Is God bound by logic?

  • 75 results
  • 1
  • 2
Avatar image for sakazukiiilol
Sakazukiiilol

22

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Poll Is God bound by logic? (28 votes)

Yes 32%
No 68%

Why or why not?

 • 
Avatar image for steve40l
Steve40L

5295

Forum Posts

144

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Well I mean, the way they're written, being that it's fictional, obviously isn't. That being said, a god would have to abide by logic just because they exist in this universe. Logic does not mean our current working model of the universe, logic means to be sensible.

Avatar image for dernman
dernman

36557

Forum Posts

10092

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 9

@steve40l said:

. That being said, a god would have to abide by logic just because they exist in this universe. Logic does not mean our current working model of the universe, logic means to be sensible.

If a god is the creator then no he wouldn't have to abide by it since he created the universe and the logic within. It would be a choice.

Avatar image for coolcat4
coolcat4

81

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Yes, I would say He is. Logic is a product of the mind of God.

Avatar image for cat-like24
cat-like24

357

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Is a throwaway bound by logic? Why or why not?

Avatar image for warstars1977
WarStars1977

564

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

An omnipotent being can do whatever it wants. It’s bound by nothing.

Avatar image for steve40l
Steve40L

5295

Forum Posts

144

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#6  Edited By Steve40L

@dernman: I'm assuming a possible god, as I even made sure to exclude the extra absurd stuff in the first part of my post.

Avatar image for seventhmoon
SeventhMoon

1565

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#7 SeventhMoon  Online

A hypothetical omnipotent must be bound by logic, as logic is required to even determine if something has consistent properties, like an omnipotent always being above everyone and being capable of doing all possible things. That requires logic. If something is "beyond logic", then it is illogical, and so there's nothing stopping an ant from beating an omnipotent in a fight because there is no logic to it.

So in the end, an omnipotent must be able to do anything logically possible, but can't do illogical things. This isn't a limitation though, as illogical things are not things at all. A fiction could make an illogical omnipotent though, but as I've said before, illogical fictions can't be debated, as debates are predicated upon coherent reasoning.

Avatar image for arranvid2
ArranVid2

892

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

No, I do not think God is bound by logic, if God exists. If God exists, I do not think it is right to apply human concepts of logic and finite concepts to God. I think if God exists, then God is unfathomable to the human mind...and maybe God is beyond concepts like logic. If God is inifinite in power...if God is omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscient (as described in Hinduism), then God is possibly beyond logic.

Avatar image for arranvid2
ArranVid2

892

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#9  Edited By ArranVid2

Just like how Mario in his game can never conceive the idea of Shigheru Miyamoto, the creator of the Mario videogames and characters (because Shigheru lives on another dimension to his videogame character, Mario)...maybe it is the same thing between God and humans.

Avatar image for arranvid2
ArranVid2

892

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

An omnipotent being can do whatever it wants. It’s bound by nothing.

I agree with you, I think.

Avatar image for arranvid2
ArranVid2

892

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#11  Edited By ArranVid2

I used to think that God was bound by logic, but I changed my mind.

Avatar image for scarx
ScarX

155

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

This is like saying is God bound by good

Avatar image for alextheboss
alextheboss

30697

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

This post presupposes god is real. Assuming an all powerful being existed, is it not logical that an all powerful being could do anything? So anything they do would hence be logical.

Avatar image for dernman
dernman

36557

Forum Posts

10092

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 9

#14  Edited By dernman
@steve40l said:

@dernman: I'm assuming a possible god, as I even made sure to exclude the extra absurd stuff in the first part of my post.

The extra absurd stuff as you call it is no more absurd than a god existing at all though. Especially when we can only guess and speculate at something like that. There are many things beyond us in the universe some we will eventually understand through science but that doesn't mean there are not some thing beyond our comprehension in a way we never could. God could very well be one of those things. If something like that even existed. Nothing is off the table when we don't know anything but old stories passed down through the ages which is hardly reliable guideline.

Avatar image for steve40l
Steve40L

5295

Forum Posts

144

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@dernman: Not following logic is a tad bit more absurd than follow logic though isn't it? Logic is also extremely flexible. I'm not saying they're bound by a 3d plane or anything of the sort, just that a set of rules can be applied

Avatar image for dshipp17
dshipp17

7748

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

@dernman said:
@steve40l said:

@dernman: I'm assuming a possible god, as I even made sure to exclude the extra absurd stuff in the first part of my post.

The extra absurd stuff as you call it is no more absurd than a god existing at all though. Especially when we can only guess and speculate at something like that. There are many things beyond us in the universe some we will eventually understand through science but that doesn't mean there are not some thing beyond our comprehension in a way we never could. God could very well be one of those things. If something like that even existed. Nothing is off the table when we don't know anything but old stories passed down through the ages which is hardly reliable guideline.

“The extra absurd stuff as you call it is no more absurd than a god existing at all though. Especially when we can only guess and speculate at something like that.”

Where are you getting this from? What reality do you live? What's absurd is a concept like the Big Bang (e.g. Something randomly coming from nothing). In the reality that we live we aren't relegated to a guess or speculation about God. All you have to do is just basic research to get informed and possibly educated on this topic: clearly, you're uninformed and ignorant; part of this is because you've blocked yourself off from information on this topic; if you really believed this then you should be asking the question: what are you talking about, when you said God? Nobody's fooled, just drop the pretense and act for once.

Papua New Guinea says Friday's landslide buried more than 2,000 people and formally asks for help

Avatar image for dshipp17
dshipp17

7748

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#17  Edited By dshipp17

The term, logic, is just a human construct; logic is the latest example of people trying to figure out the world around us. Genesis Chapter 1 from the Holy Bible shows us that in the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth; it shows us that God said, let there be light and then there was light. Later on, came Jesus; Jesus is noted for His many miracles, as document by the Holy Bible; Jesus created wine from water in just moments and the Gospels from the New Testament of the Bible explain to us the peoples' comments and reaction in explaining how creating wine from water in mere moments was a miracle.

Thus, the creation of this universe, earth, and reality was a miracle; miracles defy logic; thus, God wouldn't bound by the human made construct we call logic. A quick case and point, something like the human construct that's the Big Bang is illogical and absorb, yet something that's reality consisting of material matter is here somehow; from there, reality is here; something beyond logic brought us here; the Bible then explains that for us.

PGA winner Grayson Murray, 30, died by suicide, family says

Lightning strike kills rancher, 34 cows

Loading Video...
Avatar image for warstars1977
WarStars1977

564

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@warstars1977 said:

An omnipotent being can do whatever it wants. It’s bound by nothing.

I agree with you, I think.

God in so many religions is described as omnipotent. Now we have created his word omnipotent, but we don’t apply it holistically when it comes to god.

The ability to do absolutely anything is simply that—ability to do anything. All powerful. Unlimited power. Bound by nothing. This includes logic.

Avatar image for baldur_odinson
Baldur_Odinson

6470

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

God is written in such a way that he is bound by his own logic, which he determines the fringes of; therefore, he can be outside or within the laws of logic, shaping it however he sees fit.

Avatar image for chainchan
ChainChan

2495

Forum Posts

191

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#20  Edited By ChainChan

Can't say Bound, and Neither can you say supersede without.. a weird world view that grant's an unknowable and also knowable God.. so it's better to say he Ground's Logic as a natural result of knowing everything.. and keep it's authoritative as a part of his morality.

Avatar image for dernman
dernman

36557

Forum Posts

10092

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 9

#21  Edited By dernman
@steve40l said:

@dernman: Not following logic is a tad bit more absurd than follow logic though isn't it? Logic is also extremely flexible. I'm not saying they're bound by a 3d plane or anything of the sort, just that a set of rules can be applied

Sorry I missed your post. You got lost in the shuffle when I was ignoring another user.

To answer Follow what logic? Based on what? Nothing but assumptions and theory from ancient ideas passed down in stories from people who barely understood much science? We have no real substantial guidelines to measure against to go by so no concept has more weight than the other. A god existing that is bound by logic is no more reasonable than one who's not bound by logic and depending on info we don't have it might the opposite. We don't know anything with any real bases to form a system of logic with. Is the idea god even logical by human standards? Is god even real? Do you have anything to prove that? Based on what is he real or logical? Any evidence or hints that he could be real and couldn't be attributed to something else that we know or possible don't know of? So what exactly are you basing your theoretical logic on and why does it have more bases than other theoretical forms of logic. There is no extra because it's all extra.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not trying disprove god. I want to believe there is a god. I'd be happier if there was a god. I even tend to defend those who are believers way more than those who are not to make the point if you followed my posting history on the subject of god I wouldn't be able to convince you that I wasn't one. For me personally though, I just don't see anything that couldn't be chalked up to something else or characterized as unknown. So to me it's silly to say there are any rules to go by. There is no guide or bases to form anything. It's all up in the air equally.

That's my agnostic atheism. Meaning I don't believe because we humans don't know shit, probably never will know shit or even possibly ever could know shit when it comes to GOD.

Edit: I hope that help you understand. I tried to put it in another way but I felt I just kept repeating myself. If's you still don't understand feel free to break down what you don't understand and what you think I'm saying. Maybe that will help me give you something better for you.

Avatar image for cj_the_dj
cj_the_dj

1167

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#22  Edited By cj_the_dj

@seventhmoon:

A hypothetical omnipotent must be bound by logic, as logic is required to even determine if something has consistent properties, like an omnipotent always being above everyone and being capable of doing all possible things. That requires logic. If something is "beyond logic", then it is illogical, and so there's nothing stopping an ant from beating an omnipotent in a fight because there is no logic to it.

According to what... logic? I hope you realise the problem here.

Avatar image for properbeop
Properbeop

29

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@dernman: do you believe in objective reality?

There are different levels first is ontology, which is the study or essence of a being, epistemology that’s how we know the study of being then you might have semantics, which is how you describe epistemology to the ontology. This can be tethered to objective facts which is objective ontology.

The rules of logic are nearly 2500 years old and date back to Plato and Aristotle who set down the three laws of thought: identity, non-contradiction, and excluded middle. The use of language and logic has been adequate for us to develop mathematics, prove theorems, and create scientific knowledge. Then you use your sense perspective to draw conclusions about the real world and using those tools.

Avatar image for seventhmoon
SeventhMoon

1565

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#24  Edited By SeventhMoon  Online

@cj_the_dj: Logic is self-evident. You use it and experience it without even realizing it. Ever say something like "This character is not omnipotent"? Well "not" is a logical connective. Logic are essentially absolute truth values that are required for anything to exist. If something isn't logical, then it doesn't exist.

Of course, fiction can be illogical, but it can't be debated if so, as again, debates are predicated upon reasoning.

But no, in real life, a hypothetical omnipotent cannot supersede logic, as his superiority to all things requires absolute immutable facts of reality that act as order itself. "This god can do all things and can never be defeated" is already a truth value that is consistently stagnate and absolute. How can that be if there is no logic?

At absolute best, an omnipotent can be an aspect of logic that is necessary for reality, but he cannot supersede it. Nothing supersedes logic.

And no, going beyond the laws of physics and altering the laws of our reality is not necessarily the same as altering logic itself, as nothing suggests the laws of our reality are on the level of immutable laws of logic.

Avatar image for cat-like24
cat-like24

357

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

This post presupposes god is real. Assuming an all powerful being existed, is it not logical that an all powerful being could do anything? So anything they do would hence be logical.

I like this answer!

My answer would be this: "Technically yes."

And I'm not expanding on this answer for an OP'er that never expands on the OP.

Avatar image for properbeop
Properbeop

29

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@dernman: depending on what religion you believe, Christianity is the most accurate when it comes to objective facts.

The Bible is a hyperlink document with more connections than any internet document, yet it was written 3,500 years to 2,000 years ago.

The message is consistent from start to finish, with anecdotal history given as examples and connections from one person to the next, or one person to nations.

40 authors. No other document can make that claim.

Avatar image for steve40l
Steve40L

5295

Forum Posts

144

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@dernman: I get it, I think my dad's a lot like that. I'm a pretty confident atheist though.

I think we misunderstood each other a bit. I'm making no defense for the existence of a god, I'm simply saying that if one were to exist in a universe that follows at least one of our working models, it would have to follow at least some form of logic. I guess if god were illogical there would be literally no way to disprove/prove their existence, but I can't make sense of it in my mind (probably because it's illogical)

I too, really really wish god existed, the idea of heaven is so much more pleasant than just hoping the universe repeats itself so I get to be here again.

Avatar image for dernman
dernman

36557

Forum Posts

10092

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 9

#28  Edited By dernman
@properbeop said:

@dernman: do you believe in objective reality?

Scientifically I believe reality is objective, our perceptions of reality is not. If we get into the whole god thing in relationship to reality then I refer you to the statements I previously posted about it all being up in the air.

There are different levels first is ontology, which is the study or essence of a being, epistemology that’s how we know the study of being then you might have semantics, which is how you describe epistemology to the ontology. This can be tethered to objective facts which is objective ontology.

I don't agree that it's a reliable science. It's limited by the human perspective and human capability and that doesn't even get into the god stuff. You could just say god created it that way but he's above that and could change that if he chooses. I think it's too arrogant of humans to think we can know. That doesn't mean we shouldn't still strive for the knowledge and understanding though. Just that we should realize that we're limited and what we believe to be true, learn could be false. That's why we should always be willing to question the things we believe. I also warn not to go overboard with the questioning to the point of hold onto anything because I believe humans just can't function like that. It's all in balance. I'm not going to be questioning if I'm real. lol Though you could be a chat bot for all I know. :p

The rules of logic are nearly 2500 years old and date back to Plato and Aristotle who set down the three laws of thought: identity, non-contradiction, and excluded middle. The use of language and logic has been adequate for us to develop mathematics, prove theorems, and create scientific knowledge. Then you use your sense perspective to draw conclusions about the real world and using those tools.

Which all gets thrown out the window of something like the concept of god. If God is real and is the creator why would you think he couldn't just make it different? Even scientifically these things that Plato and Aristotle laid down. These laws of thought be believe to be ultimate truths. How do you know it's not just something that is filtered through our limited perceptions and that we're just working within what we're capable of. Maybe one day we'll learn something that shakes everything up, Maybe we prove that everything in our scope is just energy and we find a way to manipulate that energy in such a way that changes what we perceive as reality but until then we have to work with what we got.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Edit:

"""depending on what religion you believe, Christianity is the most accurate when it comes to objective facts.

The Bible is a hyperlink document with more connections than any internet document, yet it was written 3,500 years to 2,000 years ago.

The message is consistent from start to finish, with anecdotal history given as examples and connections from one person to the next, or one person to nations.

40 authors. No other document can make that claim."""""

Lets say just for arguments sake what you're saying it true. Doesn't mean it's a perfect document and couldn't have gotten things wrong. It's written by humans who were limited by knowledge of people from that time. Not to mention we only assume they had the purest of intentions when writing it. Not to mention different people interpret different things when reading it. Not to mention you could read it several times in your life and yourself interpret it differently as you change. Not to mention that many things you read in the bible might mean something different to the ones writing it. Some believers think the book is literal. Some don't. Some believers think it's just meant to be a guide. Some believers think it's the strict word and law. Some believers thinks it's the best humans of the time mark down from what they were able to perceive while other believers believe every word is fact.

There is a reason why there are so many branches of Christianity and why even in the same branches see it differently than the person they're next to.

I think if Christianity is the real deal the bible isn't something you read once and think you know it. I think you have to read it over and over your whole life looking for what it gives you as best you can. I think it's something that can change as you evolve as a person and have different perspectives.

Enough about religions. I don't really like getting deep into specifics like I'm a believer it's real or believer it's not real. I have no interest in swaying someone either way. I'm just some who lacks belief. Not all people who lack the belief gods is real are people who believe god isn't real. There is a big difference. I just like concepts..

Avatar image for dernman
dernman

36557

Forum Posts

10092

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 9

#29  Edited By dernman
@steve40l said:

@dernman:

I think we misunderstood each other a bit. I'm making no defense for the existence of a god, I'm simply saying that if one were to exist in a universe that follows at least one of our working models, it would have to follow at least some form of logic.

Oh I got your argument. I'm just trying to say there isn't anything we have to say he can or can't be bound to it. Also that "logic" who's logic? The logic coming from vastly limited beings? What if some alien came to Earth that is vastly superior to us and could perceive or think of things we couldn't imagine. Wouldn't his logic be superior to our? What if he said something we thought was logical wasn't because of things we don't know about?

There are things in the universe that we don't know and possible will never know. Why do you think we can have all the answers when we don't even know all the questions? Thats just talking scientifically without god. If god is the creator wouldn't logic be at his whims? If he's beyond logic that wouldn't make him illogical because that too would be at his whims. In Christianity for instance they say in the beginning there is only god. Do you get the full possibilities of what that means? Logic and illogical exist? No just god. We can't fully grasp that because we can't think outside that. Which means we can't grasp something that can exist outside that. Something doesn't not exist just because we can't understand it.

I think you're making the mistake that so many people have. The assumption that if god was real that we could even grasp what that actually means even conceptional. Even if for arguments sake some factual data we know was real to base something on was handed to us. I mean god could be so far above our capacity there is no relating or grasping even a percentage of him. So far above us even our concepts can't grasp it. If real it's just on a whole different level. Farther than we are to ants. You think ants grasp us humans fully? Nah we're higher beings. Our brains are capable of more. Couldn't there be an alien with a brain that is capable of better logic and could tell what is true better than us? Now imagine a god. It just seems illogical to me say definitively that we could us our limited understanding in correlation to god and say things like logic and truth. When even scientifically we could be low tier. Yet we keep trying to bring him down to our level. I dunno. Maybe it's because I like concept and god is just a concept to me that people are so limited in their concepts.

Fracks sake we barely get other humans lived experience because we don't live it ourselves yet we're going to say we know it from a higher beings. It's all filtered through our own limitations.

I guess if god were illogical there would be literally no way to disprove/prove their existence, but I can't make sense of it in my mind (probably because it's illogical)

Or maybe you can't make sense of it because you're just human, don't know everything, and might just not have the capacity as a human. That's an ok thing to realize. It's so funny that we humans are so arrogant and think we know everything when we fuck so much shit up. It's ok to realize there are limitations and you might not know everything.

Edit: Frack sake I'm rambling and making too many edits. Time for me to finish for the night before I go further down the rabbit hole of theoretical concepts.

Avatar image for ghostodoofus2
Ghostodoofus2

16926

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

He needed to rest after creating the earth and the sun, he needed Adam's rib to create Eve. Powerful for sure, but his procedures are still bound to logic.

Avatar image for dernman
dernman

36557

Forum Posts

10092

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 9

#31  Edited By dernman
@ghostodoofus2 said:

He needed to rest after creating the earth and the sun, he needed Adam's rib to create Eve. Powerful for sure, but his procedures are still bound to logic.

What makes you think they were bound by logic and not just him making a choice to do something a certain way for reasons only he knows? You're making assumptions here. Hell we don't even know if that which is written is what really happened. Could be made up.

Another thing. Let's explore the term bind. I can bind my arm in scotch tape. I could use only the bound arm to break the binding easily. Meaning though I was bound it's not something that could hold me.

Avatar image for cj_the_dj
cj_the_dj

1167

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#32  Edited By cj_the_dj

@seventhmoon:

This is essentially a repeat of your previous argument, without any consideration for the point I was making. Everything you're claiming is predicated on certain axioms and logical inferences, but it seems strangely paradoxical to use logic to determine the properties of a world that does not have it. And, in the end, you've been led to some questionably consistent claims:

If something isn't logical, then it doesn't exist.

[...]

Of course, fiction can be illogical, but it can't be debated if so...

Would this not grant non-logical things consistent properties (i.e. non-existence, inability to be debated, etc.)? Of course, one could always dispute whether or not these examples can be defined as consistent properties, or else raise some other dispute, but whether or not you're able to do this well is another matter.

P.S.

And no, going beyond the laws of physics and altering the laws of our reality is not necessarily the same as altering logic itself, as nothing suggests the laws of our reality are on the level of immutable laws of logic.

This is far from a trivial epistemological claim, but to not spread myself too thin, I think I'll leave it for now.

Avatar image for seventhmoon
SeventhMoon

1565

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#33  Edited By SeventhMoon  Online

@cj_the_dj: This is essentially a repeat of your previous argument, without any consideration for the point

I get your point just fine. You didn't get mine.

Logic existing is self-evident, so you do not need more inference. Logic dictates nothing can be illogical and logic is self-evidently true, so there is no need to prove it in the same way I don't need to prove to you that you exist.

As for fiction, it is to be assumed that logic exist there unless blatantly proven otherwise. And no, going FTL or some shit like that doesn't qualify for being illogical.

Would this not grant non-logical things consistent properties (i.e. non-existence, inability to be debated, etc.)?

Illogical things are not things at all. They don't exist and cannot exist, so they have no properties of any kind. They are purely hypotheticals. Their lack of existence is not an argument for the consistency of the illogical, as them not existing is due to logic not allowing them to.

The thing is too that you keep questioning the consistency of my claims, meaning you are trying to use logic here in this discussion.

@ghostodoofus2 said:

He needed to rest after creating the earth and the sun, he needed Adam's rib to create Eve. Powerful for sure, but his procedures are still bound to logic.

You're talking about Yahweh, who isn't omnipotent at all. Not a good example of logical omnipotence there.

Avatar image for famousroman
Famousroman

1582

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

I think this god in question wouldn't give anybody any good answers. To abide by something that they made would just mean they can change the logic of it to make themselves right if they were wrong somehow, you know? But the Christian God is logical, very much so. He seems to almost always explains flaws and fallacies in things and people and ideas.

Avatar image for dshipp17
dshipp17

7748

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#35  Edited By dshipp17
@dernman said:
@steve40l said:

@dernman: Not following logic is a tad bit more absurd than follow logic though isn't it? Logic is also extremely flexible. I'm not saying they're bound by a 3d plane or anything of the sort, just that a set of rules can be applied

Sorry I missed your post. You got lost in the shuffle when I was ignoring another user.

To answer Follow what logic? Based on what? Nothing but assumptions and theory from ancient ideas passed down in stories from people who barely understood much science? We have no real substantial guidelines to measure against to go by so no concept has more weight than the other. A god existing that is bound by logic is no more reasonable than one who's not bound by logic and depending on info we don't have it might the opposite. We don't know anything with any real bases to form a system of logic with. Is the idea god even logical by human standards? Is god even real? Do you have anything to prove that? Based on what is he real or logical? Any evidence or hints that he could be real and couldn't be attributed to something else that we know or possible don't know of? So what exactly are you basing your theoretical logic on and why does it have more bases than other theoretical forms of logic. There is no extra because it's all extra.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not trying disprove god. I want to believe there is a god. I'd be happier if there was a god. I even tend to defend those who are believers way more than those who are not to make the point if you followed my posting history on the subject of god I wouldn't be able to convince you that I wasn't one. For me personally though, I just don't see anything that couldn't be chalked up to something else or characterized as unknown. So to me it's silly to say there are any rules to go by. There is no guide or bases to form anything. It's all up in the air equally.

That's my agnostic atheism. Meaning I don't believe because we humans don't know shit, probably never will know shit or even possibly ever could know shit when it comes to GOD.

Edit: I hope that help you understand. I tried to put it in another way but I felt I just kept repeating myself. If's you still don't understand feel free to break down what you don't understand and what you think I'm saying. Maybe that will help me give you something better for you.

"Sorry I missed your post. You got lost in the shuffle when I was ignoring another user."

Then why would any reasonable minded person even pay attention to this, since the poster is clearly talking about Christianity? You basically have no earthly idea what you're babbling about here as you've cut yourself off from anyone who's studied this topic, for a career in some cases. This person just wants to hear you speak not in understanding the question.

The Boy in Ariana Grande’s ‘The Boy Is Mine’ Video Is Hers —

Loading Video...

Avatar image for outlaw_omni
OutLaw_Omni

55

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

NO!

And YES, because God is what we make of It!

Avatar image for steve40l
Steve40L

5295

Forum Posts

144

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@dernman:

If that were to happen, our logic would prove to be illogical.

I don't think so, I'm just presuming that the concept of logic, no matter in what form, is probably applicable to everything in the universe. I do agree with you here, it would be impossible to properly apply rules to someone who created the rules if nothing suggests they're bound by them in the first place.

You're definitely right. It's pretty bold to say we'd be able to fully understand something like a god.

You definitely rambled a bit but it was really fun to read. Thank you for the conversation

Avatar image for teaparty88
TeaParty88

477

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

An omnipotent being can do whatever it wants. It’s bound by nothing.

So, can God create a stone that's too heavy for him to lift?

Avatar image for dernman
dernman

36557

Forum Posts

10092

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 9

@steve40l said:

@dernman:

If that were to happen, our logic would prove to be illogical.

Right that's why you have to always accept what you believe you know could be wrong and what we think is logic isn't the same thing as truth. It's just us limited beings trying to makes something work for us with our meager and faulty capabilities.

You definitely rambled a bit but it was really fun to read. Thank you for the conversation

No problem. I like thinking about things like this. My friends use to make jokes about getting high and talking about things like this and I'd joke I didn't need something to alter my mind it was naturally altered. :p

Avatar image for steve40l
Steve40L

5295

Forum Posts

144

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@dernman: Definitely. I think I often times come off as a bit confident in my beliefs which conflates with arrogance. It's definitely something I, as well as many others could work on.

lol, my friends have asked me if I'm on drugs for similar reasons

Avatar image for warstars1977
WarStars1977

564

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@warstars1977 said:

An omnipotent being can do whatever it wants. It’s bound by nothing.

So, can God create a stone that's too heavy for him to lift?

Ah yes, the school yard paradox that does considerable heavy lifting to prove that an omnipotent being does not and cannot exist.

Avatar image for dshipp17
dshipp17

7748

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#42  Edited By dshipp17
@warstars1977 said:
@teaparty88 said:
@warstars1977 said:

An omnipotent being can do whatever it wants. It’s bound by nothing.

So, can God create a stone that's too heavy for him to lift?

Ah yes, the school yard paradox that does considerable heavy lifting to prove that an omnipotent being does not and cannot exist.

Actually, the term, omnipotent, isn't even Biblical so why struggle over it? Here, you're trying to apply logic to God, but God isn't bound by the human concept known as logic; Jesus said getting a rich man in Heaven would be like trying to fit a camel through a needle hole, but nothing is impossible for God; thus, God can solve this problem even though you can't. God is so much more powerful than anything else that it really doesn't matter; this is just ignorant nonsense that means nothing to establishing God's existence. If you're informed then you can know that God exists. People like this just need to stop wasting their own time; the Bible speaks of scoffers in the last days.

Proverbs 1:22: How long, ye simple ones, will ye love simplicity? and the scorners delight in their scorning, and fools hate knowledge?

Ariana Grande's Bringing "the boy is mine" to The Tonight Show Starring Jimmy Fallon

Loading Video...
Loading Video...

Avatar image for warstars1977
WarStars1977

564

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@dshipp17: Omnipotent merely means all powerful, so that’s splitting hairs. God is either all powerful, or he isn’t. That’s black and white.

If god is all powerful, then god isn’t bound by logic. If not, then god is bound by logic.

Avatar image for dshipp17
dshipp17

7748

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#44  Edited By dshipp17
@warstars1977 said:

@dshipp17: Omnipotent merely means all powerful, so that’s splitting hairs. God is either all powerful, or he isn’t. That’s black and white.

If god is all powerful, then god isn’t bound by logic. If not, then god is bound by logic.

Jesus' ability to perform miracles has already demonstrated that God isn't bound by logic, as demonstrated in post 17; look through post 17; it's already been established that God isn't bound by logic via miracles (e.g. creation was another miracle). The point that someone is trying to make is just silly: why would God even bother with making something that He can't lift (e.g. basically 1/0 equally something is nonsense; God isn't in the business of nonsense and foolishness; the Bible says that God isn't mocked)?

Woman initially pronounced dead, but found alive at Nebraska funeral home has passed away

Masters Of The Universe: What We Know About Amazon's Live-Action He-Man Movie

Loading Video...
Loading Video...
Avatar image for warstars1977
WarStars1977

564

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@dshipp17: The real question is why would an omnipotent being bother with anything, especially creating a species that infuriates it so much and so often?

Avatar image for dshipp17
dshipp17

7748

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#46  Edited By dshipp17
@warstars1977 said:

@dshipp17: The real question is why would an omnipotent being bother with anything, especially creating a species that infuriates it so much and so often?

“The real question is why would an omnipotent being bother with anything, especially creating a species that infuriates it so much and so often?”

Sorry for my delay, as most times, my responses have to be guided by the Holy Spirit; it's not to be rude. The prior established that God doesn't have to be mocked, in order to show that He isn't bound by the human construct that is logic, where such is either not fully understood to start with or, more likely, something that's too simplistic for trying to understand God totally divorced from the Bible and Christianity; the Bible is the best vehicle by which to understand God; during this Age of Disposition of Grace, Jesus is the only path towards God; the Holy Spirit then aids in understanding God for the specific individual in question; the Holy Spirit is available for all who are open to receiving the free Gift of Eternal Salvation; receiving this Gift comes from hearing the Gospel of Jesus Christ, trusting that it happened, and then asking to be set free of your sins by trusting that Jesus saved you from your sins by giving His life or you on Calvary, even though He also rose from the dead.

God's tendency to get furious about the buildup of sins was satisfied by the sacrifice of Jesus; thus, trying to associate the Old Testament with the present is a common error; we now live in the Age of Dispensation of Grace; all power for governing humanity was transferred over to Jesus; basically, we're living, as in humanity, on the patience and mercy of Jesus, Who paid the price for us to relieve us of our sins; Jesus wants to save as many of us as possible before the inevitable judgment that has to come.

Built into your question is the lack of a realization that the Fall had to come with consequences and what those consequences are; the Fall allowed sin and death to enter God's perfect creation; sin and death then removed perfection and what God had originally created; Satan caused this to happen, but everything still rested on the free will of all involved. Jesus intends to take those of us who have accepted the Free Gift of Eternal Salvation over to the perfect creation that God had originally intended; we'll even get new bodies before we enter that intended creation.

Now, your question as to why God created us in the first place has a very deep and profound meaning, perhaps one I may ultimately not be able to answer correctly but I'll try; it all has to start with what the Bible tells and shows us about God. The Bible tells us that God created us in His image. We were created for God's pleasure, see Colossians 1 and Revelation 4:11. Jesus made it such that God now calls those of us who've accepted the Free Gift of Eternal Salvation friends, John 15:14-15.

Watch Ariana Grande, Jimmy Fallon & The Roots' Futuristic "No More Tears Left to Cry"

46th annual Superman Celebration is this weekend in Metropolis

American Idol star Mandisa’s cause of death disclosed

Loading Video...
Loading Video...

Avatar image for sundown89
Sundown89

2534

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@jaylinsboyfrend: Are you saying that just because some of us are atheists (and thus a global minority) that our opinions are not as valid as yours?

Avatar image for abstractrapeal
AbstractRApeal

63

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#49  Edited By AbstractRApeal

The term God is a multifaceted terminology that can be interpreted and also bounded to a wide kind of philosophies, it doesn't have to be strictly affiliated to any man-made writings such as the Bible, the Quran, or any other religion which are defined as theologies.

The term God itself can be found within the limitations that science itself, cannot answer, for example:

  1. Einstein's General theory of relativity can only explain the behavior of the universe at great scales, through gravitational fields that are continuous by nature, but this has been proven to be incompatible with Quantum Mechanics, which are seen at a subatomic level, where the GR collapses.
  2. Science still cannot fully define nor deconstruct what consciousness is or means. In fact science is still so archaic, that it cannot deny nor approve the scary philosophy of "Solipsism".
  3. Science still has not fully discovered the mysteries of birth and death which is partially bound to the potential existence of the soul and the full definition of consciousness itself.
Avatar image for steve40l
Steve40L

5295

Forum Posts

144

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@abstractrapeal: what doe you mean the "mysteries" of birth and death? They're not very mysterious, in fact, we kind of have a full understanding of them. We also have a pretty good idea on how consciousness works, most of the people arguing otherwise just kind say "the brain is more than the sum of it's parts" vaguely, but then don't explain what aspect of it hasn't been found and mapped on the brain.