So... the Republicans shut down the government!

Awesome, just awesome! It's been 17 years since the last time this happened, and again back then it was the Republicans at fault... and it cost them dearly.

If this lasts long enough, it could significantly hurt the economy... as much as 1.7% of GDP this quarter alone.

http://money.cnn.com/2013/09/23/news/economy/shutdown-economy/index.html

Remember this next time you go out to vote folks. The Republicans are willing to damage our economy and shut down the government for political gain and simple hatred of Obama and the new healthcare program.

I personally disagree with you sir. Democrats are ruining the country.

wow, just wow. Boy am I glad that I don't live in the U.S.

Let the debate begin!

I wonder what people in other countries must think of us and those running the government here. You would imagine that it would be impossible for one group to resort to extortion and actively damage our economy to try to get their way, but apparently it's not.

You are wrong.

Republicans in the House of Representative did pass a bill that included everything except obamacare.

Democrats want to shut down the government and destroy the USA.

The Democrats have their own faults. Nonetheless, they are not the ones trying to blackmail the other side, or resorting to tactics like lying and scaremongering. The Affordable Care Act (Obamacare) was a central platform in the Presidential election, was voted on, and passed. It's the law. Trying to subvert it through any means possible, including shutting down the government (which will hurt the entire country) is unthinkable and unethical. I have zero respect for these people. You're welcome to think what you want or disagree with me however. But, just FYI I'm not a Democrat. I'm just calling it as I see it. When the Dems do something like this then I'll criticize them for it.

Well, it's stuff like this that showcase the disconnect of american political views from the rest of the globe for sure.

Democrats are the ones who are ruining this country. Obamacare is a complete failure. Democrats want to take away our rights too.

This is absolutely ridiculous.

I must have forgot the clause during career day that stated as a elected government official you were allowed to stop governing the country if the opposite party in power isn't doing things you like.

Just goes to show you, its more important to win, than it is to work with the opposition and actually govern your country.

"Obamacare" is the law. It was passed, it was approved, it was declared Constitutional, and it's settled. It has nothing to do with passing a bill to further fund the government. All Congress had to do was pass such a bill, but the Republicans insisted on adding wording to try to defund this program. Government is not run like this. If it was it would be completely impossible to get anything done because every minority group would always be able to get whatever they want done by simply threatening to hold the whole government hostage.

The lack of outrage over this id disappointing.

@willpayton:

"It's the law"

That doesn't mean anything here.

The debt ceiling is the law and that keeps changing.

If you want to use the argument "it's the law" then you need to apply it each and every time. That hasn't been done for the debt ceiling and a host of over issues over the years.

Now the American people will not respect "it's the law" in this case.

Repeal obamacare now.

@hammertron:

Yes. Everyone must repeal Obamacare.

Unfortunately, as you can see, the way our government works is horribly broken. Minorities in Congress can actively block legislation and hold the budget hostage, even though this was not at all what our founding fathers wanted when they wrote the Constitution. Congress was supposed to pass legislation by a simple majority (>50%), but now we actually need a super-majority (>60%). We also have people whose only goal in Congress is to stop things from getting done. Just think about that for a second.

@willpayton: It probably wasn't a good choice to put Republican in the title. Recipe for a guaranteed flame war. But anyways.....

How the hell does this happen? Both parties are responsible. They all need to go to jail or something man. They basically held the nation hostage with both sides unwilling to compromise because of some stupid healthcare crap! Now we the people have to pay for their stupid selfishness and kindergarten behavior. I mean really how does this happen to America Brah ??!!!!!!!!?!

Here in America our political system is all about getting elected and staying in office as long as possible. It's why we have campaign seasons that last for nearly a year and have so much untraceable money being thrown around. Sadly, he Republicans still have a strong base of people who support shutting down the government, and not just temporarily. So for them this is like a win-win temper tantrum all at once. They can disable the government from doing anything actually useful, make it look like they're being treated unfairly and unreasonably, and then run for re-election on a platform which revolves around how the government never does anything. The whole thing is just so infuriating.

OMG IM GOING TO BEAT MY HEAD AGAINST THE WALL CAUSE THINGS ARE SO STUPID!!! I DON'T WANT TO TALK TO PEOPLE CAUSE PEOPLE ARE STUPID!! SO LISTEN TO ME BUT I DON"T WANT TO LISTEN TO YOU!!! AHH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH!!!!

how was that? personally id like to go for more of an Al Pacino outrage type moment.

"We have to pass it in order to see what's in it" - Nancy Pelosi, Democrat.

"It's not a tax." - obama, democrat.

"It's a Tax." John Roberts, US Supreme Court.

We should be grateful that the Republicans have enough backbone to stand up to the Democrats.

This is politics and government at work.

Politics is what comes before fighting.

The will of the people cannot be denied for long.

Changing the debt ceiling, like changing any other law, is done through proper channels. You dont seem to understand what you're talking about. If the Republicans want to change Obamacare, then they should do it like you would try to change any other law. What they are currently doing is called extortion. It's what happens when they know they dont have an actual chance to change the law, so they take any and all unethical action to try to screw Obama over in other ways... including outright lying. But it's not Obama that gets screwed, it's the entire nation. And, in those states where Republicans are in power, it's even more so those people that live there, since the those Republicans have elected to not accept major parts of Obamacare that would give money to poor people in those states.

So, sucks for you if you're poor and need health insurance in Texas, since the Republicans running the state screwed you over. And, now they screw over everyone else who works for the government and relies on that work and that paycheck to pay the rent, electrical bill, food, etc.

I'm starting my own country. New America. There will be freedom fries on caturday!

The founding fathers did not want the government to have as much power control as it currently has.

Remember that the founding fathers had just fought a revolutionary war against an oppressive government (England in the 1700s) because it had too much power over the people and imposed too many ridiculous taxes, like obamacare today.

Remember that TEA party means "Taxed Enough Already".

Repeal obamacare now.

Man I really didn't think they were dumb enough to shut down the government......

I'M IN.

@hammertron: Yeah, and remember when we tried to shift the burden of taxes just slightly towards the very richest in our country to give the middle class a break and how reasonable the Republicans were with that one, right? Plus you still didn't put a dent in his argument because the Supreme Court already voted on the issue. You've literally used up every single chance you had to block this and failed every time.

Democrats and Republicans are equally to blame because they're more interested in winning the pissing contest than they are with actually doing there jobs.

True. This is what happens... the Republicans try to stop everything Obama proposes, and then they claim that Obama did nothing. He got the new health insurance program passed, and now they try anything to make it fail, so they can then say how bad it was and how it failed.

Even before Obamacare was passed, they lied and cheated to try to torpedo it. Remember them claiming that Obamacare had "death panels" where the government would decide if your grandparents should be allowed to die by withholding care from them? Even now, they continue to call it a "bill", when in fact it's THE LAW. They continue to say how it has failed, when in fact most of Obamacare hasnt even started yet. They continue to say that Obamacare is "the biggest job killer in the country" when that's total BS.

How are the Republicans extorting anyone?

How are the Republicans being unethical?

How do you know that the Republicans are lying about anything?

How are the Republicans screwing anyone over?

How do you know that the Democrats are not screwing people over?

@willpayton: Oh the death panels, how I long for them now . . .

But seriously, they do this every single time. Try to put taxes on the rich to lessen those on the middle and lower classes? It's so unfair. But come election season it's all about how much democrats raise taxes on everyone. And with this they claim Obamacare is being forced on the American people after they've done literally everything they could to try to stop it and failed.

There should be some thin people can do about this.

Just be thankful your paycheck isn't on the line. As a federal employee, I'm under contract, meaning I have to work regardless if I'm being paid or not. While there are appropriations to ensure that the military still gets paid during the shutdown, the fact is I've seen this shutdown almost happen three times in the past two years. Maybe we will get paid but for how long and what happens when it pops up again? Theyve already suspended my education benefits pending budget approval which may not sound like much but that is a HUGE deal. I make around 35K a year to put my f***ing life on the line for months at a time in service of what I believe in. I fix the aircraft that enable high value target missions while under threat of mortar and god forbid ground attack, for months on end. They have taken away benefits before and reinstated them but AFAIK education is still pending. This constant attitude of doing more with less over the past 10 years is killing us and I for one don't see myself willing to go back into another term and face these situations just to have my pay threatened again and again by people sitting oh so comfortably on their ludicrous lifetime pensions for a single term. I have constantly told myself that I don't know all the facts, I'm not nearly as smart as our representive hopefully are, and that everything reasonably possible would always be done to ensure the welfare of the people. But there is only so many times I can be s**t on and so much I can be willing to sacrifice before I say it's too much. I would gladly give my life any day in service of our goals but this constant hemorrhaging barrage is too much to handle over such a period of time. If my only problems were worrying about my safety, about my security, or my duty in service to a clearly defined enemy/goal then no problem don't pay me, I can get the job done. But when I have a family, a mortgage, and a life to sustain you need to think carefully before start to arbitrarily decide to sacrifice more of my liberties to protect yours. Sigh ok maybe I had a little bit of too much righteous indignation there but this goes a lot deeper than obamacare and honestly if people realized half the BS we go through to make sure the "right" people can sit pretty in their office, I would pray that it sickens them too

The supreme court didn't vote on it.

They changed the law, which is not their job.

obamacare was not sold to the people as a tax, but the supreme court changed the law and said it was a tax.

@willpayton: @hammertron: Believing that either party has anything other than their own interests at heart is just naive, neither party gives a s**t about whats right for the country, they only care about keeping themselves in power and both parties have repeatedly proven that they are perfectly willing to destroy this country to suit their own greed.

The Supreme Court doesn't change laws, they vote on whether something is constitutionally legal. And they voted on this one and declared it was indeed so. Highest authority in the land, meant to deal with people who don't know when to stop squabbling. Deal with it son.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/29/us/supreme-court-lets-health-law-largely-stand.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

@mercy_: I'll bring the burgers and franks.

I disagree with this. What's happening now is part of a pattern. Remember that last time the debt ceiling issue came around, and the credit rating of the US eventually got lowered because of all the problems? What we're seeing time and again is the Republicans holding the country hostage unless they get their way. Even conservative publications were criticizing the Republicans back then and agreeing that it was mostly their fault, and not the Democrats.

And, BTW, Obamacare is based on a plan that was originally a conservative plan. This is not some "liberal" plan that the Republicans hate just because it's liberal. If the Democrats had gotten what they really wanted, we'd have a much better single-payer plan now. But instead we have this compromise plan. You'd imagine the Republicans would be happy with it, but since it was Obama that passed it then they try to destroy it, even though it was originally a conservative idea.

Did you actually read every page of obamacare?

How do you know there aren't "death panels"?

Is it possible that synonymous terms were used to describe the same situation that "death panels" describes?

How do you know this isn't a "job killer"?

Did you actually read every page of obamacare?

How was obamacare originally sold to the people?

Was obamacare originally stated to be a tax?

no

obamacare was not a tax.

Why did the supreme court say it was a tax?

Why did the supreme court change legislation?

They just did it right now. They threatened to not pass a bill to fund the government unless Obama gave in to their demands of defunding Obamacare. Obama was right to not negotiate with them, because negotiating with terrorists only encourages them to do it again.

Extortion is unethical. Outright lying is unethical.

I see them lie every time I see one on TV. They were lying when they claimed that Obamacare had "death panels". People like Marco Rubio, Rand Paul, and Ted Cruz lie ever time they call Obamacare a "bill", when in fact it's "the law". They know full well the difference between a bill and a law, so they are obviously lying.

Shutting down the government costs money, especially to those who have government jobs like my sister, and maybe even many on this forum. It also affects the stock market, the reputation and credit of the United States throughout the world, and many others.

I didnt say anything about the Democrats. They have their own issues. My problem at the moment is that the Republicans shut down the government for political gain, and this is part of a larger pattern of behavior that I have seen by them over the last decade.

Same here, man.

@hammertron: Because your guys scoured every page of it for anything they could use and they wish there was something as good as death panels. Seriously dude, have you read every act of legislation passed through congress? Why did you post that question twice, it didn't deserve to be asked once. How do I know this isn't a job killer? The idealistic Republican laissez faire economy would lead to jobs for everyone in America, but at the fine rate of 25 cents an hour for your 14 hour shifts. As that's not happening, your goal recently has been cling to the trickle down card, that mystical angel that everyone hears about but no one ever sees in reality. At this point, I'm gonna go ahead and assume you're just here to troll as you've done nothing but spout out irrelevant questions but done absolutely nothing to provide any sort of counter argument. Read up on the situation before you post back here.

@mercy_ said:

YAY!

You are hopeless. Continue to think whatever you want. And, BTW, asking the same thing twice does NOT make it more likely that I will answer it... especially when it's a completely inane question.

I'm seeing both parties as guilty here, and anyone so willing to jump on the other side for completely screwing things up really isn't helping. What caused this shutdown? People not being able to agree on something?

Why are you calling Republicans terrorists?

Do you know what a terrorist is?

Do you really believe that Republicans and Terrorists are the same?

Are you sure that the Democrats are not the ones who are really lying?

How do you know that the Democrats are not lying?

Both parties are flawed.

Shutting down the Government was dumb.

George Washington was right when he said the following:

“However [political parties] may now and then answer popular ends, they are likely in the course of time and things, to become potent engines, by which cunning, ambitious, and unprincipled men will be enabled to subvert the power of the people and to usurp for themselves the reins of government, destroying afterwards the very engines which have lifted them to unjust dominion.”

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2013/09/30/227941879/listen-the-shutdown-debate-in-two-house-speeches?utm_content=socialflow&utm_campaign=nprfacebook&utm_source=npr&utm_medium=facebook

Two speeches each under 5 min that sum up both sides of argument.