Philosophy... What do You Think?

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mrdecepticonleader

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@spetsnaz_gru said:

@mrdecepticonleader said:

@soduh2 said:

@mrdecepticonleader: Religion and Philosophy aren't mutually exclusive. But I'll discuss that elsewhere.

Okay that was my point.Since philosophy is a broad enough subject to discuss without having to include religion as well.

I've been constantly violating this OP rule, huh? My bad. I'll refrain from discussing religion then.

Oh no its okay since you where technically talking about religion or referring to it as a philosophy.I just dont want it to branch out into a religious discussion if you get what I mean.

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#52  Edited By satyrgod

@Illuminatus: Let the AI evolve. They'll figure out the humans (presumably) are a waste of effort and leave the planet. Or destroy the humans. A win, either way.

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@InnerVenom123 said:

Why?

What?

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#54  Edited By TrueIlluminatus
@Agent9149 said:

@Illuminatus said:

Philosophical question for the lot of y'all: Let us suppose that there is a race of organic beings who create an unprecedented, unimaginably powerful AI (artificial intelligence) platform. This platform is able to implement quantum computing, is capable of self-repair and replication, and shows signs of self-determination, although the preliminary reports of this were attributed to basic errors in the platform, and not actual self-determination. Now, let us suppose that the AI's become entirely self aware, and wage a full-scale war against their creators. Over time, it becomes the most prominent issue in the lives of the organics who created these platforms, and they devote their entire economy and lifestyle to finding a way to defeat their creations once and for all. But, eventually, the platforms create a new form of code; a key to giving them what would be considered self-determination and the beginnings of free thought and expression. You are the mediator in this quandary. You are given the sole responsibility of stopping the newly formed platforms in their tracks, ending the beginnings of their true "lives" once and for all, possibly damning the organics. If you choose to let them fully develop this code and start on a new path in their "lives", you endanger the lives of all the organics. If you choose to not let them develop this, the synthetic platforms will be unable to "evolve", and will eventually be defeated by their creators. There are no caveats you can make.

This is from mass effect.

And I chose to let the quarians die. They made their choice so they must face the consequences.

Mass Effect 3. 
 
I took the choice between Quarians and Geth, changed the scenario to the synthetics being able to develop the code to evolve, instead of how the geth were attempting to use Reaper codes to evolve.  
 
Still, glad someone recognized this from the franchise. 
 
I made the same choice. Also, you have to realize that the Geth proved to be far more powerful as is, thus making them a more valuable military asset. 
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#55  Edited By ARMIV2

@mrdecepticonleader said:

@Tranquil said:

So it encapsules sociology as well as psychology?

Yeah I suppose so.

@ARMIV2 said:

Philosophy is great as a whole, but individual bits from individual minds get you different answers all the time.

Well that is part of the point.It contends with asking the big questions and different philosophers may interpret them differently.So alot of it is on you to decide.

Right.

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@ARMIV2 said:

@mrdecepticonleader said:

@Tranquil said:

So it encapsules sociology as well as psychology?

Yeah I suppose so.

@ARMIV2 said:

Philosophy is great as a whole, but individual bits from individual minds get you different answers all the time.

Well that is part of the point.It contends with asking the big questions and different philosophers may interpret them differently.So alot of it is on you to decide.

Right.

Left.

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ARMIV2

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#57  Edited By ARMIV2

Now @mrdecepticonleader said:

@ARMIV2 said:

@mrdecepticonleader said:

@Tranquil said:

So it encapsules sociology as well as psychology?

Yeah I suppose so.

@ARMIV2 said:

Philosophy is great as a whole, but individual bits from individual minds get you different answers all the time.

Well that is part of the point.It contends with asking the big questions and different philosophers may interpret them differently.So alot of it is on you to decide.

Right.

Left.

Now side to side and clap.

...

Okay, that's it from me on that.

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FatihBATMAN

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#58  Edited By FatihBATMAN

Love it.. Love contemplating over stuff, life, space, faith, whatever....

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#59  Edited By satyrgod

Not to forget ethics

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@FatihBATMAN said:

Love it.. Love contemplating over stuff, life, space, faith, whatever....

Pondering over those big questions.

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#61  Edited By mk111

Eh, its okay.

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mrdecepticonleader

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Bump.

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RobocopSlayerT800

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I think its stupid.

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#64  Edited By satyrgod

@RobocopSlayerT800: You think bumping is stupid?

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@satyrgod said:

@RobocopSlayerT800: You think bumping is stupid?

ah uh, never said that.

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#66  Edited By satyrgod

@RobocopSlayerT800 said: "I think its stupid."

What, precisely?

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@satyrgod said:

@RobocopSlayerT800 said: "I think its stupid."

What, precisely?

Well if its my opinion, then its my opinion. Now I hope you're not gonna try to turn this into a thing.

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#68  Edited By satyrgod

@RobocopSlayerT800:

I'm afraid I don't follow you. What do you think is stupid?

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@satyrgod said:

@RobocopSlayerT800:

I'm afraid I don't follow you. What do you think is stupid?

Unless i'm misunderstanding what the OP is saying, I think making this a religious thread isnt right if thats what Philosophy is all about.

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#70  Edited By pooty

Philosophical question for the lot of y'all: Let us suppose that there is a race of organic beings who create an unprecedented, unimaginably powerful AI (artificial intelligence) platform. This platform is able to implement quantum computing, is capable of self-repair and replication, and shows signs of self-determination, although the preliminary reports of this were attributed to basic errors in the platform, and not actual self-determination. Now, let us suppose that the AI's become entirely self aware, and wage a full-scale war against their creators. Over time, it becomes the most prominent issue in the lives of the organics who created these platforms, and they devote their entire economy and lifestyle to finding a way to defeat their creations once and for all. But, eventually, the platforms create a new form of code; a key to giving them what would be considered self-determination and the beginnings of free thought and expression. You are the mediator in this quandary. You are given the sole responsibility of stopping the newly formed platforms in their tracks, ending the beginnings of their true "lives" once and for all, possibly damning the organics. If you choose to let them fully develop this code and start on a new path in their "lives", you endanger the lives of all the organics. If you choose to not let them develop this, the synthetic platforms will be unable to "evolve", and will eventually be defeated by their creators. There are no caveats you can make.

I have never played Mass Effect. But I destroy the new creations. I also destroy all who have knowledge on how to recreate these beings. If I don't destroy them then I make them slaves.

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@RobocopSlayerT800 said:

@satyrgod said:

@RobocopSlayerT800:

I'm afraid I don't follow you. What do you think is stupid?

Unless i'm misunderstanding what the OP is saying, I think making this a religious thread isnt right if thats what Philosophy is all about.

Um you obviously didn't read the OP right then since I made this thread to discuss philosophy not religion.And philosophy is ultimately different to religion.If you dont even know what it is then dont assume something is stupid.Maybe Google it or read some of the posts on here to get a better understanding of it.

But dont just come here and post inane comments.

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#72  Edited By Pyrogram  Online

@RobocopSlayerT800 said:

@satyrgod said:

@RobocopSlayerT800:

I'm afraid I don't follow you. What do you think is stupid?

Unless i'm misunderstanding what the OP is saying, I think making this a religious thread isnt right if thats what Philosophy is all about.

Go research what philosophy is.

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#73  Edited By Jonny_Anonymous

I find philosophy every interesting, metaphysics to be exact.

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#74  Edited By dtm1980

Philosophy is a wonderful thing. The foundation of life and that by which we thrive. It sets us up for life, we're educated by philosophy, it picks us up when we fall and it helps us to succeed in life. There's a reason why it's one of the oldest practices in the world. It marks the original age of reason and it makes better people of us. It's probably one of few clear things that marks the evolution of human intelligence. And it's great for conversation when you're drunk!

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#75  Edited By ReVamp

Philosophy is fcking amazing.

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#76  Edited By deepdown

As a major course in study, I think it is largely worthless. Do something that gives you a skill, anything in the trades, medical, accounting, etc.

As a hobby, go for it.

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mrdecepticonleader

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Do we have free will???

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@mrdecepticonleader said:

Do we have free will???

Does it matter if we have it? As long as you can smile and be happy then that's enough for me.

Smiles and smiles.

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#79  Edited By TrueIlluminatus
@mrdecepticonleader said:

Do we have free will???

Are you not a self-determining creature capable of something that no living being has ever been capable of in the history of this planet? 
 
You can go outside right now, take off your clothes, defecate in the streets, and flirt with a soccer mom. You can do all of this on a whim and out of your own volition. And while this may break a litany of laws and you will surely face some time incarcerated, your inherent free will as a human being allows you to do whatever you want, whenever you want, can never be robbed of you. 
 
Unless you're dead, of course.
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@slacker the hacker said:

@mrdecepticonleader said:

Do we have free will???

Does it matter if we have it? As long as you can smile and be happy then that's enough for me.

Smiles and smiles.

I was just asking for peoples thoughts on it.

And I agree with you.

@Illuminatus said:

@mrdecepticonleader said:

Do we have free will???

Are you not a self-determining creature capable of something that no living being has ever been capable of in the history of this planet? You can go outside right now, take off your clothes, defecate in the streets, and flirt with a soccer mom. You can do all of this on a whim and out of your own volition. And while this may break a litany of laws and you will surely face some time incarcerated, your inherent free will as a human being allows you to do whatever you want, whenever you want, can never be robbed of you. Unless you're dead, of course.

I agree,I mean it doesn't really matter if "free will" actually exists or if it is just a concept we have created.Since act with enough choice that it makes no difference really.

Just thought I would post it as a topic since I have seen it discussed quite extensively.And wanted to know what people thought of it.

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#81  Edited By satyrgod

@Illuminatus said: "your inherent free will as a human being allows you to do whatever you want, whenever you want, can never be robbed of you. Unless you're dead, of course."

Alzheimer's.

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#82  Edited By spetsnaz_gru

I want some free will to slap my trolling boss!

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#83  Edited By ssejllenrad

@spetsnaz_gru said:

I want some free will to slap my trolling boss!

Dafuq?!?!

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#84  Edited By TrueIlluminatus
@satyrgod said:

@Illuminatus said: "your inherent free will as a human being allows you to do whatever you want, whenever you want, can never be robbed of you. Unless you're dead, of course."

Alzheimer's.

A disease that merely hinders cognitive skills. 
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#85  Edited By spetsnaz_gru

@ssejllenrad said:

@spetsnaz_gru said:

I want some free will to slap my trolling boss!

Dafuq?!?!

Sorry. I didn't realize you were back until you started replying.

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#86  Edited By satyrgod

@Illuminatus said: "@Illuminatus said: "your inherent free will as a human being allows you to do whatever you want, whenever you want, can never be robbed of you. Unless you're dead, of course."

Alzheimer's.

"A disease that merely hinders cognitive skills."

Have you ever seen how this insidious disorder presents?!? It robs its victims of identity, familiarity, and yes, free will. Death, however, is commonly believed to be a continuation, a progression to a different state of being. We don't know what happens post mortem (yet) so we don't have an indication as to whether free will subsides. But there is much in this life that can strip free will from us.

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@ssejllenrad said:

@spetsnaz_gru said:

I want some free will to slap my trolling boss!

Dafuq?!?!

Well look who it isn't..

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#88  Edited By ssejllenrad

@mrdecepticonleader: it isn't your trollish friend who thinks the vine is getting too serious. Nyahahahaha!

Wazzup my friend?

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@ssejllenrad said:

@mrdecepticonleader: it isn't your trollish friend who thinks the vine is getting too serious. Nyahahahaha!

Wazzup my friend?

Ha ha

I am good.How are you?

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#90  Edited By SC  Moderator

Depending on how one defines free will, well I don't believe it actually exists. Will? Sure, free will? No not really, our choices are limited, we are constrained by numerous factors. Free will would basically be a construct of the mind, a mind that can do much but know little, at least as far as when concepts like free will started being discussed by our species. Often when talking about humans and things such as the soul, many can claim that without the soul we are just flesh and meat, chemicals, atoms and what not, yet whenever a person uses those terms exactly, we are just? We are just? I always wonder why they seek to undermine or trivialize other real things in order to attempt to create the need for something supposedly extra special. Free will is a little bit of the same to me, in that its definition can sometimes be described as humans personal choices "simply not determined" by physical forces and yet...

As far as why it matters? Actually it could matter a lot, because increasing peoples understanding here will play a role in how we treat each other, how we perceive, how we understand and how we interact with each other, how we enjoy things. Then again what will be will be, heh heh.

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@SC said:

Depending on how one defines free will, well I don't believe it actually exists. Will? Sure, free will? No not really, our choices are limited, we are constrained by numerous factors. Free will would basically be a construct of the mind, a mind that can do much but know little, at least as far as when concepts like free will started being discussed by our species. Often when talking about humans and things such as the soul, many can claim that without the soul we are just flesh and meat, chemicals, atoms and what not, yet whenever a person uses those terms exactly, we are just? We are just? I always wonder why they seek to undermine or trivialize other real things in order to attempt to create the need for something supposedly extra special. Free will is a little bit of the same to me, in that its definition can sometimes be described as humans personal choices "simply not determined" by physical forces and yet...

As far as why it matters? Actually it could matter a lot, because increasing peoples understanding here will play a role in how we treat each other, how we perceive, how we understand and how we interact with each other, how we enjoy things. Then again what will be will be, heh heh.

When I said it doesn't matter,I meant as in it doesn't really make a difference if we have it or not.I do think discussing such matters is not only interesting but fundamentally important to understanding our very fabric of being.Even if the term free will was invented by us:)

I mean the term free will is a concept created by us.I mean we make decisions and are capable of such.I mean to say that we have free will we would first need to determine what free will actually is.

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#92  Edited By SC  Moderator

@mrdecepticonleader said:

When I said it doesn't matter,I meant as in it doesn't really make a difference if we have it or not.I do think discussing such matters is not only interesting but fundamentally important to understanding our very fabric of being.Even if the term free will was invented by us:)

I mean the term free will is a concept created by us.I mean we make decisions and are capable of such.I mean to say that we have free will we would first need to determine what free will actually is.

Oh heh heh my apologies, I was more directing my comment elsewhere, I think I understand your stance and agree. Its noble aspiration that people simply be happy, but to me such discussions actually do affect peoples happiness, and also wellbeing. I can see a parallel here to how mental health has progressed, as far as our understanding and education of mental health and how to treat and deal with people and problems involving people.

Thats very good point as far as determining and defining free will. Not just that but a lot of the terms and world views opposing or affirming etc concepts of free will and the like have often been conceptualized before important developments as far as human nature, reality and understanding of other such relevant topics. It can make discussion a bit tricky. Lots of associated ideas and terms carry so much baggage.

Still fun and interesting!

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@SC said:

@mrdecepticonleader said:

When I said it doesn't matter,I meant as in it doesn't really make a difference if we have it or not.I do think discussing such matters is not only interesting but fundamentally important to understanding our very fabric of being.Even if the term free will was invented by us:)

I mean the term free will is a concept created by us.I mean we make decisions and are capable of such.I mean to say that we have free will we would first need to determine what free will actually is.

Oh heh heh my apologies, I was more directing my comment elsewhere, I think I understand your stance and agree. Its noble aspiration that people simply be happy, but to me such discussions actually do affect peoples happiness, and also wellbeing. I can see a parallel here to how mental health has progressed, as far as our understanding and education of mental health and how to treat and deal with people and problems involving people.

Thats very good point as far as determining and defining free will. Not just that but a lot of the terms and world views opposing or affirming etc concepts of free will and the like have often been conceptualized before important developments as far as human nature, reality and understanding of other such relevant topics. It can make discussion a bit tricky. Lots of associated ideas and terms carry so much baggage.

Still fun and interesting!

Yeah I agree they can.

They do,I think actually determining what free will means is difficult,or maybe its because there never has been a single definition of it.

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#94  Edited By salamatsabi

@mrdecepticonleader said:

Do we have free will???

Loading Video...
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BUMP

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VercingetorixTheGreat

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I personally believe in Free Will, part of what makes us human.

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#97  Edited By pooty

@SC: @mrdecepticonleader: What actions or in-actions would make one believe that we don't have free will? Lets assume we just have "will". What would be different if we had "free will"? basically, how can you tell the difference between "will" and "free will"?

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@pooty:That's the thing I don't think we can. I mean what is the difference between will and free will? Someone else is controlling us? Then that is not our will.Does the fact that we have our own will mean we have free will? Is it the same thing? I mean the thing about this whole free will concept is that it is difficult to define exactly what people mean and are talking about.

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#99  Edited By pooty

@mrdecepticonleader: I always considered free will to be: when given multiple options you are able to choose which option to take regardless of whether the decision will help or harm you. Free will is not guided by self preservation. It is the opposite of instinct. I will check back to see what others say

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@pooty said:

@mrdecepticonleader: I always considered free will to be: when given multiple options you are able to choose which option to take regardless of whether the decision will help or harm you. Free will is not guided by self preservation. It is the opposite of instinct. I will check back to see what others say

But that is where I question does free will actually exist? Is it an actual function or action etc? Just because we are able to work with and pick from a variety of options does not necessarily mean we have "free will".