Religion… What do you think?

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SpareHeadOne

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@official_chad3:

I think we can all agree that God created murder and anchovy pizza

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LeoTheGreatest

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Outdated business idea

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King Saturn

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@king_saturn: Your child is your Production yet God still takes credit for creating it. Anything that is involved in transgressing his laws is counted as a transgression or a sin. God is not responsible for the birth of non Adamite, because just like it is the case that we both have brought up, he never intended to have Adamites breeding with the Devil. Devils are products of sins so they are sins. Yes, it is, however it is more likely to be related to the notion that Jesus came to continue the war between the Edomites and the Israelites.

I thought Devils are Fallen Angels ? If so, then GOD created Angels that eventually Fell. In other words, GOD created something that their own actions made them something else. I am still trying to figure out how it is GOD claims he forms people in the womb in multiple parts of the Bible yet he only does it for his chosen people. I never seen that point you are trying to make in the Bible.

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SpareHeadOne

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This universe is God's wife

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Official_Chad3

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@king_saturn: Yes, and the fallen angels created next generations of them and they are sins. According to Psalm certain people, who are born out of the fallen angels, are born bad, and anyone related to them genetically with them being the ancestors is bad so God doesn’t create any of them, just like what has been said in Matthew. The tree which is not of his father will not be allowed to grow because it is like cancer.

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Official_Chad3

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King Saturn

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@king_saturn: Yes, and the fallen angels created next generations of them and they are sins. According to Psalm certain people, who are born out of the fallen angels, are born bad, and anyone related to them genetically with them being the ancestors is bad so God doesn’t create any of them, just like what has been said in Matthew. The tree which is not of his father will not be allowed to grow because it is like cancer.

But who has control over Life and Death as a whole ? Who can make it so that those who are descendants of Fallen Angels not actually exist by making those who are of Non Adam descent infertile ? GOD is Omnipotent from what is understood.

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dshipp17

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#27658  Edited By dshipp17

@cable_extreme:

“You cannot post research-based articles can you.”

What does this have to do with responding to the point that I made that you're calling the people in the clips random people, where you said that because you won't review the video clips? What does this have to do with the point that research-based articles are discussed throughout the clips, from start to finish? Also, you're not listening to my points. What you need to revisit and again think about is the point of whether your question is related to the context for the subject at hand. Also, you told me that there is no evidence for God. I pointed you to evidence for God, as a favor. Again, it's up to you, based on your knowledge of the topic, to demonstrate to me that there is no evidence for God. Provide me research-based (scientific) articles that show that Alexander the Great existed, if you haven't yet understood the absurdity of your challenge to me.

“Quote me, I have never held a Gnostic position of Atheism. I am agnostic with no active belief in a God.”

You're inventing here to try saving face. All I noticed is that you said in the past that you were atheist and your posture shows your bias in this regard.

“As in I simply don't know if there is or isn't but I am having trouble believing your claims, and the claims made in the bible. I have entertained the idea of deism outside of religion. So I have not dismissed a possibility of some sort of creator. I think you have the wrong idea.”

Here, again, you've lost total context of the matter at hand in your spin. You said that there was no God or agreed with another poster who said such, after that poster was told multiple times to demonstrate their position that there was no God, after I pointed them towards evidence, in case they were unaware of it; but, with their claim, they should be aware of it, before making such a blanket and open-ended claim; this claim is usually code for someone who is willfully ignorant and trying to argue rather than trying to learn of any available evidence that might exist.

Plus, you made derogatory implications about people who hold sacred belief in God, because you're willfully ignorant of the information and evidence that support our firm belief. And, with the poster who was just sucked in by you, you demonstrated, as I'd claimed just prior to your exchange, that you only want to pretend that you knew what I know, as you're pretending that you knew what they knew. Again, it's up to you to show that, despite our belief, what we think of as evidence is not actually evidence such that an objective mind on both sides could agree; this can be, and is very likely, very different from what you claim to want to accept as evidence; this means that you have to reconcile your claimed expectations with real reality or move toward a more objective position to understand that you've been provided evidence; again, academia agrees that some of this is indeed considered evidence; this quite simply means that you'd be getting a number of test questions wrong and might carry your egotistical determination to a failing grade in a course; with a failing grade, you get the message that it is you, not everyone else, who needs to be fixed in some way, shape, or form.

“You can state I have ignorance in the bible all you want. But you are still dodging every attempt I have in getting you to respond. Why should I believe the bible's claims that Jesus was born of a virgin if it is scientifically impossible by our understanding of science?”

Lets take it to it's end result: you'd have to accept it, because God created the laws that govern science, so God is beyond the boundaries of science; this is necessary, because there is otherwise evidence for God; while this point could be seen as challenging in one sense, it is overcome, since God is otherwise proven to exist; thus, because God exists and created science, your point can be both bypassed and explained by God's otherwise proven existence; it's basically a logic argument; this is similar to God making it possible for Sarah to have a baby even though she was both barren and otherwise rendered barren by old age, when she finally gave birth to Issac. Plus, again, one of the clips addresses this topic through a scientific lens within the limits of what current science can show.

“And there are much more realistic explanations that could explain the outcome if such an event really did occur. Which is more likely? Mary lied due to an affair? Or the laws of physics were suspended? Or a plethora of other potential circumstances that are realistic?”

The context removes it as a possibility or renders it the least likely possibility. Mary was a devout Jew and she wouldn't have committed adultery, as such; not to mention that her life was quite literally at stake, otherwise. And, Jesus's extraordinary life is itself a validation that He was the product of a divine entrance, as He proved to be Divine. God had already laid out the circumstances that He would not have validated Jesus if Jesus wasn't who He claimed to be, and this promise from God had been validated a number of times before Jesus appeared by people who were let down, when making claims in the name of God without God's approval or validation.

Again, God is beyond physics, since He created the physics, as currently understood. Had Jesus not lived the extraordinary life that He did, then the more likely possibility would be the one that you prefer: that it was something other than what the Bible claims.

“How did his followers find an empty tomb if the tomb was guarded? If the tomb wasn't guarded at that time, then what stops the body from being taken?”

Because the Roman guards were assigned to guard the tomb for a set period of time, based on a warning of claims that there was a rumor that Jesus was supposed to rise from the dead after a set period of time. So, to make sure that the body could not be stolen to false validate the claim by His followers stealing His body, the guards were placed there in order to keep the followers of Jesus demoralized, as an extension of the message sent their way due to the crucifixion of Jesus. When the followers of Jesus approached the tomb, both the time period that the guards were assigned to guard the tomb had expired and occurrences during the resurrection had left the guards spooked or bewildered and faint to the point that they fainted; and, because their lives were otherwise at risk, if found sleeping on duty, Jesus's resurrection being true served to save their lives, as such was such an extraordinary event, as it happened as claimed. When the followers got there, they recovered the cloth, while discussing it, but could not find his body; they later communicated with a live Jesus.

“Why don't we see followers of Jesus in today's age performing miracles and moving mountains in his name like it was stated in the great commission?”

This question is proof that you don't know nearly enough to substantiate your claim that there is no evidence for God; without your willful ignorance, you would have the answer to your question. Or, you have to, based on what you know, discredit what we believe as evidence existing for the many documented instances of miracles that we know exists, after praying in Jesus's name for a miracle; again, I'm not here to do your foot work for you, I'm here as your debate adversary, but, also your friend, as I'm also trying to win your soul's salvation so that you can avoid remembering our exchange, while in regret during an everlasting torment in Hell; but, I also can be relieved of any responsibility, if you end up too stubborn to have listened to me. Just last holiday season, one year ago, I posted a story of a 12 year old girl who'd received a miracle from Jesus, thanks to the prayers of her Christian parents.

“My position is not that there is no god, only that I do not believe the claims you make and the claims the bible make. Appeal to populace is a logical fallacy.

And isn't the path supposed to be narrow? It seems like its the biggest path right now.”

This is precisely what you're otherwise doing, provided the populace supports your bias (e.g. you're making no excuses whatsoever for the many demonstrated shortcomings and weaknesses of science, but treating it was your miracle processing machine). The problem is that you're unaware of the available evidence, since you've created the circumstance for yourself which has shielded you from the information that you need to know. If you want to know, and you stopped fighting, and you committed to becoming a Christian, I'll be both your guardian and your guide towards Christianity and into the Heavenly Kingdom, as you being a newly welcome Christian.

Scientists are baffled: What’s up with the universe?

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Official_Chad3

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@king_saturn: God chooses to let them breed and continue their evil because his children have sinned against him and death and sorrow are our punishments but in the end he promises to return and kill them all just like he has slaughtered all the Egyptian babies.

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SpareHeadOne

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Official_Chad3

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Shemites.

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HulkBusterx9

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Still no evidence, I see.

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SpareHeadOne

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Mark 9:38-50:

And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us.

39 But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me.

40 For he that is not against us is on our part.

41 For whosoever shall give you a cup of water to drink in my name, because ye belong to Christ, verily I say unto you, he shall not lose his reward.

42 And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea.

43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

46 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:

48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

49 For every one shall be salted with fire, and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt.

50 Salt is good: but if the salt have lost his saltness, wherewith will ye season it? Have salt in yourselves, and have peace one with another.

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@dshipp17:

What does this have to do with responding to the point that I made that you're calling the people in the clips random people, where you said that because you won't review the video clips? What does this have to do with the point that research-based articles are discussed throughout the clips, from start to finish? Also, you're not listening to my points. What you need to revisit and again think about is the point of whether your question is related to the context for the subject at hand. Also, you told me that there is no evidence for God. I pointed you to evidence for God, as a favor. Again, it's up to you, based on your knowledge of the topic, to demonstrate to me that there is no evidence for God. Provide me research-based (scientific) articles that show that Alexander the Great existed, if you haven't yet understood the absurdity of your challenge to me.

You keep repeating points that I am not contesting. I am not claiming a guy named Jesus didn't exist, nor whether or not Alexander the Great existed. I am saying I don't believe the bible's claim of supernatural events.

Hebrews 11:11Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assuranceabout what we do not see

2 Corinthians 5:77For we live by faith, not by sight.

The problem is you cannot back up the claims of the supernatural events in the bible because it requires faith to believe in the first place. The bible makes it clear. There is nothing you can see outside of "faith" that's going to make people believe the bible.

You're inventing here to try saving face. All I noticed is that you said in the past that you were atheist and your posture shows your bias in this regard.

I am an agnostic atheist, I do not actively believe in a God, however it is different from an gnostic atheist who believe god/s does not exist. Again, quote me.

Here, again, you've lost total context of the matter at hand in your spin. You said that there was no God or agreed with another poster who said such, after that poster was told multiple times to demonstrate their position that there was no God, after I pointed them towards evidence, in case they were unaware of it; but, with their claim, they should be aware of it, before making such a blanket and open-ended claim; this claim is usually code for someone who is willfully ignorant and trying to argue rather than trying to learn of any available evidence that might exist.

Plus, you made derogatory implications about people who hold sacred belief in God, because you're willfully ignorant of the information and evidence that support our firm belief. And, with the poster who was just sucked in by you, you demonstrated, as I'd claimed just prior to your exchange, that you only want to pretend that you knew what I know, as you're pretending that you knew what they knew. Again, it's up to you to show that, despite our belief, what we think of as evidence is not actually evidence such that an objective mind on both sides could agree; this can be, and is very likely, very different from what you claim to want to accept as evidence; this means that you have to reconcile your claimed expectations with real reality or move toward a more objective position to understand that you've been provided evidence; again, academia agrees that some of this is indeed considered evidence; this quite simply means that you'd be getting a number of test questions wrong and might carry your egotistical determination to a failing grade in a course; with a failing grade, you get the message that it is you, not everyone else, who needs to be fixed in some way, shape, or form.

You have nothing to present? In a topic about god, you talk about me a lot. Academia only agrees that someone named Jesus probably existed and was some sort of spiritual teacher. However, it is not accepted that he performed real miracles or rose from the dead after 3 days. Here is a video that is only 5 minutes since you are so into videos. This directly represents my argument.

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Lets take it to it's end result: you'd have to accept it, because God created the laws that govern science, so God is beyond the boundaries of science; this is necessary, because there is otherwise evidence for God; while this point could be seen as challenging in one sense, it is overcome, since God is otherwise proven to exist; thus, because God exists and created science, your point can be both bypassed and explained by God's otherwise proven existence; it's basically a logic argument; this is similar to God making it possible for Sarah to have a baby even though she was both barren and otherwise rendered barren by old age, when she finally gave birth to Issac. Plus, again, one of the clips addresses this topic through a scientific lens within the limits of what current science can show.

How is God otherwise proven to exist? How is the God of the bible proven to exist? Lets say you interpret the universe as evidence of a creator. How could you then claim it is a creator of one specific religion? You have so far to go the believe such a highly specific belief. If there is evidence of a creator of some sort, the addition of each specific variable (existed in human form, shown himself 2000 years ago, preached about specialized morality, crucified, died on the cross) becomes much less likely with the addition of each unsupported variable/assumption.

The context removes it as a possibility or renders it the least likely possibility. Mary was a devout Jew and she wouldn't have committed adultery, as such; not to mention that her life was quite literally at stake, otherwise. And, Jesus's extraordinary life is itself a validation that He was the product of a divine entrance, as He proved to be Divine. God had already laid out the circumstances that He would not have validated Jesus if Jesus wasn't who He claimed to be, and this promise from God had been validated a number of times before Jesus appeared by people who were let down, when making claims in the name of God without God's approval or validation.

Again, God is beyond physics, since He created the physics, as currently understood. Had Jesus not lived the extraordinary life that He did, then the more likely possibility would be the one that you prefer: that it was something other than what the Bible claims.

So you would believe that a Jew/religious person is incapable of "sin"? That is not what your bible teaches. You would rather believe that the laws of nature were suspended instead of someone commiting adultery?...

God is beyond physics? No evidence that it is possible, it is simply your justification to believe something that is not logical.

Because the Roman guards were assigned to guard the tomb for a set period of time, based on a warning of claims that there was a rumor that Jesus was supposed to rise from the dead after a set period of time. So, to make sure that the body could not be stolen to false validate the claim by His followers stealing His body, the guards were placed there in order to keep the followers of Jesus demoralized, as an extension of the message sent their way due to the crucifixion of Jesus. When the followers of Jesus approached the tomb, both the time period that the guards were assigned to guard the tomb had expired and occurrences during the resurrection had left the guards spooked or bewildered and faint to the point that they fainted; and, because their lives were otherwise at risk, if found sleeping on duty, Jesus's resurrection being true served to save their lives, as such was such an extraordinary event, as it happened as claimed. When the followers got there, they recovered the cloth, while discussing it, but could not find his body; they later communicated with a live Jesus.

So you believe that Jesus reasurrected instead of guards possibly falling asleep? Look through the lens of non-bias and think why I should believe an ancient text that states the laws of nature were suspended? Plenty of religious text all around the world make similar claims yet I guarantee you would most likely dismiss those. Why should I not dismiss these?

This is precisely what you're otherwise doing, provided the populace supports your bias (e.g. you're making no excuses whatsoever for the many demonstrated shortcomings and weaknesses of science, but treating it was your miracle processing machine). The problem is that you're unaware of the available evidence, since you've created the circumstance for yourself which has shielded you from the information that you need to know. If you want to know, and you stopped fighting, and you committed to becoming a Christian, I'll be both your guardian and your guide towards Christianity and into the Heavenly Kingdom, as you being a newly welcome Christian.

I have been asking you for evidence so I can believe. I am not able to simply believe in anything, (fairies, elves, magic, demons, angels, gods) etc... Nothing in the bible is supported by studying the natural world.

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dshipp17

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#27669  Edited By dshipp17

@cable_extreme:

“So you believe that Jesus reasurrected instead of guards possibly falling asleep? Look through the lens of non-bias and think why I should believe an ancient text that states the laws of nature were suspended? Plenty of religious text all around the world make similar claims yet I guarantee you would most likely dismiss those. Why should I not dismiss these?”

I focus on these points now, because they represent a response to the main posture of the discussion at hand: your claim that there is no evidence for God, my invitation that you explain what you actually know in the way of evidence, where this represents your doing it. My invitation remains: that you go and try to explore the available evidence for yourself, before you make such a sweeping generalized conclusion that has such profound consequences for your soul in the afterlife; that's what you should think about and way the balance in favor of believing in God, as you wouldn't want to be in a position where you have to come to the realization that you're in everlasting torment with no way of escape; correct me if I'm wrong here, but I believe that you were probably raised in a Christian environment, but left it due to your propensity towards drifting away from Christianity, probably starting as a teenager and then finally when you became an adult. You then sought out and flooded your mind with a bunch of anti-Christian material usually produced by atheists. This doesn't prove that your Christian faith has been invalidated in anyway, it just shows your propensity to drift away from the Christian faith. Nothing you've presented actually shows your giving fair thought and balanced evaluation of the evidence presented, just your trying to rebut and critique. We can have a reasonable exchange, as we have on this quoted topic, provided it's something that you actually know about the existence of God, yourself, but you're skeptical of it.

Jesus, yes, I believe that Jesus arose from the dead in place of the guards failing asleep. The only basis that you and others are using is that someone persons or person was able to steal the body. The person would have needed to steal the body to give the ruse that the prophecy had been fulfilled. Not only were there guards positioned to guard the tomb, but a very large stone that required several people to remove it was placed by the entrance of the tomb.

Entering in, Jesus's followers were demoralized and would have risked confrontation with the guards; after this confrontation, they would then have to have removed the stone.

Say theoretically the guards were overpowered and rendered unconscious. Had this occurred, word would have most certainly gotten back to the Romans and there would have been immediate consequences to pay, as only one of two most likely possibilities happened: the guards were rendered unconscious and the body was stolen or the guards were killed and the body was stolen; and, case solved, as the Romans would not have been so inclined to collaborate in a story with Jesus's followers in the context that they were otherwise trying to demoralize them; and the Jews were unable to convince the Romans to share in their story that the body had been stolen, surely something very easily shared in, had either of these happened or the guards had fallen asleep; in fallowing asleep, the trigger response would have been an assumption that the body was stolen or, more precisely, taken, and that it was Jesus's followers who were likely responsible, and, then immediate repercussions for them by both the Jews and Romans; and the clear and predominant theme would have been that Jesus's body was stolen and his followers were just trying to cling onto the hope/message that His having fulfilled the prophecy, where I'm sure that would have just faded away, lost in antiquity with lost secret manuscripts claiming that Jesus rose from the dead; instead, it's either the other way around or people just trying to be in denial about the fact of His resurrection.

Thus, that something happened out of the ordinary is very the most viable explanation, supplemented by the fact that the guards told a compelling story sufficient enough to have saved them from execution; this all also would have had to taken place in the early morning hours, somewhere between 11pm and 4am local time; sure, if not properly prepared, someone could doze off, but not sufficiently enough for a person or three to then struggle with the stone at the risk of waking the guards, again demoralized and dejected by the execution of Jesus, otherwise. The recital from the Bible explains that the two Marys and Martha then approached the tomb, in the morning hours, I'm guessing sometime between 6am and 11am local time, or, maybe, just at some point doing that day (I just picture that they approached the tomb before anyone else), where the heavy stone block had been rolled away. In this version, the guards were gone and they encountered two Angels and Jesus. Jesus then appeared to His followers and reinvigorated them from the demoralized state. Sure, doing detective work and thought, I think that Jesus resurrecting from the dead is the most likely explanation, as incredible as it would sound; the reason being, is that it's critical to evaluate the context to then derive this more incredible explanation ans the more likely to have happened; taken in isolation, then it would be the less likely explanation; that's why context is always important in detective work, but is something that usually escapes people.

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Cable_Extreme

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#27670  Edited By Cable_Extreme

@dshipp17:

I focus on these points now, because they represent a response to the main posture of the discussion at hand: your claim that there is no evidence for God, my invitation that you explain what you actually know in the way of evidence, where this represents your doing it. My invitation remains: that you go and try to explore the available evidence for yourself, before you make such a sweeping generalized conclusion that has such profound consequences for your soul in the afterlife; that's what you should think about and way the balance in favor of believing in God, as you wouldn't want to be in a position where you have to come to the realization that you're in everlasting torment with no way of escape; correct me if I'm wrong here, but I believe that you were probably raised in a Christian environment, but left it due to your propensity towards drifting away from Christianity, probably starting as a teenager and then finally when you became an adult. You then sought out and flooded your mind with a bunch of anti-Christian material usually produced by atheists. This doesn't prove that your Christian faith has been invalidated in anyway, it just shows your propensity to drift away from the Christian faith. Nothing you've presented actually shows your giving fair thought and balanced evaluation of the evidence presented, just your trying to rebut and critique. We can have a reasonable exchange, as we have on this quoted topic, provided it's something that you actually know about the existence of God, yourself, but you're skeptical of it.

Lets review some evidence then.

Standford.edu Gravity

Colorado.edu Buoyancy

USGS.gov Water Tension

Pcc.edu Buoyancy of human body

Based off of this information, it is reasonable to be skeptical of the claim that someone was able to walk on water. There are many more factors I did not list like, even with proper buoyancy, the absence of friction at the water's surface would not allow someone to effectively walk across the surface, if at all. I can do this with all claims of supernatural occurrences, like the resurrection by linking information about rigor mortis and decay 3 days or more after death, lack of fluid from the puncture wound (and whip lacerations) on his body to effectively re-circulate blood (lack of drinking fluids for 3 days especially).

What reason do I have to believe the supernatural claims made in the bible?

Jesus, yes, I believe that Jesus arose from the dead in place of the guards failing asleep. The only basis that you and others are using is that someone persons or person was able to steal the body. The person would have needed to steal the body to give the ruse that the prophecy had been fulfilled. Not only were there guards positioned to guard the tomb, but a very large stone that required several people to remove it was placed by the entrance of the tomb.

My only bias is the skepticism of a claim you and the bible are making, I weigh that claim against what we currently understand in science. If there are other possible, and more likely explanations, then those are morel likely. This assumes it even happens and that the years the stories being verbally passed down is even still entirely accurate.

Entering in, Jesus's followers were demoralized and would have risked confrontation with the guards; after this confrontation, they would then have to have removed the stone.

The stone was removed was it not?

Say theoretically the guards were overpowered and rendered unconscious. Had this occurred, word would have most certainly gotten back to the Romans and there would have been immediate consequences to pay, as only one of two most likely possibilities happened: the guards were rendered unconscious and the body was stolen or the guards were killed and the body was stolen; and, case solved, as the Romans would not have been so inclined to collaborate in a story with Jesus's followers in the context that they were otherwise trying to demoralize them; and the Jews were unable to convince the Romans to share in their story that the body had been stolen, surely something very easily shared in, had either of these happened or the guards had fallen asleep; in fallowing asleep, the trigger response would have been an assumption that the body was stolen and that it was Jesus's followers who were likely responsible, and, then immediate repercussions for them by both the Jews and Romans; and the clear and predominant theme would have been that Jesus's body was stolen and his followers were just trying to cling onto the hope/message that His having fulfilled the prophecy, where I'm sure that would have just faded away, lost in antiquity with lost secret manuscripts claiming that Jesus rose from the dead; instead, it's either the other way around or people just trying to be in denial about the fact of His resurrection.

This assumes the story is accurate to begin with. How would word get back to the Romans if they were rendered unconcsicous? Maybe the reason his followers were crucified could have been for this reason? If they were at all, and if this even happened.

Should I start quoting the Qur'an and posting verses about Muhamad? They would hold no relevance over you and you would dismiss them. Why? That same reason you would dismiss them is why I dismiss all forms of supernatural claims.

Thus, that something happened out of the ordinary is very the most viable explanation, supplemented by the fact that the guards told a compelling story sufficient enough to have saved them from execution; this all also would have had to taken place in the early morning hours, somewhere between 11pm and 4am local time; sure, if not properly prepared, someone could doze off, but not sufficiently enough for a person or three to then struggle with the stone at the risk of waking the guards, again demoralized and dejected by the execution of Jesus, otherwise. The recital from the Bible explains that the two Marys and Martha then approached the tomb, in the morning hours, I'm guessing sometime between 6am and 11am local time, or, maybe, just at some point doing that day (I just picture that they approached the tomb before anyone else), where the heavy stone block had been rolled away. In this version, the guards were gone and they encountered two Angels and Jesus. Jesus then appeared to His followers and reinvigorated them from the demoralized state. Sure, doing detective work and thought, I think that Jesus resurrecting from the dead is the most likely explanation, as incredible as it would sound; the reason being, is that it's critical to evaluate the context to then derive this more incredible explanation ans the more likely to have happened; taken in isolation, then it would be the less likely explanation; that's why context is always important in detective work, but is something that usually escapes people.

There are many more likely scenarios than this. People back then were very superstitious and gullible. This story was passed down verbally many years after it was written down. Many early civilizations have religious text like this, claiming amazing things to then have people pass down and believe.

To believe your story, you would have to first, believe in the existence of angels, believe in supernatural resurrection, believe shady 2000 year old text from non-eyewitnesses, and believe it enough to justify it against modern science.

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@cable_extreme:

You are God

In exodus god says he will be what he will be.

We are God and we will become what we become

We are becoming the God that we aspire to

Consciousness is fundamental and it is God and it is us

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May the lord God of Israel burn those who flagged me for warning his chosen one about their genocide. Those Babylonian filths must perish.

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#27675  Edited By dshipp17

@cable_extreme:

“This assumes it even happens and that the years the stories being verbally passed down is even still entirely accurate.”

That is because you're being deliberately obtuse. One basis to take the Bible seriously is that the Bible has always been successfully validated in all it's claims that are still capable of being validated. Another is that the Romans validated that Jesus existed in their attempts to rebut and make claims that the Jews were considered superstitious. You can't switch from reality to some imaginary world that supports what you'd prefer others to believe to line up with your life to rebel against the way you were raised as a Christian.

“My only bias is the skepticism of a claim you and the bible are making, I weigh that claim against what we currently understand in science. If there are other possible, and more likely explanations, then those are morel likely.”

The explanation that you presented, that the body was stolen by His followers, was addressed through the use of logic, using the context of the situation and some detective work. You can't now just alter reality to invent some other possibility.

Of course, there are many things and many problems that current science has no answer for or can't solve. A trained scientist would see things differently, then trying to limit themselves into what we currently know. As a trained scientist, I look to extend the boundaries in order to invent new knowledge; you can't stay within the boundaries; you have to have one foot placed in what we currently can know and place the other foot into exploring ways to advance science; clearly, you're only trying to save face.

“The stone was removed was it not?”

Sure, but that doesn't mean that it was them, the followers of Jesus, who removed, as evidenced by the established context.

“This assumes the story is accurate to begin with. How would word get back to the Romans if they were rendered unconscious? Maybe the reason his followers were crucified could have been for this reason? If they were at all, and if this even happened.”

Given that the Bible has been validated many times over the years, any reasonable mind would assume that the narrative is accurate and true. And it's provided by people trying to project a moral character and impression, where one is to be truthful at all times rather than deceptive, as the villain of the Bible is rooted in deception and lying.

The Romans would get word, once the solders regained consciousness and reported back, obviously; or, the lesser likely, they never reported back; both would have left the the Romans in a state seeking retribution against the followers of Jesus; and the Jews were a source of reminder for them.

No, the most reasonable likelihood would be that they were later crucified for the reasons given in the Bible, as they are extensions of the reasons that Jesus was crucified; the Romans would not have waited years to decades later to extract retribution. Just be reasonable with yourself. To be skeptical that it ever happened would only be reasonable, if the Bible were notoriously inaccurate and almost never validated; but, that isn't real reality.

“There are many more likely scenarios than this. People back then were very superstitious and gullible. This story was passed down verbally many years after it was written down. Many early civilizations have religious text like this, claiming amazing things to then have people pass down and believe.”

There aren't many likely scenarios available or you would have cited others; this would be due to the context at hand; other scenarios would be possible only if you could view the resurrection of Jesus in isolation.

The first writings of the Bible that could be successfully preserved occurred around 30-37 years, after Jesus ascended into Heaven. But, it wasn't due to a preference towards oral tradition, rather than writing. The Christians were being increasingly persecuted by the Jews and the Romans, at the given time and in the given context; thus, given the context, it would be safe to assume that there were likely earlier writings available immediately preceding the earliest written sample that could be preserved that was relied upon, in order to make the writings; it would have been these writings that supported the writings that could finally get successfully preserved, although at heavy cost. This type of diligence clearly demonstrates that the narrative was more likely than not real and needed to be saved at all cost, in their mind, and needed to be destroyed at all costs in the minds of the Jews and Romans, at the time, a further indication to suspect that the narrative was likely real. Additionally, there is a Roman writing just 1-3 years after the crucifixion of Jesus that's trying to rebut passages described in the Bible. Thus, in the given context, that Christians were being persecuted at the time, there were earlier writings than the one that was finally able to be preserved, but they were lost or destroyed, due to the pressured filed environment that the Christians faced at the given time.

The context just simply rules out that superstition and gullibility could account for the given narrative. The followers were dejected and demoralized, because of Jesus's crucifixion. The guards were placed, due to a prophecy that was important to His followers and to prevent the body from being stolen, meaning that people were very skeptical. Mary, Mother of Jesus, Mary Magdalene, and Martha were going to the tomb expecting to be able to embalm a body. The followers of Jesus then dispirited the women, as was customary, and proceeded to verify their claims for themselves. The context indicates that the followers were neither concerned or expecting anything from the prophecy and had dismissed it, due to Jesus's crucifixion. They only went to investigate and their mood was shifted by finding something that they didn't expect to find; or, they were looking to discredit the women more than anything else.

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#27676  Edited By King Saturn

What is the point of this Earth and Universe if GOD's abode is in Heaven and it's perfect there ? Why did GOD create this reality if it's just temporary and filled with problems when GOD's abode is supposed to be eternal and perfect ?

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What is the point of this Earth and Universe if GOD's abode is in Heaven and it's perfect there ? Why did GOD create this reality if it's just temporary and filled with problems when GOD's abode is supposed to be eternal and perfect ?

Yeah, how could something imperfect be created from perfection? Isn't Noah and the Ark a symbol he messed up?

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#27678  Edited By Cable_Extreme

@dshipp17:

That is because you're being deliberately obtuse. One basis to take the Bible seriously is that the Bible has always been successfully validated in all it's claims that are still capable of being validated. Another is that the Romans validated that Jesus existed in their attempts to rebut and make claims that the Jews were considered superstitious. You can't switch from reality to some imaginary world that supports what you'd prefer others to believe to line up with your life to rebel against the way you were raised as a Christian.

Your point is irrelevant to supporting supernatural claims it has made. I am sure the writers believed in the supernatural due to the lack of scientific literacy. It does not mean that the claims of the supernatural are true just because certain things within the bible had historic references.

The explanation that you presented, that the body was stolen by His followers, was addressed through the use of logic, using the context of the situation and some detective work. You can't now just alter reality to invent some other possibility.

Of course, there are many things and many problems that current science has no answer for or can't solve. A trained scientist would see things differently, then trying to limit themselves into what we currently know. As a trained scientist, I look to extend the boundaries in order to invent new knowledge; you can't stay within the boundaries; you have to have one foot placed in what we currently can know and place the other foot into exploring ways to advance science; clearly, you're only trying to save face.

I am not claiming his followers stole his body, only that it is a potential possibility. This conversation also assumes these events happened which I am not entirely convinced of. The Qur'an has the story played differently with God switching Jesus with another person and that there was no resurrection. That God did not allow one of his prophets to be crucified. Muslims will present their historical evidence through religious text to argue this case. What makes your claim that the bible is true in this account? And why should I believe that a supernatural event occurred? We have two religious text claim different things happened, to believe either requires complete faith.

Surah An-Nisa [4:157-158] And [for] their saying, "Indeed, we have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the messenger of Allah ." And they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him; but [another] was made to resemble him to them. And indeed, those who differ over it are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it except the following of assumption. And they did not kill him, for certain.

Which account are we to believe and why? Why believe either?

Sure, but that doesn't mean that it was them, the followers of Jesus, who removed, as evidenced by the established context.

Doesn't mean it wasn't moved by them. This of course assumes this part of the story actually happened. If the stone actually was moved, it is far more likely someone moved it than a supernatural event occurred.

Given that the Bible has been validated many times over the years, any reasonable mind would assume that the narrative is accurate and true. And it's provided by people trying to project a moral character and impression, where one is to be truthful at all times rather than deceptive, as the villain of the Bible is rooted in deception and lying.

The Romans would get word, once the solders regained consciousness and reported back, obviously; or, the lesser likely, they never reported back; both would have left the the Romans in a state seeking retribution against the followers of Jesus; and the Jews were a source of reminder for them.

No, the most reasonable likelihood would be that they were later crucified for the reasons given in the Bible, as they are extensions of the reasons that Jesus was crucified; the Romans would not have waited years to decades later to extract retribution. Just be reasonable with yourself. To be skeptical that it ever happened would only be reasonable, if the Bible were notoriously inaccurate and almost never validated; but, that isn't real reality.

The bible has not been validated in terms of supernatural explanations, only in historical referencing. After all it was written in that time, doesn't have any validation that the supernatural events occurred. The Qur'an is stated to be perfect, validated, and absolutely the word of God (or so Muslim's claim). The bible is claimed by Christians in the same manner. There are many inconsistencies/contradictions in the bible that people claim are a problem of translation through the 2000 or so years. If that is true, what makes any part of it trustworthy? I can list many contradictions in the bible, they are painted all over the internet.

The first writings of the Bible that could be successfully preserved occurred around 30-37 years, after Jesus ascended into Heaven. But, it wasn't due to a preference towards oral tradition, rather than writing. The Christians were being increasingly persecuted by the Jews and the Romans, at the given time and in the given context; thus, given the context, it would be safe to assume that there were likely earlier writings available immediately preceding the earliest written sample that could be preserved that was relied upon, in order to make the writings; it would have been these writings that supported the writings that could finally get successfully preserved, although at heavy cost. This type of diligence clearly demonstrates that the narrative was more likely than not real and needed to be saved at all cost, in their mind, and needed to be destroyed at all costs in the minds of the Jews and Romans, at the time, a further indication to suspect that the narrative was likely real. Additionally, there is a Roman writing just 1-3 years after the crucifixion of Jesus that's trying to rebut passages described in the Bible. Thus, in the given context, that Christians were being persecuted at the time, there were earlier writings than the one that was finally able to be preserved, but they were lost or destroyed, due to the pressured filed environment that the Christians faced at the given time.

So your belief relies on an assumption?

The context just simply rules out that superstition and gullibility could account for the given narrative. The followers were dejected and demoralized, because of Jesus's crucifixion. The guards were placed, due to a prophecy that was important to His followers and to prevent the body from being stolen, meaning that people were very skeptical. Mary, Mother of Jesus, Mary Magdalene, and Martha were going to the tomb expecting to be able to embalm a body. The followers of Jesus then dispirited the women, as was customary, and proceeded to verify their claims for themselves. The context indicates that the followers were neither concerned or expecting anything from the prophecy and had dismissed it, due to Jesus's crucifixion. They only went to investigate and their mood was shifted by finding something that they didn't expect to find; or, they were looking to discredit the women more than anything else.

All you need to do is repeat what you type outloud to hear the bias in this statement. Stating the context simply rules out superstition and gullibility while continuing to use biblical scripture to verify it's trustworthiness is highly illogical. That would be exactly like me reading a book that claims aliens made us, and when I get questioned about how I know, I simply read more scripture while saying "look here", it says so "right here". Personal accounts written often a generation after the event by people the stories were verbally passed down to is not sufficient evidence to justify beliving in the supernatural. Especially since such events no longer happen in today's age when we have the capability to measure and record such incidents.

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#27679  Edited By dshipp17

@cable_extreme:

“I am not claiming his followers stole his body, only that it is a potential possibility. This conversation also assumes these events happened which I am not entirely convinced of. The Qur'an has the story played differently with God switching Jesus with another person and that there was no resurrection. That God did not allow one of his prophets to be crucified. Muslims will present their historical evidence through religious text to argue this case. What makes your claim that the bible is true in this account? And why should I believe that a supernatural event occurred? We have two religious text claim different things happened, to believe either requires complete faith.”

Some of these supposed questions and concerns have been addressed several times now, demonstrating that you aren't listening to what you're being told in any genuine sense. Of course it assumes that the events happened. Both the history of the Bible being confirmed as true and the climate in which the early Christians were subjected to proves that it was true. Further, the study of history does not question the existence of Jesus to such a degree as to rule out a described event altogether; for the study of valid history, unless there is some contrary compelling reason presented to allow us to believe otherwise, what is described should be believed; further, no other written account from history has the painstaking effort to have it preserved in anywhere close to the way the Gospels have been treated, a reaffirming factor for the validity of the Bible. Further, crucifixions were a form of execution in the time period described, something that wouldn't be expected for some type of writing that you would prefer be assigned to the Bible. Questioning rather the events even happen wrecks of desperation.

Here, you're displaying your irrational bias. You want to question the accuracy of the Bible, because you want to believe that the text was written down 30 years later, at the earliest, and about 200 years later, at the latest; but, now you're bent on accepting a writing made more than 630 years later as possibly being more accurate than if the written Gospel had occurred at the time of the described events, something that is totally contrary to the way credible history is treated. It's sounding like you're confusing any ability to find evidence for yourself, after originally claiming that you needed/wanted evidence, as this is occurring after several rounds of exchanges now, were evidence was presented to you and then clarification was provided.

For one thing, the Quran isn't denying it altogether, just altering the story, to your point, but not really mine, as it is above. Further, the context just shows that Jesus arose from the dead. Until I come across something that would cause me to question what the early Christians said occurred after Jesus's crucifixion, the Gospels describe pretty explicitly what happened. Further, after the resurrection, Jesus reaffirms that He had risen, citing the prophecy that resulted in the Romans guarding His tomb.

The reason that I don't accept the Quran is that the Bible warned me of future false prophets that would come before Jesus made a return, where He would then be the true conclusion or additional for the Bible, and that nothing should be added or taken away from the Bible, in the interim; additionally, if I were to take this rhetorical question to its logical conclusion, the question for your answer would be your response to: why aren't you taking the Book of Mormons as serious as you would have to take the Quran, in order to dismiss both the Bible and the Book of Mormons for reaffirming Jesus, where it is actually the Quran that is only a writing with nothing supporting it, in relation to what played out, leading up to the crucifixion of Jesus? Would it be that the Book of Mormons reaffirms the Gospels as narrated by the Bible?

You're only bringing the Quran into the conversation as a means of saving face, as your exploration for evidence which you claimed to be seeking is lost and confused; it would be safer to say that you probably were not and are not actually seeking evidence that you claim to need. Here, your only objective is to create discourse with the introduction of the Quran rather than a real display of genuine uncertainty, because of what you read in the Quran; and this occurred after you threaten to start citing verses from the Quran, where, on an even earlier occasion, you were citing verses from a text used by people who desire to worship Satan.

The entity that spoke to the founder of Islam contradicted the Angel Gabriel that spoken to Mary and Joseph about the coming of Jesus; additionally, the arrival of Jesus was prophecy from the Old Testament Jewish prophets, and there were no contradictions involved that basically restated the Old Testament prophecy so as to contradict it for something with a contrary reasoning that went against it. And, again, the context in which history treats the early Christians, are a couple of other reasons. I explained that the Jews and Romans were trying to destroy the Christians' attempts to preserve the Bible in writing eliminating writings closer than about 30 years from the resurrection, while the Christians constantly kept the Bible in writing in support of the written document that was finally able to be preserved some 30-37 years later. Further, there isn't any other support for this new narrative by the Quran and the early period of the followers of Islam doesn't involve even a struggle to preserve the messaging of the Quran.

That the Gospels were being passed down orally is something that you made up out of the ether in your efforts to save face in place of gathering evidence for yourself, as you claimed to want, as you were unaware of it, which you have demonstrated; you're encountering the evidence that you asked for and then pulling stuff from the ether to invent contradictions for yourself. The context shows that the Jews and Romans were attempting to destroy writings that they suspected to be in the possession of the Christians of something that they didn't want preserved in writing; and, then, this took another form, when the Romans started persecuting both the Christians and Jews.

Additionally, you should believe the supernatural claims, because the Bible has continually proven credible and, in the context of Jesus, a few supernatural occurrences are clearly verified by the Romans; and, people have been describing their personal experiences with supernatural miracles, after evoking the prescription specified in the Bible, every since Jesus came and ascended. There are not contradictions of the Bible that has withstood the test of scrutiny or time.

“Doesn't mean it wasn't moved by them. This of course assumes this part of the story actually happened. If the stone actually was moved, it is far more likely someone moved it than a supernatural event occurred.”

No, the context of the narrative clearly establishes that there was no other possibility except either Jesus, Himself, the Angels, or both. The only other possibility was the Roman soldiers who had fainted, from being spooked, but who had left to scene, where they had no motive to remove the stone. Mary, Mother of Jesus, Mary Magdalene, and Martha found the stone rolled away ans spoke to Jesus; the followers of Jesus then went to the Tomb, after the women, in an effort to discredit them, but found the same thing. The context lays out that the Biblical narrative is the most likely explanation in our reality.

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God isn't real, and that's a fact.

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#27681  Edited By Cable_Extreme

@dshipp17:

Some of these supposed questions and concerns have been addressed several times now, demonstrating that you aren't listening to what you're being told in any genuine sense. Of course it assumes that the events happened. Both the history of the Bible being confirmed as true and the climate in which the early Christians were subjected to proves that it was true. Further, the study of history does not question the existence of Jesus to such a degree as to rule out a described event altogether; for the study of valid history, unless there is some contrary compelling reason presented to allow us to believe otherwise, what is described should be believed; further, no other written account from history has the painstaking effort to have it preserved in anywhere close to the way the Gospels have been treated, a reaffirming factor for the validity of the Bible. Further, crucifixions were a form of execution in the time period described, something that wouldn't be expected for some type of writing that you would prefer be assigned to the Bible. Questioning rather the events even happen wrecks of desperation.

I have repeatedly told you I do not question potential historical events listed in the bible. I instead am very skeptical of supernatural claims. I am not at all desperate either, if there was evidence of any religious God, I would probably start worshiping then and there. However it is very reasonable to question events that are related to folklore and supernatural nonsense. Especially if these events are being taught and accepted as true when they go against what scientist have discovered about reality.

Here, you're displaying your irrational bias. You want to question the accuracy of the Bible, because you want to believe that the text was written down 30 years later, at the earliest, and about 200 years later, at the latest; but, now you're bent on accepting a writing made more than 630 years later as possibly being more accurate than if the written Gospel had occurred at the time of the described events, something that is totally contrary to the way credible history is treated. It's sounding like you're confusing any ability to find evidence for yourself, after originally claiming that you needed/wanted evidence, as this is occurring after several rounds of exchanges now, were evidence was presented to you and then clarification was provided.

Do you really accuse an agnostic atheist of accepting the Qur'an? I am merely showing you that accounts (supposed) of eye witnessed events can easily be tainted from being orally passed down. Asking me to find evidence for myself when there is nothing more than biblical scripture shows an intense bias. I ask you why should I believe the supernatural events in the bible. You state because the book and its teachings were well preserved. How in the heck could that be convincing enough to believe that the laws of physics were suspended instead of people being gullible, mistaken, or fooled?

The entity that spoke to the founder of Islam contradicted the Angel Gabriel that spoken to Mary and Joseph about the coming of Jesus; the arrival of Jesus was prophecy from the Old Testament Jewish prophets. And, again, the context in which history treats the early Christians, are a couple of other reasons. I explained that the Jews and Romans were trying to destroy the Christians attempts to preserve the Bible in writing eliminating writings closer than about 30 years from the resurrection, while the Christians constantly kept the Bible in writing. Further, there isn't any other suport for this new narrative by the Quran and the early period of the followers of Islam doesn't involve a struggle to preserve the messaging of the Quran.

Jesus contradicts himself in the bible (the second coming of Jesus) when he states that he will return in their lifetime.

For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father’s glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what he has done. I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.” – Mt. 16:27,28

Clear contradiction for they did taste death. He has yet to come. How does your bias explain this? This also teaches that people are reward for actions which is another contradiction. But that is for another time.

That the Gospels were being passed down orally is something that you made up out of the ether in your efforts to save face in place of gathering evidence for yourself, as you claimed to want, as you were unaware of it, which you have demonstrated; you're encountering the evidence that you ask for and then pulling stuff from the ether to invent contradictions for yourself. The context shows that the Jews and Romans were attempting to destroy writings in suspected to be in the possession of the Christians of something that they didn't want preserved in writing; and, then, this took another form, when the Romans started persecuting both the Christians and Jews.

Ever played that telephone game where a message would start at one end and would be completely different when it reached the otherside of the room? Oral stories are completely unreliable. It just shows the willingness to believe in literally anything.

Additionally, you should believe the supernatural claims, because the Bible has continually proven credible and, in the context of Jesus, a few supernatural occurrences are clearly verified by the Romans; and, people have been describing their personal experiences with supernatural miracles, after evoking the prescription specified in the Bible. There are not contradictions of the Bible that has withstood the4 test of scrutiny or time.

Here is a reason I am not a Christian.

Mark 11:23-2423"Truly I tell you, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in their heart but believes that what they say will happen, it will be done for them. 24Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours.

This promise is not upheld, people will still lose their loved one despite believing completely that he will be fine. No mountains have been moved either. It is fancy words but nothing more. Pain, Suffering plague this world. Countless Christians die of cancer and persecution yet this God doesn't answer the prayers as he promised in the great commission. It is a big lie that has led to the death of people who refused medical treatment out of complete faith that God would heal them, only to die a death that could have been avoided.

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#27682  Edited By SpareHeadOne

The Holy Bible is 100% true and correct in every way.

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The Holy Bible is 100% true and correct in every way.

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@king_saturn said:

What is the point of this Earth and Universe if GOD's abode is in Heaven and it's perfect there ? Why did GOD create this reality if it's just temporary and filled with problems when GOD's abode is supposed to be eternal and perfect ?

Yeah, how could something imperfect be created from perfection? Isn't Noah and the Ark a symbol he messed up?

Yeah, sort of. I mean it shows in that story about Noah and The Flood that GOD was remorseful about creating Humans with how wickedly they was acting upon the Earth. The thing is, who created the Humans ? Who was the one who knew how Humans would behave and act once he did create them ? The answers all point to The Almighty.

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King Saturn

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The Holy Bible is 100% true and correct in every way.

Jeremiah 32:27 "I am the LORD, the GOD of all flesh. Is anything too hard for me" (ESV)

Judges 1:19 "And the LORD was with Judah, and he took possession of the hill country, but he could not drive out the inhabitants of the plain because they had chariots of iron" (ESV)

He He...

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#27687  Edited By dshipp17

@cable_extreme:

“This promise is not upheld, people will still lose their loved one despite believing completely that he will be fine. No mountains have been moved either. It is fancy words but nothing more. Pain, Suffering plague this world. Countless Christians die of cancer and persecution yet this God doesn't answer the prayers as he promised in the great commission. It is a big lie that has led to the death of people who refused medical treatment out of complete faith that God would heal them, only to die a death that could have been avoided.”

Jesus also warned that the new Christians would have to start facing hardship for His namesake, including persecution and to endure. Jesus warned that the world would hate Christians just as it hated Him.

Here, I sense that this is both to save face and may hold some truth in how you feel; perhaps you experienced an important lose, where your prayers were not answered? Because this ignores all the prayers that are answered and have been answered in the name of Jesus. It depends on who prayed the prayer. Also, the determination is made on other cosmic factors that are at play. One incident involved someone who experienced a near death experience. This person was taken to Hell and Heaven. When this soul went to Heaven, God explained that a lose was allowed to occur, because He was preserving the soul from a catastrophe. One soul may be saved, because that individual is skilled with interacting with people and saved a lot of souls by converting them to Christianity.

“Clear contradiction for they did taste death. He has yet to come. How does your bias explain this? This also teaches that people are reward for actions which is another contradiction. But that is for another time.”

No, you're just misinterpreting the verse. This is regularly addressed by church pastors. What Jesus was referring to was His death, resurrection, and ascension into Heaven.

“Asking me to find evidence for myself when there is nothing more than biblical scripture shows an intense bias. I ask you why should I believe the supernatural events in the bible. You state because the book and its teachings were well preserved. How in the heck could that be convincing enough to believe that the laws of physics were suspended instead of people being gullible, mistaken, or fooled?”

This description of the evidence shows your own lack of independent research. And, now your actions show that you want to be wrapped into a twisted spin to avoid knowing the available evidence. This isn't something that I told you in the context that you've created. And, hence, there is an abundance of evidence that's readily available to you, provided you search. A start would be the video clips that I'm been posting as a sampling of a larger pool of information that describes the evidence. Once you know, then we can discuss as we did concerning your the concept/perception of Jesus's body being stolen from the tomb, where the context proved that that was very much unlikely to have been the case. People aren't being gullible, mistaken, or fooled by people lacking a disposition towards deception; the people who communicated the information were people who's life goal or mission in life was to be honest and trustworthy and considered people who weren't a type of mortal enemy.

“I instead am very skeptical of supernatural claims. I am not at all desperate either, if there was evidence of any religious God, I would probably start worshiping then and there. However it is very reasonable to question events that are related to folklore and supernatural nonsense. Especially if these events are being taught and accepted as true when they go against what scientist have discovered about reality.”

If you had done a thorough independent research of your own into Christian, within the sphere of people most interested in Christian evidence: the scholarly Christian community, than you'd know that the Bible is the best available source that is most likely to be describing real events, even or especially where the events are supernatural in nature. Thus, by extension, we can then assume that the supernatural happened as described in the Bible, even though there is currently no way of independently validating those described events that's currently crossing my mind; however, we can project that the supernatural is possible and regularly occurs, as evidenced by church attenders regularly describing answered prayers, often of a supernatural way, similar to what is described from the time of Jesus by Jesus; from there, these incidents are reported throughout history, since the ascension of Jesus into Heaven. And, hence, the reason to be confident in the teachings of mainstream Christianity like a Baptist church.

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Cable_Extreme

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@dshipp17:

Jesus also warned that the new Christians would have to start facing hardship for His namesake, including persecution and to endure. Jesus warned that the world would hate Christians just as it hated Him.

Here, I sense that this is both to save face and may hold some truth in how you feel; perhaps you experienced an important lose, where your prayers were not answered? Because this ignores all the prayers that are answered and have been answered in the name of Jesus. It depends on who prayed the prayer. Also, the determination is made on other cosmic factors that are at play. One incident involved someone who experienced a near death experience. This person was taken to Hell and Heaven. When this soul went to Heaven, God explained that a lose was allowed to occur, because He was preserving the soul from a catastrophe. One soul may be saved, because that individual is skilled with interacting with people and saved a lot of souls.

All the people who died in the plague, holy wars, famine, child starvation (happening now). If god exist and has the power to help them (especially those who cry out for help) and he does not. What type of God does that make him?

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No, you're just misinterpreting the verse. This is regularly addressed by church pastors. What Jesus was referring to was His death, resurrection, and ascension into Heaven.

He literally told them that some of them would not taste death...

This description of the evidence shows your own lack of independent research. And, now your actions show that you want to be wrapped into a twisted spin to avoid knowing the available evidence. This isn't something that I told you in the context that you've created. And, hence, there is an abundance of evidence that's readily available to you, provided you search. A start would be the video xcliop0ws that I'm been posting as a sampling of a large pool of information that describes the evidence. Once you know, then we can discuss as we did you the concept of Jesus's body being stolen from the tomb. People are being gullible, mistaken, or fooled by people lacking a disposition towards deception; the people who communicated the information were people who's life goal or mission in life was to be honest and trustworthy and considered people who weren't a type of mortal enemy.

So you are arguing to believe because you trust people's recollecting of events that were verbally passed down to them about someone's character? That requires a lot of faith, especially since there is no scientific evidence of supernatural events, nor is the supernatural possible by our current understanding of science.

If you had done a thorough independent research of your own into Christian, within the sphere of people most interested in Christian evidence: the scholarly Christian community, than you'd know that the Bible is the best available source that is most likely to be describing real events. Thus, by extension, we can then assume that the supernatural happened as described, even though there is currently no way of independently validating those describe events; however, we can project that the supernatural is possible and regularly occur as evidenced by church attenders regularly describing answered prayers; from there, these incidents are reported throughout history, since the ascension of Jesus into Heaven. And, hence, the reason to be confident in the teachings of mainstream Christianity like a Baptist church.

You are attempting to make your position a default one, however that is definitely not the case. You say we can "assume the supernatural events happened as described" then in the same sentence say "there is currently no way to independently validate those described events". That is the problem I am having, if we cannot independently validate that supernatural events are possible, and our current understanding of the natural world makes such things impossible, we simply cannot justify believing that those supernatural events actually happened. Similar to other religions that are deemed mythology now, but were completely believed by people in the past.

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SpareHeadOne

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SpareHeadOne

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Holy Bible is 110% true and correct. The 10% accounts for all the mistakes, contradictions and mistranslations.

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COOLGUY18

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#27691  Edited By COOLGUY18
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SpareHeadOne

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Long long ago stuff came to life.

Then natural selection killed things

And creatures lost features

And that's how humans came to be

.....🎶For the media tells me so....

Tiny minded religious scum We are smart and they are dumb

Yes Media loves me. Yes Media loves me. Yes Media loves me. The media tells me so🎶

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Iron_Tiger

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#27693  Edited By Iron_Tiger

@spareheadone: Before the last Ragnarok, I was known as Baldur the Brave and Beautiful.

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SpareHeadOne

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@iron_tiger:

I was Vidar and I hid some humans in a tree so they could start this age.

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SpareHeadOne

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King Saturn

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dshipp17

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#27697  Edited By dshipp17

@cable_extreme:

“All the people who died in the plague, holy wars, famine, child starvation (happening now). If god exist and has the power to help them (especially those who cry out for help) and he does not. What type of God does that make him?”

As was already explained, God does answer prayers for Christians, provided they follow the prescription in the New Testament. As for the rest, Jesus also warned that Christians were about to face hardship and persecution for His namesake. Thus, something larger is at stake, when it comes to deciding to answer prayers. Becoming Christian has eternal ramifications in the afterlife. Thus, it is vitally important to secure your salvation where Christians will live in eternal peace and comfort and have all their tears wiped away. This means that God will explain this question, when you are in Heaven and in eternal comfort.

“He literally told them that some of them would not taste death...”

Again, this was describing their experiencing His death, resurrection, and ascension back into Heaven. Also, this still could have happened in the more literal sense: others were taken up into Heaven as Enoch was taken up into Heaven. The Bible said, at the end of the Gospels that Jesus did many more things that were not being recorded. Additionally, things were lost during Christian persecution for the next 300 years. Thus, the more sensible thing to do, at worse, is to assume that information was lost, or it was explained, but you don't know it, rather than to hope that there was some type of contradiction in perfection.

“So you are arguing to believe because you trust people's recollecting of events that were verbally passed down to them about someone's character? That requires a lot of faith, especially since there is no scientific evidence of supernatural events, nor is the supernatural possible by our current understanding of science.”

That the Gospel is entirely the product of oral tradition is an invention of your own making, where this notion was clarified as false and unlikely for you several times now. The Gospels were written down, but earlier versions were likely destroyed or lost or just have yet to be uncovered or rediscovered; these other versions were the bases for creating newer versions; I love a Christian cartoon series referred to as Storykeepers; this would give you a very good idea of what the early Christian went through and the creative ways that they adapted to their increasingly harsh surrounding in order to save the Gospels in writing. This would be a good time where a cartoon might help you start to understand what was going on, at the time and how Christians, as people, adapted to the harsh conditions.

As for supernatural events, people experience them repeatedly, often, and frequently on a day to day basis; all you have to do is go to church on Sunday; and Christian programs are literally devoted to them on networks like TBN. In the hospital environment, for example, where science and religion often intersect, doctors aren't too hesitant to have the catch phrase “it was a miracle” very often.

Again, there are many things that science can't yet explain or do, as the people who practice it are still people of limited intellect; in otherwards, or stated another way, God is beyond science, far superior in intellect, and cannot be bound to the current level of science understanding. You're just going to have to grow some in maturity in order to understand this context a little better, I suppose; you don't have to keep saving face for a bit of public perception.

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jonjizz

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#27698  Edited By jonjizz
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God is God, and if you don't believe it, God damns you.