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#1 Edited by Ryokuma100 (1026 posts) - - Show Bio

For those who don't know, H&M showcased a darkskinned model wearing a shirt saying "Coolest Monkey in the Jungle." The internet erupted with calling it racist and ignorant. H&M has issued an apology and has taken required steps to prevent anymore backlash, which didn't help them much at all since everyone is still down their throats.

Image result for h&m coolest monkey

How do you feel about the situation?

Also, the mother has spoken about it by saying:

"“[I] am the mum, and this is one of hundreds of outfits my son has modeled. Stop crying wolf all the time, [it’s] an unnecessary issue here. Get over it. That’s my son, [I’ve] been to all photoshoots and this was not an exception. Everyone is entitled to their opinion about this… I really don’t understand but not [because I’m] choosing not to, but because it’s not my way of thinking. Sorry."

And sorry if this was done before

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#2 Posted by Ryokuma100 (1026 posts) - - Show Bio

And to state my opinion as a black 19 year old, the situation is stupid.

At what point does the action account as being racist?

If the jacket was modeled with a white boy, there would be no situation. But as soon as it is with a black boy, there's the automatic assumption of racism. It's a shame honestly and the fact that people are still making a big deal out of it even after the mother's stance is crazy.

Unbelievable to say the least

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#3 Posted by gunmetalgrey (4798 posts) - - Show Bio

Those people basically just called everyone else in the world who held no association between the statement on the hoodie and the model wearing it racist and ignorant.

They were offended, the image itself is not offensive. They really need to learn the difference.

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#4 Posted by cattlebattle (17774 posts) - - Show Bio

lol.

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#5 Posted by Farkam (12057 posts) - - Show Bio

Chuckle-worthy at best.

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#6 Edited by MainJP (6522 posts) - - Show Bio

Lmfao.

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#7 Posted by Thekillerklok (10095 posts) - - Show Bio

People actively search out reasons to get offended anymore.

.

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#8 Posted by deactivated-5ab47f6017f34 (3189 posts) - - Show Bio
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#9 Posted by MarvelandDCfan24 (7693 posts) - - Show Bio

It's just Americans the Swedish mother of the child who modeled the sweatshirt said "get over it" people look for things to be offended nowadays especially in the USA

Sweatshirt is pretty dumb tho

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#10 Posted by MAZAHS117 (12925 posts) - - Show Bio

Holy sh!t, that’s for real?! They really ran that? Lol

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#11 Edited by IndomitableRegal (16579 posts) - - Show Bio

I get how this may seem blown out of proportion, but at the same time H&M's marketing team should be socially aware enough to realize the backlash this could cause. Racism is still a prevalent issue, and people are still sensitive to it. Of all the slurs, insults, and bywords directed towards Black people, "monkey" is certainly included (and still used). I don't know about other Black people on this site, but I've experienced racism. I've been followed around a store, I've had people clutch their purses tighter, I've been tailed by the police, etc. It may seem trivial to some, but whoever approved the ad had to have more foresight than this.

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#12 Posted by rahiem9123 (1575 posts) - - Show Bio

I thought this was fake at first still this was at least funny imo.

Online
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#13 Posted by laflux (24735 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't think it was intentional but it was incredibly idiotic for them to think that doing this wouldn't cause controversey. It also shows a lack of cultural awareness imo

What is even more infuriating is people who are not black saying stuff like "Why would you be so offended", "I definitely would wear a coolest cracker in the biscuit box jar", "We call young children cheeky monkeys all the time". Like it is not up to you to decide what Black people can and can't find offensive. If you know Black people who are cool with being called that, great, and more power to them. But if Black People don't like the term, respect thier wishes and understand why this would get under thier skin.

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#14 Posted by Yassassin (7703 posts) - - Show Bio

C'mon, this probably went through a dozen people before being released to the public and no one thought "man people might take it the wrong way". Call it too PC or whatever, but a major business shouldn't be so vacuous and have some sort of self awareness.

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#15 Posted by juiceboks (25005 posts) - - Show Bio

@laflux said:

I don't think it was intentional but it was incredibly idiotic for them to think that doing this wouldn't cause controversey. It also shows a lack of cultural awareness imo

What is even more infuriating is people who are not black saying stuff like "Why would you be so offended", "I definitely would wear a coolest cracker in the biscuit box jar", "We call young children cheeky monkeys all the time". Like it is not up to you to decide what Black people can and can't find offensive. If you know Black people who are cool with being called that, great, and more power to them. But if Black People don't like the term, respect thier wishes and understand why this would get under thier skin.

Pretty much. Unfortunately this is too hard a concept for a lot of people to accept.

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#16 Edited by laflux (24735 posts) - - Show Bio

@juiceboks: Thanks.

On a personal level, While I have experienced racism and discrimination, I think I've only been called something like that once, when I got in a fight with a school friend at the time, and before we could really start to trade blows, teachers interfered.

But, I know others to which Monkey, Ape Gorilla has been something that has been used as a constant slur against them. In Football in the U.K, it was a real problem in the 70's and 80's, hooligans used to throw banana's at Footballers for example. Its largely been stamped out, but remnants still unfortunately remain.

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#17 Posted by IfDCRuledTheWorld (1156 posts) - - Show Bio

So now Americans are actively patrolling ads from overseas looking for things to offend them, we need to find another hobby.

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#18 Posted by the_stegman (40319 posts) - - Show Bio

It's in poor taste.

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#19 Posted by juiceboks (25005 posts) - - Show Bio

@laflux: I've actually been in a similar situation, except the kid used the N-word with the hard R and the teachers didn't interfere until after he was laid out.

Yea those associations haven't ever changed, and it's kinda funny how some think that these racist connotations exist solely in a U.S setting. As if racism towards Black people originated in North America, and that Football example is just one piece of evidence to the contrary.

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#20 Posted by decaf_wizard (17076 posts) - - Show Bio

@farkam said:

Chuckle-worthy at best.

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#21 Posted by decaf_wizard (17076 posts) - - Show Bio

@laflux said:

I don't think it was intentional but it was incredibly idiotic for them to think that doing this wouldn't cause controversey. It also shows a lack of cultural awareness imo

What is even more infuriating is people who are not black saying stuff like "Why would you be so offended", "I definitely would wear a coolest cracker in the biscuit box jar", "We call young children cheeky monkeys all the time". Like it is not up to you to decide what Black people can and can't find offensive. If you know Black people who are cool with being called that, great, and more power to them. But if Black People don't like the term, respect thier wishes and understand why this would get under thier skin.

Pretty much. Unfortunately this is too hard a concept for a lot of people to accept.

People seem to think black people as a whole are a near monolith on issues like this though, with people who are not offended being the exception. Literally every black or brown person I know (and I know a fair few of them) either don't think this is racist, think its funny or think its just lack of awareness with no malicious intent and don't really care.

We even had this discussion in one of my sociology courses the other day and only one black person in the class had any real issue with this. If you feel something is offensive thats entirely fine and I do understand it in this situation. Taking offence for other people as seems to happen lately is just weird

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#22 Posted by Farkam (12057 posts) - - Show Bio

It's an "eyebrow raising" oversight that is being blown out of proportion by histrionic snowflakes. What else is new.

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#23 Posted by Outside_85 (23518 posts) - - Show Bio

There is a part of me that recognizes the problem, and is wondering what the devil the manager was smoking when he let it pass.

But at the same time there is a part of me rolling it's eyes at the people fuming with rage over a shirt. Since we are now living in an age where any misstep is a trigger for someone to fly into a rage along with a hundred other people.

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#24 Posted by deactivated-5a5a76120d2ba (5989 posts) - - Show Bio

Do people in marketing not check over things to see if people will complain about it anymore?

This reminds me of an issue from some odd years back.

When google was trying to come up with something to compete with the IPOD they were going to create the Google Jukebox.

They planned to call it the Gookbox, for short... how did that make it through an entire meeting without someone going, "Wait a second."

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#25 Posted by mrmonster (15971 posts) - - Show Bio

This whole controversy is stupid. I seriously doubt they were trying to make a racist statement through this.

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#26 Posted by FitnessTribesman13 (1622 posts) - - Show Bio

@juiceboks said:
@laflux said:

I don't think it was intentional but it was incredibly idiotic for them to think that doing this wouldn't cause controversey. It also shows a lack of cultural awareness imo

What is even more infuriating is people who are not black saying stuff like "Why would you be so offended", "I definitely would wear a coolest cracker in the biscuit box jar", "We call young children cheeky monkeys all the time". Like it is not up to you to decide what Black people can and can't find offensive. If you know Black people who are cool with being called that, great, and more power to them. But if Black People don't like the term, respect thier wishes and understand why this would get under thier skin.

Pretty much. Unfortunately this is too hard a concept for a lot of people to accept.

People seem to think black people as a whole are a near monolith on issues like this though, with people who are not offended being the exception. Literally every black or brown person I know (and I know a fair few of them) either don't think this is racist, think its funny or think its just lack of awareness with no malicious intent and don't really care.

We even had this discussion in one of my sociology courses the other day and only one black person in the class had any real issue with this. If you feel something is offensive thats entirely fine and I do understand it in this situation. Taking offence for other people as seems to happen lately is just weird

Indeed, there's definitely no universal agreements, even within races. Plenty of Black folks don't get offended nor give the slightest interests in the matter as they find them too petty/insignificant issues. I'm one of these folks, except I'm not Black but I'm another fellow non-White as well.

Then of course, you have Black folks who take offense or just plain disapproval to extreme measures on these issues. There are Black folks who take offense/disapproval at using "Blacks" with an "s" at the end to pluralize them... Whereas you got so many Black folks who'll let you call them the n-word (especially in an endearing fashion) without giving a damn, even if you're not Black LOL

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#27 Posted by RedHeathen (2247 posts) - - Show Bio

I never knew that anyone had ever referred to African Americans as monkeys. A lot of people don't know this because it is not something that is common. I grew up in MS, which is really racist, and never once did I hear this. Most likely, whoever created the ad and whoever approved it were like me and had no clue.

Parents call their kids monkeys all the time. I think that is something universal. I can't imagine that an entire line of clothing was created as a racial statement or stereotype. It's actually pretty much a sign of complete and utter stupidity to even associate this with racism. What's funny is that if this ad had used a white kid as a model, then it could have been attacked because the model was white and not a person of color.

What's even funnier, at least to me, is the fact that humans and monkeys most likely evolved from a common ancestor eons ago. Why is it a bad thing for anyone to be called a monkey, especially considering the fact that many parents of all skin tones already call their kids monkeys, which is obviously the idea used to create this design.

This is the crap that makes charges against racism look superfluous. This is a great example of why some people get sick of listening to people calling "racism" when something isn't to their liking.

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#28 Posted by buttersdaman000 (22878 posts) - - Show Bio

@laflux said:

I don't think it was intentional but it was incredibly idiotic for them to think that doing this wouldn't cause controversey. It also shows a lack of cultural awareness imo

What is even more infuriating is people who are not black saying stuff like "Why would you be so offended", "I definitely would wear a coolest cracker in the biscuit box jar", "We call young children cheeky monkeys all the time". Like it is not up to you to decide what Black people can and can't find offensive. If you know Black people who are cool with being called that, great, and more power to them. But if Black People don't like the term, respect thier wishes and understand why this would get under thier skin.

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#29 Posted by juiceboks (25005 posts) - - Show Bio

@redheathen: If you're honestly unaware of the history of associating Blacks with primates and the dehumanization of them, then that shows more ignorance on your part than anything else.

Don't claim that calling a Black person a monkey isn't racist just because you don't understand why.

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#30 Posted by buttersdaman000 (22878 posts) - - Show Bio

@redheathen: If you're honestly unaware of the history of associating Blacks with primates and the dehumanization of them, then that shows more ignorance on your part than anything else.

Don't claim that calling a Black person a monkey isn't racist just because you don't understand why.

Well he might not be American/Canadian/British so it's possible he just never encountered that slur. If he is, however, then yeah, he's ignorant.

What's worse is that he apparently has no empathy towards why people might find this offensive. He's basically on a slippery slope where nothing can be racist/prejudice unless it's overtly so.

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#31 Posted by juiceboks (25005 posts) - - Show Bio

@buttersdaman000: Well as Laflux pointed out, the racist connotations are still present in other parts of the world like Europe. Racism is a global phenomenon after all. Though I guess depending on where he is, this particular association may be somewhat uncommon.

Yea it's one thing to not understand why something is offensive, but to claim that others shouldn't be offended by it is quite nonsensical. Apparently so long as the ad didn't use the N-word or have a roped noose around the boy's neck as part of the ensemble then everybody is just pulling the race card.

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#32 Posted by deactivated-5b2dd32201ad6 (2795 posts) - - Show Bio

Honestly if I were black I'd wear that for the luls.

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#33 Posted by jashro44 (53847 posts) - - Show Bio

@laflux said:

I don't think it was intentional but it was incredibly idiotic for them to think that doing this wouldn't cause controversey. It also shows a lack of cultural awareness imo

What is even more infuriating is people who are not black saying stuff like "Why would you be so offended", "I definitely would wear a coolest cracker in the biscuit box jar", "We call young children cheeky monkeys all the time". Like it is not up to you to decide what Black people can and can't find offensive. If you know Black people who are cool with being called that, great, and more power to them. But if Black People don't like the term, respect thier wishes and understand why this would get under thier skin.

C'mon, this probably went through a dozen people before being released to the public and no one thought "man people might take it the wrong way". Call it too PC or whatever, but a major business shouldn't be so vacuous and have some sort of self awareness.

This. Terrible marketing department.

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#34 Edited by RedHeathen (2247 posts) - - Show Bio

@juiceboks said:

@redheathen: If you're honestly unaware of the history of associating Blacks with primates and the dehumanization of them, then that shows more ignorance on your part than anything else.

Don't claim that calling a Black person a monkey isn't racist just because you don't understand why.

I am not claiming that in the least. Some of the comments in this thread seem to imply that the people who made the photo and who approved the photo and maybe even the company itself are racist, which is a very strong word. Something can be racist without a person intending it to be racist.

I stated that I had never heard the slur, and then I expounded upon my experience by saying that I'm sure that the photographer and the person who approved the photo most likely hadn't heard it, either. I then gave another personal opinion that I didn't think that the person who took the photo or the person who approved were racist nor intended for this to be racist. I never said that this photo was absolutely not racist because I had never heard of associating blacks with monkeys. I commented on the intent and how people get upset and assume that human beings are purposely racist. If there is an association of monkeys = black people, then the photo itself is racist, but that doesn't mean that the people are racist. They made a mistake. As a non-Caucasian and as a member of a group of people that the US has targeted for death and still continues to target for what amounts to ethnic cleansing, I personally think that people need to be willing to educate those who don't understand or know of something because we all live on this earth together and need to be more understanding and loving toward one another. Once a person shows that they do not want to be educated or do not care, then there is a problem, but not until then.

I have never heard that slur, and I am Native American. I know my fair share of racial slurs, racism, prejudice, and discrimination, even to the point of having three people in my family dead because they weren't white, so please don't jump on my back because I have not had your seemingly privileged life - privileged enough that you get to hear more racial slurs than I have, which says a lot because I am not young. And like I said, I grew up in Mississippi, a very hateful place if you aren't white and male.

I have been asking around. No one I know has ever heard this. There is no reason to attack me for this. Just because you've heard this doesn't mean everyone else has. I stand firm in what I said that in no way do I think that this ad photo was intended as racist. It's not even logical that it would be because the company is going to lose a lot of money because of it.

BTW, considering your strong opinion on this topic (strong enough not to pay attention to what I am actually saying) I hope that you do not support the Washington NFL team. <==actual and intended racism

@juiceboks said:

@buttersdaman000: Well as Laflux pointed out, the racist connotations are still present in other parts of the world like Europe. Racism is a global phenomenon after all. Though I guess depending on where he is, this particular association may be somewhat uncommon.

Yea it's one thing to not understand why something is offensive, but to claim that others shouldn't be offended by it is quite nonsensical. Apparently so long as the ad didn't use the N-word or have a roped noose around the boy's neck as part of the ensemble then everybody is just pulling the race card.

I did not say that no one should be offended, but people need to put this stuff in better context. An ad campaign isn't going to purposely do something that will cost the company money in the long run. Again, I address intent and not whether or not this is actually racist.

If people get this pissed about a pic and are not willing to understand that there is a difference between intent and reality, then WHY do they not get pissed at the actual, in real life, government documents that flat out say to kill natives via forced assimilation? Why is there a Washington NFL team with its current name, which amounts to the n-word? Why are natives forced by state and national government to register with them in order to even say that they are native? Why do native have to be registered as natives with the government in order to get assistance? You don't see that with any other race in the US, so why is it okay that natives are forced to? Why is the govt legally allowed to steal from natives? And why is this photo so important to garner this much attention to the point that people such as yourself jump on other peoples' backs such as myself for stating a personal opinion about the intent of an individual person instead of calling them a racist, which is highly inflammatory, when all this other crap is allowed to exist WHILE NO ONE CARES. If they did care, if you cared, then why aren't these things addressed as loudly and with as much conviction?

In addition to that, why does this forum (I see you are a moderator) allow people to use the word "retarded" in a derogatory manner? I'm not neurotypical, and each time I've seen that word, I'm reminded of my place in this world and in the social hierarchy - that I'm not really a human being of equal importance. That word is no less than the n-word.

PLEASE NOTE - I am not saying that racism against one demographic is worse than racism against another demographic. I am addressing something entirely different, which is that it is not okay to say a person absolutely is a racist if they did not have the intent or knowledge. What is racist may not have been meant to be racist. The company is trying to take care of this now, rightfully so, but to say or imply that the individuals are racist is wrong until proven otherwise because that label is really a strong one and not easily shed. It is not deserved unless it is earned, and in this case, I don't think it was.

TL;DR - the photo can be racist without calling the people associated with it racist.

HOWEVER - and I just thought of this, what if the people associated with the photo aren't white? Do we even know their ethnicity? Are they black? What if they are not white or black? In either case, are they racist? Is the photo, then, not racist? Considering we have no idea who the people behind this photo are, I think we can still rely on the fact that even if the photo itself is racist, the people behind it aren't necessarily so.

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#35 Edited by RedHeathen (2247 posts) - - Show Bio

@buttersdaman000 said:
@juiceboks said:

@redheathen: If you're honestly unaware of the history of associating Blacks with primates and the dehumanization of them, then that shows more ignorance on your part than anything else.

Don't claim that calling a Black person a monkey isn't racist just because you don't understand why.

Well he might not be American/Canadian/British so it's possible he just never encountered that slur. If he is, however, then yeah, he's ignorant.

What's worse is that he apparently has no empathy towards why people might find this offensive. He's basically on a slippery slope where nothing can be racist/prejudice unless it's overtly so.

More gross assumption... Also, I am not a He. If I use your deductive logic on you, then I could say that you are sexist and perhaps even a misogynist just for assuming that I am male.

As to your last sentence - racism in the US is itself racist, and you yourself are, to me, showing that you are a racist by assuming I am white or black. If you do not assume that I am white or black, then you are being racist because you are not taking my culture and our beliefs into consideration. You want to talk about a slippery slope? According to your logic, you done fell down that slope, slippery or not.

IT IS BECAUSE I HAVE EMPATHY that I care about intent. You need to back up on that comment. I do not have a mental illness or neurological condition that renders me without empathy. Now, I can say that you are being an ableist for even inferring that I lack empathy, which is a common fallacy for autists and for some people with certain mental health conditions. I am autistic, and it is abhorrent to say any such thing to someone such as myself who is not similarly abled as you, who apparently has the knowledge and wisdom to hand out such labels.

See how assumptions and labels about individual people aren't really fair based on what is said or published, etc? What is said might be slanderous, slurs, etc, but is the person behind them that type person? In your case, I am willing to give you the benefit of doubt, even though you have (hopefully unknowingly) attacked my person on three levels. Benefit of doubt of individual people is what I intended to address in my original comment.

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#36 Posted by CosmoGod (1091 posts) - - Show Bio

This is more of a propaganda. I think sometimes people only see what they want to see.

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#37 Edited by RedHeathen (2247 posts) - - Show Bio

@ryokuma100 said:

For those who don't know, H&M showcased a darkskinned model wearing a shirt saying "Coolest Monkey in the Jungle." The internet erupted with calling it racist and ignorant.

OKAY SO WHAT YOU ARE SAYING IS RACIST.

As a person who is not Caucasian nor African, I do not think it is okay to assume that all "darkskinned" persons fall into the same categories nor that it is okay to force all dark skin people into a category that is the target of a racial slur that never pertained to them.

Have you ever heard of a Native American being called a monkey as an institutionalized (not individual) racial slur? I don't think anyone has. There are A LOT of slurs for natives, but monkey isn't one of them.

@juiceboks@buttersdaman000 could I not conclude that you are both racist for assuming that all "dark skinned" people should know that there is a slur about "blacks" being monkeys and that all "dark skinned" people are black? There is no need to comment back that you never said that dark skin = black because you both, along with others, immediately began discussing blacks.

As to the OP, @ryokuma100, they should not have posted saying that this photo is racist against "dark skinned" people because it is not. Although the photo is racist toward blacks based on a slur (which I never heard of until now and accept even though I don't understand it <--- these things are not mutually exclusive), it is not racist toward all people with what is considered to be "dark skin" because people who are not of African heritage can have dark skin, and they never have had this slur applied to them.

I'm being technical now because I just had two people jump my butt for no reason other than to do so without first trying to understand. Not understanding is the cause of all this and for the creation of the photo. >> Irony at work in the real time. <<

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#38 Posted by Magian (152105 posts) - - Show Bio

There is a part of me that recognizes the problem, and is wondering what the devil the manager was smoking when he let it pass.

But at the same time there is a part of me rolling it's eyes at the people fuming with rage over a shirt. Since we are now living in an age where any misstep is a trigger for someone to fly into a rage along with a hundred other people.

Prettty much this.

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#39 Edited by Rustlingjimmy (1185 posts) - - Show Bio

@cosmogod said:

This is more of a propaganda. I think sometimes people only see what they want to see.

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#40 Edited by RedHeathen (2247 posts) - - Show Bio
@juiceboks said:

@redheathen: If you're honestly unaware of the history of associating Blacks with primates and the dehumanization of them, then that shows more ignorance on your part than anything else.

Don't claim that calling a Black person a monkey isn't racist just because you don't understand why.

I just thought of this, so sorry for the multiple posts. I've edited a couple of them, but I think that if I edit the original one where I quoted this comment of yours, then you might have already read it and missed the edit.

Are you aware of the history of Native Americans? Are you aware of the specific history of my people? Are you aware of anything about natives other than Spaniards came to this part of the world and took over and later there was the creation of reservations for some (most) natives? How can you make comments to me about my person and my thoughts if you don't know my history considering you are ragging on me for stating an opinion about intent?

For that matter, do you know the history of people who are not similarly abled to you? OF people who are not neurologically the same as you? How can you attack me for what I think when you don't first try to understand how I think or to consider that I may not physically be capable of thinking or expressing myself in the same manner as you?

I know I have said a lot now, but what you and the other person said to me and about me were beyond offensive. They were outright attacks against me based on the person I am. I've tried to make it clear on this site that I am not neurotypical and I try to be nice and explain that I might not understand. I do that because I am not neurotypical. I wonder what life would be like if everyone tried to first try to understand a person before saying such nasty things about them.

Also, have any of you noticed my profile photo and my name? Red Heathen is a slur against natives. I use it as a middle finger to the government and people who are racist. I claim it. The Declaration of Independence actually uses the term "Red Savages" to name natives, and no one gives two sh1ts about that.

I hope all of you can take a step back and remember that racism is so much more than Black and White. I've seen more than one or two blacks be very racist toward natives, asians, hispanic, and more. I've personally experienced it. It's all perspective, and *in my opinion* I think it is vital that we first try to understand one another before making personally accusations. (circle back to the OP and to the comments / implications that people who were involved in taking and publishing this photo are racist and my original intention of posting about intentions.)

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#41 Posted by RedHeathen (2247 posts) - - Show Bio

@buttersdaman000: Well as Laflux pointed out, the racist connotations are still present in other parts of the world like Europe. Racism is a global phenomenon after all. Though I guess depending on where he is, this particular association may be somewhat uncommon.

Yea it's one thing to not understand why something is offensive, but to claim that others shouldn't be offended by it is quite nonsensical. Apparently so long as the ad didn't use the N-word or have a roped noose around the boy's neck as part of the ensemble then everybody is just pulling the race card.

Sorry for more posts, but now I want to address your comment about the necessity for lack of subtlety, which I don't need a lesson in when it comes to racism.

In my previous post, I mentioned knowledge of history. Here is a history lesson for you, and I give it to you on the assumption that you are not aware of native history beyond the typical and generalized "poor natives were all killed or forced onto reservations because they had their land stolen".

Natives were hung as well. It wasn't just uppity slaves or shucking black folk who were the victims of lynchings. In fact, Lincoln the Emancipator ordered a few dozen natives be hung at one time, but does that matter? It doesn't seem to. It was the largest mass execution in history. Does anyone know this? Of course not. Hanging is, as most anything associated with racism in the US, reserved only for blacks, right? Wrong. My people and others, such as the Chinese (typically associated with being killed by explosion), were regular victims of such method of execution. Our ancestors were killed by many methods not because they were criminals but because they weren't white. In this particular instance, however and to be fair, the men were considered war criminals. They weren't, however, given fair trials in many regards. Also, that n-word is not the only racially slanderous word in existence, although it is used for natives as well in various forms.

Lincoln condoned and discussed such things as ethnic cleansing. He turned a blind eye to Army policies established such as “All Indian men … are to be killed whenever and wherever you can find them," but that is off the topic of hangings and epithets. If you want to know more, I just looked for this article for you or anyone else who is interested, but there is more than this. So much for the liberal intent behind pulling down Confederate statues and monuments, which was a complete farce. Everything about this country and its development is.

The race card is pulled enough times that the action has earned a name and recognition, and I think it is rightfully called in this case if the people behind the photo are being called racists without actually knowing that they are racist. But maybe it's just me thinking that we need to all be considerate of one another and that the *current* actual invasion and theft of property, killing people, poisoning them, lack of equal rights, forced registration, and more need more attention than calling unknown persons names based on little to no knowledge.

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#42 Edited by Formosa (32 posts) - - Show Bio

This is what we as people have come to. So many people saw this before it was released, and not one of them shot it down. This is not okay.

I have friends who have had to deal with this particular name calling, during one of their basketball games, there were fans who kept calling them monkeys and made monkey sounds. They were tossed after a while, but it disturbs me that people are comfortable enough to do that in a crowded area.

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#43 Edited by juiceboks (25005 posts) - - Show Bio

@redheathen: So obviously I'm not going to touch on every little thing you said as the vast majority of it reeks of presumption and projection, but I'd like to address a few points.

1. I did not personally attack you. My statements were based solely off of the claims you made. Claims such as this..

Why is it a bad thing for anyone to be called a monkey

It's statements like these that paint you as a very ignorant individual which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but then you preceded that statement with another one..

It's actually pretty much a sign of complete and utter stupidity to even associate this with racism.

So not only do you claim to not understand why people are calling this ad racist, but you go as far as to call them stupid for doing so regardless. That is not a post of someone who is empathetic to the issues and tribulations of other racial groups would make. You're free to have your own opinion of the ad and the companies intention, however you have no right to claim a mental deficiency for those who disagree with you, especially considering that this ad was targeted to people like me and not you.

2. You presumed SO much about my ignorance on Native American culture and historical racism on several levels, and for what reason I have no idea. I never once made a comment about Native Americans or racism in regards to another racial group, yet you felt the need to go on a tirade and write nearly a dozen paragraphs of information that has absolutely nothing to do with this thread or anything I said. If your intent was to educate me, then I'd suggest you pick and choose the time and place more wisely to actually be effective. This thread has nothing to do with Native Americans, and trying to make it about yourself and your history just makes you look selfish and insensitive.

3. Intent does not matter..especially not in this case. We will never truly know what the intent of the marketing team for putting out this ad was. In your opinion they weren't trying to be racist, I disagree but that's not relevant. What is relevant is the racist connotations of referring to a black person (and a child nonetheless) as a monkey. This is racist regardless of whether the executives at H&M intended it to be or not. At the very least this shows a complete lack of social awareness and cultural sensitivity on the part of the marketing team, which is ironic because that is an essential part of their job. H&M has proved that their content with hiring people who have made it clear that they are not qualified to be on any marketing committee, and in my opinion should face serious admonishment. These people were essentially paid to make a racist ad, consideration and sympathy for them and their intent are the last things that should be talked about. They made a mistake(or not) and should face the consequences.

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#44 Posted by Hypnos0929 (6727 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm 18 and black. I'd wear that to school to make people laugh or just as a joke. It's not that serious

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#45 Posted by buttersdaman000 (22878 posts) - - Show Bio

@buttersdaman000: Well as Laflux pointed out, the racist connotations are still present in other parts of the world like Europe. Racism is a global phenomenon after all. Though I guess depending on where he is, this particular association may be somewhat uncommon.

Yea it's one thing to not understand why something is offensive, but to claim that others shouldn't be offended by it is quite nonsensical. Apparently so long as the ad didn't use the N-word or have a roped noose around the boy's neck as part of the ensemble then everybody is just pulling the race card.

True true, just saying some of the more obscure racial insults may not be known to people outside of certain parts of Europe and North America.

Exactly

Yeah, i'm not reading all that. I skimmed the post you sent, and it just seems as if you're moving goalposts and playing hypothetical whataboutism games.

If you went through all that to prove you have empathy towards the situation and can understand why some black people were offended, even though it seems mundane to you, then simply admit you were misinformed. Trying so hard to defend your position only makes you come off worse.

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#46 Edited by Royal_Warrior (5059 posts) - - Show Bio

And we've found many problems in this thread alone

Looking to be insulted by something is the only step to being insulted

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#47 Posted by DeathandGrim (4842 posts) - - Show Bio

There is a part of me that recognizes the problem, and is wondering what the devil the manager was smoking when he let it pass.

But at the same time there is a part of me rolling it's eyes at the people fuming with rage over a shirt. Since we are now living in an age where any misstep is a trigger for someone to fly into a rage along with a hundred other people.

I discussed this with a friend and he raised a good point of the slippery slope. It may seem benign but if we let something even little like this fly by people are gonna push the boundaries. And we've already been on the extreme conclusion of what happens when those bounds are pushed before. We're trying to keep it all in check.

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#48 Posted by Royal_Warrior (5059 posts) - - Show Bio

USA we know your countries just brimming with racial tension however don't jump down at other countries

I'm mixed race and don't find it offensive at all, no one of my mates do and in fact we were boying off the people who are offended

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner and racism isn't really a issue here but god damn, don't try being your sensitive US crap over here, we don't jude people on skin colour and we don't cry at something that can be twisted into a political agenda

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#49 Posted by Chimeroid (9268 posts) - - Show Bio

@laflux said:

I don't think it was intentional but it was incredibly idiotic for them to think that doing this wouldn't cause controversey. It also shows a lack of cultural awareness imo

What is even more infuriating is people who are not black saying stuff like "Why would you be so offended", "I definitely would wear a coolest cracker in the biscuit box jar", "We call young children cheeky monkeys all the time". Like it is not up to you to decide what Black people can and can't find offensive. If you know Black people who are cool with being called that, great, and more power to them. But if Black People don't like the term, respect thier wishes and understand why this would get under thier skin.

Finding something offensive and calling someone a racist are two entirely different things. Also, nobody called anyone anything. The kid took hundreds of pictures with a bunch of different clothing articles, this is just one of the writings he wore. Hell, when i was a kid i loved my monkey shirts. Are you saying that black people in commercials should not be allowed to wear monkey themed clothing?

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#50 Posted by RedHeathen (2247 posts) - - Show Bio

@juiceboks said:

@buttersdaman000: Well as Laflux pointed out, the racist connotations are still present in other parts of the world like Europe. Racism is a global phenomenon after all. Though I guess depending on where he is, this particular association may be somewhat uncommon.

Yea it's one thing to not understand why something is offensive, but to claim that others shouldn't be offended by it is quite nonsensical. Apparently so long as the ad didn't use the N-word or have a roped noose around the boy's neck as part of the ensemble then everybody is just pulling the race card.

True true, just saying some of the more obscure racial insults may not be known to people outside of certain parts of Europe and North America.

Exactly

Yeah, i'm not reading all that. I skimmed the post you sent, and it just seems as if you're moving goalposts and playing hypothetical whataboutism games.

If you went through all that to prove you have empathy towards the situation and can understand why some black people were offended, even though it seems mundane to you, then simply admit you were misinformed. Trying so hard to defend your position only makes you come off worse.

Are you even capable of trying to understand? Again, it's not me who doesn't have empathy, and you are racist and an ableist for saying such things. "come off worse"? What is wrong with you?