Religion… What do you think?

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Iron_Tiger

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SpareHeadOne

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Aliens discovered at last. They kind of look like swamp thing and killer croc. And they speak by clicking, clapping and stomping.

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/www.space.com/amp/41882-nasa-tess-first-exoplanet-evaporating-super-earth.html

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@forgotblobfish:

Clickety clap clap

Clappity stomp

Stomp stomp clap Stomp stomp clap Stomp stomp clap Stomp stomp clap we will we will rock you 🎸

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ForgotBlobfish

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@spareheadone: Refer to what I said on the politics thread. :). Seriously. Not being sarcastic

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dshipp17

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#27806  Edited By dshipp17

@king_saturn:

“What the heck are you talking about ? The point I made about GOD restoring a limb in real time was about the strongest evidence for GOD as I stated earlier. I did not take anything from an Atheist website. I do not even know why this is relevant to this discussion anyways. Uh ? I have been saying for multiple posts now that the strongest evidence for GOD would be GOD healing someone in real time and it being recorded and the best example of a healing in real time would be someone having a limb restored and it being recorded. It's better than essentially any miracle of a person getting better from an Internal Sickness as these can and have been explained away in secular discussions.”

You say so many things here demonstrating that you're not really listening. I've repeatedly given a number of reasons as to why your example is just irrelevant. While that would be strong evidence to behold, thousands of examples of strong evidence is produced all the time that people can behold and functions for the dynamics of the number of people converting to Christianity.

The secular community has not explained anything away anything of the sort, at all. They speculate, for sure, but, they haven't actually explained anything away that is anything of the sort mentioned. Thus, you're not listening, being bent on your irrelevant example. That was the point of my last post. For example, the episode, “It's Supernatural” and the man being healed right before the eyes of the congregation; here, we have proximity and timing of God's work in action; helping to back this up, are thousands of other similar examples, where you try to slitter away and frame such as just an isolated, one time event. In this description we have two examples, one, which cannot be easily explained away, by any means, at all, already, and attributed to something other than the power of God, and a host of other examples that similarly cannot be explained away from it being the healing power of God, where the combined effects makes it exponentially more difficult to try to attribute the events to something other than the healing power of God acting on behalf of the prayers from His Christian flock. As I explained, something like a spontaneous remission is extremely rare; and, then, the odds are even more against a spontaneous remission being the case, where such a rare event would have had to occur with spectacular timing during an alter call, where spontaneous remissions are otherwise a regular occurrence during alter calls, where these events usually results in full remissions or cures, where medical treatments generally produce only partial remissions, and where spontaneous remissions during alter calls have been occurring long before there even was any possible type of medical treatment even available; and, then, even less likely during the thousands of other alter calls, where the only common variable are praying Christians following the formula laid out in the New Testament for God's intervention.

With so much persuasive evidence, your example of being unaware of an occasion that God regrew a lost limb is just so irrelevant, where you haven't even done an exhaustive search to determine whether or not your presumption is even true. The only issue would not be related to whether or not God is performing healing miracles, which He clearly is, along with other kinds of miracles, not to mention, the issue would be a reason why God hasn't performed the specific type of healing miracle to you point, but which is based completely on your spiteful speculation that hasn't been researched. If your question/suspicion were indeed the case, the only question would be: why God hasn't performed this one particular type of miraculous healing not rather or not He's healing, at all, which would be want you're more after, where a reader could misconstrue the two and make conclusions about the latter; and, that's not even an issue outside of speculation, as you have not even validate your presumptuous assertion, independently.

Ironically, you somehow just stumbled upon one of the most recycled punchlines and jokes from atheistic websites or that community, if I were to really believe your claim that you didn't know and get it from there, where, frankly, you haven't even put in a rudimentary level of research to back your assertion. While you spitefully hope it's true, that doesn't negate or remove the clear likelihood that God works on behalf of His praying Christian flock.

“No, you missed the point. The point was not whether or not a person really did get better from GOD healing them from an internal sickness, it's whether or not if these examples could be explained away by other means such as Medical Science. In this case, we know that some people do get better from internal sickness from Medical Science and this can be used to explain away essentially any example of a person getting better from an internal sickness via the power of GOD through prayer as there are many variables that can go into why that person got better outside of GOD's healing power or at least it could be explained as such but like I said, how the heck would you be able to explain away someone on real time recording having a limb restored through the power of GOD via prayer ? That would be much harder to dismiss away. I have point this out over and over again.”

Here, you clearly didn't pick up where I said that God's intervention usually involves the cases where a full remission or cure has occurred; but, a medical treatment usually always results in a partial remission.

Sure, medical treatment does help people recover from sicknesses, but, those aren't the specific examples that involve the healing powers of God (e.g. in our exchange, I've directed you to three examples, but, you're lost with people going to get help from a doctor for a sickness; you haven't actually divided anything at all for yourself to address my points). I presented an example, or, several, that sorted the two. Jiving the workings of medical treatment has not been sorted with the specific examples that involved the healing powers of God, as you'd like to have it. Here, you're talking about two separate issues but in such a way that a reader who wants to agree with you could conflate the two separate issues. While you didn't see the difference, I've clearly separated the examples involving the healing powers of God from just any random medical visit that resulted in a successful treatment, even, where, usually, it's a partial remission. On this extra iteration, it's actually you who has the ball in his court but can't actually directly retort to my points with specifics. You're creating a confusion for yourself by being unwilling to notice my points, comprehensively, and by trying to proceed with your irrelevant point of someone that you speculate hasn't been healed by God from a lost limb.

“I don't even know where you are going here. Gravity is something that has been studied extensively we have a good idea how it works and how to measure it. You can't really do that with GOD at least not study good himself extensively as you can Gravity as the fullness of GOD is not available to us to understand, probably could not understand GOD's fullness anyways. No, we was speaking about the best evidence for GOD. I brought up that the best evidence for GOD would be GOD healing someone in real time and the event being recorded. You gave what you thought was examples of GOD healing someone in real time. Then I said GOD restoring a limb in real time would be the stronger evidence because it would be harder to explain away compared to GOD restoring someone from a internal sickness which could be explained away by other means including Medical Science helps get the person better or the person just got better over time. I don't think you can compare the study of Gravity to studying the supposed miracles of GOD as Gravity is more of a constant that can be studied directly. The miracles of GOD are somewhat inconsistent as data detailing each event can be problematic.”

In order to show your bias, you shifted from something that I said in my last post and attributed something that I didn't say to me to make it seemingly easier for you to address. In the case of gravity, what we've studied is the affect of gravity and formulated a number of calculations around it (e.g. in Newton's equation, gravity is represented by a universal constant G; the number of G was calculated/created around other physical phenomena and motions that we know of); from this equation, we put a number or measurement around the affects of gravity on things around it; but, gravity, itself, is still largely a mystery. In my explanation, I did the same thing with the works of God by pointing out the repetitive nature of it; but, this doesn't explain how God does His miracles nor isn't it really necessary to make the point that God performs miracles repetitively and often for praying Christians so as to make it pretty much impossible to try to dismiss Him as ever being a factor, which is something that you seem to speculate has been possible; however, I look at it as a state of denial that's starting to make you look silly in your feverish way to try and save face.

No, what you did was hang on to your speculation that no one has ever received a new limb from God, due to prayers, and framed it as this best evidence, which is really something that you prefer, as you still want to take a punchline or joke seriously; but, I pointed put examples of evidence of God's healing power; I pointed out that these 3 examples are 3 among nearly innumerable other available examples; and, I'm also the recipient of many examples of God's intervention, even one more more within the past few hours that had a consoling effect on me, following a prayer; essentially, it's harder for you to relate to my perspective, since you're never experienced some type of interaction from God on your behalf from the way things sound, based on how you're describing things in an effect to reduce God from our reality; but, as I explained to other, this doesn't negate my experiences and the personal experiences of many others; it only means that God has chosen not to work on your behalf as an intelligent Person/Entity for whatever reason(s), where He knows you deeply as a person.

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dshipp17

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Mark 14:66-72:

And as Peter was beneath in the palace, there cometh one of the maids of the high priest:

67 And when she saw Peter warming himself, she looked upon him, and said, And thou also wast with Jesus of Nazareth.

68 But he denied, saying, I know not, neither understand I what thou sayest. And he went out into the porch; and the cock crew.

69 And a maid saw him again, and began to say to them that stood by, This is one of them.

70 And he denied it again. And a little after, they that stood by said again to Peter, Surely thou art one of them: for thou art a Galilaean, and thy speech agreeth thereto.

71 But he began to curse and to swear, saying, I know not this man of whom ye speak.

72 And the second time the cock crew. And Peter called to mind the word that Jesus said unto him, Before the cock crow twice, thou shalt deny me thrice. And when he thought thereon, he wept.

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ForgotBlobfish

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@dshipp17: Show me the video of the healing limbs

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ForgotBlobfish

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Then I will listen

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ForgotBlobfish

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Dude, did you just say "G is in the universal equation!" You absolute preschool student. G is a variable where you choose what it means. it could be A of Z get abette

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dshipp17

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#27811  Edited By dshipp17

@forgotblobfish said:

Dude, did you just say "G is in the universal equation!" You absolute preschool student. G is a variable where you choose what it means. it could be A of Z get abette

Are you sure? What equation are you referring to? I said Newton's equation. That's beside the point in the overall context of our discussion.

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dshipp17

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#27812  Edited By dshipp17
@forgotblobfish said:

@dshipp17: Show me the video of the healing limbs

This isn't really important in our overall discussion. Read more or you can shortchange yourself. If you're locked on this and it's stopped your learning curve, you might want to mature a little bit for these types of discussions.

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King Saturn

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@dshipp17 said:

@king_saturn:

“What the heck are you talking about ? The point I made about GOD restoring a limb in real time was about the strongest evidence for GOD as I stated earlier. I did not take anything from an Atheist website. I do not even know why this is relevant to this discussion anyways. Uh ? I have been saying for multiple posts now that the strongest evidence for GOD would be GOD healing someone in real time and it being recorded and the best example of a healing in real time would be someone having a limb restored and it being recorded. It's better than essentially any miracle of a person getting better from an Internal Sickness as these can and have been explained away in secular discussions.”

You say so many things here demonstrating that you're not really listening. I've repeatedly given a number of reasons as to why your example is just irrelevant. While that would be strong evidence to behold, thousands of examples of strong evidence is produced all the time that people can behold and functions for the dynamics of the number of people converting to Christianity.

The secular community has not explained anything away anything of the sort, at all. They speculate, for sure, but, they haven't actually explained anything away that is anything of the sort mentioned. Thus, you're not listening, being bent on your irrelevant example. That was the point of my last post. For example, the episode, “It's Supernatural” and the man being healed right before the eyes of the congregation; here, we have proximity and timing of God's work in action; helping to back this up, are thousands of other similar examples, where you try to slitter away and frame such as just an isolated, one time event. In this description we have two examples, one, which cannot be easily explained away, by any means, at all, already, and attributed to something other than the power of God, and a host of other examples that similarly cannot be explained away from it being the healing power of God, where the combined effects makes it exponentially more difficult to try to attribute the events to something other than the healing power of God acting on behalf of the prayers from His Christian flock. As I explained, something like a spontaneous remission is extremely rare; and, then, the odds are even more against a spontaneous remission being the case, where such a rare event would have had to occur with spectacular timing during an alter call, where spontaneous remissions are otherwise a regular occurrence during alter calls, where these events usually results in full remissions or cures, where medical treatments generally produce only partial remissions, and where spontaneous remissions during alter calls have been occurring long before there even was any possible type of medical treatment even available; and, then, even less likely during the thousands of other alter calls, where the only common variable are praying Christians following the formula laid out in the New Testament for God's intervention.

With so much persuasive evidence, your example of being unaware of an occasion that God regrew a lost limb is just so irrelevant, where you haven't even done an exhaustive search to determine whether or not your presumption is even true. The only issue would not be related to whether or not God is performing healing miracles, which He clearly is, along with other kinds of miracles, not to mention, the issue would be a reason why God hasn't performed the specific type of healing miracle to you point, but which is based completely on your spiteful speculation that hasn't been researched. If your question/suspicion were indeed the case, the only question would be: why God hasn't performed this one particular type of miraculous healing not rather or not He's healing, at all, which would be want you're more after, where a reader could misconstrue the two and make conclusions about the latter; and, that's not even an issue outside of speculation, as you have not even validate your presumptuous assertion, independently.

Ironically, you somehow just stumbled upon one of the most recycled punchlines and jokes from atheistic websites or that community, if I were to really believe your claim that you didn't know and get it from there, where, frankly, you haven't even put in a rudimentary level of research to back your assertion. While you spitefully hope it's true, that doesn't negate or remove the clear likelihood that God works on behalf of His praying Christian flock.

“No, you missed the point. The point was not whether or not a person really did get better from GOD healing them from an internal sickness, it's whether or not if these examples could be explained away by other means such as Medical Science. In this case, we know that some people do get better from internal sickness from Medical Science and this can be used to explain away essentially any example of a person getting better from an internal sickness via the power of GOD through prayer as there are many variables that can go into why that person got better outside of GOD's healing power or at least it could be explained as such but like I said, how the heck would you be able to explain away someone on real time recording having a limb restored through the power of GOD via prayer ? That would be much harder to dismiss away. I have point this out over and over again.”

Here, you clearly didn't pick up where I said that God's intervention usually involves the cases where a full remission or cure has occurred; but, a medical treatment usually always results in a partial remission.

Sure, medical treatment does help people recover from sicknesses, but, those aren't the specific examples that involve the healing powers of God (e.g. in our exchange, I've directed you to three examples, but, you're lost with people going to get help from a doctor for a sickness; you haven't actually divided anything at all for yourself to address my points). I presented an example, or, several, that sorted the two. Jiving the workings of medical treatment has not been sorted with the specific examples that involved the healing powers of God, as you'd like to have it. Here, you're talking about two separate issues but in such a way that a reader who wants to agree with you could conflate the two separate issues. While you didn't see the difference, I've clearly separated the examples involving the healing powers of God from just any random medical visit that resulted in a successful treatment, even, where, usually, it's a partial remission. On this extra iteration, it's actually you who has the ball in his court but can't actually directly retort to my points with specifics. You're creating a confusion for yourself by being unwilling to notice my points, comprehensively, and by trying to proceed with your irrelevant point of someone that you speculate hasn't been healed by God from a lost limb.

“I don't even know where you are going here. Gravity is something that has been studied extensively we have a good idea how it works and how to measure it. You can't really do that with GOD at least not study good himself extensively as you can Gravity as the fullness of GOD is not available to us to understand, probably could not understand GOD's fullness anyways. No, we was speaking about the best evidence for GOD. I brought up that the best evidence for GOD would be GOD healing someone in real time and the event being recorded. You gave what you thought was examples of GOD healing someone in real time. Then I said GOD restoring a limb in real time would be the stronger evidence because it would be harder to explain away compared to GOD restoring someone from a internal sickness which could be explained away by other means including Medical Science helps get the person better or the person just got better over time. I don't think you can compare the study of Gravity to studying the supposed miracles of GOD as Gravity is more of a constant that can be studied directly. The miracles of GOD are somewhat inconsistent as data detailing each event can be problematic.”

In order to show your bias, you shifted from something that I said in my last post and attributed something that I didn't say to me to make it seemingly easier for you to address. In the case of gravity, what we've studied is the affect of gravity and formulated a number of calculations around it (e.g. in Newton's equation, gravity is represented by a universal constant G; the number of G was calculated/created around other physical phenomena and motions that we know of); from this equation, we put a number or measurement around the affects of gravity on things around it; but, gravity, itself, is still largely a mystery. In my explanation, I did the same thing with the works of God by pointing out the repetitive nature of it; but, this doesn't explain how God does His miracles nor isn't it really necessary to make the point that God performs miracles repetitively and often for praying Christians so as to make it pretty much impossible to try to dismiss Him as ever being a factor, which is something that you seem to speculate has been possible; however, I look at it as a state of denial that's starting to make you look silly in your feverish way to try and save face.

No, what you did was hang on to your speculation that no one has ever received a new limb from God, due to prayers, and framed it as this best evidence, which is really something that you prefer, as you still want to take a punchline or joke seriously; but, I pointed put examples of evidence of God's healing power; I pointed out that these 3 examples are 3 among nearly innumerable other available examples; and, I'm also the recipient of many examples of God's intervention, even one more more within the past few hours that had a consoling effect on me, following a prayer; essentially, it's harder for you to relate to my perspective, since you're never experienced some type of interaction from God on your behalf from the way things sound, based on how you're describing things in an effect to reduce God from our reality; but, as I explained to other, this doesn't negate my experiences and the personal experiences of many others; it only means that God has chosen not to work on your behalf as an intelligent Person/Entity for whatever reason(s), where He knows you deeply as a person.

Okay, lets try this once again... I guess

1. You say here that my Example of GOD restoring a person's limb in real time as a recording is irrelevant yet in the very next line of your reply you say that This would be strong evidence to behold. How can something be irrelevant as evidence and considered strong evidence at the same time ? You are not really seeing what I am saying. Remember the Question is : What is the Strongest Evidence for GOD's existence. Not what you or someone else would consider as evidence.

2. You are still not understanding the point here. I will explain it this way for you to understand since you are not catching my drift earlier. Strong Evidence is something that can handle critique or is usually not explained away by another position. While it's very well possible that GOD could have healed people in the examples you have given. The problem is still that these are Internal Sickness and between the idea that these people could have gotten better by Medicine, the sickness goes into Remission or a misdiagnose of the actual illness the person has, etc. The examples can be used as well as others to explain away what happened in those instances. The thing is how would anyone explain away someone being prayed for in real time on camera and their limb being restored back to normal ? That type of evidence would hold a lot stronger than the examples you gave.

3. No, I stated that the Strongest Evidence for GOD would be GOD restoring a person's limb in real time. I did not say whether it has been done or has not been done before, but I have not seen any documentation in real time of it happening yet. The rest of what you are saying here is bad conjecture.

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Iron_Tiger

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@king_saturn: He won't give evidence because he can't, there isn't any. He's pulling your leg.

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SpareHeadOne

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@iron_tiger:

Can you provide evidence that your mother (bless her) exists?

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Provide evidence because everyone here knows she doesn't exist.

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ForgotBlobfish

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@dshipp17: "That you need to mature"

Number uno: Just because I am asking for evidence does not make me immature

Deux: I am not the one who is kicking up a hissy fit on the argument. I am the one who will gladly switch sides in the name of fun.You heard that word before? Gonna follow @king_saturn's lead and only use bold/italics on this argument. As its the only way you will listen.

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ForgotBlobfish

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My argument is basically king_saturns. I want evidence. JUST EVIDENCE. Mathematical or physical.

Let me use mathematical. Look up Wheeler De-Whitt equation @king_saturn@dshipp17

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COOLGUY18

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@forgotblobfish: Why are you looking for PHYSICAL and MATHEMATICAL evidences in religion lol. Eveything in religion is methaporical and you would need more than intellegence if you want to start "understanding it" lol.

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No Caption Provided

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SpareHeadOne

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@spareheadone: No you do not get it! Baal drove a Nissan

(Nissan is the first Hebrew month)

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ForgotBlobfish

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A Nissan GT-R to be precise

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Noone1996

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Western Civilization as we know it today wouldn’t exist without Christianity.

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ForgotBlobfish

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@noone1996: Your point is? The peaceful muslim and Hebrew east was better before the west decided to invade it with guns.

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Iron_Tiger

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@forgotblobfish: ...duh? It doesn't take a blonde and a lightbulb to figure that out. He and I have been chatting since before you were an account.

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Iron_Tiger

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#27832  Edited By Iron_Tiger

@forgotblobfish: Because the peaceful Muslims didn't have slaves nor tortured and slaughtered people in the name of a pedophile and rapist "prophet"... Of course they're peaceful!

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ForgotBlobfish

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@iron_tiger: the west did that too. If we had given them a chance rather than kill them like cattle there religin might have matured

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ForgotBlobfish

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@forgotblobfish: ...duh? It doesn't take a blonde and a lightbulb to figure that out. He and I have been chatting since before you were an account.

Bruh, I'm Mr_Blobfish.

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ForgotBlobfish

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@iron_tiger: Also, why do you hate me? I have 0 bones to pick with you, or anyone on this site (except for fore10334235, damn, I hate that guy)

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Iron_Tiger

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@forgotblobfish: I don't know you or what other accounts you might have. I don't hate you, but I find some of what you've posted before to be downright stupid and hypocritical.

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dshipp17

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#27837  Edited By dshipp17

@forgotblobfish said:

@dshipp17: "That you need to mature"

Number uno: Just because I am asking for evidence does not make me immature

Deux: I am not the one who is kicking up a hissy fit on the argument. I am the one who will gladly switch sides in the name of fun.You heard that word before? Gonna follow @king_saturn's lead and only use bold/italics on this argument. As its the only way you will listen.

You need to read the comments more clearly. If you read the comments, evidence is provided; but, King Saturn keeps asking for God restoring a lost limb as what he frames as the best evidence; and, the ending point: has King Saturn actually done an exhaustive search and that he's looking for something else (e.g. more precisely, why God hasn't regrown a lost limb, as he speculates has never occurred): not whether there is evidence of God's healing powers but whether why hasn't God ever regrown a lost limb.

Your asking for an example of God's restoring a lost limb, after our exchange, isn't asking for evidence, as evidence was referenced by other means.

Now, suddenly, a string of posts have emerged about needing evidence for God's healing power, when evidence has been provided for the people preferring to be lead by your misinformation. This is how nonsense created at atheistic websites is developed right before our very eyes. Essentially, either difficulty in your reading comprehension or your deliberate misinformation, in order to say face. King Saturn is just harking on the same beaten point where he has no real come back.

@forgotblobfish said:

My argument is basically king_saturns. I want evidence. JUST EVIDENCE. Mathematical or physical.

Let me use mathematical. Look up Wheeler De-Whitt equation @king_saturn@dshipp17

My reference was to the Newton equation and that was clarified; this new equation that you can find and reference doesn't somehow prove my reference to the Newton equation for the universal gravitational constant had something wrong it; this shows that you're guided by your own bias against educating yourself in the areas that I referenced; that's the only problem, not a lack of evidence for God's healing powers.

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#27838  Edited By dshipp17

@king_saturn:

“You say here that my Example of GOD restoring a person's limb in real time as a recording is irrelevant yet in the very next line of your reply you say that This would be strong evidence to behold. How can something be irrelevant as evidence and considered strong evidence at the same time ? You are not really seeing what I am saying. Remember the Question is : What is the Strongest Evidence for GOD's existence. Not what you or someone else would consider as evidence.”

In that very next sentence I also said that the thousands of examples of God's healing powers in action already exists, is widely known and available to examine, and is even stronger evidence to behold, taken as a collective. For some reason, you keep dancing around this point, preferring instead to stubbornly stick with this irrelevant point, in order to save face, as the only clear and viable explanation. Also, the point is that there never being no example of God regrowing a lost limb is entirely based on an un-investigated speculation, so that makes it pointless and irrelevant in the grand context, also. The collective of available evidence is the strongest evidence of God's existence. But, again, you're not listening and comprehending, being hindered by trying to save face with your irrelevant point based entirely off your speculation that God has never regrown a limb for someone, where you haven't come close to having done the exhaustive type search that would be required to make such a sweeping claim. Previously, you were framing God regrowing a limb as the best evidence. What I and someone else would consider evidence is very important, provided you've examined what's being framed as evidence by us. Whether or not something is the strongest evidence clearly doesn't mean that there is no evidence at all to behold.

“You are still not understanding the point here. I will explain it this way for you to understand since you are not catching my drift earlier. Strong Evidence is something that can handle critique or is usually not explained away by another position. While it's very well possible that GOD could have healed people in the examples you have given. The problem is still that these are Internal Sickness and between the idea that these people could have gotten better by Medicine, the sickness goes into Remission or a misdiagnose of the actual illness the person has, etc. The examples can be used as well as others to explain away what happened in those instances. The thing is how would anyone explain away someone being prayed for in real time on camera and their limb being restored back to normal ? That type of evidence would hold a lot stronger than the examples you gave.”

My explanations show that I caught your drift quite well: you're basically failing to comprehend what you're being told, by half reading or partially reading my explanations, in order to find a way to jump back onto your now irrelevant point based that was entirely based off speculation, that God not regrowing a lost limb is somehow proof that something other than the power of God explains all of the examples of the healing powers of God that support the Christian belief that God has been displaying His healing power, since the ascension of Jesus back into Heaven; and, on the other point, disregarding, entirely, all of the examples of miracles not involving a medical issue; and, this is based on your preference or polarization towards punchlines, jokes, and quotes being delved out by people from within the atheistic community who not only haven't done an exhaustive research of the evidence available to Christians, but won't examine the evidence; they're basically relying on Christians to bring the evidence to them so that they can then take credit for having done an exhaustive research which they clearly haven't done on their own behalf, where these Christians fail to see what's going on in this regard. Basically, trying to reverse and shift the order in which evidence and proof should be examined.

The order is: for millennia, Jews and Christians had established a system that demonstrated the existence of God through various forms of evidence; around 1850, atheists came along and said there is no evidence of God; Christians said, but we've been relying on it for centuries, so you have no idea what you're talking about, point back to Proverbs in regard to claims that there is no God; atheists then attempted to prove their position, while maintaining their position that there is no God with success to an extent, until technology came along to shift it back to the Christian consensus again, except citing to the evidence is contingent on someone's willingness to examine the evidence within the scholarly Christian community, but, where there has been a stigma of sorts for people to do just that; and, now, through the scholarly Christian community, Christians are trying to get the public perception back into proper focus, where there is a stigma attached to setting out to investigate the evidence that supports God, the Bible, and Christianity.

While you explain what you consider strong evidence, it's clear indication that you've repeatedly failed to notice my example of a form of evidence relied upon by a church congregation during alter calls standing up to critique on a number of iterations now; this should tell you that there is no need for this explanation of your view of evidence examination. Thus, since you failed to notice this, you have no point here and it's misinformation, at this stage, because you simply haven't comprehended the brevity of what you've been told on this matter. You're amazingly speaking out of pure ignorance, even though these things were clearly explained right before your very eyes on a number of iterations now.

In the examples that I gave, the possibility that these people could have gotten better because of their medical treatment was demonstrated to have been unlikely to a great extreme for a reasonable and objective observer; this is both due to the proximity and timing, as well as the repeat nature of these unlikely coincidences that you imply exists: that somehow, it was a coincidence that their medical treatment just happened to come into affect during all examples of alter calls, based on what is already considered a medical anomaly: a spontaneous remission that is a cure (e.g. and spontaneous remissions are probably all the result of God's healing powers in action from praying Christians, but where the medical community have been framing them as spontaneous remissions, all along, thus taking credit from God's healing powers, when they happen and are observed by the medical community, given that a sizable number of the spontaneous remissions are usually full remissions; case and point: the example that I posted from last holiday season, where the people closest to that 12 year old girl agreed that it was God's healing powers that helped her, is probably already being co-opted by the medical community and framed as an example of one of these spontaneous remissions, leaving out that people closest to this girl are convinced that it was prayers to God from Christians that saved her).

But, you failed to follow the nature and collectiveness of this totality of evidence in favor of God's healing power, in being consumed with saving face on the issue of a speculation that there isn't an example of God having regrown a lost limb. There are already thousands into millions of examples of other examples of God's healing power on display that exists, beside a camera showing God regrowing a missing limb; and, with these examples, a coincidence is just unlikely, where a coincidence would be your strongest piece of evidence that something other than God's healing power was the real explanation, in a number of these examples; but, not to mention, also, your claim is rooted entirely in your speculative hope that all of these examples can or have already been explained away, which, again, has certainly not come close to being the case in our reality.

“No, I stated that the Strongest Evidence for GOD would be GOD restoring a person's limb in real time. I did not say whether it has been done or has not been done before, but I have not seen any documentation in real time of it happening yet. The rest of what you are saying here is bad conjecture.”

This was actually previously cleared up for you with the suggestion that you not translate the decisions of news editors and storytellers deciding what not to include in a news story as an indication for the non-existence of something; and, also, that you haven't or have not demonstrated yourself to have done the exhaustive type search that would be required to make such a sweeping and generalized claim; and, with that, whether your search of anything of a documentation was actually exhaustive; it sounds good to the eyes of people who want to agree with you, but, it's actually only a lot of fluff and bluster, and just sounds good as a punchline.

The strongest evidence is actually what's available: the collective examples of God's healing powers that is being relied upon by Christians, as they number well over 1000. And, also, these examples, based on timing, is unlikely to be explain away as a number of coincidences, which is what would be your strongest piece of evidence that something other then God's healing powers explains them; and, plus, not to mention, again, God's healing powers was the general consensus of Christians long before there ever was any available medical treatment that might possibly help the medical situation in question; and, also, that available medical treatments generally produce partial remissions, while God's healing powers have produced cures, yet along full remissions.

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@dshipp17 said:

@king_saturn:

“You say here that my Example of GOD restoring a person's limb in real time as a recording is irrelevant yet in the very next line of your reply you say that This would be strong evidence to behold. How can something be irrelevant as evidence and considered strong evidence at the same time ? You are not really seeing what I am saying. Remember the Question is : What is the Strongest Evidence for GOD's existence. Not what you or someone else would consider as evidence.”

In that very next sentence I also said that the thousands of examples of God's healing powers in action already exists, is widely known and available to examine, and is even stronger evidence to behold, taken as a collective. For some reason, you keep dancing around this point, preferring instead to stubbornly stick with this irrelevant point, in order to save face, as the only clear and viable explanation. Also, the point is that there never being no example of God regrowing a lost limb is entirely based on an un-investigated speculation, so that makes it pointless and irrelevant in the grand context, also. The collective of available evidence is the strongest evidence of God's existence. But, again, you're not listening and comprehending, being hindered by trying to save face with your irrelevant point based entirely off your speculation that God has never regrown a limb for someone, where you haven't come close to having done the exhaustive type search that would be required to make such a sweeping claim. Previously, you were framing God regrowing a limb as the best evidence. What I and someone else would consider evidence is very important, provided you've examined what's being framed as evidence by us. Whether or not something is the strongest evidence clearly doesn't mean that there is no evidence at all to behold.

“You are still not understanding the point here. I will explain it this way for you to understand since you are not catching my drift earlier. Strong Evidence is something that can handle critique or is usually not explained away by another position. While it's very well possible that GOD could have healed people in the examples you have given. The problem is still that these are Internal Sickness and between the idea that these people could have gotten better by Medicine, the sickness goes into Remission or a misdiagnose of the actual illness the person has, etc. The examples can be used as well as others to explain away what happened in those instances. The thing is how would anyone explain away someone being prayed for in real time on camera and their limb being restored back to normal ? That type of evidence would hold a lot stronger than the examples you gave.”

My explanations show that I caught your drift quite well: you're basically failing to comprehend what you're being told, by half reading or partially reading my explanations, in order to find a way to jump back onto your now irrelevant point based that was entirely based off speculation, that God not regrowing a lost limb is somehow proof that something other than the power of God explains all of the examples of the healing powers of God that support the Christian belief that God has been displaying His healing power, since the ascension of Jesus back into Heaven; and, on the other point, disregarding, entirely, all of the examples of miracles not involving a medical issue; and, this is based on your preference or polarization towards punchlines, jokes, and quotes being delved out by people from within the atheistic community who not only haven't done an exhaustive research of the evidence available to Christians, but won't examine the evidence; they're basically relying on Christians to bring the evidence to them so that they can then take credit for having done an exhaustive research which they clearly haven't done on their own behalf, where these Christians fail to see what's going on in this regard. Basically, trying to reverse and shift the order in which evidence and proof should be examined.

The order is: for millennia, Jews and Christians had established a system that demonstrated the existence of God through various forms of evidence; around 1850, atheists came along and said there is no evidence of God; Christians said, but we've been relying on it for centuries, so you have no idea what you're talking about, point back to Proverbs in regard to claims that there is no God; atheists then attempted to prove their position, while maintaining their position that there is no God with success to an extent, until technology came along to shift it back to the Christian consensus again, except citing to the evidence is contingent on someone's willingness to examine the evidence within the scholarly Christian community, but, where there has been a stigma of sorts for people to do just that; and, now, through the scholarly Christian community, Christians are trying to get the public perception back into proper focus, where there is a stigma attached to setting out to investigate the evidence that supports God, the Bible, and Christianity.

While you explain what you consider strong evidence, it's clear indication that you've repeatedly failed to notice my example of a form of evidence relied upon by a church congregation during alter calls standing up to critique on a number of iterations now; this should tell you that there is no need for this explanation of your view of evidence examination. Thus, since you failed to notice this, you have no point here and it's misinformation, at this stage, because you simply haven't comprehended the brevity of what you've been told on this matter. You're amazingly speaking out of pure ignorance, even though these things were clearly explained right before your very eyes on a number of iterations now.

In the examples that I gave, the possibility that these people could have gotten better because of their medical treatment was demonstrated to have been unlikely to a great extreme for a reasonable and objective observer; this is both due to the proximity and timing, as well as the repeat nature of these unlikely coincidences that you imply exists: that somehow, it was a coincidence that their medical treatment just happened to come into affect during all examples of alter calls, based on what is already considered a medical anomaly: a spontaneous remission that is a cure (e.g. and spontaneous remissions are probably all the result of God's healing powers in action from praying Christians, but where the medical community have been framing them as spontaneous remissions, all along, thus taking credit from God's healing powers, when they happen and are observed by the medical community, given that a sizable number of the spontaneous remissions are usually full remissions; case and point: the example that I posted from last holiday season, where the people closest to that 12 year old girl agreed that it was God's healing powers that helped her, is probably already being co-opted by the medical community and framed as an example of one of these spontaneous remissions, leaving out that people closest to this girl are convinced that it was prayers to God from Christians that saved her).

But, you failed to follow the nature and collectiveness of this totality of evidence in favor of God's healing power, in being consumed with saving face on the issue of a speculation that there isn't an example of God having regrown a lost limb. There are already thousands into millions of examples of other examples of God's healing power on display that exists, beside a camera showing God regrowing a missing limb; and, with these examples, a coincidence is just unlikely, where a coincidence would be your strongest piece of evidence that something other than God's healing power was the real explanation, in a number of these examples; but, not to mention, also, your claim is rooted entirely in your speculative hope that all of these examples can or have already been explained away, which, again, has certainly not come close to being the case in our reality.

“No, I stated that the Strongest Evidence for GOD would be GOD restoring a person's limb in real time. I did not say whether it has been done or has not been done before, but I have not seen any documentation in real time of it happening yet. The rest of what you are saying here is bad conjecture.”

This was actually previously cleared up for you with the suggestion that you not translate the decisions of news editors and storytellers deciding what not to include in a news story as an indication for the non-existence of something; and, also, that you haven't or have not demonstrated yourself to have done the exhaustive type search that would be required to make such a sweeping and generalized claim; and, with that, whether your search of anything of a documentation was actually exhaustive; it sounds good to the eyes of people who want to agree with you, but, it's actually only a lot of fluff and bluster, and just sounds good as a punchline.

The strongest evidence is actually what's available: the collective examples of God's healing powers that is being relied upon by Christians, as they number well over 1000. And, also, these examples, based on timing, is unlikely to be explain away as a number of coincidences, which is what would be your strongest piece of evidence that something other then God's healing powers explains them; and, plus, not to mention, again, God's healing powers was the general consensus of Christians long before there ever was any available medical treatment that might possibly help the medical situation in question; and, also, that available medical treatments generally produce partial remissions, while God's healing powers have produced cures, yet along full remissions.

Your style is rather bizarre, dshipp. It's like you write a lot just to go around what the issue at hand is.

The question is and has been : What would be the Strongest Evidence for GOD ? I gave what I thought would be the Strongest Evidence for GOD in GOD in real time healing a person with a missing limb and restoring it in real time. I myself have not seen any evidence of this. Does that mean it does not exist at all ? No sir, but my position is and has been that this specific event would be the Strongest Evidence for GOD and to some extent you admitted that as you said yourself it would be Strong Evidence to Behold.

Here is the thing, my point about these examples you gave is that these are examples of GOD healing someone of an Internal Sickness and for the most part these events are not recorded in real time where we can see GOD's healing power at work live and in effect. This is why I said these events can be explained away with an assortment of positions as I stated earlier but again, How would anyone explain away someone being restored in real time to have a limb regrow on real time recorded document via Prayer to the Almighty ? That would be beyond anything you gave as example. Hence, my position.

I have not danced around anything. Yes, you are correct sometimes I do not read all of what you say because a lot of what you say is personal conjecture against me anyways or it goes off on a tangent that is not directly in line with what the discussion pertains to. In any case, you still seem to think that I am just hanging on this idea for dear life that I only have GOD healing a person's limb as strongest evidence for GOD. I also stated earlier that if GOD caused an animal to talk like he did that Donkey in the Bible concerning Balaam and it spoke to me saying "Saturn, Jesus Christ is Lord" that would be a world shaking event and incredible evidence for The Almighty. The only thing is I would need to have this documented for myself on tape.

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@king_saturn: All he does is plays around your questioning, telling you to "go back and find the evidence yourself," so he doesn't have to. Again, he will not post anything you ask for, because he can't and knows he can't. He's also trying to make it seem like you're wrong and a horrible person for asking him for evidence, constantly telling you that you don't understand and are missing something and so on and so forth.

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#27843  Edited By dshipp17

@king_saturn:

“I have not danced around anything. Yes, you are correct sometimes I do not read all of what you say because a lot of what you say is personal conjecture against me anyways or it goes off on a tangent that is not directly in line with what the discussion pertains to. In any case, you still seem to think that I am just hanging on this idea for dear life that I only have GOD healing a person's limb as strongest evidence for GOD. I also stated earlier that if GOD caused an animal to talk like he did that Donkey in the Bible concerning Balaam and it spoke to me saying "Saturn, Jesus Christ is Lord" that would be a world shaking event and incredible evidence for The Almighty. The only thing is I would need to have this documented for myself on tape.”

And, because you're not reading, you missed where you were told where to get many examples of taped incidents of God's healing power in action. Essentially, your reason why you're not reading is as I said: you're clinging onto a dead point, and dancing around the points that have you beaten; basically, just trying to go with something else would be a more professional tact for you. Not to mention, also, such tapes are easily found with just some sensible effort on your part to try locating them, where I also hinted that you should direct your efforts towards the scholarly Christian community. I'm not too convinced that you're not just taking punchlines that you're found from an atheistic website, believing that you're somehow found information that is devastating to the Christian community, and just throwing spaghetti in a direction of where there might be a wall in a dark room and hoping that something sticks. Also, once you get a personal connection with God, you'll be astonished at what God can do for you in the way of persuasion; I experience this persuasion from God all of the time, demonstrating for me that God does, in fact, indeed know my thoughts.

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@king_saturn: All he does is plays around your questioning, telling you to "go back and find the evidence yourself," so he doesn't have to. Again, he will not post anything you ask for, because he can't and knows he can't. He's also trying to make it seem like you're wrong and a horrible person for asking him for evidence, constantly telling you that you don't understand and are missing something and so on and so forth.

I am seeing this pattern.

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@dshipp17 said:

@king_saturn:

“I have not danced around anything. Yes, you are correct sometimes I do not read all of what you say because a lot of what you say is personal conjecture against me anyways or it goes off on a tangent that is not directly in line with what the discussion pertains to. In any case, you still seem to think that I am just hanging on this idea for dear life that I only have GOD healing a person's limb as strongest evidence for GOD. I also stated earlier that if GOD caused an animal to talk like he did that Donkey in the Bible concerning Balaam and it spoke to me saying "Saturn, Jesus Christ is Lord" that would be a world shaking event and incredible evidence for The Almighty. The only thing is I would need to have this documented for myself on tape.”

And, because you're not reading, you missed where you were told where to get many examples of taped incidents of God's healing power in action. Essentially, your reason why you're not reading is as I said: you're clinging onto a dead point, and dancing around the points that have you beaten; basically, just trying to go with something else would be a more professional tact for you. Not to mention, also, such tapes are easily found with just some sensible effort on your part to try locating them, where I also hinted that you should direct your efforts towards the scholarly Christian community. I'm not too convinced that you're not just taking punchlines that you're found from an atheistic website, believing that you're somehow found information that is devastating to the Christian community, and just throwing spaghetti in a direction of where there might be a wall in a dark room and hoping that something sticks. Also, once you get a personal connection with God, you'll be astonished at what God can do for you in the way of persuasion; I experience this persuasion from God all of the time, demonstrating for me that God does, in fact, indeed know my thoughts.

I looked on that site about Sid Roth's It's Supernatural and have not seen videos of GOD healing someone in real time where we see the effects of GOD restoring or regenerating someone in the video itself. The people would discuss about how they would be healed and what supposedly the sickness it was they was healed from but not a real time event in the video where said person was restored right there from a sickness that could be shown to be real time restoration.

Here is the thing, dshipp. If you yourself know of the specific video where it can be shown where the said person is being restored in real time where we can see GOD's regenerative power in effect, please show the video or at least give the name of the person who is being restored so it can be examined.

Everything else you have stated is personal conjecture again. Why do you keep doing this ?

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@dshipp17: Newtons equation was proved wrong by A: Einstein and B: The EM drive

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@king_saturn: Ya know what, we had the same problem with forewhatsisface, the debate was not fun anymore because when he was beaten he would not budge. Leave the debate.

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@forgotblobfish:

Oh I thought he drove a Saab

No, no. That broke down recently. He wanted a tesla (You know, the environment, be all trendy), but he couldn't afford it. He's getting a nissan leaf to replace it

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@forgotblobfish: I don't know you or what other accounts you might have. I don't hate you, but I find some of what you've posted before to be downright stupid and hypocritical.

Sorry about the Yobs thing, had a bad day, not an excuse but deleting it now. What other things?

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