Hypothesis: Should children and teachers from the U.S be equipped with military grade weaponry for self-protection?

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GodSaveMeNow

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Poll: Hypothesis: Should children and teachers from the U.S be equipped with military grade weaponry for self-protection? (178 votes)

Yes 15%
No 85%

Proposal: So much school shootings of late in the USA, so little self responsibility to protect oneself.

Nuclear deterrence has resulted in relative global peace ever since World War 2. If schoolchildren and teachers are equipped with the basic rifles and grenades, the likelihood of an attack will drastically decrease due to the drastically increased fear of a costly aftermath.

The government could spend some money to issue a rifle with 5 rounds for each student over the age of 12, for an entire school cohort. Every start of the day each student must fill up a form to be issued the weapon and rounds. If the rifle is too big for a child to handle (puberty issues), a pistol can be issued instead. At the end of the day, each classroom is to be locked down and every single student must rounded up and have their rifles and rounds accounted for and returned. The armourer will check carefully before unlocking the classroom for the students to leave. Every classroom should have 2 grenades in an accessible glass box behind the teacher's table, in the extreme case of a terrorist attack. Weapon maintenance will happen once a year for the school to check and replace defective weapons and rounds. Each child will be responsible to do weekly checks that their weapons are not defective.

This may sound costly but if the rifles and rounds are purchased in bulk with old weapons recycled from the military and police, the NRA can work out significant savings with their partial sponsorship via obligatory advertisements displayed in schools and kindergartens.

The teachers should hold monthly drills with students on how to handle their guns and show free advertisement videos of guns every morning. Old rifles and pistols that are no longer needed or used by the U.S military and police can be rounded up and given to the schools to save costs, where again children are to be educated with and self-responsible to fix any damages to these old weapons. This should help balance the NRA and government's budget, increasing future generation's interest in firearms and ensuring a good stream of revenue.

Each child should always feel safe and secure when going to school, and grow up to be self responsible for their own well being.

Discuss.

NOTE: I do NOT belong to the NRA.

 • 
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Dernman

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#201  Edited By Dernman

@super_saiyan_devil said:
@castiel_18 said:

This thread should've been locked a long time ago.

Agreed. This is making the US somehow look even dumber.

sigh You're really taking an insane trolling thread as an indicator of Americans? Come one.

Though I myself would like to know why this hasn't been locked yet when legit threads of been locked for less.

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Wilkins17

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#202  Edited By Wilkins17

@valor_175: oh yeah that would have been tottaly the same if the guy that shot up the flordia school had a baseball bat insted of a gun. FYI

He would have gotten the crap kick out of him if he had any of those things you just mentioned.

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Azureus

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What kinda thread?

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ignVela

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Idiots are those who thinks all Americans should be armed and idiots are those who takes these dumb threads as a sign that Americans are stupid.

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Cable_Extreme

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#205  Edited By Cable_Extreme

@castiel_18: your concerns aren’t shown in schools who currently have armed teachers. You craft strawmen to support your argument.

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Cable_Extreme

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@revan-: what happens if a student over powers an armed police officer? A strawmen isn’t a good objection when there are currently schools who have armed teachers without occurrences like these.

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Revan-

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@revan-: what happens if a student over powers an armed police officer? A strawmen isn’t a good objection when there are currently schools who have armed teachers without occurrences like these.

Except Officers often have a accompanying officer with them, have a taser, pepper spray and a baton as well, and are trained in h2h and self defense. Not to mention people are in general more fearful around officers. None of those teachers are. What's stopping a delinquent student from doing this?

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Cable_Extreme

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#208  Edited By Cable_Extreme

@revan-: what is stopping a student from doing that to an officer?

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Revan-

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@revan-: what is stopping a student from doing that to an officer?

I said this before.

Except Officers often have a accompanying officer with them, have a taser, pepper spray and a baton as well, and are trained in h2h and self defense. Not to mention people are in general more fearful around officers. None of those teachers are

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Cable_Extreme

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@revan-: you didn’t answer my question, nothing stops a student from overpowering an officer as officers have been overpowered before. Not only that but officers are open carrying firearms where they are clearly visible.

Teachers who carry, carry concealed, no one will know who is carrying nor where they are carrying on thier body. Teachers are already concealed carrying in many places and yet we don’t see your strawmen argument actually happen.

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Revan-

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@cable_extreme: "hey lets just disregard waht you said and contiune with muh rhetoric"

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@castiel_18: your concerns aren’t shown in schools who currently have armed teachers. You craft strawmen to support your argument.

I believe those schools lack any common sense, but they made their decisions. We can agree to disagree.

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Cable_Extreme

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@revan-: your post is hypocritical.

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Cable_Extreme

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@castiel_18: you may think that but they aren’t the schools falling victim to mass shootings are they?

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Lunacyde

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#215  Edited By Lunacyde  Moderator

It is my opinion that we should educate our citizens in proper firearm handling, use, maintenance, storage, and safety from a young age. Instilling positive firearms behaviors and stressing safety and respect for firearms as a tool at a young age would have strong positive effects on curbing gun violence in my opinion. Much like cars, firearms should be regulated, and users should be educated, trained, stringently tested, and licensed.

In my proposal students in public school systems would be required to participate in firearms courses every few years starting at age 8 (unless the parents have strong cause for the course to be waived). Of course the content and interaction with actual firearms will be highly dependent upon age level and skill. At 8 years old they would start out learning basic safety (never point at another, keep finger off trigger until prepared to shoot, always check to make sure it is unloaded, use of safeties, etc. From there the next age group would be 11 or 12. They would refresh what they already learned about safety and start to learn about security and maintenance. (How to properly disassembled and clean, properly store, properly store ammunition, the working parts of a gun, how guns and ammunition work, etc). Then again at 14-15 they should refresh on all that was previously learned and begin to work with actual firearms (removed from ammunition and with firing pins or other key components removed for safety. Lastly there should be an elective class at 18 where in culmination they can undergo a stringent examination on everything they have learned, in addition to a range test one on one with a trained instructor. They would only accept students who have demonstrated responsibility and general understanding of safety principles in previous years. Upon passing the examination they would be eligible for a license granted by the state to earn certain classes of firearms. Periodic re-training and testing would be required to keep their license, along with psychological evaluation. Licenses could then be revoked for committing certain crimes, or not following certain safety procedures and laws regarding the use, maintenance, and secure

As a responsible gun owner I do not want to see the rights of law abiding Americans trampled, but I also understand the need for common sense regulation and education, based loosely upon what we see being effective in nations like Switzerland, or with items such as vehicles. I believe that this training/education/regulation will significantly diminish both intentional and accidental firearms violence in schools and society as a whole.

As for teachers being armed to deter violence, I do not believe that it is the most effective method, nor does it come without its own risks. It may be part of the solution, and I stress may, but we will need to see the efficacy of such programs in action before being able to make such determinations.

Students should absolutely not be armed throughout the normal course of a school-day.

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I would love to shoot all my bullies tbh

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@cable_extreme said:

@castiel_18: you may think that but they aren’t the schools falling victim to mass shootings are they?

Hypothetically speaking, if I was going to do a school shooting, I'd be more confident at doing it in a school that has civilian teachers w/access to a gun and yet no police/security than a school where none of the teachers have access to a gun yet it has a lot of security and law enforcement.

So giving teachers access to a gun doesn't deter me more than if that school had security and police protection.

Point of the matter is I wouldn't feel comfortable in allowing my child to go to a school where civilian teachers and students have easy access to a gun or guns.

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Cable_Extreme

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@lunacyde: how would your proposal curb intentional gun violence? It would help unintentional discharges and such, but it would not effect intentional shooters one bit.

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Cable_Extreme

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#219  Edited By Cable_Extreme

@castiel_18: why not both? I’m not saying arm teachers and take out police officers.

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@cable_extreme said:

@castiel_18: why not both? I’m not saying arm teachers and take out police officers.

I just don't think that both are necessary because security guards and resource officers are enough.

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Lunacyde

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#222  Edited By Lunacyde  Moderator

@cable_extreme: Part of the problem is the negative gun culture that glorifies guns and violence. Teaching them to respect guns and life and molding attitudes towards firearms and responsible actions and the precious nature of life early on should make children less likely to grow up to use guns violently. Countries like Switzerland with healthier gun cultures don't suffer from nearly as much gun violence despite having significant amounts of firearms available to the public.

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Paytience

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"Military Grade Weaponry" is kind of a made up term.

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Paytience

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Also, a teacher recently mishandled their gun in a classroom and injured 3 students. True story.

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Cable_Extreme

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#225  Edited By Cable_Extreme

@lunacyde said:

@cable_extreme: Part of the problem is the negative gun culture that glorifies guns and violence. Teaching them to respect guns and life and molding attitudes towards firearms and responsible actions and the precious nature of life early on should make children less likely to grow up to use guns violently. Countries like Switzerland with healthier gun cultures don't suffer from nearly as much gun violence despite having significant amounts of firearms available to the public.

Switzerland is a healthier culture in general, they do not have the gang ridden high poverty crime zones we have in many of our urban areas. We have a huge gang and poverty crime problem that creates outliers for the rest of the nation. It is why urban areas contain vastly more crime in general.

Compared to Switzerland, crime in all aspects are lower compared to the U.S., this is because it is smaller than a lot of states in the united states which means it is much easier to manage. They are surrounded by other respectable nations which reduce amount of contraband items that are smuggled in. Above all, poverty usually correlates with crime according to the bureau of justice statistics.

This is why we see many urban areas in high poverty also being an outlier in crime rates. Certain cities can have more than 90% of crimes within that state and mostly within poverty stricken urban areas. Switzerland does not have this problem.

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Paytience

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Also, a teacher recently mishandled their gun in a classroom and injured 3 students. True story.

@cable_extreme: that's not the question

When you have ever needed your gun? So people are suffering because of your paranoia and disregard for the government

So your basically saying that the US Government isn't capable of protecting civilians on its own soil?

I don't get why your bringing up different amendments when they're not relevant to this discussion and both are protected by international UN law and both fundamentally won't change with time because they're basic rights, having a semi automatic gun capable of mowing down dozens of people shouldn't be your right

My rights are not something that you or anyone else gets to decide. My rights are SELF-EVIDENT and actualized at birth. One of these chief rights is the right to defense of myself and property. Asking the "U.S. Government to protect it's civilians on it's own soil" is nonsensical and counter to the issue, considering that the second amendment exists as a DETERRENT to the government itself violating said rights.
This is not something that is debatable.

As for the thread...what about this? Can I own this?

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Chimeroid

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@paytience: Omg, that is so cute, you actually believe your second amendment in any way scares the government when it comes to armed conflict?

OT - The big issue is your culture. In serbia EVERYONE has a gun. However, they are not toys. In USA - they are just toys that are louder. There is no respect for them and no fear. You can go online and watch kids shoot multiple firearms into a line of condoms (not kidding, literally) because that is what they think of guns. That they are toys. I think frivolous use of guns should be punishable by law.

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Cable_Extreme

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@cable_extreme said:

@castiel_18: why not both? I’m not saying arm teachers and take out police officers.

I just don't think that both are necessary because security guards and resource officers are enough.

Not for the Florida shooting.

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@cable_extreme said:
@castiel_18 said:
@cable_extreme said:

@castiel_18: why not both? I’m not saying arm teachers and take out police officers.

I just don't think that both are necessary because security guards and resource officers are enough.

Not for the Florida shooting.

The high school's resource officer was very incompetent in his job, but his critical mistakes don't speak for the rest of law enforcement. And protection of the school was inadequate because it only had one resource officer. But I've been advocating for far more security and police protection of schools than simply one resource officer.

Had the resource officer did his job better and actually confronted the school shooter, it could've been a different story.

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Lunacyde

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#230  Edited By Lunacyde  Moderator

@cable_extreme said:
@lunacyde said:

@cable_extreme: Part of the problem is the negative gun culture that glorifies guns and violence. Teaching them to respect guns and life and molding attitudes towards firearms and responsible actions and the precious nature of life early on should make children less likely to grow up to use guns violently. Countries like Switzerland with healthier gun cultures don't suffer from nearly as much gun violence despite having significant amounts of firearms available to the public.

Switzerland is a healthier culture in general, they do not have the gang ridden high poverty crime zones we have in many of our urban areas. We have a huge gang and poverty crime problem that creates outliers for the rest of the nation. It is why urban areas contain vastly more crime in general.

Compared to Switzerland, crime in all aspects are lower compared to the U.S., this is because it is smaller than a lot of states in the united states which means it is much easier to manage. They are surrounded by other respectable nations which reduce amount of contraband items that are smuggled in. Above all, poverty usually correlates with crime according to the bureau of justice statistics.

This is why we see many urban areas in high poverty also being an outlier in crime rates. Certain cities can have more than 90% of crimes within that state and mostly within poverty stricken urban areas. Switzerland does not have this problem.

I'm aware of all of the things you are saying. However, your rebuttal is a strawman because we are not talking about a phenomena that correlates with those trends you describe. My response was specifically about in-school shootings.

Most of these high profile school shootings do not take place in typical " high crime" urban areas. The characteristics and dynamics of urban crime do not typically apply to in-school shootings like in Columbine, Newtown, Parkland, Great Mills, etc.

I'm not saying it would stop the violence altogether, but I have no reason to believe it would not diminish violent incidents where firearms are used. A lot of the shooters we are talking about suffer from never being taught these important lessons. In conjunction with pushing better mental health services and getting people to identify alienated individuals and try to help them I think it will have a greater impact than strapping teachers. Why do you figure that it will not have a positive impact and what is your proposal?

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Wut

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No gun should have to suffer the indignity of being held by the grubby hands of a child. Guns deserve better treatment. Guns deserve respect and to be properly cleaned and maintained.

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Outside_85

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@lunacyde said:

@cable_extreme: Part of the problem is the negative gun culture that glorifies guns and violence. Teaching them to respect guns and life and molding attitudes towards firearms and responsible actions and the precious nature of life early on should make children less likely to grow up to use guns violently. Countries like Switzerland with healthier gun cultures don't suffer from nearly as much gun violence despite having significant amounts of firearms available to the public.

Mind if I ask this? But as far as I am aware Switzerland it is actually mandatory to have a gun around, since Switzerland doesn't have much of an army, but that it's also then required by law to keep that weapon in a locked cabinet? Am I not right in saying the locked cabinet is not mandatory in the US?

Point of this is that, if in the US guns are technically just lying around, it's easy for kids to get hold of daddy's gun and bring it to school... also, isn't the US topping the list of accidental gun deaths and injury of kids?

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Cable_Extreme

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@lunacyde said:

@cable_extreme: Part of the problem is the negative gun culture that glorifies guns and violence. Teaching them to respect guns and life and molding attitudes towards firearms and responsible actions and the precious nature of life early on should make children less likely to grow up to use guns violently. Countries like Switzerland with healthier gun cultures don't suffer from nearly as much gun violence despite having significant amounts of firearms available to the public.

Mind if I ask this? But as far as I am aware Switzerland it is actually mandatory to have a gun around, since Switzerland doesn't have much of an army, but that it's also then required by law to keep that weapon in a locked cabinet? Am I not right in saying the locked cabinet is not mandatory in the US?

Point of this is that, if in the US guns are technically just lying around, it's easy for kids to get hold of daddy's gun and bring it to school... also, isn't the US topping the list of accidental gun deaths and injury of kids?

It is against the law to leave guns accessible to children. They have to be locked.

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deactivated-5b0a7ade504a7

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You bet your buns they should.

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Paytience

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Oh hey...cops in Sacramento today shot a kid 25 times from a helicopter, for being in his grandma's backyard.
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THAT'S why I own a gun.

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jackiplier

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Uhm... I know this is a hypothesis, but even that... why?

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deactivated-5b2121a0a9a00

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Ffs why was this revived. This is dumbest most stupidest idea to ever be proposed on this website.

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Kevd4wg

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Considering that one of my teachers threatened to kill me yesterday, I'm gonna vote no

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ironbart

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I'm pretty sure trump only wanted to arm teachers and not students, no?

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TheHierarchy

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Thanos doesn't even need to snap his fingers for America, overpopulation solves itself.

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Jgames

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Hopefully those 11% of people who voted were trolling and press it by accident.

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Avatar_of_Gaea

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If adults can't be responsible with guns why give them to teens? Adding more guns to a gun problem is ass backwards of you ask me.

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universeichigo1

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Weapons itself are the problem why give them to children, so they kill theirselves?

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deactivated-5b17f1b84ea5f

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lmao I could just imagine my 4-foot 10th-grade algebra teacher whipping out a shotgun and just mowing people down.

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Brainiactic

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Sure, and while we're at it, lets have everyone bathes in gas in case of a fire.

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deactivated-5b84aca03eae8

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This is so ridiculous.

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@cable_extreme said:
@castiel_18 said:
@cable_extreme said:

@castiel_18: why not both? I’m not saying arm teachers and take out police officers.

I just don't think that both are necessary because security guards and resource officers are enough.

Not for the Florida shooting.

The high school's resource officer was very incompetent in his job, but his critical mistakes don't speak for the rest of law enforcement. And protection of the school was inadequate because it only had one resource officer. But I've been advocating for far more security and police protection of schools than simply one resource officer.

Had the resource officer did his job better and actually confronted the school shooter, it could've been a different story.

My old highschool has metal detectors at the door a armed security. It seems to be doing better now.

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deactivated-5e09a6b06793e

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Absolutely not. That's like handing out free heroin to fix the drug problem.