't reach calling kill all men.

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#39 Posted by SC (17763 posts) - - Show Bio

@cable_extreme: I'll look it up now. I generally try to avoid "internet personalities" and the arguments they make if I think they aren't good at making arguments. Just seems like a waste of time. I have only seen a few of FeministFrequency's videos and they aren't that good. Hence. Oh also the other thing is, since her content is so flawed, I often see a lot of people attempting to point out how flawed her arguments are, but a lot of those individuals arguments aren't so great either. Its like a spiral of mediocrity.

The Smurfette Principle? The main reason I am critical of her points, is because and this applies to a lot of people, arguments and points, its not that she is one hundred percent right or one hundred percent wrong, there is some truth, some accuracy, and validity to her points, but often the causes of phenomena, the reasons behind the phenomena, are misattributed. Like individuals approaches to creative ventures can have many similarities, and these develop in various ways. Its why children's drawings often share similarities (lots of children like drawing houses, and suns, things they are familiar with) adults can be more sophisticated than that, but even then, many traditionally would create characters that had certain… idiosyncrasies. This can mean without any active sexist or racist intent, you end up with fiction with not so much diversity. The point she makes about reboots I think is good, but Hollywood isn't about risks, or originality. Its about money. A lot of people gave praise to Disney and Marvel for "taking a creative risk" with Guardians of the Galaxy… but its Disney, so it was really more of a safe bet. With the right marketing, advertising, and branding with the public, you can exceed expectations. Compare this to say… DC/WB who have legit pop culture icons… its not always about how much money you can earn as much as how much money should you be able to wring out of a property.Or another simple way to look at it, are people tend to be more passively and consciously greedy than consciously racist or sexist.

Sorry tangent, but yeah rebooting movies is a thing in modern times, a safe bet, but a lot of source material being updated… well yeah its going to lack diversity and or seem a bit funny compared to the fiction being created by the people of today who grew up in an age where high speed broadband internet existed before they could walk. Which is also going to affect how people write and receive fiction. Her examples jump all over the place as if society and attitudes don't change, adapt which is.. odd. That being said I do wish more creative people wrote out of their comfort zone, because thats a challenge and I think fiction is better when its challenging.

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#40 Edited by Dernman (25687 posts) - - Show Bio
@pyrogram said:
@dextersinister said:

@cable_extreme:

The problem is that many people associate the extreme with everyone else, which Soma gave an example. The difference between the completely sexist claims a lot of feminist extremist make are also condemned by many feminist. There is still a significant contrast between the normal and the extreme. The problem is, everyone wants something/someone to yell at.

I think the problem here is that you say that these people are condemned yet unlike extremists of say Christians these people represent feminism in the mainstream, they have a lot of followers/readers and seem pretty messed up views.

That same argument could be used for Christianity. There are millions of insane people who follow Christianity and are all extreme and have a larger following than any extreme feminist.

That doesn't actually help your argument. All it does is open up the fact that Christianity is open to turn to the extreme. Which most already know with religion even the religious.

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#41 Posted by Pyrogram (46502 posts) - - Show Bio

@dernman: I didn't make an argument, I was using his logic about one thing on another thing.

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#42 Posted by Lvenger (36109 posts) - - Show Bio

Well we're substituting many in fighting and arguing threads on feminism for just the one now eh? I suppose that might be better but it could be akin to containing all the festering wound in a single band aid depending on what is discussed here.

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#43 Posted by Dernman (25687 posts) - - Show Bio

@pyrogram: You used that to rebut his post. Unless you just wanted to insert something dig religion for no reason (because nobody is talking about it) it implies a disagreement with is logic and implies an argument on your half. Going by your past history on the subject it's not an unreasonable assumption. I chose to give you the benefit of the doubt that you were not making a dig and was disagreeing.

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#44 Edited by Cable_Extreme (16706 posts) - - Show Bio

@sc: that is exactly how I felt, such things are a cause from certain phenomenon that she misrepresents as sexist. (Couldn't find the right words until your post) She says a few good things in her videos, but they are definitely outnumbered by illogical arguments/claims. I think she is doing worse for feminism than she is doing good.

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#45 Posted by Pyrogram (46502 posts) - - Show Bio

@dernman: I was disagreeing with his logic, that's all.

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#46 Edited by Cable_Extreme (16706 posts) - - Show Bio

@pyrogram: @dernman: I disagree, I don't think there were many hard core (extremist) feminist in the past, I think the more people that look at them, and listen to them, the more they will realize crudeness and sexism gets them a media platform as well as money. I think the gap is getting much bigger,

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#47 Edited by Dernman (25687 posts) - - Show Bio

@cable_extreme: I disagree, I don't think there were many hard core (extremist) feminist in the past,

For f'cks sake man how can you say you disagree with something I didn't say?

EDIT: Sounded angrier than I meant it to be.

EDIT: You also tagged Pyro so maybe you're not saying I said that. In that case my bad.

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#48 Posted by Eeshaan1685 (3517 posts) - - Show Bio

@dernman:3rd wave feminism with all of it's gender role & cis privilege bullshit isn't a religion. It's a crazy religious cult. Charles Manson would be proud of Sarkeesian lol.

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#49 Posted by Cable_Extreme (16706 posts) - - Show Bio

@pyrogram: @dernman: I was refering to you Dernman, if I misrepresented your argument, then my apologies. I read that you said that the gap is closing between the loud minority of feminist, and the majority which is why you aren't inclined to seperate them anymore. My point is that I think the gap is increasing.

Here is what I was refering to "My argument is that over time the two sides are shrinking. The gap was much larger in the past than it is now and will be later on." your post #38 on this thread.

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#50 Edited by Cable_Extreme (16706 posts) - - Show Bio

@avenger85: what is illogical about fighting agaisnt gender roles? I'm interested in hearing it.