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dernman

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@dernman:

At a time of you posting this show me any stance I took other than Saudis have been a problem for longer than Trump. Where are you coming up with this shit? Fracks sake man. Get your head together.

^So this is the one problem where there is no solution is what you are saying?

What the killing at the embassy or the Saudi's as a whole?

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BLACK3STPANTH3R

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@just_sayin: He supported Brown V the Board of education.

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BLACK3STPANTH3R

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@dernman:

@dernman said:
@black3stpanth3r said:

@dernman:

At a time of you posting this show me any stance I took other than Saudis have been a problem for longer than Trump. Where are you coming up with this shit? Fracks sake man. Get your head together.

^So this is the one problem where there is no solution is what you are saying?

What the killing at the embassy or the Saudi's as a whole?

I'm just referring to the killing at the embassy, the Saudi's as a whole is an entirely different issue, we need to invest in other forms of energy anyway, I've already stated that earlier, we should not have to rely on oil for our energy needs, and that would help to alleviate any dependency on it.

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destinyman75

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@black3stpanth3r: Yeah we really do need to start investing in other forms of energy it's obvious we need to. With trump though we not only do so but we go backwards ever further...

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BLACK3STPANTH3R

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@dernman: With all due respect, I think you are missing the point, the point is that he is trying to cover up for them, I think this is a great departure from past Presidents

In 2015 at a rally in AL, Trump said,

"I get along great with all of [the Saudis] ...They buy apartments from me. They spend $40 million, $50 million. Am I supposed to dislike them? I like them very much!"

Trump has reason to cover this up. Just like he had reason to cover for Putin: his personal interests were at stake.

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BLACK3STPANTH3R

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@destinyman75:

@black3stpanth3r: Yeah we really do need to start investing in other forms of energy it's obvious we need to. With trump though we not only do so but we go backwards ever further...

With all the hot air coming from the gas bag in the white house, we could survive off of natural gas for an eon...lol

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BLACK3STPANTH3R

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Why is it that Republicans let them get away with everything? G.W. Bush had dinner with the Ben Ladens before 9/11, and most of the hijackers in 9/11 were from where again?

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BLACK3STPANTH3R

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We're an oil exporter now. Demand will fall once Republicans lose their ability to deny the science of climate change.

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BLACK3STPANTH3R

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"The Trump administration and the Saudi royal family are searching for a mutually agreeable explanation for the death of journalist Jamal Khashoggi — one that will avoid implicating Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, who is among the president’s closest foreign allies, according to analysts and officials in multiple countries."

IOW: "How can we help you cover up this murder?"

More winning from Our Fearless Leader.

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destinyman75

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@black3stpanth3r: yeah when we are gagging for breath and turned purple nor orange

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destinyman75

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@black3stpanth3r: yeah knowing our luck with trump though we'd all probably die of laughter

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dernman

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@dernman:

@dernman said:
@black3stpanth3r said:

@dernman:

At a time of you posting this show me any stance I took other than Saudis have been a problem for longer than Trump. Where are you coming up with this shit? Fracks sake man. Get your head together.

^So this is the one problem where there is no solution is what you are saying?

What the killing at the embassy or the Saudi's as a whole?

I'm just referring to the killing at the embassy, the Saudi's as a whole is an entirely different issue, we need to invest in other forms of energy anyway, I've already stated that earlier, we should not have to rely on oil for our energy needs, and that would help to alleviate any dependency on it.

Even though my post, the one you asked the question to didn't suggest anything either way I'll answer.

Off the top of my head, other than speaking out against it? I don't see a good one that matters and doesn't come without fallout.

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dernman

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@dernman: With all due respect, I think you are missing the point, the point is that he is trying to cover up for them, I think this is a great departure from past Presidents

In 2015 at a rally in AL, Trump said,

"I get along great with all of [the Saudis] ...They buy apartments from me. They spend $40 million, $50 million. Am I supposed to dislike them? I like them very much!"

Trump has reason to cover this up. Just like he had reason to cover for Putin: his personal interests were at stake.

No I get what you're saying. You're not getting what I'm saying.

The reason Trump is the one where you see the fracking coming is because he's so bad at it and people already distrust him while a real politician who's part of the machine would have a done a better job with the smoke and mirrors.

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BLACK3STPANTH3R

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@dernman: See that's where I beg to differ, I don't think we need them as much as you think or they think.

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AbstractRaze

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#2465  Edited By AbstractRaze

@black3stpanth3r said:

@abstractraze: Saudi Arabia is becoming irrelevant, petroleum/crude oil is becoming irrelevant from the very day we Germans, have been working on electro vehicles and hydrogen vehicles.

You see, I actually agree with this some of this, we must focus on other forms of energy as a planet, crude oil is literally going the way of the fossil, and it is finite, we need other forms of energy to power our communities. They need us more than we need them, if we all decided to focus on alternative forms of energy, they would have no one else to sell their oil too, and they would come back to us begging.

That's not so simple as you think, to update an entire industry in a single blow, damages the economy, it requires a huge amount of investment and time, such a thing would freeze the production as well, as mentioned before, it's currently better and more simple to keep the Arabs blackmailed with a delayed alternate form of energies and not rush it, furthermore, everything was already regularized in 1980, it isn't anymore the case like it was before and during 1960 but neither is begging anyone here, Saudi Arabia invested in their infrastructure, but their industry is absolutely underdeveloped, they are considered as a high-income country, but they are part of the third world in terms of education, industrialization and technological development.

The average IQ level in Saudi Arabia, is around the 84, that says all, even countries with a far less income, have a superior IQ average, like Argentina, with 90-95.

Prince Alwaleed Bin Tal has cars like this, their leaders and the average of their culture are low.

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dernman

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#2466  Edited By dernman

@black3stpanth3r said:

@dernman: See that's where I beg to differ, I don't think we need them as much as you think or they think.

That's because you're oversimplifying things and underscoring our obsession for oil. I thought it was only Reps who make it seem like the US has all the power in the world and get away without consequences. when they use it.

US power is diminishing and it's already spread thin .

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just_sayin

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@just_sayin: In 1938 Johnson secured federal funding for housing in Austin, Texas to benefit Mexican, African American and White slum dwellers.

Johnson was a politician who did whatever and said whatever to get votes. Did you read the link I gave you. It described the various ways in which Johnson would use the n word. Apparently, he enjoyed doing it in a variety of dialects. Did you read his quote on nominating Thurgood Marshall to the Supreme Court. Then tell me he wasn't a racist.

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just_sayin

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@black3stpanth3r: Did you see what Farrakhan tweeted about Jews? "I'm not an anti-Semite. I’m anti-Termite." Why are Democrats so slow to disassociate and renounce his blatant bigotry and racism?

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Lil_Remains

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@just_sayin: Probably the same reasons Trump was slow to renounce David Duke.

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JohnCena69swag

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@just_sayin: In 1938 Johnson secured fundingfor housing in Austin, Texas to benefit Mexican, African American and White slum dwellers.

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BLACK3STPANTH3R

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Oh, look! Migrants!! Another shiny object, hoping, desperately, to take the attention off the ballooning Federal deficit, the record trade deficit with China in September, the stated Republican plans to slash Social Security and Medicare, the roiling stock markets, inflation rising ahead of wage gains, the lack of a Wall, amazing healthcare for all, infrastructure, manufacturers who are not streaming back (his own daughter included), coal mines that are still shuttered, Saudi Arabia, Russia, etc. etc. etc. And the Trumpers go for all the "winning", hook, line and sinker.

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BLACK3STPANTH3R

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@just_sayin: What do we have to show for the trillion $ tax cuts again? Things aren't as rosey you would think.

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BLACK3STPANTH3R

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Okay Mexico, if you don't stop people from coming here, I'll walk out on a trade deal that I desperately need and doesn't actually exist.

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BLACK3STPANTH3R

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@dernman:

@dernman said:
@black3stpanth3r said:

@dernman: See that's where I beg to differ, I don't think we need them as much as you think or they think.

That's because you're oversimplifying things and underscoring our obsession for oil. I thought it was only Reps who make it seem like the US has all the power in the world and get away without consequences. when they use it.

US power is diminishing and it's already spread thin .

@dernman said:
@black3stpanth3r said:

@dernman: With all due respect, I think you are missing the point, the point is that he is trying to cover up for them, I think this is a great departure from past Presidents

In 2015 at a rally in AL, Trump said,

"I get along great with all of [the Saudis] ...They buy apartments from me. They spend $40 million, $50 million. Am I supposed to dislike them? I like them very much!"

Trump has reason to cover this up. Just like he had reason to cover for Putin: his personal interests were at stake.

No I get what you're saying. You're not getting what I'm saying.

The reason Trump is the one where you see the fracking coming is because he's so bad at it and people already distrust him while a real politician who's part of the machine would have a done a better job with the smoke and mirrors.

I totally get what you are saying, I just think it's wrong. There is no justification to serve as a mouthpiece for a regime that murders American journalists, there is no justification to cover it up for them in essence doing their dirty work for them, and last and not least there is no justification for standing in solidarity with a rogue regime that wants to limit the free press, what we should do about it is up to debate, and their have been many productive discussions about it, unfortunately Drumpf turned a blind eye to them, and it landed on his death ears, it's almost like the President has a head of lettuce and ears of corn.

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BLACK3STPANTH3R

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Article 2 of the Constitution defines presidential responsibilities includes foreign relations. This caravan of Nicaraguan refugees trekking North are but the symptom. Nicaragua with it's failing economy and repressive government is the problem. Pres. Trump is negligent in his constitutional duties by not proactively engaging the government of Nicaragua. Of course that would require leadership, diplomatic skills and intelligence: things that the current chief executive simply does not possess.

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mrmonster

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dernman

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#2477  Edited By dernman

@black3stpanth3r said:

@dernman:

@dernman said:
@black3stpanth3r said:

@dernman: See that's where I beg to differ, I don't think we need them as much as you think or they think.

That's because you're oversimplifying things and underscoring our obsession for oil. I thought it was only Reps who make it seem like the US has all the power in the world and get away without consequences. when they use it.

US power is diminishing and it's already spread thin .

@dernman said:
@black3stpanth3r said:

@dernman: With all due respect, I think you are missing the point, the point is that he is trying to cover up for them, I think this is a great departure from past Presidents

In 2015 at a rally in AL, Trump said,

"I get along great with all of [the Saudis] ...They buy apartments from me. They spend $40 million, $50 million. Am I supposed to dislike them? I like them very much!"

Trump has reason to cover this up. Just like he had reason to cover for Putin: his personal interests were at stake.

No I get what you're saying. You're not getting what I'm saying.

The reason Trump is the one where you see the fracking coming is because he's so bad at it and people already distrust him while a real politician who's part of the machine would have a done a better job with the smoke and mirrors.

I totally get what you are saying, I just think it's wrong. There is no justification to serve as a mouthpiece for a regime that murders American journalists, there is no justification to cover it up for them in essence doing their dirty work for them, and last and not least there is no justification for standing in solidarity with a rogue regime that wants to limit the free press, what we should do about it is up to debate, and their have been many productive discussions about it, unfortunately Drumpf turned a blind eye to them, and it landed on his death ears, it's almost like the President has a head of lettuce and ears of corn.

You're not getting anything if you're suggesting I said anything was a justification. You're so trapped in the fight against trump you can't see anything else. You're also ignoring the realities of what goes on. They've have been making and will continue to make excuses, use smoke and mirrors for most every deal they make and those they in bed with. This is a dirty business that noone gets out clean. You think this is the first time something like this has happened? Nah this is just one time they got caught or happened to someone someone with juice cared enough to talk about and be heard. Wake up. This isn't fantasy land where the good guy always wins and sometimes doing the right thing leads you to even more pain than otherwise. Sometimes the opposite thing is true and doing the wrong thing is the better option. Welcome to the real world.

Edit: Because I know you will ignore me yet again and make it about Trump let me say again. This isn't my defense of how Trump handled it. It's just laying down some reality.

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BLACK3STPANTH3R

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@dernman: You think this is the first time something like this has happened?

@dernman said:
@black3stpanth3r said:

@dernman:

@dernman said:
@black3stpanth3r said:

@dernman: See that's where I beg to differ, I don't think we need them as much as you think or they think.

That's because you're oversimplifying things and underscoring our obsession for oil. I thought it was only Reps who make it seem like the US has all the power in the world and get away without consequences. when they use it.

US power is diminishing and it's already spread thin .

@dernman said:
@black3stpanth3r said:

@dernman: With all due respect, I think you are missing the point, the point is that he is trying to cover up for them, I think this is a great departure from past Presidents

In 2015 at a rally in AL, Trump said,

"I get along great with all of [the Saudis] ...They buy apartments from me. They spend $40 million, $50 million. Am I supposed to dislike them? I like them very much!"

Trump has reason to cover this up. Just like he had reason to cover for Putin: his personal interests were at stake.

No I get what you're saying. You're not getting what I'm saying.

The reason Trump is the one where you see the fracking coming is because he's so bad at it and people already distrust him while a real politician who's part of the machine would have a done a better job with the smoke and mirrors.

I totally get what you are saying, I just think it's wrong. There is no justification to serve as a mouthpiece for a regime that murders American journalists, there is no justification to cover it up for them in essence doing their dirty work for them, and last and not least there is no justification for standing in solidarity with a rogue regime that wants to limit the free press, what we should do about it is up to debate, and their have been many productive discussions about it, unfortunately Drumpf turned a blind eye to them, and it landed on his death ears, it's almost like the President has a head of lettuce and ears of corn.

You're not getting anything if you're suggesting I said anything was a justification. You're so trapped in the fight against trump you can't see anything else. You're also ignoring the realities of what goes on. They've have been making and will continue to make excuses, use smoke and mirrors for most every deal they make and those they in bed with. This is a dirty business that noone gets out clean. You think this is the first time something like this has happened? Nah this is just one time they got caught or happened to someone someone with juice cared enough to talk about and be heard. Wake up. This isn't fantasy land where the good guy always wins and sometimes doing the right thing leads you to even more pain than otherwise

You think this is the first time something like this has happened?

^When else has something like this happened?

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dernman

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#2479  Edited By dernman

@black3stpanth3r said:

@dernman:

You think this is the first time something like this has happened?

^When else has something like this happened?

Dude do some research. Governments do bad things to people all the time. They're not always this obviously stupid about it and sometimes they are.

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BLACK3STPANTH3R

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@dernman:

Dude do some research. Governments do bad things to people all the time. They're not always this obviously stupid about it and sometimes they are.

^I know Governments do bad thing all the time, I wasn't talking about other Governments, I was talking about the specific power dynamic between us and the Saudi's.

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BLACK3STPANTH3R

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I hope Republicans realize that if they get rid of Obamacare many people will lose their jobs. What they don't realize is that many of the job growth and gains we have made over the past decade were in fields like healthcare, nursing, and medical practice, partly because millions of people were getting healthcare , millions of people are getting into the medical pool, if we just kick all those people off of healthcare, what need would we have for al these newly made health practicioners? Keep in mind also that since we are now covering pre-existing conditions, there has been great demand for medical specialists who deal with those pre-existing conditions, the same thing will happen if they were to slash medicare and Medicaid like they have been threatening for years. These Repubs are clueless when it comes to job creation. Where are all these jobs the President promised with the trillion dollar tax cut? Wasn't that tax cut supposed to create more jobs? Instead if you look at the job charts it's at the same rate as it was before the huge tax cuts for the wealthy.

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willpayton

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I hope Republicans realize that if they get rid of Obamacare many people will lose their jobs.

Republicans will never realize anything. This is the party that named itself the "Stupid Party" for a reason, they're as dumb as a turd sandwich and twice as repugnant.

These are the same people who deregulate the telecom industry, shooting down regulations put in place to help people after disasters, and then complain after a disaster that those same telecoms dont do enough.

The Federal Communications Commission chairman slammed wireless carriers on Tuesday for failing to quickly restore phone service in Florida after Hurricane Michael, calling the delay "completely unacceptable."

But FCC Chairman Ajit Pai's statement ignored his agency's deregulatory blitz that left consumers without protections designed to ensure restoration of service after disasters, according to longtime telecom attorney and consumer advocate Harold Feld.

Ignoring reality is what Republicans specialize in. So, we could hope all we want about them doing anything even slightly intelligent or moral, but we'd be waiting a very long time for that outcome.

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AbstractRaze

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#2483  Edited By AbstractRaze

The Obamacare was never suited for the American system, furthermore, Obama was inspired by the Swedish, Austrian, German and Norwegian healthcare systems, but the difference between those countries and the U.S is that those European countries are supposed to welcome a qualified immigration, while the U.S is suited for a mass immigration, a land for the inept, the stupid and the intelligent, where anyone cares for himself, if you are capable pay in, good for you, if not, your own fault...

@black3stpanth3r said:

I hope Republicans realize that if they get rid of Obamacare many people will lose their jobs. What they don't realize is that many of the job growth and gains we have made over the past decade were in fields like healthcare, nursing, and medical practice, partly because millions of people were getting healthcare , millions of people are getting into the medical pool, if we just kick all those people off of healthcare, what need would we have for al these newly made health practicioners? Keep in mind also that since we are now covering pre-existing conditions, there has been great demand for medical specialists who deal with those pre-existing conditions, the same thing will happen if they were to slash medicare and Medicaid like they have been threatening for years. These Repubs are clueless when it comes to job creation. Where are all these jobs the President promised with the trillion dollar tax cut? Wasn't that tax cut supposed to create more jobs? Instead if you look at the job charts it's at the same rate as it was before the huge tax cuts for the wealthy.

The Obamacare can only work if the U.S closes its borders and welcomes a specific type of immigration, but there are ways to not affect the people in a direct correlation with such healthcare system, as an example, a funding for a specific preparation in the private healthcare sector and so on.

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just_sayin

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Lil_Remains

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@just_sayin: Almost as bad as Republicans taking away voting for 35,000 black people and Native Americans, huh?

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BLACK3STPANTH3R

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@willpayton:

@black3stpanth3r said:

I hope Republicans realize that if they get rid of Obamacare many people will lose their jobs.

Republicans will never realize anything. This is the party that named itself the "Stupid Party" for a reason, they're as dumb as a turd sandwich and twice as repugnant.

These are the same people who deregulate the telecom industry, shooting down regulations put in place to help people after disasters, and then complain after a disaster that those same telecoms dont do enough.

The Federal Communications Commission chairman slammed wireless carriers on Tuesday for failing to quickly restore phone service in Florida after Hurricane Michael, calling the delay "completely unacceptable."

But FCC Chairman Ajit Pai's statement ignored his agency's deregulatory blitz that left consumers without protections designed to ensure restoration of service after disasters, according to longtime telecom attorney and consumer advocate Harold Feld.

Ignoring reality is what Republicans specialize in. So, we could hope all we want about them doing anything even slightly intelligent or moral, but we'd be waiting a very long time for that outcome.

^Yes exactly

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BLACK3STPANTH3R

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@abstractraze:

The Obamacare was never suited for the American system, furthermore, Obama was inspired by the Swedish, Austrian, German and Norwegian healthcare systems, but the difference between those countries and the U.S is that those European countries are supposed to welcome a qualified immigration, while the U.S is suited for a mass immigration, a land for the inept, the stupid and the intelligent, where anyone cares for himself, if you are capable pay in, good for you, if not, your own fault...

@black3stpanth3r said:

I hope Republicans realize that if they get rid of Obamacare many people will lose their jobs. What they don't realize is that many of the job growth and gains we have made over the past decade were in fields like healthcare, nursing, and medical practice, partly because millions of people were getting healthcare , millions of people are getting into the medical pool, if we just kick all those people off of healthcare, what need would we have for al these newly made health practicioners? Keep in mind also that since we are now covering pre-existing conditions, there has been great demand for medical specialists who deal with those pre-existing conditions, the same thing will happen if they were to slash medicare and Medicaid like they have been threatening for years. These Repubs are clueless when it comes to job creation. Where are all these jobs the President promised with the trillion dollar tax cut? Wasn't that tax cut supposed to create more jobs? Instead if you look at the job charts it's at the same rate as it was before the huge tax cuts for the wealthy.

The Obamacare can only work if the U.S closes its borders and welcomes a specific type of immigration, but there are ways to not affect the people in a direct correlation with such healthcare system, as an example, a funding for a specific preparation in the private healthcare sector and so on.

^With all due respect, obamacare has nothing to do with immigration, these immigrants aren't even eligible for Obamacare.

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BLACK3STPANTH3R

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@just_sayin:

^ You will believe anything won't you, that's not even a credible article, and it hasn't been substantiated by anything or anyone. After the election Trump asked for an investigation of voter fraud and they came up with nothing, even after his own investigation came up empty he is left spouting disproven conspiracy theories, the only voter fraud is the one perpetrated by Tramp campaign and Putin.

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BLACK3STPANTH3R

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@just_sayin: Here read this, sometimes I wonder if you actually read my rebuttals, I'm not sure that you do, because I intentionally left you an opening in a debate that we were having a few days ago, I wanted to see if you would pick up on it, but you didn't, so I can only assume that you aren't really reading my responses anyway :

Debunking the Voter Fraud Myth

The president has continued to claim voter fraud was a problem in the 2016 election. But a look at the facts makes clear fraud is vanishingly rare, and does not happen on a scale even close to that necessary to “rig” an election.

January 31, 2017

[Download PDF]

Sensationalist claims have circulated this election season about the extent of voter fraud, with some politicians going so far as to tell voters to fear that this November’s election will be “rigged.” Because electoral integrity is one of the elements necessary to making America the greatest democracy in the world, claims like this garner media attention, and frighten and concern voters. But putting rhetoric aside to look at the facts makes clear that fraud by voters at the polls is vanishingly rare, and does not happen on a scale even close to that necessary to “rig” an election.

Studies Agree: Impersonation Fraud by Voters Very Rarely Happens

  • The Brennan Center’s seminal report on this issue, The Truth About Voter Fraud, found that most reported incidents of voter fraud are actually traceable to other sources, such as clerical errors or bad data matching practices. The report reviewed elections that had been meticulously studied for voter fraud, and found incident rates between 0.0003 percent and 0.0025 percent. Given this tiny incident rate for voter impersonation fraud, it is more likely, the report noted, that an American “will be struck by lightning than that he will impersonate another voter at the polls.”
  • A study published by a Columbia University political scientist tracked incidence rates for voter fraud for two years, and found that the rare fraud that was reported generally could be traced to “false claims by the loser of a close race, mischief and administrative or voter error.”
  • A 2017 analysis published in The Washington Post concluded that there is no evidence to support Trump’s claim that Massachusetts residents were bused into New Hampshire to vote.
  • A comprehensive 2014 study published in The Washington Post found 31 credible instances of impersonation fraud from 2000 to 2014, out of more than 1 billion ballots cast. Even this tiny number is likely inflated, as the study’s author counted not just prosecutions or convictions, but any and all credible claims.
  • Two studies done at Arizona State University, one in 2012 and another in 2016, found similarly negligible rates of impersonation fraud. The project found 10 cases of voter impersonation fraud nationwide from 2000-2012. The follow-up study, which looked for fraud specifically in states where politicians have argued that fraud is a pernicious problem, found zero successful prosecutions for impersonation fraud in five states from 2012-2016.
  • A review of the 2016 election found four documented cases of voter fraud.
  • Research into the 2016 election found no evidence of widespread voter fraud.
  • A 2016 working paper concluded that the upper limit on double voting in the 2012 election was 0.02%. The paper noted that the incident rate was likely much lower, given audits conducted by the researchers showed that “many, if not all, of these apparent double votes could be a result of measurement error.”
  • A 2014 paper concluded that “the likely percent of non-citizen voters in recent US elections is 0.”
  • A 2014 nationwide study found “no evidence of widespread impersonation fraud” in the 2012 election.
  • A 2014 study that examined impersonation fraud both at the polls and by mail ballot found zero instances in the jurisdictions studied.
  • A 2014 study by the non-partisan Government Accountability Office, which reflected a literature review of the existing research on voter fraud, noted that the studies consistently found “few instances of in-person voter fraud.”
  • While writing a 2012 book, a researcher went back 30 years to try to find an example of voter impersonation fraud determining the outcome of an election, but was unable to find even one.
  • A 2012 study exhaustively pulled records from every state for all alleged election fraud, and found the overall fraud rate to be “infinitesimal” and impersonation fraud by voters at the polls to be the rarest fraud of all: only 10 cases alleged in 12 years. The same study found only 56 alleged cases of non-citizen voting, in 12 years.
  • A 2012 assessment of Georgia’s 2006 election found “no evidence that election fraud was committed under the auspices of deceased registrants.”
  • A 2011 study by the Republican National Lawyers Association found that, between 2000 and 2010, 21 states had 1 or 0 convictions for voter fraud or other kinds of voting irregularities.
  • A 2010 book cataloguing reported incidents of voter fraud concluded that nearly all allegations turned out to be clerical errors or mistakes, not fraud.
  • A 2009 analysis examined 12 states and found that fraud by voters was “very rare,” and also concluded that many of the cases that garnered media attention were ultimately unsubstantiated upon further review.
  • Additional research on noncitizen voting can be found here: http://www.brennancenter.org/analysis/analysis-noncitizen-voting-vanishingly-rare.
  • Additional resources can be found here: https://www.brennancenter.org/analysis/analysis-and-reports.

Courts Agree: Fraud by Voters at the Polls is Nearly Non-Existent

  • The Fifth Circuit, in an opinion finding that Texas’s strict photo ID law is racially discriminatory, noted that there were “only two convictions for in-person voter impersonation fraud out of 20 million votes cast in the decade” before Texas passed its law.
  • In its opinion striking down North Carolina’s omnibus restrictive election law —which included a voter ID requirement — as purposefully racially discriminatory, the Fourth Circuit noted that the state “failed to identify even a single individual who has ever been charged with committing in-person voter fraud in North Carolina.”
  • A federal trial court in Wisconsin reviewing that state’s strict photo ID law found “that impersonation fraud — the type of fraud that voter ID is designed to prevent — is extremely rare” and “a truly isolated phenomenon that has not posed a significant threat to the integrity of Wisconsin’s elections.”
  • Even the Supreme Court, in its opinion in Crawford upholding Indiana’s voter ID law, noted that the record in the case “contains no evidence of any [in-person voter impersonation] fraud actually occurring in Indiana at any time in its history.” Two of the jurists who weighed in on that case at the time — Republican-appointed former Supreme Court Justice John Paul Stevens and conservative appellate court Judge Richard Posner — have since announced they regret their votes in favor of the law, with Judge Posner noting that strict photo ID laws are “now widely regarded as a means of voter suppression rather than of fraud prevention.”

Government Investigations Agree: Voter Fraud Is Rare

  • Kansas Secretary of State Kris Kobach, a longtime proponent of voter suppression efforts, argued before state lawmakers that his office needed special power to prosecute voter fraud, because he knew of 100 such cases in his state. After being granted these powers, he has brought six such cases, of which only four have been successful. The secretary has also testified about his review of 84 million votes cast in 22 states, which yielded 14 instances of fraud referred for prosecution, which amounts to a 0.00000017 percent fraud rate.
  • Texas lawmakers purported to pass its strict photo ID law to protect against voter fraud. Yet the chief law enforcement official in the state responsible for such prosecutions knew of only one conviction and one guilty plea that involved in-person voter fraud in all Texas elections from 2002 through 2014.
  • A specialized United States Department of Justice unit formed with the goal of finding instances of federal election fraud examined the 2002 and 2004 federal elections, and were able to prove that 0.00000013 percent of ballots cast were fraudulent. There was no evidence that any of these incidents involved in-person impersonation fraud. Over a five year period, they found “no concerted effort to tilt the election.”
  • An investigation in Colorado, in which the Secretary of State alleged 100 cases of voter fraud, yielded one conviction.
  • In Maine, an investigation into 200 college students revealed no evidence of fraud. Shortly thereafter, an Elections Commission appointed by a Republican secretary of state found “there is little or no history in Maine of voter impersonation or identification fraud.”
  • In Florida, a criminal investigation into nine individuals who allegedly committed absentee ballot fraud led to all criminal charges being dismissed against all voters.
  • In 2012, Florida Governor Rick Scott initiated an effort to remove non-citizen registrants from the state’s rolls. The state’s list of 182,000 alleged non-citizen registrants quickly dwindled to 198. Even this amended list contained many false positives, such as a WWII veteran born in Brooklyn. In the end, only 85 non-citizen registrants were identified and only one was convicted of fraud, out of a total of 12 million registered voters.
  • In Iowa, a multi-year investigation into fraud led to just 27 prosecutions out of 1.6 million ballots cast. In 2014 the state issued a report on the investigation citing only six prosecutions.
  • In Wisconsin, a task force charged 20 individuals with election crimes. The majority charged were individuals with prior criminal convictions, who are often caught up by confusing laws regarding restoration of their voting rights.

The verdict is in from every corner that voter fraud is sufficiently rare that it simply could not and does not happen at the rate even approaching that which would be required to “rig” an election. Electoral integrity is key to our democracy, and politicians who genuinely care about protecting our elections should focus not on phantom fraud concerns, but on those abuses that actually threaten election security.

As historians and election experts have catalogued, there is a long history in this country of racially suppressive voting measures — including poll taxes and all-white primaries — put in place under the guise of stopping voter fraud that wasn’t actually occurring in the first place. The surest way toward voting that is truly free, fair, and accessible is to know the facts in the face of such rhetoric.

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AbstractRaze

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#2491  Edited By AbstractRaze

@black3stpanth3r said:

@abstractraze:

@abstractraze said:

The Obamacare was never suited for the American system, furthermore, Obama was inspired by the Swedish, Austrian, German and Norwegian healthcare systems, but the difference between those countries and the U.S is that those European countries are supposed to welcome a qualified immigration, while the U.S is suited for a mass immigration, a land for the inept, the stupid and the intelligent, where anyone cares for himself, if you are capable pay in, good for you, if not, your own fault...

@black3stpanth3r said:

I hope Republicans realize that if they get rid of Obamacare many people will lose their jobs. What they don't realize is that many of the job growth and gains we have made over the past decade were in fields like healthcare, nursing, and medical practice, partly because millions of people were getting healthcare , millions of people are getting into the medical pool, if we just kick all those people off of healthcare, what need would we have for al these newly made health practicioners? Keep in mind also that since we are now covering pre-existing conditions, there has been great demand for medical specialists who deal with those pre-existing conditions, the same thing will happen if they were to slash medicare and Medicaid like they have been threatening for years. These Repubs are clueless when it comes to job creation. Where are all these jobs the President promised with the trillion dollar tax cut? Wasn't that tax cut supposed to create more jobs? Instead if you look at the job charts it's at the same rate as it was before the huge tax cuts for the wealthy.

The Obamacare can only work if the U.S closes its borders and welcomes a specific type of immigration, but there are ways to not affect the people in a direct correlation with such healthcare system, as an example, a funding for a specific preparation in the private healthcare sector and so on.

^With all due respect, obamacare has nothing to do with immigration, these immigrants aren't even eligible for Obamacare.

Indirectly yes, after their naturalization/obtaining the nationalization, I don't know if this is the right term, in German is Einbürgerung and it's by far easier in the U.S than in many European countries.

At the end of the road, they remain unqualified if it's the case.

PS: The roughly 19.8 million naturalized citizens in 2015 made up about 44% of the U.S foreign-born population.

The total number of naturalized immigrants in the U.S increased from 14.4 million in 2005 to 19.8 million in 2015, a 37% increase.

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BLACK3STPANTH3R

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BLACK3STPANTH3R

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@abstractraze:

Indirectly yes, after their naturalization/obtaining the nationalization, I don't know if this is the right term, in German is Einbürgerung and it's by far easier in the U.S than in many European countries.

At the end of the road, they remain unqualified if it's the case.

PS: The roughly 19.8 million naturalized citizens in 2015 made up about 44% of the U.S foreign-born population.

The total number of naturalized immigrants in the U.S increased from 14.4 million in 2005 to 19.8 million in 2015, a 37% increase.

^So the F*ck what? Those eligible for Obamacare can obtain Obamacare, those ineligible for it cannot, it has nothing to do with immigration or borders.

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AbstractRaze

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#2494  Edited By AbstractRaze

@black3stpanth3r said:

@abstractraze:

^So the F*ck what? Those eligible for Obamacare can obtain Obamacare, those ineligible for it cannot, it has nothing to do with immigration or borders.

Seems you don't grasp my point, unqualified immigration does not compensate such forms of healthcare, because it's an unreliable immigration which won't generate enough economic growth for the country, force labor isn't everything, intellectualism is a priority for such forms of healthcare, because qualified immigrants, generate a solid income for the state, those giving sense at the time of introducing such forms of healthcare.

Before the Obamacare, such thing was almost irrelevant, the Obamacare can be considered as an anti-mass-immigration policy, which makes sense, because during Obama's presidency, the deportation rate was by far higher.

It does not only work, it's a stab against the American taxpayers, because there is no real compensation, it's much better to invest in the education and other more attractive policies.

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BLACK3STPANTH3R

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@abstractraze:

It does not only work, it's a stab against the American taxpayers, because there is no real compensation, it's much better to invest in the education and other more attractive policies.

^We should invest in all of that, including the health of all those who are eligible.

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AbstractRaze

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#2496  Edited By AbstractRaze

@black3stpanth3r said:

@abstractraze:

It does not only work, it's a stab against the American taxpayers, because there is no real compensation, it's much better to invest in the education and other more attractive policies.

^We should invest in all of that, including the health of all those who are eligible.

Yes healthcare is essential, but the Obamacare does not suit the American system, so simple as that, you can expect a reliable efficiency from a random peasant, as harsh it sounds, it's a reality, Norway/Germany/Austria, etc... aren't the U.S, vice-versa.

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BLACK3STPANTH3R

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@abstractraze:

Yes healthcare is essential, but the Obamacare does not suit the American system, so simple as that, you can expect a reliable efficiency from a random peasant, as harsh it sounds, it's a reality, Norway/Germany/Austria, etc... aren't the U.S, vice-versa.

^Tell that to people with pre-existing conditions, in fact the majority of the country supports Obamacare.

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AbstractRaze

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#2498  Edited By AbstractRaze

@black3stpanth3r said:

@abstractraze:

Yes healthcare is essential, but the Obamacare does not suit the American system, so simple as that, you can expect a reliable efficiency from a random peasant, as harsh it sounds, it's a reality, Norway/Germany/Austria, etc... aren't the U.S, vice-versa.

^Tell that to people with pre-existing conditions, in fact the majority of the country supports Obamacare.

The Obamacare is a mediocre imitation of the following European healthcare laws, if the majority of the Americans which were 53% in 2014 voted for such a thing, it's because the Democrats were at the time the favorites and it has a lot to do with ignorance, American's don't know the real consequences of such a thing, while here in Germany, Austria, Sweden, Denmark and The Netherlands, we're experiencing negative results since the approval of mass-immigration by the European Union Council, France, Italy, Spain are experiencing an economic and a social-cultural degradation as well.

But our situation is different, because our birthrate is low, so, such a thing is a cheap way to partially fix the problem, instead of implementing policies in order to encourage Europeans to have so many kids as possible or form families.

The leftist liberal scum is supporting the easy way, while the European rightwing/conservatives are more interested in encouraging their native birthrate, the U.S doesn't have a low birthrate.

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willpayton

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@willpayton: Hey Buddy is the baby here yet?

Yes! My baby boy was born 3 days ago. =) I might not have much time to hand around here from now on.

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willpayton

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@black3stpanth3r said:

@abstractraze:

Yes healthcare is essential, but the Obamacare does not suit the American system, so simple as that, you can expect a reliable efficiency from a random peasant, as harsh it sounds, it's a reality, Norway/Germany/Austria, etc... aren't the U.S, vice-versa.

^Tell that to people with pre-existing conditions, in fact the majority of the country supports Obamacare.

The Obamacare is a mediocre imitation of the following European healthcare laws, if the majority of the Americans which were 53% in 2014 voted for such a thing, it's because the Democrats were at the time the favorites and it has a lot to do with ignorance, American's don't know the real consequences of such a thing, while here in Germany, Austria, Sweden, Denmark and The Netherlands, we're experiencing negative results since the approval of mass-immigration by the European Union Council, France, Italy, Spain are experiencing an economic and a cultural degradation as well.

But our situation is different, because our birthrate is low, so, such a thing is a cheap way to partially fix the problem, instead of implementing policies in order to encourage Europeans to have so many kids as possible or form families.

The leftist liberal scum is supporting the easy way, while the European rightwing/conservatives are more interested in encouraging their native birthrate, the U.S doesn't have a low birthrate.

Obamacare was basically a copy of the Heritage Foundation proposal and very much similar to "Romneycare" in Massachusetts. It has nothing to do with European countries. If we were smart, we WOULD follow the model set in many Euro countries and adopt universal healthcare. As is our country wastes a lot of money on healthcare because of the crappy system we have where employers have to deal with this and insurance companies can charge whatever they want because there's very little visibility into pricing nor is healthcare a situation where "supply and demand" works anyway.