Gender Equality

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Madmartigan8282

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I'm a huge advocate for women approaching guys they want. After all men shouldn't have to carry the sole weight of this responsibility. We're moving toward the year 2020 and this is LONG overdo. Alot of men are actually scared of approaching females for fear of being socially ridiculed and also possible legal repercussions if she chooses to be a butthead. I think to save a whole lotta stress on both sides of the equation women should be the ones making the first move. This is just my opinion. Please share your thoughts. Keep it respectful and try to use logic.

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bigsebson

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A lot of men are too scared and the women are the one who approach, giving hints etc. because most scorned males in today's era are snowflakes.

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Madmartigan8282

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#3  Edited By Madmartigan8282

@bigsebson: I don't know if it's soley just scorned men but I do know that the percentages of men actively getting married to women has definitely declined as the divorce rates have skyrocketed in the US. You can clearly see the criminalization of masculinity and the praising of male effeminazation in today's society which has alot of men very apprehensive about openly displaying their attraction to the opposite sex for many reasons of which being one of them the toxic feminist mindset which has spurred from the metoo madness.

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Ozzy_ManuelDiaz

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I think women being more open and forward is quite attractive. If the dudes don't have game than its a shame. Someone is going to step up

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EmmoFreezeXmen

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Lmao not like girls are coming your way any time soon πŸ˜‚

Goofy ass thread

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Madmartigan8282

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#6  Edited By Madmartigan8282

@emmofreezexmen: that's funny considering I would've been your dad if the line wasn't so long you lame ass troll. stay off of my thread and get back to me once you hit puberty and learn some respect. πŸ€”P.S Stop worrying about how many buns I get weirdo. Just know I get more than you and that's a FACT

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Madmartigan8282

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#7  Edited By Madmartigan8282

@ozzy_manueldiaz: I don't think it necessarily always comes down to the guy having game or not. Women don't want to be approached by guys they don't like. The problem is that men are not mind readers so you won't know until it's too late.

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Ozzy_ManuelDiaz

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@madmartigan8282: Exactly. You have to at least try. You haven't seen dudes with girls and thought the girl is way too pretty to be with a guy like that (superficially)? I knew a lot of woman that have been played by dudes and all it takes is someone that seems decent and can start a conversation that leads them to laughing and BAM - hookup. When I say game, it doesn't have to be good. I rarely hear actual game, but if they get the girl, it has to be good, IMO

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EmmoFreezeXmen

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@madmartigan8282: You get nothing you are lame as hell lmao. Why don’t you not come back because no one cares πŸ˜‚

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HarryNorine

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#10  Edited By HarryNorine

GENDER EQUALITY DOES NOT EXIST

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Madmartigan8282

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@ozzy_manueldiaz: No i definitely get what you're saying but I try not to be judgmental. Besides everyone has preference and alot of times I've seen (and have experienced myself) situations with women getting in their feelings because you don't prefer their particular type but if it's the other way around then you just have to accept it.

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Madmartigan8282

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@emmofreezexmen: Do we know each other from somewhere or something dude?? Seriously you sound like your either mentally challenged or possibly a groupie or stalker. I tried to spare you the first time but now I've already flagged you for being a creepy annoying troll. Go back to playing Legend of Zelda kid.

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Shinne

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I'm fine with just showing signs. If he's not smart enough to pick it up, then he's not worthy :)

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Madmartigan8282

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#14  Edited By Madmartigan8282

@lan_fan: I hear you but in today's metoo climate do you think "signs" are sufficient enough? I mean attention is the drug of choice for alot of females even those in serious relationships so potentially she could just be playing another game of rack up attention points. How about actually going up to the guy and telling him. That's a part of gender equality after all. I understand that everyone isn't brave enough to put their ego on the line though. But then again guys have been doing that forever.

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Shinne

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@madmartigan8282: I can't speak for all women, but it's usually more than enough. I'm the type of girl who falls for attention anyway, so usually it's unlikely for me to fall for a guy who's not chasing me in the first place. I mean, surely, sometimes I get attracted to some random guy, but it's never serious. In the end, who knows what would've happened if I had tried to approach them.

I think it's just how it works, and will be pretty hard to change... You see, because women usually don't approach men, the men are pretty much forced to do the approaching, because otherwise they won't get laid... Then you see from the women's perspective, because they tend to have more options due to having multiple men approaching them, they may prefer to choose one of them instead of approaching other men.

It goes full circle, lol. Obviously, I'm not speaking on behalf of all males and females, but I think a lot of people can relate.

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Madmartigan8282

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@lan_fan: I agree with the fact that women do have tons of options available to them in the sexual marketplace due to having a seemingly neverending supply of men willing to pander to them but these are usually guys that have no sense of who they are as men and would much rather be chasing after women (who most likely will just see this as low value behavior and albeit show them some sort of recipricated attention it most likely won't be the kind of attention they were hoping for due to not understanding female nature) instead of changing the narrative so that the woman shares that responsibility of pursuing a male counterpart. It's frustrating for alot of guys because you'll hear women basically confess (without even realizing that they are) that they want the privledge of modern day gender equality and yet the traditionalism of prehistoric dating norms like the man being the pursuer and those two dynamics can't intertwine with each other so something has to give or no one is going to be happy.

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TheSpartanB345T

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This type of argument gets repetitive fast.

Pretty much all gender "inequality" can be chalked to basic biological differences at this point in America.

More specifically, NO women are not supposed to make the first move. Biologically they desire bold, confident men that have the balls to go approach them. Think about it. If you can't handle simple social interaction, how will you be able to negotiate with other tribes? How will you be able to hunt and protect your offspring? These are evolutionary reasons behind humans being the way they are. While society has moved past neolithic times, our brains have not.

So you can either complain about the reality of human existence and how reproduction works, or you can try and do something about it. If you think this way as a woman, who says you can't approach? If you believe this as a man, why not try and brave it out? The chances that you'll succeed any other way are quite low.

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TheSpartanB345T

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@madmartigan8282: Also, the reason that women have way more sexual options is because they were designed this way.

Think about it: one man can impregnate 50 women in a month if he's REALLY efficient with it (hypothetical) and a women can ONLY choose one mate for her offspring, which takes pretty much a YEAR to fully produce. Men are way less choosy because they have so much of their genetics to spread that the actual quality of their child is irrelevant, because they can just have another. Women, however, are ridiculously meticulous when choosing partners, because they can only choose ONE father for the next year. This makes the women the one who picks from men; they need the best genetic possibility for their child. They have tons of options, because most men are willing, but will only choose a small handful of "worthy" subjects in their lifetime.

I'm not saying this is the actual thought process that takes place, because it's subconscious, but it is the evolutionary reason behind the way gender roles work.

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LukaDoncicmvp

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USA society is being ruled by a feminist matriarchy cause the courts are being dominated by feminist groups. No way to deny this.

It won't last for long tho', Liberalism is dying.

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Buckwheat

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You've got to do what you feel. If you overthink it you take the fun out of it.

Sometimes you'll prefer to be more out there. Others you'll play it cool. You can goof around or be more relax.

This also changes depending on whom you are looking to get close to.

Rule number one. There is no fixed formula. Be creative. Be fun. Be yourself. Don't take it too seriously.

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KingOfWakanda

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It would be nice to live a world where women always made the first move, wouldn't it? Just think, you get to sit back and do nothing, be yourself and women come up to you to tell you how attractive you are and how they want to be with you.

When you type it out, you realize how silly that sounds. That just isn't how things work and I don't see a societal shift happening anytime soon. Women are just people too. There's nothing to be afraid of. If you approach them, the worst they can do is say no or not interested. If they ridicule you or mock you, that's not someone you want to be with anyway. You have to have enough self esteem to realize that being rejected isn't a reflection on you. Being rejected is never fun, but if you don't take chances, you'll end up alone.

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Madmartigan8282

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#22  Edited By Madmartigan8282

@thespartanb345t: Thank you for the interesting insights however I'm evaluating this from a logical standpoint in regards to many of the situations that have unfolded from men making the first move. Men face public humiliation today for "braving it out" not to mention possibly being arrested because that particular female has no clue what it means to interact with a real man face to face and not through a text message or some lame dating site. This is the reality alot of guys today are facing. I'm not making this up even though I wish I was. All because your not 6"5 with a six pack and a bald head. Social media has completely ruined not only the dating market but in many ways the very fabric of traditional conversation between men and women. Everything that's normal is considered weird by people who have absolutely zero social skills in real time. I know all that stuff already about men and women being biologically different but this isn't the ice age anymore and if anything what I'm seeing is a shift in attraction where as the traditional alpha male archetype is now being replaced by beta males which women are seeking out for security purposes given that these are the sub group of males most likely to be easily taken advantage of by manipulative women that seek them out for their resources. Alphas on the other hand ain't havin it and females know that. That's one of the main reasons why they find Alpha males more attractive is their not afraid to put their foot down with women but all in all the shift is definitely becoming more prevelant.

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Madmartigan8282

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@kingofwakanda: Alright let's not demonize being alone lol. I actually prefer being alone as a man and would encourage other men to be on their own as well and instead of falling into this all to common mindset I see with people where they need to be in a relationship to quell their own insecurities about being single. Guys are constantly shamed for choosing to be single by women that can't imagine being on their own for a change instead of jumping in and out of relationships and making horrible dating choices. The last thing we need is guys doing it to other men but low and behold this is a thing. There's nothing wrong with being a lone wolf and taking time to focus on yourself. I personally have enough confidence to share but I'm speaking from a first hand perspective. Until females learn to take self accountability and stop trying to take the easy way out I think it is totally reasonable for the responsibility of approaching to be shared equally. Even though the song says life is a highway let's not forget there are two lanes. It's not a one way street.

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KingOfWakanda

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@madmartigan8282: I wasn't demonizing being alone. All I was saying was if you're waiting for women to do all the approaching you might be waiting a mighty long time. Expecting the paradigm to shift from men pursuing women to the reverse after millennium isn't realistic.

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TheSpartanB345T

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@madmartigan8282: The problem is not the act of approaching women, but the execution. It's how you frame your actions. If you just go up to someone nonchalantly, start a conversation with them and introduce yourself, not much can go wrong. The worst is you'll get ridiculed (very unlikely) by a random person you'll never see again. The best case scenario is obvious.

There's a stigma against doing it, sure, but in the moment most people won't care. Contrary to popular belief, being attractive for guys is 75% personality and barely any looks. As long as you have yourself put together and do the most with what you have (haircut, good clothes, clean, etc.) girls will disregard being traditionally ugly if your personality is in the right place (confident, assertive, etc.) Being "alpha" is more about personality and getting what you want than looks.

I don't think anyone who approaches a women will get seriously into trouble if they didn't do anything wrong. People ACT like they should, but it never happens for the most part. So that shouldn't be a genuine concern (if you live in the US at least.)

As for the "it isn't the Ice Age" argument, that simply doesn't work. Human brains have not evolved since then, evolution takes MUCH longer. This means that all the biological predispositions in our minds are impossible to shake off. Women can agree that they should approach, but it goes against every instinct they have. I've already explained the evolutionary standpoint, but the societal one is equally impactful.

Just as much as men fear being rejected, ridiculed, and arrested, women fear being raped, harassed, and overpowered by random men. Both fears are partially based in truth and a bit irrational, but they aren't going away any time soon. Men have WAY more incentive to approach, and women have pretty much none. Add the evolutionary precedents set in our brains and societal norms and you have an immovable gender dynamic.

I'm not saying women shouldn't approach; they should. However, counting on this to happen at all is completely unrealistic when considering the modern circumstances. The only solution that I can see for men is to try to approach yourself and learn to do it in the best way possible.

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TheSpartanB345T

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@madmartigan8282: I also forgot the alpha/beta part.

That's false. 90% of attractive women value alpha men way more than betas. The more insecure women will try to get guys that they perceive "in their league," but the most attractive look for alphas. Nobody wants to manipulate their partner in a healthy relationship, and I guarantee 90% of women don't do this. Assuming that they will is quite a toxic mentality to have, imo.

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Madmartigan8282

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@kingofwakanda: Its already happening lol. Look up the red pill mindset on YouTube when you get a chance. Guys are fed up. It's time for women to put up or shut up.

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Madmartigan8282

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@thespartanb345t: I wouldn't say toxic so much as realistic and being prepared for any bs which will undoubtably come to the relationship at some point. The whole alpha/beta thing is silly at the end of the day because alot of guys I've seen that claim to be alpha usually are the complete opposite. Of course women want a strong independent confident man but what your seeing alot of the time now is certain women with ill intent seeking out weak minded guys that are going to bend the knee and cow tow to them no matter what. It's sickening. Hopefully 2020 sees a major shift so the playing field is on even level. Happy New year's by the way 🍾

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SpareHeadOne

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Women have always initiated with me.

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KingOfWakanda

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LukaDoncicmvp

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Evolution is not an argument, I find it funny when dudes bring up this pseudo scientific point.

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freestyler1999

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Going into the toxic red pill mindset will not help you to get a girlfriend, it will just turn you into an even less confident and a self pityingly person. Women making the first move would be cool, but will just sporadically if at all happen.

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dernman

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#34  Edited By dernman

@freestyler1999: Acknowledging some truths or points isn't toxic or wrong. Sure some things can be taken too far but that can be said about anything. Now I haven't read the op more than skimming but I have read the comments. You unfortunately or fortunately got the reply for the culmination of that.

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HarryNorine

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Going into the toxic red pill mindset will not help you to get a girlfriend, it will just turn you into an even less confident and a self pityingly person. Women making the first move would be cool, but will just sporadically if at all happen.

Except guys who adopt red pill mindset are in fact getting layed and having control of their sex life.

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Madmartigan8282

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Madmartigan8282

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Madmartigan8282

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#38  Edited By Madmartigan8282

@freestyler1999: I'm gonna confidently disagree with atleast 99% of that. There's nothing toxic about a mindset that allows you to see life the way it actually is. Furthermore having a girlfriend isn't on everyone's agenda. There's way more to life than subscribing to the notion that if your single and focusing on more important things like building a business, traveling or self development then that somehow makes you an inferior man. On the contrary I actually think the guys that get sensitive over another guy choosing to value himself over being in a relationship are the ones that are inferior in their thinking if anything. Just my opinion

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Madmartigan8282

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#39  Edited By Madmartigan8282

@freestyler1999: I'm gonna confidently disagree with atleast 99% of that. There's nothing toxic about a mindset that allows you to see life the way it actually is. Furthermore having a girlfriend isn't on everyone's agenda. There's way more to life than subscribing to the notion that if your single and focusing on more important things like building a business, traveling or self development then that somehow makes you an inferior man. On the contrary I actually think the guys that get sensitive over another guy choosing to value himself over being in a relationship are the ones that are inferior in their thinking if anything. Just my opinion

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Shinne

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@madmartigan8282: I also forgot the alpha/beta part.

That's false. 90% of attractive women value alpha men way more than betas. The more insecure women will try to get guys that they perceive "in their league," but the most attractive look for alphas.

You call it insecure, but there are in fact women who simply aren't as shallow as you're making it out to be.

Plus, alpha/beta classification is kind of a pseudoscience. Even if they're correct, there must be way more than 2 categories. The other classification that also includes stuffs like Sigma, Gamma, Omega makes more sense to me. Even then, this simply can't be the end all be all thing that determines attractiveness, again, not every women are this shallow.

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TheSpartanB345T

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@lan_fan:

You call it insecure, but there are in fact women who simply aren't as shallow as you're making it out to be.

I wouldn't call it shallow, but simply following what is considered "attractive" in a man.

Plus, alpha/beta classification is kind of a pseudoscience. Even if they're correct, there must be way more than 2 categories. The other classification that also includes stuffs like Sigma, Gamma, Omega makes more sense to me. Even then, this simply can't be the end all be all thing that determines attractiveness, again, not every women are this shallow.

I agree, the entire classification is strange in itself; I merely used it because OP was referencing it.

My main point is that "alpha" males who portray confidence, assertiveness, and open vulnerability are more attractive. They don't have to be stereotypical alphas, but men with those traits are going to be found as more attractive than the opposite side of the spectrum (insecure, introverted, not emotionally/socially aware.) This doesn't mean they can't be attractive, but it does make them "lose potential" on the attractiveness that they could of had. I think society has a predetermined view of what an "alpha" is, and it is some macho athletic surfer dude or something, when in reality "alpha" traits are something all guys should strive for because they are indicators of a healthier lifestyle.

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Shinne

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#42  Edited By Shinne

@thespartanb345t:

insecure, introverted, not emotionally/socially aware

That's the thing though. I don't think most followers/betas have these traits. Have you ever seen a group of popular kids at school? Well, there's one alpha among them and the rest are followers, yet most of them don't show these traits.

I think alpha and beta are pretty similar in a lot of ways, both are the "social ones" and depending on the situation, they can EASILY switch roles. An alpha can be a beta while surrounded by more dominant people, and a beta can turn into an alpha when surrounded by less dominant people.

However, a lot of people don't even belong in either category. For example, the asocials, they're not following anyone... Are they leaders? Also no.

Imo, it goes like this:

  • Dominant/social: alpha
  • Submissive/social: beta
  • Dominant/asocial: gamma (this is usually where internet people belong in general)
  • Submissive/asocial: omega

And this is not the end all be all of anything, just because you're the dominant social (alpha) one in a certain group, doesn't mean you can't switch roles when put in other groups. Like, you can be an omega in some groups, but then put in a group where everyone is more submissive and asocial than you, which now makes you the alpha of the said group. This one is unlikely though.

In terms of attraction, I think everyone has different standards of how dominant/social they want their partner to be. Not everyone wants to be with the most dominant and social ones... And it's not always due to the person's insecureness.

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TheSpartanB345T

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@lan_fan: Yeah it's definitely more complex than a simple alpha/beta dichotomy.

Like I said, I don't necessarily agree with the idea of one group having superior traits overall, but think each group has up/downsides to them.

I do think that "betas" have insecurities and less assertiveness, though, at least more than an "alpha." It's not obvious all the time, but the subtle differences mean a lot.

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freestyler1999

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#44  Edited By freestyler1999

@harrynorine said:
@freestyler1999 said:

Going into the toxic red pill mindset will not help you to get a girlfriend, it will just turn you into an even less confident and a self pityingly person. Women making the first move would be cool, but will just sporadically if at all happen.

Except guys who adopt red pill mindset are in fact getting layed and having control of their sex life.

Then why is almost all they do to whine about women all day long, you can't seriously believe these guys have a fulfilled sex life?

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freestyler1999

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#45  Edited By freestyler1999
@madmartigan8282 said:

@freestyler1999: I'm gonna confidently disagree with atleast 99% of that. There's nothing toxic about a mindset that allows you to see life the way it actually is. Furthermore having a girlfriend isn't on everyone's agenda. There's way more to life than subscribing to the notion that if your single and focusing on more important things like building a business, traveling or self development then that somehow makes you an inferior man. On the contrary I actually think the guys that get sensitive over another guy choosing to value himself over being in a relationship are the ones that are inferior in their thinking if anything. Just my opinion

There is a lot wrong with a mindset that supposedly allows you to see how life actually is, because that is not accidentally also the mindset of cults and organizations like Scientology.

And why would you even delelop a red pill mindset if you don't care about women or sex and just want to build a business or travel, why not just build a business or travel without following some weird ideology?

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freestyler1999

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#46  Edited By freestyler1999
@dernman said:

@freestyler1999: Acknowledging some truths or points isn't toxic or wrong. Sure some things can be taken too far but that can be said about anything. Now I haven't read the op more than skimming but I have read the comments. You unfortunately or fortunately got the reply for the culmination of that.

Are we still talking about these pitiful kind of guys?

https://www.forums.red/i/TheRedPill/?start=30&wrap=false&timeframe=1&userid=&sort=3

They are the definition of taking something too far, women are no angels at all but they are also not machines created to destroy men.

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Alavanka

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No. This will weaken our gene pool.

If anything, we need to find a way to legally execute people who are too cowardly to flirt with women.

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HarryNorine

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@freestyler1999: Because funny enough having sex does not make one not have a complaint about the current dating environment or women. A lot of blue pillers place sex and women on such a high pedestal that they believe once you have a satisfying sex life you would have no complaints of the current state of affairs of male to female relationship.

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dernman

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@dernman said:

@freestyler1999: Acknowledging some truths or points isn't toxic or wrong. Sure some things can be taken too far but that can be said about anything. Now I haven't read the op more than skimming but I have read the comments. You unfortunately or fortunately got the reply for the culmination of that.

Are we still talking about these pitiful kind of guys?

https://www.forums.red/i/TheRedPill/?start=30&wrap=false&timeframe=1&userid=&sort=3

They are the definition of taking something too far, women are no angels at all but they are also not machines created to destroy men.

Didn't click the link because I don't need evidence to know there are people that take things too far but that doesn't and shouldn't erase everything, everyone who speaks about it. I see too many people pointing using bad examples just to ignore the argument or points to those who align on issues..

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_Logos_

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More specifically, NO women are not supposed to make the first move. Biologically they desire bold, confident men that have the balls to go approach them. Think about it. If you can't handle simple social interaction, how will you be able to negotiate with other tribes? How will you be able to hunt and protect your offspring? These are evolutionary reasons behind humans being the way they are. While society has moved past neolithic times, our brains have not.

So you can either complain about the reality of human existence and how reproduction works, or you can try and do something about it. If you think this way as a woman, who says you can't approach? If you believe this as a man, why not try and brave it out? The chances that you'll succeed any other way are quite low.

This is the sad truth. Masculinity probably originates from tribalism. It seems like there is less of a need for masculinity in a society where there is less dependence on group social structures.

No one is really to blame for this change it's just the way of the world. It's up to men today to keep themselves imbued with masculine traits such as physical strength, confidence and being socially active so they can live better.

That being said I still hate it for what it is lol.