POLITICS THREAD

Hunter Biden secured a meeting with Secretary of State John Kerry regarding assisting Burisma in its efforts to stop an Ukrainian investigation into its activities just a few days before Biden's visit. The article also points out something not reported prominently in the US press that though Ukraine did not feel a Ukrainian law was broken by Biden's behavior, it did feel that US laws had been broken.

https://johnsolomonreports.com/hunter-bidens-ukraine-gas-firm-pressed-obama-administration-to-end-corruption-allegations-memos-show/

Trump is right, there should be an investigation into what Hunter Biden's role in Burisma was and why he solicited the US government's help.

That's generally not true though. The Olympics have allowed trans athletes for over ten years, and there is no trend of trans-women dominating at all.

@thekillerklok Probably not smart to rely on westernjournal if you dont want emotionally loaded news.

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/western-journalism/

@just_sayin John Solomon is also not a credible source of information in 2019. During Trump's presidency, he has been known for advancing Trump-friendly stories. He played a role in advancing conspiracy theories about wrong-doing involving Joe Biden, his son Hunter Biden and Ukraine; Solomon's stories about the Bidens influenced President Trump to request that the Ukrainian President launch an investigation into 2020 Democratic presidential candidate Joe Biden, which led to an impeachment inquiry into President Trump. There is no evidence of wrong-doing by Joe Biden and Hunter Biden.

Let the debate begin.

I'm up for any topic. Right vs Left. Media bias and credibility. Conspiracies, science, culture, Trump, Dem vs Rep or anything else. I'll be as fair as possible.

How can they possibly allow trans in women sports? They are at most sick men and aren’t women if we really want to take into consideration their transition.

@official_chad3: If you tag me I can keep up with the convo. Everyone has to undergo extensive testing to be able to compete within a certain branch (especially at higher levels). Regardless of biological sex. Biological women with too much testosterone can't compete with other women. Trans women that want to compete with other women has to fulfill the exact same criteria.

@megafanflash: Well I don’t want to directly argue with you because from what I have seen, you are debating different subject... I am just surprised how they allow sick men to compete against women in women sports.. Why not men against women as well in women sports if sick men can do it?

@official_chad3: DW. I'm only here to have a reasonable discussion. Regardless of if you want to call them trans women or sick men ( I dont feel strongly either way btw ) they are able to compete if they meet the right criteria. It makes sense. Like how it doesn't matter what genitalia you have if you have the same mass, weight, testosterone etc. These are all measured and you can compete accordingly.

@megafanflash: Then it shouldn’t be called women sports. Wimps can compete with women as well.... They aren’t women they are sick men..

Anyone that uses performance altering drugs whether to improve performance (eg: steroids) or the downgrade it because of a natural physiological advantage (eg: artificial hormone) should not be allowed in a sports that qualifies natural talent and the product of physical training.

It's unfair to all atheletes.

The Olympics is considering several options to address the transgender issue from setting different levels allowable of testerone that would be monitored for over a year period prior to competition, to time penalties depending on the sport.

Solomon's information is based on FOIA requests. It simply quotes parts of emails and confirms publicly available meeting schedules. His leanings make no difference in the evidence. Exactly why was a Ukrainian company, Burisma, asking and receiving a meeting with the US State Department to intervene for them and naming Hunter Biden by name?

@official_chad3: Sure. You can call it whatever you want. But you can't call it unfair. The Olympics had to do extensive testing and research over several years and the consensus was clear.

@mimisalome: Wouldn't it be unfair for a dude with naturally slightly higher testosterone than others to be denied continuation as an athlete? Why shouldn't he be able to downgrade and undergo the right steps to compete with the rest?

As long as you meet the requirement on the point of competing, as the scientist and biologists working at the highest level of sports have agreed upon.. It should probably be fine to trust them over our feels.

@megafanflash: If it is truly fair(no difference between each candidate at all) there can’t even be a contest.... You want a competition because you want to know who is better than whom, via training etc. To make it fair is by pairing similar individuals, girl who has trained for one year and another girl who has trained for a bit longer, with each other and let them compete. You can’t possibly put sick men against women.

@megafanflash:

Its unfair to transgenders because the regulation is forcing them to mute their natural physical potential via application of synthetic and naturally unsustainable intake of artificial hormone, otherwise they cannot participate in the sports.

The regulation forbids them from reaching their fullest natural athletic potentials.

Its unfair to naturally born women because they don't have access to this naturally occuring physiological advantage that the transgender have right from the start.

Sports, since time immemorial, is a qualification of natural talent obtain from the persons naturally occuring physiology and their athletic skills harnessed through rigorous physical training.

Any application of "synthetic chemicals" invalidates these ideals.

@just_sayin:

The Olympics is considering several options to address the transgender issue from setting different levels allowable of testerone that would be monitored for over a year period prior to competition, to time penalties depending on the sport.

Yes. That is what I am saying? They have allowed trans-gendered people to compete within the different levels of testosterone, weight etc, like with any other candidate for more than ten years. The testing has to be extensive of course, as it is and has been. Nothing is flawless and there is room for improvement, for trans or other athletes.

Solomon's information is based on FOIA requests. It simply quotes parts of emails and confirms publicly available meeting schedules. His leanings make no difference in the evidence. Exactly why was a Ukrainian company, Burisma, asking and receiving a meeting with the US State Department to intervene for them and naming Hunter Biden by name?

I don't know why a Ukrainian company asked for Biden by name. Neither do you. It's extremely interesting though, looking at your posts above how charitable you are to Trump in a very similar position, yet focus on Biden relying on a source that has lied and pushed narratives for Trump since he became a prominent political figure.

I'll be completely honest though. I would need some time to read up on this specific topic. But going of on your earlier posts in this thread, I think we have a pretty good starting point.

@megafanflash: Apparently men are now allowed in women's sport. lmao This doesn't even need an in-depth political debate. A male transitioning to female is still a male, regardless of what his sick mind thinks. Can I enter a horse race because I identify as a horse? lol There's a reason it's called women's sports.

The issue is that there are physical differences which do not go away with transitioning such as bigger bones, a larger heart and larger lungs for those born with a penis. Larger lungs and heart make a difference in some sports that require more blood flow and oxygen. Larger bone mass and height are advantageous in several sports too. These physical differences put women at a disadvantage in direct competition with men in sports where those physical differences matter. If it did not, then there would not be men's and women's groups for each sport. There is a reason men and women do not compete against the opposite sex in the Olympics.

If you are under the notion that men and women perform relatively the same at the Olympics - please look at the Olympic record times in track and field for men and women. Do you notice the obvious trend? Men's scores are significantly faster, higher and farther.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Olympic_records_in_athletics

How is it fair for a natural born woman athlete to have to compete with a male-born women athlete who has genetic advantages associated with being born male?

@official_chad3: Fair as in minimal biological advantage, same category when it comes to weight and build. I dont even know how to respond to what you wrote there..

Again, the research and science that made this decision does not align with your position. You are still entitled to your opinion though.

@mimisalome: "The regulation forbids them from reaching their fullest athletic potentials."

Well of course? The fullest potential of a biological man is generally massively superior to the potential of a biological women. This is about the different categories and classes they want to compete in. They have to meet the requirements, regardless of sex.

The testing done is specifically there to hinder any large disparity aside from training and experience.

What are you suggesting though? That we create another category for trans individuals that doesn't want to reduce testosterone?

@zgtfreak:Well if you read a bit closer you would understand it. As stated, regardless of what you want to call these people, they have to meet the same requirements. They have been allowed to compete for more than ten years and there is no trend of trans athletes dominating.

We're not talking about what you identify as. We are talking about if it's fair competition, which the science supports.

@megafanflash: So still a superiority. It is for the most part unfair.

Pretty much they have no idea what they are doing.

@zgtfreak: Something I can agree with you lol.

Yes. I agree that there is problematic aspects of it. Which is why the testing and measurements has to be so extensive, but they are VERY necessarily to ensure a leveled playing field. I know all about the biological advantages, and just having more testosterone earlier in your life can give massive permanent one up on the competition. Bone mass, height and even build is measured (at least at higher levels).

If the researchers, institutions, the Olympics etc and biologists were wrong about all of this. Why aren't we seeing trans women dominate in every field they partake?

I'm definitely not suggesting that biological women or men are relatively comparable at all. This is VERY notable in for example weight lifting, where even in the earlier stages of competition, men lift nearly TWICE that of women.

That's not what I'm arguing, and you knew that.

@official_chad3: Maybe. Though there really isn't sign of superiority by trans women yet. It could be a question of time though. I'm not going to deny the possible future when we inevitably get more trans people. I'm always open to being wrong, but right now it seems to be fine.

@megafanflash:

I'm suggesting that sports since time immemorial is all about qualification of naturally occuring talents, and the product of hard work and training.

If you cannot reach your fullest natural potential because the regulation is inhibiting from doing so via imposition of unnatural and unsustainable administration of synthetic substance then it is unfair for people who had such issue.

Let say there is a biologically female person that has an abnormally high but naturally-occuring testosterone level, should we also prevent her from reaching her full physiological potential just the cater to this standard of "fairness" which was enforce just to accomodate the transgenders?

Who will supply her with these unnatural, unsustainable and unhealthy hormone altering chemical substances, that she does not need in the first place?

Sport is a platform that tests and identifies who is the best of the best among us.

If we employ a regulation that systematically neutered a person's naturally occuring advantages and physiology then what's the point of having a sport?

@megafanflash: There isn't a "minimal" biologic advantage there is a MASSIVE biological advantage in everything from bone and muscle density to reaction times, and these advantage# are IMPOSSIBLE for natural born women to close on. These results are being born out now, in real time, as teenage girls and young women are being dominated in their slorrs by men.

The woman's world record for the 100 meter doesn't even qualify you for a man's high school team. The absolute best fem@le tennis player to ever exist trained with a bottom ranked man, and Serena got her ass handed to her-the only surprise was that in one set she scored a point.

Also, your statements about the olympics are dishonest as hell-since there has NEVER BEEN A TRANS ATHLETE IN THE OLYMPICS.

Thús your sample size to try an prove your point is literally zero.

What you're spitting is bullshit-as for articles favorable to trump? No. You are ignoring the evidence while biting the media bias.

Just to give some nuance to the topic.

The scientists had been expected to recommend halving the permitted testosterone levels for trans women competing in elite sport. However, several sources have confirmed to the Guardian that the IOC’s draft guidelines have been parked, for now, because the whole subject is so politically charged and sensitive.

That's bad. Really bad. We should trust the professionals and data to the best of our abilities.

@mimisalome: Sure. A lot of that makes sense.

employ a regulation that systematically neutered a person's naturally occuring advantages and physiology then what's the point of having a sport?

Well, you explained it yourself earlier so I'm a bit confused. Do you want everyone to be able to compete, even with naturally higher test? Or do you want no one to compete if their test dont match? And if so, why not do extensive testing so their biologi match the requirements for that specific class?

There may be legit reasons why the State Department held a meeting in behalf of a Ukrainian company, Burisma, that it has no jurisdiction over, regarding a Ukrainian investigation into corporate corruption. There maybe a legitimate reason why Burisma hired a guy who can't speak the language and has never been part of an energy company to sit on its board making $50,000 a month other than his dad's political power. And there may be an explanation other than the one the fired Ukrainian Justice Minister claims regarding a quid pro quo initiated by Joe Biden to the president of the Ukraine involving denying a billion dollars in support if the guy heading up the investigation into Burisma was not immediately fired. There should be an investigation though. And isn't that just what Trump asked about?

The truth is that there is more evidence of quid pro Joe's quid pro quo than Trump's. A Ukrainian government official claimed he was told he was fired because of a quid pro quo and stated so in a court filing regarding his wrongful termination suit. We have the transcript of Trump's meeting and there is no quid pro quo to be found in it.

You should read what's been said above. We all agree and know of these advantages. A normal man wouldn't be able to compete with women. These are select individuals that have the right requirements and match every criteria. This is some strict measurements. As stated repeatedly, we dont see trans women dominating, (even rarely placing in the top) which is why it's not impossible for them to compete. I could either listen to you or the extensive research and science.

"The woman's world record for the 100 meter doesn't even qualify you for a man's high school team. The absolute best fem@le tennis player to ever exist trained with a bottom ranked man, and Serena got her ass handed to her-the only surprise was that in one set she scored a point."

Again, this is not what anyone here is contending. As stated by all parts repeatedly.

"Also, your statements about the olympics are dishonest as hell-since there has NEVER BEEN A TRANS ATHLETE IN THE OLYMPICS.

Thús your sample size to try an prove your point is literally zero."

You think there has been zero trans athletes in the Olympics since 2004? (That's when it was allowed)

You also understand that these people compete and participate listed as women or men?

On that note, they likely haven't done very well either. If they did, you would be telling me about it right now and I would have a weaker argument.

"What you're spitting is bullshit-as for articles favorable to trump? No. You are ignoring the evidence while biting the media bias."

Biting the media bias by double checking the credibility of the source. Finding out that said source repeatedly pushes anti left and pro Trump information. I don't think I'm the one affected by any bias here.

Also, chill. This is a calm and collected conversation. If you can't handle it, dont engage.

@just_sayin: There should definitely be an investigation. However, what Trump suggested, although Ukraine (obivously) denies that notion, was a hint of pressure or consequence if they didn't assist. Would you not agree?

@megafanflash: It is already wrong once you allow sick men into women sport. It is a sport for women only otherwise there should not be anything related to this kind of subject if they are going to allow sick men to join. It is not a mistaken use of term but it somehow is destroying the very sense of women sport....

@official_chad3: Sure buddy. I'm not going to contend that. If you dont like them or find this whole speil disgusting or whatever, I'm obviously not going to argue. I just have to rely on the current professional consensus.

@megafanflash: No, I am not saying that is disgusting. We can have sick men sport if they would be eager to see it but why include them to women sport? It is just doesn’t make sense.

Naturally occuring talent as define by the individuals naturally occuring physiology

would imply no artificial intervention and manipulation of the body.

Injecting synthetic chemicals whether to artificially improve a performance or to artificially neutered an advantage just to met a set regulation is unfair to all parties and contrary to the ideals of Sports

There may need to be a special set of categories like how special olympics divides its competitions based on the physical or mental limitations of the competitors.

If trans-freaks just HAVE to play sports, they should be in their own category. Male, female, trans-male, and trans-female; that's one way to keep it fair.

@iron_tiger: I recommend editing that before a mod sees it.

@dernman: There's nothing wrong with my post. If a mod does find an issue with it, they're better off reacting to others using actual foul language. It's no different than calling someone a fanboy.

Now Trump and Rand Paul are proposing breaking the law and trying to make the identity of the whistleblower public. Those whistleblower laws are there for a reason.

As usual, Republicans only want to follow laws and the Constitution when it suits them.

@iron_tiger: "shrugs" it's your risk to take so I won't get involved. Just giving you a heads up, I've been here a long time and I don't see them agreeing, or siding with you on this. Especially if someone makes an issue of it because they have an axe to grind against you, or are offended.

@dernman: I wouldn't care if someone got offended. The word "freak" isn't inherently evil, anyway. I'm sure mods have more important things to do than bitch about someone saying that.

Sylvanas Windrunner For president....

*shocked* You betray Tulsi?!! Time for you to be sacrificed to the god of Mauna Loa to vanquish the coming Blizzard and free Hong Kong.

@dernman: Still for Tulsi but

SYLVANAS WILL SET US FREEEEEEEEEE...

@dernman: Oceanic Gods are pretty cool.

anyone have the original leaked audio?

Bill clinton and prince andrew btfo.

Is the term sick men evil?

Not really, since it is an adjective.

You know she is a horrible leader to the Horde, enough to lose her position due to sheer pride and alienation between her and the vile "rats" of her Horde (as she puts it).

@cable_extreme: good