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#9951 Posted by BLACK3STPANTH3R (2807 posts) - - Show Bio

@cable_extreme: What is Trump's reasoning for not believing in air pollution? Where is his science, in school we couldn't present a problem to a math equation without showing our work, let Trump show us his work and then maybe I can take him seriously on the matter.

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#9952 Posted by BLACK3STPANTH3R (2807 posts) - - Show Bio

@cable_extreme: Trump always claims how smart he is, and that he went to the best schools, but doesn't even know that Fredrick Douglas died centuries ago, Trump thought he was still alive.

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#9953 Posted by Cable_Extreme (15080 posts) - - Show Bio

@cable_extreme: Everyone else besides Trump and the Trumpets, knows that we have to keep the air clean, at the rate we were going, air quality around the world would degrade to the point that it would be almost un-breathable. I would like to see Trumps science back up his claims for air pollution, or even your science if you have any, or any other Republicans for that matter that don't agree with it. I know science isn't your strong suit nor is it Trump's.

Everyone besides you knows it is impossible to keep the air clean. See I can use the same fallacy you used.

Air quality is already going down the drain regardless of our efforts. This treaty wasn't planning on making a huge impact in anything other than a small integer of global temperatures.

The Paris treaty isn't science, it is a political plan, not scientific theory. It may have science at its roots, but it is not scientific theory or fact itself. Climate scientist are unable to track the direct paths of Hurricanes but claim to know the ending effect of a global effort to reduce the growing temperatures of the Earth... Scientifically that plan cannot yield reliable results since we cannot possibly attribute every single contextual circumstance that effects climate within a computer model. It is perhaps our best educated guess given our limits with our knowledge and technology, but don't sit there and act like the Paris treaty is fact. It is not.

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#9954 Edited by Cable_Extreme (15080 posts) - - Show Bio

@cable_extreme: What is Trump's reasoning for not believing in air pollution? Where is his science, in school we couldn't present a problem to a math equation without showing our work, let Trump show us his work and then maybe I can take him seriously on the matter.

I don't speak for Trump, the Paris Treaty was a plan with good intentions but it failed before it even started with no enforcement what so ever. It is like me telling everyone I am going to diet and lose 10 pounds, whether or not I actually do it is a completely different thing. Habits within a country will never be changed without enforcement.

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#9955 Posted by Cable_Extreme (15080 posts) - - Show Bio

@cable_extreme: Trump always claims how smart he is, and that he went to the best schools, but doesn't even know that Fredrick Douglas died centuries ago, Trump thought he was still alive.

His verb tense wasn't 100% correct, it doesn't mean he doesn't know who Fredrick Douglas is.

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#9956 Posted by willpayton (20135 posts) - - Show Bio

@willpayton said:
@cable_extreme said:
@willpayton said:

In case anyone didnt notice, the U.S. is now officially the only country in the world that rejects the Paris Climate Agreement.

We got to lead the pack out of bad plans.

I guess that's one spin on it. But, since the pack, and by pack I mean the entire world, is going the other way by following science and rational thought, all we're doing is burying our heads in the sand. And the really sad part is that most of the U.S. supports the Paris agreement and supports being proactive and a leader towards climate change. But we have been hijacked by a minority who rejects science, and a "leader" who most people in this country disapprove of and didnt vote for.

The world pledged that they would follow it, do you believe they will actually follow it?

I see countries seeing the money they are losing and change their mind following the U.S. out of the Treaty. I guess we will see.

Dealing with climate change wont lose money for countries, it's not dealing with it that will cause them problems. Yes money has to be spent to deal with issues now, but there will also be new technologies, new industries, and new money to be made by moving to renewable cleaner energy sources... and those countries that start doing this now will be in a better position to make that money and be the leaders in those industries. This is why countries like Germany and Japan are now world leaders in solar tech, when it was the U.S. that pioneered and invented much of that technology. We stopped investing in it and now we're buying solar panels from Germany. This is the kind of thing that will happen more and more, and in 50 years if we ignore this problem then we'll be sending money to China because they'll be the ones benefiting from their decades of head start while we still have obsolete and dirty industries that cant compete.

We should listen to what the smartest and most knowledgeable people on the planet are telling us, not what the ignorant ones like Trump are saying. Trump only cares about his own ego and wallet. A good tax plan for him is one where he ends up making more money, and where he can leave his money to his family without having to pay estate tax. What's good for the country doesnt even figure into that. Same with climate change. All he cares about is what pads his wallet and what will placate the ignorant people who vote for him. This is the guy who said that climate change is a Chinese hoax.

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#9957 Posted by willpayton (20135 posts) - - Show Bio

Beyond that there was no punishment for countries who didn't actually follow the treaty, there is no enforcement which makes it meaningless in the first place.

Maybe those countries including the U.S. under Obama agreed to it because it's not meaningless and because in spite of it being voluntary they all see how climate change is a huge problem and we have to start doing something now, even if a non-binding agreement is the first step.
Who are you going to believe and put your trust on? The worlds top scientists and experts who are working for the betterment of the planet, or Donald "who knew health care could be so complicated" Trump?

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#9958 Posted by destinyman75 (9598 posts) - - Show Bio

@willpayton: Testify. I'll take common sense and scientist work over Trump for 400 alex

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#9959 Posted by Cable_Extreme (15080 posts) - - Show Bio

@cable_extreme said:

Beyond that there was no punishment for countries who didn't actually follow the treaty, there is no enforcement which makes it meaningless in the first place.

Maybe those countries including the U.S. under Obama agreed to it because it's not meaningless and because in spite of it being voluntary they all see how climate change is a huge problem and we have to start doing something now, even if a non-binding agreement is the first step.
Who are you going to believe and put your trust on? The worlds top scientists and experts who are working for the betterment of the planet, or Donald "who knew health care could be so complicated" Trump?

I don't think you can speak towards their intentions.

Your second question is misleading, the Paris agreement is not scientific fact. We don't know whether or not it would be successful even if we all followed it to the letter. Scientist are not Gods who know the outcome of theoretical computer simulated models. These climate scientist can't even predict the path of a hurricane, much less the global temperatures 100 years from now.... They really are stroking their own egos with this treaty.

You cannot act like this treaty was going to be successful in the first place, the moment any country felt any economic strain, they would have no incentive to continue their green plans. If they imposed higher interest rates, higher tariffs, reduced trade etc... on countries who were not helping or involved then I could see it being more effective.

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#9960 Edited by Cable_Extreme (15080 posts) - - Show Bio

@willpayton said:
@cable_extreme said:
@willpayton said:
@cable_extreme said:
@willpayton said:

In case anyone didnt notice, the U.S. is now officially the only country in the world that rejects the Paris Climate Agreement.

We got to lead the pack out of bad plans.

I guess that's one spin on it. But, since the pack, and by pack I mean the entire world, is going the other way by following science and rational thought, all we're doing is burying our heads in the sand. And the really sad part is that most of the U.S. supports the Paris agreement and supports being proactive and a leader towards climate change. But we have been hijacked by a minority who rejects science, and a "leader" who most people in this country disapprove of and didnt vote for.

The world pledged that they would follow it, do you believe they will actually follow it?

I see countries seeing the money they are losing and change their mind following the U.S. out of the Treaty. I guess we will see.

Dealing with climate change wont lose money for countries, it's not dealing with it that will cause them problems. Yes money has to be spent to deal with issues now, but there will also be new technologies, new industries, and new money to be made by moving to renewable cleaner energy sources... and those countries that start doing this now will be in a better position to make that money and be the leaders in those industries. This is why countries like Germany and Japan are now world leaders in solar tech, when it was the U.S. that pioneered and invented much of that technology. We stopped investing in it and now we're buying solar panels from Germany. This is the kind of thing that will happen more and more, and in 50 years if we ignore this problem then we'll be sending money to China because they'll be the ones benefiting from their decades of head start while we still have obsolete and dirty industries that cant compete.

We should listen to what the smartest and most knowledgeable people on the planet are telling us, not what the ignorant ones like Trump are saying. Trump only cares about his own ego and wallet. A good tax plan for him is one where he ends up making more money, and where he can leave his money to his family without having to pay estate tax. What's good for the country doesnt even figure into that. Same with climate change. All he cares about is what pads his wallet and what will placate the ignorant people who vote for him. This is the guy who said that climate change is a Chinese hoax.

The U.S. is one of the leaders in solar as well, looking at the graphs, we are doing pretty well with solar. If green energy becomes cheaper and more effective than other forms of energy, that is good, it is capitalism.

These people aren't the smartest or most knowledgeable. They are smart in their field of study but not smarter in general. A scientific prediction, "a hypothesis" that cannot be tested immediately is not scientific fact. They are stepping way out of the scientific comfort zone by saying "if you do this, we are certain this will happen"...... That is not science, that is faith.

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#9961 Posted by just_sayin (1525 posts) - - Show Bio

@cable_extreme said:
@willpayton said:
@cable_extreme said:
@willpayton said:

In case anyone didnt notice, the U.S. is now officially the only country in the world that rejects the Paris Climate Agreement.

We got to lead the pack out of bad plans.

I guess that's one spin on it. But, since the pack, and by pack I mean the entire world, is going the other way by following science and rational thought, all we're doing is burying our heads in the sand. And the really sad part is that most of the U.S. supports the Paris agreement and supports being proactive and a leader towards climate change. But we have been hijacked by a minority who rejects science, and a "leader" who most people in this country disapprove of and didnt vote for.

The world pledged that they would follow it, do you believe they will actually follow it?

I see countries seeing the money they are losing and change their mind following the U.S. out of the Treaty. I guess we will see.

Dealing with climate change wont lose money for countries, it's not dealing with it that will cause them problems. Yes money has to be spent to deal with issues now, but there will also be new technologies, new industries, and new money to be made by moving to renewable cleaner energy sources... and those countries that start doing this now will be in a better position to make that money and be the leaders in those industries. This is why countries like Germany and Japan are now world leaders in solar tech, when it was the U.S. that pioneered and invented much of that technology. We stopped investing in it and now we're buying solar panels from Germany. This is the kind of thing that will happen more and more, and in 50 years if we ignore this problem then we'll be sending money to China because they'll be the ones benefiting from their decades of head start while we still have obsolete and dirty industries that cant compete.

We should listen to what the smartest and most knowledgeable people on the planet are telling us, not what the ignorant ones like Trump are saying. Trump only cares about his own ego and wallet. A good tax plan for him is one where he ends up making more money, and where he can leave his money to his family without having to pay estate tax. What's good for the country doesnt even figure into that. Same with climate change. All he cares about is what pads his wallet and what will placate the ignorant people who vote for him. This is the guy who said that climate change is a Chinese hoax.

Several studies from a wide range of sources have indicated that implementation of the Clean energy plan will cost up to 2.5 trillion dollars in lost GDP. That it will cost millions of jobs - most specifically located in the rust belt states. Further that it will cost the poorest of the poor about 25 - 40% of their take home pay in increased costs. And for what? According to the EPA it will change the projected temperature by .001 degree Celsius. That's not a good deal, @willpayton. Maybe you are unintentionally lying about what the costs will be. Maybe you are intentionally lying. Who knows? But the costs will be substantial without significant technological advances.

Solar and wind get around 176 billion dollars in crony capitalism currently in the US and the both of them together don't account for 5% of the US energy output. Crony Capitalism is not something we should be doing. And certainly not for that small of a return.

You are correct that Germany has made tremendous strides in renewable energy. I think they make up about 1/3 of its energy output. That's awesome. But at what cost? According to the costs for individuals and on business have been astronomical.

The transformation is placing a heavy burden on its citizens. Germany spent 25 billion euros ($26 billion) on renewable energy in 2016, most of which—23 billion euros—consumers paid through a surcharge on their electricity bills. The rise in that surcharge is the single biggest reason that the amount the average German household spent on electricity rose to 1,060 euros in 2016, up 50% from 2007.

And what progress did they make for all that expense?

And yet, for all its progress toward renewable energy, Germany isn’t on track to meet its underlying environmental goal. The objective motivating Germany’s current green push—to slash the country’s emissions of planet-warming greenhouse gases—appears in doubt. Germany, long a cheerleader for more-aggressive international climate targets, has pledged to cut its carbon emissions 40% below 1990 levels by 2020, one of the boldest targets in the world.

Yet Germany’s greenhouse gas emissions, according to estimates, rose in 2015 and probably in 2016 too. With the 2020 goal looming, Germany finds itself in the sticky situation of having cut its carbon emissions only 27% from 1990 levels.

So the average German citizen's energy bill has risen $1,236.44 annually and yet the greenhouse emissions are still RISING.

I know you'd rather make fun of Trump, but he is right that the current Clean Energy Plan is bad for the US and hurts the poorest of the poor.

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#9962 Edited by Pyrogram (46296 posts) - - Show Bio

@just_sayin said:
@willpayton said:
@cable_extreme said:
@willpayton said:
@cable_extreme said:
@willpayton said:

In case anyone didnt notice, the U.S. is now officially the only country in the world that rejects the Paris Climate Agreement.

We got to lead the pack out of bad plans.

I guess that's one spin on it. But, since the pack, and by pack I mean the entire world, is going the other way by following science and rational thought, all we're doing is burying our heads in the sand. And the really sad part is that most of the U.S. supports the Paris agreement and supports being proactive and a leader towards climate change. But we have been hijacked by a minority who rejects science, and a "leader" who most people in this country disapprove of and didnt vote for.

The world pledged that they would follow it, do you believe they will actually follow it?

I see countries seeing the money they are losing and change their mind following the U.S. out of the Treaty. I guess we will see.

Dealing with climate change wont lose money for countries, it's not dealing with it that will cause them problems. Yes money has to be spent to deal with issues now, but there will also be new technologies, new industries, and new money to be made by moving to renewable cleaner energy sources... and those countries that start doing this now will be in a better position to make that money and be the leaders in those industries. This is why countries like Germany and Japan are now world leaders in solar tech, when it was the U.S. that pioneered and invented much of that technology. We stopped investing in it and now we're buying solar panels from Germany. This is the kind of thing that will happen more and more, and in 50 years if we ignore this problem then we'll be sending money to China because they'll be the ones benefiting from their decades of head start while we still have obsolete and dirty industries that cant compete.

We should listen to what the smartest and most knowledgeable people on the planet are telling us, not what the ignorant ones like Trump are saying. Trump only cares about his own ego and wallet. A good tax plan for him is one where he ends up making more money, and where he can leave his money to his family without having to pay estate tax. What's good for the country doesnt even figure into that. Same with climate change. All he cares about is what pads his wallet and what will placate the ignorant people who vote for him. This is the guy who said that climate change is a Chinese hoax.

Several studies from a wide range of sources have indicated that implementation of the Clean energy plan will cost up to 2.5 trillion dollars in lost GDP. That it will cost millions of jobs - most specifically located in the rust belt states. Further that it will cost the poorest of the poor about 25 - 40% of their take home pay in increased costs. And for what? According to the EPA it will change the projected temperature by .001 degree Celsius. That's not a good deal, @willpayton. Maybe you are unintentionally lying about what the costs will be. Maybe you are intentionally lying. Who knows? But the costs will be substantial without significant technological advances.

Solar and wind get around 176 billion dollars in crony capitalism currently in the US and the both of them together don't account for 5% of the US energy output. Crony Capitalism is not something we should be doing. And certainly not for that small of a return.

You are correct that Germany has made tremendous strides in renewable energy. I think they make up about 1/3 of its energy output. That's awesome. But at what cost? According to the costs for individuals and on business have been astronomical.

The transformation is placing a heavy burden on its citizens. Germany spent 25 billion euros ($26 billion) on renewable energy in 2016, most of which—23 billion euros—consumers paid through a surcharge on their electricity bills. The rise in that surcharge is the single biggest reason that the amount the average German household spent on electricity rose to 1,060 euros in 2016, up 50% from 2007.

And what progress did they make for all that expense?

And yet, for all its progress toward renewable energy, Germany isn’t on track to meet its underlying environmental goal. The objective motivating Germany’s current green push—to slash the country’s emissions of planet-warming greenhouse gases—appears in doubt. Germany, long a cheerleader for more-aggressive international climate targets, has pledged to cut its carbon emissions 40% below 1990 levels by 2020, one of the boldest targets in the world.

Yet Germany’s greenhouse gas emissions, according to estimates, rose in 2015 and probably in 2016 too. With the 2020 goal looming, Germany finds itself in the sticky situation of having cut its carbon emissions only 27% from 1990 levels.

So the average German citizen's energy bill has risen $1,236.44 annually and yet the greenhouse emissions are still RISING.

I know you'd rather make fun of Trump, but he is right that the current Clean Energy Plan is bad for the US and hurts the poorest of the poor.

hurts the poorest of the poor

Global Warming will hurt them infinitely more... That's literally the biggest point of trying to reduce it.

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#9963 Posted by Cable_Extreme (15080 posts) - - Show Bio

@pyrogram said:
@just_sayin said:
@willpayton said:
@cable_extreme said:
@willpayton said:
@cable_extreme said:
@willpayton said:

In case anyone didnt notice, the U.S. is now officially the only country in the world that rejects the Paris Climate Agreement.

We got to lead the pack out of bad plans.

I guess that's one spin on it. But, since the pack, and by pack I mean the entire world, is going the other way by following science and rational thought, all we're doing is burying our heads in the sand. And the really sad part is that most of the U.S. supports the Paris agreement and supports being proactive and a leader towards climate change. But we have been hijacked by a minority who rejects science, and a "leader" who most people in this country disapprove of and didnt vote for.

The world pledged that they would follow it, do you believe they will actually follow it?

I see countries seeing the money they are losing and change their mind following the U.S. out of the Treaty. I guess we will see.

Dealing with climate change wont lose money for countries, it's not dealing with it that will cause them problems. Yes money has to be spent to deal with issues now, but there will also be new technologies, new industries, and new money to be made by moving to renewable cleaner energy sources... and those countries that start doing this now will be in a better position to make that money and be the leaders in those industries. This is why countries like Germany and Japan are now world leaders in solar tech, when it was the U.S. that pioneered and invented much of that technology. We stopped investing in it and now we're buying solar panels from Germany. This is the kind of thing that will happen more and more, and in 50 years if we ignore this problem then we'll be sending money to China because they'll be the ones benefiting from their decades of head start while we still have obsolete and dirty industries that cant compete.

We should listen to what the smartest and most knowledgeable people on the planet are telling us, not what the ignorant ones like Trump are saying. Trump only cares about his own ego and wallet. A good tax plan for him is one where he ends up making more money, and where he can leave his money to his family without having to pay estate tax. What's good for the country doesnt even figure into that. Same with climate change. All he cares about is what pads his wallet and what will placate the ignorant people who vote for him. This is the guy who said that climate change is a Chinese hoax.

Several studies from a wide range of sources have indicated that implementation of the Clean energy plan will cost up to 2.5 trillion dollars in lost GDP. That it will cost millions of jobs - most specifically located in the rust belt states. Further that it will cost the poorest of the poor about 25 - 40% of their take home pay in increased costs. And for what? According to the EPA it will change the projected temperature by .001 degree Celsius. That's not a good deal, @willpayton. Maybe you are unintentionally lying about what the costs will be. Maybe you are intentionally lying. Who knows? But the costs will be substantial without significant technological advances.

Solar and wind get around 176 billion dollars in crony capitalism currently in the US and the both of them together don't account for 5% of the US energy output. Crony Capitalism is not something we should be doing. And certainly not for that small of a return.

You are correct that Germany has made tremendous strides in renewable energy. I think they make up about 1/3 of its energy output. That's awesome. But at what cost? According to the costs for individuals and on business have been astronomical.

The transformation is placing a heavy burden on its citizens. Germany spent 25 billion euros ($26 billion) on renewable energy in 2016, most of which—23 billion euros—consumers paid through a surcharge on their electricity bills. The rise in that surcharge is the single biggest reason that the amount the average German household spent on electricity rose to 1,060 euros in 2016, up 50% from 2007.

And what progress did they make for all that expense?

And yet, for all its progress toward renewable energy, Germany isn’t on track to meet its underlying environmental goal. The objective motivating Germany’s current green push—to slash the country’s emissions of planet-warming greenhouse gases—appears in doubt. Germany, long a cheerleader for more-aggressive international climate targets, has pledged to cut its carbon emissions 40% below 1990 levels by 2020, one of the boldest targets in the world.

Yet Germany’s greenhouse gas emissions, according to estimates, rose in 2015 and probably in 2016 too. With the 2020 goal looming, Germany finds itself in the sticky situation of having cut its carbon emissions only 27% from 1990 levels.

So the average German citizen's energy bill has risen $1,236.44 annually and yet the greenhouse emissions are still RISING.

I know you'd rather make fun of Trump, but he is right that the current Clean Energy Plan is bad for the US and hurts the poorest of the poor.

hurts the poorest of the poor

Global Warming will hurt them infinitely more... That's literally the biggest point of trying to reduce it.

Did you read the point he made?

So the average German citizen's energy bill has risen $1,236.44 annually and yet the greenhouse emissions are still RISING

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#9964 Posted by just_sayin (1525 posts) - - Show Bio

@pyrogram said:

hurts the poorest of the poor

Global Warming will hurt them infinitely more... That's literally the biggest point of trying to reduce it.

No it won't. The Clean Power Plan runs through 2030. The projected change in temperature from it is .001 degree Celsius. We don't even have the technology that can verify to that amount if our efforts even did any good. The poor will most definitely be hurt more when 25% - 40% of their take home pay is missing from increased costs related to increased energy bills. They won't notice .001 degree Celsius but they will DEFINITELY notice a missing 25% of their take home pay.

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#9965 Posted by willpayton (20135 posts) - - Show Bio

The U.S. is one of the leaders in solar as well, looking at the graphs, we are doing pretty well with solar. If green energy becomes cheaper and more effective than other forms of energy, that is good, it is capitalism.

These people aren't the smartest or most knowledgeable. They are smart in their field of study but not smarter in general. A scientific prediction, "a hypothesis" that cannot be tested immediately is not scientific fact. They are stepping way out of the scientific comfort zone by saying "if you do this, we are certain this will happen"...... That is not science, that is faith.

You should apply your healthy skepticism to the guy who said that climate change is a Chinese hoax.

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#9966 Posted by willpayton (20135 posts) - - Show Bio
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#9967 Posted by Cable_Extreme (15080 posts) - - Show Bio

@cable_extreme said:

The U.S. is one of the leaders in solar as well, looking at the graphs, we are doing pretty well with solar. If green energy becomes cheaper and more effective than other forms of energy, that is good, it is capitalism.

These people aren't the smartest or most knowledgeable. They are smart in their field of study but not smarter in general. A scientific prediction, "a hypothesis" that cannot be tested immediately is not scientific fact. They are stepping way out of the scientific comfort zone by saying "if you do this, we are certain this will happen"...... That is not science, that is faith.

You should apply your healthy skepticism to the guy who said that climate change is a Chinese hoax.

Didn't he also say he was joking about that?

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#9968 Posted by Cable_Extreme (15080 posts) - - Show Bio

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Two former top U.S. intelligence officials said on Sunday they fear President Donald Trump is being manipulated by Russian President Vladimir Putin, after Trump said he believed Putin was sincere in denying Russian meddling in the 2016 election.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-russia/former-intelligence-officials-say-trump-is-being-manipulated-by-putin-idUSKBN1DC0TV

Liberals are still clinging onto RUSSIAN collusion, the election has been over for almost a year now.

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#9969 Posted by willpayton (20135 posts) - - Show Bio

@willpayton said:
@cable_extreme said:

The U.S. is one of the leaders in solar as well, looking at the graphs, we are doing pretty well with solar. If green energy becomes cheaper and more effective than other forms of energy, that is good, it is capitalism.

These people aren't the smartest or most knowledgeable. They are smart in their field of study but not smarter in general. A scientific prediction, "a hypothesis" that cannot be tested immediately is not scientific fact. They are stepping way out of the scientific comfort zone by saying "if you do this, we are certain this will happen"...... That is not science, that is faith.

You should apply your healthy skepticism to the guy who said that climate change is a Chinese hoax.

Didn't he also say he was joking about that?

What does it matter? Sometimes he says he's being "sarcastic" and then later he says he was being "not that sarcastic", and most of the time he just doubles down on his b.s. When someone lies over and over, it's clear he's a liar. If he then says "oh I didnt mean that", it's pretty much worthless and only makes him seem worse. As far as the climate change stuff, he has repeated his same b.s. many times, just like he has with most of his other lies.

@willpayton said:

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Two former top U.S. intelligence officials said on Sunday they fear President Donald Trump is being manipulated by Russian President Vladimir Putin, after Trump said he believed Putin was sincere in denying Russian meddling in the 2016 election.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-russia/former-intelligence-officials-say-trump-is-being-manipulated-by-putin-idUSKBN1DC0TV

Liberals are still clinging onto RUSSIAN collusion, the election has been over for almost a year now.

So there's an "almost a year now" statute of limitations on facts and crimes now? No, I dont think there is.

And the whole "liberals are still" thing is weak. You're just repeating the same b.s. that Trump and the conservative propaganda networks say. Not helping your case here bro.

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#9970 Posted by Cable_Extreme (15080 posts) - - Show Bio

@willpayton:

What does it matter? Sometimes he says he's being "sarcastic" and then later he says he was being "not that sarcastic", and most of the time he just doubles down on his b.s. When someone lies over and over, it's clear he's a liar. If he then says "oh I didnt mean that", it's pretty much worthless and only makes him seem worse. As far as the climate change stuff, he has repeated his same b.s. many times, just like he has with most of his other lies.

Most of this is just your bias towards Trump. I get it, you do not like the guy. He did say he was joking so yes that does matter.

So there's an "almost a year now" statute of limitations on facts and crimes now? No, I dont think there is.

For many crimes yes there is a statue of limitations. Obviously one year isn't but the media does not prosecute Trump, nor do you. It is the Justice Department that would.

And the whole "liberals are still" thing is weak. You're just repeating the same b.s. that Trump and the conservative propaganda networks say. Not helping your case here bro.

You are right, it is a common saying, borderline propaganda, but it is still true.

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#9971 Posted by willpayton (20135 posts) - - Show Bio

Apparently climate change is not the only thing that every other world leader has figured out, that Trump has trouble with.

No Caption Provided

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#9972 Posted by Lunacyde (26870 posts) - - Show Bio

How about this Roy Moore race.

Moderator
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#9973 Edited by just_sayin (1525 posts) - - Show Bio

@lunacyde said:

How about this Roy Moore race.

I think Republicans need to be careful that they don't act like evil Democrats. When Juanita Broadrick came forward about Bill Clinton raping her in her motel room in 1978, most Democrats sided with the rapist. When Kathleen Willey came forward with her story that Bill Clinton had groped her, Democrats chose to believe the groper. In 1994, when it came to light that Bill Clinton made an unwanted sexual assault against Paul Jones the Democrats sided with the assaulter and called the victim "trailer park trash". When Bill Clinton denied having sex with Monica Lewinsky just as his semen was confirmed on her blue dress, many Democrats said that it was only about consensual sex - even though it was actually about witness tampering and obstruction of justice in the Paul Jones lawsuit.

In the Roy Moore case there does appear to be credible corroborating evidence to support the testimony of the woman. As much as I would like to have a Republican in the Alabama senate seat, I despise the idea of electing a guy who groped a 14 year old girl more. I implore Republicans everywhere to not behave like a Democrat and instead put integrity ahead of party. Again, don't be a Democrat, instead do the right thing.

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#9974 Posted by Sergeant-RL3 (2090 posts) - - Show Bio

He's poorly spoken.

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#9975 Edited by Lunacyde (26870 posts) - - Show Bio

@just_sayin: I agree, the same mistakes shouldn't be made again. I don't know the facts of those cases, but I've never been a fan of Bill Clinton, and any cover ups perpetrated in his name are morally repugnant. Then again I'm not a Democrat, I'm registered independent, so I have no interest in making this a bit for tat argument.

The fact people are flat out attacking the alleged victims, increasing their support for Moore, and saying it isn't a big deal are all concerning to me.

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#9976 Posted by willpayton (20135 posts) - - Show Bio

@lunacyde said:

How about this Roy Moore race.

I think Republicans need to be careful that they don't act like evil Democrats.

I'd be ok if they didnt act like typical Republicans.

When Juanita Broadrick came forward about Bill Clinton raping her in her motel room in 1978, most Democrats sided with the rapist. When Kathleen Willey came forward with her story that Bill Clinton had groped her, Democrats chose to believe the groper. In 1994, when it came to light that Bill Clinton made an unwanted sexual assault against Paul Jones the Democrats sided with the assaulter and called the victim "trailer park trash". When Bill Clinton denied having sex with Monica Lewinsky just as his semen was confirmed on her blue dress, many Democrats said that it was only about consensual sex - even though it was actually about witness tampering and obstruction of justice in the Paul Jones lawsuit.

In the Roy Moore case there does appear to be credible corroborating evidence to support the testimony of the woman. As much as I would like to have a Republican in the Alabama senate seat, I despise the idea of electing a guy who groped a 14 year old girl more. I implore Republicans everywhere to not behave like a Democrat and instead put integrity ahead of party. Again, don't be a Democrat, instead do the right thing.

It's funny you write all this and spend your time defending and making excuses for Trump, who was accused of doing this stuff to at least a dozen women, and is on tape admitting to it. A guy who was accused of rape by his own ex-wife.

I guess your moral standards only apply to other people.

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#9977 Edited by just_sayin (1525 posts) - - Show Bio

@just_sayin said:
@lunacyde said:

How about this Roy Moore race.

I think Republicans need to be careful that they don't act like evil Democrats.

I'd be ok if they didnt act like typical Republicans.

@just_sayin said:

When Juanita Broadrick came forward about Bill Clinton raping her in her motel room in 1978, most Democrats sided with the rapist. When Kathleen Willey came forward with her story that Bill Clinton had groped her, Democrats chose to believe the groper. In 1994, when it came to light that Bill Clinton made an unwanted sexual assault against Paul Jones the Democrats sided with the assaulter and called the victim "trailer park trash". When Bill Clinton denied having sex with Monica Lewinsky just as his semen was confirmed on her blue dress, many Democrats said that it was only about consensual sex - even though it was actually about witness tampering and obstruction of justice in the Paul Jones lawsuit.

In the Roy Moore case there does appear to be credible corroborating evidence to support the testimony of the woman. As much as I would like to have a Republican in the Alabama senate seat, I despise the idea of electing a guy who groped a 14 year old girl more. I implore Republicans everywhere to not behave like a Democrat and instead put integrity ahead of party. Again, don't be a Democrat, instead do the right thing.

It's funny you write all this and spend your time defending and making excuses for Trump, who was accused of doing this stuff to at least a dozen women, and is on tape admitting to it. A guy who was accused of rape by his own ex-wife.

I guess your moral standards only apply to other people.

I certainly hope Republicans never become as immoral as Democrats. Today there is a report in the NY Post how Democrats refuse to say if Democrat Bob Menendez should step down even if he is convicted of bribery and sex with underage hookers. The underage hooker allegation is not some 40 year old story that just now came to light but comes from an FBI corruption report. That says a lot about how immoral Democrats are. Republicans are condemning Moore or saying that if the allegations are true that he should step down. But Democrats aren't doing the same for Bob Menendez. Is it a double standard? Of course. But we should accept it. I never want a Republican to stoop to Democrat level behavior.

Above you mentioned Trump's ex-wife. Did you mean the same ex-wife who later said that she was never raped and endorsed him for president?

http://nypost.com/2015/07/29/ivana-trump-donald-didnt-rape-me-and-hed-be-a-great-president/amp/

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#9978 Posted by willpayton (20135 posts) - - Show Bio

@willpayton said:
@just_sayin said:

When Juanita Broadrick came forward about Bill Clinton raping her in her motel room in 1978, most Democrats sided with the rapist. When Kathleen Willey came forward with her story that Bill Clinton had groped her, Democrats chose to believe the groper. In 1994, when it came to light that Bill Clinton made an unwanted sexual assault against Paul Jones the Democrats sided with the assaulter and called the victim "trailer park trash". When Bill Clinton denied having sex with Monica Lewinsky just as his semen was confirmed on her blue dress, many Democrats said that it was only about consensual sex - even though it was actually about witness tampering and obstruction of justice in the Paul Jones lawsuit.

In the Roy Moore case there does appear to be credible corroborating evidence to support the testimony of the woman. As much as I would like to have a Republican in the Alabama senate seat, I despise the idea of electing a guy who groped a 14 year old girl more. I implore Republicans everywhere to not behave like a Democrat and instead put integrity ahead of party. Again, don't be a Democrat, instead do the right thing.

It's funny you write all this and spend your time defending and making excuses for Trump, who was accused of doing this stuff to at least a dozen women, and is on tape admitting to it. A guy who was accused of rape by his own ex-wife.

I guess your moral standards only apply to other people.

I certainly hope Republicans never become as immoral as Democrats. Today there is a report in the NY Post how Democrats refuse to say if Democrat Bob Menendez should step down even if he is convicted of bribery and sex with underage hookers. The underage hooker allegation is not some 40 year old story that just now came to light but comes from an FBI corruption report. That says a lot about how immoral Democrats are. Republicans are condemning Moore or saying that if the allegations are true that he should step down. But Democrats aren't doing the same for Bob Menendez. Is it a double standard? Of course. But we should accept it. I never want a Republican to stoop to Democrat level behavior.

Above you mentioned Trump's ex-wife. Did you mean the same ex-wife who later said that she was never raped and endorsed him for president?

http://nypost.com/2015/07/29/ivana-trump-donald-didnt-rape-me-and-hed-be-a-great-president/amp/

You really live in your own little world dont you? Your bias and blinders are amazing. You continue to ignore all the evil that Republicans are doing from enabling someone like Trump who is actively destroying our country and the office of President, to subverting our democracy and electoral system, to promoting racists and white supremacists, but somehow to you all Democrats are evil. Simply... amazing. You are the perfect Trump voter, someone who's more interested in demonizing anyone who doesnt agree with you, than in looking at facts and reason.

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#9979 Posted by CyborgZod (622 posts) - - Show Bio

@just_sayin: You are really earning your Rubles comrade. Your commitment to b.s. is truly impressive. Republicans are really the worst. There was just a poll of people in Alabama after the allegations against Moore and 29% said they were MORE likely to vote for this guy after hearing that he tried to have sex with young girls.

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#9980 Posted by just_sayin (1525 posts) - - Show Bio

@just_sayin said:
@willpayton said:
@just_sayin said:

When Juanita Broadrick came forward about Bill Clinton raping her in her motel room in 1978, most Democrats sided with the rapist. When Kathleen Willey came forward with her story that Bill Clinton had groped her, Democrats chose to believe the groper. In 1994, when it came to light that Bill Clinton made an unwanted sexual assault against Paul Jones the Democrats sided with the assaulter and called the victim "trailer park trash". When Bill Clinton denied having sex with Monica Lewinsky just as his semen was confirmed on her blue dress, many Democrats said that it was only about consensual sex - even though it was actually about witness tampering and obstruction of justice in the Paul Jones lawsuit.

In the Roy Moore case there does appear to be credible corroborating evidence to support the testimony of the woman. As much as I would like to have a Republican in the Alabama senate seat, I despise the idea of electing a guy who groped a 14 year old girl more. I implore Republicans everywhere to not behave like a Democrat and instead put integrity ahead of party. Again, don't be a Democrat, instead do the right thing.

It's funny you write all this and spend your time defending and making excuses for Trump, who was accused of doing this stuff to at least a dozen women, and is on tape admitting to it. A guy who was accused of rape by his own ex-wife.

I guess your moral standards only apply to other people.

I certainly hope Republicans never become as immoral as Democrats. Today there is a report in the NY Post how Democrats refuse to say if Democrat Bob Menendez should step down even if he is convicted of bribery and sex with underage hookers. The underage hooker allegation is not some 40 year old story that just now came to light but comes from an FBI corruption report. That says a lot about how immoral Democrats are. Republicans are condemning Moore or saying that if the allegations are true that he should step down. But Democrats aren't doing the same for Bob Menendez. Is it a double standard? Of course. But we should accept it. I never want a Republican to stoop to Democrat level behavior.

Above you mentioned Trump's ex-wife. Did you mean the same ex-wife who later said that she was never raped and endorsed him for president?

http://nypost.com/2015/07/29/ivana-trump-donald-didnt-rape-me-and-hed-be-a-great-president/amp/

You really live in your own little world dont you? Your bias and blinders are amazing. You continue to ignore all the evil that Republicans are doing from enabling someone like Trump who is actively destroying our country and the office of President, to subverting our democracy and electoral system, to promoting racists and white supremacists, but somehow to you all Democrats are evil. Simply... amazing. You are the perfect Trump voter, someone who's more interested in demonizing anyone who doesnt agree with you, than in looking at facts and reason.

I live in my own little world? @willpayton, you just falsely accused Trump of raping his ex-wife. I bet you think its OK to demonize him because he is "evil" in your eyes. So, its OK to falsely accuse someone of rape, if they don't agree politically with @willpayton.

Promoting racists? @willpayton, I am the one consistently arguing that it is wrong to discriminate against someone because of the color of their skin. And yes, I think those that discriminate against someone because of the color of their skin are immoral. Democrats support policies and laws that openly discriminate against whites and Asians in college admissions, jobs, school grants, and federal contracting opportunities. Why do you ignore your parties codified racism?

On issue after issue, it is you on your high horse. You ignore the harm to the economy and the great financial burden placed on the poor from the Clean Power Plan and instead resort to statements like "Trump wants to pollute the air and water". Because anyone who doesn't want to spend 2.5 trillion in GDP for .001 degree Celsisus change in temperature must want to pollute the air and water.

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#9981 Posted by just_sayin (1525 posts) - - Show Bio

@just_sayin: You are really earning your Rubles comrade. Your commitment to b.s. is truly impressive. Republicans are really the worst. There was just a poll of people in Alabama after the allegations against Moore and 29% said they were MORE likely to vote for this guy after hearing that he tried to have sex with young girls.

I'm earning my rubles?!! Will I get as much as the Democrats paid Russia for the Trump Dossier? That would be a lot of rubles.

You know full well the reason some in Alabama are more likely to vote for Moore since the allegations is because of the low character of the media. People don't trust them. They have lost all credibility and when people hear of surprise allegations this close to the election they assume the media is lying again. And who could blame them?

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#9982 Edited by Lunacyde (26870 posts) - - Show Bio

@just_sayin: How do you figure that it is a false accusation? His former wife testified to it under oath, then later corroborated that she had done so, but added that she didn't mean rape in a criminal sense. She also said that as a woman she felt violated. She didn't want to press charges, which is fine, but lets not kid ourselves to believe he did not force himself onto her in a manner that she did not want.

Also this ALL Republicans, ALL Democrats garbage is getting tedious.

Moderator
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#9983 Posted by willpayton (20135 posts) - - Show Bio

I live in my own little world? @willpayton, you just falsely accused Trump of raping his ex-wife. I bet you think its OK to demonize him because he is "evil" in your eyes. So, its OK to falsely accuse someone of rape, if they don't agree politically with @willpayton.

Your reading comprehension skills are not very good dude. I never accused Trump of anything, I just pointed out that his ex-wife accused him of raping her, just like I pointed out that about a dozen other women accused him of sexually assaulting them.

Those are facts. Accusations are what you're doing. Demonizing is what you're doing. You're labeling people you dont even know anything about as being "evil" and "racist". Saying that Trump is a scumbag is not demonizing because it's based on the facts and his own words. The guy you love and keep making excuses for is a scumbag. Deal with it. What that says about you... I'll let you figure it out as you look into the mirror.

You also seem to be getting very agitated. I suggest some deep breaths and counting to 10.

Promoting racists? @willpayton, I am the one consistently arguing that it is wrong to discriminate against someone because of the color of their skin. And yes, I think those that discriminate against someone because of the color of their skin are immoral. Democrats support policies and laws that openly discriminate against whites and Asians in college admissions, jobs, school grants, and federal contracting opportunities. Why do you ignore your parties codified racism?

My parties' racism? Again with the reading comprehension issues. I'm not a Democrat, so how is it "my party"? Please quote me, even once, where I've said I'm a Democrat? In fact, I've said several times over the years here that I'm independent. I suppose you're making the mistake of thinking that there's only 2 sides to every issue. If I dont like what Republicans are doing, then I MUST BE A DEMOCRAT. Sorry, but your simple-minded way of thinking about the world just doesnt work. I dont have to belong to one political party to be critical of a different one.

Second, the policies vis-a-vis college admissions are debatable. I happen to be against affirmative action because I think we can achieve success for minorities in other ways. I'm also sure many Democrats agree with that. But, you dont care about what some Democrats think because you're already said that all Democrats are "evil", categorically. Your words, not mine. Subtleties are not your strong suit.

On issue after issue, it is you on your high horse. You ignore the harm to the economy and the great financial burden placed on the poor from the Clean Power Plan and instead resort to statements like "Trump wants to pollute the air and water". Because anyone who doesn't want to spend 2.5 trillion in GDP for .001 degree Celsisus change in temperature must want to pollute the air and water.

I havent ignored anything. Again, you cant make a logical argument so you resort to distorting the truth and making false claims.

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#9984 Posted by just_sayin (1525 posts) - - Show Bio

@lunacyde said:

@just_sayin: How do you figure that it is a false accusation? His former wife testified to it under oath, then later corroborated that she had done so, but added that she didn't mean rape in a criminal sense. She also said that as a woman she felt violated. She didn't want to press charges, which is fine, but lets not kid ourselves to believe he did not force himself onto her in a manner that she did not want.

Also this ALL Republicans, ALL Democrats garbage is getting tedious.

To quote from the NY Post article:

Ivana Trump rushed to the defense of The Donald on Tuesday, recanting a harsh report about their divorce and saying her ex-husband would make an “incredible” president.

“I have recently read some comments attributed to me from nearly 30 years ago at a time of very high tension,” the 66-year-old Czech-American told CNN in response to an article that said Ivana once accused Donald of ­raping her.

“The story is totally without merit,” she said in a statement Tuesday.

So are you suggesting that Democrats are calling for Bob Menendez to step down from his congressional seat like Republicans are calling for Moore to step down? What Democrat has called for him to step down, even though he is currently on trial for bribery and the FBI has alleged he was paying for sex with underage prostitutes? Please tell me their names.

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#9985 Posted by willpayton (20135 posts) - - Show Bio

some in Alabama are more likely to vote for Moore since the allegations is because of the low character of the media. People don't trust them. They have lost all credibility and when people hear of surprise allegations this close to the election they assume the media is lying again. And who could blame them?

A lot of people have been brainwashed into believing the whole "lying media" thing because people like you keep repeating it, and Trump keeps pushing this false and divisive narrative.

Yes there's a lot of really garbage and false media out there, but guess where much of it is? A lot of it is on the conservative side, and their constant attacks on the free media is what has caused this general distrust of the media on the right. I have watched Fox News, Breitbart, and Infowars do it for years, same for conservative radio. So, yeah, there's a lot of false media out there... like the right wing media that kept pushing the Pizza Gate stuff until one of their gun nuts went and shot up a restaurant because he was convinced that Hillary Clinton and the Democrats had some child prostitution ring in the basement. This is what happens when you push the "all Democrats are evil" and "the media is lying" b.s. that you keep spewing.

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#9986 Edited by Cable_Extreme (15080 posts) - - Show Bio

Quit lowballing Trump..... His low-end feats are outweighed by his high-end ones.

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#9987 Posted by Zemoftw (1231 posts) - - Show Bio

I dont hate him.... i just don't like him

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#9988 Edited by Cable_Extreme (15080 posts) - - Show Bio

@zemoftw said:

I dont hate him.... i just love him

Fixed

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#9989 Posted by Zemoftw (1231 posts) - - Show Bio

@cable_extreme: I understand why he gets harsh criticism but i dont think he is the devil or anything. Tbh he seems like a guy that means well but just says the wrong stuff at the wrong time. I dont care for him other than he is now my president, but i don't have a personal vendetta against him either. I guess im neutral on this

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#9990 Posted by Cable_Extreme (15080 posts) - - Show Bio

@zemoftw said:

@cable_extreme: I understand why he gets harsh criticism but i dont think he is the devil or anything. Tbh he seems like a guy that means well but just says the wrong stuff at the wrong time. I dont care for him other than he is now my president, but i don't have a personal vendetta against him either. I guess im neutral on this

Fair enough.

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#9991 Edited by Lunacyde (26870 posts) - - Show Bio

@just_sayin: I just said I'm not a Democrat, so I don't know why you're bringing this up. I also never stated that Democrats were any better than Republicans when it comes to sexual impropriety.Two wrongs don't make a right. I thought I made it pretty clear, any dirt bag who commits sexually predatory behavior is repulsive. Any public official who has done so should step down immediately.

This is a strawman by the way. How you get from saying it's a false accusation to pointing your finger and saying "well they do it too" is beyond me. I appreciate the admission of guilt though.

Moderator
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#9992 Posted by just_sayin (1525 posts) - - Show Bio

@lunacyde said:

@just_sayin: I just said I'm not a Democrat, so I don't know why you're bringing this up. I also never stated that Democrats were any better than Republicans when it comes to sexual impropriety.Two wrongs don't make a right. I thought I made it pretty clear, any dirt bag who commits sexually predatory behavior is repulsive. Any public official who has done so should step down immediately.

This is a strawman by the way. How you get from saying it's a false accusation to pointing your finger and saying "well they do it too" is beyond me. I appreciate the admission of guilt though.

I bring this up because of your "All Democrats, All Republicans" line. The point I made earlier is that many Republicans have condemned Roy Moore or at least said that if he is guilty he should step down. Where is this on the Democrat side? Right now Democrat Bob Menendez is on trial for bribery. Allegations of paying under age prostitutes in another country have been made by the FBI against Bob Menendez. Yet, to my knowledge, not a single congressional Democrat or member of the DNC has even said that if he is found guilty he should step down. In fact when asked they refused to do so. There is a clear double standard there.

For the record, I'm not saying "they did it too". Most Republicans have said that Moore should step aside. Even those who are unsure of his guilty have said that if he is guilty he should step down. That's not how Democrats have handled their scandal. Not a one has said that Menendez, even if found guilty, should step down. That's not "they did it too", but "they did it by themselves."

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#9993 Posted by just_sayin (1525 posts) - - Show Bio

@willpayton: As I think I have told you before, you are more full of crap than a porta potty at the NC state fair after the chili cook-off competition. Let me remind you of your words:

You continue to ignore all the evil that Republicans are doing from enabling someone like Trump who is actively destroying our country and the office of President, to subverting our democracy and electoral system, to promoting racists and white supremacists...

What did @willpayton accuse Republicans of doing? "Evil"????? Say it isn't so!!!!

So you think you are "fair" in characterizations of Donald Trump. In one sentence you accused him of 1) actively destroying our country ("Oh my!"), 2) subverting our democracy and electoral system ("Oh my!"), and 3) Promoting racists and white supremacists ( a George Takei Oh my! for that one).

Now who said "Racism is evil"? Go ahead and take a guess. Nope, your wrong. It was Trump. He has condemned white supremacists. Your characterization of him seems a bit heavy handed and misleading. Is it because he claims he's a Republican? What was it you claimed Republicans do....oh its on the tip of my tongue... "evil". I think that's the word you used. Let me look up a few lines and re-read it ... "all the evil Republicans are doing"... yep "evil" was the word you used. I guess anyone not doing what you want is ... what is your word again.... "evil". Can you see your own hypocrisy here?

If by demonizing you mean that I think some things are immoral and call them so, then "yes" I proudly demonize. I believe it is morally wrong to discriminate against someone because of his or her skin color. I think we have a moral obligation to speak out against this injustice; even the kind of racial injustice that the DNC supports.

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#9994 Posted by Cable_Extreme (15080 posts) - - Show Bio

@lunacyde said:

@just_sayin: I just said I'm not a Democrat, so I don't know why you're bringing this up. I also never stated that Democrats were any better than Republicans when it comes to sexual impropriety.Two wrongs don't make a right. I thought I made it pretty clear, any dirt bag who commits sexually predatory behavior is repulsive. Any public official who has done so should step down immediately.

This is a strawman by the way. How you get from saying it's a false accusation to pointing your finger and saying "well they do it too" is beyond me. I appreciate the admission of guilt though.

I bring this up because of your "All Democrats, All Republicans" line. The point I made earlier is that many Republicans have condemned Roy Moore or at least said that if he is guilty he should step down. Where is this on the Democrat side? Right now Democrat Bob Menendez is on trial for bribery. Allegations of paying under age prostitutes in another country have been made by the FBI against Bob Menendez. Yet, to my knowledge, not a single congressional Democrat or member of the DNC has even said that if he is found guilty he should step down. In fact when asked they refused to do so. There is a clear double standard there.

For the record, I'm not saying "they did it too". Most Republicans have said that Moore should step aside. Even those who are unsure of his guilty have said that if he is guilty he should step down. That's not how Democrats have handled their scandal. Not a one has said that Menendez, even if found guilty, should step down. That's not "they did it too", but "they did it by themselves."

Nailed it

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#9995 Posted by just_sayin (1525 posts) - - Show Bio

@just_sayin said:

some in Alabama are more likely to vote for Moore since the allegations is because of the low character of the media. People don't trust them. They have lost all credibility and when people hear of surprise allegations this close to the election they assume the media is lying again. And who could blame them?

A lot of people have been brainwashed into believing the whole "lying media" thing because people like you keep repeating it, and Trump keeps pushing this false and divisive narrative.

Yes there's a lot of really garbage and false media out there, but guess where much of it is? A lot of it is on the conservative side, and their constant attacks on the free media is what has caused this general distrust of the media on the right. I have watched Fox News, Breitbart, and Infowars do it for years, same for conservative radio. So, yeah, there's a lot of false media out there... like the right wing media that kept pushing the Pizza Gate stuff until one of their gun nuts went and shot up a restaurant because he was convinced that Hillary Clinton and the Democrats had some child prostitution ring in the basement. This is what happens when you push the "all Democrats are evil" and "the media is lying" b.s. that you keep spewing.

I think some in the media go looking for the worst when it comes to Trump. As the Washington Post said of their own photographer's shot was "revenge" against Trump. His photo went viral.

No Caption Provided

However, a view of the full video shows that Trump was laughing and good natured about the 6 ft 4 in man cross shaking two shorter leaders hands.

Loading Video...

Some tried to make it out to be the greatest mistake ever and showed how "stupid" Trump was. That's why people think the media are biased.

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#9996 Posted by CyborgZod (622 posts) - - Show Bio

@just_sayin: So Democrats are racist because they vote for laws to help low-income minorities get into college, but Republicans who make laws to disinfranchise and suppress the vote of minorities for their own political gain are not? such hypocrisy. Republicans have been found gulty in court of passing racist laws that's a fact. They even admitted ubder oath that their excuses for voter ID laws we're false and there were in fact no instances of in person voter fraud. Republicans regularly gerrymander districts to screw over minorities. They're entire strategy for winning elections is about suppressing voter turnout and even lying to people about the dates of elections.

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#9997 Posted by Doofasa (767 posts) - - Show Bio

@just_sayin: Here's a great idea, try and defend Trump without bringing up democrats. Your endless "but they did bad stuff too so Trump's great" narrative excuses none of his behavior .

Trump has on tape bragged about sexually assaulting women and has been accused of raping a minor, to which there was a witness. Now let's see if you can defend his actions.

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#9998 Posted by Cable_Extreme (15080 posts) - - Show Bio

@doofasa said:

@just_sayin: Here's a great idea, try and defend Trump without bringing up democrats. Your endless "but they did bad stuff too so Trump's great" narrative excuses none of his behavior .

Trump has on tape bragged about sexually assaulting women and has been accused of raping a minor, to which there was a witness. Now let's see if you can defend his actions.

Flawed questions as it assumes he did rape a minor. There is no need to defend an unsubstantiated claim.

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#9999 Posted by willpayton (20135 posts) - - Show Bio

Now who said "Racism is evil"? Go ahead and take a guess. Nope, your wrong. It was Trump. He has condemned white supremacists. Your characterization of him seems a bit heavy handed and misleading. Is it because he claims he's a Republican? What was it you claimed Republicans do....oh its on the tip of my tongue... "evil". I think that's the word you used. Let me look up a few lines and re-read it ... "all the evil Republicans are doing"... yep "evil" was the word you used. I guess anyone not doing what you want is ... what is your word again.... "evil". Can you see your own hypocrisy here?

My "characterization of Trump" is based on his own actions and words. I know you've pretty much ignored everything in this entire thread, but here's some highlights that you will likely again ignore:

Trump refused to rent to blacks in his buildings

Trump continued to refuse to rent to blacks 3 years after the Justice Department ruled against him

Trump would order blacks out of the casino floor when he and wife arrived

Trump kept a book of Hitler's speeches by his bed

Trump re-tweeted comments from racist "WhiteGenocydeTM" account... multiple times

Trump tweets anti-Semitic image of Hillary on background of money and with a Jewish star, which he got from a white supremacist site

Trump picks white supremacist as delegate

Trump calls for a ban on all Muslims entering the country

Trump makes racist attack on judge with Mexican heritage, and even Paul Ryan calls it "the definition of a racist comment"

Trump allegedly said "laziness is a trait in blacks" (among other things) to his Trump Plaza Casino COO

Trump said that Mexican immigrants coming here are "rapists" and "criminals" and "some, I assume, are good people". Yeah, but mostly criminals and rapists

Trump was one of the first big pushers of the racist "Birther" movement against President Obama

Trump was wholeheartedly backed and supported by the KKK, they clearly knew exactly what he was

And that's just the start. I can post 100 most links showing his support for war crimes, his constant lying, his total incompetence, and his constant divisiveness and demonizing of anything he doesnt like or agree with. I can also post letters signed by hundreds of top people, most in his own party, saying how Trump would be a total train wreck if elected. They have now been proven right.

Go ahead, make excuses for all of the above.

If by demonizing you mean that I think some things are immoral and call them so, then "yes" I proudly demonize.

No, by "demonizing" I mean you saying that all Democrats are evil... something you're done now several times and continue to do at every occasion.

I believe it is morally wrong to discriminate against someone because of his or her skin color.

If you actually did, then you wouldnt be making excuses and apologizing for Trump all the time. The fact that you're here as an apologist for someone who's a known racist and who's entire career shows him either discriminating against blacks in his businesses, or pushing racist attacks on Obama, or attacks on people based on their religion, or ethnicity... this reveals a lot about you.

I think we have a moral obligation to speak out against this injustice; even the kind of racial injustice that the DNC supports.

But you're ok with the injustices and criminalities of the Republican Party and of Trump. Your hypocrisy is beyond words dude.

The Republicans constantly pass laws to keep anyone who they dont like form voting, from Democrats, to the elderly, to students, to blacks and hispanics. This is not my opinion, it's a fact:

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudence/2017/08/an_era_of_racist_voter_id_laws_in_texas_may_be_coming_to_an_end.html

https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2016/08/03/courts-are-finally-pointing-out-the-racism-behind-voter-id-laws/?utm_term=.02af6c695c0b

And they've perfected gerrymandering in order to steal elections and disenfranchise voters:

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/how-republicans-rig-the-game-20131111

So it's no wonder that we now have a President who most people dont want and lost the popular vote by 3 MILLION votes. In the 2014 Congressional elections, Democrats won 50.6% of the vote, but because of Republicans gerrymandering the districts they only got 46% of the seats. The Republican Party is now a party that relies on democracy being broken to stay in power. And, everything they can do to further weaken and break our democracy, they do it.

https://www.thenation.com/article/gerrymandering-rigged-2014-elections-republican-advantage/

This is the party you continue to defend, a party who has made it it's mission to rig and distort the system in order to gain power, while screwing minorities and pretty much anyone who doesnt agree with them. In fact, they're proud that they pass laws that keep people from voting:

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Yeah, your "moral obligation" seems real legit.

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#10000 Edited by just_sayin (1525 posts) - - Show Bio

@just_sayin: So Democrats are racist because they vote for laws to help low-income minorities get into college, but Republicans who make laws to disinfranchise and suppress the vote of minorities for their own political gain are not? such hypocrisy. Republicans have been found gulty in court of passing racist laws that's a fact. They even admitted ubder oath that their excuses for voter ID laws we're false and there were in fact no instances of in person voter fraud. Republicans regularly gerrymander districts to screw over minorities. They're entire strategy for winning elections is about suppressing voter turnout and even lying to people about the dates of elections.

Yes Democrats are racist if they support racist policies that discriminate against someone because of his or her ethnicity. It is morally wrong to penalize a poor Appalachian kid who is applying to college who has higher grades and SAT by giving the spot he or she earned to a rich African American with poor grades and SAT scores. And you know what, it would be morally wrong to penalize a rich white kid too, just because he or she is white.

Don't talk to me about gerrymandering. I lived in North Carolina in the 90's next to one of the most gerrymandered districts in the history of gerrymandered districts and guess who did the gerrymandering? Democrats. Yep, the Democrats gerrymandered the mother of all gerrymandered districts.

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I can't speak to all Republicans but I believe our elections should be fair and that only citizens should vote. I don't care where the non-citizens came from, if they aren't qualified to vote legally, they should not be voting. The fact that Democratic leadership have been caught on tape orchestrating voter fraud really undercuts your argument, dude.