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#24601 Posted by J-man717 (119 posts) - - Show Bio

@jexsu said:
@j-man717 said:
@willpayton said:
@j-man717 said:

It seems that you're incapable of wrapping your head around the idea that God is all knowing lol. So of course he already knew how the world was going to turn out.

In that case God was responsible for all the evil and suffering in the world.

He punished people for breaking arbitrary rules that he created just to pad his ego and in many cases these people didnt even know about the rules, nor did they have any real chance of not breaking those rules since the outcomes were already predetermined and set up by God when he created the universe. Even if the people knew the rules, God said they all had free will, but then he punished them if they exercised that free will and made a decision that he didnt like. He just sounds like a bully and an asshole.

...

God: "Thou shall kiss me ass"

Man: "No"

God: "Then burn in Hell forever!"

Man: "WTF?"

...

No matter how you slice it, the God of the Bible is evil. The rest are just excuses and justifications for that evil.

Again, God never killed anyone unless they were beyond saving.

False. He killed Lot's Wife for looking back at the burning city of Sodom. "She disobeyed him," is not a reasonable defense, either. She and her family were far away and safe from harm. There was no need to kill her as she was merely curious as to what form of destruction Sodom underwent. The description of that event is stated to be, in one form, an earthquake, and another form, "completely consumed by fire and brimstone."

What? I seriously doubt that God didnt have a good reason for her looking back at sodom as being forbidden. Youre probably not mentioning some warning God gave to Lots wife regarding looking back at sodom or about sodom.

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#24602 Edited by dshipp17 (5531 posts) - - Show Bio

Jeremiah 7:1-7; 17-20:

The word that came to Jeremiah from the Lord, saying,

2 Stand in the gate of the Lord's house, and proclaim there this word, and say, Hear the word of the Lord, all ye of Judah, that enter in at these gates to worship the Lord.

3 Thus saith the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel, Amend your ways and your doings, and I will cause you to dwell in this place.

4 Trust ye not in lying words, saying, The temple of the Lord, The temple of the Lord, The temple of the Lord, are these.

5 For if ye throughly amend your ways and your doings; if ye throughly execute judgment between a man and his neighbour;

6 If ye oppress not the stranger, the fatherless, and the widow, and shed not innocent blood in this place, neither walk after other gods to your hurt:

7 Then will I cause you to dwell in this place, in the land that I gave to your fathers, for ever and ever.

Seest thou not what they do in the cities of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem?

18 The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger.

19 Do they provoke me to anger? saith the Lord: do they not provoke themselves to the confusion of their own faces?

20 Therefore thus saith the Lord God; Behold, mine anger and my fury shall be poured out upon this place, upon man, and upon beast, and upon the trees of the field, and upon the fruit of the ground; and it shall burn, and shall not be quenched.

Lonely George was the last Hawaiian tree snail of his kind. He died, and an entire species has gone extinct.

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#24603 Posted by Jexsu (1295 posts) - - Show Bio
@j-man717 said:

Its a chain of events thing dude. If what i said didnt make sense to you then its gonna take hours for me to explain it in a way that you can understand.

Oh, the words you used and the sentence those words belong to, make perfect sense to me. What doesn't make perfect sense to me is the "it's a chain of events thing." What exactly are these "chain of events of life?" You're here defending the notion that God exists and trying to sway us, so you should be able to answer questions without resorting to snippy "if what I said didn't make sense to you" responses.

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#24604 Edited by Jexsu (1295 posts) - - Show Bio

@j-man717 said:
@jexsu said:

False. He killed Lot's Wife for looking back at the burning city of Sodom. "She disobeyed him," is not a reasonable defense, either. She and her family were far away and safe from harm. There was no need to kill her as she was merely curious as to what form of destruction Sodom underwent. The description of that event is stated to be, in one form, an earthquake, and another form, "completely consumed by fire and brimstone."

What? I seriously doubt that God didnt have a good reason for her looking back at sodom as being forbidden. Youre probably not mentioning some warning God gave to Lots wife regarding looking back at sodom or about sodom.

Probably, as I've not read the story in ages and only remember small bits of it. Regardless, God still killed her, and she wasn't "beyond saving."

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#24605 Edited by dshipp17 (5531 posts) - - Show Bio

@spareheadone said:

@dshipp17:

It's quite simple

I presented facts that I had researched. You can get them from Wikipedia any time and trace out the sources anytime. You chose not to check it out but rather to call me liar.

If you had asked for the sources without accusing me of making it up, I would have happily given them to you.

I would love to accept an apology from you since you were wrong and rude.

"It's quite simple

I presented facts that I had researched. You can get them from Wikipedia any time and trace out the sources anytime. You chose not to check it out but rather to call me liar."

You presented information that you wanted to read and believe; however, Wikipedia is not considered a credible source; had you accepted the invitation at the time, I would have explained that to you; the Christian theologians that I referenced were citing credible, scholarly, historical sources; I'm sorry you want to consider that calling you a liar, but, if a professor points this out to a student, is that calling the students liars? And, again, I think you owe me an apology, as you allowed the poster who you were communicating with to actually portray a false narrative about me, when it was actually you who jump in without any sources backing yourself and never brought the sources until now, but in the context of pasting a false narrative about me and my character; not to mention that you know I'm a Christian and you're trying to perpetuate the false perception that it's ok to believe that the Bible copied mythical material to confuse those who may not know any better and who also may not understand that I'm advising people to go and research material that they see concerning the Bible, as presented by scholarly Christian sources, albeit usually in the context of YouTube clips.

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#24606 Posted by SpareHeadOne (6313 posts) - - Show Bio

@dshipp17:

Now I know why you will never have a wife

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#24607 Posted by dshipp17 (5531 posts) - - Show Bio

@dshipp17:

Now I know why you will never have a wife

Well, I apologize and God bless you, if you feel that way; are you trying to forward a word curse on my marriage prospects or something?

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#24608 Posted by willpayton (22083 posts) - - Show Bio

@j-man717 said:
@willpayton said:
@j-man717 said:

-A lot of stuff can be faked lol, for all we know the text books are full of lies. They teach evolution, which is a lie. So the jews being murdered could be a lie/cover up.

The idea of the big bang makes less sense than there being a creator.

The jews being murdered could be a cover up. You just wont admit it because it proves im right.

I bet if i had mentioned how 9-11 was a confirmed cover up for proof instead, you would have agreed. Youre a sheep whose been hypnotized into defending the textbooks no matter what. Sad.

This thread gets worse and worse.

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#24609 Edited by Iron_Tiger (469 posts) - - Show Bio
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#24610 Posted by willpayton (22083 posts) - - Show Bio

@willpayton: Rotf. He seriously wrote that? Wow.

Yeah I dont even know what's going on here anymore. The science denial is just par for the course, so no big deal. But now we're getting into Holocaust denial and 9/11 government conspiracies.

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#24611 Posted by Iron_Tiger (469 posts) - - Show Bio
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#24612 Posted by SpareHeadOne (6313 posts) - - Show Bio

@dshipp17:

I offer you this word of prophecy

The Lord Jesus says to you " Until you learn to know yourself and identify your pride you will not marry.

When you are humble and admit your mistakes and you lift others up higher than yourself, then you will marry."

There is your curse and your blessing.

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#24613 Posted by Iron_Tiger (469 posts) - - Show Bio

When religious individuals state, "Atheists know God exists, they just hate him," it's a clear sign of desperation.

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#24614 Posted by SpareHeadOne (6313 posts) - - Show Bio
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#24615 Posted by Iron_Tiger (469 posts) - - Show Bio

@spareheadone: That all religions are a cult to cause fear in others for personal gain.

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#24616 Posted by SpareHeadOne (6313 posts) - - Show Bio
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#24617 Posted by Ready_4_Madness (16616 posts) - - Show Bio

I think religion was created to separate and control people.

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#24618 Posted by SpareHeadOne (6313 posts) - - Show Bio
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#24619 Posted by Ready_4_Madness (16616 posts) - - Show Bio
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#24620 Posted by Jexsu (1295 posts) - - Show Bio

In slight humor, Jesus is sort of a dick.

  • Matthew 17:27 // He passive-aggressively tells Peter to go fishing, and with every fish he caught, a coin would be in its mouth for Peter to pay taxes with to Caesar. Peter would pay Caesar with fish-stank coins. Makes me wonder why Caesar didn't kill him right then and there.
  • Matthew 21:12-13 // Jesus hulks-out at some non-worshiping people whom were using a temple to moneylender and sell animals. Jesus flips over tables and cause a ruckus in a not-very-Jesus-like manner, guarding the temple doors so no one else enter.
  • Mark 11 // Jesus destroyed a fig tree by cursing it, because it wasn't in-season; no fruit would grow on it. Not to mention there was bad weather, and "God's" naturally planted tree was just not ready to defend against Jesus' temper-tantrum.
  • Mark 4 // Jesus loves parables, but he also admits he's purposely making stuff hard for people. He's basically saying he can't speak normally, or without riddles, because then people would know the secret to getting into Heaven; in a way, he wants people to spend their life contemplating this secret, even if it kills them.
  • Matthew 15 // Jesus is really gross and refuses to wash his hands. He's doing so because people apparently break the laws of "God" and stick to tradition. And because they wash their hands, which is honoring their father and mother, they are nullifying "God's" command. As if that makes any sense...
  • Mark 8:23 & John 9:6 // Jesus straight-up enjoys spitting on peoples and hocking loogies on the ground to make and rub mud on the eyes of blind people in order to heal them. If he can just touch someone and heal their deformities, there's really no need to spit on them.
  • Matthew 8 // So, about 2,000 pigs were eatin', crappin' and hanging out in a field, but a couple overhead but didn't really care for a conversation going on between a dude and two thugs. Suddenly, out of nowhere, demons appeared and scared all the pigs to the point of forcing them off a cliff to their death.

Lmao. Okay.

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#24621 Posted by just_sayin (3468 posts) - - Show Bio

@iron_tiger said:

@willpayton: Rotf. He seriously wrote that? Wow.

Yeah I dont even know what's going on here anymore. The science denial is just par for the course, so no big deal. But now we're getting into Holocaust denial and 9/11 government conspiracies.

Willie, speaking of science denial. Since Borde, Guth, and Vilenken mathematically proved that any universe (or multiverse) that is on average inflating as our universe is, can not be eternal and therefore must have a beginning and are therefore not "null geodesic", why do you believe in mathematically implausible causes for the beginning of the universe? I'm just sayin' that you talk a lot about the superiority of science, but when science conflicts with your own views - you retreat to invisible intangible belief systems with no evidence at all and much evidence against them. Why are you a science denier?

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#24622 Posted by SpareHeadOne (6313 posts) - - Show Bio

I have translated the first verse of the Bible two Hebrew letters at a time. Below is an example of what I did.

  • · בְּרֵאשִׁית בָּרָא אֱלֹהִים אֵת הַשָּׁמַיִם וְאֵת הָאָרֶץ
  • · example
  • · בְּרֵ= Bar which is Son
  • · רֵא=Raah which means to See

...etc

son, see, fire, gift, actual, ark,

son, see, AA, God,

no, woe, ocean/Yam, what/that, actual/with, chaos,

the teeth, name, who, ocean/Yam, (bondage to decay,)(hook/ And), actual/with, Chaos,

Behold here it is, firm, a peice.

Translation

See the Son burn and the gift of the actual ark. See the Son twice God

There shall be no mourning for Yam, the actual Abyss.

The consuming Maw whose name is Yam is captured and put in bondage in the actual Abyss.

And behold here it is! A firm piece

Brief Explanation

The Son was the Lamb of God slain before the foundation of the earth. Rev 13. Gen 22.

The ark is the "God Seed" sent forth, from which The Son grows again. (A seed profits nothing unless it falls to the earth and dies)

When he grows again he becomes Twice God. (Resurrected Christ)

The body of The Son Becomes the material used to create the heavens and earth.

Yam is the serpent and the waters. When the Son was pierced, Waters came out. John 19:34, 1Corinthians 10:43, Numbers 20:11,

Exodus 17:6, Isaiah 48:21

Yam is also the underworld and as the serpent he is put in bondage. The throwing down and binding of Satan.

God brings land up above the water. The land used to be the body of The Son, The water used to be the in the body of The Son, The evil Yam was part of the psyche of The Son.

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#24623 Posted by Jexsu (1295 posts) - - Show Bio

What's strange is that the Bible isn't exactly clear on its messages, especially with all its parables and verses. If "God" truly existed, and was as powerful as people claim him to be, he wouldn't need a Prophet to carry out his voice. He could very well generate the Bible in its entirety for even little kids to understand, but nope! Gotto figure out these hard riddles that one might even die before deciphering.

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#24624 Posted by SpareHeadOne (6313 posts) - - Show Bio

@jexsu:

I believe the bible is an important part of a bigger picture. I think the likes of C G Jung, Joseph Campbell, Donald Mackenzie and James Frazer had a sizeable grasp on the bigger picture and their books are worth reading.

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#24625 Posted by Jexsu (1295 posts) - - Show Bio
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#24626 Posted by SpareHeadOne (6313 posts) - - Show Bio

@jexsu:

I'm sure you could find out if you gave a crap.

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#24627 Posted by Jexsu (1295 posts) - - Show Bio
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#24628 Edited by J-man717 (119 posts) - - Show Bio

@jexsu said:
@j-man717 said:

Its a chain of events thing dude. If what i said didnt make sense to you then its gonna take hours for me to explain it in a way that you can understand.

Oh, the words you used and the sentence those words belong to, make perfect sense to me. What doesn't make perfect sense to me is the "it's a chain of events thing." What exactly are these "chain of events of life?" You're here defending the notion that God exists and trying to sway us, so you should be able to answer questions without resorting to snippy "if what I said didn't make sense to you" responses.

The chain of events I was reffering to was something else than that.

I was saying that its because of how God made every human that there is a balance of suffering between humans. How he made everything else also plays a role in the balance of human suffering. I have a lot of evidence for this, so much in fact that it would take a week to put it all down on here. Im gonna just put as much as I can.

1) Everything on earth was made in such a way that all of us humans have a perfect way to susatin life and live on earth. We have the perfect atmosphere, and natures resources (all sources of food thay we have ever used) are all something that mankind has been able to utilise to advance to where we are today (very advanced).

The big bang theory ignores all of this, and says that all of the intelligiently designed stuff that just our earth alone has, all of it came to be, by chance. That alone proves that anyone who agrees with the big bang theory refuses to use common sense/logic, as they are ignoring the obvious proof of intelligient design and assume chance made everything, when really it could never have been chance.

Because, how can something spawn from nothingness? There has to have been something before, clearly that was God. Common sense alone tells us this much.

2) Every human ever born to date (its debateable how old earth really is by the way) has been born completely different. Yet despite this, we've come VERY far as human beings.

That alone should tell you that God made every human intelligiently so that we all would advance as a species, despite the naturally occuring problems of earth, such as its lack of resources in certain parts of the earth, and other problems that it naturally has, im talking about the problems that are there without any influence by mankind whatsoever. So its just the earth itself.

3) Some people are born with extremely rare diseases that disable them from doing basic things.

Actually, thats just what we all have been tricked into believing. The truth is that for all we know, the goverment has CREATED every disease that any human has been born with. This means it's not of Gods doing.

I understand how if God just created a child who had a disease that would kill them 1 year after birth, how that would mean they will never have a chance at life and literally couldnt even have made it to the point where they did ANYTHING wrong to even be punished in any way at all.

But the problem here is we all have assumed that diseases ARENT manmade.

This is a bit off topic, but for years now its been made known that the goverment is corrupt, and is full of satanists who sacrifice children and is full of child molesters, and currently put human body parts into fast food. Do your research and you'll find countless articles, documents made by experts on this stuff.

I recommend the youtubers Richiefromboston, A Call For An Uprising, and JonxArmy, and A Plane Truth, who have been covering and exposing all of this for years now and still are to this day. Ive been watching them for years now.

All this proves that the government is pushing towards the New World Order, which is the elite's plan to kill off everyone who isnt a part of the elite or is a satanist. The bible's prophecy of end times lines up well with all of this thats been happening for many years now.

4) I was born with a severe metabolism. For all we know, a fast metabolism isnt even natural for humans to be born with and the elite created it. Who knows what evidence there is for that.

For all we know, the government gave me a fast metabolism, and that gave me all of the experiences that I have had up until now which has lead me to be making this comment here today. This could mean I am a very important puppet for them. Maybe they already have known that I was going to write this to you and post in this thread exactly right now (or around this time)...

I mean the goverment probably has been watching us through all the technology they have created and made it so that its impossible to tell on the surface that its used to spy on us and always has been.

The elite probably have so much control and power, that they can somehow manage to literally create and implant these sicknesses and all these non natural things into humans before birth.

They can be spraying the skies with disease filled chemicals using the airplanes that they make (as well as arrange things to make airplanes they dont make do the same of course) and people wouldnt (and still havent) seemed to notice or at least care.

By the way, all of the evidence in this comment is just the tip of the iceberg in terms of convincingness.

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#24629 Edited by J-man717 (119 posts) - - Show Bio

@jexsu said:
@j-man717 said:
@jexsu said:

False. He killed Lot's Wife for looking back at the burning city of Sodom. "She disobeyed him," is not a reasonable defense, either. She and her family were far away and safe from harm. There was no need to kill her as she was merely curious as to what form of destruction Sodom underwent. The description of that event is stated to be, in one form, an earthquake, and another form, "completely consumed by fire and brimstone."

What? I seriously doubt that God didnt have a good reason for her looking back at sodom as being forbidden. Youre probably not mentioning some warning God gave to Lots wife regarding looking back at sodom or about sodom.

Probably, as I've not read the story in ages and only remember small bits of it. Regardless, God still killed her, and she wasn't "beyond saving."

He killed her, but you have yet to prove he DIDNT give a fair warning first. Until you do that, youre just proving to be a desperate athiest who refuses to acknowledge the obvious.

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#24630 Posted by willpayton (22083 posts) - - Show Bio

@willpayton said:
@iron_tiger said:

@willpayton: Rotf. He seriously wrote that? Wow.

Yeah I dont even know what's going on here anymore. The science denial is just par for the course, so no big deal. But now we're getting into Holocaust denial and 9/11 government conspiracies.

Willie, speaking of science denial. Since Borde, Guth, and Vilenken mathematically proved that any universe (or multiverse) that is on average inflating as our universe is, can not be eternal and therefore must have a beginning and are therefore not "null geodesic", why do you believe in mathematically implausible causes for the beginning of the universe? I'm just sayin' that you talk a lot about the superiority of science, but when science conflicts with your own views - you retreat to invisible intangible belief systems with no evidence at all and much evidence against them. Why are you a science denier?

I dont think you understand anything in that paper, so be careful when trying to use things you dont understand to support your claims,.

As far as your other claim that science conflicts with my views... that's just false. Our universe having a beginning in no way conflicts with anything I believe. In fact, I have no beliefs about how the universe started. YOU're in the business of forming unfounded beliefs, not me.

Whether the universe had a beginning or not will do nothing for any claim about a god or the supernatural. It's entirely possible and maybe even probable that our universe is just one of many, or an infinite number, and universes are created all the time... either as "bubble universes" or as "parallel" universes that exist side by side with us. In fact there are many current theories that deal with this.

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#24631 Posted by willpayton (22083 posts) - - Show Bio

@jexsu:

I believe the bible is an important part of a bigger picture. I think the likes of C G Jung, Joseph Campbell, Donald Mackenzie and James Frazer had a sizeable grasp on the bigger picture and their books are worth reading.

@jexsu said:

@spareheadone: No idea who they are or what books they wrote.

If you're interested in mythology, I highly recommend Joseph Campbell. He wrote The Hero with a Thousand Faces and was interviewed in the excellent PBS series The Power of Myth. Both are very well worth checking out. Campbell's work has been incredibly influential and it was what inspired George Lucas to write Star Wars. Luke Skywalker is an archetypical hero in the pattern described by Campbell.

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#24632 Posted by Jexsu (1295 posts) - - Show Bio

@j-man717: Ooooooooooookay, I'll get back to you when I'm more awake.

@willpayton: Sounds interesting. I may give them a shot.

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#24633 Posted by SpareHeadOne (6313 posts) - - Show Bio

@willpayton:

I love that you know Joseph Campbell's work. I have read all 4 volumes of the masks of God. They were great.

I love picking out the mythic motifs in movies, it's lots of fun.

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#24634 Posted by willpayton (22083 posts) - - Show Bio

@willpayton:

I love that you know Joseph Campbell's work. I have read all 4 volumes of the masks of God. They were great.

I love picking out the mythic motifs in movies, it's lots of fun.

Did you ever also watch The Power of Myth? That's how I first learned about him. I loved watching that series so much. You'd think that a bunch of episodes of just two guys talking would be boring, but it was so damn fascinating.

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#24635 Posted by SpareHeadOne (6313 posts) - - Show Bio

@willpayton:

I listened to an audio of power of myth and I got the written script too. It was great. I needed the script so I could quote J C exactly when he talked about ouroboros being a symbol of the universe consuming itself. Anyone who loves Star Wars will love this show.

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#24636 Posted by willpayton (22083 posts) - - Show Bio

@willpayton:

I listened to an audio of power of myth and I got the written script too. It was great. I needed the script so I could quote J C exactly when he talked about ouroboros being a symbol of the universe consuming itself. Anyone who loves Star Wars will love this show.

With audio alone you missed all the visual stuff that accompanied Campbell' stories, like images of the heroes or gods he was talking about, ancient artwork, video of modern cultures, all kinds of stuff.

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#24637 Posted by dshipp17 (5531 posts) - - Show Bio

Jeremiah 7:21-34:

Thus saith the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel; Put your burnt offerings unto your sacrifices, and eat flesh.

22 For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices:

23 But this thing commanded I them, saying, Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and ye shall be my people: and walk ye in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well unto you.

24 But they hearkened not, nor inclined their ear, but walked in the counsels and in the imagination of their evil heart, and went backward, and not forward.

25 Since the day that your fathers came forth out of the land of Egypt unto this day I have even sent unto you all my servants the prophets, daily rising up early and sending them:

26 Yet they hearkened not unto me, nor inclined their ear, but hardened their neck: they did worse than their fathers.

27 Therefore thou shalt speak all these words unto them; but they will not hearken to thee: thou shalt also call unto them; but they will not answer thee.

28 But thou shalt say unto them, This is a nation that obeyeth not the voice of the Lord their God, nor receiveth correction: truth is perished, and is cut off from their mouth.

29 Cut off thine hair, O Jerusalem, and cast it away, and take up a lamentation on high places; for the Lord hath rejected and forsaken the generation of his wrath.

30 For the children of Judah have done evil in my sight, saith the Lord: they have set their abominations in the house which is called by my name, to pollute it.

31 And they have built the high places of Tophet, which is in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my heart.

32 Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that it shall no more be called Tophet, nor the valley of the son of Hinnom, but the valley of slaughter: for they shall bury in Tophet, till there be no place.

33 And the carcases of this people shall be meat for the fowls of the heaven, and for the beasts of the earth; and none shall fray them away.

34 Then will I cause to cease from the cities of Judah, and from the streets of Jerusalem, the voice of mirth, and the voice of gladness, the voice of the bridegroom, and the voice of the bride: for the land shall be desolate.

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#24638 Posted by SpareHeadOne (6313 posts) - - Show Bio
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#24639 Posted by willpayton (22083 posts) - - Show Bio

@willpayton:

Right!!! I'm gunna watch it!!!

Definitely should, I think you'll get something out of it even if you've listened to the audio before. I've actually been trying to find time lately to re-watch that show. I want to introduce it to my wife.

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#24640 Posted by SpareHeadOne (6313 posts) - - Show Bio
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#24641 Edited by just_sayin (3468 posts) - - Show Bio

@willpayton said:
@just_sayin said:
@willpayton said:
@iron_tiger said:

@willpayton: Rotf. He seriously wrote that? Wow.

Yeah I dont even know what's going on here anymore. The science denial is just par for the course, so no big deal. But now we're getting into Holocaust denial and 9/11 government conspiracies.

Willie, speaking of science denial. Since Borde, Guth, and Vilenken mathematically proved that any universe (or multiverse) that is on average inflating as our universe is, can not be eternal and therefore must have a beginning and are therefore not "null geodesic", why do you believe in mathematically implausible causes for the beginning of the universe? I'm just sayin' that you talk a lot about the superiority of science, but when science conflicts with your own views - you retreat to invisible intangible belief systems with no evidence at all and much evidence against them. Why are you a science denier?

I dont think you understand anything in that paper, so be careful when trying to use things you dont understand to support your claims,.

As far as your other claim that science conflicts with my views... that's just false. Our universe having a beginning in no way conflicts with anything I believe. In fact, I have no beliefs about how the universe started. YOU're in the business of forming unfounded beliefs, not me.

Whether the universe had a beginning or not will do nothing for any claim about a god or the supernatural. It's entirely possible and maybe even probable that our universe is just one of many, or an infinite number, and universes are created all the time... either as "bubble universes" or as "parallel" universes that exist side by side with us. In fact there are many current theories that deal with this.

Willie, you just were saying you didn't like the level of discourse on this thread. I am happy to have a deeper level discussion about the various cosmological theories out there and their evidentiary and mathematical shortcomings. Would you like to talk about how the math for the Hartle-Hawkings "No Boundary" Proposal doesn't work with real numbers, or the issues with proposals by Carroll, Vilenkin, Borde, or even Gott's theory that the universe created itself through time travel, I'm more than willing.

If the universe, or multiverse, or de Sitter space, et al. had a beginning, and the math suggests it did, then it must have a cause beyond itself. This is a serious problem if you don't believe in God, because you have no "cause" you can point to. You mock others for believing in something that is transcendent to this universe, unproveable, and powerful enough to create this universe, but isn't that what you are appealing to also? The only difference, from my perspective, is that I can with paper and pencil, disprove your beliefs with math. I can't by definition, disprove the existence of a god.

You have repeatedly on this thread appealed to scholarship and science, and then chose to abandon them when they did not fit your belief system. For instance, at Christmas, you claimed that Jesus was never a real person. A parade of evidence was presented from writings from Jesus' brother, his disciples, early creeds, and Greek, Roman and Jewish historians also. One thing all these diverse sources had in common was their acceptance that Jesus was a real person. You rejected the unanimous historical evidence for your own belief system, which can not point to a single ancient historical source which claims that Jesus did not exist. You my friend are a science and history denier.

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#24642 Posted by J-man717 (119 posts) - - Show Bio

@jexsu said:

@j-man717: Ooooooooooookay, I'll get back to you when I'm more awake.

@willpayton: Sounds interesting. I may give them a shot.

Awake in what sense? Literally awake like from being tired or awake as in being more "woke" to all the stuff I was talking about in my last comment?

Avatar image for jexsu
#24643 Edited by Jexsu (1295 posts) - - Show Bio
@j-man717 said:

He killed her, but you have yet to prove he DIDNT give a fair warning first. Until you do that, youre just proving to be a desperate athiest who refuses to acknowledge the obvious.

My point is not to prove "God" gave her a "warning," but that he killed her. And he did, for looking back at Sodom. "She disobeyed him" is not a reasonable defense. I'm an Apatheist with hints of Agnosticism, not Atheist. If your "acknowledge the obvious" statement is "God exists," then I'm okay with refusing that.

@j-man717 said:

Awake in what sense? Literally awake like from being tired or awake as in being more "woke" to all the stuff I was talking about in my last comment?

...sure... generally, when someone says "more awake," they mean "being less sleepy."

@j-man717 said:

The chain of events I was reffering to was something else than that.

I was saying that its because of how God made every human that there is a balance of suffering between humans. How he made everything else also plays a role in the balance of human suffering. I have a lot of evidence for this, so much in fact that it would take a week to put it all down on here. Im gonna just put as much as I can.

1) Everything on earth was made in such a way that all of us humans have a perfect way to susatin life and live on earth. We have the perfect atmosphere, and natures resources (all sources of food thay we have ever used) are all something that mankind has been able to utilise to advance to where we are today (very advanced).

The big bang theory ignores all of this, and says that all of the intelligiently designed stuff that just our earth alone has, all of it came to be, by chance. That alone proves that anyone who agrees with the big bang theory refuses to use common sense/logic, as they are ignoring the obvious proof of intelligient design and assume chance made everything, when really it could never have been chance.

Because, how can something spawn from nothingness? There has to have been something before, clearly that was God. Common sense alone tells us this much.

2) Every human ever born to date (its debateable how old earth really is by the way) has been born completely different. Yet despite this, we've come VERY far as human beings.

That alone should tell you that God made every human intelligiently so that we all would advance as a species, despite the naturally occuring problems of earth, such as its lack of resources in certain parts of the earth, and other problems that it naturally has, im talking about the problems that are there without any influence by mankind whatsoever. So its just the earth itself.

3) Some people are born with extremely rare diseases that disable them from doing basic things.

Actually, thats just what we all have been tricked into believing. The truth is that for all we know, the goverment has CREATED every disease that any human has been born with. This means it's not of Gods doing.

I understand how if God just created a child who had a disease that would kill them 1 year after birth, how that would mean they will never have a chance at life and literally couldnt even have made it to the point where they did ANYTHING wrong to even be punished in any way at all.

But the problem here is we all have assumed that diseases ARENT manmade.

This is a bit off topic, but for years now its been made known that the goverment is corrupt, and is full of satanists who sacrifice children and is full of child molesters, and currently put human body parts into fast food. Do your research and you'll find countless articles, documents made by experts on this stuff.

I recommend the youtubers Richiefromboston, A Call For An Uprising, and JonxArmy, and A Plane Truth, who have been covering and exposing all of this for years now and still are to this day. Ive been watching them for years now.

All this proves that the government is pushing towards the New World Order, which is the elite's plan to kill off everyone who isnt a part of the elite or is a satanist. The bible's prophecy of end times lines up well with all of this thats been happening for many years now.

4) I was born with a severe metabolism. For all we know, a fast metabolism isnt even natural for humans to be born with and the elite created it. Who knows what evidence there is for that.

For all we know, the government gave me a fast metabolism, and that gave me all of the experiences that I have had up until now which has lead me to be making this comment here today. This could mean I am a very important puppet for them. Maybe they already have known that I was going to write this to you and post in this thread exactly right now (or around this time)...

I mean the goverment probably has been watching us through all the technology they have created and made it so that its impossible to tell on the surface that its used to spy on us and always has been.

The elite probably have so much control and power, that they can somehow manage to literally create and implant these sicknesses and all these non natural things into humans before birth.

They can be spraying the skies with disease filled chemicals using the airplanes that they make (as well as arrange things to make airplanes they dont make do the same of course) and people wouldnt (and still havent) seemed to notice or at least care.

5. By the way, all of the evidence in this comment is just the tip of the iceberg in terms of convincingness.

1) It is by chance that it came to be, but through billions of years of evolution. The expansion of the Universe is just one of plenty of confirmations that the Big Bang Theory is promising and verified; however, there is literally no irrefutable evidence for "intelligent design" in any way, shape or form, no matter how well-spoken some dude might be -- glancing at a mountain and slapping the ol' God Sticker on it proves absolutely nothing. "People have no common sense and are illogical" and "intelligent design" in the same sentence, how nauseatingly cretinous and laughably rehashed.

2) Sure, it's debatable how old the Earth truly is, but we've been given a reasonable estimation. You went from stating that the "Earth has everything made in such a way that Humans have a perfect way of sustaining life and living," to "despite Earth's naturally occurring problems, including its lack of resources in certain parts of the world, and other issues it commonly acquires," paraphrasing here. So, how can it be a perfect way of living life, when parts of the World are suffering due to their inadequate supply of food and drinkable water?

3-4) Skipping this part; you went from excusing your "God" of giving life-threatening diseases to infants, to random hogwash about the government and your "fast metabolism" -- all of which have nothing to do with our debate.

5) You've provided zero evidence for any claim you've made, nor is any of it convincing.

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#24644 Posted by SpareHeadOne (6313 posts) - - Show Bio

@jexsu:

Information and information systems in the cell are good evidence for "Intelligent Design ".

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#24645 Posted by Jexsu (1295 posts) - - Show Bio

@spareheadone: You're talking about "System Cell Biology?" If so, I haven't looked into it.

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#24646 Posted by SpareHeadOne (6313 posts) - - Show Bio

@jexsu:

There is specific information in DNA to build specific proteins which do specific jobs in the body. This specific information is TRANSCRIBED onto RNA and then TRANSLATED into an amino acid chain.

The specific information is preserved through this process but not only that; there are systems in place for adjusting the DNA information so that the proteins come out more adapted to their environment. These are EDITING processes that occur after TRANSCRIPTION.

We know of only one source for complex, specific information and complex specific information systems; Intelligent Agents.

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#24647 Edited by J-man717 (119 posts) - - Show Bio

@jexsu said:
@j-man717 said:

He killed her, but you have yet to prove he DIDNT give a fair warning first. Until you do that, youre just proving to be a desperate athiest who refuses to acknowledge the obvious.

My point is not to prove "God" gave her a "warning," but that he killed her. And he did, for looking back at Sodom. "She disobeyed him" is not a reasonable defense. I'm an Apatheist with hints of Agnosticism, not Atheist. If your "acknowledge the obvious" statement is "God exists," then I'm okay with refusing that.

@j-man717 said:

Awake in what sense? Literally awake like from being tired or awake as in being more "woke" to all the stuff I was talking about in my last comment?

...sure... generally, when someone says "more awake," they mean "being less sleepy."

@j-man717 said:

The chain of events I was reffering to was something else than that.

I was saying that its because of how God made every human that there is a balance of suffering between humans. How he made everything else also plays a role in the balance of human suffering. I have a lot of evidence for this, so much in fact that it would take a week to put it all down on here. Im gonna just put as much as I can.

1) Everything on earth was made in such a way that all of us humans have a perfect way to susatin life and live on earth. We have the perfect atmosphere, and natures resources (all sources of food thay we have ever used) are all something that mankind has been able to utilise to advance to where we are today (very advanced).

The big bang theory ignores all of this, and says that all of the intelligiently designed stuff that just our earth alone has, all of it came to be, by chance. That alone proves that anyone who agrees with the big bang theory refuses to use common sense/logic, as they are ignoring the obvious proof of intelligient design and assume chance made everything, when really it could never have been chance.

Because, how can something spawn from nothingness? There has to have been something before, clearly that was God. Common sense alone tells us this much.

2) Every human ever born to date (its debateable how old earth really is by the way) has been born completely different. Yet despite this, we've come VERY far as human beings.

That alone should tell you that God made every human intelligiently so that we all would advance as a species, despite the naturally occuring problems of earth, such as its lack of resources in certain parts of the earth, and other problems that it naturally has, im talking about the problems that are there without any influence by mankind whatsoever. So its just the earth itself.

3) Some people are born with extremely rare diseases that disable them from doing basic things.

Actually, thats just what we all have been tricked into believing. The truth is that for all we know, the goverment has CREATED every disease that any human has been born with. This means it's not of Gods doing.

I understand how if God just created a child who had a disease that would kill them 1 year after birth, how that would mean they will never have a chance at life and literally couldnt even have made it to the point where they did ANYTHING wrong to even be punished in any way at all.

But the problem here is we all have assumed that diseases ARENT manmade.

This is a bit off topic, but for years now its been made known that the goverment is corrupt, and is full of satanists who sacrifice children and is full of child molesters, and currently put human body parts into fast food. Do your research and you'll find countless articles, documents made by experts on this stuff.

I recommend the youtubers Richiefromboston, A Call For An Uprising, and JonxArmy, and A Plane Truth, who have been covering and exposing all of this for years now and still are to this day. Ive been watching them for years now.

All this proves that the government is pushing towards the New World Order, which is the elite's plan to kill off everyone who isnt a part of the elite or is a satanist. The bible's prophecy of end times lines up well with all of this thats been happening for many years now.

4) I was born with a severe metabolism. For all we know, a fast metabolism isnt even natural for humans to be born with and the elite created it. Who knows what evidence there is for that.

For all we know, the government gave me a fast metabolism, and that gave me all of the experiences that I have had up until now which has lead me to be making this comment here today. This could mean I am a very important puppet for them. Maybe they already have known that I was going to write this to you and post in this thread exactly right now (or around this time)...

I mean the goverment probably has been watching us through all the technology they have created and made it so that its impossible to tell on the surface that its used to spy on us and always has been.

The elite probably have so much control and power, that they can somehow manage to literally create and implant these sicknesses and all these non natural things into humans before birth.

They can be spraying the skies with disease filled chemicals using the airplanes that they make (as well as arrange things to make airplanes they dont make do the same of course) and people wouldnt (and still havent) seemed to notice or at least care.

5. By the way, all of the evidence in this comment is just the tip of the iceberg in terms of convincingness.

1) It is by chance that it came to be, but through billions of years of evolution. The expansion of the Universe is just one of plenty of confirmations that the Big Bang Theory is promising and verified; however, there is literally no irrefutable evidence for "intelligent design" in any way, shape or form, no matter how well-spoken some dude might be -- glancing at a mountain and slapping the ol' God Sticker on it proves absolutely nothing. "People have no common sense and are illogical" and "intelligent design" in the same sentence, how nauseatingly cretinous and laughably rehashed.

2) Sure, it's debatable how old the Earth truly is, but we've been given a reasonable estimation. You went from stating that the "Earth has everything made in such a way that Humans have a perfect way of sustaining life and living," to "despite Earth's naturally occurring problems, including its lack of resources in certain parts of the world, and other issues it commonly acquires," paraphrasing here. So, how can it be a perfect way of living life, when parts of the World are suffering due to their inadequate supply of food and drinkable water?

3-4) Skipping this part; you went from excusing your "God" of giving life-threatening diseases to infants, to random hogwash about the government and your "fast metabolism" -- all of which have nothing to do with our debate.

5) You've provided zero evidence for any claim you've made, nor is any of it convincing.

-Then your reasoning there must be emotion based, otherwise you would be using logic which would tell you that its not the fact that he killed her that matters in figuring out if what he did was fair, its about whether or not he gave her a good warning lol. This is common sense, which you must not have, given your response.

-Lol, and? We are discussing conspiracies, so it was impossible to tell what you meant exactly.

1) You display the typical close-mindedness that only a sheep could display...

Like someone else mentioned in a previous comment, there is evidence everywhere of intelligient design. DNA is just one of thousands of great examples of intelligient design.

So to say that there is no evidence at all means you must be blind or just denying the obvious evidence for some reason.

2) You paraphrased, but that didnt help you at all. You took most of what I said in that sentence and caled it paraphrasing. All you did here was took out the last few words I made in the sentence, and act like thats all I said there which makes my point in that entire sentence look illogical. You truly are desperate.

My point was that the earth and everything in it was built for mankind and the evidence is very obvious. For example, the fact that mankind has gotten as far as it has despite all of the issues the earth has is proof the earth was designed specifically for humans to live on. The fact that no other planets can sustain human life is good proof of this as well.

Its really common sense and should be obvious.

Some parts of the world are suffering due to lack of resources, but thats because of the corrupt government, which is run by evil men.

This DOES mean that God isnt helping those born in those places and suffering and probably die young too. Why that is? No clue. Its the only thing that makes no sense tbh.

3) If you read everything I said, then you would be able to connect what i said to that and see that it actually does have a lot to do with our debate. But hey, stay ignorant. Your loss.

4) Same as #3

5) Wrong. I have provided evidence for every claim Ive made, and substantial evidence at that. You are just reading only what you want to in my comments, which is proof you are, like I said earlier, just another athiest who will never stop refusing to admit to the obvious fact that there is evidence for God and a balance of suffering.

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#24648 Edited by J-man717 (119 posts) - - Show Bio

@spareheadone said:

@jexsu:

There is specific information in DNA to build specific proteins which do specific jobs in the body. This specific information is TRANSCRIBED onto RNA and then TRANSLATED into an amino acid chain.

The specific information is preserved through this process but not only that; there are systems in place for adjusting the DNA information so that the proteins come out more adapted to their environment. These are EDITING processes that occur after TRANSCRIPTION.

We know of only one source for complex, specific information and complex specific information systems; Intelligent Agents.

Yet Athiests and evolutionists will argue that we "evolved" our DNA and RNA lol. So ridiculous.

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#24650 Posted by willpayton (22083 posts) - - Show Bio

@jexsu:

There is specific information in DNA to build specific proteins which do specific jobs in the body. This specific information is TRANSCRIBED onto RNA and then TRANSLATED into an amino acid chain.

The specific information is preserved through this process but not only that; there are systems in place for adjusting the DNA information so that the proteins come out more adapted to their environment. These are EDITING processes that occur after TRANSCRIPTION.

We know of only one source for complex, specific information and complex specific information systems; Intelligent Agents.

We know of another... evolution.

Saying that life must have come from an "intelligent agent" really solves nothing, because then you have the question of where that agent came from. At some point, the original life would have come about from some evolutionary process.

But the point is really moot because there's really no evidence for an intelligent agent being the original source for DNA or the complex systems in biology.