How powerful is Warhammer 40k as a Verse ?

anyone?

are there any universal or galaxy level dudes in this verse?

No, and that's a big difference as well. That's like grain of sand level versus planet level.

@snicker-snack: so how powerful are they ?

@hyoname: Planet level telepathy and some other hax like time manipulation are the most impressive stuff I know of. The chaos gods are only at their most powerful in their own realms where they can do pretty much anything. Physically speaking I think 40k characters are overrated. I think MCU Thanos would give most of the Primarchs a good battle if it was just a physical duel without their hax.

@snicker-snack: in other words they are Glass canons

Ok cool

@hyoname: Okay after actually I just remembered a huge feat for a Primarch. Konrad crashed onto a planet called Nostramo when he was more or less a baby in a pod. This was pretty much a city planet like Coruscant from Star Wars except the city makes Gotham look like a lovely gated community. His pod smashed through multiple layers of city, the planet's crust, and almost made it to the core. The natives filled in the hole with rubble and such and Konrad just swam through the mantle of the planet and dug to the surface. He wasn't fully developed at this point, like I said he was pretty much a baby.

Depends on what you mean by 'verse'. As a sci-fi faction, they kinda serve as a gatekeeper from 'upper mid end' to the 'higher end'. Akin to the Star Wars Galactic Empire in that regard. Some factions in 40k are higher tho, like the Necrons are a high tier faction {Time Travel, Dimensional Travel, etc} same as the Forerunners from Halo are [Although not Xeelee or Culture high].

If you mean like.. strongest individuals? Chaos Gods, God-Emperor and the C'tan would be the highest. Highest we've ever seen of the C'tan is solar system where they can collapse a solar system into a black hole 'in an instant'. However, the C'tan are broken up into 'shards' thanks to the Necrons who defeated them. [C'tan were the Necrons gods, known as Star Gods, they were betrayed at their moment of triumph and the Necrons broke them up into pieces because trying to destroy them is... not.. not good, bad things happen. So if you see the 'Nightbringer!' it isn't the Nightbringer but a tiny fragment of what it used to be, theoretically it would be possible to bring the shards together and maybe make it again. Strongest c'tan was the Void Dragon. IF you know anything about 40k, he is kind of the secret god of the Tech Priest of Mars. A large shard on mars was defeated by the God Emperor].

God-Emperor is harder to scale because he hasn't shown as much, but he is Magnus the Red on a lot of steroids. Best feat I can think of off the top of my head is he caused a warp storm [Storm of the Emperor's Wrath] that covered a large section of the galaxy and is still going after 5,000 years [Not talking a few solar systems, but a sizable chunk of the galaxy is shrouded in it]. Now, if he actually did it is debatable but, whatever.

Chaos Gods can do whatever they want in their own dimension and I suppose, if you only really know Marvel, would be like a weird baby between Abstracts and Hell Lords.

So... depends on what you mean. IIRC, God-Emperor is roughly equated to a Sky Father level in marvel terms in most debating sections on CV.

@snicker-snack:

The reason that feat is impressive is because Nostramo's crust is made of Adamantium, one of the strongest materials in the 40k universe, and tends to be the stuff used in the armor of the largest tanks and what not. Even Space Marine power armor only has a bit of adamantium, its mostly ceramite. As a baby, yes, he smashed into the planet so hard he made a massive hole in said adamantium crust and then crawled out of it. This hole was large enough that the Night Lord fleet would later mass scatter Nostramo by firing at this massive hole [Because, again, adamantium is strong as heck so trying to blast through it would have been a pain] to hit the core.

On Batman in 40k, both Kurze and his brother Corax are batman, Corax is 'true' Batman while Konrad Kurze is the urban legion of Batman [One is a noble hero who uses the shadows to his advantage to meet out justice, the other is the avatar of vengeance who is ruthless and terrifying]

On the rest of what you said:

The only primarch that can time stop is Magnus the Red. He also has galactic level TP. Not planetary. He can manifest psychic avatars of himself across the galaxy and can even mindrape someone from said other side of the galaxy. He has a stupid amount of other abilities as well.

Primarchs have incredible durability. Even Space Marines have incredible durability to the point one had half his face melted off, was cut in half and was still alive.

MCU Thanos loses to Primarchs not because of Hax [And again, only Magnus and Lorgar have a lot of hax, Sang and Kurze only have Precog... Although Vulkan is technically immortal, so that may count], but because they are hilariously faster then him. So he gets blitzed and cut to shreds by power weapons.

I'd say 40k is a Mid to high tier verse, as with most universes it has low level civilisations and high level civilisations.

Yes, the Chaos Gods within the warp are easily universal, a whole C'tan should be around multi-solar system, peak Emperor should be star level, with galaxy-wide TP.

There's also the Cacodominus, who controlled around 1,000 solar systems with his TP.

@hyoname: People who know about WM40K are @fullmetalemprah , @decaf_wizard , @wut

WADDAYA WANT

Uh, Kurze is like batman on meth bruh. Even the urban legends of Batman aren't that bad outside some of the weird, strange AU's. The Batman Who Laughs would be the closest Batman to full on unstable, late Horus Heresy, Night Haunter Kurze

@decaf_wizard: Yea, but that is like normal 40k stuff to take something and make it a bit more..... grimdark. Even Corax while being the 'true' batman doesn't exactly shy from mass murderstomping things.

@wut: Well obviously, but the problem is that Batman and Kurze kinda had......very different goals both in the public perception and otherwise. And Kurze was EXACLY what the public thought he was, at least the Night Haunter was

@decaf_wizard: Doesn't really change what I said tho. The 'urban legend' of batman being some kind of demonic monster out to kill you for justice is a thing, and obviously the inspiration for Kurze. Just because Kurze is more extreme then the DC version of said 'urban legend' doesn't effect that because of course he was going to be more extreme.

Just like Corax is a more extreme version of Batman as, last I checked, Batman wasn't fine with the wholesale murder of entire sapient species.

pretty difficult to place the verse mainly becuase in some things like the chaos gods,god emperor,ctan,necrons are pretty strong but in others most people tend to highball their abilites,on a matter of speaking this is my personal thinking and ranking compared to other sci fi/fiction universes

Dr Who>star wars>star trek>warhammer>halo>mass effect

@decaf_wizard: can you tell how powerful the verse actually is ?

@el_mago:

Dr Who>star wars>star trek>warhammer>halo>mass effect

and even worse you place Star trek above 40k?...... K.

for star wars its becuase wutzek,the bedlam spirits and the celestials

for trek its becuase Q

@el_mago: Which are all dwarfed by the chaos gods....... Q again dwarfed by the chaos gods......

@el_mago: Yea, like Abeloth, the mother of the Bedlam spirits who lost to Luke and Darth Krayt.. Yea.. no... the Bedlam Spirits are certainly not noteworthy on such a scale.

@wut: abeloth is not the mother of the bedlam spririts WTF,also krayt was basically triple shotted by her and luke was only able to kill her on massive cirscumtances(aka force light better know as super saiyan luke)....

i still cannot think how one of them can defeat the bedlam or even Q especially considering their omnipotent... something the chaos gods are not,the old ones is a much better choice

@el_mago: Why would the old ones be a better choice.... if the old ones would lose to the chaos gods..... Q being omnipotent has been long talked about and they arent omnipotent. When have the Bedlam spirits snapped universes out of exists...........

@el_mago: Proving the Bedlam, you know, those guys that had to build a special trap to keep Abeloth contained and had to team up to defeat her are omnipotent would be difficult. Also Abeloth > Son or Daughter. It took both of them teaming up to defeat Abeloth.

Or is Abeloth so omnipotent that mere black holes can contain her as they did in the Maw? Or she is DOUBLE omnipotent because it takes TWO omnipotent beings, the Son and the Daughter, to defeat her which means Luke is Omnipotent as well?

See why none of this makes sense? Because it doesn't and she isn't neither are the Bedlam.

How about the Celestials? That race we know next to nothing about and what little we do know comes from in universe speculations. Or, if we give the speculations credence, were defeated and forced to bugger off by Abeloth and the Rakatan rising up against them... whose 'Infinite Empire' was around 500 planets... So... Why, exactly, are the Celestials so potent again? What makes them better then War in Heaven Necrons, or even modern Nercons who have a device capable of destroying the galaxy [and they use it as a gardening tool]?

I could go into how the Q are not, in fact, omnipotent, but that doesn't really matter as I never talked about Star Trek. I talked about Star Wars.

@wut: the ones that keep abeloth trapped were the beings of mortis with the help of the centerpoint station and the kiliks not the bedlam.....

the mother,the daughter the father or even the son are not omnipotent....

celestials are described like this: https://books.google.com.mx/books?id=N3vxX-GDNqIC&pg=PT6&lpg=PT6&dq=essential+guide+to+warfare+prologue&source=bl&ots=u1hWHHo679&sig=ACfU3U2xM_1CE3WzNKv2jjwXCXyx07Cp5w&hl=es&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiNqYfvysLnAhV they never got defeated by the rakatan or by abeloth.....

http://www.starwarstimeline.net/Supernatural_Encounters.htm#_ftnref6

read chapters 23,the epilogue,chapter 26,chapter 28 and chapter 30

pd: are you on drugs?

@el_mago:

Alright, show me them deleting universes, so me why do they die................

Wrong again

Q states it himself. They are indeed Not omnipotent. If they were, they couldn't be depowered, so no its not fanbase its people like urself stating they are when in fact the LORE that you're trying to post here on me with SW says otherwise

in the case of star trek maybe i was wrong then not entirely sure tbh

for star wars read this http://www.starwarstimeline.net/Supernatural_Encounters.htm#Chapter%201:%20Division%20and%20Debate wutzek created the bedlam spirits and granted them omnipotence powers in case you dont know who is wutzek its basically a member of the celestials and the creator of the star wars universe

@el_mago:

I looked into what u read, but what i'm asking maybe I'm just missing it as its entirely possible. I need to see the Celestials and Bedlam spirits destroying universes, not solar systems, not galaxies, universes. Chaos gods do this with utter ease. They literally with a thought kill universes without breaking a sweat

@windshieldwiper: dude the bedlam spirits are the sons /chidren of wutzek a member of the celestial family capable of creating the entire universe of the franchise,without mentioning that the bedlam can tear apart and manipulate time and mass:

When his children learn that Wutzek intends to destroy them, they flee, and Tilotny and Cold Danda Sine together introduce evil into the universe and breed monstrous demigods to plague the galaxy.

Wutzek appears to the spirit of Arhul Hextrophon, who has been killed by beings from Otherspace, and guides him "beyond shadows", where Hextrophon beholds the destiny of the universe and is transfigured into a spiritual being himself.

otherspace: was a pocket dimension beyond both realspace and hyperspace. While it appeared to be a vast expanse of storm-gray nothingness, it did contain colored, swirling nebulae, and stars which were described as "shining holes of darkness."

@el_mago:

Time control is nothing new to warhammer. Magnus the Red can stop time and has stopped time on a planetary level and he is no where near as powerful as the chaos gods and this was pre daemonhood. Time control is nothing new to WH

Time matters little to the chaos gods because they are outside the rules of time

Mass means nothing to chaos as they can control mass and do whatever they want with it. They can be the size of planets, lesser daemons, to beings like the chaos gods that can't exist in a single universe itself

From what I gathered so far is the guys listed suggests they can't wipe universes, not a single universe.How are these guys exactly more powerful than the Chaos gods? Because everything you just listed Chaos has done and done better

@windshieldwiper: dude their basically the sons of the creator of the universe and literally have the same powers have you seen what i post? i never entirely mention they cant destroy universes or suggest something like that.

secondly even if the chaos gods are that powerful their not true omnipotent beings going beyond omnipotence is a fallacy particularly the no limits one

if you want more arguments about this see this thread:

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/warhammer-40k-vs-marveldcstar-warsstar-trek-and-dr-670302/

@el_mago:

I asked, show me of them destroying a universe. If they are the creator of the universe, a universe then they can destroy one surely

Even if, that is their power? That is the quote of what they can do. They are simply more powerful than what you have shown so far. Show me them destroying universes. If you can't then the Chaos gods are simply that much better

bruh the scan of the complete encyclopedia already clarify them to be omnipotent not the other way around

when i see a quote of the chaos gods being omnipotent by the creators then i would believe it

if you wanna see the feats here their are:

https://aminoapps.com/c/comics/page/blog/respect-the-bedlam-spirits/k2iG_uYLqXkMx4je0pjb1v02ZlrBKn

i dont really know why im still debating i will hereby depart this thread

@el_mago: ..... Let me get this straight, you are basing your entire debate on the spirits that showed up once and their only feats can be replicated, and beaten, by modern Necrons? [This also ignores the fact that mere C'tan Shards can also do the same]

The two things they did that were impressive was messing with time and mass. Both things the Necrons do often and neither are unique, there is an entire specialized branch of Crypteks who just play with time [We've seen personal time travel that lets them go back in time to alter things as well as devices that outright alter events in the past to effect the future to ensure certain things never come to pass and do so instantly {Such as altering history so a tyranid invasion never happens in the first place}] Not only do the Necrons have access to this, they can also galaxy wipe. Again. Modern Necrons. Not the War In Heaven Necrons who were more powerful [War in Heaven Necrons had more extreme tech, the Necrons destroyed and erased the knowledge and ability to recreate them because they were so scary the Necrons felt they shouldn't ever exist again. Yes. Guys who can destroy the galaxy and use galaxy destroying map as a gardening tool made things too scary to exist].

I say that their only feats are from relics that don't do much/people don't know what they are, a few big things like a ringworld [Which isn't impressive when you get to the Necron tier] and in-universe speculations and you then turn around and post said in-universe speculations?

You mind actually posting feats that make them so impressive instead of being too lazy to do so? When I post a feat of someone doing X or Y, I don't throw a novel at them and tell them to read it. I quote the passage and show them the specific feat.

@el_mago said:

Be sure to tag me that way ik you responded

Except there is, because not all omnipotents is the same because the writers don't understand what true omnipotents is and neither do you. IT is considered low tier omnipotent for example, yet would u say he could lolstomp the Q race because of this?

It has nothing to do with the creators because i seriously doubt Lucas said that because it was from another writer, once more when I see the spirits can destroy universes then we can talk otherwise they can't and because they can't destroy universes Chaos wins. Like I said Tzeentch with his staff alone rules creation which in turn according to your very flawed logic makes him omnipotent which mean again chaos wins and to add insult to injury we haven't even gotten into the Ork gods who are superior to the Chaos gods

@windshieldwiper heres your tag

The GEOM nuked a solar system with his mind or something.

@hyoname: I got nothing to counter with because he doesn't want to acknowledge that the SW universe is indeed weaker than the 40k Universe

Probably just below Doctor Who, the Xeelee Sequence, and Manifold Trilogy as a whole, although they hilariously outpace Halo and Star Wars (EU and Canon), etc. Chaos hard carries the verse when we get to universal+ which 40k is mostly silent in. They have a few, but its not impressive compared to Doctor Who and Baxter's stuff.

If I remember well the setting of Warhammer 40,000, the God-Emperor of the Mankind is described like an (almost) omnipotent being: even if his body is shattered, he is able to watch what happens in every single planet of the Empire, he give telepathic orders to the higher officials of the Empire, he leads the spaceships in the warps and other things like these. He doesn't seem powerful like he actually is, only because he has to face menaces equally powerful; like the Chaos' Gods. I think he should be at the same level of the Marvel's White Phoenix of the Crown and all the W40k is calibrated on that level of powerful.