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#24551 Posted by J-man717 (119 posts) - - Show Bio

@j-man717 said:
@willpayton said:
@j-man717 said:
@willpayton said:

In that case, that super-God is the one true god, and he's just the automaton that I described.

Not necessarily. What if he isnt an automaton, and we human beings just dont have the ability to ever understand how?

Otherwise he must be an automaton like you said.

If that's the case, then all the more reason for us to base our beliefs on facts and science and not on blind faith, beliefs based on emotions, or weak philosophical arguments.

However, the best we can do is use logic. Any system of beliefs that starts off by saying that logic doesnt always apply is pretty much shooting itself in the foot right from the beginning. Such an argument relies purely on emotions for people to believe it, since you cant back up an argument with logic if you start off assuming that logic isnt always a valid thing.

The irony lol.

You talk about logic but arent even using it here.

He created us, and obviously when you make something you give the thing your creating certain abilities. He gave us the inability to comprehend how he could possibly not be an automaton.

What you did here was you used your emotions to guide your thinking, and as a result you ignored the fact that when one creates something, they give the thing they create certain abilities and do so for a reason.

LOL... you seem to know a lot about God and what he did or didnt do and his motivations. Oh, wait, you're also claiming that God made us in such a way that we cant understand how god works. Go ahead and reconcile that for me.

Well what you did was assert the notion that God DIDNT create us in a way that we cant fully understand his existence. And you did this because you were thinking with feelings and not logic.

You have no proof that God DIDNT create us in a way that we cant understand fully his existence. And thats your fault.

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#24552 Posted by SpareHeadOne (6101 posts) - - Show Bio

@j-man717:

God drowned innocent babies in the flood

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#24553 Posted by J-man717 (119 posts) - - Show Bio

You seem to have a hate that has grown over time for the idea that God isnt evil, and so you think like a child by thinking with emotion and not reason, thus you have made the ridiculous claims that you have.

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#24554 Posted by SpareHeadOne (6101 posts) - - Show Bio

@j-man717:

"""Lol. The very first sentence of the bible states that there was nothing. After that the bible explains what God started to create. So in the beggining only God was present. And then God made everything."""

Regardless of wether you think that there was already water in the beginning or not. There was God and the Sons of God are God.

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#24555 Posted by J-man717 (119 posts) - - Show Bio

@j-man717:

God drowned innocent babies in the flood

It was for the sake of justice. He had to drown them, because he had to drown all the living things on earth as they were all wicked. The babies would have turned out wicked as they were living in a wicked world.

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#24556 Posted by J-man717 (119 posts) - - Show Bio

God even says that the innocent babies will be in heaven. Since they did nothing wrong. So that will make up for it anyways.

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#24557 Edited by dshipp17 (5486 posts) - - Show Bio

@spareheadone said:

@jexsu:

On page 359 at post 17945 we have the first thing that dshipp ever said to me.

@spareheadone said:

@jexsu:

Not just telling me I was wrong, also accused me of making things up. Otherwise known as calling me a liar.

In that post, you were invited to cite your sources for your claim; since you didn't, well, you said it, not me. I believe, as usual, people were trying to claim that the Bible borrowed it's source material and I proved that it didn't; essentially, being invited to prove that the Bible borrowed the Earth being a circle from other sources, except I showed that it wasn't the case. And, again, another lesson in keeping things in context and that poster wanting something to be true, even in the face of clear reality; he took your word for it, even though the context of the discussion proved otherwise; it was the reverse and it was actually you who said something without backing it up, where it appeared that you were joining in for the assertion that the Bible borrowed the statement that the earth was a circle from somewhere else, even though no Christian theologian agrees with it.

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#24558 Posted by Jexsu (1284 posts) - - Show Bio
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#24559 Posted by SpareHeadOne (6101 posts) - - Show Bio

@j-man717:

God killed a guy for touching his ark

God kill Ananias and sapphira for not giving all their land to the church.

God hardened Pharos heart and then God killed all of Egypts first born children even though it was God who made pharaoh refuse to let the hebs go.

God had the Israelites kill every man woman and child. Innocent babies.

God let satan blitz Job

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#24560 Posted by Jexsu (1284 posts) - - Show Bio

@spareheadone: Though I haven't read the story since I was a child, and having gone to church, God also killed a chick, turning her to either stone or salt, for looking back as a city was destroyed behind her and her family.

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#24561 Edited by J-man717 (119 posts) - - Show Bio

@spareheadone said:

@j-man717:

God killed a guy for touching his ark

God kill Ananias and sapphira for not giving all their land to the church.

God hardened Pharos heart and then God killed all of Egypts first born children even though it was God who made pharaoh refuse to let the hebs go.

God had the Israelites kill every man woman and child. Innocent babies.

God let satan blitz Job

-God didnt have a ark, noah did. If you mean that God killed a guy for having someone touch noah's ark, then its because the guy was wicked. Remember that when noah made his ark, all humans on earth were wicked and so wicked that they deserved to die (this is why God flooded earth).

-Bible verse?

-Ok, how exactly did God kill all of those children? Did he influence people so that the children died? Or did he just make them die in a snap? How God killed them says a lot about how he maintains the balance of justice between his creations.

-Same as above point. God had the isrealites kill innocents? What? That was the israelites acting on there own accord and free will. God may have had some influence here and there but he never forced anyone to do anything, he only influenced things so that certain things would play out a certain way, and always for justice.

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#24562 Posted by SpareHeadOne (6101 posts) - - Show Bio

@jexsu:

Yeah Lot's wife. Plenty more where that came from

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#24563 Posted by SpareHeadOne (6101 posts) - - Show Bio

@j-man717:

The ark of the covenant

It's in Acts somewhere probably around Chapter 5.

He sent the spirit of death to kill them.

Not only did God want all women and children killed, but he punished the Hebrews for having mercy on some of them.

Justice does not erase evil. It just means that evil was committed for justice sake

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#24564 Posted by SpareHeadOne (6101 posts) - - Show Bio

@dshipp17:

It's quite simple

I presented facts that I had researched. You can get them from Wikipedia any time and trace out the sources anytime. You chose not to check it out but rather to call me liar.

If you had asked for the sources without accusing me of making it up, I would have happily given them to you.

I would love to accept an apology from you since you were wrong and rude.

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#24565 Posted by Jexsu (1284 posts) - - Show Bio

@jexsu:

Yeah Lot's wife. Plenty more where that came from

Yep, you're right. The city was Sodom. Ouch.

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#24567 Posted by willpayton (22083 posts) - - Show Bio

@j-man717 said:

You have no proof that God DIDNT create us in a way that we cant understand fully his existence. And thats your fault.

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#24568 Posted by willpayton (22083 posts) - - Show Bio

@j-man717 said:
@spareheadone said:

@j-man717:

God drowned innocent babies in the flood

It was for the sake of justice. He had to drown them, because he had to drown all the living things on earth as they were all wicked. The babies would have turned out wicked as they were living in a wicked world.

It's amazing how people justify evil acts, mass murder, and genocide.

Hey, those babies and innocent people and animals all had it coming, because they would be bad anyway... cause I say so. Yeah.

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#24569 Posted by J-man717 (119 posts) - - Show Bio

@j-man717:

The ark of the covenant

It's in Acts somewhere probably around Chapter 5.

He sent the spirit of death to kill them.

Not only did God want all women and children killed, but he punished the Hebrews for having mercy on some of them.

Justice does not erase evil. It just means that evil was committed for justice sake

Well then whoever was killed for touching the ark was probably told not to touch it, which is a fair warning. Is there any proof of God giving a warning to not touch the ark? Thats the only way to tell if him killing that man was just or not.

Well the children were then to have grown up to become very wicked, otherwise God wouldnt have killed them as a punishment towards Pharo. And how did God make Pharo refuse to let the hebs go? He wouldnt force Pharo to refuse to let the hebs go, as that would be unjust and God plays fair. He only influences, he never forces.

With or without fair warning? Even if without it, his punishment towards them was probably for the justice of all (for the greater good of all)

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#24570 Posted by J-man717 (119 posts) - - Show Bio

@j-man717 said:
@spareheadone said:

@j-man717:

God drowned innocent babies in the flood

It was for the sake of justice. He had to drown them, because he had to drown all the living things on earth as they were all wicked. The babies would have turned out wicked as they were living in a wicked world.

It's amazing how people justify evil acts, mass murder, and genocide.

Hey, those babies and innocent people and animals all had it coming, because they would be bad anyway... cause I say so. Yeah.

They WOULD be bad anyways, because the world was completely wicked and had gone down the shithole. God already knew what was going to happen if he didnt flood the world. If he didnt, the whole world would be hell for every living thing on it, as every living thing would be so corrupt on their own accord.

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#24571 Posted by Jexsu (1284 posts) - - Show Bio

@j-man717 said:

You have no proof that God DIDNT create us in a way that we cant understand fully his existence. And thats your fault.

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence," and in this case, "claiming that God exists requires the claimer to provide evidence." It doesn't work when someone has to prove something that doesn't exist, doesn't exist.

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#24572 Posted by SpareHeadOne (6101 posts) - - Show Bio

@j-man717:

God sent spirits to lie to people

God got Jacob to lie to his Dad

God puts a veil over people so they can't believe in him.

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#24573 Posted by J-man717 (119 posts) - - Show Bio

@j-man717:

God sent spirits to lie to people

God got Jacob to lie to his Dad

God puts a veil over people so they can't believe in him.

All for the greater good.

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#24574 Posted by J-man717 (119 posts) - - Show Bio

God has to make things difficult for us because we chose to suffer just like you said.

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#24575 Posted by SpareHeadOne (6101 posts) - - Show Bio

@j-man717:

You should make sure to read my two blogs. You need to know that good and evil are the wrong focus and we should focus on God rather than morals. That's where eating the fruit messed us up.

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#24576 Posted by Jexsu (1284 posts) - - Show Bio
@j-man717 said:

God has to make things difficult for us because we chose to suffer just like you said.

There's a small issue with that, or a grand issue, depending on how you look at it. Are you implying that each individual person suffers because they chose to suffer? Are you also implying that God pre-judges us before he creates us, even though he automatically knows what we choose to do with ourselves?

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#24577 Posted by J-man717 (119 posts) - - Show Bio

@j-man717:

You should make sure to read my two blogs. You need to know that good and evil are the wrong focus and we should focus on God rather than morals. That's where eating the fruit messed us up.

What? Good and evil are what we use to focus on God in the first place.

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#24578 Edited by J-man717 (119 posts) - - Show Bio

@jexsu said:
@j-man717 said:

God has to make things difficult for us because we chose to suffer just like you said.

There's a small issue with that, or a grand issue, depending on how you look at it. Are you implying that each individual person suffers because they chose to suffer? Are you also implying that God pre-judges us before he creates us, even though he automatically knows what we choose to do with ourselves?

No. I was actually refferring to how someone said that we were God, as in we were/are God in the sense that we are all parts of him. And imperfect parts of him at that. So we chose to suffer as suffering is the only way to improve for us, and God turned us into human beings so that we could suffer in ways that would help us grow.

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#24579 Posted by SpareHeadOne (6101 posts) - - Show Bio

@jexsu:

Each individual person was part of a single entity. This single entity made the choice.

We are still part of that single entity.

Parts of us wish we could take it all back, just like Jesus wished The Father would take the cup of suffering from him.

Yes God prejudged is before he makes us. Some are created to be destroyed and then become one of Christs arse hairs or something. That is the purging process of evil.

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#24580 Posted by SpareHeadOne (6101 posts) - - Show Bio

@j-man717:

Remember God didn't want Adam and Eve to eat the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil. It made them worry about morals rather than their relationship with God

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#24581 Posted by J-man717 (119 posts) - - Show Bio

@jexsu:

Each individual person was part of a single entity. This single entity made the choice.

We are still part of that single entity.

Parts of us wish we could take it all back, just like Jesus wished The Father would take the cup of suffering from him.

Yes God prejudged is before he makes us. Some are created to be destroyed and then become one of Christs arse hairs or something. That is the purging process of evil.

True. We all have a destiny of course, as we all were made differently so that we each make a unique contribution to justice, in our own way. Thats why some people are born with disabilities and some arent. Thats why theres different races and genders. Every thing has a role and purpose and all is balanced out so that justicd will prevail in the end, just as God has promised us

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#24582 Posted by Jexsu (1284 posts) - - Show Bio

@jexsu:

Each individual person was part of a single entity. This single entity made the choice.

We are still part of that single entity.

Parts of us wish we could take it all back, just like Jesus wished The Father would take the cup of suffering from him.

Yes God prejudged is before he makes us. Some are created to be destroyed and then become one of Christs arse hairs or something. That is the purging process of evil.

God: Hello, my son. I designed and created you so that I could destroy you... or somethin'... c'mere!

Son: What?! Screw yo--

God atomizes his son.

God: Oh me, that felt sooooooooo goooooooooooood. /orgasms

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#24583 Edited by J-man717 (119 posts) - - Show Bio

@jexsu said:
@spareheadone said:

@jexsu:

Each individual person was part of a single entity. This single entity made the choice.

We are still part of that single entity.

Parts of us wish we could take it all back, just like Jesus wished The Father would take the cup of suffering from him.

Yes God prejudged is before he makes us. Some are created to be destroyed and then become one of Christs arse hairs or something. That is the purging process of evil.

God: Hello, my son. I designed and created you so that I could destroy you... or somethin'... c'mere!

Son: What?! Screw yo--

God atomizes his son.

God: Oh me, that felt sooooooooo goooooooooooood. /orgasms

Hes never created any sentient beings and destroyed them unless it would be for justice in the end.

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#24584 Edited by Jexsu (1284 posts) - - Show Bio
@j-man717 said:
@spareheadone said:

@jexsu:

Each individual person was part of a single entity. This single entity made the choice.

We are still part of that single entity.

Parts of us wish we could take it all back, just like Jesus wished The Father would take the cup of suffering from him.

Yes God prejudged is before he makes us. Some are created to be destroyed and then become one of Christs arse hairs or something. That is the purging process of evil.

True. We all have a destiny of course, as we all were made differently so that we each make a unique contribution to justice, in our own way. Thats why some people are born with disabilities and some arent. Thats why theres different races and genders. Every thing has a role and purpose and all is balanced out so that justicd will prevail in the end, just as God has promised us

I don't see how people suffering from cancer are contributing to justice in their own way. That would be your God's way of giving someone the middle finger... for absolutely no reason, whatsoever.

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#24585 Edited by J-man717 (119 posts) - - Show Bio

@jexsu said:
@j-man717 said:
@spareheadone said:

@jexsu:

Each individual person was part of a single entity. This single entity made the choice.

We are still part of that single entity.

Parts of us wish we could take it all back, just like Jesus wished The Father would take the cup of suffering from him.

Yes God prejudged is before he makes us. Some are created to be destroyed and then become one of Christs arse hairs or something. That is the purging process of evil.

True. We all have a destiny of course, as we all were made differently so that we each make a unique contribution to justice, in our own way. Thats why some people are born with disabilities and some arent. Thats why theres different races and genders. Every thing has a role and purpose and all is balanced out so that justicd will prevail in the end, just as God has promised us

I don't see how people suffering from cancer are contributing to justice in their own way. That would be your God's way of giving someone the middle finger...

Stop nitpicking already. Those with cancer are born with it so that others will gain something from it that they never could gain any other way.

For example, those born with cancer will be born with it so that it will give a person ideas and the inspiration to find a cure for cancer or maybe to do things that need to be done that only they have the advantages to do.

Those born with cancer will have advantages that others will never get to have, and those born with no cancer will have there share of suffering as well. All is balanced and God created everything and everyone so that there is a balance. Its extremely complex.

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#24586 Posted by willpayton (22083 posts) - - Show Bio

@j-man717 said:
@willpayton said:
@j-man717 said:
@spareheadone said:

@j-man717:

God drowned innocent babies in the flood

It was for the sake of justice. He had to drown them, because he had to drown all the living things on earth as they were all wicked. The babies would have turned out wicked as they were living in a wicked world.

It's amazing how people justify evil acts, mass murder, and genocide.

Hey, those babies and innocent people and animals all had it coming, because they would be bad anyway... cause I say so. Yeah.

They WOULD be bad anyways, because the world was completely wicked and had gone down the shithole. God already knew what was going to happen if he didnt flood the world. If he didnt, the whole world would be hell for every living thing on it, as every living thing would be so corrupt on their own accord.

Lets for one minute just assume all that b.s. in the Bible is true and this happened. Ok?

Alright, so who says that those people would be bad anyways? God?

Who says the world was completely wicked? God?

Who says what would have happened if God didnt murder millions? God?

Who says God is telling the truth? God?

Hmm... I see a problem here. God, even by his own words, is a mass murderer. By his own words he's petty and capricious. By his own words he allows and condones slavery. But now we're supposed to believe when he says he's all good and truthful? Why?

Sorry, you have no logic here to support anything you're saying. You just want to believe what a mass-murderer says and you spend your time making excuses and supporting that behavior.

The God of the Bible is a terrible entity, a monster who's evil acts would make Hitler and Stalin blush. And this is all based on his own words and from the Bible... which supposedly tells us the truth of what God did. There is no way you can spin any of that shit to not be total hypocrisy and total evil from God.

Luckily, back in the real world, anyone with half a brain knows all that stuff are just stories and not real.

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#24587 Edited by J-man717 (119 posts) - - Show Bio

@j-man717 said:
@willpayton said:
@j-man717 said:
@spareheadone said:

@j-man717:

God drowned innocent babies in the flood

It was for the sake of justice. He had to drown them, because he had to drown all the living things on earth as they were all wicked. The babies would have turned out wicked as they were living in a wicked world.

It's amazing how people justify evil acts, mass murder, and genocide.

Hey, those babies and innocent people and animals all had it coming, because they would be bad anyway... cause I say so. Yeah.

They WOULD be bad anyways, because the world was completely wicked and had gone down the shithole. God already knew what was going to happen if he didnt flood the world. If he didnt, the whole world would be hell for every living thing on it, as every living thing would be so corrupt on their own accord.

Lets for one minute just assume all that b.s. in the Bible is true and this happened. Ok?

Alright, so who says that those people would be bad anyways? God?

Who says the world was completely wicked? God?

Who says what would have happened if God didnt murder millions? God?

Who says God is telling the truth? God?

Hmm... I see a problem here. God, even by his own words, is a mass murderer. By his own words he's petty and capricious. By his own words he allows and condones slavery. But now we're supposed to believe when he says he's all good and truthful? Why?

Sorry, you have no logic here to support anything you're saying. You just want to believe what a mass-murderer says and you spend your time making excuses and supporting that behavior.

The God of the Bible is a terrible entity, a monster who's evil acts would make Hitler and Stalin blush. And this is all based on his own words and from the Bible... which supposedly tells us the truth of what God did. There is no way you can spin any of that shit to not be total hypocrisy and total evil from God.

Luckily, back in the real world, anyone with half a brain knows all that stuff are just stories and not real.

It seems that you're incapable of wrapping your head around the idea that God is all knowing lol. So of course he already knew how the world was going to turn out.

One wouldnt even need to be all knowing to have been able to see that the world was going to shit during those times. It was just that obvious.

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#24588 Posted by Jexsu (1284 posts) - - Show Bio

@j-man717: One point of debating is to nitpick so you can gather the entire picture's detail; it's a good way to flesh out thought-provoking questions and answers. Cancer is a big deal, and my mother is a breast cancer survivor, so I take cancer seriously. Your God's forcing people to suffer, which makes him evil; there is no balance between those suffering and those not.

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#24589 Posted by J-man717 (119 posts) - - Show Bio

@jexsu said:

@j-man717: One point of debating is to nitpick so you can gather the entire picture's detail; it's a good way to flesh out thought-provoking questions and answers. Cancer is a big deal, and my mother is a breast cancer survivor, so I take cancer seriously. Your God's forcing people to suffer, which makes him evil; there is no balance between those suffering and those not.

There is a balance between those suffering and those not. I was born with a severe fast metbolism and no way to cure it, and yet I am extremely lucky and have been born into a loving family and have met all the right people at all the right times.

Many people are not born with a fast metabolism and those that arent still have plenty of struggled of there own to deal with. So how is that not a balance?

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#24590 Posted by willpayton (22083 posts) - - Show Bio

@j-man717 said:

It seems that you're incapable of wrapping your head around the idea that God is all knowing lol. So of course he already knew how the world was going to turn out.

In that case God was responsible for all the evil and suffering in the world.

He punished people for breaking arbitrary rules that he created just to pad his ego and in many cases these people didnt even know about the rules, nor did they have any real chance of not breaking those rules since the outcomes were already predetermined and set up by God when he created the universe. Even if the people knew the rules, God said they all had free will, but then he punished them if they exercised that free will and made a decision that he didnt like. He just sounds like a bully and an asshole.

...

God: "Thou shall kiss me ass"

Man: "No"

God: "Then burn in Hell forever!"

Man: "WTF?"

...

No matter how you slice it, the God of the Bible is evil. The rest are just excuses and justifications for that evil.

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#24591 Posted by Jexsu (1284 posts) - - Show Bio
@j-man717 said:
@jexsu said:

@j-man717: One point of debating is to nitpick so you can gather the entire picture's detail; it's a good way to flesh out thought-provoking questions and answers. Cancer is a big deal, and my mother is a breast cancer survivor, so I take cancer seriously. Your God's forcing people to suffer, which makes him evil; there is no balance between those suffering and those not.

There is a balance between those suffering and those not. I was born with a severe fast metbolism and no way to cure it, and yet I am extremely lucky and have been born into a loving family and have met all the right people at all the right times.

Many people are not born with a fast metabolism and those that arent still have plenty of struggled of there own to deal with. So how is that not a balance?

There is no balance; there is no relation between you suffering and someone else not. Unless you're referring to a metaphorical connection, and even then, it's impossible to see. Yes, you are lucky to have been born in a family that loves you, but that means absolutely nothing to people who suffer and have no family that loves them. It's not balance because it's not realistic.

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#24592 Posted by J-man717 (119 posts) - - Show Bio

@j-man717 said:

It seems that you're incapable of wrapping your head around the idea that God is all knowing lol. So of course he already knew how the world was going to turn out.

In that case God was responsible for all the evil and suffering in the world.

He punished people for breaking arbitrary rules that he created just to pad his ego and in many cases these people didnt even know about the rules, nor did they have any real chance of not breaking those rules since the outcomes were already predetermined and set up by God when he created the universe. Even if the people knew the rules, God said they all had free will, but then he punished them if they exercised that free will and made a decision that he didnt like. He just sounds like a bully and an asshole.

...

God: "Thou shall kiss me ass"

Man: "No"

God: "Then burn in Hell forever!"

Man: "WTF?"

...

No matter how you slice it, the God of the Bible is evil. The rest are just excuses and justifications for that evil.

Again, God never killed anyone unless they were beyond saving. You see, God had to follow his own rules and guidelines for saving his creations and getting them on the right path. He couldnt force anyone to do anything, he could only influence.

Meaning everything he did was through influence, and he would only punish people if they had the chance to do something that they should have, but chose not to.

Even when punishing them, he would only punish them in ways that would be to there own benefit (higher the chances to bring them closer to God).

God has never caused an innocent life to be taken (unless were talking babies) but babies never experienced anything or had anything in the first place, so it makes sense. But anyone who wasnt a baby had no excuse.

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#24593 Edited by J-man717 (119 posts) - - Show Bio

@jexsu said:
@j-man717 said:
@jexsu said:

@j-man717: One point of debating is to nitpick so you can gather the entire picture's detail; it's a good way to flesh out thought-provoking questions and answers. Cancer is a big deal, and my mother is a breast cancer survivor, so I take cancer seriously. Your God's forcing people to suffer, which makes him evil; there is no balance between those suffering and those not.

There is a balance between those suffering and those not. I was born with a severe fast metbolism and no way to cure it, and yet I am extremely lucky and have been born into a loving family and have met all the right people at all the right times.

Many people are not born with a fast metabolism and those that arent still have plenty of struggled of there own to deal with. So how is that not a balance?

There is no balance; there is no relation between you suffering and someone else not. Unless you're referring to a metaphorical connection, and even then, it's impossible to see. Yes, you are lucky to have been born in a family that loves you, but that means absolutely nothing to people who suffer and have no family that loves them. It's not balance because it's not realistic.

Stop. Youre nitpicking again, as well as now even ignoring the obvious points I made to make it seem like Im saying something that im not.

My point is that I have my own problems and so does everyone else, no one is born perfect and everyone is born with advantages and disadvantages. Not all peoples problems are going to last forever, some will.

But regardless of that, a balance is still maintained. Because everyone has advantages over someone else and eveyone has things that other dont. This will carry over into the chain of events of life.

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#24594 Posted by willpayton (22083 posts) - - Show Bio

@j-man717 said:

Again, God never killed anyone unless they were beyond saving. You see, God had to follow his own rules and guidelines for saving his creations and getting them on the right path. He couldnt force anyone to do anything, he could only influence.

So it wasnt God's fault he had to murder millions of people. It was OUR fault. We made him do it.

LOL...

Meaning everything he did was through influence, and he would only punish people if they had the chance to do something that they should have, but chose not to.

Who says what people "should have" to do? God?

How did he murder millions of people in a flood only "through influence"? What are you even talking about?

Even when punishing them, he would only punish them in ways that would be to there own benefit (higher the chances to bring them closer to God).

Yes, for their own benefit, like burning in Hell for eternity.

God has never caused an innocent life to be taken (unless were talking babies)

LOL...

Yeah, except those babies. And all those people on the planet that never did anything worth being murdered for. And all the people in those cities that also did nothing wrong.

I mean, except for all those people, God is totally justified. Am I right?

but babies never experienced anything or had anything in the first place, so it makes sense.

This is the dumbest excuse I've ever heard to justify murder and genocide.

But anyone who wasnt a baby had no excuse.

Bullshit. God's laws were arbitrary in the first place. And then you have all the people who never even heard of those laws. Why should they be punished for not following laws they never even knew existed? Or the people who knew the laws and didnt do anything wrong? Or, right, you're claiming they were going to break the laws anyway. What a great excuse.

Your god is terrible, and the more you try to defend all these evil acts the worst it makes you look. Next up you will be justifying why the Jews needed to die during the Holocaust because they had it coming. Right?

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#24595 Posted by J-man717 (119 posts) - - Show Bio

@j-man717 said:

Again, God never killed anyone unless they were beyond saving. You see, God had to follow his own rules and guidelines for saving his creations and getting them on the right path. He couldnt force anyone to do anything, he could only influence.

So it wasnt God's fault he had to murder millions of people. It was OUR fault. We made him do it.

LOL...

Meaning everything he did was through influence, and he would only punish people if they had the chance to do something that they should have, but chose not to.

Who says what people "should have" to do? God?

How did he murder millions of people in a flood only "through influence"? What are you even talking about?

Even when punishing them, he would only punish them in ways that would be to there own benefit (higher the chances to bring them closer to God).

Yes, for their own benefit, like burning in Hell for eternity.

God has never caused an innocent life to be taken (unless were talking babies)

LOL...

Yeah, except those babies. And all those people on the planet that never did anything worth being murdered for. And all the people in those cities that also did nothing wrong.

I mean, except for all those people, God is totally justified. Am I right?

but babies never experienced anything or had anything in the first place, so it makes sense.

This is the dumbest excuse I've ever heard to justify murder and genocide.

But anyone who wasnt a baby had no excuse.

Bullshit. God's laws were arbitrary in the first place. And then you have all the people who never even heard of those laws. Why should they be punished for not following laws they never even knew existed? Or the people who knew the laws and didnt do anything wrong? Or, right, you're claiming they were going to break the laws anyway. What a great excuse.

Your god is terrible, and the more you try to defend all these evil acts the worst it makes you look. Next up you will be justifying why the Jews needed to die during the Holocaust because they had it coming. Right?

-he influenced where he could, to ensure everyone had a fair shot at salvation. He never murdered anyone, only the wicked who were evil. And the babies being murdered didnt matter as they never had anything to begin with and had he let them live and grow up in a wicked world they likely would have been killed as babies by the wicked people or killed at some point in childhood, and if not those then theyd regardless grow to be wicked as a result of the world.

-Where in the bible does it say that God punished anyone by throwing them in hell?

-A lot of stuff can be faked lol, for all we know the text books are full of lies. They teach evolution, which is a lie. So the jews being murdered could be a lie/cover up.

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#24596 Posted by Jexsu (1284 posts) - - Show Bio
@j-man717 said:
@jexsu said:
@j-man717 said:
@jexsu said:

@j-man717: One point of debating is to nitpick so you can gather the entire picture's detail; it's a good way to flesh out thought-provoking questions and answers. Cancer is a big deal, and my mother is a breast cancer survivor, so I take cancer seriously. Your God's forcing people to suffer, which makes him evil; there is no balance between those suffering and those not.

There is a balance between those suffering and those not. I was born with a severe fast metbolism and no way to cure it, and yet I am extremely lucky and have been born into a loving family and have met all the right people at all the right times.

Many people are not born with a fast metabolism and those that arent still have plenty of struggled of there own to deal with. So how is that not a balance?

There is no balance; there is no relation between you suffering and someone else not. Unless you're referring to a metaphorical connection, and even then, it's impossible to see. Yes, you are lucky to have been born in a family that loves you, but that means absolutely nothing to people who suffer and have no family that loves them. It's not balance because it's not realistic.

Stop. Youre nitpicking again, as well as now even ignoring the obvious points I made to make it seem like Im saying something that im not.

My point is that I have my own problems and so does everyone else, no one is born perfect and everyone is born with advantages and disadvantages. Not all peoples problems are going to last forever, some will.

But regardless of that, a balance is still maintained. Because everyone has advantages over someone else and eveyone has things that other dont. This will carry over into the chain of events of life.

No. "One point of debating is to nitpick so you can gather the entire picture's detail; it's a good way to flesh out thought-provoking questions and answers."

I have not ignored one thing you've typed. You're spouting common sense information that doesn't need a rebuttal. The only problem is, there is no proof that this balance is real.

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#24597 Posted by J-man717 (119 posts) - - Show Bio

@jexsu said:
@j-man717 said:
@jexsu said:
@j-man717 said:
@jexsu said:

@j-man717: One point of debating is to nitpick so you can gather the entire picture's detail; it's a good way to flesh out thought-provoking questions and answers. Cancer is a big deal, and my mother is a breast cancer survivor, so I take cancer seriously. Your God's forcing people to suffer, which makes him evil; there is no balance between those suffering and those not.

There is a balance between those suffering and those not. I was born with a severe fast metbolism and no way to cure it, and yet I am extremely lucky and have been born into a loving family and have met all the right people at all the right times.

Many people are not born with a fast metabolism and those that arent still have plenty of struggled of there own to deal with. So how is that not a balance?

There is no balance; there is no relation between you suffering and someone else not. Unless you're referring to a metaphorical connection, and even then, it's impossible to see. Yes, you are lucky to have been born in a family that loves you, but that means absolutely nothing to people who suffer and have no family that loves them. It's not balance because it's not realistic.

Stop. Youre nitpicking again, as well as now even ignoring the obvious points I made to make it seem like Im saying something that im not.

My point is that I have my own problems and so does everyone else, no one is born perfect and everyone is born with advantages and disadvantages. Not all peoples problems are going to last forever, some will.

But regardless of that, a balance is still maintained. Because everyone has advantages over someone else and eveyone has things that other dont. This will carry over into the chain of events of life.

No. "One point of debating is to nitpick so you can gather the entire picture's detail; it's a good way to flesh out thought-provoking questions and answers."

I have not ignored one thing you've typed. You're spouting common sense information that doesn't need a rebuttal. The only problem is, there is no proof that this balance is real.

Its a chain of events thing dude. If what i said didnt make sense to you then its gonna take hours for me to explain it in a way that you can understand.

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#24598 Posted by willpayton (22083 posts) - - Show Bio

@j-man717 said:

-A lot of stuff can be faked lol, for all we know the text books are full of lies. They teach evolution, which is a lie. So the jews being murdered could be a lie/cover up.

Image result for animated gif here we go

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#24599 Posted by J-man717 (119 posts) - - Show Bio

@j-man717 said:

-A lot of stuff can be faked lol, for all we know the text books are full of lies. They teach evolution, which is a lie. So the jews being murdered could be a lie/cover up.

The idea of the big bang makes less sense than there being a creator.

The jews being murdered could be a cover up. You just wont admit it because it proves im right.

I bet if i had mentioned how 9-11 was a confirmed cover up for proof instead, you would have agreed. Youre a sheep whose been hypnotized into defending the textbooks no matter what. Sad.

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#24600 Posted by Jexsu (1284 posts) - - Show Bio

@j-man717 said:
@willpayton said:
@j-man717 said:

It seems that you're incapable of wrapping your head around the idea that God is all knowing lol. So of course he already knew how the world was going to turn out.

In that case God was responsible for all the evil and suffering in the world.

He punished people for breaking arbitrary rules that he created just to pad his ego and in many cases these people didnt even know about the rules, nor did they have any real chance of not breaking those rules since the outcomes were already predetermined and set up by God when he created the universe. Even if the people knew the rules, God said they all had free will, but then he punished them if they exercised that free will and made a decision that he didnt like. He just sounds like a bully and an asshole.

...

God: "Thou shall kiss me ass"

Man: "No"

God: "Then burn in Hell forever!"

Man: "WTF?"

...

No matter how you slice it, the God of the Bible is evil. The rest are just excuses and justifications for that evil.

Again, God never killed anyone unless they were beyond saving.

False. He killed Lot's Wife for looking back at the burning city of Sodom. "She disobeyed him," is not a reasonable defense, either. She and her family were far away and safe from harm. There was no need to kill her as she was merely curious as to what form of destruction Sodom underwent. The description of that event is stated to be, in one form, an earthquake, and another form, "completely consumed by fire and brimstone."