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#51 Posted by buttersdaman000 (22880 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah, i'm not reading all that. I skimmed the post you sent, and it just seems as if you're moving goalposts and playing hypothetical whataboutism games.

If you went through all that to prove you have empathy towards the situation and can understand why some black people were offended, even though it seems mundane to you, then simply admit you were misinformed. Trying so hard to defend your position only makes you come off worse.

Are you even capable of trying to understand? Again, it's not me who doesn't have empathy, and you are racist and an ableist for saying such things. "come off worse"? What is wrong with you?

I'm racist for calling you out?? Lol you're going to have to explain that one. It's mind-boggling you even came to that conclusion since I didn't call you racist. And how am I an ableist?? Do you even know what that word means??

Let me break it down for you, in your first post you diminished the impact of being called a monkey since, from your perspective, there's nothing wrong with it. You were ignorant of the racial connotations of a black person being called a monkey, as we see here,

Why is it a bad thing for anyone to be called a monkey, especially considering the fact that many parents of all skin tones already call their kids monkeys, which is obviously the idea used to create this design.

And then you went on to criticize people who were offended of being overly sensitive/stupid, while also implying that the only racism you don't see as superflous is racism you understand i.e when it's obvious, as we see here,

This is the crap that makes charges against racism look superfluous. This is a great example of why some people get sick of listening to people calling "racism" when something isn't to their liking.

It's actually pretty much a sign of complete and utter stupidity to even associate this with racism.

So yeah, I stand by my criticism of you.

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#52 Posted by deactivated-5b60e98a8eb99 (11593 posts) - - Show Bio

Meh

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#53 Posted by RedHeathen (2247 posts) - - Show Bio

@redheathen said:

Yeah, i'm not reading all that. I skimmed the post you sent, and it just seems as if you're moving goalposts and playing hypothetical whataboutism games.

If you went through all that to prove you have empathy towards the situation and can understand why some black people were offended, even though it seems mundane to you, then simply admit you were misinformed. Trying so hard to defend your position only makes you come off worse.

Are you even capable of trying to understand? Again, it's not me who doesn't have empathy, and you are racist and an ableist for saying such things. "come off worse"? What is wrong with you?

I'm racist for calling you out?? Lol you're going to have to explain that one. It's mind-boggling you even came to that conclusion since I didn't call you racist. And how am I an ableist?? Do you even know what that word means??

Let me break it down for you, in your first post you diminished the impact of being called a monkey since, from your perspective, there's nothing wrong with it. You were ignorant of the racial connotations of a black person being called a monkey, as we see here,

Why is it a bad thing for anyone to be called a monkey, especially considering the fact that many parents of all skin tones already call their kids monkeys, which is obviously the idea used to create this design.

And then you went on to criticize people who were offended of being overly sensitive/stupid, while also implying that the only racism you don't see as superflous is racism you understand i.e when it's obvious, as we see here,

This is the crap that makes charges against racism look superfluous. This is a great example of why some people get sick of listening to people calling "racism" when something isn't to their liking.

It's actually pretty much a sign of complete and utter stupidity to even associate this with racism.

So yeah, I stand by my criticism of you.

And I stand by my critcism of you. You are definitely an ableist. You are also just picking fights for the sake of fighting. You have gone back to my first post and use what you want to use out of context, which I have addressed in other posts. You have completely ignored anything else I have had to say. You are defensive and choose not to understand me, and this is why I say you are an ableist. Your attitude is experienced by me and others like me who are called "not similarly abled". You and juiceboks both have not paid attention at all to my intent. and what is it with you two not paying attention to examples i've given about being native? do you know all slurs and epithets used against natives? do you know all the slurs and epithets used against those who aren't disabled? and btw, i never said the photo wsn't racist. i am talking about the people. you and @juiceboks both are apparently of one school of thought while i am of another. my preference is to give a person the chance to learn first. i can't expect another human being to know everything because i myself do not know everything. in reply to jbox - everything i typed out was important and served a purpose. maybe if the two of you could stop being so hateful then perhaps we could have a real dialogue. maybe just stop and ask "what do you mean when you say this?"

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#54 Posted by buttersdaman000 (22880 posts) - - Show Bio

@buttersdaman000 said:
@redheathen said:

Yeah, i'm not reading all that. I skimmed the post you sent, and it just seems as if you're moving goalposts and playing hypothetical whataboutism games.

If you went through all that to prove you have empathy towards the situation and can understand why some black people were offended, even though it seems mundane to you, then simply admit you were misinformed. Trying so hard to defend your position only makes you come off worse.

Are you even capable of trying to understand? Again, it's not me who doesn't have empathy, and you are racist and an ableist for saying such things. "come off worse"? What is wrong with you?

I'm racist for calling you out?? Lol you're going to have to explain that one. It's mind-boggling you even came to that conclusion since I didn't call you racist. And how am I an ableist?? Do you even know what that word means??

Let me break it down for you, in your first post you diminished the impact of being called a monkey since, from your perspective, there's nothing wrong with it. You were ignorant of the racial connotations of a black person being called a monkey, as we see here,

Why is it a bad thing for anyone to be called a monkey, especially considering the fact that many parents of all skin tones already call their kids monkeys, which is obviously the idea used to create this design.

And then you went on to criticize people who were offended of being overly sensitive/stupid, while also implying that the only racism you don't see as superflous is racism you understand i.e when it's obvious, as we see here,

This is the crap that makes charges against racism look superfluous. This is a great example of why some people get sick of listening to people calling "racism" when something isn't to their liking.

It's actually pretty much a sign of complete and utter stupidity to even associate this with racism.

So yeah, I stand by my criticism of you.

And I stand by my critcism of you. You are definitely an ableist. You are also just picking fights for the sake of fighting. You have gone back to my first post and use what you want to use out of context, which I have addressed in other posts. You have completely ignored anything else I have had to say. You are defensive and choose not to understand me, and this is why I say you are an ableist. Your attitude is experienced by me and others like me who are called "not similarly abled". You and juiceboks both have not paid attention at all to my intent. and what is it with you two not paying attention to examples i've given about being native? do you know all slurs and epithets used against natives? do you know all the slurs and epithets used against those who aren't disabled? and btw, i never said the photo wsn't racist. i am talking about the people. you and @juiceboks both are apparently of one school of thought while i am of another. my preference is to give a person the chance to learn first. i can't expect another human being to know everything because i myself do not know everything. in reply to jbox - everything i typed out was important and served a purpose. maybe if the two of you could stop being so hateful then perhaps we could have a real dialogue. maybe just stop and ask "what do you mean when you say this?"

So you meant to call yourself disabled? Lol ok.

Nah, I understand you, which is why I criticized you. You can play the victim all you want, but I haven't said anything out of line.

No, I dont know all the slurs against Native American people. However, here's the difference, if a bunch of Native American people got upset over something they saw as insensitive/racist, I wouldn't say...

This is the crap that makes charges against racism look superfluous. This is a great example of why some people get sick of listening to people calling "racism" when something isn't to their liking.

It's actually pretty much a sign of complete and utter stupidity to even associate this with racism.

Like you did....so.....

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#55 Posted by DeathandGrim (4843 posts) - - Show Bio

USA we know your countries just brimming with racial tension however don't jump down at other countries

I'm mixed race and don't find it offensive at all, no one of my mates do and in fact we were boying off the people who are offended

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner and racism isn't really a issue here but god damn, don't try being your sensitive US crap over here, we don't jude people on skin colour and we don't cry at something that can be twisted into a political agenda

Eh. The US has a track record of outright publicly disrespecting black people in all forms of media, right in the open with hardly any attempts to hide it. And to put it in perspective all that really didn't stop til about... the mid 90s. And it didn't really stop so much as slow down significantly.

I'm not saying it's any fault of H&M to overlook or not know this but if you're gonna market in America it'd be best to at least do a bit of research of the demographic.

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#56 Posted by hyiena (5378 posts) - - Show Bio

Other races call their own kids monkeys all the time.

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#57 Posted by silkyballfro94 (8688 posts) - - Show Bio

This might've been a bad decision by the company to have a black person with a shirt that says monkey on it. Yeah, the word "monkey" has been used and is used in a very negative way to describe black people throughout history and all that. It has a certain association. Maybe they should've seen this coming?

However, I also think it's sad how people automatically connect a racial or negative connotation when a black person and monkey are somehow paired. It's kinda like an acknowledgement that these two are definitively connected or even similar.

Which brings me to another thing I have a bit of a conflict with. For example, I call my little brother a monkey every now and then, because he sorta does look like one and it's funny to tease him with. Or sometimes I might think to myself "wow that dude looks like a damn monkey or gorillla" (due to size/shape of their skull, size/shape of their body, body hair). A few examples of this would be a guy like Brock Lesnar, Henry Rollins, Conor McGregor, John Cena, etc. All white dudes, but if I were to name a couple black dudes. Then people would say that's messed up. So I can't say that in real life and not to black people. Anyway, I guess maybe the point is should we really disallow a pure or innocent association of a black person to a monkey, because of the negative association? Like this shirt? I guess so huh.

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#58 Posted by IronGentleman (9 posts) - - Show Bio

It pains me to be in 2018 and still have stuff like this.

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#59 Posted by Ryokuma100 (1027 posts) - - Show Bio

@ryokuma100 said:

For those who don't know, H&M showcased a darkskinned model wearing a shirt saying "Coolest Monkey in the Jungle." The internet erupted with calling it racist and ignorant.

OKAY SO WHAT YOU ARE SAYING IS RACIST.

Wait wut..?

As a person who is not Caucasian nor African, I do not think it is okay to assume that all "darkskinned" persons fall into the same categories nor that it is okay to force all dark skin people into a category that is the target of a racial slur that never pertained to them.

what are you talking about? I don't really care where you come from. If you have dark skin, I can call you a "darkskinned" person. And I wasn't assuming anything. I was just presenting and describing what I saw.

And maybe I'm reading you or your attitude wrong, so you could possibly explain yourself a little further, I'd really appreciate that.

Have you ever heard of a Native American being called a monkey as an institutionalized (not individual) racial slur? I don't think anyone has. There are A LOT of slurs for natives, but monkey isn't one of them.

Uhh dude. NO. That's not the point I was trying to bring across at all. In fact, I'm leaning towards your ideals when you're basically saying "she like many other 'dark skinned' people may not know the history behind the word." Okay, I agree. But the fact is that she now knows the drama and she knows the backlash, and she still decided to make a stance.

@juiceboks@buttersdaman000 could I not conclude that you are both racist for assuming that all "dark skinned" people should know that there is a slur about "blacks" being monkeys and that all "dark skinned" people are black? There is no need to comment back that you never said that dark skin = black because you both, along with others, immediately began discussing blacks.

As to the OP, @ryokuma100, they should not have posted saying that this photo is racist against "dark skinned" people because it is not. Although the photo is racist toward blacks based on a slur (which I never heard of until now and accept even though I don't understand it <--- these things are not mutually exclusive), it is not racist toward all people with what is considered to be "dark skin" because people who are not of African heritage can have dark skin, and they never have had this slur applied to them.

Okay, and all I'M saying is that I called him darkskinned because that's what he is. I'm not going to always be technical online unless I have to. The kid is dark skinned, so I can call him that.

I'm being technical now because I just had two people jump my butt for no reason other than to do so without first trying to understand. Not understanding is the cause of all this and for the creation of the photo. >> Irony at work in the real time. <<

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#60 Posted by Ryokuma100 (1027 posts) - - Show Bio

UPDATE FOR THOSE WHO CARE

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/protesters-attack-hm-stores-tear-11847020

Image result for h&m store destroyed

H&M reportedly closed down all their stores in South Africa after protests.

There are videos of people tearing down a random H&M store. Throwing down clothes, racks, and other products.

First and Final Update because this is stupid. Over one jacket

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#61 Posted by cattlebattle (17779 posts) - - Show Bio

UPDATE FOR THOSE WHO CARE

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/protesters-attack-hm-stores-tear-11847020

H&M reportedly closed down all their stores in South Africa after protests.

There are videos of people tearing down a random H&M store. Throwing down clothes, racks, and other products.

First and Final Update because this is stupid. Over one jacket

lol. What a bunch of animals...not monkeys though, that would be insensitive.