Is there still a press faithful to its role ?

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jacdec

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Poll Is there still a press faithful to its role ? (6 votes)

Yes, most large organs. 33%
Yes, some press. 17%
Maybe, but his credibility is plummeting. 17%
No, there is nothing left but the scoop at all costs. 33%

A few days ago, almost all press outlets announced that Israel's bombing of a Gaza hospital left more than 1,000 men, women and children dead.

but it turns out

  • that the hospital was not affected
  • that no one was injured inside
  • that the explosion occurred in the parking lot
  • that it did not cause significant damage to the surrounding buildings
  • that the impact corresponds neither to an aerial bomb nor to a missile
  • that no debris of an Israeli machine was found on the site
  • that there is no trace of the thousand corpses

What conclusion should we draw from this ?

 • 
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LordTwigo

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Yes, because I assume you got all this information from a news source you trust rather than being there yourself

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Steve40L

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how did you get that info?

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Gambler

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No, not completely anyway. Maybe there is but I myself am a cynic. I especially dont trust anything coming outta that mess in Israel (in either direction). Just that one incident with the hospital has now had 3 narratives. Ridiculous.

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Argreion

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It’s complicated. A little blame goes to media outlets for irresponsible messaging, at least as far as honestly informing their audience of what information they have and making it clear that details can change with new information. Since their goal is to get a story out quickly and that is tied to their profit motive, it often means reporting what is ascertainable at the time. A little blame also goes to the audience who lacks patience in these situations, attaching themselves to narratives and being unable to change their minds when confronted with new facts without alleging some kind of conspiracy. These conditions exist with any type of news story, but especially in active military war zones where you’re not going to get an unbiased investigator into the facts right away to be able to determine what happened. You’ll almost never get 100% objective information, so the burden must be shared by consumers to be more critical and self reflective. My 2 cents

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taehyun

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There's so much fake news and biased sources out there nowadays that I take much of what I see or read on TV/Internet with a grain of salt.

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Necromancer76

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@taehyun said:

There's so much fake news and biased sources out there nowadays that I take much of what I see or read on TV/Internet with a grain of salt.

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jacdec

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@lordtwigo: Yes, there are a series of major press outlets that I find serious and in which I tend to believe, such as Le Monde, Libération or Le Figaro. Also TV channels like BFM TV, RTBF, LCI, CNews or FranceInfo.

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jacdec

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jacdec

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@gambler: Yes, and many media outlets (and journalists) do not do their job of verifying information properly and run too quickly after the scoop.

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jacdec

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@argreion: I hadn't seen things from that angle, but it is indeed complicated and responsibilities are shared.

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jacdec

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@taehyun: Indeed, and it becomes more and more uncomfortable to form your own opinion.

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TheInsufferable

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#12  Edited By TheInsufferable

There's so many things that go into it. The pressure of having something to report, and having to report it as fast as possible, while competing with countless others.

What it ultimately comes down to though is that news corporations as a whole don't see their "role" the same way you do, some sort of unbiased reporting of truth (even the possibility of doing that is questionable, but that's a story for another thread). To them, their main role is fulfilling some agenda(s). Sometimes, it's selling a product to an audience (yes, news are products). Sometimes, it's satisfying some patron or authority's interests. Oftentimes, it's a combination of the two plus the interests and policies of many other players. It's never as simple and innocent as some honest investigation of truth for the public.

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Eisenfauste

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#13  Edited By Eisenfauste

Reminds me of the supposed gas attack on civilians in Syria years back. Video of a roomful of "dead" women, men, children was circulated on Twitter. Months later it was proven to be misinformation and all the folks in the video were pretending to be dead. Not a whole lot of news on that though.

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Eisenfauste

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@jacdec: Do you have a source for your claim? I'd like to see it.

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Steve40L

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@jacdec I hope that my case makes itself clear

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dernman

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For those who voted yes. I have a bridge to sell ya.

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fabricolage

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I wanna say maybe parody or satire news, but I haven't checked on them in a long while. Everything's biased whether its the events, source, or whatever, imo. Like reality tv shows probably.

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NOHOOUR

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this is attack on titan all over again but in real life

propaganda on both sides who think the other is evil

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jacdec

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Reminds me of the supposed gas attack on civilians in Syria years back. Video of a roomful of "dead" women, men, children was circulated on Twitter. Months later it was proven to be misinformation and all the folks in the video were pretending to be dead. Not a whole lot of news on that though.

It takes a certain amount of bad faith to talk about supposed attacks.

The CIAC, an international organization established in The Hague to monitor compliance with the Chemical Weapons Convention, investigated the cases of Ghouta (2013), Khan Sheikhoun (2017) and Douma (2018). He confirms, in all three cases, the use of chemical weapons. He only attributes responsibility for the attack to Syria in the case of Ghouta.

It cannot be ruled out that Syrian rebel or terrorist groups, Kurdish groups or the Islamic State could be involved in the other two attacks.

It is unfortunately common for social networks, Twitter in particular, to become the vector of macabre scenes as part of the war of images.

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jacdec

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@jacdec: Do you have a source for your claim? I'd like to see it.

No Caption Provided

A small hole in a parking lot, traces of a violent fire, almost intact buildings in the background.

An Israeli missile, who are we kidding ?

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jacdec

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jacdec

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@theinsufferable: You're still so annoying. You present things in a clear, precise, concise and unstoppable manner. Thank you for this very accurate clarification.

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jacdec

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#23  Edited By jacdec

I wanna say maybe parody or satire news, but I haven't checked on them in a long while. Everything's biased whether its the events, source, or whatever, imo. Like reality tv shows probably.

And how do you form your own opinion. Because I assume you have one.

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jacdec

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@nohoour said:

this is attack on titan all over again but in real life

propaganda on both sides who think the other is evil

Neither Israelis nor Palestinians are angels. But here, it is becoming more and more obvious that absolute evil is at work, today embodied by Hamas. Its eradication is a necessity for the survival of the world. The only question that should animate the debates concerns the best way to achieve this.

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Eisenfauste

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@jacdec: I say supposed because the chemical attack was a hoax.

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fabricolage

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#26  Edited By fabricolage

@jacdec said:
@fabricolage said:

I wanna say maybe parody or satire news, but I haven't checked on them in a long while. Everything's biased whether its the events, source, or whatever, imo. Like reality tv shows probably.

And how do you form your own opinion. Because I assume you have one.

Like anyone, having good judgment is hard to achieve, especially when you're blinded by your own narratives and ego. I would just have a preconceived narrative mindset before seeing other perspectives or noticing contradictions to it, if they are any. That, and some clips or whatever showcasing some news sources' failure to be trustworthy. Normally I don't care much about politics due to hearing of oppositions being biased. I'd still check things out when possible just like with learning of accidents, problems, deaths, and other moments. Basically, I don't have much related to the issue you might be thinking of.

I would see unreliable criticisms in like game or media reviews where their criticism feels wrong and nitpicking due to it likely not being western-made and current events political, which could have been happening since forever. It can be seen as xenophobia and virtue-signaling. They would criticize small things that weren't bugs as they barely attempted to search for what they wanted in the settings, could have ignored like a sexy character that wasn't even a major character in the game, a remake or remaster doing its job remaking or remastering a game, etc. I think it was like Kotaku, maybe Polygon, IGN, regular comments in which game is better wars, and other known brands that had strange criticisms.

I stopped caring when I realized that I could check if a game or media is underrated or just try it. That, and I feel like most of the reviews are focused on a rich family-friendly audience setting if not their own bias, like 'can i play or watch this in front of my loved ones and friends and not worry about relationship issues or problematic issues?' rather than feeling like a casual player who is a fan of or knows the series well. But as I'm seeing what reviews were given for games with micro-transactions, fomo, dlc that should have been in the base game, I'm still questioning things. That, and realizing that maybe I should search harder for things like a treasure hunter wanting the things overlooked or underrated rather than a bystander around free samples or bait 'free stuff'.

All in all, there can be genuine interest in anything done, but when money, ego, drama, pressure, and status is involved, things can get skewed. Not saying it with all news or what I would ever know, but with any news it can be either:

  • Just believe it and move on. Don't try to lose your mind over it. Maybe new results will change things or get worse.
  • Some things will not be reported for reasons outside their control.
  • Some things will not be reported due to bias or interest.
  • Some things will be reported to rake in views and drama, regardless of what information was gathered.
  • You'd have to investigate further.

They could write or say 'shit happened', but I doubt that will attract many viewers and readers.

tl;dr I barely trust reviews, man. I just go 'okay, damn...' and move on.

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NOHOOUR

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@jacdec said:

@nohoour said:

this is attack on titan all over again but in real life

propaganda on both sides who think the other is evil

Neither Israelis nor Palestinians are angels. But here, it is becoming more and more obvious that absolute evil is at work, today embodied by Hamas. Its eradication is a necessity for the survival of the world. The only question that should animate the debates concerns the best way to achieve this.

there's no absolute evil here. the hamas attack on israel might as well have been the eren yeager attack on marley as retaliation for centuries of demonization and oppression being bottled up

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jacdec

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@fabricolage: Thanks for the long explanation. Video games aren't really my thing. But I understand the logic of reasoning. I like this idea of a first preconceived vision of reality that we refine through experience. I know now that you have your own opinion.

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jacdec

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@nohoour: I don't share your opinion. Without entering into controversy, the context is much broader than that of the Palestinians' misfortunes. Hamas, and the entire galaxy in which it orbits, underpins an ideology that embodies absolute evil. If they join forces with Hamas, the Palestinians are selling their souls.