POLITICS THREAD

I fixed it for you.

You're going to hear a lot of talk about Trump being a felon or a criminal or whatever but that's to be expected when people are trying to bring him down.

Trump being "innocent" or "guilty" is silly, you just don't get it. the investigation is politically motivated Trump is trying to run the country. while the unaccountable Robert Mueller is running around trying to get any little thing on Trump. it's a joke.

And of course the special counsel's purpose is to gather "sufficient evidence" that would justify impeachment, this should be obvious. in fact I think it probably is obvious to everyone except you.

and what can I say, we can't all be as objective as you.

@dernman:

I don't know if I consider Breitbart mainstream, and I said Fox News are promoting a libertarian agenda. it's one, count it one news channel compare that to the lefts multiple networks, channels, newspapers, websites. and like I said truly right-wing views don't have a mainstream platform.

So how many criminal organizations does the President run now? I have lost track at this point

@decaf_wizard: Well, the corporations needed to be held responsible before they grew so big and far reaching they could cause economy wide damage.

But, since they didnt regulate them from the beginning I would be curious what you believe they should have done instead of a bailout. I genuinely want to know what alternatives could have been taken and how they would mitigate the economic damage failure would bring.

I'll get to this in the morning. Its late here. But the general agreement is that the Bush administration and Fed could have solved the issue before it happened because they knew it was incoming VIA warning signs. They just ignored it

@willpayton:

I recommend you take this into account

@oswaldcobblepot: Are you serious? No one could possibly take you seriously saying Fox News, Breitbart,The Blaze, Drudge Report, National Review, Daily Wire, The Weekly Standard, The Daily Caller, Info Wars, Newsmax, The Federalist, Redstate, NRA TV,and so on, aren't right wing, or don't espouse common right wing beliefs.

In the long run? Probably. Sometimes a good rinse is whats needed to get back to proper form.

Save that the risk could have been that all the jobs at GM could have been lost along with the company. And the problem there is that GM is an American institution so it's an important symbol to have around, and like both Obama and Trump have demonstrated, something you can use politically.
Regarding your balancing act... ehh, thats guesswork. If GM had vanished over night and ceased all production, there would be a shift over to other brands, those brands would then have to increase production. However, there is no guarantee most of those lost jobs would be recreated elsewhere in the US if the models that start selling are imports, and most likely wont be at factories conveniently near those GM plants that were closed.

well most of those are either not mainstream, or not well established. only Fox news and Drudge.

you'll notice when I listed leftist propaganda outlets, I didn't list the young turks or media matters or even Salon. I strictly listed well established or significantly popular mainstream outlets. point being that most people are not aware that the likes of NBC, ABC, CBS, big well established media companies are in large part driven by a leftist agenda.

National Review and The Weekly Standard are neocon/libertarian trash and are irrelevant.

I also don't view most of those as right-wing except for Infowars, and while Matt Drudge is more of a classical liberal populist not necessarily right-wing, Charles Hurt is probably right-wing but the Drudge Report is like an aggregator, it links to everything from AP to CNN to the New York Times. it can't be exclusively considered a right-wing website.

Im going to give you some Pinocchios on this one, buddy,

To compare the actual last year of a President to the 2nd year of an active President is either a fraudulent slip or a misdirection.I would have to look at data regarding the year break downs but just isolating the 2nd term where most Presidents are doing their agenda to the last year is just unfair and lacking context

What is the budget deficit in Obama's second year in both terms?

As much as you may not like defense spending, Trump's deficit had a lot to do with refortifying defense if one where to argue Obama was restructuring the economy

The last bill in which he had to sign for defense spending due to the defense sequester was largely a Democratic bill with all the other stuff that they wanted.

Tariffs arent actually effecting the stock market by trending data. China's announcement to start dropping their tariffs has actually caused a 400 plus dive both times. Our stock actually went up every time Trump has announced tariffs and implementation. Jerome Powell just stated again that he was going to hike up interest rates - which effects the stock more than Trump, though his twitter does effect it minimally. There is no correlation with massive flows of stock adjustments. And that is all it is, market adjustments.

The stock market went up every year due to 1) Obama had no interest rates 2) he was starting from zero. Slow economic progress skews the fact in the environment you are trying to portray under Obama economy

@willpayton:

Mueller was accountable to who? Sessions foolishly recused himself, and Rod Rosenstein was reportedly so anti-Trump that he wanted to invoke the 25th amendment to remove Trump from office. so no, Mueller was never accountable to anyone fair or objective. there was no genuine oversight, there never is with these types of investigations. hopefully things will be a lot different under Whitaker.

so actually you are the one who is ignorant, or you're just playing dumb. if that's the case then congrats on a very convincing performance.

me saying "this should be obvious" was not an argument. I'm not trying to convince you of anything, I don't care what leftists think or believe about anything. it was an observation, my assessment, my opinion. ironically that also should have been obvious.

"a traitor to the country."

so objective, you could probably get a job at CNN.

Why is Giuliani even on Trump legal staff? Why?

Jared Kushner's prison reform bill passed with bi-partisan support. No news on that. Of course the 45 haters will find something wrong with it like Don Lemon.

US pulls out of Syria - no news on that. Of course haters are going to find something wrong with it

Jonathan Pie is a treasure.

He is actually one of the few rational voices on the left these days. He was Anti-Trump, Anti-Le Pen, and Anti-Brexit yet he actually decides to be rational about it and not a gibbering idiot

@boschepg: The stick market is a reflection of the tarrifs and high deficit spending, it is exactly the same climate that caused the recession when you add into it deregulation

Thanks everyone for the warm welcome, I been so busy, and now I am buying a new house, I will respond to all the messages in time when I get to it

Even after his foundation agreed to shut down after a (and I'm quoting the NY AG here) "shocking pattern of illegality" was exposed, Trump is still trying to make it loo like he's the victim here. Saddest part is, some people (like @oswaldcobblepot) will probably believe him.

@mrmonster:

The President probably has been treated unfairly as usual.

and the unfriendly neighborhood Schneider-man is evil.

No it is not. I follow the thing cuz Im invested in it. It actually has been going the other way then expected with anything tariff related

I gotta say, this new bipartisan prison reform bill is sounding really great. I might do a DA on this later.

Looks like Trump's lawyer, Giuliani, has been caught lying about Trump's deal with the Russians. He earlier denied that Trump signed a letter of intent to proceed with the Moscow project in which Trump offered Putin a $50 Million penthouse. But after CNN obtained a copy of the letter, signed by Trump, now Giuliani is changing his tune.

And all the while Trump was telling the American public that he had no dealings with Russians or investments in Russia, he was in the middle of this deal and offering Putin a penthouse in the new building for his support. Anyone wonder why Putin was so keen to get Trump elected?

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-russia-trumptower/trump-signed-off-on-moscow-project-during-campaign-giuliani-idUSKCN1OI2A1

I didnt even see this before making my post above.

The real question is, why was Trump lying to the American people and telling us that he had no dealings with Russians, when all the time he and his family were heavily invested, were getting a lot of money from Russian backers, and was in the middle of this deal where he was offering Putin a $50 Million penthouse? To make things worse, this was also when the Russians and Putin in particular were being accused of interfering the election (which we learned for certain later they were) and Trump was publicly asking the Russians to hack into Hillary's emails to help him win.

@black3stpanth3r: @willpayton:

hypothetically, if Trump is impeached, does that stymie Democratic voter turnout?

it isn't great but its something. something is good

But to answer your implied question, Giuliani is there for the same reason that Trump has surrounded himself with criminals, the incompetent, those who were acting illegally as foreign agents like Manafort, and pretty much the most corrupt administration I've ever seen. The reasons are that 1) Trump himself is corrupt and a criminal, so those are the people that he knows and understands, and 2) he only wants ass-kissers around him who will pledge loyalty regardless of ability, morality, or integrity. That's why he fired Comey and kicked out Sessions. I mean, Trump literally said that if he'd known that Sessions was going to recuse himself, he would have never put him in his position. So basically Trump only wanted someone as Attorney General who was willing to be subservient and subvert our political system to favor Trump and help him obstruct justice.

Trump really doesnt care about the integrity of our nation, our political system, our legal system, or anything for that matter other than his own gain. This is why he keeps criticizing the Fed which is supposed to be an independent organization. Show me another President that has attacked the Fed and made their job as hard as Trump is doing? There's a reason why Presidents usually dont comment on the Fed's decisions. Not only that, but Trump keeps criticizing and interfering with the legal system, criticizing judges for decisions and even calling into question the integrity of our judiciary. And we all know about Trump's attack on journalists, and even his support for people who have actually murdered a journalist.

So, why does Trump hire criminals, the incompetent, and the corrupt? Simply... because those people reflect who he is and what he wants.

@decaf_wizard: but he is white, so Democratic voters wont watch it

Hmm... interesting question. I'm not sure it would. True, Trump would no longer be there, but the entire process has gone a long way towards energizing the Democratic base and even those in the middle who dislike the way the country is headed.

I'm low on free time to keep up with everything that's going on. Can someone give me a quick summary of what's being proposed?

On a side note, the one reform that I really would like to see, but I know will NEVER happen, is legalizing of drugs. We spend insane amounts of money, effort, and lives on the neverending "war on drugs" which only fills up the prisons with non-violent offenders and encourages drug cartels and makes people criminals. If we just make drugs legal, we can regulate them and save a lot of money, even if we take a fraction of what we spend now and send it on treatment and education. But... whatever, it's not going to happen.

@willpayton: timestamped for convenience.

@willpayton:

talking points:

• It places prisoners to facilities closer to their families
• lessen minimum mandatory sentences for non-violent drug offenses
• job training rehabilitation programs increase in Federal prisons
• closed the difference between powder cocaine and crack sentences (which directly effects the black community is large portions)
• increase more factors to earn good behavior release
• no solitary confinement for juveniles
• no shackles of female prisoners
• reduce the three strike penalty of life to 25 years and thus commuting sentences that are over the new 25 years policy

this are for Federal prisons. Got 87 Senate votes

What a douche.

@boschepg: I don’t know about the turnout, but more people vote for dems in the general election on average in recent memory

@boschepg: I follow the stock market too, tell me what is different now from the climate that caused the recession, deregulation, high deficit spending, they even want to kill Obamacare, Obamacare was a big part of getting out of the recession, many people don’t realize, oh yeah irresponsible tax cuts, the same climate as before

yeah but the tax cuts also went to the people that created the jobs this time around. I've said it many times, I think GW Bush was one of the worst policy Presidents that I can think of. Every agenda I can think of retrospectively has been horrendous.

@boschepg: how is he different from Trump?

@boschepg: Better yet how is he different from Putin? Now he is withdrawing troops from Syria, no doubt that’s what Putin wants, he has been lock step with Putin on every policy at the expense Ethel American people

He doesn't assassinate political rivals.

If you want to bring up Syria then let me respond and drop some knowledge

I have to ask you this. What was your stance on American military presence? Cuz we weren't even really in Syria with military action during the last 8 years outside of training. Remember the red line? So now military presence in Syria is a must to you? What strategical advantage does our troops in Syria have compared to our troops that were withdrawn in Afghanistan? These are serious questions to you

Did you know the President can only really authorize military action up to 90 days before Congress has to pass legislation - of course they tend to abdicate such action. Did you know in a CNN survey in 2013 that 59% said there should be no military action in Syria - cuz there wasn't no military action even after Assad drop chemicals on his own people. 48% didn't even want airstrikes going into Syria.

So let me ask you since your brought up foreign policy, where did you stand with Obama in the Middle East? Cuz this is where Trump stood, Assad used chemical weapons again, he launched missiles and sent some troops in. We and the UN cant go into half of Syria cuz Assad-Putin zones. You know the UN which we pay a large chunk of money due to our military might but don't want to step on any toes thus UN just complains. So you want us backing the Kurds? That's fine. They are the people trying to overthrow Assad, but of course now you have to fight both ISIS, Assad, and Putin. What is your stance on foreign policy? Cuz without clarification, it sounds as if you want us to stay in Syria with no clear reason but to just stay there and fight a battle where we are outnumbered and inflate the debt more. Cuz as I understood it, we were there to fight ISIS who was also fighting Assad. If ISIS and Assad want to duke it out, why put our troops in the way. We might as well send troops back into Afghanistan full bore. The simple fact is the a majority of Americans don't like sending American soldiers into places that there is no logical reason but all of a sudden Trump wants to pull out and now that's a problem. When Obama wanted to pull out of the MIddle East it was so great. To CNN it was a problem when Trump launched his missiles into Syria. What would it take to make his haters stop complaining regarding Syria - cuz it sounds just like complaining no matter what

https://dailycaller.com/2018/12/18/antifa-leader-violent-communist/

• The Daily Caller News Foundation has determined that an influential Antifa leader uses aliases to spread radical and often violent rhetoric while concealing his actual identity.
• Joseph “Jose” Alcoff works with congressional Democrats as part of his day job as a manager with a DC-based advocacy group. But he spreads socialist and communist propaganda when going by the name “Jose Martin.”
• Identifying as “Chepe,” Alcoff advocates for the violent overthrow of the government and for the murder of the rich. He has relished the mainstreaming of Antifa’s militant tactics in the Trump era.
• A 2017 book identified Chepe as an organizer behind Smash Racism DC, the Antifa group that mobbed Fox News host Tucker Carlson’s home in November and ran Ted Cruz out of a restaurant in September.
  

...

“You have to expose them and you have to expose where they live, their names, what they do for a living,” he added. “Never let them be anonymous, and never just push their rhetoric without directly countering it.”

https://dailycaller.com/2018/12/19/antifa-lady-court-wont-dismiss-wwii-hero/

Antifa activist Yvette Felarca has gone from violently roughing people up on the streets — and getting caught on video while doing so — to getting figuratively roughed up in the courtroom.

Now, according to attorneys, it’s concerning that her fight against fascism isn’t getting the same recognition as the heroes who fought Nazis during World War II.

...

Judge Michael Savage, who refused to dismiss the felony case against Felarca in May, explained, “Simply nothing in these exhibits supports the defendants’ claims … that they were unjustly or unfairly culled out.”

Sacramento County deputy district attorney Paris Coleman also spoke to claims that the prosecution was racially or politically motivated, saying, “No one from my office really cares [about the race of the defendants]. That’s not why they were charged. They are captured on video committing crimes, unfortunately for them.”

Lol

Interesting article from Channel 4 EU vs Fake News: The truth about Brussels’ fight against disinformation

For me this backs up my thoughts about Article 11 & 13 and how they were likely crafted to control access to information.

Anti-Trump Organization, CNN's reporter of the year - now admits many articles were "fake news":

https://www.foxnews.com/world/german-star-reporter-forced-to-resign-after-admitting-to-have-fabricated-multiple-stories

http://www.spiegel.de/international/the-relotius-case-answers-to-the-most-important-questions-a-1244653.html

So, CNN's reporter of the year faked about 25% of the articles he wrote for his company, Der Spiegel. I got to say I am completely shocked and flabbergasted. I'd have figured you had to have a percentage of fake news closer to 100% to be CNN's reporter of the year.

Well I mean a lot of establishment dems barely have a platform anymore beyond "OBSTRUCT REPUBLICANS" even when they are doing good stuff like pulling out of Syria or reforming the Prison System. I guarantee whoever runs against Trump will have "Im not Trump" at the centre of their campaign unless Joe gets on the ballot

@black3stpanth3r: I wanted to apologize if my last reply came off somewhat brash. Im tired cuz of work with an altered schedule and I just replaced a new roof and my hot water heater just busted this week too. Im bleeding money right now

DOW dropped...cuz Jerome Powell keeps jacking up interest rates again.

Just so you all know, the daily agreement will be coming back, I’ve simply been taking a break from politics

X

Damn, I pity those liberals.

@willpayton: @black3stpanth3r: @just_sayin: @decaf_wizard:

So...Jim Mattis is retiring

And also we are possibly pulling out of Afghanistan. Remember we sent 15,000 troops in 2017. Though surprising, this tactic doesn't fit his NSA Bolton at all - which was rumored Mattis and Bolden were beefing

WTF is happening. Though I like Mulvaney as temporary Chief of Staff with no Kelly, Mattis, and Haley, Im kind of lost right now