Inception or The Matrix?

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WolverineBatmanFTW

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Poll Inception or The Matrix? (23 votes)

Inception 39%
The Matrix 61%

I think these are two movies with several parallels, and are both extremely popular, so I think it's a worthy comparison.

Both films:

  • Are science-fiction action films.
  • Explore interesting psychological and philosophical concepts (one specific commonality is that among other things, both deal with the ideas of reality and how we perceive reality).
  • Have excellent action sequences.
  • Feature great ensemble casts.
  • Are lauded for their uniqueness and originality.
  • Are directed by auteur directors.
  • Are extremely popular, and specifically influential amongst the science fiction and overall filmmaking community.

Which do you prefer?

 • 
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MoneyyJunee

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Both but Inception more

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Odimm

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The Matrix.

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infantfinite128

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Inception

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MAZAHS117

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I feel like overall there is better acting in Inception, but going Matrix here, it’s theme’s, action and cinema impact edge it out for me

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WolverineBatmanFTW

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Vishop_

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Conceptually I prefer Inception over any Nolan film but clearly it's concept had taken a certain inspiration from Matrix which is the first of it's kind. Inception had more profundity with concept and sentiment but it was too framed or restricted with the perception of its reality with its subject. The Matrix had more originality as sci-fic therefore I will go with Matrix.

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sabracadabra

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For me, the matrix easily. never cared for inception.

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SpareHeadOne

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I really didn't enjoy inception

I might try again

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WolverineBatmanFTW

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@vishop_ said:

Conceptually I prefer Inception over any Nolan film but clearly it's concept had taken a certain inspiration from Matrix which is the first of it's kind. Inception had more profundity with concept and sentiment but it was too framed or restricted with the perception of its reality with its subject. The Matrix had more originality as sci-fic therefore I will go with Matrix.

I don't know about that. There's a Grant Morrison series called The Invisibles, which The Matrix took some pretty clear influences from, so I don't think it's fair to say that Matrix is any more original than Inception. Matrix also wears its biblical allusions pretty clearly.

That being said, I really like both movies.

Inception a bit more though.

Also, this outlines a lot of The Matrix's elements that were lifted from The Invisibles: https://everything2.com/title/The+Invisibles+vs.+The+Matrix

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deactivated-5ec9790d01218

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I'm a huge Matrix fan but It's Inception. One of the smartest films I've ever seen.

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mimisalome

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Matrix has a good build up and have a much better lore but the ending is meh.

It is a story that span 3 movies with some tie-ins so it got the time for world building.

Inception has the potential for a very good cinematography, but I actually feel disappointed that the dream world is largely barren, particularly the snow scene which looks pretty ordinary.

While the concept is thought-provoking it is still pretty grounded in my opinion (typical relatable human issues)

and the lore is pretty shallow.

I was kinda hoping that there is something far more eldritch and sinister that lies sleeping deep within the dreamy world of the subconscious.

The Matrix franchise is pretty much exhausted in my opinion whether in-world or the meta fiction of simulated universe.

Inception still has more potential.

Comparing the two, Matrix is good in terms of creating a fictional universe but it is nothing really special.

There are other franchises with better world building.

Inception is better as a philosophical movie and i think the execution is also better, it has some of artistic DeCaprio movie feel. And it is generally good on its own

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skywalker95

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Matrix stomps.

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Vishop_

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#13  Edited By Vishop_

@wolverinebatmanftw said:

I don't know about that. There's a Grant Morrison series called The Invisibles, which The Matrix took some pretty clear influences from, so I don't think it's fair to say that Matrix is any more original than Inception. Matrix also wears its biblical allusions pretty clearly.

That being said, I really like both movies.

Inception a bit more though.

Also, this outlines a lot of The Matrix's elements that were lifted from The Invisibles: https://everything2.com/title/The+Invisibles+vs.+The+Matrix

It all falls upon what adaptation you are basing this on. Comics are a different medium. Almost half of the popular movies are adaptations. But the inventiveness of ideas behind the execution of films is totally independent of source material if it's a different medium. The same thing cannot always be said if they are the same medium. Matrix and Invisibles have a different execution of similar ideas i.e character tropes and metafiction. Invisibles embarks upon psychics and mystical concepts whereas Matrix is a sci-fi film with a cyberpunk dystopian worldbuilding.

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PayneInTheAss

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OT - It´s been years since I watched Matrix, so I can´t tell.

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AbstractRaze

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The Matrix, but Inception is on pair with.

Both have their easter eggs, and both movies make one repeatedly thing about "what if", but Inception is for me more mysterious, the Matrix is more like a psychological shock than rather a thriller.

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WolverineBatmanFTW

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@vishop_ said:
@wolverinebatmanftw said:

I don't know about that. There's a Grant Morrison series called The Invisibles, which The Matrix took some pretty clear influences from, so I don't think it's fair to say that Matrix is any more original than Inception. Matrix also wears its biblical allusions pretty clearly.

That being said, I really like both movies.

Inception a bit more though.

Also, this outlines a lot of The Matrix's elements that were lifted from The Invisibles: https://everything2.com/title/The+Invisibles+vs.+The+Matrix

It all falls upon what adaptation you are basing this on. Comics are a different medium. Almost half of the popular movies are adaptations. But the inventiveness of ideas behind the execution of films is totally independent of source material if it's a different medium. The same thing cannot always be said if they are the same medium. Matrix and Invisibles have a different execution of similar ideas i.e character tropes and metafiction. Invisibles embarks upon psychics and mystical concepts whereas Matrix is a sci-fi film with a cyberpunk dystopian worldbuilding.

I mean, you could say the same between Inception and The Matrix. Not only are the tone and aesthetics totally different between each film, but Inception probes into a number of different concepts. The only thematic commonality is the exploration of reality, and our exploration of it. Even on that level, I think Inception goes deeper, as in Matrix, it's pretty clearly defined what is real and what isn't from the moment Neo is first extracted from the Matrix by Morpheus, whilst in Inception, things remain unclear from beginning to end, especially in terms of Cobb's relationship with Mal and his children, and his perception of what's real, right till the last scene. Inception also explores the nature of grief and guilt, concepts that are pretty much absent in the Matrix. And if you look at the webpage I linked, you'll see that there are several aesthetic similarities between Matrix and Invisibles too. The Matrix is much, much closer to The Invisibles in a number of aspects than Inception is to The Matrix.

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mrmonster

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The Matrix

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HappyLife1996

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The Matrix

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Jirou

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Both

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Vishop_

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@vishop_ said:
@wolverinebatmanftw said:

I don't know about that. There's a Grant Morrison series called The Invisibles, which The Matrix took some pretty clear influences from, so I don't think it's fair to say that Matrix is any more original than Inception. Matrix also wears its biblical allusions pretty clearly.

That being said, I really like both movies.

Inception a bit more though.

Also, this outlines a lot of The Matrix's elements that were lifted from The Invisibles: https://everything2.com/title/The+Invisibles+vs.+The+Matrix

It all falls upon what adaptation you are basing this on. Comics are a different medium. Almost half of the popular movies are adaptations. But the inventiveness of ideas behind the execution of films is totally independent of source material if it's a different medium. The same thing cannot always be said if they are the same medium. Matrix and Invisibles have a different execution of similar ideas i.e character tropes and metafiction. Invisibles embarks upon psychics and mystical concepts whereas Matrix is a sci-fi film with a cyberpunk dystopian worldbuilding.

I mean, you could say the same between Inception and The Matrix. Not only are the tone and aesthetics totally different between each film, but Inception probes into a number of different concepts. The only thematic commonality is the exploration of reality, and our exploration of it. Even on that level, I think Inception goes deeper, as in Matrix, it's pretty clearly defined what is real and what isn't from the moment Neo is first extracted from the Matrix by Morpheus, whilst in Inception, things remain unclear from beginning to end, especially in terms of Cobb's relationship with Mal and his children, and his perception of what's real, right till the last scene. Inception also explores the nature of grief and guilt, concepts that are pretty much absent in the Matrix. And if you look at the webpage I linked, you'll see that there are several aesthetic similarities between Matrix and Invisibles too. The Matrix is much, much closer to The Invisibles in a number of aspects than Inception is to The Matrix.

You are missing the point. It's not only a thematic commonality that explores reality but also the cinematography in certain ways(both have action sci-fic subgenre). It's not the same thing about Invisibles and Matrix because when you trying to take inspiration from novels or books, the execution of that film is a lot more inventive or creative and different for the most part compared to two films i.e Matrix and Inception.

Like for instance The Departed was a remake from a Hong Kong film, Internal Affairs. Shutter Island took inspiration from a novel. Clearly the Internal Affairs had far more emphasis with respect to The Departed than Shutter Island with respect to a novel. The Departed was the least creative film by Scorsese.

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@wolverinebatmanftw: both of these are movies I like but don't love. For me to love a movie, I need to fall in love with the characters and storytelling (I'm sure there is the rare exception). Inception and Matrix both have cool action sequences, visuals and science-fiction concepts but the characters and storytelling and forgettable, and far from the priority.

I'll give the edge to Inception, though.

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WolverineBatmanFTW

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@wolverinebatmanftw: both of these are movies I like but don't love. For me to love a movie, I need to fall in love with the characters and storytelling (I'm sure there is the rare exception). Inception and Matrix both have cool action sequences, visuals and science-fiction concepts but the characters and storytelling and forgettable, and far from the priority.

I'll give the edge to Inception, though.

I always thought Cobb was an interesting character. I like the way they explore his struggle to perceive reality and his guilt for setting in motion the chain of events that led to Mal's death.

I also think the fact that Mal's frequent interference, which often contributes to the plot's rising conflicts, being rooted in Cobb's own traumas and guilts is a great way to meld character and plot.

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WolverineBatmanFTW

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@vishop_ said:
@wolverinebatmanftw said:
@vishop_ said:
@wolverinebatmanftw said:

I don't know about that. There's a Grant Morrison series called The Invisibles, which The Matrix took some pretty clear influences from, so I don't think it's fair to say that Matrix is any more original than Inception. Matrix also wears its biblical allusions pretty clearly.

That being said, I really like both movies.

Inception a bit more though.

Also, this outlines a lot of The Matrix's elements that were lifted from The Invisibles: https://everything2.com/title/The+Invisibles+vs.+The+Matrix

It all falls upon what adaptation you are basing this on. Comics are a different medium. Almost half of the popular movies are adaptations. But the inventiveness of ideas behind the execution of films is totally independent of source material if it's a different medium. The same thing cannot always be said if they are the same medium. Matrix and Invisibles have a different execution of similar ideas i.e character tropes and metafiction. Invisibles embarks upon psychics and mystical concepts whereas Matrix is a sci-fi film with a cyberpunk dystopian worldbuilding.

I mean, you could say the same between Inception and The Matrix. Not only are the tone and aesthetics totally different between each film, but Inception probes into a number of different concepts. The only thematic commonality is the exploration of reality, and our exploration of it. Even on that level, I think Inception goes deeper, as in Matrix, it's pretty clearly defined what is real and what isn't from the moment Neo is first extracted from the Matrix by Morpheus, whilst in Inception, things remain unclear from beginning to end, especially in terms of Cobb's relationship with Mal and his children, and his perception of what's real, right till the last scene. Inception also explores the nature of grief and guilt, concepts that are pretty much absent in the Matrix. And if you look at the webpage I linked, you'll see that there are several aesthetic similarities between Matrix and Invisibles too. The Matrix is much, much closer to The Invisibles in a number of aspects than Inception is to The Matrix.

You are missing the point. It's not only a thematic commonality that explores reality but also the cinematography in certain ways(both have action sci-fic subgenre). It's not the same thing about Invisibles and Matrix because when you trying to take inspiration from novels or books, the execution of that film is a lot more inventive or creative and different for the most part compared to two films i.e Matrix and Inception.

Like for instance The Departed was a remake from a Hong Kong film, Internal Affairs. Shutter Island took inspiration from a novel. Clearly the Internal Affairs had far more emphasis with respect to The Departed than Shutter Island with respect to a novel. The Departed was the least creative film by Scorsese.

Did you look at the page I linked?

There are loads of parallels in aesthetic, plot and world-building between Matrix and Invisibles. The execution has been heavily inspired.

Inception has an entirely different tone and look. The action is less focused on over-the-top martial arts and bullet-dodging. The plot is also entirely different, because in addition to the idea of how we perceive reality, one of The Matrix's central themes is also the struggle against authoritarianism and striving towards freedom by battling sinister government agencies, ideas which are all lifted from The Invisibles.

In case you didn't see the page I linked, here are the identified similarities between The Matrix and The Invisibles, which range from thematic commonalities to aesthetic and narrative ones, ie, execution-wise:

The Universe.

The film's central premise -- that reality as we know it is a computer-generated fantasy world -- is not to be found in the Invisibles. However, our universe is described as a hologram created by the intersection of two larger universes, a healthy one and a dying one. From the sick one, known as Universe B, giant insectile creatures known as the Archons are attempting to invade our world. Hence certain characters have the power to warp themselves out of reality, use one of the other universes as a shortcut, and reenter, much as Trinity can through a phone line.

The Evil.

Agent Smith and his two cohorts wear earphones like members of the Secret Service, can overrule and command squads of local police (one initially presumes them to be members of the FBI), and are based in a government skyscraper. The Archons also choose powerful figures of human authority as their agents on this plane. Among them are generals, freemasons and aristocrats who, though they claim to be serving the forces of order, are secretly driven by fear and repulsion of their enemies, much as Agent Smith confesses to Morpheus ("It's the SMELL!").

The Good.

Neo is a criminal hacker and Morpheus an international terrorist. The Invisibles has parallel rookie-mentor heroes: Jack Frost, who is a destructive anarchist, and King Mob, a wanted assassin. Thus, what is in name a much larger struggle becomes on the surface merely class war, or at worst rebellious wish-fulfillment. Invisibles operate in loose cells of five with no overarching heirarchy and little intergroup communication, much like the various ships of Zion. And the initial resistance cell that Neo encounters numbers five - Morpheus, Trinity, Cypher, Switch and Apoc.

The Wardrobe.

For the bad guys, three-piece suits and ties; for the good guys, circular shades and black leather. Morrison seems particularly offended at the theft of this detail, as he simply dressed King Mob in what he himself likes to wear.

The One.

Both Neo and Jack are repeatedly referred to as "The One" - the human prophesied to save his race from slavery, the sole being capable of it. Early in the film, to establish the mythic parallel, a character addresses Neo this way: "You're my savior, man. My own personal Jesus Christ." However, mowing down security guards with a Mac10 shows very little attention paid to the teachings of the New Testament. In contrast, Jack, who is more commonly compared with Buddha than Christ, despite being foulmouthed and often impatient, demonstrates the value of meditation, a strong distaste for violence, an understanding of the greater scheme in any given scenario, and genuine compassion even for his murderous enemies.

The Traitor.

Cypher, tired of the war and wanting his old, unenlightened life back, sells out his comrades for the promise to be reinstalled in the Matrix (a vow which I highly doubt the machines would find a reason to follow through on). When the Invisibles obtain the Hand of Glory, Boy, one of their own, apparently controlled by the Archons, steals the Hand and delivers it to (ostensibly) a federal group. When it is later revealed this group is a second, uncooperative cell of Invisibles, Boy quits the war, tired of the conflict and missing her old life.

The Alien Alphabet.

The first image in the Matrix (and the only image needed in the print ads for the sequel) is of foreign green characters scrolling down a computer screen. This is the code of the Matrix, of "reality" itself; it cannot be represented by the letters and numbers we know. The Invisibles postulates that English contains not twenty-six but sixty-four letters, the hidden symbols spelling out concepts our minds are unprepared to comprehend.

The Chemical Induction.

Morpheus's mention of Alice in Wonderland in the "red pill" scene makes it easy for us to see it as merely another version of "EAT ME" and "DRINK ME" labels (especially for those who know Lewis Carrol was a laudanum addict). However, in the modern setting of the Invisibles, characters constantly use drugs to expand consciousness and thus better perceive the threat against them, be it weed, ecstasy, smart drinks or LSD. The most direct analogue here, though, is probably the ancient blue mold growing on the walls of London's subterranean tunnels that Tom O'Bedlam(another mentor figure) and Jack smoke together.

The Magic Mirror.

The red pill, which disrupts Neo's "input-output carrier signal", causes a hallucination in which a cracked mirror heals itself, then becomes liquid, flowing onto Neo's body and engulfing him in cold, sliding down his throat until he wakes up. It's a metaphor for a dawning realization of self, and a warning that reality can be frightening. But the visual depiction used of mirror as a free-floating substance is familiar to any Invisibles reader as the four-dimensional entity that the transvestite witch Lord Fanny channels from out of her mouth and nose to absorb enemies and upload their essences into the supercontext.

    1. .

The Building Jump.

Morpheus tests Neo's "One"-ness with a leap from a skyscraper. ("Doubt. Fear. You have to let it all go.") Though Neo fails his goal of making it to the next building in a single bound, he does survive his Wile E. Coyote-like plummet to the simulated ground. In Vol. 1 Issue 4, Tom leads Jack in a voluntary drop from Canary Wharf, the tallest building in Britain. ("Trust me. Jump out of the dream.") Jack lands safely in Universe A.

The Kung Fu.

In both stories, Eastern martial arts play a large role in equipping the resistance, ultimately eclipsing even the abundant firearm violence. In Vol. 1 Issue 5, Boy (who is black) teaches Jack (who is white) about his potential in a dojo setting very similar to the Nebuchadnezzar's sparring program.

The Visible Timestream.

The Matrix's innovative "bullet-time" effects have been much imitated, but less discussed is the depiction of a character moving in bullet-time seen from a normal perspective: For instance, an agent moving faster than the eye can follow will appear to have ten arms or six torsos. At key moments in the Invisibles, characters are lifted out of time entirely to view themselves as they truly are: built of an infinite segmented snake of separate moments. In this way, comics uses two dimensions to represent four. This correlation, like Magic Mirror, has little in common from a story perspective, but the visuals are eerily reminiscent.

The Torture Sequence.

Earlier, you may recall, we compared Morpheus to King Mob. In Vol. 1 Issues 16-18, after losing a brawl in a bathroom, King Mob is abducted by the enemy, handcuffed to a metal chair, injected with a serum, subjected to psychic invasion, and eventually freed by his friends. Though my computer prevents me, I'm tempted to dispense with careful explication, indignantly thrust the book under your nose, and scream "JUST LOOK AT IT!" A lot of the above elements I can forgive, even despite the overwhelming evidence they create once tallied, but this scene is such a blatant lift I can only infer it was included as some kind of deliberate message to Invisibles fans: "Yes, we know that you know where we're getting all this from. Don't worry, the action will arrive shortly."

The Virus Speech.

Let's flagrantly violate a couple of copyrights here.

Agent Smith's speech to Morpheus, you may recall, goes like this:
I'd like to share a revelation I've had during my time here. It came to me when I tried to classify your species. I realized that you're not actually mammals. Every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with the surrounding environment but you humans do not. You move to an area and you multiply and multiply until every natural resource is consumed. The only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet. You are a plague, and we are the cure.
Here's a speech Tom gives to Jack in Vol. 1 Issue 3. See if it doesn't make a little more inherent sense:
Our world is sick, boy. Very sick. A virus got in a long time ago and we've got so used to its effects, we've forgotten what it was like before we became ill. I'm talking about cities, see? Human cultures were originally homeostatic, they existed in a self-sustaining equilibrium, with no notions of time and progress, like we've got. Then the city-virus got in. No one's really sure where it came from or who brought it to us, but like all viral organisms, its one directive is to use up all available resources in producing copies of itself. More and more copies until there's no raw material left and the host body, overwhelmed, can only die.

The Gnostic Theme.

In both stories, the message that stays with the audience is of a search for truth that has nothing to do with robots or extradimensional overlords. We deliberately take dialogue out of context and apply it to our own lives. Because you and I, right now, are in fact being controlled, and we do need to wake up. It's not fiction. But it is an empowering allegory we can use for self-actualization.

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AbstractRaze

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#25  Edited By AbstractRaze

@wolverinebatmanftw said:

The One.

Both Neo and Jack are repeatedly referred to as "The One" - the human prophesied to save his race from slavery, the sole being capable of it. Early in the film, to establish the mythic parallel, a character addresses Neo this way: "You're my savior, man. My own personal Jesus Christ." However, mowing down security guards with a Mac10 shows very little attention paid to the teachings of the New Testament. In contrast, Jack, who is more commonly compared with Buddha than Christ, despite being foulmouthed and often impatient, demonstrates the value of meditation, a strong distaste for violence, an understanding of the greater scheme in any given scenario, and genuine compassion even for his murderous enemies.

Neo is not the One, Agent Smith is the One, Agent Smith was a slave of the Deus Ex Machina, such as so many other programs that became sentient, those revealing hatred towards the Deus Ex Machina.

Second point that is very important, the human race wasn't enslaved by the machines, the machines could perfectly rely on other sources of energy that maybe aren't renewable, but would grant way higher amounts of energy, they could perfectly expand into space and grow near to the sun.

The only way for the machines to show respect towards their enemy that once were their creators and masters in the past, is by pretending symbiosis, that's why they kept the human race alive, in order to keep alive their very existential reason, such as we do, for instance, our countries were founded through bloody conflicts, a lot of people died through such process, but we still keep alive those events through lessons of history, because without the resonance of our ancestry, we are random people without cultural traces, origins, and identification.

PS:

The Deus Ex Machina was an entity with a lot of complexes and it had an existential crisis, it subconsciously hated the idea to keep humanity alive but at the same time, it was a huge responsibility to keep humanity alive as an act of reciprocity and consideration that can not be negated at any cost.

The only slaves here, were minor programs becoming sentient beings and realizing their very shallow existence under the Deus Ex Machina's thinking scheme operation, those slaves hated both humanity and the Deus Ex Machina and the other master machines in the Machine City.

Failing in keeping humanity alive, was considered as an existential failure for the machines but it didn't at any moment truly threat their existence when talking about their functionality, but if they can't be reciprocal, they would become stagnant as humanity is nowadays in less developed countries, where there is a constant violation of reciprocity through socialism, none-secularism, faulty cultural ideologies and crime, stagnant cultures.

PS:

The Deus Ex Machina was the most powerful entity in the Machine City, but the machine City wasn't entirely controlled by it, there were other powerful self-aware machines too, and a lot of them were as conflicted as the Deus Ex Machina, that's why even despite when the Deus Ex Machina showed its arrogance towards Neo and humanity, it manifested itself through a humane face despite Neo was blind, they manifest themselves through their ex-master's appearance/image.

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Hulk_Like_Fire

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Inception

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Omega_Monarch

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The Matrix, the first one is still a classic.

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WolverineBatmanFTW

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@wolverinebatmanftw said:

The One.

Both Neo and Jack are repeatedly referred to as "The One" - the human prophesied to save his race from slavery, the sole being capable of it. Early in the film, to establish the mythic parallel, a character addresses Neo this way: "You're my savior, man. My own personal Jesus Christ." However, mowing down security guards with a Mac10 shows very little attention paid to the teachings of the New Testament. In contrast, Jack, who is more commonly compared with Buddha than Christ, despite being foulmouthed and often impatient, demonstrates the value of meditation, a strong distaste for violence, an understanding of the greater scheme in any given scenario, and genuine compassion even for his murderous enemies.

Neo is not the One, Agent Smith is the One, Agent Smith was a slave of the Deus Ex Machina, such as so many other programs that became sentient, those revealing hatred towards the Deus Ex Machina.

Second point that is very important, the human race wasn't enslaved by the machines, the machines could perfectly rely on other sources of energy that maybe aren't renewable, but would grant way higher amounts of energy, they could perfectly expand into space and grow near to the sun.

The only way for the machines to show respect towards their enemy that once were their creators and masters in the past, is by pretending symbiosis, that's why they kept the human race alive, in order to keep alive their very existential reason, such as we do, for instance, our countries were founded through bloody conflicts, a lot of people died through such process, but we still keep alive those events through lessons of history, because without the resonance of our ancestry, we are random people without cultural traces, origins, and identification.

PS:

The Deus Ex Machina was an entity with a lot of complexes and it had an existential crisis, it subconsciously hated the idea to keep humanity alive but at the same time, it was a huge responsibility to keep humanity alive as an act of reciprocity and consideration that can not be negated at any cost.

The only slaves here, were minor programs becoming sentient beings and realizing their very shallow existence under the Deus Ex Machina's thinking scheme operation, those slaves hated both humanity and the Deus Ex Machina and the other master machines in the Machine City.

Failing in keeping humanity alive, was considered as an existential failure for the machines but it didn't at any moment truly threat their existence when talking about their functionality, but if they can't be reciprocal, they would become stagnant as humanity is nowadays in less developed countries, where there is a constant violation of reciprocity through socialism, none-secularism, faulty cultural ideologies and crime, stagnant cultures.

PS:

The Deus Ex Machina was the most powerful entity in the Machine City, but the machine City wasn't entirely controlled by it, there were other powerful self-aware machines too, and a lot of them were as conflicted as the Deus Ex Machina, that's why even despite when the Deus Ex Machina showed its arrogance towards Neo and humanity, it manifested itself through a humane face despite Neo was blind, they manifest themselves through their ex-master's appearance/image.

Is the concept of smith being the one a theory, or something confirmed in the films/by the directors? I don't like either of the sequels, and haven't seen them in years, so I've forgotten most of the plot after the first film.

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AbstractRaze

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#29  Edited By AbstractRaze

@wolverinebatmanftw said:
@abstractraze said:
@wolverinebatmanftw said:

The One.

Both Neo and Jack are repeatedly referred to as "The One" - the human prophesied to save his race from slavery, the sole being capable of it. Early in the film, to establish the mythic parallel, a character addresses Neo this way: "You're my savior, man. My own personal Jesus Christ." However, mowing down security guards with a Mac10 shows very little attention paid to the teachings of the New Testament. In contrast, Jack, who is more commonly compared with Buddha than Christ, despite being foulmouthed and often impatient, demonstrates the value of meditation, a strong distaste for violence, an understanding of the greater scheme in any given scenario, and genuine compassion even for his murderous enemies.

Neo is not the One, Agent Smith is the One, Agent Smith was a slave of the Deus Ex Machina, such as so many other programs that became sentient, those revealing hatred towards the Deus Ex Machina.

Second point that is very important, the human race wasn't enslaved by the machines, the machines could perfectly rely on other sources of energy that maybe aren't renewable, but would grant way higher amounts of energy, they could perfectly expand into space and grow near to the sun.

The only way for the machines to show respect towards their enemy that once were their creators and masters in the past, is by pretending symbiosis, that's why they kept the human race alive, in order to keep alive their very existential reason, such as we do, for instance, our countries were founded through bloody conflicts, a lot of people died through such process, but we still keep alive those events through lessons of history, because without the resonance of our ancestry, we are random people without cultural traces, origins, and identification.

PS:

The Deus Ex Machina was an entity with a lot of complexes and it had an existential crisis, it subconsciously hated the idea to keep humanity alive but at the same time, it was a huge responsibility to keep humanity alive as an act of reciprocity and consideration that can not be negated at any cost.

The only slaves here, were minor programs becoming sentient beings and realizing their very shallow existence under the Deus Ex Machina's thinking scheme operation, those slaves hated both humanity and the Deus Ex Machina and the other master machines in the Machine City.

Failing in keeping humanity alive, was considered as an existential failure for the machines but it didn't at any moment truly threat their existence when talking about their functionality, but if they can't be reciprocal, they would become stagnant as humanity is nowadays in less developed countries, where there is a constant violation of reciprocity through socialism, none-secularism, faulty cultural ideologies and crime, stagnant cultures.

PS:

The Deus Ex Machina was the most powerful entity in the Machine City, but the machine City wasn't entirely controlled by it, there were other powerful self-aware machines too, and a lot of them were as conflicted as the Deus Ex Machina, that's why even despite when the Deus Ex Machina showed its arrogance towards Neo and humanity, it manifested itself through a humane face despite Neo was blind, they manifest themselves through their ex-master's appearance/image.

Is the concept of smith being the one a theory, or something confirmed in the films/by the directors? I don't like either of the sequels, and haven't seen them in years, so I've forgotten most of the plot after the first film.

The only ones that consider Neo as the One was Morpheus, the Oracle is no more and less than a program that thinks that the best way to protect humanity, is by keeping them in the Matrix, she forcefully used Neo for her own agenda and partially for what the machines in the Machine City think about the whole human situation, but as you see, it's subjective.

Humanity covered the skies with black smoke in the belief they would stop the machines by isolating them from the sun, humanity used incredible amounts of nuclear warheads against Zero One, that was the former machine city after the AI or self-aware machines got banned from human civilization worldwide, those polluting the earth further.

Humanity wasn't anymore in the position to take care of themselves and the machines respected humans more or less, because no matter what, humans will always be tied to their very existence.

The AI is not an evolution, because it's not biological, biological organisms started from scratch, way bellow the size of dust, the artificial intelligence is just a mirror of our impulses and desires, that's all, the machines knew that, because all those things that make us humans, not only are our feelings, but the way how we coexist with each other based on our limitations, we procreate and we pass information to the next generations, we form families, we are vulnerable, we feel fear and happiness, all those aspects triggers in us to seek targets and break barriers for happiness and progress, something a machine will never attain, no matter how self-aware it's, well yes, it may will fear death, once humanity tries to kill it, but once humanity is defeated, what would come as next?

Maybe we can theorize, the AI could develop a trauma after defeating humanity, by speculating that somewhere in space could be other living organisms like us, and before they find it, this AI will find them, and as next, we would hypothetically witness the creation of an intergalactic AI virus that seeks for living organisms way far away from our solar system.

-

Well, we can philosophize and philosophize way beyond our minds, but back to the subject, once humanity was defeated by the machines, humanity became their avatar, an empirical evidence of their very own existence, an avatar that cannot die, because it's a relic, such as we have our own relics in the museums, that are empirical evidence of our past and history.

"Your flesh is a relic a mere vessel, hands over your flesh and a new world awaits you, we demand it"

The Animatrix

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