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Posted by modernww2fare (7047 posts) 3 years, 3 days ago

Poll: Is white privilege real? (529 votes)

Yes 56%
No 43%

Is white privilege real in certain countries?

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#351 Edited by just_sayin (3412 posts) - - Show Bio

@poeticwarrior: I mention the kid from Appalachia so much because that kid was me.

Affirmative Action laws have been around for 50 or so years now. A generation has grown up under them. Yes, they have increased the number of minority kids that have gotten into colleges. But they have done so by hindering poor white kids pursuing an education. And I take it from your previous comment that you would agree that they have not yet solved the problem.

There are alternatives to affirmative action laws. California, Texas and Florida have enacted laws that guarantee a place in a state school if the student is in the top 10- 20% of their high school class. In its first year of enactment, the University of Texas reported that there was actually an increase in minority enrollment and that the number of high schools represented at the university increased by around 500 schools. The University of Chicago has shown that giving greater weight to socioeconomic status rather than using affirmative action actually produces a more diverse student body. Texas has a private scholarship program for poor students that allows them to go to college that they otherwise may not be able to afford. UNC offers a work study program for poor kids that will let them graduate debt free. While these approaches will not ensure every minority a college education they do appear to be working better than the affirmative action method that has been in place for 50 years.

I work in DC, so I know something about bad schools. Giving kids in failing and weaker schools a voucher so they can attend private schools makes sense. There is such a waiting list to get into these programs in DC that they hold lotteries each year. You would think by their reaction that they won the lottery when their child is selected. And in a sense, I guess they have. Public schools in DC spend about $20,000 per student now but have such a horrible reputation that in this liberal/socialist mecca only surpassed by maybe San Francisco or Moscow, people are actually pro school choice by an overwhelming margin.

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#352 Posted by PHoeULniKx (73 posts) - - Show Bio


T

@poeticwarrior: I mention the kid from Appalachia so much because that kid was me.

Affirmative Action laws have been around for 50 or so years now. A generation has grown up under them. Yes, they have increased the number of minority kids that have gotten into colleges. But they have done so by hindering poor white kids pursuing an education.

This is untrue. According to time magazine, the largest beneficiaries of Affirmative Action laws are white women.

http://ideas.time.com/2013/06/17/affirmative-action-has-helped-white-women-more-than-anyone/

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#353 Edited by poeticwarrior (3526 posts) - - Show Bio

@just_sayin: So? Nothing about that has anything to do with the racial discrimination that is already existing. I have already explained why based on the historical context, the poor White kids are still way better off than the Black kids that were lived in ghetto areas. Even on applications, whether in jobs or in school, the White kids, especially with "White" names, are more likely to get in or get hired than other minorities like Hispanics or Blacks. There are studies on it. Affirmative Action for White people already exists, we just don't talk about it. This is not about individual cases, but more like a reparation for the stuffs that happened like the government gives money to the displaced Japanese. This is the government making up for the past mistakes that created such a gap in racial and economic gap in the first place between races. By acting like White privilege doesn't exist and focusing on the individuals, we ignore the racism and inequality that is already existing in society.

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#355 Posted by lukespeedblitz (1609 posts) - - Show Bio
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#356 Posted by WarlordEternal (4981 posts) - - Show Bio

Based of of the experiences of myself and my family (black/mexican), I'd say so.

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#357 Posted by poeticwarrior (3526 posts) - - Show Bio
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#358 Edited by JwalserV2 (67 posts) - - Show Bio

Absolutely! Whites are devils! We waz kangs!

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#359 Posted by Dernman (25981 posts) - - Show Bio
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#360 Posted by poeticwarrior (3526 posts) - - Show Bio
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#361 Posted by TheNaughtyTitan (10001 posts) - - Show Bio
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#362 Edited by poeticwarrior (3526 posts) - - Show Bio
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#363 Posted by kbm (1070 posts) - - Show Bio

Obviously but not to the extent that most people act like

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#364 Posted by jagernutt (16346 posts) - - Show Bio

no. Only in Asia

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#365 Posted by poeticwarrior (3526 posts) - - Show Bio

@kbm said:

Obviously but not to the extent that most people act like

Definitely not, it's often more.

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#367 Edited by kbm (1070 posts) - - Show Bio

@poeticwarrior: that depends on the country, my country is most likely different to yours but it still doesn't change the fact that they are privileged

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#368 Posted by Static Shock (53021 posts) - - Show Bio

Absolutely! Whites are devils! We waz kangs!

I don't think White people are devils, but White privilege is real.

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#369 Edited by cameron83 (8548 posts) - - Show Bio

@static_shock: Don't argue with anyone that says "whites are devils!" and/or "we waz kangs"

The first one shows that they don't even bother to try and understand the other side and would rather mock a strawman, and the second is more along the lines of derogatory and equally rhetorical. Considering the people on this site, I am not surprised by either.

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#370 Edited by Static Shock (53021 posts) - - Show Bio

@cameron83: I understand. But, there are a number of Black people that believe all White people are devils and refer to them as cave dwellers, or what the NOI like to call them, genetically created human beings. I get that White people, in history, have conquered and taken things from other civilizations, but let's be real. Saying they are all devils and shit is no better than all of them calling us thugs, monkeys, ghetto, violent, and uncivilized.

Although White privilege and institutionalized (systemic) racism are real, I don't believe in being racially prejudice towards them in retaliation.

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#371 Posted by cameron83 (8548 posts) - - Show Bio

@static_shock: Oh yeah, no disagreement in that point. I've met a few people like that, and they even similarly chant things like "white people are the result of genetic mutations/abominations" and whatnot. And you are definitely right, that is racist and is pretty much the equivalent of when they call us violent thugs.

However, I don't think that's his point. His point is pretty much suggesting that those that believe in white privilege are also the type that believe in those sayings, and are racist against white people. And that's pretty much a strawman, because you don't have to be racist or hate white people to believe in the concept of white privilege (whether or not if you do). Suggesting that people are racist because they acknowledge white privilege is just as ridiculous as saying that people that disagree with the concept are racists.

But you are right, in your point. I'm just saying that he just seems to be mocking black people, because that's what the "we waz kangs" phrase means. It's mocking black people that say things like "we use to be kings in africa....etc etc....white man came....etc etc." And no one here actually said that. Hell, that's not even part of the concept of white privilege.

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#372 Posted by Static Shock (53021 posts) - - Show Bio

However, I don't think that's his point. His point is pretty much suggesting that those that believe in white privilege are also the type that believe in those sayings, and are racist against white people. And that's pretty much a strawman, because you don't have to be racist or hate white people to believe in the concept of white privilege (whether or not if you do). Suggesting that people are racist because they acknowledge white privilege is just as ridiculous as saying that people that disagree with the concept are racists.

But you are right, in your point. I'm just saying that he just seems to be mocking black people, because that's what the "we waz kangs" phrase means. It's mocking black people that say things like "we use to be kings in africa....etc etc....white man came....etc etc." And no one here actually said that. Hell, that's not even part of the concept of white privilege.

Agreed.

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#373 Edited by Omniscience (502 posts) - - Show Bio

This is like asking a wealthy businessman "is income inequality real?"

The rich man has worked hard for his money, and therefore, he feels entitled to whatever benefits that his wealth provides.

He simply cannot understand his position of privilege, because he has been protected from certain social barriers to success, i.e. being brought up in a poor and criminalised environment, lack of education, lack of family life. Without having experienced these things, he cannot relate to the concept of income inequality.

So it is with white privilege.

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#374 Posted by Flumox56 (2301 posts) - - Show Bio

Yes of course it exists. But it is not just White sub-populations that are more privileged then others.

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#375 Posted by Nerise (920 posts) - - Show Bio

Obviously

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#376 Posted by deactivated-57b89658ba257 (862 posts) - - Show Bio

Yes - it exists in the minds of a great many people

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#377 Posted by JwalserV2 (67 posts) - - Show Bio

@cameron83: I understand. But, there are a number of Black people that believe all White people are devils and refer to them as cave dwellers, or what the NOI like to call them, genetically created human beings. I get that White people, in history, have conquered and taken things from other civilizations, but let's be real. Saying they are all devils and shit is no better than all of them calling us thugs, monkeys, ghetto, violent, and uncivilized.

Although White privilege and institutionalized (systemic) racism are real, I don't believe in being racially prejudice towards them in retaliation.

Literally all races have conquered others, that's how we have the countries we have know. I'm not sure what we've taken from other countries. Besides the land we have won through right of conquest. I'll be honest, the "we waz kangs" was a tasteless joke. I just don't see white privilege. I'm sure it must be because I'm white, and I'm going to be told I can't understand it because I'm white.

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#378 Posted by juiceboks (24799 posts) - - Show Bio

@jwalserv2: Understanding and recognizing white privilege has nothing to do with your ethnicity, it's all about your mindset. There are plenty of black people that reject the idea as well.

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#379 Posted by poeticwarrior (3526 posts) - - Show Bio

@static_shock said:

@cameron83: I understand. But, there are a number of Black people that believe all White people are devils and refer to them as cave dwellers, or what the NOI like to call them, genetically created human beings. I get that White people, in history, have conquered and taken things from other civilizations, but let's be real. Saying they are all devils and shit is no better than all of them calling us thugs, monkeys, ghetto, violent, and uncivilized.

Although White privilege and institutionalized (systemic) racism are real, I don't believe in being racially prejudice towards them in retaliation.

Literally all races have conquered others, that's how we have the countries we have know. I'm not sure what we've taken from other countries. Besides the land we have won through right of conquest. I'll be honest, the "we waz kangs" was a tasteless joke. I just don't see white privilege. I'm sure it must be because I'm white, and I'm going to be told I can't understand it because I'm white.

That's why I said a lot of White people don't understand racism. The world is catered to them, so they don't see why it's necessary for a certain things, like why there are a need for more diversity, like characters should be characters, why does it matter if the character has to be Black or Asian? Ignoring the reality that they don't care because almost all the characters they see are White. It's very frustrating especially when all the Asian roles get changed to White because the film industry perceived that more people want to watch Whites on movie and no one wants to watch Asians. Isn't that a privilege that you get prior consideration? Study shows that between two equally qualified application between a Black and White candidate, people tend to hire White candidate more. You think Affirmative Action exists simply because it's to be racist against White people? It's because White Affirmative Action is the default. They can't understand that Black Lives Matter movement is about bringing attention to the facts that Black lives often get treated harsher under the laws, they get harsher sentences compared to the White peers. It's not that people don't believe All Lives Matter, it's just that Black Lives don't matter as much as White Lives at the moment. All Lives Matter should be a thing, but it's not the current reality. People say that racism isn't an issue because racism isn't an issue for them.

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#380 Posted by nick_hero22 (8686 posts) - - Show Bio

This thread is equivalent to asking the question is water wet, yes or no? We have had empirical data for decades now that show that the color of your skin and how people's perception of skin color affects certain demographics access to resources, for example, there was a study done that showed that a white male with no college degree and a felon has better job prospects when compared a black male with a college degree and no felon. Empirical data has also supported the claim that 70 - 80% white people harbor anti-black biases as well, and these biases have real world consequences for demographics that are non-white since white people hold the overwhelming majority of socio-economical power in America via Colonialism/Imperialism.

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#381 Posted by nick_hero22 (8686 posts) - - Show Bio

@cameron83: I understand. But, there are a number of Black people that believe all White people are devils and refer to them as cave dwellers, or what the NOI like to call them, genetically created human beings. I get that White people, in history, have conquered and taken things from other civilizations, but let's be real. Saying they are all devils and shit is no better than all of them calling us thugs, monkeys, ghetto, violent, and uncivilized.

Although White privilege and institutionalized (systemic) racism are real, I don't believe in being racially prejudice towards them in retaliation.

Those racial caricatures that were denoted to people of African descent originated from the white colonial mind during the era of Scientific Racism when white people utilized these stereotypes in order to justify colonization and slavery of indigenous people. I think what those people mean when they call white people devils is that white people have done A LOT of devilish things, but by flippantly dismissing their criticism of white people you are missing the ways we have been indoctrinated as black folks to assume that white people are morally redeemable no matter what they do. When people say these kinds of things we need to ask ourselves when do people stop becoming redeemable, and what exactly does that mean.

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#382 Posted by juiceboks (24799 posts) - - Show Bio

@static_shock said:

@cameron83: I understand. But, there are a number of Black people that believe all White people are devils and refer to them as cave dwellers, or what the NOI like to call them, genetically created human beings. I get that White people, in history, have conquered and taken things from other civilizations, but let's be real. Saying they are all devils and shit is no better than all of them calling us thugs, monkeys, ghetto, violent, and uncivilized.

Although White privilege and institutionalized (systemic) racism are real, I don't believe in being racially prejudice towards them in retaliation.

Those racial caricatures that were denoted to people of African descent originated from the white colonial mind during the era of Scientific Racism when white people utilized these stereotypes in order to justify colonization and slavery of indigenous people. I think what those people mean when they call white people devils is that white people have done A LOT of devilish things, but by flippantly dismissing their criticism of white people you are missing the ways we have been indoctrinated as black folks to assume that white people are morally redeemable no matter what they do. When people say these kinds of things we need to ask ourselves when do people stop becoming redeemable, and what exactly does that mean.

I've never noticed that manner of mendacious propaganda, care to explain.

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#383 Edited by nick_hero22 (8686 posts) - - Show Bio

@juiceboks said:
@nick_hero22 said:
@static_shock said:

@cameron83: I understand. But, there are a number of Black people that believe all White people are devils and refer to them as cave dwellers, or what the NOI like to call them, genetically created human beings. I get that White people, in history, have conquered and taken things from other civilizations, but let's be real. Saying they are all devils and shit is no better than all of them calling us thugs, monkeys, ghetto, violent, and uncivilized.

Although White privilege and institutionalized (systemic) racism are real, I don't believe in being racially prejudice towards them in retaliation.

Those racial caricatures that were denoted to people of African descent originated from the white colonial mind during the era of Scientific Racism when white people utilized these stereotypes in order to justify colonization and slavery of indigenous people. I think what those people mean when they call white people devils is that white people have done A LOT of devilish things, but by flippantly dismissing their criticism of white people you are missing the ways we have been indoctrinated as black folks to assume that white people are morally redeemable no matter what they do. When people say these kinds of things we need to ask ourselves when do people stop becoming redeemable, and what exactly does that mean.

I've never noticed that manner of mendacious propaganda, care to explain.

Era of Scientific Racism during European Colonization

This video is just one instance of racial stereotypes being used to justify pure evilness, and still to this day we hear things like "Black women are more masculine" or "Black women are more tougher" and fell to realize that these things have historical roots. I believe that a lot of us have internalized these racial stereotypes, and the propaganda about white people that was being spread around up until contemporary times.

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#384 Posted by juiceboks (24799 posts) - - Show Bio

@nick_hero22: I'm well aware of the stream of pseudo science passed off as infallible data used to justify the inhumane subjugation of black people over the centuries. My question was mainly regarding the idea that black people are led to believe that white people are exempt from scrutiny regarding all the past atrocities towards us. I wasn't aware that was a mentality present in modern times, could you give an example?

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#385 Posted by TorikoWONTDie (1635 posts) - - Show Bio

FYI it's not white privilege y'all, it's white male privilege. White females qualify for affirmative action. And yes white male privilege does exist, but not for all white males. I would say significantly less than half and it has to do with the family/income level your born in, or wealthy relatives you have. Deal with it.

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#386 Posted by echostarlord117 (5615 posts) - - Show Bio

At this point, I'd need to see some concrete evidence because if it does exist, it doesn't seem to conspicuously.

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#387 Edited by poeticwarrior (3526 posts) - - Show Bio

@echostarlord117 said:

At this point, I'd need to see some concrete evidence because if it does exist, it doesn't seem to conspicuously.

Exist to you? If you're White, you're not gonna see it because it's not gonna affect you.

Which one you want me to provide, because I have a lot of studies I save up from my colleges and sources and link as well. I have studies where people of the same level of different races where Whites get hire more. Asians get lower position jobs with higher education called the Bamboo ceiling, Blacks get harsher crimes, movie casting where they write Caucasian as a requirement and some movies wouldn't get made without a White leads, etc. Would you choose to read up on it or would you just gonna ignore it?

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#388 Edited by Static Shock (53021 posts) - - Show Bio

@nick_hero22 said:
I think what those people mean when they call white people devils is that white people have done A LOT of devilish things, but by flippantly dismissing their criticism of white people you are missing the ways we have been indoctrinated as black folks to assume that white people are morally redeemable no matter what they do.

So, all White people are the same to you, even the ones that don't judge based on skin color or the ones that are well aware of (and also have an issue with) the way society treats minorities?

All White people are the same as the White people that hung innocent Black people from trees decades ago, right?

It's either a yes or no.

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#389 Posted by nick_hero22 (8686 posts) - - Show Bio

@nick_hero22: I'm well aware of the stream of pseudo science passed off as infallible data used to justify the inhumane subjugation of black people over the centuries. My question was mainly regarding the idea that black people are led to believe that white people are exempt from scrutiny regarding all the past atrocities towards us. I wasn't aware that was a mentality present in modern times, could you give an example?

The Not All White People responses that white people and some black people use to deflect criticism of white people because when we talk about racism and white supremacy in America, we aren't talking about a few isolated incidents here and there. What we are talking about is "White Culture", and you have some black people that will fight harder than some white people to deflect any types of criticism against "White Culture".

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#390 Edited by nick_hero22 (8686 posts) - - Show Bio

@nick_hero22 said:
I think what those people mean when they call white people devils is that white people have done A LOT of devilish things, but by flippantly dismissing their criticism of white people you are missing the ways we have been indoctrinated as black folks to assume that white people are morally redeemable no matter what they do.

So, all White people are the same to you, even the ones that don't judge based on skin color or the ones that are well aware of (and also have an issue with) the way society treats minorities?

All White people are the same as the White people that hung innocent Black people from trees decades ago, right?

It's either a yes or no.

Empirical data from Implicit Bias Association Test have shown us that the overwhelming majority (70 - 80%) of white people harbor anti-black biases, so this isn't just a few bad apples we are talking about here.

The overwhelming majority of white people hold views that are very similar to their ancestors, and the possibilities and opportunities that white people can take themselves up in are the byproduct of the stolen resources and exploitation of people of color around the globe that is a enough to denote moral responsibility.

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#391 Edited by nick_hero22 (8686 posts) - - Show Bio
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#392 Posted by Static Shock (53021 posts) - - Show Bio

Empirical data from Implicit Bias Association Test have shown us that the overwhelming majority (70 - 80%) of white people harbor anti-black biases, so this isn't just a few bad apples we are talking about here.

The overwhelming majority of white people hold views that are very similar to their ancestors, and the possibilities and opportunities that white people can take themselves up in are the byproduct of the stolen resources and exploitation of people of color around the globe that is a enough to denote moral responsibility.

That's an interesting find. That same data suggests that not all White people (the remaining 20%) have anti-Black biases, though. Glass half full...

But, yes. They do reap all of the benefits. There's no denying that.

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#393 Posted by nick_hero22 (8686 posts) - - Show Bio

@nick_hero22 said:

Empirical data from Implicit Bias Association Test have shown us that the overwhelming majority (70 - 80%) of white people harbor anti-black biases, so this isn't just a few bad apples we are talking about here.

The overwhelming majority of white people hold views that are very similar to their ancestors, and the possibilities and opportunities that white people can take themselves up in are the byproduct of the stolen resources and exploitation of people of color around the globe that is a enough to denote moral responsibility.

That's an interesting find. That same data suggests that not all White people (the remaining 20%) have anti-Black biases, though. Glass half full...

But, yes. They do reap all of the benefits. There's no denying that.

No sociological experiment is perfect, and methodologies are always in a constant state of refinement. There are also other studies lend credence to Implicit Bias Association Test.

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#394 Posted by FitnessTribesman13 (1621 posts) - - Show Bio

@nick_hero22: Holy crap! I didn't realize how serious this was until I saw that. Thanks for sharing that info!

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#396 Posted by nick_hero22 (8686 posts) - - Show Bio

@nick_hero22 said:

Empirical data from Implicit Bias Association Test have shown us that the overwhelming majority (70 - 80%) of white people harbor anti-black biases, so this isn't just a few bad apples we are talking about here.

The overwhelming majority of white people hold views that are very similar to their ancestors, and the possibilities and opportunities that white people can take themselves up in are the byproduct of the stolen resources and exploitation of people of color around the globe that is a enough to denote moral responsibility.

That's an interesting find. That same data suggests that not all White people (the remaining 20%) have anti-Black biases, though. Glass half full...

But, yes. They do reap all of the benefits. There's no denying that.

@nick_hero22: Holy crap! I didn't realize how serious this was until I saw that. Thanks for sharing that info!

http://healthland.time.com/2010/10/11/seeking-the-authentic-self-how-do-you-know-if-youre-really-racist-or-sexist/

"By themselves, these unconscious associations are perhaps interesting but not especially useful. Data suggest that about 88% of white Americans and a startling 48% of African Americans show a bias in favor of whites on this test, but that doesn’t mean all respondents who show implicit bias engage in actual discrimination. Indeed, it doesn’t even mean that all respondents who show implicit bias actually harbor bias; they may simply be reflecting cultural knowledge of stereotypes or mere familiarity."

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#397 Posted by Static Shock (53021 posts) - - Show Bio

http://healthland.time.com/2010/10/11/seeking-the-authentic-self-how-do-you-know-if-youre-really-racist-or-sexist/

"By themselves, these unconscious associations are perhaps interesting but not especially useful. Data suggest that about 88% of white Americans and a startling 48% of African Americans show a bias in favor of whites on this test, but that doesn’t mean all respondents who show implicit bias engage in actual discrimination. Indeed, it doesn’t even mean that all respondents who show implicit bias actually harbor bias; they may simply be reflecting cultural knowledge of stereotypes or mere familiarity."

So, the results aren't always an accurate reflection of one's personal feelings toward someone who is either White or Black? That's what I'm getting from this.

I took the test, too. I moderately associate more with Blacks than with Whites, based on the results. But, I usually don't discriminate towards White people.

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#398 Posted by Shanana (60357 posts) - - Show Bio

White Privilege does exist, but I don't believe it's every white person's fault. None of us chose the color we were going to be born, the system white people have; give them the advantage. There are cases where White people get the advantage and don't think anything of it, because they just don't think like that. I typically think about it like this though, If I were White, would I give up my advantage for someone else?

Honestly, No I wouldn't. I don't think any other ethnicity would. It's a shame that such an advantage even exists, but that's the world we live in. I think it's really funny people saying "Not as much as we think" When it's been statistically proven that in the work force White's are more than likely to get hired and they receive favorable interest rates. (Note* I'm black so the video I saw was in regards to black people. If this question is geared towards people of other ethnicities than I apologize for my intrusion)

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#399 Edited by nick_hero22 (8686 posts) - - Show Bio

@static_shock said:
@nick_hero22 said:

http://healthland.time.com/2010/10/11/seeking-the-authentic-self-how-do-you-know-if-youre-really-racist-or-sexist/

"By themselves, these unconscious associations are perhaps interesting but not especially useful. Data suggest that about 88% of white Americans and a startling 48% of African Americans show a bias in favor of whites on this test, but that doesn’t mean all respondents who show implicit bias engage in actual discrimination. Indeed, it doesn’t even mean that all respondents who show implicit bias actually harbor bias; they may simply be reflecting cultural knowledge of stereotypes or mere familiarity."

So, the results aren't always an accurate reflection of one's personal feelings toward someone who is either White or Black? That's what I'm getting from this.

I took the test, too. I moderately associate more with Blacks than with Whites, based on the results. But, I usually don't discriminate towards White people.

You aren't acknowledging how power comes into play when it comes to discrimination in America, and I would argue that the reason why black people have pro-black leanings is as a response to pseudo-scientific racial caricatures that existed until the late 20th Century and the fact that black people have been racial segregated by white people.

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#400 Posted by Static Shock (53021 posts) - - Show Bio