Donald Trump General Discussion thread

I would agree if you just said that because of certain problems in a country, that the vetting needs to be more rigorous. That's fair enough, although I'd first have to ask you what the current vetting is and why you think it's not adequate. But, ok, fair enough.

However, that's not what Trump or you said. You said you want to exclude people from these countries. Period. Even if that's not a racist thing, which I believe you that that's not your motivation, at the very least that's a dumb and nonsensical policy. If we want people here who are going to positively contribute to society, then we should try to get those people regardless of what country or race they come from. Actually, I remember reading that many of the immigrants that come here from African countries are highly qualified. And of course very few want to come here from Noway, because they're quite happy there... ironically because of the same policies that Trump and the Republicans hate, like universal healthcare, social safety net programs, stricter gun control laws, etc. I'm sure to many Norwegians, the U.S. is just the type of shithole country that they want to avoid.

Well, for example, 70 something percent of people in sub-Sahara Africa were born unregistered. This means their existence is not recorded. If they wish to obtain a birth certificate all they need to do is fill out a few papers, and give them their fingerprint. So when they apply for citizenship to America, their records are often only a year at the most old. How can one properly vet someone where most of their life isn't recorded?

America might be a shithole in some places, but it is also the freest nation in the world. Gun ownership, freedom of speech (which hardly any country has anymore with the rise of hate speech and mis-gendering laws in the UK and Canada), and freedom to purchase privatized (better/faster healthcare) than what the government can provide etc. Many people want that and we need to make sure we can make sure their records are completely clean.

@cable_extreme: Well, for example, 70 something percent of people in sub-Sahara Africa were born unregistered. This means their existence is not recorded. If they wish to obtain a birth certificate all they need to do is fill out a few papers, and give them their fingerprint. So when they apply for citizenship to America, their records are often only a year at the most old.

^Show me some hard evidence that this actually applies to people that come here besides a 20 year old unicef report that's based on data from those Governments to back it up.

But to be fair, quite a few countries hold some impressive liberties over the US. Such as legalized prostitution, drugs, and polygamy are the ones I can think of right away. This is especially the case in European nation. So in some ways, they are definitely more "free."

@fitnesstribesman13:

But to be fair, quite a few countries hold some impressive liberties over the US. Such as legalized prostitution, drugs, and polygamy are the ones I can think of right away. This is especially the case in European nation. So in some ways, they are definitely more "free."

^Good points man.

@fitnesstribesman13 said:

@cable_extreme said:

America might be a shithole in some places, but it is also the freest nation in the world. Gun ownership, freedom of speech (which hardly any country has anymore with the rise of hate speech and mis-gendering laws in the UK and Canada), and freedom to purchase privatized (better/faster healthcare) than what the government can provide etc. Many people want that and we need to make sure we can make sure their records are completely clean.

But to be fair, quite a few countries hold some impressive liberties over the US. Such as legalized prostitution, drugs, and polygamy are the ones I can think of right away. This is especially the case in European nation. So in some ways, they are definitely more "free."

Places within the U.S. legalize prostitution, and drugs. Polygamy isn't really freedom in the countries that allow it due to mostly arranged marriages.

To the extent that many European nations do? I'm not so sure about that, especially in Portugal where drug laws are considered the most free of any nation if I recall.

Where in the US is prostitution legal? If it is, then it must only be at a state level. Whereas prostitution is legal in many places in Europe at a national level.

As for polygamy, I'm referring to nations with legal and only consensual polygamy of course.

You can vet them just fine. A person's life is not defined by their paperwork.

Also, you didnt disprove anything I said. Even if we agree that somehow 70% of the people from a certain country cant get in, at all, because they dont have the right papers, that still leaves 30% who are perfectly fine... by your own standard. Yet, you said you dont want any of them here. Even if there's 1 person with impeccable credentials, who has all the right papers, has won a Nobel Prize in physics and spends half their time running a huge successful company and the rest volunteering at a soup kitchen to hep the poor, by your own words you dont want them here.

@fitnesstribesman13: Las Vegas is one place I know of.

I'm just going to drop this here, because science!

A new study supports the commonly held idea that conservatives generally just dont like immigrants.

https://arstechnica.com/science/2018/01/immigrant-friendly-policies-make-most-whites-feel-welcomed-too/

"White conservatives, however, were unique in this study in that they were the only group who felt that an immigrant-friendly community was hostile to them."

Even if we agree that somehow 70% of the people from a certain country cant get in, at all, because they dont have the right papers, that still leaves 30% who are perfectly fine... by your own standard. Yet, you said you dont want any of them here. Even if there's 1 person with impeccable credentials, who has all the right papers, has won a Nobel Prize in physics and spends half their time running a huge successful company and the rest volunteering at a soup kitchen to hep the poor, by your own words you dont want them here.

^This

@willpayton: you don’t have to agree with that statistic, the United Nations Children’s Fund tells us 70% don’t have papers.

I don’t wish to allow them until thier country developers a better way to record thier lives. It isn’t like they are educated in college either (due to poverty), which means many don’t have much to offer. It is somewhat cold hearted but what most countries do to insure national safety.

@cable_extreme:

I don’t wish to allow them until thier country developers a better way to record thier lives. It isn’t like they are educated in college either (due to poverty), which means many don’t have much to offer. It is somewhat cold hearted but what most countries do to insure national safety.

^The people who come here from those countries are educated, prove to me otherwise, it's hard to fake a degree especially if you are poor. The people that come here from those area's are typically some of the better off folks in their respective areas, they have all their papers, my wife for example had to present all of her school papers going back years, showing transcripts, and she comes from one of those countries you are talking about. She had her birth certificate, and even a reference to it in a news paper back in the 80's.

Did you guy's see Bill Murray on Saturday night live? That was hilarious.

If the GOP manages to get their bill to the Senate only to then see it fall apart is a poor strategy to avoid blame. Only bipartisan agreement can resolve funding, and bringing a single-party bill to a shotgun marriage is laughably devoid of that.

Resolving DACA and funding CHIP are not unreasonable demands; both programs being backed by federal guarantees that wouldn’t need urgent resolution if it weren’t for Republican game-playing in the first place.

Dems won a state legislature seat in Wisconsin held by Republicans for 16 years last night by 11 points in a district that Trump carried by 17 points. A 28 point swing (yes I know the math is obvious to us, but there may be Trumpsters reading this). Gov Scott just did a sphincter exercise I bet

@cable_extreme: There is over a billion people in Africa, even if it is 70%, that still leaves 300 million people that are legit, you want to put 300 million people in the same box? Our immigration laws have nothing to do with what you have been talking about with your many misleading falsehoods, and GOP talking points, spend some time away from the Breitbart forums once in a while friend.

@cable_extreme:

The republicans are in a no-win situation. If the they keep the government open, they'll do it without democratic votes, in order to retain the right to deport the Dreamers. If the government shuts down, they'll have only themselves to blame. Sure they can say "it's the Dems fault!" but that will sound tinny and hollow. The government will be shut down, I'm sure of that.

But when that happens, it's going to give democrats a tremendous amount of leverage; the government will have to be reopened, eventually.

So, from an overarching strategy perspective, republicans look pretty stupid.

I'm starting to think we should recognize certain viners as racists, maybe even issue a vetting process, there just seems to be little point in arguing against someone who holds apathetic core beliefs at a higher standard than empathetic ones.....Trump being the face of apathy in this nation should mean something here. Apaths have a hard time empathizing with others on even the simplest of issues and tend to be cognitively dissonant concerning their own emotions and objective reasoning.

TLDR: There's no point beating around the bush with stubborn people.... call em stubborn and state the facts they won't admit.

@cable_extreme: Good to know, which says a lot about me LOL...

@ancient_0f_days: Yes , thank you very much

hard to recall a time (at least as long as i have been alive and reading news) with such a profound lack of presidential leadership to get a spending deal passed. which is all it is right? they're never going to pass an actual budget in the foreseeable future.

so the bar is about as low as it can possibly get, yet nobody in the GOP can manage to clear it.

give the democrats a firm majority in both houses

and nancy will get billz on trump's desk

billz on billz on billz on billz

most productive congress

under her watch

The only thing in a year that the Republicans could agree on is to transfer wealth from the poor to the wealthy.

Although a shutdown would be a genuine hardship for many Americans, Democrats must use the only leverage they have left and refuse to support any extension that does not provide for relief for DACCA recipients CHIP children. Both are extremely popular with American voters, and the GOP's refusal to act here will put the responsibility for a shutdown squarely on their heads, where it most certainly belongs.

@cable_extreme: easy?? Lol then you don't know then. I can't comment on all but for Latin folks it's damn near impossible. We give Asians the easy in, but Latin folks resort to risking the desert for a reason. For them at least it's near impossible, which doesn't make sense at all given there our closest neighbors who give us the most

As for climate change want? Too late already so we just give up mess up the planet so much more making the future irrelevant yeah that's not the brightest thing to do. And yes virtually every real scientist knows and has shown proof for she's now. It's only the Republicans who cater to the billion dollar oil and energy tycoons, who loose money if we do the right thing and Actually get off our lazy behinds and do something about it. If not for those billion dollar company folks we might have some common sense. Money or the air we breathe and water we drink geee wiz which is more important....

@destinyman75: Thanks bro, I appreciate your statement here, it's so true, Republicans are so quick to demonize people who just want to be Americans.

At this point I say shut it down until Trump is gone. He is a crook with absolutely no interest in, or aptitude for this job, and the GOP's idea of negotiation is talking down to everyone until they get their way - which is to screw everyone over and give our money to rich people.

Shut this sucker down. It's not working for us anyway. What do you want to bet the GOP/Trump supporters blink first?

When it comes to Daca. Deporting them would cost another $7.5 billion, and when that's added up the cost of ending the DACA program comes to a total of minus $283 billion. http://time.com/money/4928394/daca-economic-cost-trump/

Since some in the GOP haven't been negotiating in good faith, a government shutdown over lack of progress for the dreamers and the children’s health plan funding is probably good. The tea partiers will be the ones responsible for the fallout on the military by not negotiating to reach a budget deal. The democrats are simply trying to do what’s right for the DACA recipients and the children covered by the federal health plan, actions that are desired by the majority in the US. So democrats and moderate republicans, hold off on approving the budget until the dreamers and children are all protected. Pay back for the far right’s actions has started. The blue wave that’s coming on shore will lift up the good folks who do the right thing by standing up for the dreamers and needy children.

Like I said, even if that statistic is correct, it doesnt suggest that no one of a certain country should be allowed to come here. Is there something special about "70%" that automatically taints everyone from a country as being "shitholes"?

Face it, this is racism plain and simple, just like excluding everyone of a certain religion is wrong and un-Constitutional. And I'm not someone that particularly likes religion, but I dont want to discriminate against people based on their personal beliefs or their race, or even what country they come from.

I'd prefer that we as a country, especially a country that ostensibly supports liberal values, democracy, freedom, and human rights, that we judge people based on their character and not things that they have no control over.

No one called the people shitholes.

Those aren't liberal values. Liberal values are anti-life (abortion), anti-rights (obligatory health insurance, hate speech laws, anti 2nd amendment etc...), anti election (want to change how we elect people), and are perfectly fine with dooming the country by allowing people of a certain ideology often hostile to the U.S. to come in and take over neighborhoods.

Disclaimer video NSFW (aggression, shouting, insults etc..)

Lemme get you a ladder so you don't fall off your moral pedestal there.

I'll get the bungie cord.

WTF are you talking about?

Welcome to the Trump thread

Poor people are the best people to steal from because they have so much money to steal.

Statement of the day ^

@cable_extreme:

Let me guess, this is the place where one side tries to argue using logic/reason while the other argues with their feelings/emotions.

@cable_extreme: yeah the point for those folks trying to come to America is so they can actually get an education and eat and not die of starvation. You know basic human rights, to say otherwise doesn't make sense in anyway. America is still the land of the free and the home of opportunity for ALL, not just the freaking privileged that already have an education that's backwards as hell

Human rights, the U.N. and the specific African countries should be ran better.

@cable_extreme: well of course they should but until it is what are those I mentioned to do, lay down and die?

Do your best to better your country, that is what I would do.

@cable_extreme: That's what I do to. I served, I pay taxes and I definitely realize that others are needed and welcome to bring there own experience and gifts to this country too.

No, that's your spin on what liberals believe. I'm talking about liberal values as in liberal democracy, aka Western democracy, aka what we have in the U.S. and most of the Western world.

It's also funny that you think that changing the electoral system constitutes "anti election", and that allowing immigrants into the U.S. is somehow going to destroy the country. Wow.

Very close. More like the place where people point out facts about Trump and others ignore those facts and make excuses for things like the constant lying and racist history that Trump has accumulated over decades.

and so it begins

This from the guy who claimed that Trump's tax cut would not benefit anyone but billionaires. Yet, it appears 90% of people will be getting a tax cut according to the US Treasury. It seems some people look at the facts regarding Trump's tax cut and others "feel" it won't benefit anyone other than billionaires.

And this from the guy who "felt" that Obama, not Trump deserves the lion's share of credit for the current US economy. However, a majority of US economists say that Trump should get significant credit for the current US economy and they base it on the "facts" of the impact of his policies:

Happily for President Trump, the pros agree with him. A recent survey of economists suggest it is President Trump, and not Obama, who should be taking a bow.

The Wall Street Journal asked 68 business, financial and academic economists who was responsible for the strengthening of the economy, and most “suggested Mr. Trump’s election deserves at least some credit” for the upturn.

A majority said the president had been “somewhat” or “strongly” positive for job creation, gross domestic product growth and the rising stock market.

The pros cite the White House’s push for lighter regulation and the recent tax bill as critical to a pro-growth environment; more than 90 percent of the group thought the tax bill would boost GDP expansion over the next two years.

A year ago in the same survey, economists awarded President Obama mixed grades. Most saw his policies as positive for financial stability, but neutral-to-negative for GDP growth and negative for long-term growth. By contrast, Trump was seen as neutral to positive for long-term gains.

Why would Trump rate higher than Obama with this group? Economists point to the upturn in business confidence that accompanied Trump’s election, and tie that to increasing business investment. Spending on capital goods accelerated sharply over the first three quarters of last year, growing at an annualized rate of 6.2 percent.

@cable_extreme:

You put too much value in those UNICEF stats instead of stat's from these governments themselves, that's where my stats are coming from. UNICEF is a charitable organization that relies on donations, they are also an organization that has been mired in scandal after scandal. They present numbers in order to get more donations, that in most cases don't even get to those in need. Those numbers you presented are 18 years old and wrong to the point that they can be disproven by looking at Government records from individual countries.

My wife was a nurse in Africa before she came here and she told me that the system is different there in most countries, here in the states they get the birth certificate before they are discharged from the hospital. There they get the birth certificates about a week after they are discharged from the hospital, the department of vital statistics and birth registry come to your house to register the baby about a week later.

UNICEF is only counting the babies that leave the hospital with birth certificates upon the initial discharge. Every country in Africa is different, but if you look at all the legal immigrants that come here from the entire continent, there is no evidence that they don't have valid papers, I guess you think Uncle Sam is that stupid.

@cable_extreme:

Human rights, the U.N. and the specific African countries should be ran better.

^Nobody is denying this, but it shouldn't preclude people from there migrating legally, that have something to offer to this country.