My Thoughts On God & Samael

Avatar image for azraelotaku
azraelotaku

1275

Forum Posts

155

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 27

I'm a maltheist, and these are beliefs. This is my many thoughts on God & Samael.

God is evil, and a tyrant. I wouldn't never worship such a being. I would side with Samael. These are my reasons.

1). Samael is the one who planted the tree of good & evil. It was Samael's tree that Adam & Eve ate. He was the one controlling the serpent. Samael is the one that freed humanity from slavery. Samael gifted humanity with knowledge. The Angel Watchers gifted humanity with knowledge. Destroyed them with a flood. God really hates knowledge.

2). Samael is father or Cain, and Eve was consort. Making Samael our (the gentiles) father, and creator. We have his blood flowing in our veins. God didn't create you. You own nothing to God. It was Samael and Eve's union that humanity exist. Why do think God hated Cain so much? Manipulated him into killing Abel.

3). The Gentiles (we) have the Blood of The Fallen Angels in our veins. The Fallen Angels gave humanity knowledge. We won't have video games, and the modern comforts of living.

God wants to either destroy us or enslave. Humanity is damned (fated) to hell because we have the blood of fallen angels.

Technically God did absolutely nothing for us, but pain, suffering, and slavery.

Avatar image for deactivated-64969837cbeff
deactivated-64969837cbeff

7326

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

In case you didn't know, there's a religion thread where you can post your beliefs there.

Avatar image for jacdec
jacdec

5009

Forum Posts

483281

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 9

I'm a maltheist.

Hi Mister Omega, whom I can no longer follow, God knows why!

These are not my beliefs. I am full of contradictory beliefs and therefore have few certainties.

It's a nice story you tell us. I have always been fascinated by the great battles of Heaven, the rebel angels and their legions. It always seemed to me that these episodes could not be unrelated to the universe of H.P. Lovecraft.

If you have good references on the reasons for the revolt of the angels, I am interested.

Avatar image for djmasta
DjMasta

346

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#5  Edited By DjMasta

Where is the name “sameal” in the holy word?

“because you have done this, you are cursed more than all cattle, and more than every beast in the field. On your belly you shall go, and you shall eat dust all the days of your life” Genesis 4:14.

According to the Bible, The serpent is not sameal, it’s an ancient animal from the earth.

Gen 4:15 “ and I will put enmity between you and the women”

The serpent never multiply with Eve.

Avatar image for just_sayin
just_sayin

6128

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

I'm a maltheist, and these are beliefs. This is my many thoughts on God & Samael.

God is evil, and a tyrant. I wouldn't never worship such a being. I would side with Samael. These are my reasons.

1). Samael is the one who planted the tree of good & evil. It was Samael's tree that Adam & Eve ate. He was the one controlling the serpent. Samael is the one that freed humanity from slavery. Samael gifted humanity with knowledge. The Angel Watchers gifted humanity with knowledge. Destroyed them with a flood. God really hates knowledge.

2). Samael is father or Cain, and Eve was consort. Making Samael our (the gentiles) father, and creator. We have his blood flowing in our veins. God didn't create you. You own nothing to God. It was Samael and Eve's union that humanity exist. Why do think God hated Cain so much? Manipulated him into killing Abel.

3). The Gentiles (we) have the Blood of The Fallen Angels in our veins. The Fallen Angels gave humanity knowledge. We won't have video games, and the modern comforts of living.

God wants to either destroy us or enslave. Humanity is damned (fated) to hell because we have the blood of fallen angels.

Technically God did absolutely nothing for us, but pain, suffering, and slavery.

I'm curious, what stories you find authentic about Samael and which you do not. For instance the earliest references to him in the First Book of Enoch he is just one among many angels who rebel against God and isn't even their leader. It won't be for another maybe 200 years when the Second Book of Enoch was written that he is called the prince of demons. There are several non-canonical books written around 100 BCE - 300 CE that mention him. There are several middle age books also that contain stories about Samael often used in Kabala. Which stories do you believe?

Avatar image for djmasta
DjMasta

346

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

In canon the name samael doesn’t even exist so it’s hard to say if he is real or not. But if he were, he is likely one of the “sons of god” that came from space to multiply with women and corrupt humanity.

Genesis 6:1 “It came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,” 6:2 “That the sons of God saw the daughters of men, that they were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves of all whom they chose.

Avatar image for azraelotaku
azraelotaku

1275

Forum Posts

155

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 27

@jacdec: @djmasta: @just_sayin:

Samael is both Prince Of Demons and the Angel Of Death. There are many books that are banned, and alternate texts that aren't included in the Bible. The Bible contradicts because those texts are missing.

Samael & Lilith rule 5th Heaven.

Samael is the polar opposite of Archangel Michael. Samael is the seducer, and destroyer.

Snakes don't talk. Unless Adam & Eve are Slytherin.

Adam is a beta male, while Samael is a sigma male. Eve was seduced by the bad boy, which happens in real life.

@djmasta said:

Where is the name “sameal” in the holy word?

“because you have done this, you are cursed more than all cattle, and more than every beast in the field. On your belly you shall go, and you shall eat dust all the days of your life” Genesis 4:14.

The serpent is not simael, it’s an ancient animal from the earth.

Gen 4:15 “ and I will put enmity between you and the women”

Adam is our progenitor, not the serpent, nor Lucifer.

Cain is the son of Samael. Adam is a cuckold.

Avatar image for just_sayin
just_sayin

6128

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@azraelotaku:

Samael is both Prince Of Demons and the Angel Of Death. There are many books that are banned, and alternate texts that aren't included in the Bible. The Bible contradicts because those texts are missing.

Samael & Lilith rule 5th Heaven.

Samael is the polar opposite of Archangel Michael. Samael is the seducer, and destroyer.

Snakes don't talk. Unless Adam & Eve are Slytherin.

Adam is a beta male, while Samael is a sigma male. Eve was seduced by the bad boy, which happens in real life.

I wouldn't say the books are banned. Jude makes mention of 1 Enoch, so the church had access to these materials. Its just that the church did not consider them to be Scripture. I'm curious if you believe these books and in particular their declaration that Michael will conquer Samael and throw him into the pit for eternity?

Avatar image for azraelotaku
azraelotaku

1275

Forum Posts

155

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 27

@just_sayin:

@azraelotaku:

Samael is both Prince Of Demons and the Angel Of Death. There are many books that are banned, and alternate texts that aren't included in the Bible. The Bible contradicts because those texts are missing.

Samael & Lilith rule 5th Heaven.

Samael is the polar opposite of Archangel Michael. Samael is the seducer, and destroyer.

Snakes don't talk. Unless Adam & Eve are Slytherin.

Adam is a beta male, while Samael is a sigma male. Eve was seduced by the bad boy, which happens in real life.

I wouldn't say the books are banned. Jude makes mention of 1 Enoch, so the church had access to these materials. Its just that the church did not consider them to be Scripture. I'm curious if you believe these books and in particular their declaration that Michael will conquer Samael and throw him into the pit for eternity?

I believe God is evil, and Tyrant. I'm a Maltheist.

Michael is a traitor to his brother Samael.

God is omniscient, Omnipotent, and omnipresent. God fated everything because he is all knowing. He knows past, present, and future. A woman being assaulted in NYC subway is fated by God.

Samael isn't really responsible his actions. Satan did nothing wrong. He was a puppet to God.

Avatar image for dshipp17
dshipp17

7601

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#11  Edited By dshipp17

@just_sayin:

@just_sayin said:

@azraelotaku:

Samael is both Prince Of Demons and the Angel Of Death. There are many books that are banned, and alternate texts that aren't included in the Bible. The Bible contradicts because those texts are missing.

Samael & Lilith rule 5th Heaven.

Samael is the polar opposite of Archangel Michael. Samael is the seducer, and destroyer.

Snakes don't talk. Unless Adam & Eve are Slytherin.

Adam is a beta male, while Samael is a sigma male. Eve was seduced by the bad boy, which happens in real life.

I wouldn't say the books are banned. Jude makes mention of 1 Enoch, so the church had access to these materials. Its just that the church did not consider them to be Scripture. I'm curious if you believe these books and in particular their declaration that Michael will conquer Samael and throw him into the pit for eternity?

I believe God is evil, and Tyrant. I'm a Maltheist.

Michael is a traitor to his brother Samael.

God is omniscient, Omnipotent, and omnipresent. God fated everything because he is all knowing. He knows past, present, and future. A woman being assaulted in NYC subway is fated by God.

Samael isn't really responsible his actions. Satan did nothing wrong. He was a puppet to God.

“God is omniscient, Omnipotent, and omnipresent. God fated everything because he is all knowing. He knows past, present, and future. A woman being assaulted in NYC subway is fated by God.

Samael isn't really responsible his actions. Satan did nothing wrong. He was a puppet to God. ”

You're not making a lot of sense, as your comments are so broad and generalized. Additionally, you're quoting from text that has been banned from the Bible for the reasons explained in the scholarly Christian community. Why would you skip all of the material relied on by say members of a Baptist church and rush to ill-informed information? I'm speaking to you out of concern; I'm God's advocate so I'm here for God's reputation, good Name, and good character. I'm someone who's been blessed by God countless times. I'm grateful for God's compassion. God just blessed me all last week, after He blessed me with the ability to articulate a legal paper over topics that I'd previously struggled to put together over a very long period of time; I'm grateful that the defenses even existed thanks to God.

Satan has free will so he chose evil and is operating in the circumstances still available for he; he's destined to lose, of course. But, speak to me, as someone who knows God's good by knowledge and experience; it's about my humility. I need to develop a miracle that God sent for me and I believe that God will come through for me again. God raised me from when I was most vulnerable and helpless to when I was confused and naive to my current place. There is a way for God to send His blessing to you, also, but it requires accepting the Free Gift of Eternal Salvation through trust in the work and Blood of Jesus Christ by trusting in the Gospel of Jesus Christ; just confess, which is your apology, state your trust in the Gospel of Jesus Christ, where you can say this is a prayer directed towards Jesus, start reading the Gospel of John, and say repentant prayers directed towards Jesus, as an initial matter. But, leading up to last week, I was so angry about yet more injustice directed at me by humans, under the influence of Satan and/or his demons.

Avatar image for sundown89
Sundown89

1950

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

As an atheist I'm happy to have no horse in this race, I'm content in letting the religious be religious, I just wish they would feel the same about my lack of religion. There is one thing in the posts I would like to address;

@dshipp17: God just blessed me all last week, after He blessed me with the ability to articulate a legal paper over topics that I'd previously struggled to put together over a very long period of time; I'm grateful that the defences even existed thanks to God.

People giving credit to God for all the times they do hard work and achieve something breaks my heart. I've only experienced it once while working, and the client was a church. I put two years of work into a project (ecology and soft landscaping) and at the end they thanked God. When I told them I was an atheist and that I did the work, working nights and weekends at some points, they actually sent a complaint to the Project Manager about how I was a prideful corrupter. It just grinds my goat when religous people give deities credit for the good things in their lives.

Avatar image for dshipp17
dshipp17

7601

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#13  Edited By dshipp17
@sundown89 said:

As an atheist I'm happy to have no horse in this race, I'm content in letting the religious be religious, I just wish they would feel the same about my lack of religion. There is one thing in the posts I would like to address;

@dshipp17: God just blessed me all last week, after He blessed me with the ability to articulate a legal paper over topics that I'd previously struggled to put together over a very long period of time; I'm grateful that the defences even existed thanks to God.

People giving credit to God for all the times they do hard work and achieve something breaks my heart. I've only experienced it once while working, and the client was a church. I put two years of work into a project (ecology and soft landscaping) and at the end they thanked God. When I told them I was an atheist and that I did the work, working nights and weekends at some points, they actually sent a complaint to the Project Manager about how I was a prideful corrupter. It just grinds my goat when religous people give deities credit for the good things in their lives.

“People giving credit to God for all the times they do hard work and achieve something breaks my heart.”

That's all due to your lack of understanding and lack of experience (e.g. I couldn't advise someone who likes caviar that it's too expensive because that person's expriences due to their wealth places them some place that's currently off limits for me and has been throughout this life). That was just one example in a paragraph with just a few examples; I prayed prayers too; I'm in confirmation and investigation mode and God has given me confirmation and then some, since I've needed it. I've done lots of hard work in a period of time where my seriousness in God wasn't high and He wasn't at the center of my life but still apart of my thoughts because He's apart of me thanks to the work and Blood of Jesus. While in that state, I felt directionless while just spinning my wheels and wasting time and effort; but, placing God at the center of my life gave me purpose. I give God credit, because credit is due, as I'm experiencing the promises from the New Testament. First, I have to put in the effort and God navigates my ship from there; I pray for financial help too, but, I don't put in any effort there; and, while largely nothing is happening, about three years ago I received a random class action payment; days later it came in very handy because my computer broke down in a very weird way. Without it, it's hard to say how long I would have been offline until 2021. I certainly give credit to God for the timing in that, as credit is due; there's been many occasions like that for me. But, about financial help, God has delivered, I just have to go and get things set up my getting in a state of organization that I haven't been in in a long while; just over the past five hours, I went looking for something hoping it was there, and I got it in more ways than I was looking, expecting, and needing, all thanks to God.

But, curious, why shouldn't we be giving God the credit, when, clearly, He wouldn't be operating for you, because of your choices to just reject Him despite what evidence we have and that He can present? But, knowing how much information and evidence is available, there's now way you could know this topic exhaustively.

“I've only experienced it once while working, and the client was a church. I put two years of work into a project (ecology and soft landscaping) and at the end they thanked God.”

Lack of knowledge and experience on your part, where your kind of pretense is stopping you from exploring what we claim to know and experience; whoever has chosen to take that step has been rewarded by Jesus. The Bible says/teaches that God can prepare a table for us, even in the presence of our enemies. Contrary to what the poster says, if ever God does interfere in the inner workings of things, it's only for our own good, is the message that you're not able to grasp here; God also says vengeance is His, so it can be kind of a mixed message and more universal that it actually is; but, this is only happening because we placed our trust, believe, and faith in the Gospel of Jesus Christ, first, as promised from the New Testament; it's about the day and time that we currently live within.

“When I told them I was an atheist and that I did the work, working nights and weekends at some points, they actually sent a complaint to the Project Manager about how I was a prideful corrupter.”

I don't know; I'd elect to say/ask, our you providing the whole story and context? Sure, you can provide the work and effort, but, for them, God worked out the situation for them.

“It just grinds my goat when religous people give deities credit for the good things in their lives.”

You're sounding kind of silly here, because you're suggesting that you encounter people from many different religions as much as you encounter Christians, in the US, when that just couldn't be the case. It's more to do with the context of the good things in our lives, as someone who's rich seemingly have many good things in their lives, also; in the case of a rich Christian, the good news would more be in the shack up, because God's chastening might be in order. You're suggesting that suddenly, we're acting on blind faith without confirmation, once we become Christian, when such isn't common as a feature of human nature; as humans, we need and have some sort of confirmation, especially when the numbers are so big in relation to the numbers of us Christians. Of course, it bothers we when you make the suggestion that I've been acting on mere blind faith all of my life, as nothing else is there to act upon, where your group is such a small percentage of the human population.

Avatar image for sundown89
Sundown89

1950

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@dshipp17: I don’t live in the US. I’ll address the other things once I’ve finished work.

Avatar image for sundown89
Sundown89

1950

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Okay so I've finished work for the day, and can now give this the care and attention it deserves. Apologies for any spelling and grammar issues, English is my second language and I have mild dyslexia.

@dshipp17: That's all due to your lack of understanding and lack of experience also, lack of knowledge and experience on your part, where your kind of pretence is stopping you from exploring what we claim to know and experience

Just because I'm an atheist now doesn't mean I was never a theist. I understand enough about it when I was younger when praying for a Jurassic Park T-Rex toy, and then getting it for working hard at school. At the time I thought it was God's will. I know this is a far lower stakes example then what your example is, and it is a little silly but then I was seven at the time. Looking at it logically as an adult, I know my parents bought it as a reward for good school work. At the time I never said thank you to my parents, I thanked God, I feel absolutely s**t that I didn't think about my mum and dad now.

@dshipp17: But, curious, why shouldn't we be giving God the credit, when, clearly, He wouldn't be operating for you, because of your choices to just reject Him despite what evidence we have and that He can present? But, knowing how much information and evidence is available, there's now way you could know this topic exhaustively.

If you want to give God some credit that's fine, that's your faith I guess. But I have people in my life (both Christian and Hindu) who give their deities credit for when things go right in their life and only them. One person I work with got a promotion last year because he worked hard for five years. He didn't recognise his own hard work and praised God solely for his promotion, even though he got it through his own merits. Interestingly he takes full responsibility for everything that goes wrong in his life, stating that he deserves whatever happens, why he can't take responsibility for the good things in his life actually breaks my heart because he's an awesome dude, and I've just realised I don't tell him that enough.

@dshipp17: He wouldn't be operating for you, because of your choices to just reject Him

So my beliefs are that I have not seen enough evidence to prove God (or any other deity) is real. I also haven't seen enough to prove God is not real. If God is truly omniscient it would know how to convince me without a shadow of the doubt that its real. At that point I would have to believe in it, although worshipping it would be another story.

@dshipp17: I don't know; I'd elect to say/ask, are you providing the whole story and context?

Firstly I would like to commend you for having sceptical thinking and not taking anything at face value. This is how everyone should view the world, looking at how reliable the source is, what their expertise is and how likely what they are claiming is.

So more to this story, the church in question was in India, while I worked on it for two years I wasn't in India for that entire period I was just the lead ecologist consulting through my 'boots on the ground', a local ecologist who was (still can't say for sure times change) Hindu. On completion I went out to help finalise the thing and explain the soft landscaping (tree planting) scheme for the church yard. On leaving the priest praised God for everything going (relatively) to plan and for making the church's dream come true. I told him that as an atheist, that made me uncomfortable and that most of the local crew were Hindu, and that I'd rather he thanked them for putting in the hard work if possible. He suddenly got quite defensive and told me us to leave, stating that we were outsaying our welcome. The email came in on the flight out of Mumbai, he stated that I had disrespected him and God.

@dshipp17: You're sounding kind of silly here, because you're suggesting that you encounter people from many different religions as much as you encounter Christians, in the US, when that just couldn't be the case.

As I said I'm not from the USA. I also have had the honour of working across the world on all six continents so I've met a lot of people, some from non Abrahamic faiths such as Hinduism, Sikhism, Taoism and even a guy who claimed to be an Odinist. It's a little insulting for you to assume where I come from, fortunately I don't really mind as you really weren't to know. I'm more annoyed at this...

@dshipp17: You're suggesting that suddenly, we're acting on blind faith without confirmation, once we become Christian, when such isn't common as a feature of human nature; as humans, we need and have some sort of confirmation, especially when the numbers are so big in relation to the numbers of us Christians. Of course, it bothers we when you make the suggestion that I've been acting on mere blind faith all of my life,

So I never mentioned blind faith, or people taking things on blind faith. I can imagine multiple reasons someone may be a theist, I can also imagine multiple reasons why someone wouldn't be one. By stating the quote immediately above you are putting words I haven't said in my mouth which at best is ignorant (which I'm leaning to here), and at worst dishonest. So my question to you is the following;

Do you feel so insecure about your points that you try to alternate mine in order for you to get an edge on the argument?

On that last note, I hope you have a good day doing whatever it is you do.

Avatar image for chainchan
ChainChan

2328

Forum Posts

191

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

i’m convinced OP copy and pastes his threads.

theres not even a set argument over here lol, and most of this can just be seen as some kabbalahist view of the demiurge.

Avatar image for dshipp17
dshipp17

7601

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

Okay so I've finished work for the day, and can now give this the care and attention it deserves. Apologies for any spelling and grammar issues, English is my second language and I have mild dyslexia.

@dshipp17: That's all due to your lack of understanding and lack of experience also, lack of knowledge and experience on your part, where your kind of pretence is stopping you from exploring what we claim to know and experience

Just because I'm an atheist now doesn't mean I was never a theist. I understand enough about it when I was younger when praying for a Jurassic Park T-Rex toy, and then getting it for working hard at school. At the time I thought it was God's will. I know this is a far lower stakes example then what your example is, and it is a little silly but then I was seven at the time. Looking at it logically as an adult, I know my parents bought it as a reward for good school work. At the time I never said thank you to my parents, I thanked God, I feel absolutely s**t that I didn't think about my mum and dad now.

@dshipp17: But, curious, why shouldn't we be giving God the credit, when, clearly, He wouldn't be operating for you, because of your choices to just reject Him despite what evidence we have and that He can present? But, knowing how much information and evidence is available, there's now way you could know this topic exhaustively.

If you want to give God some credit that's fine, that's your faith I guess. But I have people in my life (both Christian and Hindu) who give their deities credit for when things go right in their life and only them. One person I work with got a promotion last year because he worked hard for five years. He didn't recognise his own hard work and praised God solely for his promotion, even though he got it through his own merits. Interestingly he takes full responsibility for everything that goes wrong in his life, stating that he deserves whatever happens, why he can't take responsibility for the good things in his life actually breaks my heart because he's an awesome dude, and I've just realised I don't tell him that enough.

@dshipp17: He wouldn't be operating for you, because of your choices to just reject Him

So my beliefs are that I have not seen enough evidence to prove God (or any other deity) is real. I also haven't seen enough to prove God is not real. If God is truly omniscient it would know how to convince me without a shadow of the doubt that its real. At that point I would have to believe in it, although worshipping it would be another story.

@dshipp17: I don't know; I'd elect to say/ask, are you providing the whole story and context?

Firstly I would like to commend you for having sceptical thinking and not taking anything at face value. This is how everyone should view the world, looking at how reliable the source is, what their expertise is and how likely what they are claiming is.

So more to this story, the church in question was in India, while I worked on it for two years I wasn't in India for that entire period I was just the lead ecologist consulting through my 'boots on the ground', a local ecologist who was (still can't say for sure times change) Hindu. On completion I went out to help finalise the thing and explain the soft landscaping (tree planting) scheme for the church yard. On leaving the priest praised God for everything going (relatively) to plan and for making the church's dream come true. I told him that as an atheist, that made me uncomfortable and that most of the local crew were Hindu, and that I'd rather he thanked them for putting in the hard work if possible. He suddenly got quite defensive and told me us to leave, stating that we were outsaying our welcome. The email came in on the flight out of Mumbai, he stated that I had disrespected him and God.

@dshipp17: You're sounding kind of silly here, because you're suggesting that you encounter people from many different religions as much as you encounter Christians, in the US, when that just couldn't be the case.

As I said I'm not from the USA. I also have had the honour of working across the world on all six continents so I've met a lot of people, some from non Abrahamic faiths such as Hinduism, Sikhism, Taoism and even a guy who claimed to be an Odinist. It's a little insulting for you to assume where I come from, fortunately I don't really mind as you really weren't to know. I'm more annoyed at this...

@dshipp17: You're suggesting that suddenly, we're acting on blind faith without confirmation, once we become Christian, when such isn't common as a feature of human nature; as humans, we need and have some sort of confirmation, especially when the numbers are so big in relation to the numbers of us Christians. Of course, it bothers we when you make the suggestion that I've been acting on mere blind faith all of my life,

So I never mentioned blind faith, or people taking things on blind faith. I can imagine multiple reasons someone may be a theist, I can also imagine multiple reasons why someone wouldn't be one. By stating the quote immediately above you are putting words I haven't said in my mouth which at best is ignorant (which I'm leaning to here), and at worst dishonest. So my question to you is the following;

Do you feel so insecure about your points that you try to alternate mine in order for you to get an edge on the argument?

On that last note, I hope you have a good day doing whatever it is you do.

“Just because I'm an atheist now doesn't mean I was never a theist. I understand enough about it when I was younger when praying for a Jurassic Park T-Rex toy, and then getting it for working hard at school. At the time I thought it was God's will. I know this is a far lower stakes example then what your example is, and it is a little silly but then I was seven at the time. Looking at it logically as an adult, I know my parents bought it as a reward for good school work. At the time I never said thank you to my parents, I thanked God, I feel absolutely s**t that I didn't think about my mum and dad now.”

Yes, that's significantly different from a victorious class action coming in for me and a few days before my computer went down. But, here, you're saying more to me than you think. First, what to you mean by theist? That could be anything. I would tend to believe or assume that you're talking about something in common, but, lets see what you say first. Thus, with that said, in the sense that I'm talking, you lack experience and understanding.

“If you want to give God some credit that's fine, that's your faith I guess. But I have people in my life (both Christian and Hindu) who give their deities credit for when things go right in their life and only them.”

In terms of a Christian, sure, as they are manifest promises from the New Testament. The test is that the source is actually God. God had already established His standard prior to the arrival of Jesus and had already laid down the Law that no false or random individual was going to be able to invoke His name truly without Him being the source of their miracles. And in Mark, the doubters did test Jesus at which point He introduced blaspheming the Holy Spirit.

“One person I work with got a promotion last year because he worked hard for five years. He didn't recognise his own hard work and praised God solely for his promotion, even though he got it through his own merits.”

Sure. This is also where my knowledge and experience comes in; a promotion is linked to an employment decision that can be just about the most corrupt personnel action of all time; it's debatable and a close call whether it could be out the termination. Expecting a promotion and having a hard working background is just going to go hand and hand. The denial of a promotion sparks about as many employment discrimination complaints or employment actions as the termination and non-selection. This would definitely be a case where God prepared a table for this individual in the presence of the enemy. I can see lots of inexperience here because you're working; you probably hold your boss/supervisor and managers on a very high pedestal as the moral pillars of society; I once did that too until I learned much better, starting on October 10, 2003, although it had to still develop and ferment for me by about 2012.

Most likely, in the minds of the people behind it there was certainly some type of an angle behind it, but God prepared a table for him (e.g. those people have done and would do anything and everything in the name of business; business is their god; compare one of them to someone doing something in the name of jihad and you'll see little difference, no difference, or they got the jihadist beat; they have absolutely no moral boundaries, if the business might just loss some profit; it's that psychological push to be seen as the best at something). You're talking to someone who could see them as approaching the most despicable people humanity has to offer, but are still getting the credit for being morally upright (e.g. perhaps inadvertently, but lots of YouTube clips tend to portray the Antichrist as a CEO, middle manager, supervisor, lawyer, or judge). I had to learn through experience that the so called moral pillars of society isn't deserving of what we automatically give them credit for at say that moment we're just graduating from college/university (e.g. it gets formed in elementary school and just grows over time, as you're in school). Just name one and I'll probably have an experience to share.

“Interestingly he takes full responsibility for everything that goes wrong in his life, stating that he deserves whatever happens, why he can't take responsibility for the good things in his life actually breaks my heart because he's an awesome dude, and I've just realised I don't tell him that enough.”

It's that action equal consequences. God doesn't delight in punishing the wicked. Being chastened is a good thing, as it's confirmation that you're apart of God's flock. A light that was smooth sailing is how Satan and his demons can keep you sleep until it's everlastingly too late, in the event that you have reason to believe that you've never accepted Jesus as your Lord and Savior. But, God blesses, also; we just need something to stand in as confirmation that God is the source of that good.

“So my beliefs are that I have not seen enough evidence to prove God (or any other deity) is real.”

The New Testament implies that you're unlikely to see this evidence until after you've accepted the Free Gift of Eternal Salvation. It requires desire and trust, first and foremost; you have to take the initiative with either desire and trust the same way that I have to take some initiative to put in the work sometimes and then benefit from an answered prayer; see, you're presuming that I took no initiative at the same time as you've clearly taken no initiative.

“I also haven't seen enough to prove God is not real.”

This has become a real slogan; it's becoming silly. Our standard is an objective standard; that standard is proof enough for most people; when you do this, you're wasting your own time, considering what I at stake, once you pass away. All of this would just drop, if you only experienced about 3 minutes in a state of eternal hopelessness knowing that there will never be a way out. I'm gladly trying to come to your rescue so that you don't have to experience that; I'm empathetic in a special way; because of that, I've now learned eternal gratitude. I just imagine an reflect on a poor soul facing that initial terror and just longing for one more moment to right a wrong and change it; and, with that, I just have to have compassion and gratitude that for what Jesus has done; where I can have that terror but run over to Jesus for a comforting hug and reassurance that I'm safe; just start to image; you're really rolling the dice without Jesus.

“If God is truly omniscient it would know how to convince me without a shadow of the doubt that its real.”

And you do know, you're just putting up this pretense because you don't want to sacrifice some or all of that prestige; it would be career suicide; it would ruin all of your future prospects; again, you're wasting precious time; God had to destroy all of that for me, but He could work with me, because I've always been Christian or one starting at a very young age so that by age 5, I knew. Initially, it wasn't good, but, where time has passed, I can reflect back and just thank God for freeing me from that psychological barrier that was starting to form.

“Firstly I would like to commend you for having sceptical thinking and not taking anything at face value. This is how everyone should view the world, looking at how reliable the source is, what their expertise is and how likely what they are claiming is.”

Well, my career background is that of a scientist. But, here, you're implying that you have an impulsive belief that being Christian or Bible believer releases us from this somehow (e.g. that's what concerns me); but, it's why we can have faith in the Bible, wherever we need confirmation; Christian apologetics in there.

“So more to this story, the church in question was in India, while I worked on it for two years I wasn't in India for that entire period I was just the lead ecologist consulting through my 'boots on the ground', a local ecologist who was (still can't say for sure times change) Hindu.”

Here, you're mixing and matching, where it's inappropriate and frankly disrespectful; church is a Christian term; you wouldn't call a temple, mosque, or synagogue a church, right (e.g. or they wouldn't want that, right)?

“On completion I went out to help finalise the thing and explain the soft landscaping (tree planting) scheme for the church yard. On leaving the priest praised God for everything going (relatively) to plan and for making the church's dream come true.”

Do you even understand what you're talking about here? You just mentioned Hindu.

“I told him that as an atheist, that made me uncomfortable and that most of the local crew were Hindu, and that I'd rather he thanked them for putting in the hard work if possible. He suddenly got quite defensive and told me us to leave, stating that we were outsaying our welcome. The email came in on the flight out of Mumbai, he stated that I had disrespected him and God.”

Surely you had to know that it would; you're in India now. When you just say God, that could mean Christian or Jew, and that you're mixing and matching a church with a synagogue or in the name of diluting and disrespecting Christianity. This is more speaking for a someone who might have been a conservative Jew and you're calling his synagogue a church; you have to leave this pretense and act behind; you've somehow convinced yourself that you're actually on an intellectual high group or you just need to get serious and walk back into reality sometimes.

“As I said I'm not from the USA. I also have had the honour of working across the world on all six continents so I've met a lot of people, some from non Abrahamic faiths such as Hinduism, Sikhism, Taoism and even a guy who claimed to be an Odinist. It's a little insulting for you to assume where I come from, fortunately I don't really mind as you really weren't to know. I'm more annoyed at this...”

Well, see my first question with respect to this and your background with theism that you were claiming. It's a matter of also s[peaking to an audience likely to have been Christian, where it's intending to dilute the Christian experience, which is then intending to be insulting. I'm certainly not going to through Christianity under the bus and apologized for being grateful to Jesus keeping His promises from the New Testament under the same breath as you're implying that we have no evidence to fall back on, when it's just merely your lack of experience and knowledge by comparison. Being familiar with non-Abrahamic faiths means little to nothing to the Christian experience, as the Bible covers that sort of stuff; all it does is just create chaos and confusion in your mind, especially if you're young ion Christianity or not a Christian at all; you can't just declare yourself as having been Christian; it's that human nature of needing some type of confirmation; Christianity starts with both desire and trust; thus, while someone may have claimed to be Christian, if that desire and trust was never there, then the spark of real Christianity was just never there.

“So I never mentioned blind faith, or people taking things on blind faith.”

No need, as it's implied; that's what an implication means. You automatically jumped to a conclusion about me and then extended that over to me but then got the rebuff that you couldn't have been expecting from me.

“I can imagine multiple reasons someone may be a theist, I can also imagine multiple reasons why someone wouldn't be one.”

Theist is way too broad a term; it's a Christian; the New Testament then explains the need for the separation. You couldn't imagine my experience as a true Christian, in all sincere honesty.

“Do you feel so insecure about your points that you try to alternate mine in order for you to get an edge on the argument?”

Well, I'm not motivated by insecurity. I'm quite firm and secure in the promises from the New Testament, which is why I view it as having some of the confirmation that I need as part of human nature.

Avatar image for sundown89
Sundown89

1950

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@dshipp17: Okay so I have some time to answer some of this. Anything not covered I can answer (or attempt to) when I get home. Apologies for any spelling issues I’m on the train typing on a phone in my second language.

The church was a Christian church so I don’t see why it would be inappropriate to call it that. My agent (the local ecologist) was Hindu, hence why I point that out. The priest was a British expat and not Indian just for some more context. I suspect I explained it badly, my apologies as I said before English is a second language to me.

My commendation on your skeptics thinking was just that, a commendation. The fact you used it to put more words in my mouth was a little sad, it was meant as a compliment.

The fact you’d wish eternal hopelessness on someone for even a second is a little disheartening. No one deserves that, not even the worst person in the world.

You’ve called me inexperienced because I work? Well how am I meant to pay rent, food, electrics etc. if I don’t work. Trust me I have seen that overall the company I work for cares only for profit, luckily I have a job with them that allows me to try and do some good in the world do perhaps I’m using them as much as they are me.

I’m ex PKN

Lastly you made this good point; you’re wasting precious time

I’m going to make it my goal to do more cool stuff that I enjoy so thanks. After I get back and explain the rest I’ll probably not respond, life’s too short (at least the one life I get) to waste arguing over something that is inherently harmless.

Have a good day man, I know I’ll try to.

Avatar image for dshipp17
dshipp17

7601

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#19  Edited By dshipp17
@sundown89 said:

@dshipp17: Okay so I have some time to answer some of this. Anything not covered I can answer (or attempt to) when I get home. Apologies for any spelling issues I’m on the train typing on a phone in my second language.

The church was a Christian church so I don’t see why it would be inappropriate to call it that. My agent (the local ecologist) was Hindu, hence why I point that out. The priest was a British expat and not Indian just for some more context. I suspect I explained it badly, my apologies as I said before English is a second language to me.

My commendation on your skeptics thinking was just that, a commendation. The fact you used it to put more words in my mouth was a little sad, it was meant as a compliment.

The fact you’d wish eternal hopelessness on someone for even a second is a little disheartening. No one deserves that, not even the worst person in the world.

You’ve called me inexperienced because I work? Well how am I meant to pay rent, food, electrics etc. if I don’t work. Trust me I have seen that overall the company I work for cares only for profit, luckily I have a job with them that allows me to try and do some good in the world do perhaps I’m using them as much as they are me.

I’m ex PKN

Lastly you made this good point; you’re wasting precious time

I’m going to make it my goal to do more cool stuff that I enjoy so thanks. After I get back and explain the rest I’ll probably not respond, life’s too short (at least the one life I get) to waste arguing over something that is inherently harmless.

Have a good day man, I know I’ll try to.

“The church was a Christian church so I don’t see why it would be inappropriate to call it that.”

Because you used the word, theist, along with a grouping of religions, the context was set as not mixing things together; then, it should be kind of clear from the text that you're referencing as to what I was discussing. I'm not here to speculate into what you're meaning, you'll have to be specific is really the point that you should have gotten from the text; I'd allow myself to presume onto you; that was also the context. So, sure, read more directly and carefully and then respond. Otherwise, I have no idea what you're talking about here from the text material that I wrote except you're not realizing how much you generalized things.

“My commendation on your skeptics thinking was just that, a commendation. The fact you used it to put more words in my mouth was a little sad, it was meant as a compliment.”

Follow your own advise and just pay closer attention to the text that you're referencing and you might gain clarity before you write. I'm not putting words into your mouth; previously, you were just trying to get me for not speculating about what you meant; answer, add specificity. Another case where someone needs to learn, grow, and participate into the discussion.

“The fact you’d wish eternal hopelessness on someone for even a second is a little disheartening. No one deserves that, not even the worst person in the world.”

Nowhere am I seen wishing this on you; I was giving you a helpful warning that you could have then taken to heart; the text that you're referencing couldn't be anymore clear, yet you come away not able or willing to understand (e.g. I was literally bleeding my heart out in pity for people in those circumstances and you come away with my wishing that on someone; again, follow your advise and read the text closer). I see it was something akin to warning you that Superman doesn't exist in real life so you're not going to fly, if you keep advancing towards the edge of a cliff, while believing your at the intellectual high ground over me.

“You’ve called me inexperienced because I work?”

No, it's explained in the text that you're supposed to be quoting; are you actually reading anything or are you relying on what someone is describing for you? If the latter than it's hard to communicate with you; if the former than, I just don't know what to tell you so I'll speak to the reader, in that case. Sounds more and more like you're believing something someone else is telling you; you're that divisive and combative towards Christianity that you can't participate in the discussion? Rule number discussion equals desire.

“luckily I have a job with them that allows me to try and do some good in the world do perhaps I’m using them as much as they are me.”

How are you doing good for the world by being employed so that you can pay your rent and bills? Sounds like you may not realize how self centered that sounds, especially where spreading the Gospel is only meant to save from a horrible end result, as the case otherwise.

“Lastly you made this good point; you’re wasting precious time”

I didn't say anywhere that I was wasting time even if I just have to give word to the reader; perhaps you should read the text on your own and then respond.

“life’s too short (at least the one life I get) to waste arguing over something that is inherently harmless.”

Very unfortunate for you that you see it this way. However, I can't allow misinformation to circulate about Christianity; that's my task in participating in the Great Commission that I'm assigned.

Loading Video...

Avatar image for sundown89
Sundown89

1950

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@dshipp17: If you think I’m that combative and divisive that I can’t be allowed in the discussion then I won’t waste your time any further.

I sincerely hope you have a good day.

FYI that wasting your time was addressed to me not you.

Avatar image for dshipp17
dshipp17

7601

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#21  Edited By dshipp17
@sundown89 said:

@dshipp17: If you think I’m that combative and divisive that I can’t be allowed in the discussion then I won’t waste your time any further.

I sincerely hope you have a good day.

FYI that wasting your time was addressed to me not you.

“If you think I’m that combative and divisive that I can’t be allowed in the discussion then I won’t waste your time any further.”

Just participate in the discussion, grow, and learn. Quote the text, as you said you would do, so we'll then know that you know what you're responding to; I didn't say anything about your being combative or divisive in the context of the discussion; it's just tough to tell whether you're actually reading and then responding to what you're reading, in the context of this specific discussion.

Avatar image for firestarlord73194
FireStarLord73194

8393

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Read the Bible

Avatar image for azraelotaku
azraelotaku

1275

Forum Posts

155

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 27

Avatar image for yejj
yejj

3817

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Avatar image for djmasta
DjMasta

346

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Avatar image for firestarlord73194
FireStarLord73194

8393

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@azraelotaku: that’s not in the Bible. Please show the exact quoted verse that you’re referring to