• 100 results
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
Avatar image for yousufkhan1212
#1 Edited by YousufKhan1212 (2265 posts) - - Show Bio

I know this might be an unusual place to post something like this because so many users have made rape jokes and scream SJWs at people for getting mad about these jokes, but eff that, I would like to share a dear friend's article about her experience of sexual violence to hopefully spread her testimony and awareness of how serious rape is. Here's her article:

"Being referred to as a “victim” sends shivers down my spine. I am a survivor.

I am a survivor of sexual abuse and rape.

It isn’t easy to cope with, and it isn’t something which I will ever forget. However, with the help of my family and friends, I have been able to continue my life – looking towards the future.

At first, it seemed as if my entire world had collapsed and that I would never be able to continue. I felt alone. I felt scared. I felt dirty and disgusting. I felt guilty. I felt like I was to blame. I felt unsafe.

No one should ever have to feel like this. It breaks my heart knowing there are girls and boys, men and women in this world who feel the same way that I did.

It consumed my life. I thought it had ruined me and had destroyed me. I worried about what was going to happen to me if I spoke out, and I worried about how I was going to get over it. I felt like no one in the world would understand, no matter how hard I tried.

That’s why we, the survivors, have to stand together and speak up for ourselves.

We can find our safe haven. We may have to leave a relationship or break free of toxic family members, but we have a choice now as to who we share our space with.

It is up to us to make a difference in our world and eliminate our abusers. They aren’t stronger than us – no matter what the say or do, they’re pathetic and insignificant. Do NOT forget that.

Survivors be encouraged – take back your space; take back your safety; take back your joy; take back your day; take back your life."

Source: https://theprestonhub.co.uk/2018/07/30/junior-miss-preston-opens-up-about-sexual-abuse/

Please don't make any of them nasty rape jokes in this thread.

EDIT: I forgot to add this these thoughts of mine:

Too many people believe that how someone is dressed, affects the chances of them being raped and makes it their fault that they were raped. These kind of people are called rape apologists. Rape apologists assert that a woman is "asking for it" and inviting rape by "dressing too provocatively", and that is really effed up.

Rape has nothing to do with clothing and has everything to do with rapists being vile human beings. Muslim women who wear burkas and Catholic nuns wear clothing that covers most of their body, but they get raped a lot. Wearing high heels and dressing in a way that's not like the 1950s (rape was very common back then too) doesn't invite rape. Sex requires consent. Whether you want sex or not is a yes or no answer, it can't be a yes and no at the same time. A man should not feel the urge to sexually assault a woman and disregard the lack of consent. A man should only have sex with a woman if she has given valid consent. If you're going to feel sexually stimulated by how a woman dresses to the point that you're just going to sexually assault her and disregard the lack of consent, then there's clearly something mentally wrong with you, and you shouldn’t be anywhere near women if you feel the urge to rape them. You shouldn’t be around people in general because men also get raped, and there’s also women who rape men.

Tl;dr if you’re a rapist you’re a nasty creature.

Avatar image for phillip33
#2 Posted by phillip33 (4272 posts) - - Show Bio

Simply terrible. Rape is a terrible thing and actual convicted rapists should face the maximum jail sentence. My condolences to your friend if true.

Avatar image for yousufkhan1212
#3 Posted by YousufKhan1212 (2265 posts) - - Show Bio

@phillip33: Yeah she was definitely raped, I can tell that she suffered PTSD from her sexual assault when she told me in person, and she’s also got really good awareness of male suicide rates and stigmas with male mental health, so she is by no means an SJW. She’s really kind and compassionate.

Avatar image for heroup2112
#4 Posted by HeroUp2112 (18329 posts) - - Show Bio

This is a horrible thing to happen to somebody and I'm glad she's gotten to a healthy place about it. On the other topic, I've seen these weak ass rape jokes and the excuse "you can't censor me" and "nothing is off limits for comedy" crap. Maybe so, maybe no, but how about you be a grown up human being and have a LITTLE sensitivity and responsibility and censor your own damn self. These are people who've been through serious, horrific trauma and sometimes worse, and shouldn't be the punchline of a joke.

Are you ALLOWED to make your dumb ass jokes about them (and omg so much worse, child molestation)? Yes. Are you a gigantic asshole when you do? You'd better believe it.

Avatar image for doofasa
#5 Posted by Doofasa (2174 posts) - - Show Bio

@yousufkhan1212:

I’m sorry this happened to your friend. It’s such a traumatic and shit thing to go through, so I’m glad she seems to be at least somewhat coming to terms with it. In regards to your other points, some people seem to believe that their right to say anything they want should transcend others rights to be treated with dignity and respect, especially in an online community. Which is sad. It’s important to remember that a lot of it comes down to maturity level and many users on this site are both young and immature.

Avatar image for yousufkhan1212
#6 Edited by YousufKhan1212 (2265 posts) - - Show Bio

@heroup2112: I absolutely agree. People who make rape jokes so recklessly have no clue how much damage sexual assault does to a person’s spirit.

Too many people believe that how someone is dressed, affects the chances of them being raped and makes it their fault that they were raped. These kind of people are called rape apologists. Rape apologists assert that a woman is "asking for it" and inviting rape by "dressing too provocatively", and that is really effed up.

Rape has nothing to do with clothing and has everything to do with rapists being vile human beings. Muslim women who wear burkas and Catholic nuns wear clothing that covers most of their body, but they get raped a lot. Wearing high heels and dressing in a way that's not like the 1950s (rape was very common back then too) doesn't invite rape. Sex requires consent. Whether you want sex or not is a yes or no answer, it can't be a yes and no at the same time. A man should not feel the urge to sexually assault a woman and disregard the lack of consent. A man should only have sex with a woman if she has given valid consent. If you're going to feel sexually stimulated by how a woman dresses to the point that you're just going to sexually assault her and disregard the lack of consent, then there's clearly something mentally wrong with you, and you shouldn’t be anywhere near women if you feel the urge to rape them. You shouldn’t be around people in general because men also get raped, and there’s also women who rape men.

Tl;dr if you’re a rapist you’re a nasty creature.

Avatar image for yousufkhan1212
#7 Edited by YousufKhan1212 (2265 posts) - - Show Bio

@doofasa: Yeah I see what you’re talking about. A lot of the most active users on here are 14-16 males or maybe the age range is slightly larger (women mature faster than men so the female users will logically know better) and most guys of that age will be too immature to know how sexual abuse affects the victim/survivor.

I’ve been on this site since I was 15 years old, I’m 18, only 5 months away from turning 19, you can mature a lot from 15 to 18, I know I have. I knew next to nothing about rape if I was to go back 1 year, let alone 3 years. Younger me would be like “rapists are pretty messed up people I feel sorry for anyone who gets raped” and that’s it, but now I want to become a sexual abuse counsellor or at least help people heal from experiences of sexual violence.

Avatar image for thekillerklok
#8 Edited by Thekillerklok (10054 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for mylittlefascist
#9 Posted by MyLittleFascist (31727 posts) - - Show Bio

This is a horrible thing to happen to somebody and I'm glad she's gotten to a healthy place about it. On the other topic, I've seen these weak ass rape jokes and the excuse "you can't censor me" and "nothing is off limits for comedy" crap. Maybe so, maybe no, but how about you be a grown up human being and have a LITTLE sensitivity and responsibility and censor your own damn self. These are people who've been through serious, horrific trauma and sometimes worse, and shouldn't be the punchline of a joke.

Are you ALLOWED to make your dumb ass jokes about them (and omg so much worse, child molestation)? Yes. Are you a gigantic asshole when you do? You'd better believe it.

I don't really want to turn this into a discussion, but... this is a severe misrepresentation of things. Rape jokes are not about making fun of victims. The victims are not the "punchline of the joke".

Rape jokes are about highlighting and bringing attention to the absurdity of the situation.

Humor is a coping mechanism. It is a way for the mind to process situations that are stressful and uncomfortable to confront and deal with. If you don't confront and deal with these types of things, you give it power over you. The only way to cope with a past trauma is to actually confront it. That's why help groups are all about sharing stories and talking about the experience. By applying humor to a situation, it becomes easier to talk about. If you shy away from anything and everything that reminds you of the experience, then you are in fact, hindering your own recovery.

Avatar image for doofasa
#10 Edited by Doofasa (2174 posts) - - Show Bio

@mylittlefascist said:
@heroup2112 said:

This is a horrible thing to happen to somebody and I'm glad she's gotten to a healthy place about it. On the other topic, I've seen these weak ass rape jokes and the excuse "you can't censor me" and "nothing is off limits for comedy" crap. Maybe so, maybe no, but how about you be a grown up human being and have a LITTLE sensitivity and responsibility and censor your own damn self. These are people who've been through serious, horrific trauma and sometimes worse, and shouldn't be the punchline of a joke.

Are you ALLOWED to make your dumb ass jokes about them (and omg so much worse, child molestation)? Yes. Are you a gigantic asshole when you do? You'd better believe it.

I don't really want to turn this into a discussion, but... this is a severe misrepresentation of things. Rape jokes are not about making fun of victims. The victims are not the "punchline of the joke".

Rape jokes are about highlighting and bringing attention to the absurdity of the situation.

Humor is a coping mechanism. It is a way for the mind to process situations that are stressful and uncomfortable to confront and deal with. If you don't confront and deal with these types of things, you give it power over you. The only way to cope with a past trauma is to actually confront it. That's why help groups are all about sharing stories and talking about the experience. By applying humor to a situation, it becomes easier to talk about. If you shy away from anything and everything that reminds you of the experience, then you are in fact, hindering your own recovery.

I think you are looking at only one perspective and one aspect of this type of humour or jokes, which is in itself a misrepresentation. Yes humour and jokes can be a coping mechanism, but it can also be a means of belittling, degrading, insulting or dismissing, intentional or unintentionally. This is especially poignant in the context we are discussing, as it is very rarely the survivors of rape that are making rape jokes. Do you really think that the rape survivor help groups you describe are sitting around making rape jokes?

Yes shying away from trauma is often incongruous with coping with it, however so is the trivialisation of that trauma through tactless joking about it.

Avatar image for mutant1230
#11 Posted by Mutant1230 (6631 posts) - - Show Bio

Simply terrible. Rape is a terrible thing and actual convicted rapists should face the maximum jail sentence. My condolences to your friend if true.

Avatar image for mylittlefascist
#12 Edited by MyLittleFascist (31727 posts) - - Show Bio

@doofasa:

Yes humour and jokes can be a coping mechanism, but it can also be a means of belittling, degrading, insulting or dismissing, intentional or unintentionally.

Here's the thing. Dark jokes are only funny because they are screwed up. It's the dichotomy of taking something horrifying and presenting it in a seemingly light-hearted way, that makes it funny. A rape joke cannot truely "trivialize" rape, because if rape were "trivial", there wouldn't be a joke.

Do you really think that the rape survivor help groups you describe are sitting around making rape jokes?

Sort of... yea... I do...

Rape survivor groups aren't comedians and their goal isn't to sit there coming up with jokes that are laugh out loud funny.

Their goal is to talk about their experiences. Do I believe that in the midst of discussion, people often blurt out mildly humorous/chuckle-worthy things in an attempt to make it easier to talk about their experiences? Yes... I do... They may not put 2 and 2 together to realize that what they said technically qualifies as a "rape joke", but I am sure it happens quite often.

People find humor in their own misery all the time. People laugh in stressful situations all the time. It's completely normal.

Avatar image for doofasa
#13 Posted by Doofasa (2174 posts) - - Show Bio

@doofasa:

Yes humour and jokes can be a coping mechanism, but it can also be a means of belittling, degrading, insulting or dismissing, intentional or unintentionally.

Here's the thing. Dark jokes are only funny because they are screwed up. It's the dichotomy of taking something horrifying and presenting it in a seemingly light-hearted way, that makes it funny. A rape joke cannot truely "trivialize" rape, because if rape were "trivial", there wouldn't be a joke.

  • Sometimes dark jokes can help present something horrifying in a light-hearted way, which is why I said that you were representing one aspect of this type of humour. A lot of the time though, dark jokes aren't funny to the survivors of the topic that is being joked about, or they can be intentionally used to hurt or harm them. For example, do you think white people should be able to joke about the historical suffering of black people? It could be intended as making light of the history of slavery and oppression of these people and their ancestors, but does that make it okay?

Do you really think that the rape survivor help groups you describe are sitting around making rape jokes?

Sort of... yea... I do...

Rape survivor groups aren't comedians and their goal isn't to sit there coming up with jokes that are laugh out loud funny.

Their goal is to talk about their experiences. Do I believe that in the midst of discussion, people often blurt out mildly humorous/chuckle-worthy things in an attempt to make it easier to talk about their experiences? Yes... I do... They may not put 2 and 2 together to realize that what they said technically qualifies as a "rape joke", but I am sure it happens quite often.

People find humor in their own misery all the time. People laugh in stressful situations all the time. It's completely normal.

  • I agree people find humour in their own misery, but there is a huge difference between that and other people finding humour in your misery, particularly when they have not experienced the trauma/misery themselves.

Avatar image for sc
#14 Posted by SC (18159 posts) - - Show Bio

@heroup2112: I absolutely agree. People who make rape jokes so recklessly have no clue how much damage sexual assault does to a person’s spirit.

Too many people believe that how someone is dressed, affects the chances of them being raped and makes it their fault that they were raped. These kind of people are called rape apologists. Rape apologists assert that a woman is "asking for it" and inviting rape by "dressing too provocatively", and that is really effed up.

Rape has nothing to do with clothing and has everything to do with rapists being vile human beings. Muslim women who wear burkas and Catholic nuns wear clothing that covers most of their body, but they get raped a lot. Wearing high heels and dressing in a way that's not like the 1950s (rape was very common back the too) doesn't invite rape. Sex requires consent. Whether you want sex or not is a yes or no answer, it can't be a yes and no at the same time. A man should not feel the urge to sexually assault a woman and disregard the lack of consent. A man should only have sex with a woman if she has given valid consent. If you're going to feel sexually stimulated by how a woman dresses to the point that you're just going to sexually assault her and disregard the lack of consent, then there's clearly something mentally wrong with you, and you shouldn’t be anywhere near women if you feel the urge to rape them. You shouldn’t be around people in general because men also get raped, and there’s also women who rape men.

Tl;dr if you’re a rapist you’re a nasty creature.

Hello. Thank you for posting that link and I am sorry about what happened to your friend.

You are completely correct and accurate about clothing being a non factor when it comes to rape. Not only because the emphasis and responsibility should be firmly focused on the rapist actions and behavior... but also because most of what we know statistically, from victim/survivor accounts and accounts from offenders/rapists is that rape isn't actually about sex, its more about power and a few other types of urge/satisfaction, an individual asserting their will and violating another's agency. The sexual aspect is layered into, more as the tool or weapon. Its horrible having to explain this with examples, but you are correct, woman who wear very conservative clothing, also get raped. Nuns cloth, burkas, and woman in loose, baggy, sweat clothes, all have been/can be targeted. We have first hand accounts of rapists talking about what motivated them and what they were thinking... in some cases the rapist can't even remember what the victim/survivor was wearing.

I think its important to understand this, because I think (and I was guilty of this too) I think, a lot of society and people as individuals, think that rape is motivated by how sexy a potential victim is/how horny a potential rapist is, because of "common sense" but rapists usually are struggling with a very warped mind view/deep mental health issues/conditioning, and so most normal people, will try and understand how/how they act, but the mindset is very different from how people assume.

People also like to insulate themselves and safeguard those they are attached to. So often, some people will try and create separation from what happened to victims and why... and what might happen to people they actually care about more... if the victim was acting promiscuous, and slutty... and wearing shameless clothes going out drinking a lot... but my sister doesn't do that... my friends don't... my girlfriend doesn't... so she will be okay. This is a contributing factor to victim blaming also.

I hope it doesn't sound like I am disagreeing with you, rather I am just trying to elaborate on some details and specifics. I have studied this topic a lot in the past. Like 80 percent of my closest circle of friends were raped. I can understand extreme anger towards rapists. I might only add, that, sometimes, even though it can be hard, its good not to dehumanize them too much... especially if you want to work as a counsellor (thats a noble and honorable aspiration by the way). Not to suppress your emotions. They exist for a great and valid reason, and are good to show empathy/sympathy, I mean as far as understanding the problems better and looking for solutions. It helps sometimes to view rapists as monsters, because it creates a division, that helps us when reacting to such horrible trauma/actions and behavior... but when we switch to trying to be proactive, and preventative measures, we may have to start looking at individuals who show warning signs of behavior and instability before they act... and sometimes compassion and understanding helps those people from becoming monsters.

(PS. I sometimes use victim and not survivor, I'll try to use language for the situation, to accommodate people when/where I can, but I have known and worked with many 'victims' and 'survivors', and honestly, some people are just fine with victim, I get why some don't like the connotations, but some also don't like using a new term if it seems to sanitize their experience either. They find it patronizing and not empowering, but others do prefer it, so mixed bag really, just as a disclaimer, not disrespect or insult intended.)

Moderator
Avatar image for sc
#15 Edited by SC (18159 posts) - - Show Bio

@heroup2112 said:

This is a horrible thing to happen to somebody and I'm glad she's gotten to a healthy place about it. On the other topic, I've seen these weak ass rape jokes and the excuse "you can't censor me" and "nothing is off limits for comedy" crap. Maybe so, maybe no, but how about you be a grown up human being and have a LITTLE sensitivity and responsibility and censor your own damn self. These are people who've been through serious, horrific trauma and sometimes worse, and shouldn't be the punchline of a joke.

Are you ALLOWED to make your dumb ass jokes about them (and omg so much worse, child molestation)? Yes. Are you a gigantic asshole when you do? You'd better believe it.

I don't really want to turn this into a discussion, but... this is a severe misrepresentation of things. Rape jokes are not about making fun of victims. The victims are not the "punchline of the joke".

Rape jokes are about highlighting and bringing attention to the absurdity of the situation.

Humor is a coping mechanism. It is a way for the mind to process situations that are stressful and uncomfortable to confront and deal with. If you don't confront and deal with these types of things, you give it power over you. The only way to cope with a past trauma is to actually confront it. That's why help groups are all about sharing stories and talking about the experience. By applying humor to a situation, it becomes easier to talk about. If you shy away from anything and everything that reminds you of the experience, then you are in fact, hindering your own recovery.

I agree with you, but I'd say its all about context. Some people are better with nuance, timing, and reading the social temperature of a room. Not all rape jokes are about making fun of victims, but as heroup suggests, there is a lot of humor and comedy that punches down at targets, and is defended under the premise of being above such ethical considerations. Sometimes not even really defended under the premise of being above such ethics, but defended against criticisms as well. Which is ironic.

Granted humor/comedy involves a lot of subjective elements, and there are some who think some topics, should be completely off topics, no matter the situation or context, but I don't think thats what heroup is suggesting (I could be wrong) and I think you make your points well too, I agree with them generally. All my funniest friends have in fact been raped. Humor is an amazing coping mechanism, and I myself have joked about rape before... granted, it was usually by satirizing others attempts at making edgy rape jokes that fell extremely flat... but still... but and I'd assume most people would agree with me, if we are in a situation where we find out a stranger has been raped, we probably wouldn't make a dumb edgy rape joke... and even if we were skilled enough to make a classy intelligent rape joke, ehh... contextually might not be the best course of behavior. Unless you were incredible at reading people and could tell thats actually what would comfort the person the most in that moment but I am spending too much time on this point.

I think the main point I want to emphasize on, is that its a context sensitive issue. Some people can't deliver such material properly, but some probably still do it anyway, because its edgy and "Anti PC" and attracts/appeals to a certain crowd. Not that that is inherently wrong either, its a bigger conversation.

Moderator
Avatar image for mylittlefascist
#16 Edited by MyLittleFascist (31727 posts) - - Show Bio

@doofasa:

Sometimes dark jokes can help present something horrifying in a light-hearted way, which is why I said that you were representing one aspect of this type of humour. A lot of the time though, dark jokes aren't funny to the survivors of the topic that is being joked about, or they can be intentionally used to hurt or harm them.

Nonetheless, they are things that should be talked about and should be joked about, because again, jokes are a very good way of bringing issues to light.

Are there going to be people who use the "it's just a joke!" excuse to say things with the intention of causing emotional harm? Yes... But you know what happens when you censor and make things taboo? You give it more power to cause harm.

For example, do you think white people should be able to joke about the historical suffering of black people? It could be intended as making light of the history of slavery and oppression of these people and their ancestors, but does that make it okay?

Umm, yes... yes, I do...

These jokes bring attention to the fact that horrible things happened, and it acknowledges the fact that these things are horrible. If these things were not considered horrible, then there would not be a joke.

I agree people find humour in their own misery, but there is a huge difference between that and other people finding humour in your misery, particularly when they have not experienced the trauma/misery themselves.

But it's not just about finding humor in the misery, it's about finding humor in the absurdity of the situation. A joke about a horrible situation is an acknowledgement that the situation is horrible.

Avatar image for mylittlefascist
#17 Edited by MyLittleFascist (31727 posts) - - Show Bio

@sc: I agree, nuance, timing, delivery, are very important to whether or not a joke becomes funny or offensive, and yes there are people who suck at making jokes and yet still try. But I mean... they will never improve if they don't try.

People shouldn't be afraid to say what's on their mind.

Avatar image for sc
#18 Posted by SC (18159 posts) - - Show Bio

@mylittlefascist: Yeah I agree with that too. I'd probably just add its important to balance being forthright with having tact. I think many countries laws regarding nudity are archaic for example, and that people get too hung up on words and nor the context and intent behind words, but you probably won't find me nude on the street shouting the most offensive words I can think of.

Oh and not just because its offensive, it wouldn't be beneficial to many/any, and in some contexts it might just be a nuisance. Or a waster of time, energy. My own, other peoples. News cycles potentially. This can loop back to comedy, because I personally never feel offended by comedy, but there are some comedians I actively avoid, because worse than potentially being offensive, their content is just really stale, unfunny and mediocre. There can also be an element of ethics involved as well though. I am very critically minded when it comes to ethics, others, myself... I don't think its possible for humor to exist in a vacuum, without ethics. Rather, a good sense of ethics and understanding, can say distinguish between a rape victim making a self deprecating joke at their own expense, and say a politician making a joke on the premise of a flawed understanding of biology, that negatively implicates rape victims. If the backlash is such, that the politician ends up financial, political, career set backs, then I am not sure that would be a bad thing. For ethical reasons, as opposed to either being offended or wanting to censor someone. The ideal would be that the politician wouldn't have a flawed understanding of biology.... but hypotheticals and all that. Thats a politician though, a different standard (ideally) than a comedian.

I am a naturally sarcastic person, so there have been a few times when I have been misunderstood and accidentally offended someone, but its relatively rare, probably because my sarcasm is painfully obvious often, but I am also always willing to take responsibility too, and defuse a situation, aware that sometimes I take certain risks when I use language a certain way. What it sounds like you are advocating for and I would agree with this too, is more general transparency. I think this can apply to humor process as well. This can be tricky though, because sometimes some peoples reasoning is more reasonable and ethical than others. "I thought this racially charged joke would be funny because..." versus "Geez, why are you all offended? Its comedy... nothing is off limits. Relax" but that depends too.

Moderator
Avatar image for ghostodoofus2
#19 Posted by Ghostodoofus2 (908 posts) - - Show Bio

@yousufkhan1212: It's admirable that your friend shared her story to raise awareness. A friend of mine shared her story quite recently too, it was horrifying to think that behind her exuberance and friendliness that she had such a horrifying backstory; she's coping well now I believe, I admire her for sharing the story and encouraging more to do the same.

Avatar image for jonjizz
#20 Posted by jonjizz (1039 posts) - - Show Bio

i think we should be able to find humor in all things...... as long as the joke is not meant to be offensive, but only to make people laugh

Avatar image for doofasa
#21 Edited by Doofasa (2174 posts) - - Show Bio

@mylittlefascist: I agree with you that humour is important, as is preventing unnecessary censorship, but as SC has already expressed it is all about context. Take this thread for instance, the OP has stated that he feels these forums is an unusual place to share these types of stories, due to the prevalence of rape jokes and subsequently being labelled as a SJW if you take offence to them. He has also asked specifically that we don't make rape jokes. In this context do you think they are appropriate? Would you think rape jokes are appropriate when you are around someone that has just shared their story of survival of rape with you?

I do think comedy and humour is integral to keep us all sane in this world, however I don't believe it is something that should be inscrutable.

Just to be clear, I don't think that you're wrong or that I'm right and I hope I'm not coming across as attempting to portray you that way. I appreciate you taking the time to respond and for explaining your reasoning. Cheers.

Avatar image for ourmanuel
#22 Posted by ourmanuel (11923 posts) - - Show Bio

Tbh, as long as the joke has good timing and isn’t actually meant to offend, I can’t really see much wrong with it.

When most people make these dark jokes, its usually because that’s how humans cope with terrible things

Avatar image for mylittlefascist
#23 Posted by MyLittleFascist (31727 posts) - - Show Bio

@doofasa said:

@mylittlefascist: I agree with you that humour is important, as is preventing unnecessary censorship, but as SC has already expressed it is all about context. Take this thread for instance, the OP has stated that he feels these forums is an unusual place to share these types of stories, due to the prevalence of rape jokes and subsequently being labelled as a SJW if you take offence to them. He has also asked specifically that we don't make rape jokes. In this context do you think they are appropriate? Would you think rape jokes are appropriate when you are around someone that has just shared their story of survival of rape with you?

I do think comedy and humour is integral to keep us all sane in this world, however I don't believe it is something that should be inscrutable.

Just to be clear, I don't think that you're wrong or that I'm right and I hope I'm not coming across as attempting to portray you that way. I appreciate you taking the time to respond and for explaining your reasoning. Cheers.

No, but... That's kind of the point... Being inappropriate is where the humor comes from.

Case in point:

Please don't make any of them nasty rape jokes in this thread.

Avatar image for abstractraze
#24 Edited by AbstractRaze (2742 posts) - - Show Bio

This is not the appropriate situation to make rape jokes, because the main target of this OP, is to see how the person was affected by such an event, how drastically she changed, rape jokes can help many victims, depending on how the jokes are structured and depending on the individual's personality because there are other ways how to overcome those traumas, so, no one is in the position to generalize or argue that rape jokes are productive or unproductive, no matter how well structured they are.

However, the mere fact that people are actually arguing about rape jokes being good or bad while ignoring the main subject, shows a blatant disrespect toward the victim.

Avatar image for thekillerklok
#25 Posted by Thekillerklok (10054 posts) - - Show Bio

@abstractraze: But as far as I can tell the main subject is that rape jokes are bad and always unfunny which... I mean George Carlin's bit on rape jokes is hilarious.

Also for reasons, I don't much care for people speaking out on behalf of "survivors".

Avatar image for abstractraze
#26 Edited by AbstractRaze (2742 posts) - - Show Bio

@thekillerklok said:

@abstractraze: But as far as I can tell the main subject is that rape jokes are bad and always unfunny which... I mean George Carlin's bit on rape jokes is hilarious.

Also for reasons, I don't much care for people speaking out on behalf of "survivors".

Well, I recommend you to create an OP with rape jokes, furthermore, the OP is not trying to make a point about rape jokes being bad , but to discuss the given experience while not welcoming such besides being out from the subject.

You don't have to force your tasteless behavior into our throats, sure there could be people which like those jokes but I came here to read the anecdote.

Avatar image for yousufkhan1212
#27 Posted by YousufKhan1212 (2265 posts) - - Show Bio

The reason why I don't want any rape jokes in this is thread is because this is not the right time and place for them (not that I approve of them at any actual time and place), the whole reason why I posted Jessica's experience of sexual violence is to show people how badly it affected her, the last thing I want as a response from people are rape jokes and victim blaming, Jessica would be really upset if she saw what you guys were saying. If you want to make rape jokes, piss off and make them somewhere else.

Avatar image for yousufkhan1212
#28 Posted by YousufKhan1212 (2265 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for thekillerklok
#29 Posted by Thekillerklok (10054 posts) - - Show Bio

The reason why I don't want any rape jokes in this is thread is because this is not the right time and place for them (not that I approve of them at any actual time and place), the whole reason why I posted Jessica's experience of sexual violence is to show people how badly it affected her, the last thing I want as a response from people are rape jokes and victim blaming, Jessica would be really upset if she saw what you guys were saying. If you want to make rape jokes, piss off and make them somewhere else.

As someone who has been both sexually assaulted and falsely accused of sexual assault, I don't much care for virtue signaling by parties who aren't victims. I don't give a damn about the feelings of some random who isn't taking part in this conversation, and I don't much like being told that what jokes I am or am not allowed to make.

Avatar image for yousufkhan1212
#30 Edited by YousufKhan1212 (2265 posts) - - Show Bio

@thekillerklok: I'm sorry that you've experienced sexual assault and got falsely accused of sexual assault, but the fact that Jessica is going to take part in this conversation doesn't mean it's OK to make these kind of jokes when I'm trying to spread Jessica's testimony and awareness of how her experience made her feel. Making rape jokes is going to distract people from what I'm trying to do.

Avatar image for yousufkhan1212
#31 Posted by YousufKhan1212 (2265 posts) - - Show Bio

FFS, I've just noticed that I have so many people to respond to.

Avatar image for mylittlefascist
#32 Edited by MyLittleFascist (31727 posts) - - Show Bio

@yousufkhan1212 said:
@thekillerklok said:

Please don't make any of them nasty rape jokes in this thread.

-_-

Well in Klok's defense, you were uh... kind of asking for it...

(Yea, yea... I'll be seeing myself out)

@yousufkhan1212 said:

@thekillerklok: I'm sorry that you've experienced sexual assault and got accused of sexual assault, but the fact that Jessica is going to take part in this conversation doesn't mean it's OK to make these kind of jokes when I'm trying to spread Jessica's testimony and awareness of how her experience made her feel. Making rape jokes is going to distract people from what I'm trying to do.

Look, it's a horrible thing that happened to your friend, and I'm very sorry she had to go through such an ordeal.

With that in mind, you kind of created the discussion about rape jokes yourself the moment you brought it up and dedicated an entire paragraph to it in your OP. Had you not done that, the subject would have likely not come up at all.

It was extremely distracting by itself itself and Heroup's post only highlights this. His post was intended to be supportive, yet 90% of it was a rant about rape jokes.

With the way you structured the OP really makes it seem like you cared more about preaching your views on rape jokes than actually sharing the article; the article which you hid behind spoiler blocks, before going right back to the rape joke subject.

You may not have done it consciously, but that's how it comes across.

Avatar image for thekillerklok
#33 Edited by Thekillerklok (10054 posts) - - Show Bio

@thekillerklok: I'm sorry that you've experienced sexual assault and got accused of sexual assault, but the fact that Jessica is going to take part in this conversation doesn't mean it's OK to make these kind of jokes when I'm trying to spread Jessica's testimony and awareness of how her experience made her feel. Making rape jokes is going to distract people from what I'm trying to do.

But heres the thing, What are you trying to do?

Not to misrepresent you, because I don't claim to know your intention, but It seems to your point was Rape can't be joked about ever because anecdote. In which case I respectfully have to disagree.

Life is suffering, life if also finite, humor let's one get a bit of joy out of suffering, The path to hell is paved with good intentions, and I can't abide by policing freedoms based on personal truths and anecdotes.

Avatar image for yousufkhan1212
#34 Posted by YousufKhan1212 (2265 posts) - - Show Bio

@sc said:

Hello. Thank you for posting that link and I am sorry about what happened to your friend.

Hello. My friend seems to be healing from her experience because she has a loving family and great friends, life became a lot easier for her because she was eventually surrounded by positive people at the end of her high school years.

@sc said:

You are completely correct and accurate about clothing being a non factor when it comes to rape. Not only because the emphasis and responsibility should be firmly focused on the rapist actions and behavior... but also because most of what we know statistically, from victim/survivor accounts and accounts from offenders/rapists is that rape isn't actually about sex, its more about power and a few other types of urge/satisfaction, an individual asserting their will and violating another's agency. The sexual aspect is layered into, more as the tool or weapon. Its horrible having to explain this with examples, but you are correct, woman who wear very conservative clothing, also get raped. Nuns cloth, burkas, and woman in loose, baggy, sweat clothes, all have been/can be targeted. We have first hand accounts of rapists talking about what motivated them and what they were thinking... in some cases the rapist can't even remember what the victim/survivor was wearing.

Thank you so much! I didn't actually know that rapists rape women because they feel the need of having power until know; I have some more reading and research to do on sexual violence to start understanding the rapists themselves.

@sc said:

I think its important to understand this, because I think (and I was guilty of this too) I think, a lot of society and people as individuals, think that rape is motivated by how sexy a potential victim is/how horny a potential rapist is, because of "common sense" but rapists usually are struggling with a very warped mind view/deep mental health issues/conditioning, and so most normal people, will try and understand how/how they act, but the mindset is very different from how people assume.

Oh well :/, at least you're no longer guilty of this anymore, but yeah, rape isn't motivated by the victim and how they dress, it's motivated by the rapist's abnormal mental framework.

@sc said:

People also like to insulate themselves and safeguard those they are attached to. So often, some people will try and create separation from what happened to victims and why... and what might happen to people they actually care about more... if the victim was acting promiscuous, and slutty... and wearing shameless clothes going out drinking a lot... but my sister doesn't do that... my friends don't... my girlfriend doesn't... so she will be okay. This is a contributing factor to victim blaming also.

Absolutely, and that's wrong of people to think. If a victim is dressing like a slut, that doesn't mean you are allowed to rape them.

@scsaid:

I hope it doesn't sound like I am disagreeing with you, rather I am just trying to elaborate on some details and specifics. I have studied this topic a lot in the past. Like 80 percent of my closest circle of friends were raped. I can understand extreme anger towards rapists. I might only add, that, sometimes, even though it can be hard, its good not to dehumanize them too much... especially if you want to work as a counsellor (thats a noble and honorable aspiration by the way). Not to suppress your emotions. They exist for a great and valid reason, and are good to show empathy/sympathy, I mean as far as understanding the problems better and looking for solutions. It helps sometimes to view rapists as monsters, because it creates a division, that helps us when reacting to such horrible trauma/actions and behavior... but when we switch to trying to be proactive, and preventative measures, we may have to start looking at individuals who show warning signs of behavior and instability before they act... and sometimes compassion and understanding helps those people from becoming monsters.

I'm sorry that so many of your friends got raped, that's a terrible thing to deal with :(. If Jessica got raped again, I would be hell bent on taking down that rapist if I could find him/her. Rapists are disgusting pieces of shit, how would a counsellor be able to help them? I don't know how.

@scsaid:

(PS. I sometimes use victim and not survivor, I'll try to use language for the situation, to accommodate people when/where I can, but I have known and worked with many 'victims' and 'survivors', and honestly, some people are just fine with victim, I get why some don't like the connotations, but some also don't like using a new term if it seems to sanitize their experience either. They find it patronizing and not empowering, but others do prefer it, so mixed bag really, just as a disclaimer, not disrespect or insult intended.)'m

I was only using the term survivor because the only rape victim/survivor that I know is Jessica, I don't know any others. Jessica doesn't like being referred to as a victim because it makes her feel uncomfortable, so i call her a survivor.

Avatar image for yousufkhan1212
#35 Edited by YousufKhan1212 (2265 posts) - - Show Bio

@thekillerklok said:

Not to misrepresent you, because I don't claim to know your intention, but It seems to your point was Rape can't be joked about ever because anecdote. In which case I respectfully have to disagree.

Life is suffering, life if also finite, humor let's one get a bit of joy out of suffering, The path to hell is paved with good intentions, and I can't abide by policing freedoms based on personal truths and anecdotes.

My point was that you can't joke about rape in this thread. I personally don't like rape jokes, rape isn't something I would joke about, they don't make me laugh, but I can't stop people from joking about it at every time and place, so I don't bother getting mad at people for making rape jokes sometimes, I just leave it be. However, I am getting annoyed at people for showing spite towards me for not allowing them in this thread.

Avatar image for yousufkhan1212
#36 Edited by YousufKhan1212 (2265 posts) - - Show Bio
@mylittlefascist said:

Look, it's a horrible thing that happened to your friend, and I'm very sorry she had to go through such an ordeal.

With that in mind, you kind of created the discussion about rape jokes yourself the moment you brought it up and dedicated an entire paragraph to it in your OP. Had you not done that, the subject would have likely not come up at all.

It was extremely distracting by itself itself and Heroup's post only highlights this. His post was intended to be supportive, yet 90% of it was a rant about rape jokes.

With the way you structured the OP really makes it seem like you cared more about preaching your views on rape jokes than actually sharing the article; the article which you hid behind spoiler blocks, before going right back to the rape joke subject.

You may not have done it consciously, but that's how it comes across.

The article is no longer in spoiler blocks. And I bet people would've made rape jokes if I didn't mention the fact that I don't want them here.

Avatar image for thekillerklok
#37 Posted by Thekillerklok (10054 posts) - - Show Bio
@mylittlefascist said:

Look, it's a horrible thing that happened to your friend, and I'm very sorry she had to go through such an ordeal.

With that in mind, you kind of created the discussion about rape jokes yourself the moment you brought it up and dedicated an entire paragraph to it in your OP. Had you not done that, the subject would have likely not come up at all.

It was extremely distracting by itself itself and Heroup's post only highlights this. His post was intended to be supportive, yet 90% of it was a rant about rape jokes.

With the way you structured the OP really makes it seem like you cared more about preaching your views on rape jokes than actually sharing the article; the article which you hid behind spoiler blocks, before going right back to the rape joke subject.

You may not have done it consciously, but that's how it comes across.

The article is no longer in spoiler blocks. And I bet people would've made rape jokes if I didn't mention the fact that I don't want them here.

Well I mean... why would they?

and you do realize the usual result of telling someone not to push the big red button right? I mean you got to right?

Avatar image for yousufkhan1212
#38 Edited by YousufKhan1212 (2265 posts) - - Show Bio

@thekillerklok: Because this site is crawling with users that are immature enough to make them.

Avatar image for purpleperson
#39 Posted by PurplePerson (908 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah, that’s horrible. Needless to say there should never be any blame placed on the victim in this scenario. Just a shame that the thread was derailed so quickly.

Avatar image for yousufkhan1212
#40 Posted by YousufKhan1212 (2265 posts) - - Show Bio

@purpleperson: To be fair, some of the responses that I got were good, so I am satisfied that I have been able to spread Jessica’s testimony to at least some extent, so more people have read it. Jessica is a really dear friend to me, I’m never going to see her again, but I want to make her happy in some shape or form.

Avatar image for heroup2112
#41 Posted by HeroUp2112 (18329 posts) - - Show Bio

@sc said:
@mylittlefascist said:
@heroup2112 said:

This is a horrible thing to happen to somebody and I'm glad she's gotten to a healthy place about it. On the other topic, I've seen these weak ass rape jokes and the excuse "you can't censor me" and "nothing is off limits for comedy" crap. Maybe so, maybe no, but how about you be a grown up human being and have a LITTLE sensitivity and responsibility and censor your own damn self. These are people who've been through serious, horrific trauma and sometimes worse, and shouldn't be the punchline of a joke.

Are you ALLOWED to make your dumb ass jokes about them (and omg so much worse, child molestation)? Yes. Are you a gigantic asshole when you do? You'd better believe it.

I don't really want to turn this into a discussion, but... this is a severe misrepresentation of things. Rape jokes are not about making fun of victims. The victims are not the "punchline of the joke".

Rape jokes are about highlighting and bringing attention to the absurdity of the situation.

Humor is a coping mechanism. It is a way for the mind to process situations that are stressful and uncomfortable to confront and deal with. If you don't confront and deal with these types of things, you give it power over you. The only way to cope with a past trauma is to actually confront it. That's why help groups are all about sharing stories and talking about the experience. By applying humor to a situation, it becomes easier to talk about. If you shy away from anything and everything that reminds you of the experience, then you are in fact, hindering your own recovery.

I agree with you, but I'd say its all about context. Some people are better with nuance, timing, and reading the social temperature of a room. Not all rape jokes are about making fun of victims, but as heroup suggests, there is a lot of humor and comedy that punches down at targets, and is defended under the premise of being above such ethical considerations. Sometimes not even really defended under the premise of being above such ethics, but defended against criticisms as well. Which is ironic.

Granted humor/comedy involves a lot of subjective elements, and there are some who think some topics, should be completely off topics, no matter the situation or context, but I don't think thats what heroup is suggesting (I could be wrong) and I think you make your points well too, I agree with them generally. All my funniest friends have in fact been raped. Humor is an amazing coping mechanism, and I myself have joked about rape before... granted, it was usually by satirizing others attempts at making edgy rape jokes that fell extremely flat... but still... but and I'd assume most people would agree with me, if we are in a situation where we find out a stranger has been raped, we probably wouldn't make a dumb edgy rape joke... and even if we were skilled enough to make a classy intelligent rape joke, ehh... contextually might not be the best course of behavior. Unless you were incredible at reading people and could tell thats actually what would comfort the person the most in that moment but I am spending too much time on this point.

I think the main point I want to emphasize on, is that its a context sensitive issue. Some people can't deliver such material properly, but some probably still do it anyway, because its edgy and "Anti PC" and attracts/appeals to a certain crowd. Not that that is inherently wrong either, its a bigger conversation.

I would have to say there are very, very few instances where "humor" would be helpful or warranted in this case. Yes I suppose with the appropriate nuance and comedic skill it MIGHT help. I can't think of HOW at the moment but I will admit the concept seems valid, if tenuously.

While I agree that people need to discuss and process their emotions and discuss their trauma, addressing the absurdity of the situation is almost certainly not a good way to go in the VAST majority of situations. All the comedians I have seen (who may or may not have otherwise been funny) have used rape and child molestation jokes to seem edgy or for shock value. I don't know who finds these things funny but I don't want to know them.

Avatar image for sc
#42 Posted by SC (18159 posts) - - Show Bio

@yousufkhan1212: Having a great support network to help with emotional and mental needs is important, I am glad your friend has that, and I am glad we have people like you who wish to extend that support network as wide as you can to include strangers as well (with volunteering and work) I wish you luck!

The mind and motivations of rapists are... complicated, its still an ongoing discussion too, because there can be so many different scenarios and examples that require their own context, I still try to keep up when I can, and in a lot of countries the definitions (legal) can be modified and then studies will have to be updated. I think my biggest gripe, is that rape as portrayed by media, often creates a misleading picture. It can perpetuate myths and falsehoods, and sometimes unintentionally blame a rape victim/survivor, either subtly or blatantly. Its a horrifying topic to learn about, and probably why it isn't taught at school (at least it wasn't when I was at school) but I think its important we know about such topics as a society to help prevent it and also to be a better support network, to those who experience.

Oh yeah thats cool, about survivor, I sometimes use the terms at once, or together, or depending on the circumstance, I'll use whatever term accommodates a person, for their particular comfort. I understand.

Thank you for your reply!

Moderator
Avatar image for mylittlefascist
#43 Posted by MyLittleFascist (31727 posts) - - Show Bio

While I agree that people need to discuss and process their emotions and discuss their trauma, addressing the absurdity of the situation is almost certainly not a good way to go in the VAST majority of situations. All the comedians I have seen (who may or may not have otherwise been funny) have used rape and child molestation jokes to seem edgy or for shock value. I don't know who finds these things funny but I don't want to know them.

Wait, so.. If a rapist says it's the victim's fault because she was "being a tease", the absurdity of such a claim shouldn't be addressed?

Noting that situation is "absurd" as in "unreasonable" and "shouldn't have happened" is bad?

Klok's post linked several comedians who used rape jokes in a tasteful way, while also criticizing the very logic being employed by you and the OP in this very thread

Your last sentence is just plain judgmental. I'm sorry, but that's what it is.

Avatar image for one_upper
#44 Edited by one_upper (1224 posts) - - Show Bio

@mylittlefascist: Meh, I don't think anyone can make blanket assumptions about the origins, motivations, or intentions of jokes about rape, or any other horrific topic. Some may use dark humor in the way you suggest, but I would also suggest many make such jokes without that intention, or without any true sense of the horror they are laughing at. It is reality that there are jokes that do trivialize rape. Be conscientious is really what it comes down to.

Avatar image for sc
#45 Posted by SC (18159 posts) - - Show Bio

Not to misrepresent you, because I don't claim to know your intention, but It seems to your point was Rape can't be joked about ever because anecdote. In which case I respectfully have to disagree.

Life is suffering, life if also finite, humor let's one get a bit of joy out of suffering, The path to hell is paved with good intentions, and I can't abide by policing freedoms based on personal truths and anecdotes.

Think about it this way? Of all the ways any of us can choose to address this thread, why couldn't (this response above) have been your first method/approach?

Seeking clarification? Some people chose to employ sympathy or empathy... relate their own personal experiences with OP, some people did that but offered some broader general discussion around humor as a coping mechanism too, or talked about societal pressures, and attitudes around rape, and potential ways to address misconceptions.

Why did you choose a type of defiance to OP? Over the assumption that they are trying to police freedoms based on their personal experiences? In general, I agree with your latter sentences, especially with humor, and peoples intentions, and people trying to dictate the freedom of others based on their own experiences... but what were your intentions here? Seek clarification? Wouldn't it have been better to just ask OP? Defend the general idea of humor? Its possible to that without purposefully finding a loophole to exploit, thats specifically defiant of OP's wishes? To defend great freedoms? Is OP really actually issuing a threat to them?

OP seems like a nice person, who had a friend experience something really horrible, nowhere in your assumptions, did you also assume a need for a little bit of empathy/sympathy and maybe seek clarification first? As opposed to assuming OP is attacking freedoms and your own personal ability to make jokes as you please?

Moderator
Avatar image for mylittlefascist
#46 Edited by MyLittleFascist (31727 posts) - - Show Bio

@one_upper said:

@mylittlefascist: Meh, I don't think anyone can make blanket assumptions about the origins, motivations, or intentions of jokes about rape, or any other horrific topic. Some may use dark humor in the way you suggest, but I would also suggest many make such jokes without that intention, or without any true sense of the horror they are laughing at.

And they also have little understanding of what makes those types of jokes funny in the first place. They are just trying to be edgy and shocking.

Either way. I'm not the one making blanket assumptions regarding dark humor, because I'm not the one saying "rape jokes are always bad" or implying that all the people who make them or find them funny are immature or "assholes".

Avatar image for heroup2112
#47 Posted by HeroUp2112 (18329 posts) - - Show Bio

@heroup2112 said:

While I agree that people need to discuss and process their emotions and discuss their trauma, addressing the absurdity of the situation is almost certainly not a good way to go in the VAST majority of situations. All the comedians I have seen (who may or may not have otherwise been funny) have used rape and child molestation jokes to seem edgy or for shock value. I don't know who finds these things funny but I don't want to know them.

Wait, so.. If a rapist says it's the victim's fault because she was "being a tease", the absurdity of such a claim shouldn't be addressed?

Noting that situation is "absurd" as in "unreasonable" and "shouldn't have happened" is bad?

Klok's post linked several comedians who used rape jokes in a tasteful way, while also criticizing the very logic being employed by you and the OP in this very thread

Your last sentence is just plain judgmental. I'm sorry, but that's what it is.

I guess I need to take a look at Klok's post. Yes, the situation IS absurd, and making a joke about what an asshole a rapist is is one thing, making a joke about raping, or someone being raped (as more than a small few do) is not.

I don't care if it's judgemental.

Avatar image for one_upper
#48 Posted by one_upper (1224 posts) - - Show Bio

There should be no laws or formal rules about whether you can make rape jokes, but you should always use your discretion when joking about such a topic. Know the room, don't be a jerk.

Avatar image for heroup2112
#49 Edited by HeroUp2112 (18329 posts) - - Show Bio

@heroup2112 said:
@mylittlefascist said:
@heroup2112 said:

While I agree that people need to discuss and process their emotions and discuss their trauma, addressing the absurdity of the situation is almost certainly not a good way to go in the VAST majority of situations. All the comedians I have seen (who may or may not have otherwise been funny) have used rape and child molestation jokes to seem edgy or for shock value. I don't know who finds these things funny but I don't want to know them.

Wait, so.. If a rapist says it's the victim's fault because she was "being a tease", the absurdity of such a claim shouldn't be addressed?

Noting that situation is "absurd" as in "unreasonable" and "shouldn't have happened" is bad?

Klok's post linked several comedians who used rape jokes in a tasteful way, while also criticizing the very logic being employed by you and the OP in this very thread

Your last sentence is just plain judgmental. I'm sorry, but that's what it is.

I guess I need to take a look at Klok's post. Yes, the situation IS absurd, and making a joke about what an asshole a rapist is is one thing, making a joke about raping, or someone being raped (as more than a small few do) is not.

I don't care if it's judgemental.

Okay...as to Klok's links (I didn't notice they were links)

The Carlin one is disgusting.

It's kind of s stretch to call "If I Were Gay" a rape anything.

The Jim Jeffries (Who I hate but that's besides the point) is on the line a little but makes a good point about nuance, was more of a religious joke using the topic (though he could probably have used a better one) to make a point of his view of God.

The Tenacious D one was stupid, disgusting and I have no idea why anyone would find that funny.

Okay, you've got me on the Louis CK one is actually the perfect example of the absurdity thing you're talking about (though I will note that it is NOT about raping someone or someone BEING raped). It's using the concept to illustrate the absurdity of a sexual incongruity in certain peoples' behavior.

I will say AGAIN however that I support their RIGHT to say such crappy things in their acts, music, videos, or movies but I still have the right to think people who do what I described are assholes. If that's judgemental then I'm judgemental; however I'm not without an understanding of absurdity and nuance.

Avatar image for sc
#50 Posted by SC (18159 posts) - - Show Bio

I would have to say there are very, very few instances where "humor" would be helpful or warranted in this case. Yes I suppose with the appropriate nuance and comedic skill it MIGHT help. I can't think of HOW at the moment but I will admit the concept seems valid, if tenuously.

While I agree that people need to discuss and process their emotions and discuss their trauma, addressing the absurdity of the situation is almost certainly not a good way to go in the VAST majority of situations. All the comedians I have seen (who may or may not have otherwise been funny) have used rape and child molestation jokes to seem edgy or for shock value. I don't know who finds these things funny but I don't want to know them.

To be more transparent, I am kind of attempting to be the bridge between yourself and MyLittleFascist. I was trying to do that lil trick, where I actually (do sincerely) agree with a lot of what you are both saying, and then trying to find common ground and understanding somewhere in the middle (because I sincerely think it exists between you)

Even though some of us are talking about general hypotheticals, rather than actual specifics (save for perhaps past personal experiences) MyLittleFascist seems a bit more specific, and focused on individuals agency and transparency. The ability for expression without being judged, guilted, or shamed, which can be extremely important for people in a tough situation, including rape survivors/victims. Also in general. Their examples are more focused on individuals who experience hardships personally. There is also the assumption of good faith/conscientiousness. Which questions whether we should so readily sacrifice that because some individuals aren't as funny/necessarily acting conscientiously (some of this is my interpretation).

Where as you are being a bit broader and general for the most part, emphasizing tact, comfort, carefulness, delicacy, discretion. Then your examples are focused on attempts by comedians at humor failing, and the majority of attempts/comedians for the most part failing and existing for poor superficial reasons.

So I legitimately don't really think you guys disagree with each other too much, more that you are addressing different issues loosely related to each other, from different angles. I mean, I think I agree with you both generally. I agree with you, most attempts I see at humor around rape and child molestation aren't funny, and I also think a lot of the comedians who attempt such humor, often aren't doing it for comedy or for ethical reasons, rather they are looking for a specific audience that they can find a niche in. I don't think its impossible though to make a witty joke or humorous observation about rape though, just generally, the times i find it most successful, are when its victims who are being self deprecating or bonding with someone else who has experienced a similar trauma.

Oh and I watched one of the jokes from a link above, for example. It wasn't really a rape joke, it was a joke about the idea of God working in mysterious ways, and how that is a poor excuse (to the comedian) and how that can be exploited by people to do horrible things, like rape. Its potentially a semantical issue involving joke structure, its not really offensive, as far as the inclusion of rape. The example could be anything, its only brought up vaguely and after anthropomorphizing God as being a jerk, who uses "mysterious ways" as an excuse, and then a person attempting to use as an excuse. The joke was actually a little tame really. I did like the comedians use of timing though and delivery techniques. The most insulting/offensive part of it was oversimplifying some religious ideas, but I don't think that was actually the goal of the comedian or his actual theological position, and I imagine some Deists could find it amusing too.

Moderator