So... the Republicans shut down the government!

Murica

If you don't like the law, change the law. You don't have the votes to change the law? Then shut the hell up, and quit holding the country hostage. The GOP can go f themselves, and the country has had enough of it.

@willpayton: How is it determined how much each person will pay under Obamacare?

WHy isn't tHere a law wHere Republicans or Democrats will br locked up if tHey sHut down tHe government?

If they truly believe in their point of view why don't they prove how dedicated they are by being locked up like a Zoo Animal?

Ali got locked up for not wanting to go to war. He knew that they would and he truly believed so much to be against it he went to jail.

-ABstract4$$#073-

Pretty much this.

Those who won the election and got laws passed deserve a chance to make those laws work. If you do everything you can to subvert that and screw them over, then you have no legitimacy in claiming anything once those laws fail. You are also guilty of a form of treason, because you have actively tried to hurt the country and bring down the lawful government, not to mention the economy and the welfare of everyone who lives here.

I'm not an expert, but you should look more into it. My understanding is that: If you are poor, you can now get Medicare (which has been expanded to apply to more low-income people). If you are not poor enough for Medicare, then you can get a subsidy in the form of tax credits, which you can use to pay for insurance. Everyone must have insurance of some sort, or pay a penalty.

For those that dont already get insurance from work, you can go buy insurance in the exchanges. Once there you buy whatever level you want. You can use the tax credits (if you get any) to pay for it. The cost depends on which policy you choose.

The overall benefits of the system are that now there will be many more people covered, and as such the total cost can go down... especially since now a lot of healthy people can come into the system. That's how insurance generally works... those who dont currently need the benefits help to cover those who do, and hence the risk is spread out enough that everyone can afford it. Also, the cost to the government of uninsured people goes down, since now you dont have as many showing up to Emergency Rooms without insurance. Not just that, but since people can get preventive care, the quality of care they get now (versus just showing up in the ER) is better, and should cost less over time, since medical issues can be dealt with before they become bigger problems.

Hope that helps.

#39 Edited by WillPayton (6821 posts) - 14 hours, 43 minutes ago - Show Bio

@joshmightbe said:

Democrats and Republicans are equally to blame because they're more interested in winning the pissing contest than they are with actually doing there jobs.

I disagree with this. What's happening now is part of a pattern. Remember that last time the debt ceiling issue came around, and the credit rating of the US eventually got lowered because of all the problems? What we're seeing time and again is the Republicans holding the country hostage unless they get their way. Even conservative publications were criticizing the Republicans back then and agreeing that it was mostly their fault, and not the Democrats.

And, BTW, Obamacare is based on a plan that was originally a conservative plan. This is not some "liberal" plan that the Republicans hate just because it's liberal. If the Democrats had gotten what they really wanted, we'd have a much better single-payer plan now. But instead we have this compromise plan. You'd imagine the Republicans would be happy with it, but since it was Obama that passed it then they try to destroy it, even though it was originally a conservative idea.

Hear Hear Sir! They ( Republicans and more so the racist Tea Party) will go out of their way to obstruct progress and undermine Obamas' legacy.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2013/09/25/double-down-obamacare-will-increase-avg-individual-market-insurance-premiums-by-99-for-men-62-for-women/?partner=yahootix

http://money.cnn.com/2013/05/14/news/economy/obamacare-premiums/index.html

The problem with these articles and the anti-Obamacare propaganda in general is that they are biased and misleading.

The first comparison is between the cheapest plan available to 27-year-olds pre- and post-Obamacare. The second is between the cheapeast plan available to the average exchange participant, and to the typical 40-year-old pre-Obamacare.

There's a quote from the first article, and shows one of the problems right there. They are not comparing plans that give the same coverage, they are comparing "the cheapest" before and after plans, which could obviously mean a more expensive post-Obamacare plan if Obamacare requires more benefits.

Also, this stuff doesnt look at how much will be saved by not having to pay for ER visits to those who are uninsured, or how much will be saved by preventive care, or how much will be saved by small businesses that no longer have to provide their own health insurance (which costs money to pay someone to do that stuff) if they can simply pay that money to their employees and have them buy it from the exchanges.

Lastly, the reason why many young people pre-Obamacare got very low rate plans is because the insurance companies didnt allow those with pre-existing conditions to sign up. They only took in those who were healthy, and left everyone else to fend for themselves, often having to resort to the ER... at the cost of tax payers. So, yeah, you have a pool of very healthy people, so of course you're going to have low rates. Now they'll have to pay an appropriate rate, which is how insurance works. Everyone pays in and the risk is spread out to those who end up needing it, usually the elderly and sick.

In other words, it's easy to make Obamacare look bad if you ignore all the benefits and only selectively look at what appears to be negative.

It's also naive to thing that you can change the health care system and that everyone will end up paying less. What kind of fantasy land are you living in? Some will have to pay more, but as a whole society will benefit... which means everyone and every business will benefit from having a healthier population and an economy that encourages people to be entrepreneurs rather than stay in a job they hate in order to keep their insurance.

Yea because the only ones that are ruining this country are the republicans... All of the politicians in this country care more about their paychecks than the country they "serve".

I feel like a major reason for this is the occupation itself. Our founding fathers were not politicians first they were businessmen and workers, representing the people was a public service.

But one of the problems is lack of good decent politicians now, Congress takes too many breaks argues in circles, and could care less about the American people.

Don't get me wrong Congress itself is not to blame it is the people in Congress, The representative branch is the most important branch of the government (not since FDR) and until we the american people change it nothing good will happen.

but the largest problem with America is not the politicians... IT IS THE AMERICAN PEOPLE!!! We are the ones who elect these idiots we are the ones who think the US is run by 2 parties, don't listen to purely the news who give 0 coverage to 3rd parties (because they lack money). Get online do research, pay attention to politics. Hell vote democrat or republican but be sure YOU support what they are saying.

I vote that I become the new Leader of America whose with me?!

*Crickets*

Anyone?

...

Anyone at all...

...

No the Chinese still own us.

As I'm not American can someone explain exactly what it means for the government to shut down, what happens now?

@thecheesestabber: What would be the first thing you would do if you were leader?

Probably Parade around The White House Naked

Democrats won't compromise on Obamacare

Americans said they didn't want Obamacare and they pushed it on us anyway.

That's not how America is supposed to work.

They sure are.

Many of the government workers considered to be non-essential will stop working. Several government run services like parks and government museums will shut down. Some things like the Federal Court will not shut down immediately but will run out of back up funding and shut down after a set amount of time.

The House budget called for a suspension of a year, just like the suspension given by the President to corporations. So no a suspense is not like getting rid of it. Repealing it is getting rid of it.

Build a campfire sing a couple of songs...

Not true. Obama ran on a platform of Obamacare, and he was elected by a solid majority. Stop blindly listening to the Republican propaganda and look at the facts. Even Republicans like John McCain admit that Obamacare is what Americans wanted and what they elected Obama to do.

The way America is supposed to work... seriously? Obamacare was passed and is the law of the land. You think that the way America is supposed to work is that the minority party can blackmail the Senate and the President, using the budget as a hostage, into getting whatever it wants? Look around, the government is mostly shut down now, and it's because the Republicans refused to accept the funding bill. The only way they'd pass it is if Obama caved in to their demands. That's called extortion.

Also:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/30/government-shutdown-poll_n_4016014.html?utm_hp_ref=politics

Most Americans would blame congressional Republicans rather than President Barack Obama for a shutdown, and many Americans view the GOP as acting like "spoiled children," according to a CNN/ORC International poll released Monday.

Forty-six percent of respondents would blame congressional Republicans, 36 percent would blame Obama and 13 percent would blame both. Sixty-nine percent said that the GOP is acting like "spoiled children" in the budget fight, while 58 percent think that of congressional Democrats and 49 percent think that of President Barack Obama. Six in 10 respondents reject the GOP's approach and think it is more important to avoid a shutdown than to make major changes to the Affordable Care Act.

What was that about terrorist groups? Are you saying that they exist, that they are an issue that needs to be taken into consideration, or was that stuck in there for filler?

@squares: ahem....filler.

BTW, someone asked me earlier what unethical things had the Republicans done. Here's a perfect example, this creepy ad by the Koch brothers which simply tries to scare people and misinform them about Obamacare. It gives the impression that the government will interfere in your healthcare and that you might have to submit to them either telling you what doctors to use or doctors that actually work for the government. "Dont let the government play doctor" it says, suggesting that the government might rape you. All of this is total BS.

It's so bad that even Fox News has an article talking about "Obamacare myths" in which one of the myths is:

Myth 4: I have to see a government doctor.

This is what happens when you put out lie after lie, and deception after deception. Eventually people have no idea what's true and what's false, which is pretty much the case with viewers of Fox News Channel. Just about every other thing on that channel is a lie... and it's hard to even watch without getting physically sick and having to change the channel.

lol What about Obamacare is a failure? Which rights do they want to take away?

(Watch, he doesn't know why he hates it, or which rights.)

This is now a top contender for dumbest thing I have ever seen.

I feel like I just watched a weird Robot Chicken skit

Agreed it's just like something Seth Green would come up with. If you vote for Obama Care, Uncle Sam will rape you!

They want to take away the second amendment.

And this is why Obamacare sucks:

Millions are and will lose the insurance Obama promised they could keep. Because ObamaCare forces employers to offer expensive Cadillac plans but also offers the option of paying a fine for not providing health insurance that can be cheaper than providing it, between seven and twenty million Americans are likely to lose their health insurance coverage according to the Congressional Budget Office. The original estimate was closer to four million. AND lots of people will lose their jobs.

(Watch, he will start to be all like "That's not true!" and come up with a lame excuse.)

Yes ObamaCare will also take your guns...because thats how healthcare works now?

Is it bad that this is my fantasy, :D?

LOL... yes it's bad. :-P

Nah, fantasize all you want.

Well if The NSA ever investigates me they better Read This Convo :D

That'll make them quiver if they ever hear the name CheeseStabber :D

How do you know they haven't ALREADY read this?!?

If they have they're probably quivring in fear from seeing all the awful things in my history :P

Campfire Song Song!

The people need to take their country back.

The founding fathers would have never dreamed of the country they started ending up like this.

As usual, Jon Stewart (not the Green Lantern) nails it:

He asked me "What rights do they want to take away." That has nothing to do with Obamacare.

This is a massive failing of leadership and compromise from both parties and all levels across the government. If they failed this miserably in the private sector, they'd long since been fired. If I fail this miserably, myself and others die. We, the people of the United States, have the ability to fire these people. They work for us. Now, it's just getting everyone to wake up, get angry, and take action. Sadly, I could be accused of treason for such words given my profession. It breaks my heart to see the country, and people, I happen to care for be led by two parties who have so long since lost their way. I wish I had answers, I wish we weren't in-fighting and dividing ourselves, but those in power prefer us bickering like children so a blind eye can be turned to what they are exploiting. I am not a conspiracy theorist, I do not think the government is "evil", but we have gone astray.

I'll get off my soapbox and go away now.

@thecheesestabber: We need a man in the white house who can do the risky business dance

Yes watch me Dance

No STOP DONT LOOK AT THE WHEEL BURROWS OF MONEY!!!!!!!

YES

Im a Dancing Queen Only 18 See That Girl Watch That seen!

KEEP WATCHING DAMMIT!

I agree that both parties have failed, but the reason why I lay more of it at the feet of the GOP is because they have become so dysfunctional and extreme, that they cant bring themselves to even grant the very basic of courtesy to the other side. They cant even admit that Obama is a legitimate President. Just that... they cant do it. Now imagine if they cant even do that, what hope is there for any compromise, respect, or cooperation in running the country? What would it matter if the Democrats gave in to every single thing they want, they will always want more, and they will always call Obama illegitimate, anti-American, and basically evil.

So, come talk to me when the GOP can even admit that Obama is a legitimate President... the very least thing they can do. Until then, I have zero respect for them.

I agree with you on every point. I was making a more general, overarching statement of the country in general right now. I absolutely agree this is squarely in the Republican's court. Sorry if my previous post came off ambiguous. I was not looking to "come talk to you when..." because I do not disagree. I am a moderate, an independent, neither Democrat nor Republican.

Oh, hey, no prob. Actually when I said "come talk to me" I meant the GOP, not you. I have no problem with anything you said. Sorry, that was my error in not being clear when I wrote that.

I'm a moderate too, and I prefer to look at both sides. Conservatives have good points, and so do liberals. I wish both sides had intelligent and trustworthy people representing them, which is why I'm so dismayed about the current state of the GOP. I cant respect them at all anymore, even though there are still some like Jon Huntsman who I like. But, for every Huntsman there are 10 Bachmanns, Palins, Perrys, Gingriches, etc.

BTW here's a Republican that simply cannot bring himself to say that Obama is a legitimate President... wow!

Seriously, watch this video through and tell me that this party isnt totally bonkers.

I agree with you, sir, I agree. But moderates are demonized by BOTH sides. Which is a shame, because I honestly believe most Americans are moderates, but they are a silent majority.

Nobody wants to take away your second amendment. What policy has he proposed that makes you think this? It's only the NRA that wants everyone to think that. All Obama has really proposed was universal background checks. If you really think those are bad, you either don't know what they are, or you are planning on robbing a bank in the future. Convicted felons in one state, as of now, can go buy a gun in another state. Or, they can just go to a gunshow. All Obama has proposed was fixing these clear issues. Nobody, not even the most liberal of Congressmen have proposed taking away guns. So you're wrong about THAT. lol On to the next one?

You clearly don't really understand how healthcare works, which is okay. It is pretty complicated, and a lot of people don't understand how it works. The Affordable Care Act, or "Obamacare" really only seeks to extend health insurance to MORE people. (Close to 50 million, I believe is the current number of those without insurance.) It limits insurance companies' abilities to pull unethical tactics as well. If you get health insurance through your employment, however, guess what? The Affordable Care Act might as well have been in Russia because you won't even notice a difference. The only people "losing insurance" are those that have cheap insurance that doesn't meet the standards of the ACA, which is good. Now they'll have better insurance, although they might have to pay more. So really all the act is going to do is provide healthcare to more Americans that need it. It's a solution to a problem, and Obama won the election. The American people clearly approved of the ACA. So that's how it all works.

I'm really just trying to inform you, because let me tell you, your OP really looks like a cliche. So there you go, take it for what you will.

they already dont do anything. its a shame how little they care about the people they govern. everyone of them should be ashamed.