@DeathpooltheT1000: Sidious turned Vader into that badarse, AND had how many clones of himself as a sort of permanent redundancy system? AND got Luke to apprentice to him while he was trying out his new body?
Oh, yeah, and that whole destabilizing a SYSTEM WIDE government and taking over.
Badarse. Total badarse.
@Edamame: Plageuis was definitely up there, in the top five.
Revan was aiight, and I say that being the total, utter, and complete KoTOR fan that I am. Sidious never would have gotten taken out the way Revan was.
Syfo-Dyas (which it's interesting Qui Gonn says "He died ten years ago" and years later, Obi-Wan says "He died ten years ago"...yay Lucas) was a member of the Jedi Council that Dooku impersonated when he went to Kamino. Also, with his ability to cloak himself in the Dark Side, and Sidious giving him information, he most likely used the stolen identity to erase the Jedi records of the planet.
@Edamame: There is a school of thought (I've come across it in canon, as well) that the Force is a living, sentient entity, but so alien to us we cannot understand it as "life". It manipulates individuals into serving it, thus Sidious being a puppet, etc.
I believe it is an influence, but I don't think it's as all encompassing as that.
But as I said, I'm not very well versed in the EU, so I'm not certain how much of this philosophy is canon.
@Edamame: Yes, Light and Dark are the flip sides of a coin, and each side has its own agenda, manipulating events and those who have the ability to sense them (and therefore be guided, granted powers, etc.) in order to push those agendas.
Again, I'm just explaining it how I understand it. :)
Greatest as in...? If you mean most important, the most important Sith in history are:
Naga Sadow (the man that brought the Sith out of exile) Darth Revan (maybe. He was the first with the idea of the Rule of Two) Darth Bane (creator of the Rule of Two) Palpatine (the first to completely control the galaxy)
If you mean most powerful, it might be Palpatine. But he has competition with:
@Tomokata: The Living Force is canon but so are a lot of other views of the Force. They're just trying to make the Force Star Wars version of God, the everyone has their opinion but nobody really knows for sure kind of thing.
" Greatest as in...? If you mean most important, the most important Sith in history are: Naga Sadow (the man that brought the Sith out of exile) Darth Revan (maybe. He was the first with the idea of the Rule of Two) Darth Bane (creator of the Rule of Two) Palpatine (the first to completely control the galaxy) If you mean most powerful, it might be Palpatine. But he has competition with: Exar Kun Naga Sadow Darth Bane Darth Nihilus. "
Sidious is the most powerful, but I agree with the ones you listed for competition. Although my problem with Kun is that you don't know how much of his power was actually his. He got a lot of Sith artifacts. Not to mention, what feats does he have that would put him with those who can destroy planets, drain planets, and destroy stars? I've read Tales of the Jedi. I don't see it.
Also, you're listing the most important in order as to when they came. Sidious is the most important out of all of them because he basically brought what they taught into fruition. So, I would put it the other way around. I would say Vader would be on that list, but he only fulfills the Chosen One prophecy as a Jedi, not a Sith.
Exar Kun was pretty powerful, generally due to the fact that the man came back. He possessed Kyp, I believe, and ripped his ship out of the gas planet Yavin. I forget what else he did. Well, Naga Sadow I believe is the most important. Without him, the Dark Jedi exiles wouldn't have come to the known galaxy, and never would have gone to war against the Jedi. It's possible that Palpatine did what he did because he learned from Revan. Bane created the Rule of Two, which is one of the most important things in Sith history. I'd type more but the site is limiting my post window, for some reason, so I can't type much.
" @Silver2467: Exar Kun was pretty powerful, generally due to the fact that the man came back. He possessed Kyp, I believe, and ripped his ship out of the gas planet Yavin. I forget what else he did. Well, Naga Sadow I believe is the most important. Without him, the Dark Jedi exiles wouldn't have come to the known galaxy, and never would have gone to war against the Jedi. It's possible that Palpatine did what he did because he learned from Revan. Bane created the Rule of Two, which is one of the most important things in Sith history. I'd type more but the site is limiting my post window, for some reason, so I can't type much. "
Well you're talking about Kun while he was in his Essence Transfer/Ghost state. I'm talking about while he was alive. Even in that state though, he never did anything comparable to Sadow, Nihilus, or Sidious during Dark Empire.
Again, I'm not sure I agree with the order you put them in. I would inverse the order, personally, but that's just me.
Technically, wouldn't Palpatine in Dark Empire be in a transfer / ghost state? Just saying.
Truth be told, I listed them in order of when they did the things that made them important. However, without Naga Sadow, Bane, and possibly Revan, Palpatine never could have succeeded. What they did changed the Sith. Palpatine didn't lead the way much for other Sith (except for Caedus. Krayt was a pretender, as said by Bane). But I agree that what he did was what the Sith always tried to do. Nihilus did it first, though.
" @Silver2467: Technically, wouldn't Palpatine in Dark Empire be in a transfer / ghost state? Just saying. Truth be told, I listed them in order of when they did the things that made them important. However, without Naga Sadow, Bane, and possibly Revan, Palpatine never could have succeeded. What they did changed the Sith. Palpatine didn't lead the way much for other Sith (except for Caedus. Krayt was a pretender, as said by Bane). But I agree that what he did was what the Sith always tried to do. Nihilus did it first, though. "
He was in an Essence Transfer state, but he did get into his clone bodies all the same. And in those clone bodies, he was the most powerful Sith to exist (and he was at least close to the most powerful in his original body).
Well, if you go by that, then Ajunta Pall should be on that list also, because without Ajunta would never have been Sadow. See, that's why I don't put them in that order. Another thing that makes Sidious significant is the role he played with Anakin/Vader. Nihilus did it first, but again, I don't like it when people compare what Sith like Revan, Malak, Nihilus, and Sion did to Sidious because Sidious defeated the Jedi while they were in one of their most prosperous states. The others defeated the Jedi after they had been severely weakened by several wars.
True. And, according to my theory (that Palpatine had Dark Empire-level power ever since the Jedi Purge, when he raided the temple - he just never needed to use said power), it makes sense. I personally don't see the hype in Kun. But I still say he has competition for the title of strongest Sith. Naga Sadow and Nihilus are very impressive.
Perhaps. Ajunta, however, wasn't a Sith. The Sith didn't exist until the exiles bred with the Sith natives on Korriban. I see your point.
" @Silver2467: True. And, according to my theory (that Palpatine had Dark Empire-level power ever since the Jedi Purge, when he raided the temple - he just never needed to use said power), it makes sense. I personally don't see the hype in Kun. But I still say he has competition for the title of strongest Sith. Naga Sadow and Nihilus are very impressive. Perhaps. Ajunta, however, wasn't a Sith. The Sith didn't exist until the exiles bred with the Sith natives on Korriban. I see your point. But I didn't list them in terms of importance. "
And I agree with that theory. It makes sense. I don't really see the hype in Kun either. He was a very important Sith, as he did greatly weaken the Jedi and the Republic of that time, as did other wars of the time. He also invented the double saber. That's significant. He was powerful, but while he was alive, he just got too many artifacts, talismans, and he had his gauntlets. I don't even know how much of his power was really his. I agree that in his Essence Transfer state on Yavin, he was impressive, but not to the degree of Sidious, Sadow, and Nihilus.
Ajunta Pall was not the first dark sider, but he was the fist to claim the title of Dark Lord of the Sith. That's significant. He did have a fairly long-lasting Sith empire on Korriban. Obviously, that's not as impressive as ruling the galaxy, but it did last a while and prepared the Exiles to come out of hiding.
i read bits and pieces of the 'fate of the jedi order' and it said that something possessed jacen to make him go crazy and become a sith, kill his mother, and then meet hsi end at the hands of his sisters lightsabre.
bane was a total bad-ass. he brought together the rule of two, survived a jedi onslaught, unknowingly killed his father, etc...
" @Tomokata: The Living Force is canon but so are a lot of other views of the Force. They're just trying to make the Force Star Wars version of God, the everyone has their opinion but nobody really knows for sure kind of thing. "
Okay, so it hasn't been nailed down as a "THIS IS WHAT THE FORCE IS" kind of thing. Whew. Thanks for the explanation!
The problem with Marka Ragnos is that he has no feats. Every appearance he's ever had was after his death. His earliest appearance - continuity speaking - was his funeral.
The problem with Marka Ragnos is that he has no feats. Every appearance he's ever had was after his death. His earliest appearance - continuity speaking - was his funeral. "
Doesn't really matter he's gone down all time as the greatest, every sith lord has paid respect to him and he's helped influence the most powerful sith lords.
The problem with Marka Ragnos is that he has no feats. Every appearance he's ever had was after his death. His earliest appearance - continuity speaking - was his funeral. "
Doesn't really matter he's gone down all time as the greatest, every sith lord has paid respect to him and he's helped influence the most powerful sith lords. "
True. But his only feat, really, is losing to Jaden Korr (Jedi Knight). He might have been an excellent duelist in his time, though. But his Force abilities aren't really spoken of.
I don't see how. He fulfilled the prophecy, yes, but that's more a plus for the Jedi than the Sith. As a Sith, Vader is more or less a weakling compared to others.
I don't see how. He fulfilled the prophecy, yes, but that's more a plus for the Jedi than the Sith. As a Sith, Vader is more or less a weakling compared to others. "
His actions between ROTS and when he killed his master, speak for themselves.
Not really. Most Sith kill their master (and Obi-Wan kinda took a dive) and there are Sith that have killed more Jedi. Nihilus killed everyone, who were all Force sensitives, on a planet - including the remnant of the Jedi Council, I believe.
" @Bio Guyver: Not really. Most Sith kill their master (and Obi-Wan kinda took a dive) and there are Sith that have killed more Jedi. Nihilus killed everyone, who were all Force sensitives, on a planet - including the remnant of the Jedi Council, I believe. "
I'm not changing my opinion.
Sorry, but I'm not in the mood of debating over "who is the better fictional character." No offense.
" @Bio Guyver: Not really. Most Sith kill their master (and Obi-Wan kinda took a dive) and there are Sith that have killed more Jedi. Nihilus killed everyone, who were all Force sensitives, on a planet - including the remnant of the Jedi Council, I believe. "
I'm not changing my opinion. Sorry, but I'm not in the mood of debating over "who is the better fictional character." No offense. "
" @Bio Guyver: Not really. Most Sith kill their master (and Obi-Wan kinda took a dive) and there are Sith that have killed more Jedi. Nihilus killed everyone, who were all Force sensitives, on a planet - including the remnant of the Jedi Council, I believe. "
I'm not changing my opinion. Sorry, but I'm not in the mood of debating over "who is the better fictional character." No offense. "
Rather close minded, but I take no offense. "
I'm close-minded, if I or another user don't agree with what you think? I believe this is one of those threads, where an opinion can go either way, especially when the various siths differ from each other.
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