Removal of Confederate Statues Discussion.

Simple question.Do you agree with removal of confederate statues in America? Or do you think they should remain standing?

Why did we have a statue of a traitor to our country in the first place?

Glad it's gone.

I only have one question. Why now?

Statues of Confederate traitors shouldn't be allowed to stand out in public, especially on Government property. However, they definitely shouldn't be destroyed. Put them in museums.

I live in Mississippi, breeding ground of racism and hate for pretty much anyone not exactly like yourself.

Trying to take down confederate statues and things will cause a riot. Simply because there are plenty of people who live here that are so ignorantly racist that it is accepted as truth

Ex.

1. Our high school biology teacher actually taught that men have 1 less rib than women do because mam gave up 1 rib to create women as it said in the bible.

2. Our high school health teacher/coach actually believed and taught that black people have an extra muscle in each leg, that is why they are faster...

3. In the state of Mississippi, along with 14 other states, information in history texts books, ARE NOT REQUIRED TO BE ACCURATE.

In the 8th grade history books for the state they have a document with a picture of the actual document that was signed for the south to succeed, however it is completely fake. It talks about supplies and votes being uneven against the south.

It is total bullshit.

I have read the actual papers of succession and it is entirely about how Mississippi was going to war to keep their slaves because and I quote ,"none but the black race can bear the heat of the tropical sun" and how slavery is a part of the state and how dare the north try to preach "Negro equality"

4. I have heard multiple preachers in the area give sermons on how the races are different and that black k people are inferior because they are disendents of Noah's son who turned his back and was burnt because of it and all black people are cursed.

5. When I was in high school the KKK had open recruiting drives, AT THE SCHOOL GYM. With banners and everything.

I say rip it all down, tell the truth about the past, and screw the racist.

Mixed feelings about this.

You wouldn't have a statue of Hitler.

Those statues are at best monuments to traitors, that being said they they shouldn't be destroyed. They should be placed in an american history museum where people can go to learn about the civil war.

No, just put cameras in their eyes, and then arrest people who like to make out with the statues when they think no one is watching. However… only, do this with Confederate Statues and definitely do not do this to Ronald Mcdonald statues that are sometimes outside McDonalds restaurants, because I… uh, I mean, people… are okay to kiss and make out with inanimate Ronald McDonald statues, at night, in the cover of darkness, without being judged by society.

Might also pay to put some cameras on the feet, above the posterior, and a few other locations, you know, FYI TBH MFW you know.

Get rid of them. If people want to know the history they can pick up a book.

@misterwhisper: Jesus that's horrific, feel sorry for any people of colour living there

Make a museum for confederate history, put them all there.

They're traitors. They don't deserve statues.

Unfortunately, is not a matter of defending history, is the matter of getting rid of a racist symbol. Confederate flags and members are used to represent bigotry by hateful groups like the KKK, Nazi and white supremacist. This is why statues like Robert E Lee need to be taken down. While is true Robert E Lee wanted the union to stay together and only fought for the South since it was his homeland, people using him as a symbol of hate with Nazi salute.

Getting rid of history part is just a BS excuse. It is great to remembered history, but that does not mean we should promote or glorify the worst part of history. Granted I would be okay with it just being put in a museum or something as a compromised. People will still learn about the civil war and its impact and there are worse things happening to censored history that unfortunately, the far right doesn't care.

I simply don't care. They can be left up if people wanted to. It doesn't matter to me.

Nice false analogy. I bet you dont know jack shit about the person who is represented in the statue.

The fact he was a confederate was probably only a minor part of the reason he was there.

I'm a brit so I don't have a dog in this fight but I read that some of these statues where put up when the Jim Crow laws where in effect. That's disgusting. It's a damn travesty it's taken this long to tear them down. What made it real was Barbara Lee who literally serves in congress having to walk past these statues in Washington. Like seriously guys, that's a bit messed up.

@misterwhisper: Jesus Christ, that's terrible. I thought it was all exaggerated, but Mississippi is actually like that?

Can't speak for the entire state but those happened just in my home town.

@the_stegman: the Union was just as bad as the south back then. We are all traitors to Great Britain, however it was justified, just as the civil war.

They should remain. I don't care about the politics of those statues, what I care about is that they are pieces of art and pieces of history.

When it comes to taking down Confederate flags, or changing the names of roads named after Confederate generals, I really don't give a crap. That stuff doesn't matter. But statues are pieces of art and pieces of history, they should be kept standing.

Well.. some people do.

But they're weird.

So the Union had slavery? Never knew that

I guess they should've left that Saddam Hussein statue up too. A piece of history.

We may be "traitors" to Britain, but we didn't attack them, and cause one of the most gruesome wars in history. And you don't see statues of George Washington in British Universities do you? And the Revolutionary war wasn't to protect the rights of an entire race, that had been enslaved.

Actually, I think they should. At the bare minimum, it should be put in a museum.

Also, I think you're using massive false equivalency. I'm not one of those "The South will rise again!" nutjobs like those idiots in Charlettseville, but you cannot possibly believe that Robert E. Lee and Jefferson Davis were as bad as Suddam Hussein.

Okay, I think your taking false equivalency to the extreme. I'm not one of those "The South will rise again!" nutjobs like the guys in Charloetsvile, but you cannot possibly believe that Robert E. Lee and Jefferson Davis were as bad as a man who killed 11 million of his own people and started a World War that killed between 50 and 70 million.

Why should they leave it in the middle of the University?

Why would you want a bad person in the middle of a place for learning?

@necronn-: the civil war wasn't for that either at the time.

They Should Take Down All The Confederate Statutes And Replace Them With New Statues Of...

Beetlejuice, Ron Jeremy, Vincent Price, Jules Winnfield and Bozo The Clown

For me, the answer should be obvious although I do understand the resistance some are feeling about taking down these statues. Change is hard, even when it's right. Placing them in areas which highlight the history of who these individuals are and their place in these events make much more sense to me, rather than places like in front of government buildings and in parks which are typically for celebration and honour. It always felt off to me, as a visitor from another country. I can't imagine what it feels as an actual citizen.

Last weekend, the town I live in had its annual war reenactment at the location where my country had its bloodiest battle on domestic land. Lots of people show up, get dressed in British and Union soldier get ups and then traipse everywhere, saying, "Down with the British!" and other such things. Kinda...jarring. Especially since this is where so many British soldiers died, defending a country which would soon be determined as Canada. A celebration of thousands and thousands of soldiers' deaths, at a battle that ultimately would mean nothing since the Union soldiers went back across the river to become the United States of America. It's hard for me to understand why this event takes place. What should be a sombre occasion is actually the opposite. The American patriotism is palpable, the larger segment of the people participating in this annual event are American. Here they are, in my country, invited by my country, to reenact one of the worst moments of its history for the sake of...well, the sake of what, actually? For the sake of history? Of when they defeated the British? And we, this town of mine, my province, my country, actually PAYs for this? Encourages this? For TOURISM? It's utterly mind blowing. Even my American friends shake their heads at the spectacle. It's like those reenactments you see the States throwing, but instead of people playing both sides and celebrating their victory at becoming their own country, they get to play on the "enemy's" land and claim victory all over again. And the enemy (us) are like "YAY, YOU WON!!" and "WOOHOO, GOOD FOR YOU!" which is just horrifying. This, on the actual ground where the blood of the soldiers who helped forge my country held strong for as long as they could, was spilled. Something is getting confused in the celebrating. Something. Yet, my fellow townspeople would lose their damn minds if this event was stopped. This is HERITAGE. HISTORY. This is just the way it's always been, you see. You can't fool around with tradition! Right?

Right.

Anyway, these statues were mostly put up at a time when the United States were grappling with their segregation laws and were mostly an attempt to assuage the sentiments of Americans who were angry in response. It was wrong to do then, but I get why they did it. Not to say it shouldn't be walked back. Getting rid of these statues entirely (outside of ensuring they're aren't erased from history) has to be done. Just easier said.

I just don't get why a war that ended most than 150 years ago is still a political thing today. Whether you're on the "South will rise again!" side or the "Ban all Confederate flags" side, you're both wasting your time on a non-issue. Fact is, the Civil War ended a long time ago; neo-Confederates need to accept the fact that they lost, and SJWs need to accept the fact that they already won, and both sides should just move on and do something useful with their lives.

It's amazing how many people complain about "traitors", yet we're a nation built on deceiving and lying in order to get our ways. Sigh.

So we'll put them in a museum about Confederate history. If it interests someone enough, that's easily accessible enough and does a lot more than a simple plaque if a dosent is around to explain these sorts of things.

The thing is, you're right. People should just accept the fact the war is over and done with, but humans are stupid, mob mentality is a pain, and some people just want to fight. Asking people like that to calm down and be logical people is arguably just as pointless as what they're doing.

True. I'd have no problem if they were in a museum. As long as they are visible to the public, I don't care.

I simply go not get why a war that ended so long ago is such a major issue today. Some people have trouble admitting the war was lost, others have trouble understanding that they already won.

Consider this though. Would people have issues "understanding that they already won" if people had trouble admitting they lost? One of these wouldn't exist without the other.

True. But still, they're fighting a useless cause. I think that all those "The South will rise again!" people are just plain stupid, but I don't see why they're worth fighting against, not when there are way worse things going on in the world every day. I live in Georgia, and I've actually met some of those people, and trust me, they're not worth your time or your effort.

Why did they erect these statues in the first place? to honor these people? to intentionally offend and shame some people? an art expression? I think that should be the focus of the discussion, and decisions should be made based on the context of their creations.

Else they would start a censorship trend where it is acceptable to ban something just because some people with insecurities may find it offensive.

I mean, for example, there are people who associates America with the genocide of native americans, or imperialistic capitalism, or the atrocities of the Hiroshima/Nagasaki, Vietnam/Afghanistan/Iraq War... should they start banning the US flag, Mount Rushmore, Washington Monument, etc from public because some minority groups find those things offensive?

Thats like sanitizing the entire society into a safe space/echo chamber that promotes "safe" ideologies.

Robert E Lee was an abolitionist who would've served on the side of the Union had his home state (Virginia) not joined the secessionists. He was the literal definition of a patriot, fighting against his ideals so that his home might be safe. When the confederates lost the war he more or less said "good". This man fought in many historically important battles like Gettysburg. Does it not make sense why there would be a statue of him?

This sounds good to me.

I actually went to a public school named after Robert E. Lee, I wouldn't mind them changing the name.

LOL at those that think this is black and white. It's history. Why don't we just tear down every picture of Robert E. Lee too? Remove every single image of the swastika or Confederate flag so people don't get offended during history lessons or while on the internet. Hell, let's just not even teach or talk about the Confederacy at all. That way no one will get offended or be able to learn facts. Like the fact that Lee was actually opposed to slavery and had no slaves himself.

Good point

@asgardianbrony: Ah yes they tore down statues because they didn't have their own that's what it sounds like you implied.

Unfortunately, Robert E Lee is closely associated with the Confederate. Which while the real Confederate was not outright racist (which to be fair at the time most people were racist at both sides), stupid bigotry people use the Confederate to promote their stupid bigotry ways. So because of stupid racist people, we can't have our statue because it is, unfortunately, being used as a symbol of racism instead of fighting for your country with pride. I mean Robert E Lee leadership is the main reason why the South was able to hold on for so long and only fought because he wanted to fight for his home.

I mean people can say that people are protecting it for history sake, but seeing videos of protesters makes it hard for me to believe that.