Religion… What do you think?

i think these 2 examples pretty much sum up the trollish, mocking nature of your whole post and gave me all the reason i needed to finally, and officially, declare you an idiot.

i challenged you to see if you could do anything other than trolling or dodging questions... turns out this really is all you do.

you're an idiot.

@jonjizz:

Are you qualified to declare me an idiot?

You have just dodged all my other points? that's what you accuse me of doing.

You have made a blanket statement that cancels out my points, that's what you accuse me of doing.

You are trolling by calling me an idiot when in fact I am not an idiot as anyone can see.

I merely reflect back to you what is also true of you.

@jonjizz:

P.S.

When you accuse someone of being an idiot for reasons that you yourself are guilty of.....what does that make you?

Build me one.

@jagernutt:

only one?

Malachi 3:1-6; 8-12; 16-18:

Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the Lord of hosts.

2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

3 And he shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver: and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the Lord an offering in righteousness.

4 Then shall the offering of Judah and Jerusalem be pleasant unto the Lord, as in the days of old, and as in former years.

5 And I will come near to you to judgment; and I will be a swift witness against the sorcerers, and against the adulterers, and against false swearers, and against those that oppress the hireling in his wages, the widow, and the fatherless, and that turn aside the stranger from his right, and fear not me, saith the Lord of hosts.

6 For I am the Lord, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.

9 Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation.

10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the Lord of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.

11 And I will rebuke the devourer for your sakes, and he shall not destroy the fruits of your ground; neither shall your vine cast her fruit before the time in the field, saith the Lord of hosts.

12 And all nations shall call you blessed: for ye shall be a delightsome land, saith the Lord of hosts.

Then they that feared the Lord spake often one to another: and the Lord hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the Lord, and that thought upon his name.

17 And they shall be mine, saith the Lord of hosts, in that day when I make up my jewels; and I will spare them, as a man spareth his own son that serveth him.

18 Then shall ye return, and discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serveth God and him that serveth him not.

Time to counter Bible bot.

The Bible is immoral. (Not really coz books can't be immoral)

Remember slavery, rape, genocide, misogyny, and homophobic murder is how we got to where we are today so clearly they are great. It's only when the human race gets comfortable and lazy that they turn around and say it's bad.

God is fine with slavery, as seen in Exodus 21 which says you can buy people from your neighbors, own them as property, pass them to your children, and beat them as long as they don't die in a couple days. God outlawed eating shellfish but has never outright said "Slavery is immoral." He had a second chance with Jesus and all Jesus said was, "Slaves obey your masters, even the cruel ones." (Or was that Paul?) Even if I were in a situation where I'm giving a slave survival advice, I'd clearly state that slavery is immoral but God hasn't done that for the past 5,000 years (except He has told all of us, just not in a book) . If the Bible is his love letter to humanity, this should be so clear cut and irrefutable that there'd be no confusion and you wouldn't need to scour for another unrelated verse that you can hopefully fit into our morality with some roundabout interpretive. "Thou shalt not eat shellfish" is an idiotic law to prioritize over "Thou shalt not own people as property." The only time he has a problem with it is when the Jews are slaves, which is ironic because the whole Moses story came about from God punishing the Jews by making them slaves when they disobeyed him for something unrelated. God's okay with slavery and even used it as a tool. Explain how hard it is for God to just say slavery is wrong if he can say shrimp is bad. So slaves are bad but my shoes made by a lady who earns 1 cent a day in a factory are great.

Take a look at Deuteronomy; if a man rapes a virgin, then by law he's obligated to pay her father 50 shekels to buy her as a wife, because now she has no value as a prospective bride. Not only is it barbaric to consider women worthless just because they're not virgins, but the Bible also puts a price on them and the woman has to marry her rapist by law, so she has no say in it. Just like my cat when she was harassed by two toms. Could you imagine being bought and forced to live with the man who ruined your life? Oh, but if a man rapes a married woman, then the townspeople have to kill both of them. I guess marriage is the easy punishment, huh? Again, God was fine with this for a couple thousand years and he could have easily stuck "Thou shalt not rape" in the Ten Commandments or just said it with Jesus.

Under orders from God, the Jews went out and slaughtered the Amalakites. The common argument is that the Amalakites were killing Jews, fine, except the Jews killed Amalekite women, children, and even farm animals in an all-out genocide. "From man unto woman, from infant unto suckling, from ox unto sheep, so that the name of Amalek not be mentioned even with reference to an animal by saying "This animal belonged to Amalek". But the Jews also refer to them as purely evil beings, so at least they dehumanized the enemy first lmfao. Oh yeah, also the Jews went out and kidnapped virgins from their neighbors but God was fine with that.

We haven't even gotten into how women should stfu in church and everywhere else and how they're forced to live with spousal rape (and God places men intrinsically above women), but I think I've proven my point. That men are way better.

God watches all of this and doesn't lift a finger, because it's sore from writing the Ten Commandments , but Sodom and Gamora have homosexuality and he strikes the planet with a meteor smh. Because y'know, homosexuals deserve to die.

Even if you somehow prove that God exists, you're kidding if you think I'm worshipping him when I already worship Justin Bieber. I'd rather go to hell saying that these things are immoral instead of spending eternity in the love of a slave supporting, misogynist genocidal rape father, like Matt WitchHunty. It's hilarious to me that no one recognizes their holy book isn't that far off from militant Islam or loving Hinduism depending on how you look at it.

"Cursing" a parent is a capital punishment. No XBox for a week.

@spareheadone: !!!

Very serious post.

What was the trigger if I may ask?

@bullpr:

Actually I was being stupid as usual.

I am wicked indeed

Here is a picture of God

In the middle is God the Person.

On the left is God the Good.

On the right is God the Evil.

Notice that if you focus on one picture the other pictures are out of focus.

This is the same with your view of God in your life. Which of these do you focus on the most in your life?

If you focus on God the Good, you will never get to see God the person.

If you focus on God the Evil, you will never get to see God the person.

But if you focus on God the Person, Good and Evil will melt away and the true relationship begins.

it's interesting that almost all criminals in the us consider themselves religious, with atheists making up around 0.1% of the federal prison population.

this suggests that the religious is more likely to become a criminal, compared to the atheist.

why that is, for now it's unclear so i leave it up to your imagination entirely... but imo, this is because of the lack of an internally self-developed sense of ethics and morality that is independent of any religious doctrine, which is a characteristic of theists.

but anyway, after all our history and the evidence of theist claims about the universe being proven wrong scientifically, with religion having a negative (often deadly) influence to many innocents and for humanity, causing acts of terrorism, discrimination and intolerance, enabling systematic oppression of certain people and whatnot, why so many still believe in religion today? well as i already said, nowadays religion affects and compromises intellectually weak/vulnerable minds that lack critical thinking, and it spreads through them... sort of like a virus for minds, when you think about it, taking advantage of our many doubts, insecurities, etc.

(i googled religion being like a virus, this is what i found lol)

@jonjizz:

I agree that atheists have a stronger sense of right and wrong which is one of the main reasons they reject God.

So first they are born with a greater sense of morality. Second they judge God. Third they reject God.

This is what I think your statistics reflect.

@jonjizz: That Dawkins analogy is stupid. It claims religions work because of Heaven and Hell when historically most religions either don't have that concept or don't require a person to believe in the religion to go to the equivalent of "Heaven". And well-organized religions like Roman Catholicism or Islam are closer to the elephant in that analogy than the virus. They are complete ideologies for society, government, justice and personal relationships instead of simply a prayer here and there.

@quinlan58:

Religious people am dumb and me is smart

@spareheadone: You just summarized the entirety of the atheism sub-reddit.

@quinlan58: i don't think his analogy was stupid, without the various claims about the afterlife made by religions, any faith would be much less important to its people... all religions have that in common, what do we do when people die? most cultures turn to religion; the romans used to write reports on how the warriors of the barbarian tribes they used to fight just weren't afraid to die, they would simply charge to their deaths like mad idiots because they were convinced that they would be rewarded in the afterlife for their bravery in battle.

and no one said a religion needs to be simple or have no ideologies in order to be like a virus, it only needs to work in a similar way.

@jonjizz: The analogy implies the only thing religion does is spread itself, with no further purpose or complexity. This is untrue.

We were not alive 5 billion years ago.

We are alive now.

Life can obviously come after "death".

@spareheadone: Death is not necessarily the same as non-existance.

@quinlan58:

That's why I put it in quotes

you really think he implied religions have no purpose or complexity whatsoever?

if you interpret any analogy in such absolute terms you'll always find something wrong with them, that's not really what he said.

@jonjizz: by bringing up the elephant and then equating it with the virus, that is what Dawkins did.

@quinlan58: pertaining to the way they spread and what they DO, not what they ARE.

a religion can be complex, obviously!

what he said is that the way a religious idea spreads is not very complex... it doesn't spread because of reason, or evidence, or logic, it spreads because someone said so and people believe it.

I’d be open to there being a higher power. But Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, and all that stuff means nothing to me. Sorry.

Believing that life arose by accident and then changed into into animals and humans via a process that doesn't work, is a belief that doesn't spread because of reason, or evidence, or logic, it spreads because someone said so and people believe it.

Now, I'm not a theologian but even I can tell that you are historically off base on your understanding of "slavery" as discussed in the Old Testament. The idea of "slavery" in the hebrew culture is different than the kind of slavery that was found in Brazil, or the US, or with the Barbary Pirates in Africa. It was not involuntary - it was entered into voluntarily for a period of time, stipulated at most 6 years (unless otherwise mutually agreed on). In fact Exodus 21 indicates that Jewish people couldn't just go and capture them a slave. Mosaic law did not establish slavery, culture had already done that, it placed limits upon it. If someone had a debt or had fallen on hard times due to famine, war, death of spouse, etc. they could go to the person they owed the debt or someone wealthy enough and make a contract to be a "bondman" for a period of time. This was beneficial if you owed a debt you couldn't pay - because otherwise you would just sit in jail till you could pay off the debt which may be never. Or it was beneficial if you were desperately poor and had no means of supporting yourself. As a bondsman, you were to be taught a trade and given a small salary (less than minimum wage - but something you could save for the future). For those who choose this path - it was an option out of a very difficult set of circumstances.

Who believes that life arose by accident?

@sc: Hi☺️

Not a theologian huh. lol

Sup! Hows life?

@sc:

I'm good. I don't know if you remember, I used to manage a valet location in Atlanta and I work security also. But im considering getting into over the road truck driving soon. For a change of pace. Just to get away from everything for a while.

@jonjizz said:

it's interesting that almost all criminals in the us consider themselves religious, with atheists making up around 0.1% of the federal prison population.

this suggests that the religious is more likely to become a criminal, compared to the atheist.

What this really suggests is that you are incredibly gullible and the kind of person that an inmate might prey upon.

Ask yourself this question "Why would an inmate claim to be more religious while inside of prison than he normally would?" The answers should leap out at you, but if you don't understand I'll list them for you. 1) Breaks up the boredom - religious activities and meetings get you out of your cell. 2) Participation in certain types of groups like AA or NA can help to reduce your sentence, also an appeal to a religious experience, or a referral from a Chaplain, can help in your parole hearing, 3) Wanting to change - many a prisoner has turned to God in the hopes of trying to straighten out his life, 4) Perks - interaction with the Chaplain or ministry groups can result in more contact with family, rewards, treats, etc. that would otherwise be off limits.

@just_sayin:

Thanks. I love your interjections.

@sc:

How do you describe it?

Matthew 1:1-16; 21-25:

The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.

2 Abraham begat Isaac; and Isaac begat Jacob; and Jacob begat Judas and his brethren;

3 And Judas begat Phares and Zara of Thamar; and Phares begat Esrom; and Esrom begat Aram;

4 And Aram begat Aminadab; and Aminadab begat Naasson; and Naasson begat Salmon;

5 And Salmon begat Booz of Rachab; and Booz begat Obed of Ruth; and Obed begat Jesse;

6 And Jesse begat David the king; and David the king begat Solomon of her that had been the wife of Urias;

7 And Solomon begat Roboam; and Roboam begat Abia; and Abia begat Asa;

8 And Asa begat Josaphat; and Josaphat begat Joram; and Joram begat Ozias;

9 And Ozias begat Joatham; and Joatham begat Achaz; and Achaz begat Ezekias;

10 And Ezekias begat Manasses; and Manasses begat Amon; and Amon begat Josias;

11 And Josias begat Jechonias and his brethren, about the time they were carried away to Babylon:

12 And after they were brought to Babylon, Jechonias begat Salathiel; and Salathiel begat Zorobabel;

13 And Zorobabel begat Abiud; and Abiud begat Eliakim; and Eliakim begat Azor;

14 And Azor begat Sadoc; and Sadoc begat Achim; and Achim begat Eliud;

15 And Eliud begat Eleazar; and Eleazar begat Matthan; and Matthan begat Jacob;

16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.

And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.

22 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,

23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

24 Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife:

25 And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name Jesus.

@dshipp17:

Woohoo!!!! New Testament!!!

I thought this day would never come.

@just_sayin said:

@jonjizz said:

it's interesting that almost all criminals in the us consider themselves religious, with atheists making up around 0.1% of the federal prison population.

this suggests that the religious is more likely to become a criminal, compared to the atheist.

What this really suggests is that you are incredibly gullible and the kind of person that an inmate might prey upon.

lol am i supposed to feel bad or threatened by it? ask yourself this, why did you feel the need to tell me an inmate might prey upon me?

you can interpret this data the way you want, as i said you should... i just offered my opinion, and as a hardass atheist let me tell you, i would NEVER state to be religious, especially in prison where your own principles are basically all you have left.

Hardass Atheist is another way of saying Religious.

@jonjizz said:

@just_sayin said:

@jonjizz said:

it's interesting that almost all criminals in the us consider themselves religious, with atheists making up around 0.1% of the federal prison population.

this suggests that the religious is more likely to become a criminal, compared to the atheist.

What this really suggests is that you are incredibly gullible and the kind of person that an inmate might prey upon.

lol am i supposed to feel bad or threatened by it? ask yourself this, why did you feel the need to tell me an inmate might prey upon me?

you can interpret this data the way you want, as i said you should... i just offered my opinion, and as a hardass atheist let me tell you, i would NEVER state to be religious, especially in prison where your own principles are basically all you have left.

What I am trying to say is that a self-reporting survey of prisoners about religion may be unduly influenced due the environment of the situation.

As I thought about the interactions between prisoners and faith it made me think that you have underestimated the value of faith in society For instance, say, you were serving time, and you wanted to get your kid something for Christmas. You've got no cash and you don't even know if he knows where you are. Who would you turn to? Would you call the Atheist Club? Aren't atheists on every corner ringing a bell to raise money for Christmas presents for kids while wishing everyone "Merry Christmas"? Most likely you would sign-up with Angel Tree or Prison Fellowship or some other faith based organization to give your kid a Christmas present. Do you think atheists or people of faith helped more families in need last Christmas?

If you were a single mother about to be released from prison and your primary goal was to get on your feet as quick as possible and have your kids with you, what would you do? Call the president of the Atheist Society and ask when you can move in with your kids? Or would you look into transitional housing for ex-cons where you could get on your feet and have your kids with you. Almost all of those are faith based. To be honest with you, I can count on 1 finger the groups I've encountered over the years that weren't faith based organizations with programs to help ex-cons get on their feet.

Say you are an ex-con who has burnt a lot of bridges and your parole officer tells you have to get a job within two weeks, what will you do? Call the government? There are just tons of jobs for ex-cons in the government (sarcasm). I know what I would do. I'd ask the chaplain if there was a network of businesses that hire ex-cons. Most likely it would be connected to a Christian businessmen's organization or people motivated by their faith. How many atheists are hiring ex-cons compared to people of faith?

Let's say you've just gotten out of prison and need money for clothes to go to interviews, and your family has made it clear they don't want anything to do with you, who do you turn to for help? Do you google "People who Hate God and hand out money"? No, I imagine you would go to a religious institution or organization and ask for help.

These are just a few examples. But I hope you get the point. People of faith are on average more compassionate and generous. There are numerous of ways people of faith help those in need in their community. If these people needed to wait for atheists to step up ... well, I suspect there would be a lot more people unable to find help.

@just_sayin said:

@jonjizz said:

@just_sayin said:

@jonjizz said:

it's interesting that almost all criminals in the us consider themselves religious, with atheists making up around 0.1% of the federal prison population.

this suggests that the religious is more likely to become a criminal, compared to the atheist.

What this really suggests is that you are incredibly gullible and the kind of person that an inmate might prey upon.

lol am i supposed to feel bad or threatened by it? ask yourself this, why did you feel the need to tell me an inmate might prey upon me?

you can interpret this data the way you want, as i said you should... i just offered my opinion, and as a hardass atheist let me tell you, i would NEVER state to be religious, especially in prison where your own principles are basically all you have left.

What I am trying to say is that a self-reporting survey of prisoners about religion may be unduly influenced due the environment of the situation.

As I thought about the interactions between prisoners and faith it made me think that you have underestimated the value of faith in society For instance, say, you were serving time, and you wanted to get your kid something for Christmas. You've got no cash and you don't even know if he knows where you are. Who would you turn to? Would you call the Atheist Club? Aren't atheists on every corner ringing a bell to raise money for Christmas presents for kids while wishing everyone "Merry Christmas"? Most likely you would sign-up with Angel Tree or Prison Fellowship or some other faith based organization to give your kid a Christmas present. Do you think atheists or people of faith helped more families in need last Christmas?

If you were a single mother about to be released from prison and your primary goal was to get on your feet as quick as possible and have your kids with you, what would you do? Call the president of the Atheist Society and ask when you can move in with your kids? Or would you look into transitional housing for ex-cons where you could get on your feet and have your kids with you. Almost all of those are faith based. To be honest with you, I can count on 1 finger the groups I've encountered over the years that weren't faith based organizations with programs to help ex-cons get on their feet.

Say you are an ex-con who has burnt a lot of bridges and your parole officer tells you have to get a job within two weeks, what will you do? Call the government? There are just tons of jobs for ex-cons in the government (sarcasm). I know what I would do. I'd ask the chaplain if there was a network of businesses that hire ex-cons. Most likely it would be connected to a Christian businessmen's organization or people motivated by their faith. How many atheists are hiring ex-cons compared to people of faith?

Let's say you've just gotten out of prison and need money for clothes to go to interviews, and your family has made it clear they don't want anything to do with you, who do you turn to for help? Do you google "People who Hate God and hand out money"? No, I imagine you would go to a religious institution or organization and ask for help.

These are just a few examples. But I hope you get the point. People of faith are on average more compassionate and generous. There are numerous of ways people of faith help those in need in their community. If these people needed to wait for atheists to step up ... well, I suspect there would be a lot more people unable to find help.

i find your world-view pathetic and your arguments disgustingly ignorant and biased, but you can think whatever you want as far as i'm concerned, since i'm not trying to convince you of my opinion; however since you took the trouble to write all of that, i should at least tell you what i think of it.

first of all i already know the data is influenced by unknown factors, i think anyone should be able to tell, in fact i said so myself already, so i don't know why you're repeating this but you didn't have to.

secondly, not only not everyone cares about consumerist holidays, or tries spoiling their kids with pointless gifts while they're still locked in prison, and not only most atheists wouldn't go against their principles to just be essentially bribed into following a religion, because sorry to disappoint but there are actually people with an intellectual and moral backbone, and real atheists usually need to have both of those, but also... they can just call their family or friends and ask them, and guess what that's usually what people does anyway.

thirdly, since when there are no charitable organizations outside of religious ones? is this really your worldview? wow it's pathetic! dude seriously, don't be ignorant do some research cause you're objectively wrong here, there are many secular charities that are also larger and more well-known and effective than most religious ones, but also... do you actually think religious organizations won't help atheist people in need unless they convert to that religion? what kind of charity is that? lol

so, this is what i think of your reply, but again i'm not really trying to argue with you or convince you you're wrong, so think whatever you want of it.

That sounds promising. I too recently had a nice change of pace and a big change up in my life (moving and taking a much needed vacation) truck driving sounds like it would be fun, and you'd get to see a lot of nice scenery presumably.

Glad to hear you are good!

Oh, in a few different ways, potentially. Perhaps its better to explore how you define accident in this application though? I generally avoid using accident, it carries a lot of assumptions with it, can set up false dichotomies. Not saying thats how you use the term accident in this context (hence the request to explore what you mean by accident first?)

My worldview may be ignorant to you, but it is based in reality. Religious people are more charitable people than non-religious people. In the U.S.:

Sixty-two percent of religious households give to charity of any kind, compared with 46 percent of households with no religious affiliation. (I could have quoted sources that peg it at 66-67% but I didn't want to embarass you to much).

Congregations and religious based non-profits account for 73% of all charitable giving in the US. And the number 1 motivator for giving is religious motivation- this has been consistently found in philanthropic study after study. And just so you get it - 69% of all donations from non-religious people went to religious organizations like the Salvation Army, etc.

Now, why would non-religious people donate 69% of their charitable giving to religious organizations? Because that's who is the forefront of helping people in need. Whether we are talking homeless shelters, halfway houses, food banks, flood or hurricane recovery, after school study programs, medical donations, you name it - the organizations that are most prominently helping the poor and needy are religious ones. There are some non-religious groups out there, but they are dwarfed by the number of religious based non-profits serving the community.

@sc:

A happenstance of random chance

More rare than a pair of dolphin pants

Well random chance and rare, aren't necessarily/exactly the same. Lots of rare events happen, but not because of random chance, rather the conditions and variables involved with its occurrence, is such, that the occurrence will not occur with much frequency, but it will happen. Depending on the variables and conditions, the frequency may just be an especially long period, and or fickle, or the conditions and or variables may be fickle, or require a degree of precision or nuance thats rare etc etc further complications include not knowing all the variables or conditions.

@sc:

Like the chances of a man dead for three days who at least has all the components for life within him. In the right circumstances and conditions he can be resurrected. Its not a frequent occurrence but it will happen.

@spareheadone: I don’t think someone after being beaten, nailed with wooden cross, stabbed through his heart and locked under some sort of under ground prison after being confirmed of death could have returned to life if it was just a “person”.

@chad_duby:

Depends on the variables and conditions, the frequency may just be an especially long period, and or fickle, or the conditions and or variables may be fickle, or require a degree of precision or nuance thats rare. The conditions and variables involved with its occurrence, is such, that the occurrence will not occur with much frequency, but it will happen