So, no more Christopher Columbus day. He was racist. Hello Indigenous Day.

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There were indigenous cultures that were peaceful. But the bolded part here is objectively wrong. There were tribes that captured, enslaved and killed men, women and children, the slavery part being particularly common among the Pacific Northwest coast. There were First Nations societies heavily based around slavery and warrior culture, similar to Sparta. The claim that conflicts between Indigenous Americans were somehow more nuanced then those involving colonial practices is again, wrong. Based on oral histories and historical evidence it tends to be apparent that most wars were fought over the exact same things that europeans fought wars over. People aren't that different. Again this is the "noble savage" stereotype shining through here

I never denied this, but the point regarding elders, women and children was that they usually held no responsibility nor engagements at all in war besides being vulnerable. I still believe it would help if more oral history and systems of writing were prevalent to further deepen our understanding of these conflicts, such as who was justified, who was responsible, when did they occur, for how long, what were the impacts, etc. in a similar manner that ancient wars were documented by ancient civilizations with writing systems.

I just prefer more specifications than having to rely entirely on broad statements, such as "Native Americans were already killing each other long before Europeans came," which I find oversimplifies/overgeneralizes the relationship between Native Americans and rude whenever they express anti-colonialism sentiments. It's so derailing and inconsiderate. It would be like this:

No Caption Provided

See, I would argue that that isn't technically true though. Without inter tribal conflict and funny enough, colonialism of their own (albeit on a much smaller scale), its thought that many tribes of Native peoples wouldn't exist. For example, the Mi'kmaq who live in Prince Edwards Island were thought to have migrated to PEI and either merged with or warred with (likely some of both) the people who were there currently until that culture was wiped out to the point where our best archeologists know next to nothing about them

If that weren't true, then why else would they primarily focus on anti-colonial sentiments today? I'm sure certain cultures vanished due to warfare between other ones. I don't recall this being a common phenomenon though. That would make sense too when you consider many of the cultures were on more fair terms of warfare and were used to dealing with each other; experience. However, colonialism did a drastically greater impact than inter-cultural warfare did. Notice how many endangered and extinct Native American cultures there are today. Notice how depopulated they are as well. There are far less Native Americans today, especially pure blood Native American even up to this day than there were in 1491: just a year before the arrival of Columbus.

Inter-cultural warfare usually presented short-term affects on Native Americans, whereas colonialism presented a long-term affect on Native Americans. Hell, colonialism still exists in many ways to Native Americans, which should be obvious when you consider they are still forced under a completely distinct nationality, race(s) and culture from theirs which descends from and remains very similar to the setters/colonizers. It should be obvious that they hardly recovered from colonialism.

Notice not a single pre-colonial Native American culture possesses their own independent nation with the exception of Greenland but even Greenland was and is still under the colonial influence of Denmark. Times haven't really changed much for many Native American cultures either. Mayans endured genocide like about only three decades ago, Native Americans in the Amazon are enduring a "slow" genocide while still toiling over their land rights, and so much more.

There are no known cases of inter-cultural Native American warfare in the modern era. Not to say there isn't any conflict between Native American cultures at all, but it's not a common issue among them today. In fact, there's definitely rising Pan-Amerindianism among them; the Dakota Access Pipeline protest is a perfect example.

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@static_shock:

So just to get this straight:

Nobody can tell you to ignore race for the argument because you are black.

The white guy can't possibly understand because he doesn't face racism.

Do you really want to try to claim that a certain race faces no racism?

To say that he does not face racism because he is white is racism in and of itself. There is plenty of racism against white people.

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#353  Edited By Static Shock

@misterwhisper said:

Do you really want to try to claim that a certain race faces no racism?

To say that he does not face racism because he is white is racism in and of itself. There is plenty of racism against white people.

Prove me wrong.

And, no. What I said is not racism, even if we go by y'all's favorite definition of the word outta the dictionary.

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#354  Edited By conner_wolf

@static_shock:

Pointing out the fact that you belong to a specific group based on skin color isn't a bad thing. Race is significant. It's a big deal. Acting like it's not or living in your own ignorance does change that, especially when minorities still get the short end of the stick within our society because of their skin color.

Any proof that most people don't care about skin color? Or are you speaking from your own, one-dimensional perspective about race? You're stating an opinion as a fact here.

There's no nitpicking of words here. You literally put words in my mouth earlier...

No, it really isn't. There's only one color that matters in the world in that color is green.

No Caption Provided

Dakka.

This is easy to say when you DON'T experience racism. This goes back to what I said about what you would do if you're Black. You're proving me right.

Oh yes, I don't experience racism when black people literally call me out for being white and constantly make it a big deal. I've never actually seen a white person go "You're black so your opinion is wrong"

Hey, what I said was real. Besides that, you should see a shrink or something.

Yeah... I really should... but, I lack the one color that matters, so unfortunately I can't. Cause me being white doesn't mean I get anything.

Also, if I was black for a day I'd go down to my college and apply for a black-only scholarship. Cause ya know, black privilege doesn't exist, white people get so much advantage

And my friend wants me to let you know that if he was black for a day he'd rob a bunch of banks, bury the money in the woods, and then make it to the end of 24 hours to get away scott-free.

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#355  Edited By Static Shock

How is telling you that you're White racism? Explain, please. How exactly does that hold you back or disadvantage you? What nerve does that touch? Does a Black person calling you White, when you are, come with hundreds of years of oppression, subjugation, and sub-human treatment too? No? Okay.

Racism only affects people of color. You're not a person of color. So, in what way (economically, socially, politically, etc) are you disadvantaged when you're not a person of color?

Yet, White folks excel at things like generational wealth (and historically, kept Black people from attaining that), own almost of the banks, major corporations, and land in this country. Hmmm...

@conner_wolf said:

Also, if I was black for a day I'd go down to my college and apply for a black-only scholarship. Cause ya know, black privilege doesn't exist.

LOL. Right, as if White people don't have numerous scholarships and grants to take advantage of... Please... There are Black-only scholarships for a reason, and a lot of it has to do with not having the same opportunities as White people.

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@misterwhisper said:

Do you really want to try to claim that a certain race faces no racism?

To say that he does not face racism because he is white is racism in and of itself. There is plenty of racism against white people.

Prove me wrong.

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Need I continue? I can literally do this all day. I have personally experienced anti-white racism in my personal life, in the middle of freaking nowhere, PEI Canada, where black/white race issues are literally non existent. The fact that you think it doesn't exist, especially in areas with massive racial tensions is clearly the result of being unfathomably jaded, biased or flat out bigoted yourself which I would like to hope not

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@static_shock:

How is telling you that you're White racism? Explain, please. How exactly does that hold you back or disadvantage you? What nerve does that touch? Does a Black person calling you White, when you are, come with hundreds of years of oppression, subjugation, and sub-human treatment too? No? Okay.

Racism only affects people of color. You're not a person of color. So, in what way (economically, socially, politically, etc) are you disadvantaged when you're not a person of color?

It's people going "No you're white so you're not allowed to have an opinion on this issue", which is a genetic fallacy and is actually racism. It's also just plain stupid and stupidity irritates me.

Ah yes, because the black people who enslaved other black people didn't exist.

Yet, White folks excel at things like generational wealth (and historically, kept Black people from attaining that), own almost of the banks, major corporations, and land in this country. Hmmm...

Yeah, white people able to do that before black people, it's called they had a head start. White people owning all of that does not suddenly help me. Those white people don't give two shits about me being a white person. That's not modern racism, that's called the people in power stay in power.

LOL. Right, as if White people don't have numerous scholarships and grants to take advantage of... Please... There are Black-only scholarships for a reason, and a lot of it has to do with not having the same opportunities as White people.

"White people earn other scholarships so black people need one given to them"

No scholarships are exclusively white. They are all equal opportunity. If a black person doesn't get them, it's because they didn't get them.

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#358  Edited By Static Shock

@decaf_wizard: Racism is the oppression of a marginalized group, based on skin color. White people aren't marginalized.

What you posted isn't racism. Is it prejudice? Yes. Is it hate? Yeah. Is he referring to genocide (which is pretty messed up, and I don't condone that shit)? Yeah. But, it ain't racism. Sorry.

@conner_wolf said:

It's people going "No you're white so you're not allowed to have an opinion on this issue", which is a genetic fallacy and is actually racism. It's also just plain stupid and stupidity irritates me.

If it's a issue that doesn't affect you based on your skin color, then they're right. Your opinion doesn't matter when you don't experience what we experience. Simple. That is not racism, and like the other guy, you don't know racism is. The proof of the pudding is in the eating. Think about it. The fact that it irritates you is a personal problem. Why do you want to be included so bad?

@conner_wolf said:

Ah yes, because the black people who enslaved other black people didn't exist.

This is the United States, not Africa prior to the Atlantic Slave Trade. Two different kinds of slavery, too. Try again.

@conner_wolf said:

Yeah, white people able to do that before black people, it's called they had a head start. White people owning all of that does not suddenly help me. Those white people don't give two shits about me being a white person. That's not modern racism, that's called the people in power stay in power.

Well, shit, dude.... What do you call that head start, and why do they have that? The fact that you're White puts you ahead of me. I have to work harder than you because I'm Black.

@conner_wolf said:

"White people earn other scholarships so black people need one given to them"

No, it's "White people benefit more from their scholarships than we do, so Black people create their own so we can have the opportunity to pay for college." Nothing is "given" to us. We still have to meet qualifications (apply, GPA, write essays, community/volunteer services, etc) to be eligible. We don't just have it handed to us because it's made by us. You're being disingenuous, man.

No scholarships are exclusively white. They are all equal opportunity. If a black person doesn't get them, it's because they didn't get them.

"Caucasian students receive more than three-quarters (76%) of all institutional merit-based scholarship and grant funding, even though they represent less than two-thirds (62%) of the student population. Caucasian students are 40% more likely to win private scholarships than minority students."

http://www.finaid.org/scholarships/20110902racescholarships.pdf

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@decaf_wizard: Racism is the oppression of a marginalized group, based on skin color. White people aren't marginalized.

What you posted isn't racism. Is it prejudice? Yes. Is it hate? Yeah. Is he referring to genocide (which is pretty messed up, and I don't condone that shit)? Yeah. But, it ain't racism. Sorry.

Ok, well if I go to the Oxford Living dictionary, a dictionary that is constantly upgraded according to modern meanings of the word.......

No Caption Provided

Prejudice against a race, on that basis is literally the definition of racism. You can't re-define words to fit your purposes.

But even if we use your description of racism:

http://www.news.com.au/finance/economy/world-economy/bury-them-alive-white-south-africans-fear-for-their-future-as-horrific-farm-attacks-escalate/news-story/3a63389a1b0066b6b0b77522c06d6476

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/670266/BBC-advert-white-people-ethnic-equality-staff-job-internship

Again, I could post examples like these for days

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@static_shock:

Racism is the oppression of a marginalized group, based on skin color. White people aren't marginalized.

So what you're saying is you don't know what racism is. Ok that explains so much.

rac·ismˈrāˌsizəm/noun

  1. prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.

Always happy to educate somebody.

If it's a issue that doesn't affect you based on your skin color, then they're right. Your opinion doesn't matter when you don't experience what we experience. Simple. That is not racism, and like the other guy, you don't know racism is. The proof of the pudding is in the eating. Think about it. The fact that it irritates you is a personal problem. Why do you want to be included so bad?

This is the United States, not Africa prior to the Atlantic Slave Trade. Two different kinds of slavery, too. Try again.

It's not my opinion, it's the facts. If you want to ignore data based on the fact I'm white then you're pulling a Genetic Fallacy. It's not about being included, it's the fact you're purposefully excluding someone over their race, which is racist.

Except, ya know, slavery still exists in Africa. And yeah, they are two different kinds of slavery, because American slavery doesn't exist anymore.

Well, shit, dude.... What do you call that head start, and why do they have that? The fact that you're White puts you ahead of me. I have to work harder than you because I'm Black.

Ha. Excuse me while I laugh. HA.

No, it's "White people benefit more from their scholarships than we do, so Black people create their own so we can have the opportunity to pay for college." Nothing is "given" to us. We still have to meet qualifications (apply, GPA, write essays, community/volunteer services, etc) to be eligible. We don't just have it handed to us because it's made by us. You're being disingenuous, man.

"Caucasian students receive more than three-quarters (76%) of all institutional merit-based scholarship and grant funding, even though they represent less than two-thirds (62%) of the student population. Caucasian students are 40% more likely to win private scholarships than minority students."

Have you ever considered it's because those students are just better and it's correlation not causation? Just because black people don't win as much doesn't mean there's racism going on. You are a student, if you do not get a scholarship, it is not automatically because your race is a factor.

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Ok, well if I go to the Oxford Living dictionary, a dictionary that is constantly upgraded according to modern meanings of the word.......

No Caption Provided

Prejudice against a race, on that basis is literally the definition of racism. You can't re-define words to fit your purposes.

But even if we use your description of racism:

http://www.news.com.au/finance/economy/world-economy/bury-them-alive-white-south-africans-fear-for-their-future-as-horrific-farm-attacks-escalate/news-story/3a63389a1b0066b6b0b77522c06d6476

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/670266/BBC-advert-white-people-ethnic-equality-staff-job-internship

Again, I could post examples like these for days

Of course, a definition created by White men, who don't experience racism.... LOL... Okay. First of all, that definition never works...

https://everydayfeminism.com/2015/03/dictionary-definition-racism/

Second, I'm talking about racism in the United States only. I'm pretty sure that Britain is still predominately White, so yeah.... Doesn't change what I'm saying, even if it is discriminatory (that term isn't always synonymous with race, and Whites in Britain aren't marginalized). It's still not racism. As for South Africa, I'm a little torn on that one. Apartheid wasn't abolished that long ago, but in spite of White people being the minority there, they still control the government and stuff....

Always happy to educate somebody.

No, you have it backwards. You don't what racism is because you don't experience it. Once again, the proof of the pudding... is in the eating... Speak from experience, not from what you read in a book.

You didn't educate me at all, either. That definition doesn't work because of WHO created the definition. Refer to the link I posted. Or don't. Makes no difference. You taught me nothing.

There's no White person that can tell me what racism is when he or she couldn't last a day in my shoes.

It's not my opinion, it's the facts. If you want to ignore data based on the fact I'm white then you're pulling a Genetic Fallacy. It's not about being included, it's the fact you're purposefully excluding someone over their race, which is racist.

What facts or data did you present, if at all? Yeah, you're being excluded from something that has nothing to do with you because you don't experience it, and the fact that you have a problem with it means that you want to be included. Ain't no racism about that. You're just mad. That's all.

Except, ya know, slavery still exists in Africa. And yeah, they are two different kinds of slavery, because American slavery doesn't exist anymore.

Yet, that slavery in Africa has nothing to do with race, and we're talking the United States here, where people were once enslaved because of race. So, please, try again.....

Ha. Excuse me while I laugh.

HA.

Being ignorant and insensitive is your right. So, it's fine.

Have you ever considered it's because those students are just better and it's correlation not causation? Just because black people don't win as much doesn't mean there's racism going on. You are a student, if you do not get a scholarship, it is not automatically because your race is a factor.

Then why do a lot of scholarship applications ask for race and/or ethnicity?

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@conner_wolf said:

@static_shock:

This is the United States, not Africa prior to the Atlantic Slave Trade. Two different kinds of slavery, too. Try again.

Except, ya know, slavery still exists in Africa. And yeah, they are two different kinds of slavery, because American slavery doesn't exist anymore.

Two kinds of slavery? That is literally meme tier. Slavery when Africans do it is exactly the same as Slavery when First Nations do it, Europeans do it, Arabs do it, Asians do it or South Americans do it. Slavery is a cruel and brutal practice and the only thing that ever changes is the scale of this cruelty. Occasionally some societies will let your kids out "easy", but many don't. And you know what, to even make the argument that Trans-Atlantic slave trade was the most brutal or the most relevant is arguably incorrect, although its certainly the most relevant to modern day politics

Slavery is almost NEVER historically based on skin colour, wasn't in the case of the Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade and rarely based solely or majorly on a pre-existing notion of racial superiority. Its based on who can be exploited the most cheaply and efficiently. The claim that racial discrimination somehow makes slavery worse is asinine. Slaves are property that can be bought and sold like cattle, and killed on a whim. Merely the status in certain cultures could make you legally less than human.

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@static_shock said:
@decaf_wizard said:

Ok, well if I go to the Oxford Living dictionary, a dictionary that is constantly upgraded according to modern meanings of the word.......

No Caption Provided

Prejudice against a race, on that basis is literally the definition of racism. You can't re-define words to fit your purposes.

But even if we use your description of racism:

http://www.news.com.au/finance/economy/world-economy/bury-them-alive-white-south-africans-fear-for-their-future-as-horrific-farm-attacks-escalate/news-story/3a63389a1b0066b6b0b77522c06d6476

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/670266/BBC-advert-white-people-ethnic-equality-staff-job-internship

Again, I could post examples like these for days

Of course, a definition created by White men, who don't experience racism.... LOL... Okay. First of all, that definition never works...

https://everydayfeminism.com/2015/03/dictionary-definition-racism/

Second, I'm talking about racism in the United States only. I'm pretty sure that Britain is still predominately White, so yeah.... Doesn't change what I'm saying, even if it is discriminatory (that term isn't always synonymous with race, and Whites in Britain aren't marginalized). It's still not racism. As for South Africa, I'm a little torn on that one. Apartheid wasn't abolished that long ago, but in spite of White people being the minority there, they still control the government and stuff....

Everyday feminism is a credible source now? Complete freaking lol, I would be instantly failed if I used that as a source for one of my anthropology papers. A random freaking BLOGGER was the source of that, which gives it no academic credibility whatsoever. Its a freaking opinion. And given they advocate for AAVE (ebonics) to be considered actual acceptable English instead of a dialect, its a pretty damn bad and biased opinion that is not shared by the majority of academia, even the majority black academics don't think ebonics should be classified as proper use English, instead classifying it as a dialect. Oh and by the way, that is the exact same definition my 2016 anthropology textbook uses. And my black anthropology Professor used

Find me one respected academic institution, even a mostly black academic institution that defines it as that. What I have is the consensus of the definition. I will cede the point

Actually lets get some definitions from coloured people then. Because too many people think their race are a monolith when it comes to issues. In fact if I took the time and was feeling particularly bored, its likely I could find dozens of black people on my uni campus, say it was for an anthropology project or something and get their opinions on this. Based on my interactions with black people on my campus, I don't think you would agree with a large percentage of them. So I mean, even amongst the people predominantly affected by racism, your supposed definition isn't a universally agreed upon one.

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Second, I'm talking about racism in the United States only. I'm pretty sure that Britain is still predominately White, so yeah.... Doesn't change what I'm saying, even if it is discriminatory (that term isn't always synonymous with race, and Whites in Britain aren't marginalized). It's still not racism. As for South Africa, I'm a little torn on that one. Apartheid wasn't abolished that long ago, but in spite of White people being the minority there, they still control the government and stuff....

Well I mean you kinda made it sound like anti-white racism exists nowhere. Even going off your definition of racism that is objectively incorrect

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@static_shock:

You don't what racism is because you don't experience it.

Circular Logic Fallacy.

You didn't educate me at all, either. That definition doesn't work because of WHO created the definition. Refer to the link I posted. Or don't. Makes no difference. You taught me nothing.

Genetic Fallacy.

There's no White person that can tell me what racism is when he or she couldn't last a day in my shoes.

Genetic Fallacy, again. Also, I'm fairly see I see a video of a black woman pointing out that black people can absolutely be racist, but I'm sure she's an Aunt Tia or a Coon or whatever you call her, which is a No True Scotsman Fallacy.

What facts or data did you present, if at all? Yeah, you're being excluded from something that has nothing to do with you because you don't experience it, and the fact that you have a problem with it means that you want to be included. Ain't no racism about that. You're just mad. That's all.

No, I just think you're being ignorant. By that logic if I release a scholarship for white people that has nothing to do with you so you can't have an issue with it. Oh I'm sorry, this is a white people issue, you blacks can go away now. Oh I'm sorry, that sounds racist? Well replace black with white and vice versa and it's the same thing, so it's ALSO RACIST. It affects me because you want society to change fundamentally to benefit you, which then affects me because I'M ONE OF THE IDIOTS WHO LIVES IN THIS SOCIETY and as screwed up as it is, we do not need you screwing it up more.

Yet, that slavery in Africa has nothing to do with race, and we're talking the United States here, where people were once enslaved because of race. So, please, try again.....

Except if white people could've enslaved other white people, they would, and did. White people were absolutely enslaved not only by the Ottoman Empire, but the Vikings, ya know, other white people. It is not about race, it is about easy labor.

That, and quite simply, SLAVERY IS SLAVERY. Claiming that their slavery is somehow not as bad because they aren't being oppressed over their skin color is so stupid. Slavery is over in America.

Being ignorant and insensitive is your right. So, it's fine.

And you're perfectly allowed to be fallacious and racist, so that's fine too.

Then why do a lot of scholarship applications ask for race and/or ethnicity?

Statistics. Why do your doctor's forms ask for race and/or ethnicity? Why do they ask for eye color? You're drawing conclusions that you cannot prove and providing circumstantial evidence at best. You are automatically assuming the worst.

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#365  Edited By blackspidey2099

@rahiem9123 said:

@sirfizzwhizz: Having a Columbus day doesn't help anyone or mean anything. So, considering that Columbus was a genocidal f-wad, I have absolutely no problem with the LA City council decided to devote this meaningless day to the people whose lands were taken rather than so psychopath.

Yeah, I agree with this comment. Columbus is no hero, and doesn't deserve a holiday in his honor.

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@conner_wolf said:

Yes, the Gauls were absorbed into the Roman Empire, but did not really become the 'French identity' straight from Gaulish culture, they were Romanized heavily, so much that it was basically Rome, but a little Gaulish. Yes, you are correct, a lot of ancient cultures no longer exist, but you don't hear people like myself-I am actually very Italian and my family lived in Italy for centuries-complaining that we don't celebrate Roman traditions because of those Germans.

The point is that the influence is still there. The original Gauls no longer exist of course.

Italy is still heavily influenced from their Roman roots. Hell that's where Rome and Romans themselves first originate. There are definitely Roman-based traditions and cultural aspects prevalent in Italy. Germanic warriors simply aided in the fall of the Roman Empire, but they definitely weren't the only ones responsible.

Even so, I don't believe it's entirely true that nobody at all is dissatisfied in Europe from issues caused by warfare and other conflicts between each other. There are so many Catalonians who desire their own independent nation. There are Neo-Pagan/Wicca movements that advocate for European religions and traditions prior to the introduction of Christianity from the Middle East. The identity of many original Germanic and Celtic cultures, such as Gauls are included in these movements if I'm not mistaken.

You don't see modern Italy still blaming Germany and all the German countries for the fall of Rome because it doesn't matter anymore. It is, quite literally, ancient history. In terms of the Native Americans, yeah their culture is disappearing and I respect that it may be important for some of them, but today, it is not the fault of the 'White Man', nor should you be spiteful towards America as a whole. Israel doesn't plot to nuke Germany, does it? No, because the modern day Germans did not have anything to do with it, and the politicians and warmongers who committed those atrocities are no longer around-or maybe they are and Hitler has a secret base in Argentina.

Believe me, I still see Northern Europeans and Southern Europeans get real salty with each other, well at least on some places on the internet: https://yuki.la/pol/83510903

To be fair, I'd argue the Roman Empire definitely deserved to fall when it was too powerful for its own good and led to the destruction and assimilation of many cultures. However, the Roman culture and identity didn't deserve to vanish either. Following the fall of their empire, they simply evolved into many of their own nations in southern Europe. In other words, their culture changed on their own terms, not through force by Germanic folks of which they were only influenced by to a limited extent.

To Native Americans, it's definitely not just ancient history; colonialism is still occurring to them. I prefer to not racialize, so I wouldn't say it's the fault of the "white man," but our discontent are expressed more directly at the US government and radical conservatives who greatly conflict with our cultures and work against us. I definitely think we have every right to be spiteful against the US. I don't fight for the colonizer, I fight for the native.

I imagine Native American culture probably would've either taken the route of Africa or it would've taken the route of Japan and China. I'm neutral on historical colonialism, I am against people being awful and terrible human beings, but as far as I'm concerned, history is history. If it happened 200+ years ago and you weren't alive to remember it, you shouldn't be offended over it.

If they were free from colonialism by successfully warding off invaders, they would remain quite unique even from Africa and East Asia I'd say.

It didn't just happen several centuries ago, it only began several centuries ago and is still occurring. It's not about being offended. It's about what I as a person of Native American heritage must, what do I believe, and what will I do now. I've already got that covered: https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/off-topic-5/children-from-the-sun-sneak-peek-1902753/

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@fitnesstribesman13:

The point is that the influence is still there. The original Gauls no longer exist of course.

Italy is still heavily influenced from their Roman roots. Hell that's where Rome and Romans themselves first originate. There are definitely Roman-based traditions and cultural aspects prevalent in Italy. Germanic warriors simply aided in the fall of the Roman Empire, but they definitely weren't the only ones responsible.

Even so, I don't believe it's entirely true that nobody at all is dissatisfied in Europe from issues caused by warfare and other conflicts between each other. There are so many Catalonians who desire their own independent nation. There are Neo-Pagan/Wicca movements that advocate for European religions and traditions prior to the introduction of Christianity from the Middle East. The identity of many original Germanic and Celtic cultures, such as Gauls are included in these movements if I'm not mistaken.

The influence of Gaul is, however, incredibly minimal and one could argue that the introduction of Maize made an even greater impact than the Gaulics did on the Romans.

And yeah, Italy is still heavily influenced by their Roman Roots, Rome was a massive empire that left a lot in its wake, Gaul on the other hand... wasn't, and today France is far more Roman than it is Gaulic to an almost laughable degree. As for the fall of Rome, absolutely, Rome's economy was collapsing, they had gotten too big comparatively to their leader's competence and became lazy in terms of military might, as well as overspending on trying to escape the efforts of Attila the Hun.

And to me the Neo-Pagan/Wicca movements sound just ridiculous to me. Why should everyone else change because you follow something?

Believe me, I still see Northern Europeans and Southern Europeans get real salty with each other, well at least on some places on the internet: https://yuki.la/pol/83510903

To be fair, I'd argue the Roman Empire definitely deserved to fall when it was too powerful for its own good and led to the destruction and assimilation of many cultures. However, the Roman culture and identity didn't deserve to vanish either. Following the fall of their empire, they simply evolved into many of their own nations in southern Europe. In other words, their culture changed on their own terms, not through force by Germanic folks of which they were only influenced by to a limited extent.

To Native Americans, it's definitely not just ancient history; colonialism is still occurring to them. I prefer to not racialize, so I wouldn't say it's the fault of the "white man," but our discontent are expressed more directly at the US government and radical conservatives who greatly conflict with our cultures and work against us. I definitely think we have every right to be spiteful against the US. I don't fight for the colonizer, I fight for the native.

I can explain that in three words. It's the internet.

I wouldn't define what's happening to them now as colonialism, I'd define it as the exact same shit that's happening to say, Flint with their clean water crisis, it's just the Government not caring who it steps on, which I am absolutely against. I am vehemently against things that are just blatantly wrong, but at the same time, I see no point in getting salty about the past I was never involved in and that the other side can't help. The current government however can absolutely be held responsible for its actions and we can do something about it.

If they were free from colonialism by successfully warding off invaders, they would remain quite unique even from Africa and East Asia I'd say.

It didn't just happen several centuries ago, it only began several centuries ago and is still occurring. It's not about being offended. It's about what I as a person of Native American heritage must, what do I believe, and what will I do now. I've already got that covered: https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/off-topic-5/children-from-the-sun-sneak-peek-1902753/

I mean not even East Asia was untouched by invaders and they were the most advanced of civilizations invaded by the European people with primitive firearms. While they would still remain unique in culture, I meant in the aspect of becoming incredibly modernized like East Asia or falling into the pit of warlords and chaos like Africa. It's impossible to say how things would've developed really.

Honestly, if you guys want your own nation go for it, that's no different from Israel, though I doubt that will happen.

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#368  Edited By Lunacyde  Moderator

@misterwhisper:

Your logic is that ignoring the problem will automatically make it better. That's pseudo-intellectual nonsense.

Let's say you're adopted and your adoptive parents favor their biological child over you. Every week they get twice as much allowance for doing the same amount of chores as you. For dinner they get seconds, but you don't, and you have to sleep in a closet while they have a huge room. Is pretending you aren't any different from their biological child going to solve your problems?

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@lunacyde:

No, it is completely logical.

If people stop letting race divide us all into little groups who hate each other and we just treated everyone like people, racism would disappear because race would make no difference to anything.

Remove all forms of race from every facet of society, no race box on forms, no adjustments of any kind based race, if everyone were just objective about things and looked at it from a logical standpoint and not a through the filter of race, then eventually race will cease to matter. It will not be a fast process, it could take multiple generations, but it would help in the long run.

Do not be a X Race, Y Job, Z Nationality person, just be a person.

The more labels and distinctions we put on things the more divided everything gets.

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#370 Lunacyde  Moderator

@misterwhisper: Race does exist and exert a concrete influence on people's experiences and lives, to pretend it doesn't is naive.

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@lunacyde:

It only has a concrete influence because we let it.

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#372  Edited By Lunacyde  Moderator

@misterwhisper: That is a GREAT ideal, but is completely impractical. What you're missing is that you cannot expect the victims of racism to pretend like race doesn't exist while they are being harmed by it. Your argument is built upon the faulty premise that we are post-racial or anything close to it which we are not, and ignores the entire history of this country and the reality of how the past influences the present.

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No Caption Provided

We should change change all American Holidays to

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@conner_wolf said:

And to me the Neo-Pagan/Wicca movements sound just ridiculous to me. Why should everyone else change because you follow something?

"Why should everyone else change because you follow something?" - I mean, what kind of movements and political parties don't do this? However, I think it's deeper than that. If I'm not mistaken, the Neo-Pagan/Wicca movements are primarily focused on Northern Europe where so many Germanic and Celtic identities and traditions were lost, especially Paganism. It can apply to Southern Europe as well when you consider that they originally had pagan roots only to be largely replaced by the introduction of Christianity, which is technically Middle Eastern. So I find the movements are to strengthen their true European roots and dissolve any major connection to the Middle East, with Christianity being a major one.

I can explain that in three words. It's the internet.

I wouldn't define what's happening to them now as colonialism, I'd define it as the exact same shit that's happening to say, Flint with their clean water crisis, it's just the Government not caring who it steps on, which I am absolutely against. I am vehemently against things that are just blatantly wrong, but at the same time, I see no point in getting salty about the past I was never involved in and that the other side can't help. The current government however can absolutely be held responsible for its actions and we can do something about it.

T'was a joke! Though I feel like there is some legitimate hostility between some of them to a certain extent.

I definitely call it colonialism. So let me elaborate...

Colonialism still exists in many ways to Native Americans, which should be obvious when you consider they are still forced under a completely distinct nationality, race(s) and culture from theirs which descends from and remains very similar to the setters/colonizers; the US is a settler/colonist nation that is very much like a colony of foreign influence to Native Americans.

Notice not a single pre-columbian Native American culture possesses their own independent nation with the exception of Greenland but even Greenland was and is still under the colonial influence of Denmark. Times haven't really changed much for many Native American cultures either. Mayans endured a massive genocide like about only three decades ago, Native Americans in the Brazilian amazon are enduring a "slow" genocide while still toiling over their land rights, the US government has broken hundreds of Native American treaties and court cases that are still in effect, "historical trauma" is common among Native Americans, Native American boarding schools still exist, the impacts of original European colonialism are still in effect, and so much more. So, now it's time to undo the impact and presence of colonialism.

I mean not even East Asia was untouched by invaders and they were the most advanced of civilizations invaded by the European people with primitive firearms. While they would still remain unique in culture, I meant in the aspect of becoming incredibly modernized like East Asia or falling into the pit of warlords and chaos like Africa. It's impossible to say how things would've developed really.

Honestly, if you guys want your own nation go for it, that's no different from Israel, though I doubt that will happen.

I have no issued with modernizing just so you can be up to date with technology and advancements. Now one of the major features that held East Asia back was their relative isolation and xenophobia, even if it involved trading which held them back from being up to date if I'm not mistaken. Not to mention this was the main reason why European nations force themselves into East Asia in the first place. If the Americas didn't take this route but engaged in heavy global trading, I believe their relationship with Europe would become positive over time and wouldn't have to deal with them attempting to force their way into their nations and influencing them more than they should.

Oh I'm not discouraged at all. I definitely hold ideas I find unpredictable and effective, but I'm not alone either.

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#375  Edited By Static Shock

@decaf_wizard said:

Find me one respected academic institution, even a mostly black academic institution that defines it as that. What I have is the consensus of the definition. I will cede the point.

From Professor Marc Lamont Hill... Has a Ph.D from the University of Pennsylvania. He went to Morehouse, an HBCU. Black people can't be racist.

Loading Video...

Michael Eric Dyson. Has a Ph.D from Princeton. He went to Carson-Newman, an HBCU. Again, Black people can't be racist.

Loading Video...

So, what college or what credentials do the Black people in your videos have? I'm curious. Not that it matters. They are just misguided like you and other guy; y'all don't understand what racism is. It's really that simple. You can keep quoting a dictionary if you want, though. LOL.

Yeah, maybe on YOUR college campus. I know plenty of Black people in and out college that agree with my definition. So, don't even try to compare your environment to mine.

@decaf_wizard said:

Well I mean you kinda made it sound like....

Nah, I kinda didn't make it sound like that, at all. You jumped to that conclusion. I'm talking about racism in the United States, not anywhere else. Is it possible for White people, if a minority group, to face racism in an African country where the economy, political system, etc were controlled by the Black Africans (the majority rule) living there? Yes, of course. But, I live in the United States, where racism affects people like me, the minority. Why would I be talking about anywhere else? I'm more worried about what's going on here, because I live here.

@conner_wolf said:

Genetic Fallacy, again. Also, I'm fairly see I see a video of a black woman pointing out that black people can absolutely be racist, but I'm sure she's an Aunt Tia or a Coon or whatever you call her, which is a No True Scotsman Fallacy.

Please, I don't call my people that. Is she conditioned, though? Yeah. Misguided? Of course.

A Black person saying that Black people can be racist doesn't mean that it's true. Nice try, though. You throwing around the word "fallacy" doesn't deter me, either. LOL.

@conner_wolf said:

No, I just think you're being ignorant.

Because you're excluded from social issues that don't affect you based on your skin color, I'm ignorant? LOL. I don't know shit about being White. I don't know shit about what y'all go through, and I couldn't care less. My opinion wouldn't matter... But, a Black person tells you that you don't know shit about being Black and that your opinion doesn't mean anything, and you get offended. That's the difference between you and I. I don't care to be included while you do, and badly, too.

Calling me racist because you're excluded from matters that affect us and not you doesn't even fit the definition of racism that you're defending. Saying you're excluded from our issues and that your opinion on them doesn't matter, doesn't mean that I think I'm superior to you or better than you because you're White. It doesn't mean that I have biases towards your own physical characteristics, abilities, or qualities based on your skin color. That shit doesn't even make sense. It only means that your experience isn't the same as mine, because you are not marginalized. That's it. Once again, the proof of the pudding is in the eating.

For example, what the hell would I look like telling a soldier what it's like to be soldier, when I'm not a soldier and have never fought in battle before? What would I look like telling a physicist with years of experience in the double digits what it's like to be a physicist, when I don't have a clue. It's the same shit, bruh. That's why defending that specific definition doesn't work. That reverse racism shit DOES NOT WORK. Period.

Two of Merriam-Webster's definitions on racism are closer to the one I provided.

No Caption Provided

Historically, there were a lot of political programs (G.I. Bill is one), laws (Jim Crow), and the like that were based on or founded upon racism in this country. Even though they are not in effect now, White people have reaped the benefits of all of this. You said slavery in America is over, but the present is always reflection of the past. It had a significant on our society and the way Black people are treated today. Anyone who says otherwise is living in denial.

Change society, how? In what way? I'm telling the truth about our society, I'm not trying to change it. I'm pointing out the way society treats my people and how it has been treating my people in this country for hundreds of years. The only thing that I want to change is for my people to thrive, economically. I want my people to have more opportunities from their hard work, and to do so, we've gotta do better for ourselves and not wait for someone else to help us. How exactly does that affect you when you're the default? I'm not asking for handouts, or whatever the hell you think I'm asking for. That's all.

@conner_wolf said:

Except if white people could've enslaved other white people, they would, and did. White people were absolutely enslaved not only by the Ottoman Empire, but the Vikings, ya know, other white people. It is not about race, it is about easy labor.

What does any of this have to do with what I'm saying?

@conner_wolf said:

Statistics. Why do your doctor's forms ask for race and/or ethnicity? Why do they ask for eye color?

LOL @ statistics....

Doctor's forms ask for race and/or ethnicity because there are ailments, diseases, and medical conditions that have a greater effect on or are more abundant with one specific group of people than another. Hypertension and diabetes affects mostly Black people, while cystic fibrosis and Parkinson's disease affects mostly White people...

Come on, dude. This isn't even comparable to what I'm saying.

@conner_wolf said:

That, and quite simply, SLAVERY IS SLAVERY. Claiming that their slavery is somehow not as bad because they aren't being oppressed over their skin color is so stupid. Slavery is over in America.

LMAO. Who the hell said that that slavery isn't as bad if isn't race involved? You're putting words in my mouth again. Damn, learn to read.

Saying that "slavery is slavery" means that you're ignoring that slavery in America was about race. We're talking about racism and you're straying away from the topic with slavery that had nothing to do with racism.

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Meh, as long as i get a day off i don't care.

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#377  Edited By conner_wolf

@static_shock: Ok, counter-argument, I don't care what credentials someone has if they're wrong. You can have a Master's in Women's Studies, if you claim there's a gender wage gap I'm going to laugh in your face because every statistic claims otherwise. If someone with a masters in medicine claims vaccines cause autism, I will laugh in their face. And I will proceed to laugh in both your face, and the faces of these idiots in the videos you posted.

EDIT: Last year there was a young white man who was kidnapped and tortured by four black teenagers for as long as 48 hours and as short as 24 hours. They streamed this on Facebook and in the recording can be heard spouting out hateful things about the white race, holding a knife to his throat and demanding he curse Trump, and forcing him to drink from a toilet just because he's white. If these people are not racist for specifically picking out a white man to torture him for being white, then what are they? Please, give me your view on situations like this where a white person is an exclusive victim and people are afraid to let him actually be a victim under the pretense that they will be called out for it and attacked for it.

Please, I don't call my people that. Is she conditioned, though? Yeah. Misguided? Of course.

A Black person saying that Black people can be racist doesn't mean that it's true. Nice try, though. You throwing around the word "fallacy" doesn't deter me, either. LOL.

So what you're saying is you don't care if you use bad logic, you're going to keep thinking you're right. You do realize what a fallacy is, right? A fallacy literally means you are using an argument that, at its core, does not mean anything.

Change society, how? In what way? I'm telling the truth about our society, I'm not trying to change it. I'm pointing out the way society treats my people and how it has been treating my people in this country for hundreds of years. The only thing that I want to change is for my people to thrive, economically. I want my people to have more opportunities from their hard work, and to do so, we've gotta do better for ourselves and not wait for someone else to help us. How exactly does that affect you when you're the default? I'm not asking for handouts, or whatever the hell you think I'm asking for. That's all.

Because you want hiring practices, scholarships, etc... to benefit solely the black community and possibly other minorities, you want to give them advantages and yes, you want handouts. You want them to be given things without ever having to work for them (see: black only scholarships) because you don't like being outshined by the white man. You can't accept the possibility that if a workplace is all white people that maybe that's just because the black people who applied didn't have the credentials to get in.

And I am not the default any more or less than you are. You've just convinced yourself to think that because of a feeling of entitlement that hasn't been satisfied.

LOL @ statistics....

Doctor's forms ask for race and/or ethnicity because there are ailments, diseases, and medical conditions that have a greater effect on or are more abundant with one specific group of people than another. Hypertension and diabetes affects mostly Black people, while cystic fibrosis and Parkinson's disease affects mostly White people...

Come on, dude. This isn't even comparable to what I'm saying.

You do realize the government requires that employers report the race/gender of the people who apply so they can identify if there is systematic discrimination, right? Oh and guess what, they don't find a whole lot.

LMAO. Who the hell said that that slavery isn't as bad if isn't race involved? You're putting words in my mouth again. Damn, learn to read.

Saying that "slavery is slavery" means that you're ignoring that slavery in America was about race. We're talking about racism and you're straying away from the topic with slavery that had nothing to do with racism.

Do you not read what you write? You literally just tried to make slavery in America seem worse because race was involved.

And no, slavery in America had zero to do with race, that was the purpose of bringing up the fact Vikings took white slaves. Slavery itself was a matter of cheap labor and that is all it was. Nobody said "Ok let's specifically enslave the black people". You know why we had black slaves? Because the Africans were selling for cheap.

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@static_shock said:

That, and quite simply, SLAVERY IS SLAVERY. Claiming that their slavery is somehow not as bad because they aren't being oppressed over their skin color is so stupid. Slavery is over in America.

Saying that "slavery is slavery" means that you're ignoring that slavery in America was about race. We're talking about racism and you're straying away from the topic with slavery that had nothing to do with racism.

Slavery in America was unquestionably not about race. The fact that you think it is, quite frankly shows a poor understanding of history. Racist attitudes towards those who are enslaved often come after the fact to justify it. Slavery in the Americas was about supply and demand, and where slaves could be gotten cheaply.

So, what college or what credentials do the Black people in your videos have? I'm curious. Not that it matters. They are just misguided like you and other guy; y'all don't understand what racism is. It's really that simple. You can keep quoting a dictionary if you want, though. LOL.

The fact that you are being this dismissive shows a massive amount of a feeling of superiority. Those people in the videos who had a different opinion as to you and to claim they are somehow misguided is frankly treating them as children who can't decide for themselves what they want to believe. The point was not to appeal to authority either, the point was to show that black people living in minority conditions are not a monolith of beliefs.

I will repeat this. In nice small words so you can understand it. A few people who hold a specific opinion does not equal an academic consensus. There are PhD's that believe that climate change doesn't exist, for example. Both of us could find dozens of people that believe each of our examples, and you know this. However far as I know, there are no respected academic organizations who define the definition of racism as this, and simply because a five minute read through of three sociology textbooks and two diversity and gender studies textbooks in the UPEI library will give me the same or similar definition I just told to you. What you are speaking of is usually defined as institutional racism

Yeah, maybe on YOUR college campus. I know plenty of Black people in and out college that agree with my definition. So, don't even try to compare your environment to mine.

You seem incredibly jaded in regard to this issue, which makes me think you are beyond the point of objective reasoning. So lemmie provide some statistics here, in regards to my campus

  • Prince Edwards Island is 97.4% white.
  • Black people are 0.5% of the population
  • Prince Edwards Island has a history of slavery that predates large scale slavery in the US. Also a history of racial segregation laws
  • Black students are massively overrepresented in the UPEI student population
  • There is almost no representation of black people in what is considered PEI culture

So I mean, I know little about what your situation is like, but I also know black people who agree with mine. Thing is, I have a consensus to back it up

Also, another point. Anti-White racism, even by your definition is possible in the United States because white isn't an ethnicity or even a race

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@fitnesstribesman13:

"Why should everyone else change because you follow something?" - I mean, what kind of movements and political parties don't do this? However, I think it's deeper than that. If I'm not mistaken, the Neo-Pagan/Wicca movements are primarily focused on Northern Europe where so many Germanic and Celtic identities and traditions were lost, especially Paganism. It can apply to Southern Europe as well when you consider that they originally had pagan roots only to be largely replaced by the introduction of Christianity, which is technically Middle Eastern. So I find the movements are to strengthen their true European roots and dissolve any major connection to the Middle East, with Christianity being a major one.

Well before the left became so extreme, political parties used to sway people to their side with words of logic and definitely some emotion, but these days it's all emotion, accusing people of being racist bigot nazis and the like if they disagree and it used to be that political parties both wanted freedom of speech regardless of what you said, now a lot of groups-not sure if the ones we're discussing now do this-want to simply silence the other side. I'm a Centrist and I've been called Nazi numerous times for statements like "I believe in due process no matter what the criminal case is"

And those identities as they were may have been lost, but new ones were founded in their place, it's not like they had no identity at all, the people just prefer the older identity. They are allowed to do that and even preach to those willing to listen, but if say, somebody took up the worship of any Norse god and decided that he should honor the god of warfare and battle with some wanton slaughter of his foes if they did not convert that would be wrong. Or if say, the Catholics went on another crusade...

T'was a joke! Though I feel like there is some legitimate hostility between some of them to a certain extent.

Again, it's the internet I can't tell. I gotcha now tho.

I definitely call it colonialism. So let me elaborate...

Colonialism still exists in many ways to Native Americans, which should be obvious when you consider they are still forced under a completely distinct nationality, race(s) and culture from theirs which descends from and remains very similar to the setters/colonizers; the US is a settler/colonist nation that is very much like a colony of foreign influence to Native Americans.

Notice not a single pre-columbian Native American culture possesses their own independent nation with the exception of Greenland but even Greenland was and is still under the colonial influence of Denmark. Times haven't really changed much for many Native American cultures either. Mayans endured a massive genocide like about only three decades ago, Native Americans in the Brazilian amazon are enduring a "slow" genocide while still toiling over their land rights, the US government has broken hundreds of Native American treaties and court cases that are still in effect, "historical trauma" is common among Native Americans, Native American boarding schools still exist, the impacts of original European colonialism are still in effect, and so much more. So, now it's time to undo the impact and presence of colonialism.

Firstly, I believe you mean the Aztecs, the Mayans disappeared hundreds of years before Cortez arrived and slaughtered the natives. Though I mean, the Aztecs were into blood sacrifice, so maybe that one was a good call.

Secondly, I don't believe nationalities need a distinctive nation to call their own. So long as everyone is treated equally (which, arguably, they are, they're treated like shit just as much as everyone else) I see no issue. I see no reason to partition land so everyone can feel like they're surrounded by people just like them. If I moved to Asia for example I'd feel perfectly comfortable so long as people didn't run away in fear. I feel like identity is important,

I have no issued with modernizing just so you can be up to date with technology and advancements. Now one of the major features that held East Asia back was their relative isolation and xenophobia, even if it involved trading which held them back from being up to date if I'm not mistaken. Not to mention this was the main reason why European nations force themselves into East Asia in the first place. If the Americas didn't take this route but engaged in heavy global trading, I believe their relationship with Europe would become positive over time and wouldn't have to deal with them attempting to force their way into their nations and influencing them more than they should.

Oh I'm not discouraged at all. I definitely hold ideas I find unpredictable and effective, but I'm not alone either.

I wouldn't entirely agree with that, I'd say their relationships would be much more positive if Europe just let their culture bleed into the orient instead of doing things like turning most of China into opium addicts. Then considering the willingness of the Native Americans to trade, they may have advanced quickly, however they were also keen on holding onto tradition so it's impossible to really say exactly how they may have been influenced, but that's a historical "What if?" argument for another time.

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@static_shock said:

That, and quite simply, SLAVERY IS SLAVERY. Claiming that their slavery is somehow not as bad because they aren't being oppressed over their skin color is so stupid. Slavery is over in America.

Saying that "slavery is slavery" means that you're ignoring that slavery in America was about race. We're talking about racism and you're straying away from the topic with slavery that had nothing to do with racism.

Slavery in America was unquestionably not about race. The fact that you think it is, quite frankly shows a poor understanding of history. Racist attitudes towards those who are enslaved often come after the fact to justify it. Slavery in the Americas was about supply and demand, and where slaves could be gotten cheaply.

So, what college or what credentials do the Black people in your videos have? I'm curious. Not that it matters. They are just misguided like you and other guy; y'all don't understand what racism is. It's really that simple. You can keep quoting a dictionary if you want, though. LOL.

The fact that you are being this dismissive shows a massive amount of a feeling of superiority. Those people in the videos who had a different opinion as to you and to claim they are somehow misguided is frankly treating them as children who can't decide for themselves what they want to believe. The point was not to appeal to authority either, the point was to show that black people living in minority conditions are not a monolith of beliefs.

I will repeat this. In nice small words so you can understand it. A few people who hold a specific opinion does not equal an academic consensus. There are PhD's that believe that climate change doesn't exist, for example. Both of us could find dozens of people that believe each of our examples, and you know this. However far as I know, there are no respected academic organizations who define the definition of racism as this, and simply because a five minute read through of three sociology textbooks and two diversity and gender studies textbooks in the UPEI library will give me the same or similar definition I just told to you. What you are speaking of is usually defined as institutional racism

Yeah, maybe on YOUR college campus. I know plenty of Black people in and out college that agree with my definition. So, don't even try to compare your environment to mine.

You seem incredibly jaded in regard to this issue, which makes me think you are beyond the point of objective reasoning. So lemmie provide some statistics here, in regards to my campus

  • Prince Edwards Island is 97.4% white.
  • Black people are 0.5% of the population
  • Prince Edwards Island has a history of slavery that predates large scale slavery in the US. Also a history of racial segregation laws
  • Black students are massively overrepresented in the UPEI student population
  • There is almost no representation of black people in what is considered PEI culture

So I mean, I know little about what your situation is like, but I also know black people who agree with mine. Thing is, I have a consensus to back it up

Also, another point. Anti-White racism, even by your definition is possible in the United States because white isn't an ethnicity or even a race

What kind of alternative fake-history is this shit?

1. How did American slavery have nothing to do with race when Europeans already had proto-racist views about the world prior to the Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade? Slavery in America was economic, political, and social phenomenon, so trying to relegate it to economics misses key elements of the evil and demonic treatment that black people have suffered at the hands of white people. You had white people committing infanticide, mass rapes, cannibalism, torture, murder, medical experimentation, and etc. against black people which had nothing to do with supply and demand economics.

2. http://www.academia.edu/2635839/Racism_as_white_Supremacy

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  • Correct if i,m wrong or not.. But didn't Christopher Columbus discover America for most of 14th century Europe and open it up for European Colonzaiaiton? Thus putting fourth the events in motion that would lead to the creation of America as we know it today?
  • If so...Then i see no reason why he shouldnt have a day celebrated in his honor...And i get that he was a jerk who committed a bunch of atrocities against the Natives, but he was a product of his time..
  • I mean either way i dont care as long as we the day off..lol...
  • But i do find this over sensitivity stuff a bit much at times...I mean its getting ridiculous at this point almost absurdist.
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  • Correct if i,m wrong or not.. But didn't Christopher Columbus discover America for most of 14th century Europe and open it up for European Colonzaiaiton? Thus putting fourth the events in motion that would lead to the creation of America as we know it today?
  • If so...Then i see no reason why he shouldnt have a day celebrated in his honor...And i get that he was a jerk who committed a bunch of atrocities against the Natives, but he was a product of his time..
  • I mean either way i dont care as long as we the day off..lol...
  • But i do find this over sensitivity stuff a bit much at times...I mean its getting ridiculous at this point almost absurdist.

European Colonization was a god awful thing, America isn't the pinnacle of human achievement just look at the pervasive inequality between whites and non-whites in this society and the long history of anti-indigenous and black violence in this country that manifested in chattel slavery, Jim Crow, and our current paradigm of socio-economic and political marginalization. Who knows what kinds of civilizations and societies would have arose if white people's genocidal and exploitative rage had never taken place.

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@static_shock: Ok, counter-argument, I don't care what credentials someone has if they're wrong.

Well, the other guy posted videos of a bunch of unknowns to reinforce his point...

EDIT: Last year there was a young white man who was kidnapped and tortured by four black teenagers for as long as 48 hours and as short as 24 hours. They streamed this on Facebook and in the recording can be heard spouting out hateful things about the white race, holding a knife to his throat and demanding he curse Trump, and forcing him to drink from a toilet just because he's white. If these people are not racist for specifically picking out a white man to torture him for being white, then what are they? Please, give me your view on situations like this where a white person is an exclusive victim and people are afraid to let him actually be a victim under the pretense that they will be called out for it and attacked for it.

It's a hate crime. Prejudice. Those four black teenagers were wrong.

Because you want hiring practices, scholarships, etc... to benefit solely the black community and possibly other minorities, you want to give them advantages and yes, you want handouts. You want them to be given things without ever having to work for them (see: black only scholarships) because you don't like being outshined by the white man. You can't accept the possibility that if a workplace is all white people that maybe that's just because the black people who applied didn't have the credentials to get in.

And I am not the default any more or less than you are. You've just convinced yourself to think that because of a feeling of entitlement that hasn't been satisfied.

So, black people establishing their own businesses, buying from their own businesses, putting money back into their own communities, amenities, public schools and neighborhoods so they'll thrive, establishing their own banks, etc, etc.... is asking for a handout? LOL. I don't know, bruh. We've gotten this far, and I'm almost convinced that you don't understand English. Anyway, other races do the same shit. There are but a few predominately-Black high income neighborhoods that are perfect example of what I'm saying, in the Los Angeles area. Are they in the wrong? Tell me. How does this affect you again? I wanna know. Just in case you were having trouble understanding, I'll post it again....

The only thing that I want to change is for my people to thrive, economically. I want my people to have more opportunities from their hard work, and to do so, we've gotta do better for ourselves and not wait for someone else to help us.

If I say "do better for ourselves and not wait for someone to help us," that would imply that I'm not asking for a handout or for White people to give me something because they owe me something. So, once again, learn to read. Tell me again how this affects you.

There are already hiring practices in place. Affirmative action, even though that shit doesn't work all the time. I've already addressed black-only scholarships. Black students aren't given those just because they are Black; they still have to work for them and meet qualifications to get them. No Black-only scholarship is going to give money to a Black student who isn't doing well in school. Maybe you missed that part. But, here, I'll post an example of these qualifications for you.

From the United Negro College Fund STEM Scholars Program... It's a handout, right? Doesn't require hard work, right?
From the United Negro College Fund STEM Scholars Program... It's a handout, right? Doesn't require hard work, right?

Entitled to what, exactly? Everything I have, I worked hard for. I'm not ask anyone to help me with anything. So, again. Entitled to what?

You do realize the government requires that employers report the race/gender of the people who apply so they can identify if there is systematic discrimination, right? Oh and guess what, they don't find a whole lot.

Just because it's difficult to prove that it's happening, doesn't mean that it's not happening. But, okay..... LOL.

Studies show that people with Black or Latino, ethnic-sounding names on their resumes or job applications are 50% less likely to get a call back from an employer.

Do you not read what you write? You literally just tried to make slavery in America seem worse because race was involved.

Do you? I didn't try to do anything of the sort. We're talking about racism, and you're changing the subject with slavery that had nothing to do with racism.

And no, slavery in America had zero to do with race.

Then why were Black people considered 3/5ths of a human back then? Why were the called n****rs!? Why were they treated like they were subhuman?

William Thompson, the creator of the Confederate Flag, stated:

No Caption Provided

Alexander Stephens, the Vice President of the Confederate States of America, stated:

No Caption Provided

No one is arguing against cheap labor or whatever. The fact the is, race was significant when it came to slavery. Period. Even the people who defended the slavery is a normal thing made it about race.

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@conner_wolf said:

@static_shock: Ok, counter-argument, I don't care what credentials someone has if they're wrong.

Well, the other guy posted videos of a bunch of unknowns to reinforce his point...

@conner_wolf said:

EDIT: Last year there was a young white man who was kidnapped and tortured by four black teenagers for as long as 48 hours and as short as 24 hours. They streamed this on Facebook and in the recording can be heard spouting out hateful things about the white race, holding a knife to his throat and demanding he curse Trump, and forcing him to drink from a toilet just because he's white. If these people are not racist for specifically picking out a white man to torture him for being white, then what are they? Please, give me your view on situations like this where a white person is an exclusive victim and people are afraid to let him actually be a victim under the pretense that they will be called out for it and attacked for it.

It's a hate crime. Prejudice. Those four black teenagers were wrong.

@conner_wolf said:

Because you want hiring practices, scholarships, etc... to benefit solely the black community and possibly other minorities, you want to give them advantages and yes, you want handouts. You want them to be given things without ever having to work for them (see: black only scholarships) because you don't like being outshined by the white man. You can't accept the possibility that if a workplace is all white people that maybe that's just because the black people who applied didn't have the credentials to get in.

And I am not the default any more or less than you are. You've just convinced yourself to think that because of a feeling of entitlement that hasn't been satisfied.

So, black people establishing their own businesses, buying from their own businesses, putting money back into their own communities, amenities, public schools and neighborhoods so they'll thrive, establishing their own banks, etc, etc.... is asking for a handout? LOL. I don't know, bruh. We've gotten this far, and I'm almost convinced that you don't understand English. Anyway, other races do the same shit. There are but a few predominately-Black high income neighborhoods that are perfect example of what I'm saying, in the Los Angeles area. Are they in the wrong? Tell me. How does this affect you again? I wanna know. Just in case you were having trouble understanding, I'll post it again....

The only thing that I want to change is for my people to thrive, economically. I want my people to have more opportunities from their hard work, and to do so, we've gotta do better for ourselves and not wait for someone else to help us.

If I say "do better for ourselves and not wait for someone to help us," that would imply that I'm not asking for a handout or for White people to give me something because they owe me something. So, once again, learn to read. Tell me again how this affects you.

There are already hiring practices in place. Affirmative action, even though that shit doesn't work all the time. I've already addressed black-only scholarships. Black students aren't given those just because they are Black; they still have to work for them and meet qualifications to get them. No Black-only scholarship is going to give money to a Black student who isn't doing well in school. Maybe you missed that part. But, here, I'll post an example of these qualifications for you.

From the United Negro College Fund STEM Scholars Program... It's a handout, right? Doesn't require hard work, right?
From the United Negro College Fund STEM Scholars Program... It's a handout, right? Doesn't require hard work, right?

Entitled to what, exactly? Everything I have, I worked hard for. I'm not ask anyone to help me with anything. So, again. Entitled to what?

@conner_wolf said:

You do realize the government requires that employers report the race/gender of the people who apply so they can identify if there is systematic discrimination, right? Oh and guess what, they don't find a whole lot.

Just because it's difficult to prove that it's happening, doesn't mean that it's not happening. But, okay..... LOL.

Studies show that people with Black or Latino, ethnic-sounding names on their resumes or job applications are 50% less likely to get a call back from an employer.

@conner_wolf said:

Do you not read what you write? You literally just tried to make slavery in America seem worse because race was involved.

Do you? I didn't try to do anything of the sort. We're talking about racism, and you're changing the subject with slavery that had nothing to do with racism.

@conner_wolf said:

And no, slavery in America had zero to do with race.

Then why were Black people considered 3/5ths of a human back then? Why were the called n****rs!? Why were they treated like they were subhuman?

William Thompson, the creator of the Confederate Flag, stated:

No Caption Provided

Alexander Stephens, the Vice President of the Confederate States of America, stated:

No Caption Provided

No one is arguing against cheap labor or whatever. The fact the is, race was significant when it came to slavery. Period. Even the people who defended the slavery is a normal thing made it about race.

You know he is a troll right?

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#385  Edited By Static Shock

@decaf_wizard said:

Slavery in America was unquestionably not about race. The fact that you think it is, quite frankly shows a poor understanding of history.

Then why did the Confederacy believe that Black people were inferior to White people, and only useful as slaves? They made it about race. Refer to my post above. I'm not addressing this again.

@decaf_wizard said:

The fact that you are being this dismissive shows a massive amount of a feeling of superiority. Those people in the videos who had a different opinion as to you and to claim they are somehow misguided is frankly treating them as children who can't decide for themselves what they want to believe. The point was not to appeal to authority either, the point was to show that black people living in minority conditions are not a monolith of beliefs.

Nah, no feelings of superiority here. All I'm saying is that they don't know what they're talking about. They can believe what they want, I don't have to agree with them.

@decaf_wizard said:

What you are speaking of is usually defined as institutional racism

It's all the same to me, really.

@decaf_wizard said:

You seem incredibly jaded in regard to this issue, which makes me think you are beyond the point of objective reasoning. So lemmie provide some statistics here, in regards to my campus

  • Prince Edwards Island is 97.4% white.
  • Black people are 0.5% of the population
  • Prince Edwards Island has a history of slavery that predates large scale slavery in the US. Also a history of racial segregation laws
  • Black students are massively overrepresented in the UPEI student population
  • There is almost no representation of black people in what is considered PEI culture

So I mean, I know little about what your situation is like, but I also know black people who agree with mine. Thing is, I have a consensus to back it up

I have the consensus to back up what I'm saying, too. A little bit about where I live...

  • Atlanta, GA is 55.4% White and 32.4% Black.
  • I specifically live in Douglasville, GA, which is well within the Metro Atlanta area. It's predominately Black, at 55.9%, even though the KKK thrives here.
  • There's a history of slavery here, too. Joseph Summerlin, who lived in the Salt Springs area (now called the Lithia Springs community in my town) owned several hundred acres of land and over three dozen slaves.
  • Half of our elected government officials in Douglas County, for the very first time, are Black. So, we do have some representation here.

So.................................................................. yeah.

@decaf_wizard said:

Also, another point. Anti-White racism, even by your definition is possible in the United States because white isn't an ethnicity or even a race

Well, going by this, If White isn't a race, then how is racism against White people even a thing?

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@nick_hero22: Man, over half of these lame ass dudes on the Vine are trolls... LOL.

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#387  Edited By nick_hero22
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@static_shock said:

@nick_hero22: Man, over half of these lame ass dudes on the Vine are trolls... LOL.

Glad we agree lol

Screw the both of you, I'm not a troll, I just think Static's obnoxiously ignorant.

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Well, the other guy posted videos of a bunch of unknowns to reinforce his point...

Your point? I don't care where the information comes from so long as it makes sense.

It's a hate crime. Prejudice. Those four black teenagers were wrong.

So these people were racist.

So, black people establishing their own businesses, buying from their own businesses, putting money back into their own communities, amenities, public schools and neighborhoods so they'll thrive, establishing their own banks, etc, etc.... is asking for a handout? LOL. I don't know, bruh. We've gotten this far, and I'm almost convinced that you don't understand English. Anyway, other races do the same shit. There are but a few predominately-Black high income neighborhoods that are perfect example of what I'm saying, in the Los Angeles area. Are they in the wrong? Tell me. How does this affect you again? I wanna know. Just in case you were having trouble understanding, I'll post it again....

Strawman, never said any of that. I am pointing to things like affirmative action and programs specifically for aiding black people instead of aiding everyone who needs it. It also affects me because believe it or not, in capitalism, there are losers. If you choose to work with a business because it's owned by a black man and not because of business practices, product quality, product cost, etc... you are racist and withholding money from a man who may have more rightfully earned your business than someone who just happens to share a skin tone.

I don't understand why this is so hard to comprehend.

If I say "do better for ourselves and not wait for someone to help us," that would imply that I'm not asking for a handout or for White people to give me something because they owe me something. So, once again, learn to read. Tell me again how this affects you.

See above. There's also the fact you literally, below, bring up affirmative action which could very easily take a job away from me or another white person because a school needs to fill their black quota.

There are already hiring practices in place. Affirmative action, even though that shit doesn't work all the time. I've already addressed black-only scholarships. Black students aren't given those just because they are Black; they still have to work for them and meet qualifications to get them. No Black-only scholarship is going to give money to a Black student who isn't doing well in school. Maybe you missed that part. But, here, I'll post an example of these qualifications for you.

Something something something black quota.

Yes, but white people, hispanics, asians, etc... are still excluded from theses scholarships. That is racial discrimination, how dense are you? This is why people like you try to bend and twist the definition of racism, because it helps fit your own warped sense of reality that specifically having a scholarship for black people isn't racist. You can say whatever you want about these scholarships, you are WRONG. They discriminate based on race and are therefore racist. Period.

Entitled to what, exactly? Everything I have, I worked hard for. I'm not ask anyone to help me with anything. So, again. Entitled to what?

Something something something affirmative action something something something black scholarships something something something....

Just because it's difficult to prove that it's happening, doesn't mean that it's not happening. But, okay..... LOL.

Studies show that people with Black or Latino, ethnic-sounding names on their resumes or job applications are 50% less likely to get a call back from an employer.

I didn't say difficult to prove, I said that if there was explicit racism going on, then it is ILLEGAL.

'Studies show' blah blah blah, and exactly what biases do these studies have? Do they even account for two resumes having different levels of skills? Different backgrounds? Different education? You need more evidence than "Studies say!"

And once more, do they even account for the population difference?

Do you? I didn't try to do anything of the sort. We're talking about racism, and you're changing the subject with slavery that had nothing to do with racism.

You brought up subjugation before I did, I was pointing out that black people were not the only people who were enslaved.

Then why were Black people considered 3/5ths of a human back then? Why were the called n****rs!? Why were they treated like they were subhuman?

No one is arguing against cheap labor or whatever. The fact the is, race was significant when it came to slavery. Period. Even the people who defended the slavery is a normal thing made it about race.

No, it wasn't. You are ignorant and refuse to address the facts of the matter. Slavery came first, discrimination second. It became about race because that was a common factor. Everyone grew up with the slaves being black people, so association came into play. Why do you refuse to accept things like this? It feels so simple and logical yet you just scream that because there's a connection that your view is correct without ever looking at the specifics of the situation.

Also the word 'n****er' came before it was ever a racial slur. It comes from the Spanish and Portuguese word negro which means black and it was applied to black people because, oh look, they're black! It was not a racial slur until people began to use it in a derogatory way. The same way slow, retard, and other phrases have become insults. They were originally medical terms and now are just thrown around by people who want to insult others.

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#391  Edited By Static Shock
@conner_wolf said:

Your point? I don't care where the information comes from so long as it makes sense.

What I provided makes sense. If you disagree, that's okay.

@conner_wolf said:

So these people were racist.

That's not what I said, but okay.

@conner_wolf said:

Strawman, never said any of that. I am pointing to things like affirmative action and programs specifically for aiding black people instead of aiding everyone who needs it. It also affects me because believe it or not, in capitalism, there are losers. If you choose to work with a business because it's owned by a black man and not because of business practices, product quality, product cost, etc... you are racist and withholding money from a man who may have more rightfully earned your business than someone who just happens to share a skin tone.

I don't understand why this is so hard to comprehend.

Strawman? Nah, bruh. I was clarifying what I was talking about, because it seemed like you didn't understand. You tried to tell me what I want, when you had me all wrong in the first place....

So, going by the definition of racism that you provided, giving my money to a black-owned business simply because he or she is Black (and I would like for my money to continue to circulate within my community) means that I'm superior to White people? Because I choose to spend my money within the business that belongs to someone who looks me means that I think that I'm better than White folks? Is that what that is? LOL. This shit is hilarious. Even then, the black-owned businesses that I do support (clothes, hair products, barbershops, restaurants, for the most part) have good business practices, have good products, and the product cost is reasonable. So, I believe I'm superior to White people because I'm buying Black, and the end goal is for the Black community to thrive like everybody else....? Eh...... You make it seem like I'm taking something away from someone else....

Dude, I still buy things from businesses that aren't owned by Black people. I still shop at Wal-Mart. The Waltons own that shit. LOL. The apartment that I live in is owned by a company, run by people who don't look like me. I bought my car from a used car dealership owned by an Arabic man. I shop at Gamestop. Target. Foot Locker. Express. Forever 21. H&M. Ironically enough, most of these businesses and more tend to have issues with customer service, don't always sell good products, and have unreasonable prices, even though everyone still gives them their money, anyway. Regardless, I have to right to support my people, too. Why is that so wrong?

How do you think predominately-White, well-to-do communities in the suburbs are thriving? How do think public schools in White neighborhoods do so well? How do think housing and property in White neighborhoods cost the way they do? It starts with the way people spend their money. But, I'm wrong because I want the same thing for my community? My neighborhood, and low-income neighborhoods in Atlanta? So, I'm not allowed to buy lunch from Mr. Everything on MLK Drive or Golden Krust in my town? I'm only allowed to buy lunch at Wendy's? LOL. To you, I'm racist, because I wanna buy Black. Yet there are significant portions Atlanta that were once historically Black but are now gentrified and populated by White people.

@conner_wolf said:

See above. There's also the fact you literally, below, bring up affirmative action which could very easily take a job away from me or another white person because a school needs to fill their black quota.

Dude, whatever. White folks still get their jobs, while the unemployment rate from Black people is still at an all-time low. Affirmative action doesn't deter that. I'm not going to address this again. Most of the people I work with are White.

I didn't say difficult to prove, I said that if there was explicit racism going on, then it is ILLEGAL.

'Studies show' blah blah blah, and exactly what biases do these studies have? Do they even account for two resumes having different levels of skills? Different backgrounds? Different education? You need more evidence than "Studies say!"

And once more, do they even account for the population difference?

That's kinda the point. It is illegal, it's happening, but difficult to prove in a court of law which is why you think it doesn't happen often. Two years ago, Fastenal had to settle a hiring discrimination case and pay $1.25 million and offer 171 jobs to people in Atlanta and Indianapolis. You can Google this. I was one of the applicants at the Fastenal location on Fulton-Industrial Blvd here in Atlanta years ago, and I was offered a job and given $67 compensation. I took the money but not the job. I don't even have to lie about this. If I still had the paperwork, I'd show you.

Yes, these studies do account for different backgrounds, education, and skills. Why wouldn't they? The bias remains even if two applicants, one with an ethnic-sounding name and likely Black or Latino, have the same skills and comparable education.

http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2015/mar/15/jalen-ross/black-name-resume-50-percent-less-likely-get-respo/

Even then, there was still discrimination or bias from employers that claimed to be equal-opportunity employers....

Check out Jose Zamora, had how employers called him back after he dropped the S in his first name. Prior to that, no one was calling him back....

Population difference is of no consequence...

@conner_wolf said:

Something something something black quota.

Yes, but white people, hispanics, asians, etc... are still excluded from theses scholarships. That is racial discrimination, how dense are you?

Right, ignore the fact that our scholarships, like everybody else's, have eligibility requirements. LMFAO @ "something, something, black quota."

Whites, Hispanics and Asians have their own scholarships too! Do I care? No. Hispanics and Asians don't have a problem with Blacks doing it. Only y'all. LOL.

Learn to read before you call me dense.

@conner_wolf said:

You brought up subjugation before I did, I was pointing out that black people were not the only people who were enslaved.

That subjugation I brought up was about race, though. I didn't stray from the topic here.....

@conner_wolf said:

No, it wasn't.

Well, then we've reached an impasse....

Anyway, the historical origins of racism, by George Fredrickson.

Why were Africans
Why were Africans "heathens?" This wasn't a "decided-upon" thing after Africans were enslaved. It was always about race, but they used religion to justify enslaving people with darker skin simply because they had darker skin.

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woooo this thread man...

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Screw the both of you, I'm not a troll, I just think Static's obnoxiously ignorant.

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What I provided makes sense. If you disagree, that's okay.

It really doesn't. You are changing the definition of racism to fit what you perceive to be racism and to avoid being labeled racist.

That's not what I said, but okay.

You said they were discriminatory based on race, therefore, racist.

Strawman? Nah, bruh. I was clarifying what I was talking about, because it seemed like you didn't understand. You tried to tell me what I want, when you had me all wrong in the first place....

So, going by the definition of racism that you provided, giving my money to a black-owned business simply because he or she is Black (and I would like for my money to continue to circulate within my community) means that I'm superior to White people? Because I choose to spend my money within the business that belongs to someone who looks me means that I think that I'm better than White folks? Is that what that is? LOL. This shit is hilarious. Even then, the black-owned businesses that I do support (clothes, hair products, food services, for the most part) have good business practices, have good products, and the product cost is reasonable. So, I believe I'm superior to White people because I'm buying Black, and the end goal is for the Black community to thrive like everybody else....? Eh...... You make it seem like I'm taking something away from someone else....

Dude, I still buy things from businesses that aren't owned by Black people. I still shop at Wal-Mart. The Waltons own that shit. LOL. The apartment that I live in is owned by a company, run by people who don't look like me. I bought my car from a used car dealership owned by an Arabic man. I shop at Gamestop. Target. Foot Locker. Express. Forever 21. H&M. But, I have to right to support my people, too. Why is that so wrong?

Yes, because you choose to side specifically with black people that makes you racist. How is that hilarious? If I chose not to do business with black people that would be called racist every day of the week. That is a double standard. It does not matter if they themselves are also a good business, your final deciding factor is based on race, that makes you racist.

Do you not understand what capitalism is? Do you not know how money works? Are you honestly that ignorant to MONEY?! Let me state this very plainly: By spending money at one business, you are depriving another business that may be more deserving of that money, and in turn, taking something away they rightfully earned. You have such an immense double standard, you're accusing white people who hire other white people of being racist, but if you're black and you decide to specifically do business with black people, that's not racist? That is such an immense double standard, how is it possible to have such a double standard and refuse to believe it exists?

It is wrong to support your own people above all others because the moment you create an Us vs Them mentality, you are engaging in racist practices. You are putting your race above another in whom you support. That is racist. That is wrong.

Dude, whatever. White folks still get their jobs, while the unemployment rate from Black people is still at an all-time low. Affirmative action doesn't deter that. I'm not going to address this again. Most of the people I work with are White.

Piss off, "white people still get their jobs". If a white man doesn't get a job because you need to fill the 'diversity quota' how is that not discriminatory? Just because most of the people you work with are white does not change what I am saying, that is a non-sequitur.

That's kinda the point. It is illegal, it's happening, but difficult to prove in a court of law which is why you think it doesn't happen often. Two years ago, Fastenal had to settle a hiring discrimination case and pay $1.25 million and offer 171 jobs to people in Atlanta and Indianapolis. You can Google this. I was one of the applicants at the Fastenal location on Fulton-Industrial Blvd here in Atlanta years ago, and I was offered a job and given $67 compensation. I took the money but not the job. I don't even have to lie about this. If I still had the paperwork, I'd show you.

Yes, these studies do account for different backgrounds, education, and skills. The bias remains even if two applicants, one with an ethnic-sounding name and likely Black or Latino, have the same skills and comparable education.

http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2015/mar/15/jalen-ross/black-name-resume-50-percent-less-likely-get-respo/

Check out Jose Zamora, had how employers called him back after he dropped the S in his first name. Prior to that, no one was calling him back....

Population difference is of no consequence...

I'd say it's a huge consequence if you live in an area that's 90% white and expect black people to have 50% of the jobs.

I'm already gonna call into question the 'We find little evidence that our results are driven by employers inferring something other than race, such as social class, from the names'. If I see 'Reginald Bartholomew III' and then I see "Billy Sarwaller" I'm going to definitely see these two names differently.

@conner_wolf said:

Screw the both of you, I'm not a troll, I just think Static's obnoxiously ignorant.

Then there's the fact that if someone applied with the name "Matthew" and then the name "Mathieu", two variations of the same white name but from very different locations, there will still be discrimination. Most people react positively to things they are familiar with. That is not racism, that is a result of cultural difference that permeate regardless of location.

Right, ignore the fact that our scholarships, like everybody else's, have eligibility requirements. LMFAO @ "something, something, black quota."

Whites, Hispanics and Asians have their own scholarships too! Do I care? No. Hispanics and Asians don't have a problem with Blacks doing it. Only y'all. LOL.

Learn to read before you call me dense.

You are still dense.

I don't think there should be ANY scholarships based on race. It does not matter if you still need to be eligible, it is still racist. You are making excuses. Imagine if I had a scholarship and said "Yeah only white people can apply, but they still need to be eligible" that's still racist. Do you not hear yourself?

That subjugation I brought up was about race, though. I didn't stray from the topic here.....

Yes, and 'subjugation' typically refers to slavery.

Anyway, the historical origins of racism, by George Fredrickson.

Ok, so because people used religion as an excuse to keep their slaves, suddenly that means they hated them for their race to start with? Like I stated prior, that's an excuse or a 'justification', not an original reason.

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Static Shock

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It really doesn't. You are changing the definition of racism to fit what you perceive to be racism and to avoid being labeled racist.

Whatever helps you sleep at night.

You said they were discriminatory based on race, therefore, racist.

No, it said it was prejudice. A hate crime. I didn't say it was racist. You did.

Yes, because you choose to side specifically with black people that makes you racist. How is that hilarious?

Image result for laughing gif

It is wrong to support your own people above all others because the moment you create an Us vs Them mentality, you are engaging in racist practices. You are putting your race above another in whom you support. That is racist.That is wrong.

following happy gif laugh gif jay z gif jay-z gif GIF

Piss off.

You first.

I'd say it's a huge consequence if you live in an area that's 90% white and expect black people to have 50% of the jobs.

I'm already gonna call into question the 'We find little evidence that our results are driven by employers inferring something other than race, such as social class, from the names'. If I see 'Reginald Bartholomew III' and then I see "Billy Sarwaller" I'm going to definitely see these two names differently.

Image result for what the fuck gif

Then there's the fact that if someone applied with the name "Matthew" and then the name "Mathieu", two variations of the same white name but from very different locations, there will still be discrimination. Most people react positively to things they are familiar with. That is not racism, that is a result of cultural difference that permeate regardless of location.

Image result for what the fuck gif

You are still dense.

I don't think there should be ANY scholarships based on race.

Says the guy who thought I was talking about discrimination and injustice in the beginning, when I was really just talking about representation. You've displayed lackluster reading comprehension this entire discussion. So, please speak for yourself.

But go ahead and make a scholarship for everyone, then.

Ok, so because people used religion as an excuse to keep their slaves, suddenly that means they hated them for their race to start with? Like I stated prior, that's an excuse or a 'justification', not an original reason.

No, you have it backwards. See what I mean about your reading comprehension?

"The official rationale for enslaving Africans was that they were heathens..."

Africans were already viewed as heathens (again, why?) before being enslaved, then they used religion as an excuse to enslave them.

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@conner_wolf said:

They are allowed to do that and even preach to those willing to listen, but if say, somebody took up the worship of any Norse god and decided that he should honor the god of warfare and battle with some wanton slaughter of his foes if they did not convert that would be wrong. Or if say, the Catholics went on another crusade...

Then that would be extremism, which isn't what the Neo-Pagan/Wicca movements are promoting last time I checked.

Again, it's the internet I can't tell. I gotcha now tho.

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Firstly, I believe you mean the Aztecs, the Mayans disappeared hundreds of years before Cortez arrived and slaughtered the natives. Though I mean, the Aztecs were into blood sacrifice, so maybe that one was a good call.

Nope, I mean the Mayans:

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Yes, they still exist. They endured a genocide a few decades ago: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guatemalan_genocide

I definitely wouldn't say the Meshika (Aztecs) deserved total annihilation of their people and culture. I agree that the imperial system and human sacrifice should be dismantled in their society, but the emperors and priests were the ones really responsible for the imperial system and sacrifice in the first place, not the commoner nor even warriors. Keep in mind that human sacrifice was actually seen as an honor, a great blessing since you'd be guaranteed to the heavens in the afterlife without having to journey through the underworld, a hellish realm according to the Meshika "religion."

Secondly, I don't believe nationalities need a distinctive nation to call their own. So long as everyone is treated equally (which, arguably, they are, they're treated like shit just as much as everyone else) I see no issue. I see no reason to partition land so everyone can feel like they're surrounded by people just like them. If I moved to Asia for example I'd feel perfectly comfortable so long as people didn't run away in fear. I feel like identity is important,

Many folks wouldn't agree. Cultural and historical differences play a HUGE factor in the formation of a distinct nation.

Say a completely distinct culture, such as the ones in Asia, came into the US and did to United Statesmen (so-called "Americans") exactly what happened to Native Americans . I don't think any Statesmen would enjoy that kind of status of being a completely distinct cultural, racial and historical background from the ones in Asia to not feel they must acquire a distinctive nation of their own.

It's really quite a shame that an entire race of native people that exist on two massive continents don't possess a single truly independent nation, unlike all other races with the exception of Australian Aborigines as far as I know.

I highly disagree that Native Americans are treated equally and as bad as everyone else (or at least have issues more specific to them), but I decided that I'll discuss that another time in the future. It'll be a surprise, but let's just say I'll tag you sometime in the future...

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@static_shock: God you're a tool

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You cannot talk about representation without talking about discrimination. You are honestly just brainwashed to believe whatever your righteous indignation demands. You keep acting like you're not talking about something when you don't realize that one subject leads into another.

Also, they were heathens because they weren't Christians... but you'd know that if you saw anything besides skin color.

But then again, how can I expect a racist to have any sense of logic?

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#398  Edited By conner_wolf

I expect a lot of movements like them to be extremists these days.

I have never seen the people in Guatemala referred to as Mayans.

Many folks wouldn't agree. Cultural and historical differences play a HUGE factor in the formation of a distinct nation.

Say a completely distinct culture, such as the ones in Asia, came into the US and did to United Statesmen (so-called "Americans") exactly what happened to Native Americans . I don't think any Statesmen would enjoy that kind of status of being a completely distinct cultural, racial and historical background from the ones in Asia to not feel they must acquire a distinctive nation of their own.

It's really quite a shame that an entire race of native people that exist on two massive continents don't possess a single truly independent nation, unlike all other races with the exception of Australian Aborigines as far as I know.

I highly disagree that Native Americans are treated equally and as bad as everyone else (or at least have issues more specific to them), but I decided that I'll discuss that another time in the future. It'll be a surprise, but let's just say I'll tag you sometime in the future...

I'm sure many folks wouldn't agree, but then again I don't have a whole lot of national identity and I don't view it as that important.

If that had happened two hundred years ago and I wasn't forced to follow the customs of the new people, and could follow my own customs, I wouldn't care. I might be biased cause I like Asian culture, but ya know.

I'm gonna be honest, if the natives of the Americas founded their own nation there would be plenty of cultural issues between those individual tribes.

Honestly I'm not into the whole victim olypmics.

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#399  Edited By juiceboks  Moderator

@conner_wolf: I think what you're not seeing is how much of an impact race has in Western Society. You don't subscribe to identity based on nationality or racial background, but that doesn't make it stupid for others to because ultimately various facets of the lives of minorities are affected by such factors in some way. Contrary to what you may believe, the U.S is still largely segregated geographically and oftentimes mentally. Wanting people to cease defining things by race because in your opinion it would fix a lot of issues isn't at all realistic. Things like Black-only scholarships, banking Black, and television programs catered towards Black people by Black people aren't racist because inclusiveness isn't a universally accepted concept, it never has been and it probably never will be. People tend to look out for the people that belong to their racial/cultural groups, especially when those groups have been historically discriminated against by the majority. Every racial/ethnic group that's ever been considered a minority has done this, and it's simply to better themselves and improve their respective social and economic standings. There's nothing racist about it, and it has nothing to do with a victim mentality.

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@conner_wolf said:

I expect a lot of movements like them to be extremists these days.

I have never seen the people in Guatemala referred to as Mayans.

Nah, they seem largely fine from what I've seen. I never hear of any acts of terrorism or anything of the sort from them. Ultimately, that's not the core idea of the movements to force it upon everyone so it shouldn't be considered extremist.

The Maya civilization was largely lost, but the culture still exists: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maya_peoples

Of course, everyone in Guatemala is considered Guatemalan by nationality. However, the Mayans there usually don't consider themselves Guatemalan but by their respective Maya culture they belong to, such as "K'iche'." Hell, some don't even speak the official language of Spanish. The typical Guatemalan is considered "Mestizo" by the census and the Maya often consider them "Ladino," who are perceived as an entirely separate culture from them.

I'm sure many folks wouldn't agree, but then again I don't have a whole lot of national identity and I don't view it as that important.

If that had happened two hundred years ago and I wasn't forced to follow the customs of the new people, and could follow my own customs, I wouldn't care. I might be biased cause I like Asian culture, but ya know.

I'm gonna be honest, if the natives of the Americas founded their own nation there would be plenty of cultural issues between those individual tribes.

It goes deeper than just national identity though. There are plenty of other advantages that becoming an independent nation would bring to Native American cultures. I'd argue the advantages far outweigh the "cons" of becoming independent for Native Americans, though I don't believe they are ready for that, YET.

BTW, I don't mean finding just one independent nation for all Native Americans. I actually mean if each Native American culture found their own nation based on significant cultural boundaries, such as language. For example, the Purepecha, Cherokee, Inuit, and Quechua are all completely separate, unrelated Native American cultures throughout the Americas, so they would acquire their own independent nations. So, don't forget to add the "s" to nations because I mean multiple nations! Therefore, cultural issues due to differences shouldn't be present.

Honestly I'm not into the whole victim olypmics.

Dyslexic? Ha, but seriously, I don't mean to play "who's the bigger victim", so I prefer not to compare issues in terms of what would might considered worse. I find that can be immature or unnecessary at times. I usually only compare issues in terms of where they're specified to and how distinct they are in some ways. Thus, I prefer to say "Africans and Native Americans each have their own unique issues."