Ok so I know I'm ussually the one to joke around and say dirty jokes but after watching a YouTube vid about Trayvon Martian and reading the comments I almost cried. So here is the thing that every race has its bad eggs. Does no one remember when some white's long ago enslaved blacks, or when Mexicans started a gang war. Also, I'm not just saying that us blacks get racist comments because living in Cali which is a very diverse place see a lot of mexicans that go to private stuck up schools get called Border Bandits, I see whites in black schools get called crackers. To get to my point why can't we all just stand toghether as one and leave this rasist bs aside.
Rasicm
Mexicans ... Gangwars... Whites.... Slavery...
The first half of your OP is you guilt tripping whites and browns which is kind of the opposite of what you're trying to get across. It's kind of racist actually...
We made societies, and societies invented racism, it's all a learned behavior, and a vicious cycle. If every child was exposed to different cultures at a young age, and taught to respect it instead of every group living in their own tiny pathetic bubble in which every kid is being taught that they're special and different from all other kids in the world, then the world would have been a LITTLE better. We're all humans, you would think we're all the same, but the truth is most people actually believe that everyone is different, and as long as there is difference, there will be racism. Oh f*ck it, why do I care, I already lost hope in humanity anyways.
Racism is something that has been going on for hundreds upon hundreds of years.... It will always exist...We will always have people who will hate others over their skin color, culture, religion and or country they're from.
@menaceforever said:
Ok so I know I'm ussually the one to joke around and say dirty jokes but after watching a YouTube vid about Trayvon Martian and reading the comments I almost cried. So here is the thing that every race has its bad eggs. Does no one remember when White's enslaved people, or when Mexicans started a gang war. Also, I'm not just saying that us blacks get racist comments because living in Cali which is a very diverse place see a lot of mexicans that go to private stuck up schools get called Border Bandits, I see whites in black schools get called crackers. To get to my point why can't we all just stand toghether as one and leave this rasist bs aside.
Because racism Is still alive and prevalent In almost every society.
@menaceforever said:
To get to my point why can't we all just stand toghether as one and leave this rasist bs aside.
You're the first one to suggest that. Great job man!
Yeah, racism is stupid, but I think Freeman is right. The more you talk about it, the more you empower it. It even annoyed me that the media kept going on and on about Obama being the first black President. Sure, it is a nice marker for all far we have come, but...isn't the dream that we are not supposed to care. I can see a news story or two on it, but it seemed like a three month celebration between his election and inauguration.
I know....its kind of a vague jab...I suppose when he says "us whites" I am included, which is odd being I never enslaved anyone and all my ancestors are of Irish descent, and as far as I recall....they were enslaved by British oppressors....what a mindf*ckWho did us white people enslave?
Racism is a topic like religion or politics, you can argue it forever and no one is ever truly right or wrong...
@cattlebattle said:
@AweSam said:I know....its kind of a vague jab...I suppose when he says "us whites" I am included, which is odd being I never enslaved anyone and all my ancestors are of Irish descent, and as far as I recall....they were enslaved by British oppressors....what a mindf*ck Racism is a topic like religion or politics, you can argue it forever and no one is ever truly right or wrong...Who did us white people enslave?
But we're white, we "enslave people". Is there a "How to be White" guidebook that mentions we have to enslave people or something? I don't recall enslaving people.
@AweSam said:
@cattlebattle said:
@AweSam said:I know....its kind of a vague jab...I suppose when he says "us whites" I am included, which is odd being I never enslaved anyone and all my ancestors are of Irish descent, and as far as I recall....they were enslaved by British oppressors....what a mindf*ck Racism is a topic like religion or politics, you can argue it forever and no one is ever truly right or wrong...Who did us white people enslave?
But we're white, we "enslave people". Is there a "How to be White" guidebook that mentions we have to enslave people or something? I don't recall enslaving people.
It's really an oversight in the education system. I'm worried that future generations of Caucasians will not be sure how to oppress minorities. Sad times...
Nope....its supposed to be hardwired....hell, I enslaved like 5 people from India on my way to the grocery store this morning :)@cattlebattle said:
But we're white, we "enslave people". Is there a "How to be White" guidebook that mentions we have to enslave people or something? I don't recall enslaving people.
The issue of racism is something that I'm forced to see everyday I go to college. I'm Italian, my direct descendants for the most part where farmers in Sicily trying to make a living by enslaving mules not people. I'm stuck, however, having to hear the same 2-3 groups of people preach about how the "white" man is the evil one, how our society is tarnished by the ills that the "white" man has done to everyone.
Um, I'm first generation Sicilian. Sicilians and other south Italians where horrendously discriminated against when they first started immigrating on mass to the states, sometimes worse that the treatment African Americans endured. Plus there's bigotry between the Northern Italians against the Southerns, mainly because the south are viewed to be dirty, stinky and lazy bums, while the Northerners are like New Englanders; snappy dressed, living in big ass cities etc.
Plus the mob has really taken the name of Sicilians and made it into a bad thing.
So with all this, how have me and my family played the part of the evil white people? Heck, I don't even know if I should be labeled an evil "white" person because my skin is naturally dark in pigment.
@cattlebattle said:
@AweSam said:Nope....its supposed to be hardwired....hell, I enslaved like 5 people from India on my way to the grocery store this morning :)@cattlebattle said:
But we're white, we "enslave people". Is there a "How to be White" guidebook that mentions we have to enslave people or something? I don't recall enslaving people.
Keep up the good work
I wasn't saying that just some white people are racist because I know a lot of racist people of other races. I've seen Mexicans get singled out just because there Mexican and I've saw Caucasions get treated wrongly because they aren't black. Racism is something that happens everywhere. We all probraly have made a few racial slurs but where real racism exist is in hatred.
@menaceforever said:
Wasn't intentional at all. Not trying to be racist but these things need to be said.
That's something a racist would say......
We made societies, and societies invented racism, it's all a learned behavior, and a vicious cycle. If every child was exposed to different cultures at a young age, and taught to respect it instead of every group living in their own tiny pathetic bubble in which every kid is being taught that they're special and different from all other kids in the world, then the world would have been a LITTLE better. We're all humans, you would think we're all the same, but the truth is most people actually believe that everyone is different, and as long as there is difference, there will be racism. Oh f*ck it, why do I care, I already lost hope in humanity anyways.
Nicely said.
Anyways, racism(when it's based on experience at least) originates from the Amygdala, which creates an emotional association with that memory and things related to it. So, it's not as simple as changing society as it originates in our brain and tries to help us survive. I mean, sure it might eliminate racism specifically. But another "ism" like hairism would come up in its place. You're gonna look at a specific characteristic associated with the person associated in that memory and have a fear association based on it. Because being able to look at a charging Tiger and indiscriminately judge that it might hurt you, on an emotional level without you having to think, helps you survive. That's the basis of racism, in some cases. Furthermore, it bypasses cognitive brain processes(when its based on experience), so it's not something you can control too well. Unless you maybe realize what's happening.
Moving on, there was a heated debate about Racism last semester in my Philosophy of Law Class. The main sides were(And I'm gonna describe them with their race):
1. A white guy arguing that affirmative action and such enforces that people are different, that races exist, and thus it is racist and creates feelings of racism. He believed that races are socially constructed, in a way, and therefore we should be simply ignoring race in order to solve the problem of racism.
2. A hispanic girl arguing that pretending racial differences don't exist ignores the history and success of fighting for racial equality. And what if us minorities want the advantage?
These seem to be the main sides on the issue of race and racism. Ignoring race, and thus racial history vs. Acknowledging racial history and racial differences.
And then, a third party entered the debate - he was the guy that answered the most questions in class and all that jazz. Pretty intelligent. A white guy who said:
3. I agree with both sides. Acknowledging racial differences enforces racism and racial differences. However, because of the history of things such as slavery, races are a social reality that we can't ignore. In an ideal world, we would be able to say that races don't exist and we are all human and we can't say that there are "racial needs" like Affirmative Action. But, our world is far from ideal - we can't ignore the impact that past differences on the basis of race has done to society. We can't, for example, ignore that Slavery stunted blacks economic growth and put them back a century or so economically, leading into Segregation which did the same thing. We can't ignore that Racial Segregation led to the high percentage of blacks in impoverished areas, ghettos, and that Racial Segregation has been basically been justified as Economic Segregation, as a large percentage of poor areas are made up of minorities.
On which side do I fall on the issue?
Oh, and OP, racism* is how its spelled. ('-' )
@PsychoKnights said:
Yeah, racism is stupid, but I think Freeman is right. The more you talk about it, the more you empower it. It even annoyed me that the media kept going on and on about Obama being the first black President. Sure, it is a nice marker for all far we have come, but...isn't the dream that we are not supposed to care. I can see a news story or two on it, but it seemed like a three month celebration between his election and inauguration.
I think Ignoring the fact that Its still here Is even worse.
@utotheg38 said:
@PsychoKnights said:
Yeah, racism is stupid, but I think Freeman is right. The more you talk about it, the more you empower it. It even annoyed me that the media kept going on and on about Obama being the first black President. Sure, it is a nice marker for all far we have come, but...isn't the dream that we are not supposed to care. I can see a news story or two on it, but it seemed like a three month celebration between his election and inauguration.
I think Ignoring the fact that Its still here Is even worse.
I'm never for ignoring truth, or refusing to discuss something, but I just don't see how it helps to bring it up.
If I woke up every morning and spent significant time thinking about everybody who dislikes or hates me, I would either feel very bad about myself and defeated, or I would be angry and ready for a fight, and I don't think either one of those attitudes would be a particularly helpful attitude to have all the time. Now, if I encountered somebody who voiced their hatred of me, I might deal with it by confronting them, or complain to a friend about it, but I wouldn't try to think about it everyday or seek out signs of hatred in those around me.
I suppose what I am saying is that if someone is racist, then of course it is legitimate topic for discussion, but at the same time, their are idiots everywhere, and if it isn't directly bothering you, why not just say, "What an idiot," and get on with your life?" Of course, this is coming from a very white, white guy, and I fully admit that I understand nothing about what it means to be black.
@TERMINATORXX said:
Racism is something that has been going on for hundreds upon hundreds of years.... It will always exist...We will always have people who will hate others over their skin color, culture, religion and or country they're from.
quoted for truth.
@Jezer said: Interesting post all around. Did your professor lean to one side because I find that professors usually have their own agenda and throw their own weight around quite a lot. It always annoys me.
Your idea about racism being related to the amygdala is especially interesting. I've never thought of racism as a defense mechanism, but it makes sense. Obviously, that is not a defense of racism.
My problem with the idea your presented as your view of race relations in the comic is that it views the entire race as one entity. If that were the case, it would make sense, but if you believe in personal responsibility instead of collective responsibility, then it is ridiculous to ask the descendants of one group to pay for the mistakes of their forefathers.
@utotheg38 said:
Fair enough, I respect your opinion.
Was that to me? I don't want to debate this. Again, I have no experience as a black man, so it is all speculation as to what would be best, but I am curious, how do you approach racism from an attitude perspective. Is it something you try to keep in mind, and if so, do you feel it helps you, and how does it help?
@PsychoKnights said:
@utotheg38 said:
Fair enough, I respect your opinion.
Was that to me? I don't want to debate this. Again, I have no experience as a black man, so it is all speculation as to what would be best, but I am curious, how do you approach racism from an attitude perspective. Is it something you try to keep in mind, and if so, do you feel it helps you, and how does it help?
Too lazy :D
I likely have more in common with a person who has a PhD in physics and has an interest in sports from the U.S., with black skin, than with some random Italian white guy living in Canada ; ).
@PsychoKnights said:
@Jezer said: Interesting post all around. Did your professor lean to one side because I find that professors usually have their own agenda and throw their own weight around quite a lot. It always annoys me.
Your idea about racism being related to the amygdala is especially interesting. I've never thought of racism as a defense mechanism, but it makes sense. Obviously, that is not a defense of racism.
My problem with the idea your presented as your view of race relations in the comic is that it views the entire race as one entity. If that were the case, it would make sense, but if you believe in personal responsibility instead of collective responsibility, then it is ridiculous to ask the descendants of one group to pay for the mistakes of their forefathers.
My professor didn't. She encouraged us to discuss and articulate our thoughts, but didn't really lean to any side or say anyone was right. She mostly just questioned us about things we said to try to point out any flaws and counter arguments, and taught the material. And then tried to get us to think about how particular philosophers would think about whatever issue. At my university, I haven't encountered any particular professor teaching their own agenda.
Thanks. As a Psych Major, I'd say it is a well known idea(or even fact) in the realm of Psychology.
True. But, I don't think it's personal responsibility versus collective responsibility. I believe you have both. I mean, while we are individuals, we're also different cultures. The American People are one entity under our country and our flag. We are all united as one entity under the category of American Society. We all have several different categories that we use to describe ourselves, as well as being individually different from others in that category. It's both, not one or the other.
So, a minority in an impoverished area is personally responsible to a degree to strive to get a good education. To try to do good in school and take advantage of opportunities. Now, I say to a degree because their parents encouragement, media influences, peer influences, and even certain actions that the mom does to the the person as an infant will influence how responsible they are for motivating themselves or not, to a degree(if you grow up indoctrinated that education accomplishes nothing, how can you be responsible for not seeking an education?).
At the same time, society is collectively responsible to allow those minorities those opportunities - a good education system in their neighborhood, access to it, financial aid and scholarships to attend universities, ect. It's societies responsibility to allow minorities the soil and nutrients, so that they can then choose to take advantage and grow towards a better future.(obligatory analogy)
The thing is - it's not asking the "descendants of one group to pay for the mistakes of their forefathers". That makes it sound like the comic shows him asking for reparations.
It's asking for society, the people in charge in various areas - alot of which happen to be white - to help us blacks to reach an equal level. It's asking not you specifically and all the white people, it's asking your collective race to help my collective race reach similar levels of employment, education, ect. If you view it as a punishment(negative), then that's taking the emphasis off what it's supposed to be doing(positive) - helping us. It's not even particularly asking your race/whites; it's asking people who can make changes in society(alot of which happen to be of your race).
People love to find reasons and excuses to hate one another, whether it be race, religion, gender or sexuality. I can guarantee you if we were all asexual, creatures of the exact same race, creed and religious beliefs, we'll still find SOMETHING to hate another for.
@The Stegman said:
People love to find reasons and excuses to hate one another, whether it be race, religion, gender or sexuality. I can guarantee you if we were all asexual, creatures of the exact same race, creed and religious beliefs, we'll still find SOMETHING to hate another for.
I disagree! And because of that! I hate you! Nyahahaha!
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