Political Vibe: What is your view on abortion?

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#201 Posted by MatthewParker (4562 posts) - - Show Bio

@jaken7 said:

@matthewparker: You can quote all you want, Eisenfauste just didn't want you quoting the comment where he gets called out, because that gives him another notification.

Anyways, welcome to differing viewpoints. It looks like it's on its way to eventually developing into a human, but as it is, it's a freaky alien thing.

Also, what do you the think the size of that is? More than microscopic, but probably less than the naked eye could see (going off of how tiny premies are when they're prematurely born months and months later). Are there any pictures of a 9 week old fetus out of the womb? Hmm...wonder why not.

There are pics! check out this article, if you dont want to read, just scroll down to the pics, It might be a little graphic, so be warned.

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#202 Posted by OverLordArhas (7927 posts) - - Show Bio

@matthewparker:

Yes I am.

Look here.

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/off-topic-5/i-m-evil-and-a-geist-ask-me-something-1491806/

*Shameless Self-Advertisement*

As for Jake, don't get his stated, he might recruit you to his Mass Effect and Game of Thrones Cult. ;p

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#203 Posted by MatthewParker (4562 posts) - - Show Bio
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#204 Posted by Erik (32502 posts) - - Show Bio

@jaken7 said:

@matthewparker: You can quote all you want, Eisenfauste just didn't want you quoting the comment where he gets called out, because that gives him another notification.

Anyways, welcome to differing viewpoints. It looks like it's on its way to eventually developing into a human, but as it is, it's a freaky alien thing.

Also, what do you the think the size of that is? More than microscopic, but probably less than the naked eye could see (going off of how tiny premies are when they're prematurely born months and months later). Are there any pictures of a 9 week old fetus out of the womb? Hmm...wonder why not.

There are pics! check out this article, if you dont want to read, just scroll down to the pics, It might be a little graphic, so be warned.

Nothing in those pics that I haven't seen in my cadaver lab a hundred times.

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#205 Posted by MatthewParker (4562 posts) - - Show Bio

@erik said:

@matthewparker said:

@jaken7 said:

@matthewparker: You can quote all you want, Eisenfauste just didn't want you quoting the comment where he gets called out, because that gives him another notification.

Anyways, welcome to differing viewpoints. It looks like it's on its way to eventually developing into a human, but as it is, it's a freaky alien thing.

Also, what do you the think the size of that is? More than microscopic, but probably less than the naked eye could see (going off of how tiny premies are when they're prematurely born months and months later). Are there any pictures of a 9 week old fetus out of the womb? Hmm...wonder why not.

There are pics! check out this article, if you dont want to read, just scroll down to the pics, It might be a little graphic, so be warned.

Nothing in those pics that I haven't seen in my cadaver lab a hundred times.

thats cool.

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#206 Posted by OverLordArhas (7927 posts) - - Show Bio

@matthewparker: German for Ghost and you are too young too know the dark history of Off Topic. Just to let you know, it includes a group of people, an invasion, and mass slaughter.

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#207 Posted by MatthewParker (4562 posts) - - Show Bio

@matthewparker: German for Ghost and you are too young too know the dark history of Off Topic. Just to let you know, it includes a group of people, an invasion, and mass slaughter.

joke? legend? what is it?

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#208 Posted by Erik (32502 posts) - - Show Bio

@matthewparker: German for Ghost and you are too young too know the dark history of Off Topic. Just to let you know, it includes a group of people, an invasion, and mass slaughter.

I'd say it was a failed invasion then. :p

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#209 Edited by MatthewParker (4562 posts) - - Show Bio

@erik said:

@OverLordArhas said:

@matthewparker: German for Ghost and you are too young too know the dark history of Off Topic. Just to let you know, it includes a group of people, an invasion, and mass slaughter.

I'd say it was a failed invasion then. :p

is this a exclusive to comicvine, or if i google it will it yield results?

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#210 Posted by JakeN7 (15180 posts) - - Show Bio

@matthewparker: So about what I expected. Just less than the size of a a quarter or other small coin.

Also those pictures are shameless. Just plain shameless. F%ck whoever wrote that drivel.

Anyways, you can't tell me those are dead human parts. Because they aren't. I'm surprised the limbs don't still have webbing!

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#211 Posted by OverLordArhas (7927 posts) - - Show Bio

@matthewparker:

Be warned, the word Geist is Taboo in Off Topic.

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/off-topic-5/public-service-announcement-from-public-enemy-1-1555201/

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#212 Posted by MatthewParker (4562 posts) - - Show Bio

@erik said:

@OverLordArhas said:

@matthewparker: German for Ghost and you are too young too know the dark history of Off Topic. Just to let you know, it includes a group of people, an invasion, and mass slaughter.

I'd say it was a failed invasion then. :p

is this a exclusive to comicvine, or if i google it will it yield results?

its a video game? why did all the people that were "geists" get banned?

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#213 Posted by OverLordArhas (7927 posts) - - Show Bio
@erik said:

@OverLordArhas said:

@matthewparker: German for Ghost and you are too young too know the dark history of Off Topic. Just to let you know, it includes a group of people, an invasion, and mass slaughter.

I'd say it was a failed invasion then. :p

The reason for the fall sadly.

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#214 Posted by MatthewParker (4562 posts) - - Show Bio

@jaken7 said:

@matthewparker: So about what I expected. Just less than the size of a a quarter or other small coin.

Also those pictures are shameless. Just plain shameless. F%ck whoever wrote that drivel.

Anyways, you can't tell me those are dead human parts. Because they aren't. I'm surprised the limbs don't still have webbing!

That is a human being, not fully developed but human all the same.

"The use of the term "fetus" generally implies that a mammalian embryo has developed to the point of being recognizable as belonging to its own species, and this is usually taken to be the 9th week after fertilization. A fetus is also characterized by the presence of all the major body organs, though they will not yet be fully developed and functional, and may not all be situated in their final anatomical location."

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#215 Posted by MatthewParker (4562 posts) - - Show Bio

@matthewparker:

Be warned, the word Geist is Taboo in Off Topic.

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/off-topic-5/public-service-announcement-from-public-enemy-1-1555201/

thanks for the warning.

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#216 Posted by JakeN7 (15180 posts) - - Show Bio

@matthewparker: Fair enough I suppose. I mean, yeah, it's got the right shape and the right number of limbs. I guess if you squint it kinda looks like a human...

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#217 Posted by Erik (32502 posts) - - Show Bio

@jaken7 said:

@matthewparker: So about what I expected. Just less than the size of a a quarter or other small coin.

Also those pictures are shameless. Just plain shameless. F%ck whoever wrote that drivel.

Anyways, you can't tell me those are dead human parts. Because they aren't. I'm surprised the limbs don't still have webbing!

That is a human being, not fully developed but human all the same.

"The use of the term "fetus" generally implies that a mammalian embryo has developed to the point of being recognizable as belonging to its own species, and this is usually taken to be the 9th week after fertilization. A fetus is also characterized by the presence of all the major body organs, though they will not yet be fully developed and functional, and may not all be situated in their final anatomical location."

None of that is a determining factor when considering whether or not something is a baby.

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#218 Posted by MatthewParker (4562 posts) - - Show Bio

@jaken7 said:

@matthewparker: Fair enough I suppose. I mean, yeah, it's got the right shape and the right number of limbs. I guess if you squint it kinda looks like a human...

Thank you.

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#219 Posted by MatthewParker (4562 posts) - - Show Bio

@erik said:

@matthewparker said:

@jaken7 said:

@matthewparker: So about what I expected. Just less than the size of a a quarter or other small coin.

Also those pictures are shameless. Just plain shameless. F%ck whoever wrote that drivel.

Anyways, you can't tell me those are dead human parts. Because they aren't. I'm surprised the limbs don't still have webbing!

That is a human being, not fully developed but human all the same.

"The use of the term "fetus" generally implies that a mammalian embryo has developed to the point of being recognizable as belonging to its own species, and this is usually taken to be the 9th week after fertilization. A fetus is also characterized by the presence of all the major body organs, though they will not yet be fully developed and functional, and may not all be situated in their final anatomical location."

None of that is a determining factor when considering whether or not something is a baby.

maybe not, but for all those saying fetuses are anything other then human beings, they are indeed humans.

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#220 Posted by Erik (32502 posts) - - Show Bio

maybe not, but for all those saying fetuses are anything other then human beings, they are indeed humans.

Literally as much as your skin cells are human.

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#221 Posted by deactivated-097092725 (10555 posts) - - Show Bio

@matthewparker: When/if you get pregnant, don't have an abortion. See? You are pro-choice after-all.

@jaken7 said:

@matthewparker: Fair enough I suppose. I mean, yeah, it's got the right shape and the right number of limbs. I guess if you squint it kinda looks like a human...

Or a parasite.

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#222 Posted by OverLordArhas (7927 posts) - - Show Bio
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#223 Posted by MatthewParker (4562 posts) - - Show Bio

@erik said:

@matthewparker said:

maybe not, but for all those saying fetuses are anything other then human beings, they are indeed humans.

Literally as much as your skin cells are human.

umm last time i checked your skin didnt have its own set of eyes, ear lobes, a brain, a spinal cord, feet, arms, etc. i can understand your need to make fetuses seem in your mind like anything else then what the are, the young of humans. because once you accept the fact that they are humans it becomes very hard to support abortion.

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#224 Edited by MatthewParker (4562 posts) - - Show Bio
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#225 Posted by OverLordArhas (7927 posts) - - Show Bio

@OverLordArhas said:

@matthewparker:

I exist therefore I am.

lol, what?

I thought you or someone will notice the mistake. ;p

Cogito ergo sum = I think Therefore I am. Hehehehehe!

One of the characteristic of living is distinguishing yourself from others. Can the Fetus do that?

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#226 Edited by MatthewParker (4562 posts) - - Show Bio

@matthewparker: When/if you get pregnant, don't have an abortion. See? You are pro-choice after-all.

@jaken7 said:

@matthewparker: Fair enough I suppose. I mean, yeah, it's got the right shape and the right number of limbs. I guess if you squint it kinda looks like a human...

Or a parasite.

im not a female lol.

this is a parasite

No Caption Provided

this is a nine week old fetus

No Caption Provided

how are they the same?

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#227 Posted by InnerVenom123 (29886 posts) - - Show Bio
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#228 Posted by deactivated-097092725 (10555 posts) - - Show Bio

@matthewparker: World English Dictionary

parasite (ˈpærəˌsaɪt)
n
1.

an animal or plant that lives in or on another (the host) from which it obtains nourishment. The host does not benefit from the association and is often harmed by it.

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#229 Posted by Eisenfauste (17366 posts) - - Show Bio

Contra to abortion.

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#230 Posted by SC (18222 posts) - - Show Bio

Does the research also give the reason for the already mothers aborting fetuses? i was under the impression most abortions were performed on young unmarried adults/teens. Also how does this change your earlier post saying that a child would get in the way of their careers since they already have children?

so what your saying is that more kids are having unprotected sex (which leads to more abortions) because they are to scared to talk to an adult about safe sex for fear they will be judged? hmm, i dont know how i feel about that... i know if my kid (hypothetically, i dont have a child) came to me asking how to have safe sex, i would probably tell him he's to young, and or he should wait till marriage, while that sounds like an irresponsible thing to do on my part, i don't believe i would have that problem in the first place, if I've raised him right.

ok, so you support abortion undeniably, unless the baby could survive outside the womb.

http://www.babycenter.com/fetal-development-images-24-weeks

would you support aborting the baby in the video above? its 21 weeks old in the beginning of the video, just shy of being able to survive by itself, and yet it is undeniably a human baby.

ok! it was great talking with you! talk to you later!

From what I have read usually (most cited) the reasons involve inference with work, education and preexisting responsibilities and obligations, financial reasons and concerns about being able to afford and support having a child, and worries/concerns over being a solo parent/difficulties with partner/spouses. I think there might be some miscommunication, I am not sure what you mean when you say how does it change my post? People can and usually have multiple reasons for actions that overlap, so I was saying a child could (as opposed to would) hinder an individuals career (among many other things) - did I word that better?

I would not be surprised if that is your impression, its a very common impression and idea, (and use to be mine as well), especially depending on where you live as abortion in some countries/regions is a very politically charged topic rife with misinformation and propaganda. There is a religious aspect to it as well, but I would say even that conforms to the politics, as many religious people can be pro choice. So a lot of money, effort and political power is often invested in selling the idea that individuals who have abortions are young irresponsible lazy teenagers who are selfish and sexually promiscuous are out getting abortions because they don't want to look fat, have been brainwashed into think thats what they want, they don't want to be inconvenienced and want to hurry up and lose the bump so they can back out there and hump. Except that doesn't conform to reality, all it does is try to reenforce the idea that abortion is wrong and you are a morally bankrupt individual for supporting it/and or affirm established beliefs people have as far as negativity towards abortion and here's the thing? Most people should have a natural dislike of abortion, due to naturalistic mechanisms we adapt. It actually takes a bit of consideration, learning, education and understanding how humans work that allows a person to understand why its important that its a necessary course of action circumstance depending.

Oh the reasons for abstinence only systems also tend to have such high pregnancy rates is pretty complicated and my post will already be long enough heh heh. Its a little bit of what you say, but depends. A lot of people think they can just force and insist others to just believe what they believe but thats not how humans work. Best way to get people to do something and behave a certain way is to increase their understanding but problem with that happens when people believe things without understanding and for other reasons. Especially older people, parents, people in authority because if they don't understand something and are questioned they need to find ways to deflect away from their lack of understanding.

To be honest if your child comes to you to ask about safe sex your actually going to be doing a pretty good job than most parents heh heh - and so just willing to have that conversation with your child is pretty huge and significant - I think you would make a good father.

Yes, I support an individuals right to abortion and autonomy.

I try to avoid terms like undeniably (as opposed to?) and we haven't established what our reflective definitions and criteria for human baby is yet, and with your link you give me specifics and so my answer is it depends. Its not really a matter of whether I support the abortion of that 'baby' more so support the right of the babies mother to terminate the pregnancy if she considers it the right course of action. At the stage your link suggest, she would hopefully also be receiving expert medical advice and with this hypothetical I would have questions and curiosity about why they only just decided to have an abortion as opposed to earlier. So I'd prefer to having great context before I'd take a ethical stance, and regardless my ethical stance is secondary to the rights of the individual housing and keeping the baby in existence. Thats just the nature of hypotheticals and specific examples versus general situations.

Thanks and cheers.

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#231 Posted by SC (18222 posts) - - Show Bio

This was a great post, it deserves to be preserved here.

Here's a couple of facts:

"But when does the magical journey of consciousness begin? Consciousness requires a sophisticated network of highly interconnected components, nerve cells. Its physical substrate, the thalamo-cortical complex that provides consciousness with its highly elaborate content, begins to be in place between the 24th and 28th week of gestation. Roughly two months later synchrony of the electroencephalographic (EEG) rhythm across both cortical hemispheres signals the onset of global neuronal integration. Thus, many of the circuit elements necessary for consciousness are in place by the third trimester. By this time, preterm infants can survive outside the womb under proper medical care."

Quote from Scientific American (Source: http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/when-does-consciousness-arise/)

Roe v. Wade made it explicitly illegal to terminate a pregnancy that late, specifically as late as it can survive outside the womb under proper medical care. This is determined by doctors, people who have gone to medical school for years who know what they're talking about. A fetus doesn't have anything resembling thought, or consciousness and can't even survive as its own being until the 24th to 28th week, wherein it is illegal to have an abortion anyway.

No Caption Provided

As you can see, there are no abortions past 20 weeks, and the vast majority of abortions take place in the first trimester. Laws aren't made by idiots, they know what they're doing. And showing a fetus with a beating heart might be sympathy bait, but a beating heart doesn't make a human or life. Sentience, brainwaves do.

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#232 Posted by SC (18222 posts) - - Show Bio
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#233 Posted by magnablue (10500 posts) - - Show Bio

It would depend on the situation. I wouldn't care whether some random person got an abortion. I probably still wouldn't care that much if it was one of my relatives. But if it was my wife I probably would care.

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#234 Posted by Erik (32502 posts) - - Show Bio

@erik said:

@matthewparker said:

maybe not, but for all those saying fetuses are anything other then human beings, they are indeed humans.

Literally as much as your skin cells are human.

umm last time i checked your skin didnt have its own set of eyes, ear lobes, a brain, a spinal cord, feet, arms, etc. i can understand your need to make fetuses seem in your mind like anything else then what the are, the young of humans. because once you accept the fact that they are humans it becomes very hard to support abortion.

100% irrelevant. At 9 weeks, a fetus doesn't have fully formed organs either. It has the coding necessary for creating an entire human being but so do your skin cells.

I'm not stupid, I know what a fetus can become. But the fact remains that a fetus is not a baby, nor is it a real person. It is only biologically alive and that is where it's claim to life ends. You mentioned heart beats as a sign of being alive, well it doesn't even have a fully formed heart until at least 35 weeks. A fetus isn't conscious at all during the pregnancy. It doesn't even have the framework to support a consciousness (the thalamo-cortical complex) until the 24th to 28th week of gestation. A fetus is not alive. It doesn't even fit any clear definition of the word with the exception of biological. Yes, it is biologically alive but again, so are your skin cells.

I know that a fetus can become a human, maybe. But the more I see threads like this, the more I see that my calling is not cardiac surgery but instead, to start up an abortion clinic. What area do you live in? Maybe I'll start one up down the street from your house.

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#235 Posted by Wolverine008 (51027 posts) - - Show Bio

I personally don't like abortion and would never put myself in a position where a child of mine would get aborted, but I don't think we really have a right to limit someone's want for an abortion.

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#236 Posted by deactived-1352151 (2662 posts) - - Show Bio

I think Abortion is highly immoral.

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#237 Posted by Pizzaman (1377 posts) - - Show Bio

I respect a woman's right to control what goes on with her body but i still believe that abortion should only be allowed after rape or if there is a severe complication during birth that would resort in both the female and the baby's death.

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#238 Posted by Erik (32502 posts) - - Show Bio

I think Abortion is highly immoral.

I think making women into slaves is highly immoral.

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#239 Posted by Noone301994 (22169 posts) - - Show Bio

Rape or incest only.

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#240 Posted by Erik (32502 posts) - - Show Bio

It's sad how quickly the people on this site are willing to strip other human beings of their rights, their autonomy.

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#241 Edited by dshipp17 (5800 posts) - - Show Bio

@matthewparker said:

@jaken7 said:

@matthewparker: So about what I expected. Just less than the size of a a quarter or other small coin.

Also those pictures are shameless. Just plain shameless. F%ck whoever wrote that drivel.

Anyways, you can't tell me those are dead human parts. Because they aren't. I'm surprised the limbs don't still have webbing!

That is a human being, not fully developed but human all the same.

"The use of the term "fetus" generally implies that a mammalian embryo has developed to the point of being recognizable as belonging to its own species, and this is usually taken to be the 9th week after fertilization. A fetus is also characterized by the presence of all the major body organs, though they will not yet be fully developed and functional, and may not all be situated in their final anatomical location."

I'm ok with women having a choice, but, the choice should be used very sparingly and with a great deal of reflection and thought. I disagree with late term abortion. The Christian channel, TBN, did a 700 Club episode about a woman that got more than 6 abortions; I think a situation like that abuses this serious choice and someone like that could be stopped. I can only image how many women in the United States could do multiple abortions like this woman presented on TBN. I see where your point is coming from, though.

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#242 Posted by swordmasterD (2620 posts) - - Show Bio

@erik said:

@epictayman said:

I think Abortion is highly immoral.

I think making women into slaves is highly immoral.

What does that have to do with this?

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#243 Posted by dshipp17 (5800 posts) - - Show Bio

@pizzaman said:

I respect a woman's right to control what goes on with her body but i still believe that abortion should only be allowed after rape or if there is a severe complication during birth that would resort in both the female and the baby's death.

I agree with severe complications, but, otherwise, why not give the child up for adoption? The main character of Law and Order SVU was the child of a rape and she came out ok.

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#244 Posted by deactived-1352151 (2662 posts) - - Show Bio

@erik: Yeah what does that have to do with abortion?

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#245 Posted by Erik (32502 posts) - - Show Bio

@erik: Yeah what does that have to do with abortion?

@erik said:

@epictayman said:

I think Abortion is highly immoral.

I think making women into slaves is highly immoral.

What does that have to do with this?

You're actually confused by this? Well when you force a women to have a child, you have stripped her of her autonomy. Of her right to be in control of her own body. You have by definition, made her into a slave.

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#246 Edited by Pizzaman (1377 posts) - - Show Bio

@erik: Stopping someone from snuffing a potential life out is very different from slavery. the fact that the comparison was even made is embarrassing.

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#247 Edited by Erik (32502 posts) - - Show Bio

@pizzaman said:

@erik: Stopping someone from snuffing a potential life out is very different from slavery. the fact that the comparison was even made is embarrassing.

It's not a life. I already went over all that stupid crap. Outside of some religious garbage, what would qualify an embryo as a life? Do you even know what the definition of life is?

It still doesn't change the fact that you are enslaving women to be your baby factory. I'm sorry but a woman is not just some bag of meat for you to inject your genetic material into.

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#248 Posted by JakeN7 (15180 posts) - - Show Bio

@dshipp17 said:

@matthewparker said:

@jaken7 said:

@matthewparker: So about what I expected. Just less than the size of a a quarter or other small coin.

Also those pictures are shameless. Just plain shameless. F%ck whoever wrote that drivel.

Anyways, you can't tell me those are dead human parts. Because they aren't. I'm surprised the limbs don't still have webbing!

That is a human being, not fully developed but human all the same.

"The use of the term "fetus" generally implies that a mammalian embryo has developed to the point of being recognizable as belonging to its own species, and this is usually taken to be the 9th week after fertilization. A fetus is also characterized by the presence of all the major body organs, though they will not yet be fully developed and functional, and may not all be situated in their final anatomical location."

I'm ok with women having a choice, but, the choice should be used very sparingly and with a great deal of reflection and thought. I disagree with late term abortion. The Christian channel, TBN, did a 700 Club episode about a woman that got more than 6 abortions; I think a situation like that abuses this serious choice and someone like that could be stopped. I can only image how many women in the United States could do multiple abortions like this woman presented on TBN. I see where your point is coming from, though.

Well that's entirely agreeable, and I think about 99% of women do not make the decision lightly, and put a lot of refection and thought into it. The 700 Club thing you're talking about sounds like they found someone from the 1% of women that don't take it seriously, and purported her to be your average woman getting an abortion, and thus, is evil. The 700 Club is Christian, and has their own agenda. Probably best to no to swallow their bull.

@dshipp17 said:

@pizzaman said:

I respect a woman's right to control what goes on with her body but i still believe that abortion should only be allowed after rape or if there is a severe complication during birth that would resort in both the female and the baby's death.

I agree with severe complications, but, otherwise, why not give the child up for adoption? The main character of Law and Order SVU was the child of a rape and she came out ok.

Okay, first off, Olivia wasn't adopted. Her mother did some serious thinking, and in the end, decided to keep her. That's what pro-CHOICE is all about. People have the misconception that we pro-choicers just want every unplanned baby aborted. That isn't the case. We want a woman to have the right to CHOOSE. What she decides in the end isn't our concern, but we want each option to be respected equally. Second, the amount of kids in our foster care system is way out of hand, as are the amount of kids looking to be adopted. Adding more kids in to the mix will have serious repercussions. Not to mention that not every home they end up in is the ideal environment for a child.

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#249 Posted by aquaman01 (1948 posts) - - Show Bio

Very much against it, but it isn't like I am illogical like many people. Nothing is black and white. I don't mind rape victims getting it because they didn't choose to have sex.

However, I don't like abortion at all. It is kinda funny though how many same people who believe sex is natural (as do I of course) are pro choice when getting pregnant is 100% natural too. I mean, that IS the main reason to have sex...

Eh, I just have a high standard when it comes to honor and responsibility. If there is a consequence to your action, be mature and take responsibility. I honestly don't even care if the fetus is alive or not, it isn't a morality issue for me. I just can't respect others if they can't be responsible.

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#250 Edited by MatthewParker (4562 posts) - - Show Bio

@erik: I'm sorry but that women thats a "slave" put her self In that situation (except in select case like rape). All actions have consequences, don't have unprotected sex, and not expect to conceive.